WEBVTT - Changing the Retail Industry, with Jane Mosbacher Morris 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.800 Welcome to Made by Women, a new podcast by the 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.760 Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. At a 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.319 moment when businesses face some of the biggest challenges in 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.800 recent history, we bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.600 shared learnings to help you successfully navigate in today's environment. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.159 Every Thursday, Made by Women will showcase the experiences of 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:38.080 legendary women, entrepreneurs, fierce up and comers, and everyday women 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.440 who found success their own way. Consider this your Real 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:47.400 World n b A designed for the new Now. I'm 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.000 Kim Azzarelli and thanks so much for joining us today. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.360 Jane Moss Backer Morris wants the world to think differently 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.279 about the way our goods are, men factored, where they 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.679 come from, and who makes them. Jane's company, To the 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:09.360 Market connects retailers to ethical sources for apparel, accessories, and 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.560 home goods. The products sourced by to the Market are 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.679 sold by Fortune five companies and manufactured by hundreds of 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:21.080 small suppliers from around the world. Now, Jane's background is 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.640 not what you might expect. She worked in the U. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.679 S Department of States Bureau of counter Terrorism and in 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.160 the Secretary's Office of Global Women's Issues. She also worked 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.560 at the McCain Institute for International Leadership as their Director 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:38.000 of Humanitarian Action. So how did Jane's path lead to 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.280 entrepreneurship and founding to the Market Today I talked to 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.119 Jane about her company, her deep belief that consumers can 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.880 create positive change through their purchases, and why in business 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.120 it's possible both to do well and do good. I 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.840 also spoke to Jane about what gives her strength and 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.520 what makes her sweat about running her own business. Enjoy 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:07.160 our Converse station. Jane, thanks so much for joining us. 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.400 We are thrilled to have you on Maade by Women. 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.279 Thank you for having me. So you run an unbelievable 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.720 organization that the whole world should know about. So for 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.280 our listeners, what is to the Market? So to the 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.320 Market is a business with the mission of changing the 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:29.560 way that retail manufacturing is done to empower people and 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:34.600 protect the planet. And what that means in practice is 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.840 we are literally trying to make retail products more ethically 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.760 and more sustainably. That's an awesome mission. And you didn't 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.040 choose a small goal. So you started this um when 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.240 when did you start the business? So we became a 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.880 corporation in six But I had been working on the business, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.000 I mean, gosh for years and years, really just trying 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.600 to understand where there was opportunity pity to create and 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:09.200 sustain jobs, and how I could particularly focus on employing 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:14.000 women and our supply chain in an ethical and scalable way. 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.840 But spent many a year working on it before we 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.040 really started to launch and scale. And did you always 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:23.679 want to be an entrepreneur or was this something that 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.440 came to you later in life. I think I always 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.720 had sort of an entrepreneurial bug. I mean, I thinking 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.880 back as like a girl, I was always really into 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.680 girl scout cookie selling that, you know, I had sort 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:44.160 of that that desire to to hustle. But I would say, um, 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.600 as I became a professional adult, I absolutely did not 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.960 anticipating starting a business. I mean, as you know, I 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.520 started my career in counter terrorism at the U. S. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.600 Department of State, and UM was focused on women in 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.200 national security, but thought I would a in national security 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.080 for years and years to come. So you so you're 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.600 at the State Department, you're doing counter terrorism, you have 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.000 this kind of entrepreneurial bug in you. Did you have 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.080 any experience from retail? So I worked retail in high school, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.680 and honestly, I didn't love it. I thought it was 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.919 really tough. You know, little did I know that I 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:29.279 would be starting a retail based business. So, so tell 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.520 us about the trip you took to India and what 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.640 inspired to the market. So you know, I was out state, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.800 I was focused on women in national security. I started 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:45.440 focusing on broader issues of women and human security, and 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.479 um I ended up after I left the State department 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.600 going to work on labor exploitation, and I ended up 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:59.039 in Calcutta, India and visited these two cooperatives that were 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:04.000 employing both survivors of human trafficking as well as employing 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.400 persons that were vulnerable to trafficking. And I remember being 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.000 so blown away by the business model because they were 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:18.000 employing these women in a dignified way to produce products 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.320 that I thought were beautiful products. But I also loved 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.960 the approach of I'm going to address a social justice issue, 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.200 this idea of fair labor through a business approach, And 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.520 so it planted the seed of like, well, how would 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.760 we leverage retail and all of the buying power that 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:42.120 women have around the world to create a more ethical 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:46.200 supply chain and to create and sustain jobs for communities 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:51.159 like these women who have consistently been overlooked, under represented, 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.560 and not you know, taken seriously in the global market. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.480 That's an amazing idea and a big idea which could 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.799 solve so many problems. So what were the first steps 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.159 to launching something so impactful like that. Well, I had, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.800 you know, these initial cooperatives that I had visited, and 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.520 then I began to think about, well, how many other 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:20.640 ethical suppliers exists like this around the world and how 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.560 scalable is this concept of working with these ethical suppliers 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:31.320 and having them replace the work that's being done by 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:37.039 factories that have questionable environmental and social footprints with these 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.360 ethical suppliers. So I did a lot of research, a 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.760 lot of interviewing both buyers in the United States who 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.560 are making purchasing decisions, as well as traveling and spending 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:55.279 time with these different ethical suppliers and better understanding what 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.279 are their constraints to scaling, why are they strugg willing 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.280 to reach you know, national sales or international sales, and 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.840 what value add can I provide? So what was it 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.680 like to start something like that and what setbacks did 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.680 you face, was there anything that really made you sweat Well. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:21.200 One of the initial challenges we had was a people 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.160 asked me, well, why are you not a nonprofit? And 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.960 my response to them was, this is about creating and 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:39.120 sustaining dignified work, and this is about changing the way 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:45.080 that consumers and businesses are sourcing their products. This isn't 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:51.520 about pity purchases until really having like helping people reframe 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.200 the way they thought about these suppliers, because there was 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.800 also these biases that somehow these suppliers because they weren't 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.720 brading in the massive traditional factories that we as Americans 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.600 tend to think of now as it relates to me manufacturing, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.080 there were these biases that, oh, well, the product surely 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:17.120 can't be as well made or you must have really 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.760 low production capacity. And so I had, you know, this 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.600 uphill battle of having to prove them wrong because they 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.720 were looking for, you know, quality issues or expecting us 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.080 not to be able to hit certain delivery by dates. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.280 And so just changing the way people think about how 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.000 products are made and who they're made by so that 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.360 they feel comfortable with the idea that, of course you 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.120 can source ethically and sustainably and have just as good, 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.079 if not better, of a product than these traditional, massive, 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.040 massive factories that we have sadly become so reliant on. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:59.040 So changing people's mindsets is a really big thing. Uh, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.680 And know, only step one in your business was changing 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.880 people's mindsets. So how did you approach that? I think 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:12.040 it's through just education and then proof of concept, so, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.160 you know, telling them the production capacity that exists. And 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.000 one of the big sort of revelations for me when 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.240 I was trying to decide how I was going to 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.439 engage in job creation and job sustainment was this realization 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.160 that retail production is the second largest economy in the 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:41.160 developing world. Agriculture is one artisan or retail production is too, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.280 and so this is a multibillion dollar business. And so 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:53.119 helping folks understand that the scale of the opportunity was important, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.560 But then just as important, if not more important, was 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.640 then showing them through delivery of the goods, how great 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.760 it looked, and how great the service and the experience was, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:11.160 and how much more impactful their dollar was by by 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.240 making purchases that were better aligned with all of the 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.880 you know, value commitments that they make publicly. When you're 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:25.079 actually aligning your dollar with your values right right now? 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.520 That's that's key. I mean, and it's so true. There's 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.160 so much out there publicly, but are people really really 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.440 taking it to heart, really doing it. I want to 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.439 get into the operations of everything, because what you're doing 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:41.040 is a really complicated logistics issue, and it's a serious 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.959 logistics puzzle. So how did you do it? Well? Um, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:49.760 Luckily I grew up with an extremely organized mother to 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:57.080 me really uh create very very detailed sort of ways 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:01.800 of systematizing my work and my thinking. And so it 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.560 was really a function of creating structure, like what was 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:10.240 our strategy and our structure for identifying these makers? What 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.920 was our strategy and structure for vetting these makers? What 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.200 was going to be the process through which we started 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.280 sending purchase orders to these makers? So I think, you know, 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:27.319 creating this strategy and the structure was hard, but then 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.880 once we have created it, it's it's actually quite smooth. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.280 We have a maker that gets identified, and that could 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.000 be a small artisan group up to a large scale 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.640 fair Trade certified or God's Organic certified factory. If they 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.679 pass our vetting, they then become a part of to 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.600 the market's supplier base and We then tap into that 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.360 supplier base when clients come to us with specific needs, 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.240 and these suppliers then bid on these opportunities to produce 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.160 for our clients, whether that be a large retailer like 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:08.280 a Target, a brand um like a Madewell, or you know, 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.440 even nonprofits like Every Mother Counts. All of these organizations 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:18.400 are interested more and more in sustainability and in ethical manufacturing, 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.520 and they're looking for ways to um leverage their supply 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.319 chain to do good and we are trying to make 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.720 it as easy as possible for them to do so. 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.040 That's incredible if you just think about the kind of 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.160 reach you could have by partnering with those organizations, It's 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.360 it's such a powerful concept. So how did you get 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.760 people to understand the power of their purchases and to 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.400 connect with the people who made these products. This is 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:49.800 an evolving sort of process and we're constantly learning on 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:56.480 how to best articulate the impact. I think originally I 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:02.320 probably was a lot more descriptive around of policy and 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.080 like community impact, and that was really I think a 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.320 reflection of my time having worked in the government and 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.440 in the offer profit space, where I felt like I 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:18.120 wanted to really help people understand the issues in depth. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.840 And what I came to better understand is that actually 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:28.840 I needed to really simplify it for people to be 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.679 able to convey, to to easily process it and convert 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.680 into making change. Otherwise the information was just too overwhelming. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:42.600 So we've really tried to simplify our messaging around even 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.680 saying empower people and protect the planet. I mean that is, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.760 you know, a handful of words, but its years to 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.400 get there. And I always think of Churchill saying, you know, 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.880 I wish I had written a and I'm paraphrasing, but 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.680 I think he said something like I wish I had 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.880 written a shorter letter, but I didn't have enough time. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.240 But you did it so well in your book. You know, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.719 the title of your book by the Change you want 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:11.520 to see? I mean that really, that really says it all, um, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.360 and I think that's really powerful. Did you write the 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.840 book with the goal of trying to educate consumers as 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:21.960 well as uh the suppliers? Totally? I mean, I think 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:29.560 that the book was an opportunity for me to put 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.920 down so many thoughts that I had around why I 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:39.600 think conscious consumerism can be simplified and how I hope 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.840 people think about it, which is this idea of values 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.160 alignment with your purchasing power. And I also really wanted 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.200 people to realize that conscious consumerism doesn't have to be 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:56.520 elitist or only for a specific type of person, or 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.560 that you land on one one place in the political spectrum. 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.720 The idea was that you know, regardless of your values, 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.840 um you spend money, and through the money that you spend, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:14.320 you have an opportunity to advance your values by supporting 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.400 businesses that are aligned with those values. So that could 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.120 be everything from you know, I want to support black 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:27.080 owned businesses too, I'm specifically interested in only buying fair 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.520 trade certified products. I mean, everybody has, you know, things 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.960 that are more important to them than others. It's not 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.200 just for one sort of value set. The intent is 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.520 for everybody to say, well, what's really important to me. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.080 How can I be a part of making change through 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.200 my purchasing power? Because the one thing we all do 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.680 have in common is purchasing. Yeah, right, so I mean 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.120 everybody can make a difference with their with their purchasing power. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.560 I think that's really an important message that you bring 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.600 to the world. But just back to this point that 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:56.480 your social business. I mean, I guess a lot of 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.320 people would say, why don't you want to be a nonprofit? 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.480 And I think you made that point earlier or about 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.280 making the case for doing well and doing good. Uh, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.320 do you think more people are starting to understand the 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.320 value of social businesses totally? I mean, even in like 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.760 the last three years, I've seen such a shift in 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:20.080 the way that people think about social good within the 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.360 business where even you know, several years ago, I think 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.720 people thought that it was a luxury, and more and 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.760 more they're realizing it is a necessity if you want 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.760 to survive and engage with the millennial and Gen Z 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.000 population as well as the broader population. As we collectively 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.240 think differently about the role of the private sector in 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.480 leading and um, you know, having an impact on social good. 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.320 That you will be a dying brand if you do 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:56.360 not consider how your values are intertwined with your operations. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.800 Not that long ago businesses kind of had purpose on 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.200 one side and profit somewhere else. And this idea that 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.199 you could integrate purpose into your value proposition. And I 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.879 think companies are right that will succeed long term will 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.160 be the ones that really know how to give as 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.000 part of their business strategy and and be part of solutions. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.440 You work with probably thousands of women entrepreneurs around the world, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.200 so you kind of are an expert. You're an entrepreneur yourself, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.080 and you work with thousands of women entrepreneurs around the 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.960 world helping them, uh, you know, create a market for 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.960 their for their products. What did nobody tell you about 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.040 running a business or starting a business that you wish 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.960 you had known? Oh? So many things. Probably, I mean 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.120 for women in particular, I think we tend to be 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:47.119 a bit more risk averse. And because we tend to 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.920 be more risk averse, I think we tend to react 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:59.160 differently to rejection, meaning that I had I would say, 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:04.840 pretty thin skin on sort of the rejection test. And 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.159 what I wish someone had told me is that I 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.520 will be rejected on a daily basis. You know, for 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:16.760 anyone who is even starting a nonprofit, you are constantly 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:22.040 pitching and selling your idea to employees, to investors, to donors, 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.720 to the broader public, and you are likely going to 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.240 face pretty consistent rejection if you're doing as much outreach 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.160 as you should be doing. And so that was a 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.920 big lesson for me because to be totally Frank, I 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.879 was used to this sort of formula of if I 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:47.640 work really really hard and I input X, then why 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.720 will be the output? You know, that's so true, and 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.320 part of being an entrepreneur is kind of getting comfortable 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.960 with the word no and not taking as rejection, right, 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.720 and you know, recognizing that that's kind of part of 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.280 everyday life and it's kind of not necessarily personal. I 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.040 guess sometimes personal, but most of the time it's just 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.400 like you said, it's just the nature of of business 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.119 and and starting something, especially when you're starting something like 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.919 you you did, which is really changing the world and 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.159 hasn't been done before in the way you're envisioning it. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.560 So you know, you have to educate people on so 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.280 many levels, and then at the same time you have 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.600 to go through the whole pitch process on every level. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.000 So when you're in that situation and you're getting you know, 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.000 as you said, like no, after no, after no, after no, 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.480 what gives you strength in that moment? I think still 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.480 believing in what I'm doing, which is also why I 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:40.080 recommend anybody who is thinking about starting a business, a nonprofit, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.000 a project within an organization, that you have to be 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:50.600 deeply passionate and convicted about what you're doing for it 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:55.040 to be sustainable and not not sort of environmentally sustainable, 0:19:55.080 --> 0:20:00.640 I mean like sustainable in your life because it is very, 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:06.960 very challenging emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically, Like it is truly 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.399 um will test you in ways that you likely have 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:15.720 never been tested. And when everybody's telling you that your 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.919 idea is crummy as heck, it is that commitment, in 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:25.000 that passion for addressing the problem you're trying to address, 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.679 that will, you know, keep you sort of slugging forward. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.120 I couldn't agree more. But it's worth it. I mean, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.320 it's just so worth it to see your vision comes 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:34.879 to come to life. I mean, have you felt that 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.520 as you've kind of developed this over the past several years. 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.359 I mean, really, the world that's kind of coming in 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.440 your direction, you probably have a lot to do with that. Well, gosh, 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.919 I mean, there have been so many loads over the 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:51.200 course of this business and journey. I mean, I actually 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.479 one of my my next book is I want to 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:59.200 compile like the most hilarious founder fails that I've identified, 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.840 because I've had is like massive fails, and I feel 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.200 like it's so important to share these stories of like 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.359 here's what happened, and you know, and it doesn't have 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.120 to be like my business failed. It can be like 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.320 you know, I have these like epic experiences of like, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.440 you know, delivering goods and just like the worst thing 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.440 on the planet happening. I mean, I remember we were 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:24.879 delivering hearst and I was, um, They're like delivery went 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.119 to the wrong location, and so I had like a 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.679 courier common deliver it and I was helping the courier 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.000 deliver it and literally like the box that was carrying 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.639 their product exploded on the street in New York, like 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.199 near their office. And I remember being like, ah, like 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.679 this is this is um, this is the glamor of 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.960 being an entrepreneur. You just gosh, you luck love the 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.200 heck out of what you're doing because the failure is 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.160 real and it's inevitable, and it's also important, like it's 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.280 an important part of that process. So so UH, and 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.440 there's a lot of pivots. You know, we're in this 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.960 very difficult moment in our country's history and the world's history. Frankly, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.200 and Uh, I had spoken with you a few months back, 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:13.200 um as COVID was becoming a reality of all of 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:19.120 our lives. How did that impact your business model and operations? Well, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:25.240 when when COVID became as real as it is, it 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.320 was clear to my team that there was a PPE 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.560 shortage in the United States. So this is personal protective equipment, 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:39.639 and so I in the team decided that we wanted 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.000 to go out to our suppliers because we have these 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.800 hundreds of suppliers around the world, and wanted to engage 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.120 to see who is capable of making masks and gowns 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.920 because we had expertise in importing, in production UM. And 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.280 so I thought, well, gosh, maybe we can be helpful. 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.399 And it turned out that our suppliers were capable of 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.720 making a lot of this product. And so we started 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:10.040 pitching this PPE product to hospitals and you know, to 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.920 date have delivered over three million units of PPE. That's 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:18.119 incredible three million, did you say, yes? Three million? Yeah? 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.320 And how many businesses are involved with that? Like how 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:25.320 many suppliers? Oh tends? I mean, um, all over the world. 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.560 I mean We've sourced from the United States. We have 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:33.720 Union production, which I'm so proud of UM in New Jersey. 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.240 We have makers in Ghana, in Kenya, in West Bank, 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:44.280 in Bangladesh, in Hong Kong, I mean just really India, 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:52.639 truly all over. And I'm delighted because it's important that 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.600 we have a syndicated supply chain, meaning that we have 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.800 diversity and our suppliers from a risk mitigation and standpoint, 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:04.440 because as everyone I'm sure is familiar with, we've had 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:08.440 these waves of country closures. But I'm also so grateful 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.879 that we were able to carry on the mission of 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:17.520 the business which is too in to partner with UM 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:23.240 suppliers that are are respectful of their employees and UM 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.400 are operating in a better way for for the planet 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.760 and have so much of the money that is being 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.240 spent in this country on this product be channeled to 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.160 job creation and job sustainment for these makers. Well, it's 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:38.359 so incredible that you're able to take your Brownie spark 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.280 and then your state department experience and build something that 0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:44.000 could just impact so many people. It all comes back 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.120 to the Brownies. I'm positive that like that that like 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.000 catalog of like the bike, I could win if I 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.800 sold enough boxes. Like It's very ingrained in my head 0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:58.280 and I think it's so important for women in particular 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:01.880 to learn sales yeah, because this is like really the 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:07.840 chance that we get an opportunity to pitch and to 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:13.200 like have that experience of feeling comfortable like asking of people. Yeah, yeah, 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:15.119 that's so true. I think it kind of ties back 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:18.080 to what you're saying earlier about about you know, getting 0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.240 comfortable with rejection and being comfortable with the world now 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:22.680 because if you can't take no, you won't ask. So 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:24.560 I think if you can just get comfortable with no, 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.119 then you can kind of ask for anything. Totally. Yes. 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.480 So now, how do you envision your business moving forward, UM, 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:34.760 in a world that hopefully is going to be healing 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:39.159 from COVID nineteen. Well, we are planning to continue to 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:44.520 provide PPE as long as it's needed, and I'm happy 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:51.680 that we're also distributing product in countries where we're having 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:54.200 the product be made as well. So we are distributing 0:25:54.920 --> 0:26:01.720 masks in Kenya, in Ghana. UM. We're also doing sort 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.120 of starting to do some donations of masks. We're partnering 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:08.359 with the I r C to to donate masks M 0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:14.600 two refugees in Texas. So there is UM certainly a 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.399 long tail where even if the hospitals are in a 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:21.040 good place, right now, there's still a general public, both 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:23.879 in the United States and abroad, who may be needing 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.800 basic things like a mask, which is sort of a 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:31.120 basic necessity now. But I'm happy that, you know, retail 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:35.480 is also picking up, which is great, And I think 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:41.040 retailers and corporations are beginning to really understand how critical 0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:45.600 it is to have a syndicated supply chain, meaning to 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:50.080 have multiple suppliers being capable of producing a product for 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.520