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Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring

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Speaker 1: conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment.

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Speaker 1: I'm Shirley Halperin, Executive editor of Music, and my guest

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Speaker 1: today is Kara Diaguardi, Grammy nominated songwriter, producer, music publisher,

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Speaker 1: former artist, scholar, advocate for Creators, two season American Idol judge, mom,

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Speaker 1: wife and daughter. She's a seasoned talent scout too, with

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Speaker 1: an impressive track record of having identified and invested in

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Speaker 1: hit songs. Early on That the letters A and R

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Speaker 1: sit side by side in Kara's name may be a coincidence,

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Speaker 1: but it's a fortuitous one, since it's what she does best.

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Speaker 1: She can hear something and see its future. Today, her company,

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Speaker 1: art House Entertainment has equity and hits ranging from artists

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Speaker 1: like Bruno Mars, Carrie Underwood, Jason Derulo, Rihanna, Maroon Five,

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Speaker 1: Justin Bieber Palsy, and Florida Georgia Line, among many others.

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Speaker 1: In fact, as this podcast airs, art House and Atlantic

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Speaker 1: Records artist Gayle has just hit number one on pop

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Speaker 1: radio for her inescapable hit A B C D E

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Speaker 1: f U, a song that Kara helped workshop for over

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Speaker 1: two years. Kara has written a few smashes herself. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you've heard of Rich Girl by Gwen Stefani, or Ain't

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Speaker 1: No Other Man by Christina Guilera or Sober by Ping.

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Speaker 1: According to art House, Kara's songs have appeared on albums

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Speaker 1: totaling one D sixty million in sales. After winning accolades

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Speaker 1: for her work as a creative, Kara dio Guardi's career

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Speaker 1: took a turn in two thousand nine when she was

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Speaker 1: hired to be a judge on American Idol alongside original

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Speaker 1: TV trio Simon Cowell, Randy Jackson and Paula Appt Then

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Speaker 1: on Fox, it was a ratings monster, but was starting

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Speaker 1: to show some growing pains, and Kara, not knowing much

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Speaker 1: about the show, admittedly stepped onto a stage she wasn't

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Speaker 1: entirely prepared for, even if she did strut across it

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Speaker 1: in a bikini, live with twenty million people watching. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand ten, she talks about these experiences, as well

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Speaker 1: as being a woman and an entrepreneur in a male

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Speaker 1: dominated field, her advocacy for songwriters and her nonprofit Inspired Nation,

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Speaker 1: which hosts singing competitions benefiting youth focused charities, not unlike

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Speaker 1: where Kara discovered Gail. She also discusses her views on

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Speaker 1: the relationship between technology and music creation, which she's tackling

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Speaker 1: head on in a new app called Bridge, which connects

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Speaker 1: creators to create collaborators. Welcome to Strictly Business. Here's our

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Speaker 1: talk with Kara do a Quarty. You did have aspirations

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Speaker 1: of becoming an artist, right, like, uh, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not like you grew up saying I want to be

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Speaker 1: a songwriter. You wanted to be an artist? Correct, Well,

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Speaker 1: I grew up kind of renouncing that I was creative

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Speaker 1: or could sing because I felt pressure from my my dad,

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Speaker 1: mostly to perform at moments when I really didn't want

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Speaker 1: to perform. I just wanted to like eat dinner and

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Speaker 1: not be you know, hey, you get up and sing

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Speaker 1: the national anthem, I'd be like, what what you freaking out?

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Speaker 1: Because I think, you know, early on I was I

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Speaker 1: was trying to be what every kid is trying to be,

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Speaker 1: make their parents proud, and be be perfect, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and really those are very unattainable goals and I feel

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Speaker 1: like I could never do it the right way or

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Speaker 1: I was so harsh on myself when I said that

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Speaker 1: it was very unenjoyable, and so I sort of pronounced

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Speaker 1: it and was like, you know what, I don't need

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Speaker 1: to sing, I don't need to do this. I don't

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Speaker 1: want anyone to control me. I'm done with that. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna be like everybody else. I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: to a good school. I'll be a lawyer, and that's that.

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Speaker 1: But I got pretty sick in my Uh it's a

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Speaker 1: sophomore year of college where I was starting to get depressed,

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Speaker 1: and really I started realizing that I couldn't take on

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Speaker 1: the path that I was on. It just it didn't

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Speaker 1: feel authentic, and I just decided it was probably my

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Speaker 1: third year a duke. I was like, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be an artist. Um, I had no idea what that meant.

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Speaker 1: But I graduated college and I was like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be in a garage band. My parents and who

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Speaker 1: were not thrilled with that, and yeah, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: and just like started doing it, you know, growing out

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Speaker 1: there gigging and a friend of mine you can get

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Speaker 1: a job or or got a job at Billboard and

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Speaker 1: didn't want it and passed it on to me, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, this is great, So

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Speaker 1: get my parents kind of off my ass and I

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Speaker 1: can be in the music business in terms of like

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Speaker 1: learning and understanding it. So it was perfect in a

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Speaker 1: weird way. It felt like divine intervention or something. So

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Speaker 1: how did you develop as a songwriter? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: one of the main things that happened was I realized

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Speaker 1: early on that no one was going to give me

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Speaker 1: their songs, like professional songwriters were not going to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's the perfect person to give my songs to. She

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Speaker 1: lives with her mother and father, she's kind of fifteen

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Speaker 1: pounds overweight, her hair is horrible, but yeah, let me

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Speaker 1: give her my song. She'll probably get a deal. So

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Speaker 1: I was kind of like, suck it. I just got

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Speaker 1: to write my own songs. And I just started writing

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Speaker 1: songs and they were awful. They were so bad I

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Speaker 1: can't even tell you about they were. But I kept

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Speaker 1: doing it, you know, and I started to open up

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Speaker 1: more and more on my music and talking more about

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Speaker 1: what I felt as opposed to what I thought everyone

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Speaker 1: else felt. And I finally got to a place where

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Speaker 1: I put together a demo and walked over to my

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Speaker 1: neighbor Larry Flick at Billboard and was like, Hey, I

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Speaker 1: have a friend and I'm kind of wondering what you

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Speaker 1: think of her. So he was like, girl, let me

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Speaker 1: hear that tape. And so, you know, every day I'd

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Speaker 1: have to go by him. I was like kind of

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Speaker 1: scared because I thought he was going to say all

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Speaker 1: your friend socks or that was the worst tape ever.

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Speaker 1: But he found me one day and he's like, I

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Speaker 1: really liked these songs. Who's your friend? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's me in my easy spirit pumps and my you know,

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Speaker 1: really bad hair. And he's like, shut up, girl, this

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Speaker 1: is not you. And I'm like, I promise you it's me.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, oh my god. And so then he

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Speaker 1: introduced me to this publisher at BMG, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was a scrappy person. I was like, whatever, if

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Speaker 1: this guy wants me to write with this person, I'll

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Speaker 1: go right with them. And anything you could throw my

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Speaker 1: way I would do. I was just open to anything,

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Speaker 1: and that really served me as a songwriter because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people look at credits, you know,

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Speaker 1: what did this person to do or what did that

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Speaker 1: person do? And I'm not writing with them because they

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Speaker 1: haven't done anything. And I don't think that's the way

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Speaker 1: to do it. I think that you can have chemistry

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Speaker 1: with someone and together you write this great thing. So

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Speaker 1: I I really I've always been um sort of adventurous

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Speaker 1: in my co writing. You know, if someone could find me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I'll write with you, let's try it.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's actually worked out a lot for me

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Speaker 1: where it was somebody who really wasn't very known or

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Speaker 1: someone who was starting out, and you know, just kind

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Speaker 1: of approaching it with that wonder in that sense of

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Speaker 1: fun was something actually some of the best co writs

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Speaker 1: I ever I ever had, so smart, because then you

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Speaker 1: you're developing all these relationships and these tentacles are going out,

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Speaker 1: but you're the sort of like you know, you're the

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Speaker 1: You're the big get for them. Probably they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be writing with Karen de Guardy and then

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Speaker 1: it actually ends up expanding your network. I think I

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Speaker 1: looked at it differently. I feel like I never really

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Speaker 1: believed the hype for me. I always kind of saw

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Speaker 1: the magic in it that it was just how ridiculous

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Speaker 1: that you could get in the room with somebody who

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Speaker 1: you've never met and create something. And for me, it

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Speaker 1: was more about the work and the hustle and making

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Speaker 1: things happen, and you know, not being like, well they're

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Speaker 1: they're they're getting in the room with me. Like to me,

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Speaker 1: I was still that insecure song writer who wasn't quite

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Speaker 1: sure how she even did what she did and really

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Speaker 1: believed in her heart she wasn't even the best out there.

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Speaker 1: But it was more the fact that I told my

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Speaker 1: story in a very unique way and I had I

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Speaker 1: had something to say, you know. It was I wasn't

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Speaker 1: always in the best relationship, and my songs talked about

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Speaker 1: standing up for yourself and getting through that and not

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Speaker 1: being a victim, being empowered to to pull yourself out

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Speaker 1: of it, and that really for me has always been

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Speaker 1: I would say, what I've been about is that no

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Speaker 1: matter what's happened in my life, whether it's been you know,

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Speaker 1: good or bad, or I realized that it can all

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Speaker 1: be in my songs, it can all be something that

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Speaker 1: will people will hopefully relate to, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: my kind of life mantras, no matter what gets thrown

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Speaker 1: my way, I believe I can come out of it.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that was a team that ran

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Speaker 1: through a bunch of my songs like you can do

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Speaker 1: me wrong, but I'm going to survive. I've always felt

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Speaker 1: that you have to live your life in order to create,

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Speaker 1: and that if you are all you're doing is in

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Speaker 1: the studio and you know, getting home and sleeping and

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Speaker 1: then going back to the studio, and you don't have

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Speaker 1: a life, it's hard to really create anything that's relevant,

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Speaker 1: that really speaks to um the listeners. You know, some

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Speaker 1: of the greatest songs came out of real experiences, so

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Speaker 1: I can. I find at times that l A can

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Speaker 1: be quite toxic for songwriters because they feel that there's

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Speaker 1: this imaginary clock that's running, and people tend to be like, well,

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Speaker 1: I got on this record, and I got this cut,

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Speaker 1: and I got this and it's it's not the supportive

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Speaker 1: kind of environment that Nashville can be where people are

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Speaker 1: you know, everyone's a songwriter. Everyone understands the hustle, and

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Speaker 1: they sort of also are more supportive of each other

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Speaker 1: in the way that they and it's more like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heard your song. That's awesome. It was such a

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Speaker 1: good song. Like they admire the craft and they admire

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Speaker 1: what it takes to have a big song. And so

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Speaker 1: sometimes with my roster, I feel like I'm telling them

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Speaker 1: stop writing on the weekends, stop doing that, go out

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Speaker 1: and live your life. Do not double book yourself. You're

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Speaker 1: stressing yourself out and you've lost the fun, You've lost

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Speaker 1: the joy. You have to go back to the joy

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Speaker 1: and not worry about how many cuts you're getting and

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Speaker 1: what everybody else is doing. You know, and don't go

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Speaker 1: in the room and and and lose your voice because

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Speaker 1: you believe that, you know you're supposed to be doing

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Speaker 1: it this way if you're going to get it cut.

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Speaker 1: So I really feel sometimes that I'm sort of telling

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Speaker 1: my writers, like, you got to go back to when

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Speaker 1: you were first writing in your bedroom. Go back to

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Speaker 1: that moment when when you would come home from a

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Speaker 1: day at school and be like, you know, that girl

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Speaker 1: broke my heart. And you learned all this from experience yourself.

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Speaker 1: I assume, right, I learned it all from that. I

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Speaker 1: learned it all from self discovery too, because I think

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Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of self discovery that has to

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Speaker 1: happen for you to be a good songwriter. You have

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Speaker 1: to really understand what you're feeling and why and it's

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Speaker 1: your job to feel deeply. I think Gails are a

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Speaker 1: really good example of it because her song that A

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Speaker 1: B C D E F You was based on a

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Speaker 1: real experience, and I think why it's resonated with people

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Speaker 1: as though there's a craft part in it. It's like

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Speaker 1: everyone's wanted to tell their boyfriend or girlfriend at some time,

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Speaker 1: you know what, fuck you? You know, everyone put your

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Speaker 1: dog and funk off that you ever introduced me to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I don't want to see your best friend.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see your the car that you

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Speaker 1: drive around that you know, I don't want to see

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Speaker 1: any of your sister. Yeah, I'm done with you all

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Speaker 1: everyone but the dog, Like I always loved your dog

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to steal them. But yeah, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you said about art House, when did our House start?

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Speaker 1: Was A two thousand two? Was like, yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: like twenty years ago and it started. Can I tell

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Speaker 1: you what we started on, which is you're going to

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Speaker 1: be like, what what the heck? Um? So it was

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Speaker 1: sort of art House started because I needed, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was it was administering my own like music and copyrights,

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Speaker 1: and then my partner Stephen Finfer was like, hey, we

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Speaker 1: could buy a piece of this this Britney Spears copyright.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, what's that And Taylor's like,

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Speaker 1: all right, for this amount of money, we can buy

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Speaker 1: this piece of Britney Spears cut and then we'll own it,

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Speaker 1: we'll publish it and uh. And it was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it was forty or fifty, I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember what it was. And so we kind of

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Speaker 1: were about, you know, Stephen was helping me in my

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Speaker 1: own career, you know, managing me, and then we had

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Speaker 1: art House. And then then when art House really took

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Speaker 1: off as something more than just about me was when

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Speaker 1: I was not getting credit in the room with a

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Speaker 1: lot of producers that I was working with, where I

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Speaker 1: was you know, writing the song, all the lyrics, all

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Speaker 1: the melodies to mostly everything. Sometimes it was tracks. I

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Speaker 1: was laying down the vocals, vocal producing the artist, and

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Speaker 1: they were making you know, forty or fifty grand a

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Speaker 1: track all the points plus getting um the song that

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Speaker 1: I usually pitched and got cut, and I was sort

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Speaker 1: of fed up with it. You know, they didn't want

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Speaker 1: to hear what I had to say. Um. They were like,

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Speaker 1: you're not a producer. You're not this, you're not that.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, you're right. You know what,

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Speaker 1: there's so many talented people out there. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: find them and I'm going to go get our songs cut.

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Speaker 1: I'll write songs with them, and then they'll co produce

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Speaker 1: with me, and not only will they get like higher

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Speaker 1: profile artists, but they'll actually become you know, well known

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Speaker 1: producers overnight. And that's exactly what I did. Um whether

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Speaker 1: it was Mitch Allen or Greg Wells or you know

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people. And they were awesome. They were

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Speaker 1: more talented at times than some of the producers that

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Speaker 1: were out there that were known, and they were happy

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Speaker 1: to do this together. And then the best part of

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Speaker 1: it was they didn't have to just work with me.

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Speaker 1: I wanted them to work with other people. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to just work with them. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: free to write with whoever I felt creative with. And

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Speaker 1: that's something that's always sort of been frustrating to me

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Speaker 1: with some of these you know, boutique operations, is they

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Speaker 1: tend to only want their writers to write with their writers.

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Speaker 1: But what happens when that's not a creative moment for

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Speaker 1: those people, like they have to be free to do

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Speaker 1: what they need to do. Um, And it can't just

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Speaker 1: be about oh, I just want to hold onto the copyright.

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Speaker 1: It was an opportunity for me to really champion talent

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Speaker 1: out there um and that became our next sort of

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Speaker 1: version of art House, and then later it was about

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Speaker 1: just signing people that had nothing to do with me

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Speaker 1: writing like we do now because I don't write songs

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Speaker 1: right right, So at art House we're talking about songs

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Speaker 1: like Bruno Mars just the Way you Are in Grenade,

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Speaker 1: uh CeeLo Green's Forget You, Dummi, Levada's Heart Attack, Jason

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Speaker 1: Derula want to Want Me, and Halsey's Graveyard just a few.

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Speaker 1: So art House has pieces of all of these songs

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Speaker 1: because of writers that art House represents correct, right, So,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the last version of us is signing

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Speaker 1: more on the artist side, and you know Ingrid andress

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Speaker 1: or Um, John Bellian, who's you know, just an incredible

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Speaker 1: These are incredible creatives that I have been with for

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Speaker 1: you know, a number of years, and really they didn't

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Speaker 1: I didn't write with them. They were I didn't sign

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Speaker 1: them to be like, oh, let me get on your

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Speaker 1: songs now, you know, it was more like you're amazing.

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Speaker 1: I I wish I could turn a phrase like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really drawn to people who I feel are

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Speaker 1: just so incredible at what they do and that as

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Speaker 1: a creator, I'm in all of them. Okay, So that's

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Speaker 1: the evolution of art house. Is it a publishing house?

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Speaker 1: Is it a record label? Like? What? Is it just

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Speaker 1: like a music company? How would you describe it to

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Speaker 1: someone who who's not familiar with like the ins and

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Speaker 1: outs of music. I would say it's been It's been

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Speaker 1: different things over the years, and we've tried to change

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Speaker 1: with the business, but in a way that felt very

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Speaker 1: natural for us and organic. And I think when I

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Speaker 1: started teaching at Berkeley, I started to really fall in

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Speaker 1: love with young talent um and people who who really

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Speaker 1: hadn't made that crossover into the industry and that we're

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Speaker 1: needing help. And some of them, like Ingrid, turned out

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Speaker 1: to be, you know, just great artists. And I think

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Speaker 1: that I did whatever I had to do to help

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Speaker 1: them do what their vision for themselves were. So I

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Speaker 1: naturally was like, oh, okay, you're an artist, how are

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Speaker 1: we going to have How is this going to happen?

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Speaker 1: How are we going to make this happen? So a

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Speaker 1: large part of it was like if I owned the publishing,

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Speaker 1: you know, in order to spend money on videos and

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Speaker 1: putting out masters and things like that, that wasn't part

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Speaker 1: of a publishing deal. That was another you know, financial arrangement.

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Speaker 1: So part of it was to be able to recoup

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Speaker 1: the additional moneys that I put out to help them,

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Speaker 1: you know, be artists. And then you know, when I

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Speaker 1: when I met Gail, it was you know, she was

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Speaker 1: she was young and just incredibly talented and wanted the

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Speaker 1: artist thing was was just obvious. So I think we

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Speaker 1: even had that in her. Her initial deal was to

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Speaker 1: develop her as that. So it really came out of

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Speaker 1: out of the inn organic place of really taking each

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Speaker 1: creator and looking at them and saying, you know, what

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Speaker 1: do you want to do? How can we help you?

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Speaker 1: How can we get you to where you want to go?

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Speaker 1: And and maybe you don't even know where you want

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Speaker 1: to go right now, and that's okay, we'll address that

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Speaker 1: along the way. You're very busy in the two thousand's,

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Speaker 1: very very busy, including including capping off the decade with

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Speaker 1: two seasons on American Idol seasons eight nine. You also

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Speaker 1: did a reality show called Platinum Hit, which was sort

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Speaker 1: of like a predecessor to to song Land, right Kara Um.

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Speaker 1: It was all about like how to to write a

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Speaker 1: platinum hit a song and smashed song. So what did

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Speaker 1: you take away from those experiences of being on television.

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Speaker 1: I really had no understanding of television when I joined

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Speaker 1: American Idol, and I hadn't really watched the show that

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Speaker 1: much because my whole life felt like American Idol. That's

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Speaker 1: all I did was listen to people singing in songs,

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Speaker 1: and I really didn't know what I was getting into.

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Speaker 1: I was probably quite naive and UM just sort of

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Speaker 1: going with the flow on it. And I quickly realized, Okay,

347
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Speaker 1: I just walked into this political landmine, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the sort of crazy world of um personalities and production houses,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I I was a creator, man. I

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Speaker 1: just took my feelings into the studio and wrote about them.

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Speaker 1: It was like very pure. Um. I was not a

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Speaker 1: chess player or somebody who was into strategy of getting

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Speaker 1: ahead or you know, anything like that in that way.

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Speaker 1: So I think that I was kind of put on

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Speaker 1: the show as the first, you know, moment of change, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna put this girl in. She's from the industry,

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Speaker 1: she's not a celebrity, so we probably won't have, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of problems with she won't be a diva.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's just like a songwriter. And so, you know,

360
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Speaker 1: I just tried to do what I was asked to do.

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Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know much about being a character.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know much about like one liners. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was wordy, I was for both. I was like

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Speaker 1: an Italian girl, like we just speak a lot. So

365
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Speaker 1: it was a lot coming at me um very quickly.

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Speaker 1: But what I did take away from it was one

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Speaker 1: it was an incredible experience of seeing the inside of

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Speaker 1: something that I would never have seen. I got to

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Speaker 1: meet a lot of cool people. I got to really

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Speaker 1: test myself in ways that you know, I'd always been

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Speaker 1: fearful of the stage, and being live was just like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, two days before every show, I was in

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Speaker 1: a state of panic. So it really pushed me and

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Speaker 1: it showed me. You know, there were definitely things that

375
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Speaker 1: I wish had been better at, but like I did it,

376
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Speaker 1: I survived it, and I was better for it because

377
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Speaker 1: it made me a better A and R executive. It

378
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Speaker 1: made me really have to in the moment tell somebody

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Speaker 1: what I liked and what I didn't like. And I

380
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Speaker 1: couldn't hide behind a manager, I couldn't hide behind a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: And I really got to see the effect of of

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Speaker 1: that on a young person, you know. Um it also

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Speaker 1: made me very angry at times that I couldn't really

384
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Speaker 1: mentor those kids, that I wasn't allowed to really tell

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Speaker 1: them what I thought and how they could improve. It

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Speaker 1: made me angry that a lot of these kids would

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Speaker 1: come through and give their time and their talent only

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Speaker 1: be dropped off at their their jobs again without any

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Speaker 1: further mentoring. And that's why I started an onprofit. We

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Speaker 1: have to give something back to them. And I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: back about that moment when you famously strutted in a

392
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Speaker 1: bikini on American Idol twelve years later, how do you

393
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Speaker 1: view that decision the way I view it is? And

394
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Speaker 1: I did it because they were going to give money

395
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Speaker 1: to my charity. I would never have done it for

396
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Speaker 1: like a moment of hey check out my body, or

397
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Speaker 1: you know, making that girl feel awkward or whatever it was. Um,

398
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Speaker 1: I certainly did not you know, things that I had

399
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Speaker 1: some incredible body and it was going to show it

400
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Speaker 1: on TV. I they had pressured me for so many

401
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 1: weeks leading up to it. It was like, you've got

402
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: to do this, You've got to do this, You've got

403
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: to do this. And part of it was, you know,

404
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: it was a ratings decision, and they felt I needed

405
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: to take myself less seriously. I needed to poke fun

406
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: and you know, Idol was about entertaining and fun, and

407
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Speaker 1: I the only way I could do it was if

408
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Speaker 1: there was something good that came out of it. If

409
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Speaker 1: I could say, you know what, I'm going to do this,

410
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: but then you guys have to do this, because I

411
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: cannot do this if it's just about TV ratings. So

412
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Speaker 1: I you know, it was. I have to say it

413
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Speaker 1: was one of the scariest moments of my life. I

414
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: was so scared the dress wasn't going to open that

415
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: like myself, like I didn't know what was gonna happen. Um.

416
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you know, there was so much.

417
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Speaker 1: How can I say this, I mean, the music industry,

418
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: the me too. For music, I don't even think we've

419
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: touched upon that as an industry. I mean when I

420
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: was coming up, there wasn't a woman around anywhere to

421
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: be seen. There was um Diane Warren, who was you know,

422
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: maybe ten years ahead of me and was iconic, and

423
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Speaker 1: Linda Perry. I had no access to them. I was

424
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Speaker 1: always in the studio with men, and I have you know,

425
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: horror stories about some of those things that happened. It

426
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: was never It was never easy. I felt like I

427
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Speaker 1: had to make the decision of if I report this

428
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: or do something, then I'm going to lose this moment

429
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: in my life, in my career that that is important

430
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: to me. I want to show people I have something

431
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: to say. I want to show people that my music counts.

432
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: And in that moment of of the the idle thing,

433
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 1: it was sort of I knew that I had I

434
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: had to listen to what they were asking me to do,

435
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: but ultimately it was my decision. So I can't be

436
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: like just saying, oh, I blame them for doing this,

437
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: but I had to kind of justify it in my

438
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: own head. And I was like, all right, as long

439
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: as you're giving money to a charity, i'll do it.

440
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: But you better say you're giving the money to the

441
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: charity too, because I don't want people to think that I,

442
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, would go out there and just show my

443
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: body because you know, you guys asked me to, or

444
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: I feel like this would be a great moment because

445
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great personal moment. You know, it's not

446
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: what I'd stand for in life. We need to take

447
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be back with more from

448
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: Kara de aguardim And we're back with Kara de Aguardi.

449
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: So in January, it was announced that Simon Fuller has

450
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: formed the first ever TikTok group, and I was remembering

451
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: that when Idol first launched, it was criticized as being

452
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: a shortcut in the music industry as opposed to like

453
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: the paying of dudes that most new artists go through.

454
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: TikTok literally seemed like a fraction of that time. You know,

455
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: Like what took you a season to develop now is

456
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: like like TikTok, it's a matter of seconds. Um, How

457
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: is artist development viewed today in light of these, you know,

458
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: platforms that can instantly elevate somebody. I think there's a

459
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: real opportunity for people who really knew how to develop town.

460
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: For me, my I am so contrariant at times to

461
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: what people are doing, like they're looking at metrics. I'm

462
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: never looking at metrics. I'm looking at true talent in

463
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: the sense that someone has something to say, they are

464
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: adamant about saying it, and also have an incredible voice

465
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: or complain instrument really well. And it's just this package.

466
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for these people to help. They just

467
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: don't know how to get there. They don't completely see

468
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: their vision in front of them, but it's there, and

469
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: I know how to pull it out of them or

470
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: help pull it out of them, because it's like boot

471
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: camp for an artist. So I think that when you

472
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: just are looking at TikTok and these platforms as an industry,

473
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: you're going after people when they're recognized, right, but you

474
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: don't know what's underneath. You don't know the foundation, you

475
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: don't know the songs, you don't know how they write,

476
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: you don't know anything about them. So now you're in

477
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: this frenzy where you're trying to sign them with every

478
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: single other label and you're having to tell them that

479
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: you love everything about them and they're amazing and they're

480
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: this and they're that, and then you sign the deal

481
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: and then it's like, Okay, what do we have, you know,

482
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: because at that moment, you couldn't be like, hey, let

483
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: me see your perform, let me see what are your

484
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: other songs. Oh, these songs are not so great. We'll

485
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: worry about this later. We'll just signed, get the get

486
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: the deal signed. Then we'll put them out with every

487
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: every person we know, we'll get an album together. And

488
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: to me, that's not the way to do it. TikTok

489
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: can be used as part of the strategy for developing

490
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: an artist. So what you say to your artist is, Okay,

491
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm loving these songs. Want to go put them on TikTok,

492
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: play them, see what people think about them. But at

493
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: the same time, go out perform. Let's do some videos,

494
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: Let's do some photos. Let's do all this while we're developing,

495
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: so we know what ifs, what it's like to do

496
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: a video, what it's like to do photos professionally, what

497
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: it's like to do an interview with somebody, and um

498
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: at At the same time you're developing their music, you're

499
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: helping them pull out what they want to say, making

500
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: it more concise, making it more interesting, all of these things.

501
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: So when they have their moment on TikTok, like Gayl.

502
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: They're unstoppable, They've got songs for days, they know how

503
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: to perform, they're amazing in front of the camera, and

504
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: it's like, here we go. That's artist development. Signing based

505
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: on metrics is just competing with everybody else who's out there,

506
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: and the dust isn't going to settle till after the

507
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: deal is closed and you don't even know what you signed,

508
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: and then you've got to compete with Taylor Swift and

509
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: Ed Sharon. You're not competing with TikTok anymore. You're competing

510
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: with with you know, you've got to get on radio.

511
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: So I find it to be you know who's doing that.

512
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so proud of Gale in this moment,

513
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: because she worked her butt off to get to where

514
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: she is. She was not an overnight moment. She was

515
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: not a plant. She's been working for three years, since

516
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: she was fourteen, since I met her. She worked harder

517
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: than anyone I know, sessions, double sessions, uh COVID in

518
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: her bedroom with her best friend, writing songs, performing, doing videos, photos.

519
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: So when I hear this thing about her being a plant,

520
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: it's like, oh no, she was so far from a

521
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: plant and they were saying something on TikTok or that,

522
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just like, oh, no, she's

523
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: not an industry plant. She is, you know, in terms

524
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: of Gail, TikTok was something that was so important in

525
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: breaking her. But she's much more than a TikTok artist.

526
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: She's had songs lined up that you know could be

527
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: released now for months. So tell me what you saw

528
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: in her at fourteen. Well, she stood up and she

529
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: sang a few lines, and I was so confused because

530
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: umber one, she was like so tall, and I think

531
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: I was on the floor and I'm looking up at

532
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: her and she's so intense and she's singing and she's

533
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: so emotional in her and the way she sings and

534
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: the way she moves, and I was just like, what

535
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: is going on? Who is this? So I was really like, oh,

536
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I gotta I gotta make sure this

537
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: girl really wants it. She says she wants it, but

538
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. So two weeks later I called her

539
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: up and I said, you know, I'm doing a writing camp.

540
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: Why don't you come down and I'm gonna put you

541
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: in some sessions. And so she was very well spoken,

542
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: very put together and very serious about this. So I

543
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: put her in the room. I think it was Jimmy Robbins,

544
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: like somebody, you know, some crazy talented person. She said

545
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: later she was freaking out, but she didn't. She had

546
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 1: poker face. She's like, okay, and I'm like, look at

547
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: this girl, fourteen, unbelievable. So I just kept testing her

548
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: and testing her, and she just looked at me all right,

549
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: like a gamer, you know, like I'm going here I go.

550
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: And I was like, this girl's credible. I mean, the

551
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: way she holds herself, the level of talent, the level

552
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: of professionalism. I was like, I gotta work with this girl.

553
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: And that's basically what happened is I just could not

554
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: believe the talent. And but we spent a lot of

555
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: time talking about what she wanted to say. And her

556
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,239
Speaker 1: mother is amazing thing, and her mother really raised her

557
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: child to be exactly you know who she is. Like

558
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: if she wanted to do certain things, her mom didn't

559
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: shut it down. She sort of listened to her and

560
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I've got this kind of wild

561
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: spirit here, and how am I going to raise her?

562
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: Am I going to tell her not to do certain things?

563
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: Or am I gonna give her the tools to do

564
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: them safely, and you know, and we spoke a lot

565
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: about you know, sex was a big thing with her

566
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: and sexuality, and it was funny because I was raised

567
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic, so there were times she would say things

568
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: and you know, I was like, wow, okay, but I

569
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: am so much more evolved for my roots, you know,

570
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: And and I want people to express what they feel.

571
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 1: I never want to censor it, um, but there there

572
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: are times that maybe I've had to have a conversation

573
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: with her like are you sure you want to say that?

574
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Or you know? And I ultimately want her to say

575
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: what she wants to say. But I think allowing her

576
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: to tell her truth the way she wanted to say it,

577
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: and not being like, no, you can't say that, or no,

578
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: you know because I think other people had in the past,

579
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: and just giving her that freedom to be the wild

580
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: kind of stallion she is. It's been amazing to watch

581
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: her develop. It really is. And that song um ABC

582
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: T E F you it is just so hooky. I

583
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: got the sense in talking to Gail that a lot

584
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: of work went into retuning and refining that song um,

585
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: reworking it two different formats of tell me about that, Like,

586
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: is that kind of like your work shopping a song

587
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: basically so that it's perfect. I don't think I have

588
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: ever spent more time trying to get a production right

589
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: or a thing right. I mean, my kid learned how

590
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: to curse. He's been hearing that song for two years.

591
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: He was like, fuck you and like, no, I guess,

592
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean I couldn't. It was just playing all the time.

593
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: All happened the way it was supposed to happen because

594
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: it took a while, but she also needed that time

595
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: to continue to grow and develop. And you know, she

596
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: wrote the song when she was fifteen. Were their best

597
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: friend Sarah Davis? And what a great story. These two

598
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: meet at a industry event. They're both songwriters, they you know,

599
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: they get to be friends and then they write this

600
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: amazing song based on just their experiences and because they

601
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: have this deep friendship and they know how to communicate

602
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: with each other and they know each other, and that's

603
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: the way it should be. If those two hadn't met

604
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: at an n s AI event, you know that song, Mm,

605
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: they just met and there you go, how cool is that?

606
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: I mean? When it's just amazing and I also think

607
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: because I signed things so organically, Like I loved Sarah Davis.

608
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: I thought she was amazing. With Gail, I never tried

609
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: to break the up. Let me put you with someone else.

610
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: Hold on, let me get you with this guy over here.

611
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: He's had five big records. It's like, no, Sarah, you

612
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: are awesome together. You need to continue to write. And

613
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: she was signed a while ago. Right, it's not on

614
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: the it's not on the heels of the success of

615
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: this song. No, she was being developed and we were

616
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: developing her. So it was independent first and then this

617
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: was her her release. So the whole idea was to

618
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: develop her without the pressure of being inside the system,

619
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: where it's like, why's the single, what's it doing? Where's this?

620
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: Where's this? You know? The TikTok Spotify is what's going on?

621
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: You know? It was sort of like, that was a

622
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: very good Julie Green wild impersonation. Oh was that? I

623
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: don't you know? What's so funny? I really know because Julie, like,

624
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm kind of in awe of Julie. I just started

625
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: to really know her. Well. Listen, the music industry is tough.

626
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: It has changed so much, and and and we we

627
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: as an industry have allowed technology to dictate the way

628
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: we sign and the way we do business. And you know,

629
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: I have compassion for for a lot of people on

630
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: the inside because it's just overnight. You don't know what

631
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: you have to do. And I'm kind of sick of it.

632
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to build Bridge, because I'm like,

633
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: I'm done with technology telling me how to do business.

634
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: So you are saying the technology to find the people

635
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: who should be doing business together exactly, I'm like, you

636
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: know what, I And I'm going to align myself with

637
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: the industry. I'm not going to be you know, speaking

638
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: out and saying we don't do anything with the industry.

639
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: It's like, I want the creators to be noticed, not

640
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: just through TikTok, not just through all those things, but

641
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: what about those kids out there that are just awesome

642
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: but don't have access And and my app is going

643
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: to be able to tell the industry, like, look at

644
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: this guy. A lot of people love him in this community.

645
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: We would never have met him because he lives in Nebraska.

646
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: It's sort of the idle thing, but inside the app

647
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: and it's a safe community where creators can come and

648
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: meet one another. And and get a mentoring session from

649
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, a great songwriter or producer and UM, but

650
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: also get the access they need and to to work

651
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: with one another and possibly be recognized and possibly down

652
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: the line web three, you know, monetizing their work to work.

653
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: So I'm excited about that. I'm in the industry, but

654
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm also creator, so I see both. I've see both

655
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: sides of the street, and I have compassion for both

656
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: sides in the street. I'm just trying to create solutions

657
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: that work for everyone. Well, do you have to have

658
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: like the talk with someone like Gail about how difficult

659
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of gross the industry can be.

660
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: I worry for for her at times, because you know,

661
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: she's a young girl, and I also know that her

662
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: life will not never be the same in the sense

663
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: that you know, people are going to know her, and

664
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: that's not as easy now to go out and do

665
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: what she wants to do. But I have someone who

666
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: I love, Christina Russo, who used to work at art

667
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: House with me. UM has left to go on to

668
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: manage her, and they have such a great relationship and

669
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: Christina is so protective of her, and they're just fantastic

670
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: together and she um, Gail also has a great mom,

671
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 1: she has great friends, and having those people around her

672
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: sort of patting her from some of the crazy. So

673
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: I feel like I can sleep at night because I

674
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: know that she's being protected and that um you know,

675
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: they try to have a Disney movie at the end

676
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: of the day or something, trying to do something normal,

677
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: And I know that she has a great mom and

678
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: great friends around her. So I think that's so important,

679
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: you know. But if if I ever feel like she

680
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: needs a little pep talk, yeah, I'll be there. I

681
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to hear from me, but um,

682
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about your advocacy for songwriters. I

683
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: previously had Dina Lapole on this podcast and we spoke about,

684
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, why the songwriters always seem to get the

685
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: short end of the stick. The DSPs, the Spotify e's

686
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: of the world. It seems like they're nickel and diming

687
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: songwriters constantly. It seems like there's always this anger that

688
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: I see on social media. What's happening. I think that,

689
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: you know, there's a fundamental difference and the way technology

690
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: looks at music and the way the music industry looks

691
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: at music. You know, I think in their world it

692
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: should it should almost be free. It's like, oh, here's

693
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: the music. They kept the record labels in business. You know,

694
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: they basically said, here we're going this is money for

695
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: these masters and that's it. And they didn't really think

696
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 1: about the song part of it. You know, they thought

697
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: about the masters the artists, but what about the songwriters.

698
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, at one point, I'm not

699
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: even sure they ever wanted to pay anything, you know,

700
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: and this was like the deal they made. So here

701
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: we are with with songwriters now, Um, basically you have

702
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: to be a hit songwriter if you're going to make

703
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: any money, because if you're waiting on Spotify to pay

704
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: you royalties for that, it's going to be a really

705
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: long time. I mean what they pay is dismal. So

706
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: now you've also got people having to try to get

707
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: on in the master side. So if I'm a songwriter

708
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: and I'm developing somebody, now I have to look to

709
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: get a piece of the master or somehow get onto

710
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: the production because I've got to get money from that

711
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: or I'm not gonna be able to live unless I

712
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: have songs on radio. And now advertising is down from

713
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: COVID and you know. So I think people will look

714
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: producers will say, well, you know, how about all those

715
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: years when we didn't get royalties when songs are played

716
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: on radio. So it's it's this strange kind of like

717
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: remember that, remember this? Well, you know, it's like, well

718
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: here you are, now what does it feel like? You know?

719
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: And the reality is that the law they look at

720
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: it is it's a band aid solution everything. It's like

721
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: you've got to go back and you've got to restructure

722
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: the laws so that it's taking into account everything, not

723
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: just like oh well this changed since we last looked

724
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: at the law. And you know, it has to be

725
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: a real approach to what it means to be a

726
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: creator today and how they earn their money, whether they're

727
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: a producer, whether they're a songwriter, whether they're an artist,

728
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: or you're just going to have an industry full of

729
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: people who are always looking to create hits. And I

730
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: think that's dangerous to music because then you're creating music

731
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: in a certain way and not not doing it because

732
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: you're trying to express something, but because you're trying to

733
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: fit into a box. And that's scary to me. So,

734
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: you know, I think the MLC and collecting these royalties

735
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: is very important because we're going to get it into

736
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: the creator's hands. We've got a lot of work to

737
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: do and kind of showing the DSPs that, you know,

738
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: it's not enough to just pay out on the master side.

739
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: Care is a weird word in the music industry. We're

740
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: a business. They care, they care a little less about

741
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: the songwriter, they care a little. I mean, this is

742
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's sort of a weird

743
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: word to use. What we really need to do is

744
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: have respect, right, just a mutual respect, because if you

745
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: want creators to continue to deliver for you, there needs

746
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: to be a level of respect. And there is no

747
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: respect when you're not paying your songwriters, when you're not

748
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: saying you know, without you, I wouldn't have this big hit.

749
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: And that's keeping my doors open. So really, what has

750
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: to happen is, you know, it's more of a are

751
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: we going to stop and just be like, look, we're

752
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: not doing this until we settle this. And that's a

753
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: hard call because people have to work, they have to

754
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: bring home money. I don't know, it's going to have

755
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: to take a real disruptive moment to fix and so

756
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: that's why I think, you know, the idea of creating

757
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: a new way maybe of how we do things, maybe

758
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: on the side of taking some of these walls down

759
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: for creators and maybe the next generation will stand their

760
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: ground more. I I don't know what to say. I mean, like,

761
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: at this point, if I was in a position where

762
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: I was writing big, big songs right now and saw this,

763
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: what would I do? It's an interesting question, you know,

764
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: would I would I burn it all to the ground,

765
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: like sit there and go like get ten of my

766
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: friends and say let's just stop until they And what

767
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: does that really do? I don't know. It's a hard one.

768
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: I don't have the answer, but it's still worth a

769
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: good fight. Yeah, you're right. Um, okay, well let's um

770
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: let's wrap this up by talking about Bridge. Tell me

771
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: about you know why, tell me about the genesis of

772
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: Bridge and where someone can find it and you know

773
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: what its purposes. So Bridge was brought to me by

774
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: two kids from a school who would kind of started

775
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: with this idea that there could be a tinder for songwriters,

776
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: and it was. It had already been out there in

777
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: some variations, but I was more interested in Okay, I

778
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: love this idea of getting creators to be able to

779
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: access each other without going through a gatekeeper. Like, for example,

780
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: I may be a manager or publisher and I may

781
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: have a beef with somebody who represents another songwriter, so

782
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: I never put my songwriter with that songwriter, and that,

783
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: to me could be a missed opportunity. Or I'm somebody

784
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: who's in Nebraska and I never leave my state, and

785
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: I really want to work with other people, and I'm

786
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: young and I can't find anyone at my school. How

787
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: do I access somebody in a safe environment. So I

788
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: thought a lot about the connection part, and for me,

789
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough just to go based on skill set,

790
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: like oh, you play piano, I write lyrics, because there's

791
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: something that A and R people do. They kind of

792
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: taken into consideration the personality of the creator, like is

793
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: somebody very intense in the room, It would be better

794
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: with someone who is more quiet and sort of more

795
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: of an editor. And so we developed the psychometric survey

796
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: based on psychology, which looks at um, you know your lifestyle,

797
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: your work habits, how you view the world, how you

798
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: think you are in the room, and that will be

799
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: part of the algorithm, so it will match you based

800
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: on your personality, your skill set, and where you live.

801
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: And when you have a collaboration with somebody, you'll be

802
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: able to rate that collaboration, but it'll all be private

803
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: and then that will further refine who you match with.

804
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: All at the same time creating a very safe and

805
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: thoughtful community where you will be able to tell us

806
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: what you're looking for, what you need. So it's not

807
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: my community, it's their community. They're going to be the

808
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: ones telling us what they want, and we'll be able

809
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: to give them access to, you know, songwriting classes, critiques,

810
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: hopefully writing workshops, all the things that that they need.

811
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: UM will have a publishing division, a record division, and

812
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: we'll be able to share metrics with industry partners. We'll

813
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: be able to tell our community about what's going on

814
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: in the industry if they want to, you know, write

815
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: to this, or there's a pitch for this, or pit's

816
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 1: for that, and really democratize the way that the industry

817
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: is for creators UM. You know, down the line we'll

818
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: get into web three and n f t s and

819
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: all those things. But I think there's a lot we

820
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: can do with aligning inside the industry to make sure

821
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: that creators are heard and looked at if they're not

822
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: found on TikTok or they're not found on Spotify, and

823
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: really nurturing that environment because nobody really does. But it's

824
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: always on a very like, oh, well, do they have hits?

825
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: Tore this, do they have that? But sometimes people can't

826
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: write hits unless you're helping them, you're feeding them, you're

827
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: listening to them. And at the very core, we hope

828
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: that people will meet and be friends, be part of

829
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: a community where they can talk about things that they

830
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: couldn't talk to with anyone else. I think it's important.

831
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: Has it launched already? We're in beta right now, so um,

832
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: we are about to launch the beta, and the beta

833
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: will be a very important process where we'll be able

834
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: to see how effective the algorithm is for matching people.

835
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: That's kind of our our most viable product. And then

836
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: also it will tell us what the community wants, what

837
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 1: we're not giving to them inside the app, what they need.

838
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: Um and really listen and do some r and D

839
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: while we're developing other features for the app, and while

840
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: we're looking at ways to monetize for these creators, whether

841
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: it's in the traditional music industry or outside of that.

842
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: M hm. And does it cost the creator anything to

843
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: to be a part of it joint? There's no cost

844
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: to the creator. The only thing that we will probably

845
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: monetize is if we do special events or you know,

846
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: we have a guest speaker or something that's a larger

847
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: workshop or an educational thing. We don't want to tax

848
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: the creator. It's only you know, but we also you know,

849
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: we're running, we're running. We have to obviously bring money

850
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: in in order to stay stay you know, viable, But

851
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: we've raised around seven thousand dollars so our technologies is

852
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: up and running. And are you a co founder? What's

853
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: your role? Yeah, I'm a co founder and the CEO

854
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: and and and I just thought it was such an

855
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: important thing to do because I think it's the future

856
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: for creators. I think you you you should be able

857
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: to be scouted anywhere, and we have to figure out

858
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: ways of taking those walls down between creators in the industry.

859
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: And it's not just the tech that's been built for

860
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: us by others, but tech that we build ourselves. You know,

861
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: it's this is industry aligned and that the people that

862
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: are running it are from the music industry, but it's

863
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: a technology company. It was built by somebody the CTO

864
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: who's built things for Google and Cobalt and different players

865
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: like that. So in my mind it's different and meeting

866
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: that way because we're doing something that someone's going to

867
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: build for us in the future anyway, we might as

868
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: well do it ourselves. Amazing way to build out your Portfolioka.

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00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: As always, Kara, thanks so much for spending time with

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00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: us today. Tune in next week for another episode of

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00:50:49,840 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: Variety Strictly Business, and thank you for listening. Ten