1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,399
Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

2
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 2: All Right, So today's episode line about it Thursday Therapy.

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 2: We have Vanessa and Xander Marin So. Vanessa is a

4
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:18,920
Speaker 2: licensed psychotherapist specializing in sex therapy. She has a bachelor's

5
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 2: degree in Human Sexuality and Sociology from Brown University. She

6
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 2: has written The New York Times, Allure, and Life Hacker,

7
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 2: and has been featured many times in major publications like Oprah.

8
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: And then her husband Xander. He's a regular dude who

9
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 2: just left a cushy career in tech once you realized

10
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,280
Speaker 2: it was more fun to talk about sex with his

11
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:38,919
Speaker 2: wife all day.

12
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 1: So he's he's also.

13
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 2: Going to be on the show. But you know, you

14
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,840
Speaker 2: don't need a graduate degree license to have an extraordinary

15
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: communication skills. You just need to be open and have

16
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 2: an open mind. So they're going to talk about their book,

17
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 2: Sex Talks, Five Conversations that will Transform your love life.

18
00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,959
Speaker 1: Hi, how's your day going so far?

19
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 2: It's been it's been okay. I had a headstick my

20
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 2: son and for a little surgery on his head, so

21
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,399
Speaker 2: have just been up kind of early.

22
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: But could you guys have kids?

23
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 2: No, we don't, Okay, so you have a lot of

24
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 2: sex bees protection. Clearly, yes, good old iud. Okay, wait,

25
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: how long have you guys been married for We've been.

26
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 1: Married for eleven years, together for fifteen.

27
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: Okay, do you guys want kids? On the table? Off

28
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 2: the table, No, we don't want kids.

29
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: No kids.

30
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 2: Is that hard for you when people ask you? Probably

31
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 2: all the time.

32
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,680
Speaker 1: It's not hard for us. I mean, we did a

33
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 1: whole podcast episode about like our journey with that. We

34
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 1: both really thought that we were going to have them,

35
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,759
Speaker 1: and so it has been a hard process, like making

36
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 1: the decision not to. But at this point it's like,

37
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 1: I think we feel comfortable with it, that it feels okay,

38
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: and we know that it's just a natural question that

39
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,320
Speaker 1: everybody asks, like, you know, who are you, what do

40
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: you do? Do you have kids? So it never feels

41
00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,800
Speaker 1: like it's coming from a bad place.

42
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,559
Speaker 2: I always you know, I feel bad sometimes too, because

43
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 2: we had someone in our neighborhood, you know, because that

44
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 2: is one of the first questions that you asked someone. Right,

45
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, well you've been married for eleven years.

46
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 2: Then it's like, oh, well do you have kids? Because

47
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,920
Speaker 2: you would think, ye, write kids, but what you don't

48
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 2: also know too, is you know? When I had asked

49
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: this question to one of my neighbors when they had

50
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 2: moved in, she's like, no, we don't.

51
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you don't like I, so.

52
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 2: I should I should have stopped, and I usually stopped

53
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,640
Speaker 2: saying like, you don't want them, But it's more because

54
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 2: you don't know if those people have struggled trying to

55
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 2: have kids, so it's something they've wanted to do for

56
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,920
Speaker 2: so many years, you know, but they can't, or they've

57
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 2: tried IVF or done all those things.

58
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: And that I was like, oh, so that's.

59
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 2: Kind of where I you know, reminded myself to be like, Okay,

60
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 2: don't say that because you don't know the journey that

61
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 2: people have gone on to try to have kids. So

62
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 2: did you guys have that journey or was it just

63
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 2: like a no.

64
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, it wasn't an infertility journey for us. But yeah,

65
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: I like phrasing it that way, like do you want them?

66
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,920
Speaker 1: Because it makes it clear, like yeah, we get to

67
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 1: talk about like our own desire, and it makes it

68
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,239
Speaker 1: feel like it's a choice. It's not an expectation or

69
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,120
Speaker 1: an obligation, which I think a lot of people do

70
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: feel like it is, so, yeah, it's nice.

71
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 2: What was the thing like for you guys that you

72
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 2: were just like no, we're like when you got to

73
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 2: the final like, we're good.

74
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 1: So for us, like I said, we both thought that

75
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 1: we were going to like we had conversations before we

76
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: got married making sure we were on the same page,

77
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: and we got married younger than either one of us

78
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: thought that we would get married, So it was sort

79
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: of this question of like, yeah, like when we feel ready,

80
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 1: get a couple of years in, then we'll have kids.

81
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,680
Speaker 1: At that point, it was like.

82
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 3: It'll at least be a couple of years, like let's

83
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,920
Speaker 3: get married, yeah, wait, a couple of years advance in

84
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 3: our careers, see what happens, and then we'll check in.

85
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,120
Speaker 1: So we were kind of waiting for that period of

86
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: like feeling ready and that just wasn't really coming. So

87
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: then that started to turn into the question of like, well,

88
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: is this something that we actively want? Do we want

89
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 1: to have children? And when we started asking ourselves in

90
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 1: that way, that started to open up this whole world

91
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 1: of possibilities of like, yeah, I mean this is something

92
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 1: we both always just assumed that we would have and

93
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: did want to have at other points, but it's feeling

94
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 1: like for some reason and magically for both of us,

95
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: because we could have been in real big trouble if

96
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 1: one of us decided right not too and one of

97
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 1: us did. But yeah, we just kept coming back to

98
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,919
Speaker 1: that question of do we actually want kids, and the

99
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: answer just kept being either murky or no. And we

100
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 1: both really struggled with it because it was just having

101
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 1: to reframe our entire idea of what our lives and

102
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 1: our relationship and our family was going to look like.

103
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 1: And I think that that question kept feeling very central

104
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,279
Speaker 1: for us, Like we kept thinking, like, bringing a child

105
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,479
Speaker 1: into the world is such a big deal. It's such

106
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: an honor and a privilege and a huge responsibility, and

107
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: we would want to be able to look at our

108
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 1: child and say like we wanted you, we want to

109
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 1: do so badly, and to be neutral or to be

110
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,919
Speaker 1: feeling like, yeah, I don't think that's actually what I want,

111
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: Like it just didn't feel right to any potential child

112
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 1: that we could have either, So that question, I think

113
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,240
Speaker 1: that was really the main question for us. It's like, yeah,

114
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 1: could we could we tell a child like we wanted

115
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,200
Speaker 1: to bring you into the world?

116
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 2: And I think there's other ways too, like if that

117
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 2: ever comes you know, yeah, like when you might get older,

118
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 2: it's like, all right, you might not be able to

119
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 2: have kids, but you could do other things too, if

120
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 2: that kind of it happens, or you could find you know,

121
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 2: there's so many things if that ever like was to

122
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 2: come up, you know, So I think that's yeah.

123
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're very much looking forward to being aunts and uncles.

124
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 1: We're both of we all love kids, which is the

125
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 1: like the funny irony, like we love being around kids,

126
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 1: and we're we're like, let's have it some little nieces

127
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: and nephews, Like we want to have kids in our lives.

128
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, we're both the oldest siblings in our families.

129
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 3: So we're we're patiently waiting.

130
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,479
Speaker 1: Now we're I love the wait. Where do you guys live.

131
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 1: We're in Santa Barbara, Oh beautiful. Yeah you're in La right.

132
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: Well I used to be in La Oh gosh, I

133
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: was there for like fifteen years, but now I live

134
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:09,479
Speaker 2: in Nashville, Tennessee.

135
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Oh. We were just there with our whole

136
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 1: team at the end of the year last year. Did

137
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 1: you like it? Loved it? It was super fun.

138
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild, but it's it's good for it's good

139
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 2: for families, and it's good for like just the different

140
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 2: pace of life and you know, the upbringing. Like I'm

141
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,520
Speaker 2: from Michigan originally, so just you know, being able to

142
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,479
Speaker 2: have like my kids ride their bikes across the street

143
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 2: in a neighborhood as opposed to you know, in Los Angeles.

144
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 2: I was like, there's a homeless person, watch out or

145
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,560
Speaker 2: you know. So it's like, I just this isn't really

146
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,720
Speaker 2: where I envisioned like the childhood for my kids, because

147
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 2: I always I loved my child.

148
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: How old are you, guys, I'm thirty nine?

149
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 2: How to think about Okay for a second, so so yeah,

150
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 2: so I'm thirty nine. So it's one of those things

151
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: where I'm like, our like growing up in our generation

152
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,040
Speaker 2: was awesome. You know, like we're outside all the time

153
00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 2: and we don't have the iPads or the phones and

154
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 2: all that crap. So I'm trying so hard to mimic

155
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 2: the best that I can for my kids. And it's

156
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 2: like it is hard because I'll be like, you know,

157
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 2: it's a nice day. When we get the nice days

158
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 2: before summer, I'm like, go outside, and what are we

159
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 2: gonna do. I'm like, go outside. I don't care what

160
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 2: you do. You can jump on the trampoline, you can

161
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 2: go in the pool, you can go in like the

162
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,119
Speaker 2: little playground area.

163
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: Like I just go outside, like.

164
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, like grab a piece of chock and write a

165
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 2: real long while. I don't know, like just go outside,

166
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 2: like and it's you know, I used to just beg

167
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 2: to like not come back in, you know, as a kid.

168
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 2: So it's just interesting.

169
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 1: But let's talk about sex.

170
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 2: So I okay, my last experience with sex therapy was

171
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 2: when I was married, and it was probably the middle

172
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 2: of our marriage when we were trying to work on

173
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 2: like intimacy issues. God, what is that?

174
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 1: So what's that called?

175
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,360
Speaker 2: It wasn't.

176
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 3: It wasn't.

177
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 2: It was a different name for the sex therapy. It

178
00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 2: was called like what is that with the tantra? Is

179
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff that you do or no, Like.

180
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: It's no, it's totally different.

181
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,239
Speaker 2: Okay, So what is the difference between tantra and sex therapy?

182
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 1: So the interesting thing about sex therapy is that it's

183
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: not a regulated term like the way psychotherapy is. So

184
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different forms of sex therapy.

185
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,560
Speaker 1: It's still a relatively young field, and there are people

186
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: doing it in really different and unique ways. So Tantra

187
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 1: kind of like fits in the general umbrella of like

188
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 1: just working with people to have healthier relationships with sex.

189
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 1: The route that I decided to go is that I

190
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 1: wanted to have like a therapy background, So I got

191
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: a master's degree, I got licensed as a psychotherapist, a

192
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist, and so that's like the foundation.

193
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 1: So when I was seeing people one on one, it

194
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 1: was like the traditional psychotherapy model, like you come in

195
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,559
Speaker 1: once a week, we talk about stuff. But I realized

196
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,800
Speaker 1: early in my career that I was explaining the same

197
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,600
Speaker 1: sorts of things over and over again, and I started thinking, like,

198
00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 1: there has to be a more effective way to share

199
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 1: all this information. There's a lot of what I do

200
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 1: is education and also really getting into the nitty gritty

201
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,920
Speaker 1: with people of like try this out, do these things

202
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: in this order, report back. So I started building out

203
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,440
Speaker 1: online courses almost ten years ago and realized that that

204
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: was a really great fit. People could access the information

205
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 1: from the comfort and the privacy of their own home,

206
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 1: they could talk it over with their partners. So we've

207
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 1: built up this business together over the last ten years

208
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 1: of selling courses and guides and even challenges for couples.

209
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: So what we do is it's very action oriented, like

210
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,599
Speaker 1: like we have our foreplay guides as are one of

211
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 1: our biggest sellers. It's like, here's exactly what to do

212
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: when there's a penis in front of you. Step by step,

213
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: try these things out, and then stuff like challenges where

214
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 1: we send couples like it's a new idea every single

215
00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 1: day of something to try together, to bring the spark

216
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,560
Speaker 1: or to feel more connected with each other. So what

217
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: we do is like really practical and very very fun.

218
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of people can kind of

219
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 3: get in their heads when they hear sex therapy because yeah,

220
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 3: you immediately jump to those like more extreme ends of

221
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 3: like oh well, like if we need to go to

222
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,640
Speaker 3: sex therapy, then it's like we have to learn tantra

223
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 3: or BDSM or you know, something that feels a little

224
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 3: further out of your comfort zone. And I think, you know,

225
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 3: the reality is is that like there's actually a huge

226
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 3: opportunity to just talk about like what is the day

227
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 3: to day kind of sex that we're actually having and

228
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,760
Speaker 3: what are you know, how can we kind of unwind

229
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 3: some of the maybe unhealthy dynamics that that we've fallen

230
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 3: into or whatever it is. It's it's not like, oh, well,

231
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 3: the sex we're having is boring and we have to

232
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 3: do like we have to ten exit. It's like, no,

233
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,120
Speaker 3: let's just talk about the regular everyday stuff and how

234
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 3: to make that feel more fun and more connecting.

235
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that mars about what your experience was like.

236
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 2: Then well, well, so with the Tantra thing, you know,

237
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,199
Speaker 2: my act says and he was vocal about this when

238
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 2: he was on the podcast, but you know, he had

239
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 2: like an intimacy right kind of disorder along with some

240
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 2: other stuff, and so you know, our couples therapist had

241
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,559
Speaker 2: recommended it. And for me, like I am a very

242
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 2: sexual person. I like sex, it's fun for me. But

243
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 2: the idea of Tantra, I was like, why do I

244
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 2: need someone else to like try to help my husband

245
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 2: like touch me or be intimately like And so I

246
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 2: walked in like he was way more willing than I was,

247
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 2: and I was just I kind of walked in and

248
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 2: I was so uncomfortable for some reason, like it was

249
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 2: just another person, like because I think I always equated

250
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,280
Speaker 2: like love and sex, and so I think they were

251
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 2: teaching is like touch can still be intimacy without sex,

252
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,559
Speaker 2: and I, like always I had a tough time kind

253
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 2: of like understanding that. I get that now that intimacy

254
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 2: is more than just sex. But so it was. We

255
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 2: had one session we were supposed to do like four,

256
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 2: but we had just did the one and we were done.

257
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was it was. I didn't I didn't

258
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 2: love it. And I have no problem talking about sex,

259
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 2: which is weird, but I think you know that she

260
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 2: was like like hump, and I'm like, this is so awkward,

261
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,079
Speaker 2: Like what are we doing here?

262
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:11,760
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

263
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,440
Speaker 2: Like I don't want you to like try hump me,

264
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 2: like in an office with like a lady, Like this

265
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:16,439
Speaker 2: is so weird.

266
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: To get me out of here. You know. I have

267
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: respect for like people working in whatever way they want

268
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 1: to work more and different things work for different people.

269
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:28,840
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who would like love

270
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,720
Speaker 1: that for me personally, Yeah, the idea of like having

271
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 1: people do things in front of me, I knew people

272
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,360
Speaker 1: were going to be so uncomfortable and it didn't feel

273
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: like the authentic way that I wanted to work. So

274
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 1: I love being able to create like guides and courses

275
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 1: that are so practical and give people so many fun

276
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 1: things to try out, but on their own, it doesn't

277
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: need to be in front.

278
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,559
Speaker 2: How did you pick like sex as the category? Was

279
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 2: it like when you were working with people like that

280
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 2: was the main issue that kept coming up? Or like

281
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 2: what was that kind of discovery for you?

282
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 3: Oh, go back, it goes back.

283
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a sex therapist basically my entire life.

284
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 1: It really traces back to my parents' very awkward attempt

285
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 1: at giving me the talk. So be aware if you're,

286
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, getting close to.

287
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 2: Needing to give the talk to your kids, now turn

288
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 2: it seven and four lots of time.

289
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,839
Speaker 1: So my parents were really awkward about it. It wasn't

290
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 1: really a talk, and it just left me feeling embarrassed

291
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: and ashamed and very confused. So I didn't have any

292
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: idea that sex therapy existed as a career back then,

293
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,079
Speaker 1: But that moment stuck with me and I kept coming

294
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: back to this idea of like, why can't we talk

295
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,959
Speaker 1: about sex? I am curious, I have a lot of questions.

296
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: I'm hearing things on the playground that I want to

297
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,599
Speaker 1: check out with my parents. So once I got a

298
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: little bit older. You know, that question had just lingered

299
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 1: with me for so long. I thought, you know what,

300
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: I think I want to do this, like for my life.

301
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 1: I think this is my life purpose to help people

302
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,520
Speaker 1: get more comfortable talking about this very normal, very human subject.

303
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,880
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, I had no idea I

304
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 3: ever wanted to or was going to.

305
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 1: Do anything like that chricked into it.

306
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got hoodwinked, but no. I mean like when

307
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 3: Vanessa and I met, she was in training to become

308
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 3: a sex theary and you.

309
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 1: Must have been like, hell yeah sex there.

310
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 3: Yes. I was like I was like, oh, this is cool,

311
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 3: Like this is going to be great to tell my

312
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 3: friends about, Like they're going to think really highly of me, right.

313
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 3: But the funny thing is, you know, kind of underlying

314
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,479
Speaker 3: all that was like I was also a little intimidated

315
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 3: and scared because I was like, I don't want to

316
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 3: talk about our own sex life. That feels really awkward

317
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 3: and potentially embarrassing. So you know, we kind of skirted

318
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 3: around the edges for a while, you know, talking about like, oh,

319
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,720
Speaker 3: the types of issues that she's working with with other

320
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 3: people people and all that stuff, and kind of like

321
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 3: you know, burying my head in the sand about you know,

322
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 3: what was going on with us, and you know, eventually

323
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 3: we ended up, you know, starting to have our own

324
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 3: issues when it came to intimacy and sex drive and

325
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 3: all that stuff. And eventually I came to realize like, oh, like,

326
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 3: actually we can talk about this, Like we are allowed

327
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 3: to talk about this, We're allowed to get help, we're

328
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 3: allowed to improve and work on it. And so I

329
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360
Speaker 3: got a lot more comfortable with things, and I started

330
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 3: running the back end of Vanessa's business as it started

331
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 3: to grow. You know, I left a career in tech,

332
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 3: and eventually she convinced me to get in front of

333
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 3: the camera because she's like, oh, people want to hear

334
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 3: you know, from you Like, as you know a husband.

335
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: There's something great about the guy's perspective always, which is

336
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,480
Speaker 2: what I always loved, you know, and with you know,

337
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 2: with my ax is like to have two different perspectives

338
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 2: like that can it's helping two different people at the

339
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 2: same time, you know.

340
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I think that that. So yeah, now we

341
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: both are kind of in front of the camera. We

342
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,920
Speaker 1: wrote our books Sex Talks together, and we get so

343
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 1: much positive feedback about that. People say, like it's so

344
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 1: great to hear you guys talking about it as a

345
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 1: real couple and acknowledging like, Yeah, even though I'm a

346
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 1: sex therapist and I think a lot of people would

347
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: assume we just have the perfect sex life, It's like

348
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 1: we don't. We you know, we get vulnerable.

349
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So what is then, what's the issue like in

350
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 2: the in the ups and downs of like in the

351
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 2: downs of y'all sex, Like, what are some of the

352
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 2: issues that come up? And not only yours, but others

353
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 2: that you see too.

354
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: So what happened to us is I think what happens

355
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 1: to ninety eight percent of couples once you kind of

356
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 1: hit that long term aspect of the relationship. Like, we

357
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: started off so hot and heavy. The chemistry was just unbelievable.

358
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,040
Speaker 1: We were so excited about each other. We felt like

359
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: we were this incredible fit. And then we get a

360
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 1: couple of years into the relationship, you're you know, we're

361
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 1: more comfortable with each other, we live with each other,

362
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 1: and we just noticed things start to slow down.

363
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 3: Life catches up.

364
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: With Yeah, you know, we weren't how having as much sex.

365
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: The sex that we were having wasn't feeling very exciting.

366
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: It was really predictable, and it brought up fears for

367
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,919
Speaker 1: both of us of like what happened to us? We

368
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: had this unreal connection at the beginning, like where did

369
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,879
Speaker 1: those people go? Where did that chemistry go? And so

370
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: I think most people have experienced that and experienced the

371
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 1: fear that comes along with it, and a lot of

372
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: people even break up at that stage just feeling like

373
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,399
Speaker 1: maybe this means we're not a good fit. But that

374
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: was when we started navigating, like hey, maybe instead of

375
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: just freaking out or burying our heads in the sand,

376
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 1: like maybe let's try to talk about it.

377
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 2: And so like what are those conversations like like what

378
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,200
Speaker 2: do you like? How how would you help a couple

379
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 2: like what do you write about in your book to

380
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 2: have those kind of conversations like where do you even start?

381
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 2: Because I feel like the other person might become defensive

382
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 2: if they're not thinking the same thing too, right, Like

383
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 2: if my boyfriend was to be like, hey, our sex

384
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 2: is getting boring, I'd be like wait what like oh,

385
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,399
Speaker 2: you know, like we're talking about.

386
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean. And that is the mistake that most

387
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 3: people make, is they get to that point where it

388
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 3: feels like something is wrong and then one or both

389
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,679
Speaker 3: partners comes in hot like, hey, why aren't you doing this?

390
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 3: Why isn't why isn't this happening? And yeah, exactly like

391
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 3: you said, that immediately brings up defensiveness rather than like

392
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,360
Speaker 3: any kind of curiosity, right.

393
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 1: So yeah, so we wrote sex Talks because the idea

394
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,120
Speaker 1: of talking about sex is nothing new, Like when you're

395
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 1: up late at night googling all your secret sex questions

396
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,320
Speaker 1: in the dark and incognitum.

397
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 3: Book, Yeah, why doesn't the initiate sex with me anymore?

398
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: It's like that's at the end of every article, right, like,

399
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: just talk about it with your partner.

400
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: And then your course is linked.

401
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: Perfect.

402
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 3: I wish we're still working on that part.

403
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 1: So you know, we know that we should be talking

404
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: about sex, but the articles always end there and we're

405
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: left with this feeling of like, but how what do

406
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: I say? When do I say it? How do I

407
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: not hurt my partner's feelings or you know, bruise their

408
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,679
Speaker 1: ego make them upset? So, like I was saying earlier,

409
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 1: like we love being super practical and very nitty gritty,

410
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 1: so we're like, we want to write a book that

411
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,719
Speaker 1: teaches you exactly how to have these kinds of conversations.

412
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: So we boiled this enormous topic down into the five

413
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: conversations that we think every couple should have and that

414
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 1: would be really beneficial. And then we walk you through

415
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: exactly like talk about this, and then say this, and

416
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 1: then take this a little quiz and talk about your

417
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 1: answers with each other. So it's a really interactive book.

418
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 1: But I'll say, like, the first conversation that we start

419
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: with is acknowledgment. So Xander was just talking about the

420
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: mistake most of us make is waiting until things are bad,

421
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: and then that just y, it feels scarier and.

422
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,479
Speaker 3: Spoiler alert, it is not acknowledgment of the problem.

423
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: Yes, So instead, like we have, couples take a very

424
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,719
Speaker 1: different approach, and we want you to get comfortable talking

425
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: about sex, just in a general sense, just getting comfortable

426
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: with the topic of it. So we're not getting into

427
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,360
Speaker 1: the problems, we're not making requests. It's just like, hey,

428
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: we're both humans who have been raised with all sorts

429
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: of sexual baggage and crap. We're both embarrassed and and

430
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, nervous to talk about this, so let's just

431
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: get comfortable with the topic.

432
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, like sas sex is a thing the two of

433
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 3: us have it, it's okay.

434
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: So one of the very practical exercises from that conversation

435
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: that anybody could do, like after they listened to this podcast,

436
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: is take a moment to think about one of your

437
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,479
Speaker 1: favorite sexual memories with your partner and then share it

438
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,160
Speaker 1: with them.

439
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: Like remember that time when we first met, like we

440
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. Yeah, okay, yeah, Oh I love that.

441
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 2: That's so good because it gets them excited too.

442
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So you can say like, oh, I was

443
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast and this like crazy sex therapist

444
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: said to tell you this, or you can just say

445
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: like it popped into my mind randomly, like you know,

446
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: it just popped into my mind, or even you had

447
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: a dream about it. No one I had a dream

448
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: about last night. But you're just sharing the memory, no requests,

449
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: no complaints tied to it. It's just like, yeah, remember

450
00:20:59,240 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: that time?

451
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah and yeah. I mean what that starts to do

452
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 3: is that starts to lay the foundation of Oh, sex

453
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 3: is a safe topic. It's a topic that we can

454
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 3: come back to, we can talk about. It makes us

455
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 3: feel good, it makes us feel connected, and it's not

456
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 3: a topic where once it gets brought up, it immediately

457
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 3: goes to a fight. Because that's the experience that so

458
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 3: many people have, is like, you do it, but you

459
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 3: don't talk about it. You don't talk, you don't talk,

460
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 3: you don't talk, things start to get weird, and then

461
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you talk and it's a defensive

462
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 3: argument and whatnot. And even if that hasn't happened in

463
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 3: your current relationship, it's likely that it's happened in one

464
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 3: or both of your prior relationships. Maybe it's even ended

465
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 3: a relationship. So that's why so many people are just

466
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 3: so hesitant and scared to talk about it, because it's

467
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 3: like we've had that experience of it being awkward. Even

468
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 3: if that hasn't happened, you probably have the experience of

469
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 3: it being awkward when your parents brought it up with

470
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 3: you for the first time. So we're just like primed

471
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 3: to be like, this is awkward. I want to do it,

472
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 3: but I don't want to talk about it.

473
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: I'm curious where you're where your ays of stances on

474
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: bringing outside things in like porn.

475
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, porn is such a tricky topic. So the basic

476
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: reality of like watching other people have sex that is

477
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: sexy that is stimulating, Like there's nothing wrong with that.

478
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: It makes sense to be turned on by it.

479
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 3: We see that in movies and TV shows all the time.

480
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, any time.

481
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 2: I like.

482
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

483
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: But when I think about it, though, I'm like, like,

484
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 2: I never really had an issue with porn, but now

485
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: you know things that happened in my past marriage and

486
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: then so there's relationship now I'm kind of like, to me,

487
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just want sex be more intimate like

488
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: us and like not bring because I feel like when

489
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 2: you allow, whether it's another person or porn or things like,

490
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: it starts to like maybe a numb what y'all have

491
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 2: as opposed to because then it's I feel like once

492
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: someone has something like all right, well that was a night,

493
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 2: let's let's try this, and then it's like you're never

494
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: gonna be satisfied.

495
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: Then if if it's just it's more than can definitely. Yeah,

496
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: for some couples, it can feel like a very exciting

497
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: thing to like watch together and you get turned on.

498
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: For other couples, it can definitely feel like it gets

499
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: in the way of your human to human intimacy. And

500
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we need to

501
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: be cautious about when it comes to porn is recognizing

502
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: that porn sex is not real sex, right, It's not

503
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: what sex actually looks like. It should not be said

504
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: as like the gold standard, so.

505
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: Now it looks ten years married in and everything else.

506
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean, porn is meant to be entertainment.

507
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: So I heard somebody ages ago say like, looking at

508
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: porn and trying to figure out how to have sex

509
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: based on porn is like watching The Fast and Furious

510
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: and thinking that's how you learn to drive. Like, It's

511
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: just it's totally different things. So we don't want people

512
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: feeling like they need to live up to that. So yeah,

513
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: it just gets very complicated, and it's really dependent on

514
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: the couple.

515
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: For the couples that have kind of lost hope in

516
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: their sex life, like, is there something in your book

517
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: too that gives them well A, I mean a lot

518
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: of people struggle with sex and their marriage and relationships,

519
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: But is there something too that they can like like, Okay,

520
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: you know I'm not alone in this, and this is

521
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: this is going to help like tangibility with it in

522
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 2: a way.

523
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So one important piece is that we lead with

524
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: a lot of vulnerability. You know, we do share stories

525
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: of our ups and downs to really try to help

526
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: normalize this and help people realize like pretty much every

527
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 1: couple is going to struggle with their sex life in

528
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: one way or another at one time or another, like

529
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: it's normal and it's okay. And then more practically, the

530
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: second conversation in Sex Talks is called connection, like what

531
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: do we need to feel close to each other? And

532
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are surprised to see

533
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: that chapter. They're like, I thought this was a book

534
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: about sex, but really like sex and emotional intimacy, Like

535
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: they're so deeply entwined in a long term relationship. And

536
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, if your sex life is suffering,

537
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: there are probably also issues with your emotional intimacy as well,

538
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 1: the connection that the two of you feel. So there

539
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: are a lot of amazing exercises and conversations within that

540
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: chapter about figuring out, like what do we need to

541
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: feel close to each other again? To feel like important

542
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: to each other again? So to make that even more

543
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: practical and give like another specific thing that somebody could do.

544
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: One of the exercises in that chapter is to practice

545
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: sharing gratitude for each other. I know a lot of

546
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: people kind of like yeah, yeah, I know, gratitude journal whatever,

547
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: but gratitude was actually found, like there was one study

548
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: that found gratitude was the number one predictor of marital satisfaction.

549
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: Number one gratitude. So the interesting thing about gratitude is

550
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: it's really easy to do too, Like if you take free,

551
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: free seconds, it's free, it's easy, it doesn't take very

552
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: much time, and you'll be shocked to see what a

553
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: huge different difference it makes if you try to take

554
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: some time throughout your day to just call out the

555
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: things that you see your partner doing, Like, hey, I

556
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: saw that you unloaded the dishwasher. I really appreciate that.

557
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: I saw that you took the dogs out. That was

558
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: really nice of you. I saw that you you know whatever.

559
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: It is, like it's so easy, but it has a

560
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: really big impact.

561
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we fall into this trap, I think,

562
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: especially in the long term, of looking at those things

563
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: as like, oh, well, that's their job and this is

564
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: you know, these things are my job and those things

565
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: are their job, so like why why would I be

566
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: thinking them for that? And it turns it into this

567
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 3: sort of transactional thing like you do your stuff, I

568
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: do my stuff. That's how we make everything work. But

569
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: you know, a relationship, a marriage, like your sex life,

570
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: it's not a transactional thing. And so I think if

571
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: you start, if it starts feeling like everything in your

572
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: relationlationship is purely transactional, that it's a job. Like that,

573
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: we start to lose touch with like you know, what,

574
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: what is the relationship all about? Like why did we

575
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 3: get into this relationship in the first place. Like there's

576
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: there's more to it than the transactional. There's so much

577
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: connection and fun and playfulness.

578
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's great. And honestly, I mean, you know,

579
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 2: I my sex is great, Like I'm not like I'm

580
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: not in a like a very it's it's very I'm

581
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: in the very fun stage right with the new boyfriend.

582
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: So but I feel like this book is for people

583
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: that you know at all stages because it just opens communication.

584
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: So whether you're it's great or struggling, like there are

585
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: ups and downs no matter what. So just to have

586
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: this book as just like an open communication I think

587
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: is great for what wherever you are at in your

588
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: sex journey.

589
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, we really wanted, like Sanda was saying earlier,

590
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: like a lot of people have the idea we only

591
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: go to sex therapy or we only work on our

592
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: sex life if it's bad. But we really want to

593
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: spread this message that every couple, no matter how great

594
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: your sex life is or how you know, how tough

595
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: it is right now, like every couple can benefit from

596
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: having these conversations. And the really cool thing about sex

597
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: is there's always something new to learn, there's always something

598
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: new to explore. And it doesn't mean that what you're

599
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: doing now isn't good enough. It's just like there's a

600
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: whole world of possibilities. Why wouldn't we try exploring it

601
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: with each other.

602
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reality is that you know, over the course

603
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: of a relationship, like things change, like each of our

604
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: you know, I feel like, okay, right now, our sex

605
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 3: drives are super in sync where it's it's super easy

606
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: and effortless, but you know, everything goes up and down

607
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: their cycles to everything, and you know, like it's it

608
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: felt like total the effortless for us at the beginning,

609
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: and then you know, things started changing and you know,

610
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 3: you know, there we've been through periods of mismatched, periods

611
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: of being in more sync, and so yeah, to the

612
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: extent that you can start getting comfortable with all this stuff.

613
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: When it's good, it's going to make it so much

614
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: easier as soon as you know, I'm not trying to

615
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: say that when things get bad, like just as soon

616
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: as things just start to shift, it's so much easier

617
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: to just acknowledge it and to be aware of it

618
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: and to talk about it openly, like Okay, huh this

619
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: is going on, Like huh, what can we do as

620
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: a team to address this or to you know, try

621
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: to make this a little easier rather than the kind

622
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: of like, oh hm, seeming like this isn't working as well,

623
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: and you know, oh, let's let's just see what happens, right,

624
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: And I hope it gets better and you know, without

625
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: acknowledging it.

626
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: Sure well. I love that you guys are doing this,

627
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: especially as a you know, husband and wife team. I

628
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: think that's great. Again, Like it's it's helping both sides

629
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: and understanding the husband's point of view from the wife's

630
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: view and vice versa. So I think that's great. So

631
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: everyone get their book Sex Talks The Five Conversations that

632
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: Will Transform Your Love Life and listen to their podcast,

633
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: Pillow Talks, Oh with Xander and Vanessa, I love it.

634
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for coming on mine.

635
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: Den, thank you for having a chatting with you. Yeah,

636
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: you too,