Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Guess what I gave? What's that Mango?
Speaker 1: It is part two of our Tintin Extravaganza, So if
Speaker 1: you miss part one, go check it out and come
Speaker 1: back to this one when you're up to speed on
Speaker 1: the story.
Speaker 3: I stayed up way past my bedtime last night studying
Speaker 3: all things Captain Haddeck, Professor Calculus, and Bianca Castifiore in
Speaker 3: preparation for this one.
Speaker 2: I am ready.
Speaker 1: I love Professor Calculus. He is such a fun character.
Speaker 1: Did you know he was modeled after a real person,
Speaker 1: Professor Auguste Picard.
Speaker 3: I did not know that. Who's Professor Picard?
Speaker 1: He was an interesting guy. He was the first person
Speaker 1: to enter Earth's stratosphere and he was also the inventor
Speaker 1: of the deep sea observation vessel. It's called the Bathoscaff,
Speaker 1: but more importantly for Tinton purposes, he also had a
Speaker 1: unique hairstyle. He was balding on top and he had
Speaker 1: long and curly hair on the sides and air j
Speaker 1: would see him walking around the streets of Brussels and
Speaker 1: he kind of got inspired.
Speaker 3: I love all these real world connections, and Airjay's were
Speaker 3: like Thompson and Thompson, the hapless nearly identical detectives. They
Speaker 3: were said to be inspired by air Jay's father, Alexi
Speaker 3: and his twin brother Leon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of the unknown parentage we discussed, right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a Part one reference in case you're wondering, so seriously, though,
Speaker 1: go listen to part one if you haven't, But back
Speaker 1: to Thompson and Thompson.
Speaker 3: As you know, Mango, they wear matching black suits and
Speaker 3: bowler hats, carry matching canes, and have matching bushy mustaches.
Speaker 3: I read that when Airjay was growing up, his dad
Speaker 3: and uncle would often go on walks together, wearing identical hats,
Speaker 3: carrying identical canes, black umbrellas, and with the same facial hair.
Speaker 3: I know he said his childhood was gray and boring,
Speaker 3: but these people sound pretty interesting to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they sound like characters. And one of my favorite
Speaker 1: things about Thompson and Thompson that's spelled with and without
Speaker 1: a P, is that their names actually change in other languages.
Speaker 1: So their original names in French are DuPont and DuPont
Speaker 1: with a T and D, but pronounced identically in German,
Speaker 1: it's Schultz and Schultz. In Spanish, it's Ernandez and Fernandez.
Speaker 1: In Arabic it's tick and talk. But my personal favorite, however,
Speaker 1: is Icelandic, where they are known as Scoffti and Scoffty.
Speaker 1: And apologies to any Icelandic listeners out there and also
Speaker 1: speakers of other languages. I'm sure I did not do
Speaker 1: your languages justice.
Speaker 3: I wonder how you say I'm sorry in Icelandic French.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. Yeah, well, Mengo.
Speaker 3: As fascinating as these secondary characters are, let's return them
Speaker 3: to the background for now, because in today's final installment
Speaker 3: of our Tintin Adventure, we're talking comic book controversies, Tintin's
Speaker 3: arrival in the US, and some unbelievable true stories about
Speaker 3: modern Tintin adaptations. So let's dive in.
Speaker 1: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to part time Genius. I'm Mongish,
Speaker 1: hearticular as always, I'm here with my good friend Gabe
Speaker 1: Lucier today because Will Pearson is off and traveling and
Speaker 1: enjoying the world tinton style. Also our pal and producer
Speaker 1: Dylan Fagan. He left as a note saying he'd gone
Speaker 1: adventuring with his faithful dog I didn't even know Dylan
Speaker 1: had a dog.
Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently he does. It's news to me, but good news. Actually,
Speaker 3: a postcard just arrived. It says, dear Gabe and Mango,
Speaker 3: having a great time on my adventures. Next stop, Sildavia.
Speaker 3: Oh love Dylan.
Speaker 2: Sildavi? Where is a come on?
Speaker 3: You remember? It's a fictional country and the Balkans that
Speaker 3: appears in a couple of Tintin books. In one book,
Speaker 3: Tinton goes there to stop a plot to overthrow the king,
Speaker 3: and another he learns that the Sildavian government is planning
Speaker 3: a mission to the Moon.
Speaker 2: I vaguely remember that.
Speaker 1: And Sildavia really feels like a vibe.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, maybe more of a state of mind. But
Speaker 3: that's a great tourism slogan for a fictional country. It's
Speaker 3: a vibe.
Speaker 2: But are Mango?
Speaker 3: I meant to ask you this last week and I
Speaker 3: totally forgot. What would you say is your all time
Speaker 3: favorite Tintin book? I think it's got to be The
Speaker 3: Blue Lotus or the Tintin and Tibet. I actually really
Speaker 3: fell in love with tint and Tibet when I was
Speaker 3: studying a broad in Tibet, because I read it to
Speaker 3: Tibetan's to hear how they saw the misconceptions about the
Speaker 3: culture or and people were just so appreciative of it,
Speaker 3: you know, they really loved it. There were modern Belgian
Speaker 3: comics that were coming out that exoticized Tibet did such
Speaker 3: little research and Airjay was so accurate for someone who
Speaker 3: never visited, and so I have a fondness for that story.
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we talked about this in the last episode.
Speaker 1: The character obviously has a massive global appeal, but in
Speaker 1: the US it's a little different. The books were never
Speaker 1: quite successful here as they were in the rest of
Speaker 1: their world. The first tinton comics were published in Belgium
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty nine, and the first book, Tintin in
Speaker 1: the Land of Soviets, came out in nineteen thirty, but
Speaker 1: there were actually no English language editions of Tintin until
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, and those were published in the UK,
Speaker 1: So the books weren't published in America until late nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty nine. And just as an interesting side note, at
Speaker 1: the time, the US had this really negative image of
Speaker 1: comic books. Conservatives thought that they kept kids from reading
Speaker 1: proper books, and in nineteen fifty five, New York State
Speaker 1: actually passed the law banning comics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that does sound like something conservatives in the nineteen
Speaker 3: fifties would do.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean, the New York legislator believed that
Speaker 1: so called crime comics were quote a contributing factor leading
Speaker 1: to juvenile delinquency, and they banned comics that had words
Speaker 1: like horror, terror, or crime in the title or anything
Speaker 1: that talked about that kind of thing, which in practice
Speaker 1: outlawed most comics, except you know, the really tame ones
Speaker 1: like Archie or Tinton, both of actually which made their
Speaker 1: ways to India. But back to Tinton's arrival state side,
Speaker 1: it was actually Golden Press, the publisher of Little Golden Books,
Speaker 1: who first brought Tintin to the US.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember those.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course, those kids books about being good
Speaker 3: and working hard or whatever, all the you know, life
Speaker 3: lessons and moral stuff like a little red hen, a
Speaker 3: little engine that could a lot of little things, you know,
Speaker 3: Given Tintin's roots in boy scout morality, that makes a
Speaker 3: lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But believe it or not, even Tinton had to
Speaker 1: make changes for the Puritans in America. For example, Golden
Speaker 1: Press asked AIRJ to replace a couple of drawings where
Speaker 1: Captain Haddock was drinking straight from the bottle, because they said, quote,
Speaker 1: the presentation of alcoholism, especially in humors form, is absolutely taboo.
Speaker 1: They also didn't want any scenes where black characters and
Speaker 1: white characters appeared together, which is, you know, hard to
Speaker 1: hear now. But this was just a couple of years
Speaker 1: after Brown versus Board of Education, and the country was
Speaker 1: still very, very publicly segregated. So HAIRJ ended up redrawing
Speaker 1: several panels in order to get the books published here.
Speaker 3: So when Tintin finally came to America, was it a
Speaker 3: big hit like it had been in Europe.
Speaker 1: No. Sales were pretty terrible initially, probably because parents still
Speaker 1: didn't trust comic books, but over time he slowly gained readers,
Speaker 1: and by the early seventies Tintin was relatively popular. And
Speaker 1: that brings us back to the incredible story we told
Speaker 1: last time about Jay's trip to New York in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two, and that's when he ended up meeting Andy Warhol.
Speaker 1: He'd been invited to attend a comic strip convention, but
Speaker 1: by that point he was so famous he got to
Speaker 1: do a bunch of other things too, like he hung
Speaker 1: out at the factory. He presented the then mayor John
Speaker 1: Lindsay with the poster sized drawing of Tintin visiting the city,
Speaker 1: and it was titled Stars and Comic Strips.
Speaker 4: Nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, quite got some love here. And if there's one
Speaker 3: thing we've discovered about Airj though, it's that he's every
Speaker 3: bit as controversial as he is popular. We talked last
Speaker 3: episode about the use of racial stereotypes in his work,
Speaker 3: but there's also a troubling question looming over the artist himself.
Speaker 3: Did he side with the Nazis during World War Two?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's obviously not a great look when people can't
Speaker 1: rule that out about you. But if you were to
Speaker 1: ask Airja supporters, they'd likely point you to this one
Speaker 1: adventure it's called King Otakar's Scepter, for proof that the
Speaker 1: artist was not sympathetic to the Nazis.
Speaker 3: Do you buy it? Like, is it convincing to you
Speaker 3: as proof?
Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely an anti Nazi agenda in the books.
Speaker 1: In the comic, Tinton travels to this made up country
Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Psiladavia. The villain is a guy named
Speaker 1: Mustlaire from a country called Borduria. And obviously Tintonologists, who
Speaker 1: I have to note are not super critical of Airja,
Speaker 1: says Borduria represents Nazi Germany. The plot is that Mussler,
Speaker 1: who's a combination of Mussolini and Hitler, is trying to
Speaker 1: get Bordouria to take over Sildavia, and Tinton, of course,
Speaker 1: is the hero who thwarts that plan. Now, King Ottocarceptra
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen thirty eight and thirty nine, right
Speaker 1: after Germany annexed Austria, so the comparison does seem pretty clear.
Speaker 1: And it's fair to say that Je didn't seem like
Speaker 1: a fan of a country taking over other countries, and
Speaker 1: the epitome of who was doing this at the time
Speaker 1: was Nazi Germany.
Speaker 3: Well, that does make sense. But if we want to
Speaker 3: get the clearest sense of where Erje you really stood
Speaker 3: on all of this, we probably shouldn't look at just
Speaker 3: what he wrote and drew in his books. We've got
Speaker 3: to look at what he did in his own life. Right.
Speaker 3: So in May nineteen forty, after Germany invaded Belgium, Airje,
Speaker 3: his wife, and his Siamese cat all escaped to France
Speaker 3: along with about a million other people. But later that
Speaker 3: same month, the King of Belgium, Leopold the Third, surrendered
Speaker 3: to Germany and the king asked his compatriots to return home.
Speaker 3: So Airje was a big supporter of the king and
Speaker 3: loyal to his country. And six weeks after he left
Speaker 3: he came back.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing he returned to a very different country.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. For one thing, his old newspaper, the Catholic newspaper
Speaker 3: he'd been working at, Levonte Mciekla, it had been closed
Speaker 3: by the Nazis. A lot of other papers opted to
Speaker 3: shut down rather than run, and you know, have to
Speaker 3: support Nazi propaganda, as you know, collaborationists. There were also
Speaker 3: journalists who chose to quit so they didn't have to
Speaker 3: work under Nazis. But one that stayed open was Le Soois,
Speaker 3: one of the big daily papers. It was run by
Speaker 3: Belgian Nazi collaborationists and censored by the Germans, so definitely
Speaker 3: pro Nazi, right. And when Airje got back to Brussels,
Speaker 3: the editor of Larsois asked him to come aboard.
Speaker 1: So do we get the impression that this is a
Speaker 1: difficult decision for Je.
Speaker 3: Not at all, It seems like it was pretty straightforward.
Speaker 3: He claimed he wasn't really thinking about politics. He just
Speaker 3: needed them money, and he also needed a place for Tintin.
Speaker 3: In his view, he'd worked hard to get tintinto where
Speaker 3: it was and he didn't want to give that up. Plus,
Speaker 3: Larsoise still had a really large readership, much larger than
Speaker 3: the other paper he'd been working on, So he was
Speaker 3: basically like, why let a war get in the way
Speaker 3: of all the work I've done?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in my research I read that when
Speaker 1: he was asked about this later in his life, his
Speaker 1: rationalization was that it.
Speaker 4: Was just a job.
Speaker 1: He says, quote, I was just working like how a
Speaker 1: baker or a minor works. He also said that he
Speaker 1: didn't expect the occupation to last very long, that he
Speaker 1: viewed his time at Lesois as a temporary assignment basically,
Speaker 1: but he actually wound up working there for four years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds to me like he was being a little,
Speaker 3: you know, willfully naive and kind of burying his head
Speaker 3: in the sand, and he may be wondering what was
Speaker 3: his time at Lasois really like? And did he ever
Speaker 3: pay a price for all that fence sitting? And we
Speaker 3: got the answers, and we're going to tell you all
Speaker 3: about it after we take a quick break.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1: It's part two of our conversation about Tintin and the brilliant,
Speaker 1: controversial author Airja. When we left off, Airja had just
Speaker 1: taken a job at the Nazi collaborationist paper Lessois. So Gabe,
Speaker 1: tell me what happens next.
Speaker 3: Well, as you might guess, j kept drawing comics, and
Speaker 3: the Tintin stories that came out during these years weren't
Speaker 3: suddenly repeating Nazi propaganda or anything like that, but they
Speaker 3: weren't really pushing back against it either. They were almost
Speaker 3: a political j claimed he was uninterested in politics, and
Speaker 3: you know, he wanted to keep Tintin out of what
Speaker 3: he thought was the mess of World War two. But
Speaker 3: looking back, you can't help but wonder how could someone
Speaker 3: stay apolitical when all of these atrocities were happening right
Speaker 3: in front of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in fact, the Airja biographer Pierre Asline called
Speaker 1: Airja's fence sitting around this quote willfully obtuse, which I
Speaker 1: think is a fair assessment. Airj has definitely seemed happy
Speaker 1: to ignore what was going on. In the world and
Speaker 1: what it meant to work at a collaborationist newspaper. And
Speaker 1: even if he professed that he was political, for many
Speaker 1: people this choice was political, right, It's a political act.
Speaker 1: Other Belgians chose not to work at collaborationist papers, so
Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, the decision to work there
Speaker 1: kind of left this real stain on his legacy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, today and back then at the time too. That
Speaker 3: was the case. After Belgium was liberated in nineteen forty four,
Speaker 3: the entire staff at Larssois was fired and anyone who'd
Speaker 3: worked there under the Nazi occupation was banned from working
Speaker 3: all together, and a lot of people were arrested, including Airja.
Speaker 3: But even that doesn't seem to change his view on
Speaker 3: his decision to work at Lesois. His attitude seemed to
Speaker 3: be more stunned than anything. You mean, stunned that he'd
Speaker 3: be punished for his actions or yeah, I mean, he
Speaker 3: never seemed to understand why anyone would think what he
Speaker 3: did was wrong. He thought everyone was overreacting.
Speaker 1: He kind of has this approach earlier, right, like he
Speaker 1: doesn't really apologize and says, you know, it's sort of
Speaker 1: the feeling of the time.
Speaker 3: Right, So what happened did he ever face any consequences?
Speaker 1: He was really lucky. He had friends in high places,
Speaker 1: including some who'd fought in the resistance against the Nazis,
Speaker 1: and one of them was a huge Tinton fan. He'd
Speaker 1: actually been one of the kids. He showed up at
Speaker 1: that stunt we talked about in the last episode where
Speaker 1: you know that tinted actor had come in from the
Speaker 1: Congo at the Brussels train station, so that certainly helped.
Speaker 3: Talk about full circle too.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, anyway, this is super lucky, and this
Speaker 1: guy wanted to start a magazine and he wanted air
Speaker 1: Day to be a part of it. So he uses
Speaker 1: connections to recommend that the case be dropped, and it worked.
Speaker 1: The charges were dismissed, so.
Speaker 3: In the end, Airja walked away pretty much unscathed.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Sounds like it was kind of helped by the fact
Speaker 1: that he was a cartoonist and not a journalist. That's
Speaker 1: kind of the distinction that was made and why the
Speaker 1: case was dropped. But just to put in perspective, there
Speaker 1: were journalists who worked for collaborationist papers who were found guilty.
Speaker 1: Some were sent to Congo to perform hard labor, others
Speaker 1: were killed, and because the punishment was so severe, others
Speaker 1: in Airja's predicament left Belgium altogether to make a new
Speaker 1: life in France, which Airja, being the proud Belgium he was,
Speaker 1: he actually never really considered that, So, long story short,
Speaker 1: his career continued to thrive. He kept publishing comics, and
Speaker 1: as we've learned, he gradually developed a more open minded
Speaker 1: view of the world and also greater appreciation of other cultures.
Speaker 3: So where does all this stand now, Like, what's the
Speaker 3: contemporary read on the books in air Ja? Clearly, people
Speaker 3: all over the world have loved and continue to love Tintin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's still really popular, especially outside the US. That
Speaker 1: being said, if you are offended by Tintin or Erja,
Speaker 1: you know, I totally get it. The lens that I
Speaker 1: think encompasses this well is that Airj was someone who
Speaker 1: put his work before almost anything else, like both personally
Speaker 1: and politically, and often that wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: And he was really loyal to his country, even when
Speaker 1: his country's government made horrible decisions. And while I don't
Speaker 1: think there's an excuse, and of course I obviously wish
Speaker 1: er Jay apologized for all these mistakes.
Speaker 4: He was also limited by the time he lived in
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, which is you know, it's extra compleated. Yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of clearly good things about Tintin
Speaker 3: and er Ja too. They were both flawed characters, but
Speaker 3: they did have an openness to other ideas and other
Speaker 3: people and other cultures, which is really laudable, especially for
Speaker 3: the time Tintin fought for the underdog. He stood up
Speaker 3: for friendship and loyalty. And I do think there's something
Speaker 3: really enduring and you know about that and kind of
Speaker 3: redeeming too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I've obviously been thinking about this a
Speaker 1: lot lately, not just because of these episodes, because I
Speaker 1: think about my own kids. I wanted them to read
Speaker 1: Tintin because it was just like so full of adventure
Speaker 1: and joyous like exploration of the world and friendship. I
Speaker 1: actually read an op ed from the author of viet
Speaker 1: Tan When about this, and it was about the danger
Speaker 1: of banning books in general. But when actually grew up
Speaker 1: reading tinton like I did, and he wanted to share
Speaker 1: these books with his son, and the essence of what
Speaker 1: he says is the Tinton books can be problematic, but
Speaker 1: they're also really engaging and really memorable. He writes about
Speaker 1: how he and his son loved reading these adventures together
Speaker 1: and when they came across racism against non white characters,
Speaker 1: he points out that they talk about it just the
Speaker 1: same way you talk about like Huck Finn or other
Speaker 1: things like that, and the ability to have that conversation
Speaker 1: and a way into that conversation is really important.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm a big fan of classic animation,
Speaker 3: and you run into a lot of the same problems. Right,
Speaker 3: There were really problematic depictions, and you know, does that
Speaker 3: mean that just no one should ever watch these again,
Speaker 3: or that they're artistically bankrupt there's nothing of merit anymore. No,
Speaker 3: of course not. You just have to be a little
Speaker 3: more thoughtful about it, think, right.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's obviously messy. Humans are messy. But I
Speaker 1: also think like for me Tinton, but also other texts
Speaker 1: of that style, other books like they all contributed to
Speaker 1: the feeling of mental class, of part time genius, of
Speaker 1: welcoming people in of exploring It's so threaded through so
Speaker 1: much of the DNA of this show and other shows
Speaker 1: I've done, and worked on. Yeah, So like, it's very
Speaker 1: hard for me to divorce myself from that because it's inspired.
Speaker 4: So much, you know, of my own work.
Speaker 3: You know, there's the artist's intent, and then there's what
Speaker 3: we do with it, right, there's the art itself, and
Speaker 3: then there's what it inspires us to do.
Speaker 1: So well, what is best for this show right now
Speaker 1: is that we take another quick break. But when we
Speaker 1: come back, let's talk about a few of our favorite
Speaker 1: tint In adaptations.
Speaker 2: That sounds great, Welcome back to part time genius.
Speaker 1: Okay, Gabe, it is time to go beyond the books
Speaker 1: and talk about adaptations.
Speaker 4: So why don't you kick this off.
Speaker 3: I'd be happy to so. Between nineteen twenty nine and
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six, Airja wrote a total of twenty three
Speaker 3: Tintin books or albums in twenty four if you include
Speaker 3: Tintin and alf Art, which was only partially finished when
Speaker 3: Airja died in nineteen eighty three. But you know, and
Speaker 3: in the years since then, lots of other artists have
Speaker 3: adapted those stories to different mediums. For instance, Steven Spielberg
Speaker 3: drew from three books written between nineteen forty one and
Speaker 3: nineteen forty four when Air Jay was at Lesoise to
Speaker 3: create his twenty eleven animated blockbuster The Adventures of Tintin,
Speaker 3: starring Jamie Bell as the voice of Tintin and Daniel
Speaker 3: Craig as the villain. But there's another actor I want
Speaker 3: to mention from the film, Carrie Elvis from Robin Hood
Speaker 3: the same and of course the Princess Bride. He's also
Speaker 3: in the movie. It's a small role, but he really
Speaker 3: wanted it and he got it in a pretty unconventional way.
Speaker 1: First of all, I love that Steven Spielberg loved Tintin
Speaker 1: enough to make this movie. To me, is really joyous
Speaker 1: and in the spair of the comment, but so tell
Speaker 1: me about carry Elle was like, how did he sneak
Speaker 1: his way in?
Speaker 3: So apparently Carrie is a huge Tintin fan. One day
Speaker 3: he was at the grocery store and I have to
Speaker 3: imagine this is La, right, because it seems very la
Speaker 3: And who does he see over there in the cereal aisle?
Speaker 1: But Steven Spielberg, Wait, Steven Spielberg eats cereal. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're telling me it himself too, apparently amazing And they'd
Speaker 1: met a couple of weeks earlier and Spielberg had mentioned
Speaker 1: he was doing a Tintin movie, and Carrie's like, I
Speaker 1: love Tintin.
Speaker 3: I have to be in this. Did I mention I
Speaker 3: really love Tintin? And Spielberg was like, yeah, all right,
Speaker 3: we'll see. So anyway, now Carrie sees him, you know,
Speaker 3: rifling through the cheerios or whatever kind of cereal you
Speaker 3: think Spielberg eats, and he's like, this is it. This
Speaker 3: is my chance to seal the deal. So he goes
Speaker 3: up to him and asks him about being in Tintin,
Speaker 3: and apparently Spielberg tells him, I have one part left.
Speaker 3: It's yours.
Speaker 1: I mean, I honestly don't know what the lesson is here,
Speaker 1: like be bold, persevere, shopping in Steven Spielberg's neighborhood. I
Speaker 1: feel like all of these apply here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, it's all of these.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But I like to think that the serial Isle conversation
Speaker 3: was just the first of many conversations these guys would
Speaker 3: have about Tintin. Of course, because Spielberg is also a
Speaker 3: huge fan. The funny thing is, though he'd never heard
Speaker 3: of Tintin until right after Raiders at a Lost Art
Speaker 3: came out in the eighties and a French critic wrote
Speaker 3: a review in which he compared that film to Tintin's Adventures. So,
Speaker 3: you know, being a curious guy, Spielberg decided to check
Speaker 3: out the books, discovered he really liked them and immediately
Speaker 3: was like, hey, this could be a movie.
Speaker 2: Do you know if he talked to J about it?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: He did, Yeah, he said. They spoke on the telephone
Speaker 3: once in nineteen eighty three and they had a plan
Speaker 3: to meet, but unfortunately J died before that could happen.
Speaker 3: Spielberg still negotiated the rights for a movie with his
Speaker 3: estate though. He even started on a screenplay with the
Speaker 3: same writer who worked on Et, but the script didn't
Speaker 3: feel right. Then Spielberg got busy with you know, other stuff,
Speaker 3: and the option dropped. So it took deck aid for
Speaker 3: the project to finally come together.
Speaker 1: I know AIRJ was also a big fan of Spielberg,
Speaker 1: so even though he died way before the movie came out,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was exciting to know that it might
Speaker 1: even happen. Definitely, But speaking of adaptations, do you know
Speaker 1: that Ja also wrote or co wrote two Tintin stage plays.
Speaker 3: I did not know this are these things we can
Speaker 3: go see somewhere, if not on or off Broadway, maybe
Speaker 3: off off, but like off off off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, in my backyard. That would be my
Speaker 2: greatest wish.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, as far as I can tell, the script
Speaker 1: are lost to history. At least those are the rumors
Speaker 1: in the Tintin fan community. But there was like a
Speaker 1: thread that maybe they existed still somewhere, And actually we've
Speaker 1: got this friend Rag. He wrote this book. He is
Speaker 1: for Pterodactyl. He's also a rapper and producer. He produces
Speaker 1: under the name Lush Life. And he, like me, grew
Speaker 1: up in going to Indian in the summers. He became
Speaker 1: a huge Tintin fan and he realized that airj had
Speaker 1: written both scripts in nineteen forty one with help from
Speaker 1: the painter, journalist and writer Jacques von Melquebec, and the
Speaker 1: first one was called Tinton in India The Mystery of
Speaker 1: the Blue Diamond, so based on contemporarieous accounts of its production,
Speaker 1: it basically was like a rehashed plot of Cigars of
Speaker 1: the Pharaoh. It opened in nineteen forty one, ran for
Speaker 1: a little over a week in Brussels and start a
Speaker 1: young woman as Tinton. Because World War two had just
Speaker 1: created this shortage of male actors. But maybe the biggest
Speaker 1: surprise is that it was actually a musical.
Speaker 3: What please tell me? Do we know anything about the song?
Speaker 1: No, at least I don't, but I know Roger actually
Speaker 1: located the script and is trying to rewrite it. But
Speaker 1: airj was apparently really happy with how it came out.
Speaker 1: It got decent reviews despite the short run. And I
Speaker 1: think this rings true for anyone who's ever had anything
Speaker 1: to do with the play, especially like a musical with children.
Speaker 1: This whole thing was a ton of effort to produce,
Speaker 1: and so even though he had seen it as a success,
Speaker 1: he wasn't eager to do another.
Speaker 3: Well you must have made an exception then, right, because
Speaker 3: you said there were two plays.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So later in nineteen forty one there was mister Bullock's
Speaker 1: disappearance or the disappearance of mister Bullock depending on the translator.
Speaker 1: We know even less about this play, except that you
Speaker 1: know they did find a young male to play Tintin,
Speaker 1: and plot wise, it's a whole new story. It's not
Speaker 1: just a rehash of an older book. Tintin travels all
Speaker 1: over the world, from China to Tibet, to Morocco, to
Speaker 1: Argentina and then back home to Brussels, and from what
Speaker 1: I can tell, the reviews were a little less stellar.
Speaker 1: That seems to be the end of Tintin and the
Speaker 1: theater experience, at least as far as air Ja's direct
Speaker 1: involvement with it.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, I figure you're referring to the adaptation of
Speaker 3: Tintin and Tibet that was performed in the UK in
Speaker 3: two thousand and five. Right, It got mostly MIDI it
Speaker 3: did have another run a couple of years later, so
Speaker 3: I don't know. There must be something to it, or
Speaker 3: maybe it's just all that pent up demand for Tintin
Speaker 3: on stage.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean I know Raj and the Tintin
Speaker 1: is stayed are talking and then figuring out how to
Speaker 1: possibly get this play back on in.
Speaker 4: A new form. And as someone who loves Tintin, I would.
Speaker 1: Really really love to see revised for today's times.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what, Mango, if it ever happens, I'll
Speaker 3: buy you a ticket.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we can get in for free,
Speaker 1: but I'll make sure you get in.
Speaker 3: Its sounds good to me. But on that note, I
Speaker 3: think it's time for a fact off all right, this
Speaker 3: is a fun one. So did you know that Ja
Speaker 3: would hide himself in the Tintin books like an early
Speaker 3: iteration of Where's Waldo? It was apparently inspired by Hitchcock's
Speaker 3: idea of breaking the fourth wall and winking at the audience,
Speaker 3: and famously he hid himself in all of his movies too.
Speaker 3: But for example, in King Ottokar's Scepter is dressed as
Speaker 3: a cavalry officer in the royal court. In The Broken Ear,
Speaker 3: he's a museum goer. In The Calculus Affair, he's standing
Speaker 3: with a sketch pad and pen. He goes on and on.
Speaker 4: That is so fun.
Speaker 1: I actually did not know that. Now I've got to
Speaker 1: go back and look for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And in a nod to this, Spielberg has
Speaker 3: a little animated Airja cameo in his Tintin movie too,
Speaker 3: So I look out for that. I love that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've got another one for you.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, a rare Tintin cover illustration was
Speaker 1: sold at auction for nearly three point two million euros
Speaker 1: around three point eight four million dollars, making it the
Speaker 1: world's most expensive comic book art. The art itself is
Speaker 1: actually the original idea for the Blue Lotus, the adventure
Speaker 1: that took place in China, where Airj did a bunch
Speaker 1: of research ahead of time thanks to his friend John.
Speaker 1: Now I've seen pictures of this long lost artwork and
Speaker 1: it is really beautiful. It would have actually made an
Speaker 1: amazing cover, but when Airja showed it to his publisher,
Speaker 1: they said it had too many colors and would be
Speaker 1: too expensive to produce using the technology they had.
Speaker 3: At the time.
Speaker 1: So instead Airja gave the original art, the actual one
Speaker 1: he had painted, to his publisher's seven year old son,
Speaker 1: and it just stuck around in their family for a
Speaker 1: long time.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what's extra crazy about that is that
Speaker 3: Tintin had already set the previous record for the world's
Speaker 3: most expensive comic book art. And I was back in
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen when some original drawings sold for two point
Speaker 3: six five million euros, and there has been other Tintin
Speaker 3: art that's sold for well over a million dollars over
Speaker 3: the years. One reason why these pieces go for such
Speaker 3: high dollar marks is besides you know Tintin's popularity, of course,
Speaker 3: is that Tintin's estate is notoriously strict. It's run by
Speaker 3: Rgey's widow, Fanny and her second husband, a guy named
Speaker 3: Nick Rodwell. He's hard fisted in his approach to dealing
Speaker 3: with Tintin copyright, let's just say that. And in the
Speaker 3: Tintin world he's almost universally hated. He's been described, or
Speaker 3: maybe describes himself as quote the least popular man in Belgium.
Speaker 3: And that's because of you know how often he's litigated
Speaker 3: copyright cases. For example, in twenty twenty one he sued
Speaker 3: a French sculptor for the ninety busts of Tintin he
Speaker 3: had made, and that same year he also sued a
Speaker 3: French painter who had paid to Tintin in the World
Speaker 3: of Edward Hopper, but in a manner Rodwell deemed quote
Speaker 3: mildly erotic. Oh no, yeah. And in two thousand and
Speaker 3: nine a French novelist had his home seized because he
Speaker 3: had reproduced a Tintin drawing in a book for students,
Speaker 3: which had a print run of two hundred copies. So
Speaker 3: I mean he didn't even make a profit off it.
Speaker 3: Rodwell says he's just protecting Airs and Tintin's legacy from
Speaker 3: bad quality spinoffs. That kind of stuff. Can water down
Speaker 3: an artist's legacy after they die, and j himself was
Speaker 3: adamant that he didn't want any Tintin books to come
Speaker 3: out after his death. But repossessing somebody's house because of
Speaker 3: a book for students, Yeah, that's a little over the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Gabe.
Speaker 1: So have you ever thought about the fact that even
Speaker 1: though the Tintin book spanned forty years, Tintin himself was ageless,
Speaker 1: like his appearance never changes.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I hadn't thought about that, but now that you mention it,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, because I brought it off. Well, Lucky
Speaker 1: for you, there are some scientists who also thought about it, or,
Speaker 1: more precisely, a scientist and his two young sons. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, a Canadian professor of medicine named
Speaker 1: Claude Syr published a satirical paper about his efforts to
Speaker 1: figure out why Tintin hadn't aged over the decades, and
Speaker 1: he and his kids went through the books and counted
Speaker 1: the number of times Tintin lost consciousness, which you know
Speaker 1: is a lot. Fifty times. Forty three of those times
Speaker 1: were considered severe. Professor Sear decided that these repeated blows
Speaker 1: to the head had led to growth hormone deficiency and
Speaker 1: because of that also a condition called hyponatotropic hypogonadism, which
Speaker 1: you know is a mouthful but it's.
Speaker 4: A real thing.
Speaker 1: It can lead to delayed or totally missing puberty for
Speaker 1: the people who are affected by it.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: All right, but well here's what I really want to know.
Speaker 3: Did he ever explain snowy? I mean that dog is
Speaker 3: still going strong, he still has puppy energy. Yeas one hundred.
Speaker 1: Years later, that is a fair point. Maybe his kids
Speaker 1: have done to study on this. I'll have to report back, please.
Speaker 3: Do Yeah, keep us posted. All right, So I'm going
Speaker 3: to pivot here, but I was really excited to learn that.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, a new Belgian passport was introduced
Speaker 3: that features illustrations from famous Belgian cartoons and comics in
Speaker 3: general are really beloved over there and considered high art.
Speaker 3: So the passport pages included drawings of famous Belgium cartoon
Speaker 3: characters like Tintin and the Smurfs, and apparently, when UV
Speaker 3: light is shown on the drawings, additional details like facial
Speaker 3: expressions are revealed. And not only is that absolutely delightful,
Speaker 3: but these details also make it a lot harder to counterfeit.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that Belgians just really love comics, so
Speaker 1: staying in the vein of Belgium pride. In twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: Brussels Airlines unveiled in airbus A three twenty named Rackham,
Speaker 1: which refers to the Tintin book read Rackham's Treasure.
Speaker 4: The outside of the.
Speaker 1: Planet is painted to look like the submarine from that book,
Speaker 1: and the cabin inside has pictures of Captain Haddock and Tintin,
Speaker 1: and a of course red Rackham's Treasure is available on
Speaker 1: board for reading well.
Speaker 3: Our final fact is yet another example of how Tintin
Speaker 3: keeps appearing in Belgium today. For the twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: euro Cup, the Belgian soccer team's away kit was inspired
Speaker 3: by you Guessed It our man himself. The players wore
Speaker 3: a uniform based on Tintin's iconic outfit, a light blue
Speaker 3: jersey with a white collar, brown shorts and white sox.
Speaker 2: I know, I was so excited when I saw that.
Speaker 4: I'm obviously a soccer fan and loved but they did that.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's actually one book where Tintin breaks
Speaker 1: from the standard outfit and dresses just a little differently. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, air J published what would be
Speaker 1: the last fully completed Tintin adventure. It was called Tintin
Speaker 1: and the Pickereas and strikingly, while Tintin has the same
Speaker 1: blue shirt, his brown pants are long in this one,
Speaker 1: not short, and on the cover drawing the pants are
Speaker 1: noticeably flared.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it was the seventies, right, so even
Speaker 3: Tintin wore bell bottoms. But a way, Mangel, I'm really
Speaker 3: glad that you convinced us to explore the life and
Speaker 3: times of a cartoon adventurer. So I think you get
Speaker 3: today's trophy. You earned it. And there's actually two trophies,
Speaker 3: one for last time as well.
Speaker 1: Well I'll take them, and I guess I'll share these
Speaker 1: with my fellow tinton fans and Dylan wherever he is.
Speaker 1: That concludes our two part Tintin series. I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. If you did, please share these episodes with
Speaker 1: a friend or follow us on Instagram Blue Sky if
Speaker 1: you have any questions, comments, or just want to tell
Speaker 1: us what your favorite Tinton book is or how you
Speaker 1: feel about this complicated legacy emails at high Geniuses at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's Hi Geniuses at gmail dot com,
Speaker 1: or give us a call at three oh two four
Speaker 1: oh five five nine two five. That's three oh two
Speaker 1: four oh five five nine two five. We are always
Speaker 1: looking to hear from you. This episode, as well as
Speaker 1: Part one, was written by the wonderful of Marissa Brown.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Marissa.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with another new episode,
Speaker 1: but in the meantime from Gabe, Mary, Dylan, Will and myself,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is
Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted
Speaker 1: by Will Pearson and me Mongais Chatikler and researched by
Speaker 1: our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered
Speaker 1: and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from
Speaker 1: Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced for iHeart by
Speaker 1: Katrina Norbel and Ali Perry, with social media support from
Speaker 1: Sasha Gay, trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shoring. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,