1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, and as always, we are joined by our 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: super producer. No the politico Brown. Uh No, A hope 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: is he's doing well? I think he's doing just he's 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: got a nod. He's got a nod. So that's a 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: positive nod or a bit of a shrug. As you know, 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: our nicknames or our super producer are often the hints 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: or allusions to the nature of the episode. I kiss 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: for anyone who doesn't read the title who says I 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: just want to plunge in, uh playing this episode. I'm 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: just playing this episode, jumping into the great beyond of 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: the podcasting world. Uh. This is an e so that 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: is heavily political. We're not really taking any sides other 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: than to say that I think we can all agree 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: it is not good to kill people. That's a fairly basic, 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: basic assumption that we're gonna agree with you that, regardless 20 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: of someone's self described political leaning or identification, they can 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: agree with. So Matt with that disclaimer, what are we 22 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: talking about today? We are talking about kind of the 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: the guy that was held up as the boogeyman when 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: I was going through high school and college up until 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: around two thousand eleven. Right, yeah, and I appreciate your 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: use of the phrase boogeyman. We are talking about Osama 27 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: bin Laden and Osama related conspiracies or should I say 28 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: load and related conspiracies. So this figure is shrouded in 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: mystery and opprobrium and controversy even today, as our as 30 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: our audience knows, both inside and outside of the States, 31 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: this is the anniversary or the week anniversary of the 32 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: September eleventh attacks. And just for refresher, what are those how? 33 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: That is when the World Trade Center in New York 34 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: City as well as the Pentagon in Washington, d C. 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: Were attacked and another plane went down in Pennsylvania right 36 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: as spot on. So originally and often we have heard 37 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: that Osama bin Laden was involved with these attacks to 38 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: one degree or another, or associated with them. Very quickly 39 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: after it occurred, there were people on the news mentioning 40 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: this man's name m very quickly and and it was 41 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: thought to be terrorism. If you watch go back and 42 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: watch the tapes, and you know, there are specials on 43 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: every year now that go back through all of the 44 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: footage that occurred. And there are people speculating about terrorism 45 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: almost immediately after it occurred, not not even on the news, 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: just people on the street, right. And there are also, 47 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: of course, and as you've noticed with any large catastrophic 48 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: event in US history, from the attack on Pearl Harbor 49 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: to the assassination of JFK or MLK to this event, 50 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: there are numerous people and groups who disagree with the 51 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: official version of events from the day the from the 52 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: day the planes hit to two thousand eleven when Ben 53 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Laden passes away. And there are also a lot of 54 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: people who are probably angry that we're even talking about 55 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: this right now, um, because we're going to be discussing 56 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: some of the more fringe ideas. But the thing that 57 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: Ben and I want you to know is that we 58 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: are looking at facts that we that can be proven, 59 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: and then also telling you what people believe, and then, I, 60 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: like the show does every week, we just want you 61 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: to think about it and come up with your own 62 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: belief structure around this. And and I'm sorry, I'm gonna 63 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: go ahead and do this because of course we are 64 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: doing this uh live well live for us record when 65 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: you hear it. But I want to do this one 66 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: more time, uh picking up at the end where I 67 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: said leading up to Osama bin Laden, leading up to 68 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, when Osama bin Laden died or did 69 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: he did? He did? He did? He? Uh? So that 70 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: that's a hint to some of the stuff coming up. 71 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: So first we have to start at the beginning. Who 72 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: is Osama bin Laden, Because for such a well known name, 73 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know very much about him 74 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: other than as he said Matt, he as a boogeyman 75 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: from people growing up. Yes, So the man we know 76 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: as Osama bin Laden, who was known in the west 77 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: at least in that way, is actually Osama bin Mohammed 78 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: bin Awad bin Laden. He was born on March tenth, 79 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, in Riyada, Saudi Arabia. His mother was Syrian. 80 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: His father, Mohammed Awad bin Laden, was from South Yemen. 81 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: Uh Osama bin Laden was the seventh son of fifty 82 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters, all told big family Huge. The father 83 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: is a success story. Started impoverished, worked his way up 84 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: to become the owner of the largest construction company in 85 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, and during this time his father became very 86 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: closely the royal family due to his involvement in palace 87 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: construction another you know, royalty related buildings, and I can 88 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: see how that would make them buddy buddy in that regard. 89 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: Um and Osama bin Laden grew up in a strictly 90 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: religious environment. He went to school in Jadah and according 91 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: to some official sources, he only traveled to a couple 92 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: of countries around the Arabian peninsulas Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan. 93 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: And that's, according to these sources, for his entire life, 94 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: that's where he existed. So the reason that we mentioned 95 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: that is that you will often hear stories that he 96 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: secretly went to Switzerland for one reason or another, or 97 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: that he secretly traveled to another country, maybe in the West, 98 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: maybe he went to you know, you'll you'll hear wild stuff, 99 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: or at least maybe a more fair way to say 100 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: it is unsubstantiated stuff. He adopted the beliefs and precepts 101 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: of the month Muslim Brotherhood during his time in school, 102 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: and you probably heard of the Muslim Brotherhood in different 103 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: news reports about events in the Middle East. Yet at 104 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: this time he was not involved in violent or terrorists 105 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: like activities. So to see what changed, we will consult 106 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: an excellent timeline provided to us by the good folks 107 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: at front Line as well as some others, which means, 108 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: of course, this is a timeline of official events, or 109 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: at least proven events. Cast your memory back December twenty six, 110 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a boiling 111 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: point in the proxy war there between Russia and the West. 112 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: Ben Laden leaves his home in Saudi Arabia to join 113 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: the Afghan resistance, the Mujadin. Yeah, and he's about I 114 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: think twenty two at this time, so you know, twenty 115 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: two year old you can imagine. I guess those are 116 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: college age years for us in the West. At least. 117 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: Um he's going out and joining a resistance movement. Now 118 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: we get to nineteen This is when bin Lan officially 119 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: established al Qaeda. This is you've you've heard of them 120 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: many many times. They're an organization of ex Mujahadeen and 121 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: other supporters. So the people who were fighting in Afghanistan 122 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: right and during that interim s eight he did become 123 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: a successful fighter, working his way up from a resistance 124 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: fighter to a guerrilla commander. So when he establishes al Qaeda, 125 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: he was also successful at raising funding, which will we'll 126 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: talk about as well. Uh this, let's let's go through 127 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: just a few of the events that he was tied to. 128 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: Um okay, so real quick. An eighty nine, the Soviets 129 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: pull out of Afghanistan. Bin Lad comes back to Saudi Arabia. 130 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: People love him, he's a hero, but he gets involved 131 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: in movements against the monarchy, which uh, you know doesn't 132 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: doesn't go over well in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. 133 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: He's kicked out, moves back to Afghanistan. Then to stand 134 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: two because at the time stunted allowed any Muslim into 135 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: the country tree without a visa. And then if we 136 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: fast forward a little bit later, uh, a bomb explodes 137 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: in a hotel in Aidan, Yemen. Right, Yeah, this is 138 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: a place where United States troops had been staying. They 139 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: were on route to humanitarian humanitarian mission in Somalia. The 140 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: bomb killed two Austrian tourists and the U. S soldiers 141 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: apparently had already left once once this attack occurred, and 142 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: there were two Yemeni Muslim militants who were apparently trained 143 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan who were injured in the blast as well. 144 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: They they're later arrested and U S intelligence agencies alleged 145 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: this was the first terror attack involving bin Laden and 146 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: his associates, right, And as we go through this, we're 147 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: going to hear more more statements like attacks involving bin 148 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: Laden or he is associated or linked to it. So 149 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: in February twenty six the world trades and bombing occurs. 150 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: Later October of the same year, eighteen US troops are 151 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: killed in Mogadishu, and people are People begin suspecting that 152 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: bin Laden and his followers trained and armed the men 153 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: who killed the troops. They also believe intelligence analysts over 154 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: the years become more and more certain that bin Laden 155 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: isn't just leading terrorist groups. He's financing different training camps, 156 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: training camps in I think Sudan, Northern Sudan. Now, in 157 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: April nineteen ninety four, Saudi Arabia takes note of all 158 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: this stuff and says you're getting out of here. They 159 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: revoked in law and citizenship and they make moves to 160 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: even freeze all of his assets, at least the ones 161 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia because of his support for some of 162 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: these Muslim fundamentalist groups. And uh so he is establishing 163 00:10:53,960 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: through he's establishing more training camps around the Saudio Abian border. 164 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: In August of nineteen, he writes a letter. He writes 165 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: a letter to the King of Saudi Arabia, and he 166 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: calls for a campaign of guerrilla attacks in order to 167 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: drive US forces out of the kingdom. And for the 168 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: next few years, we're going to skip over some of 169 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: the developments, just a quick laundry list. For Saudi men 170 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: accused bombing the Saudi National Guard training center and the 171 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: capitol are beheaded before their execution, they claim to have 172 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: read letters from Ben Lawden Ni. President Clinton signs a 173 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: top secret order that authorizes the CIA to use any 174 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: and all means to destroy the Bin Laden network, as 175 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: this is seen increasingly as a threat to US forces 176 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: or US personnel or citizens abroad. Yeah, they even set 177 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: up a grand jury, a secret grand jury investigation into 178 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: Bin Lawden in August of ninety six. Then later in 179 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: August of that year, Laden's signed an issued declaration of 180 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: jihad where he he basically set out the organizational goals 181 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: of these groups that he had set up UM they 182 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: were to drive US forces from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula, 183 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: overthrow the government of Saudi Arabia, liberate Muslim holy sites, 184 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: and support Islamic revolutionary groups around the world. He also 185 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: in this declares that Saudi's have the right to strike 186 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: at U S troops inside the Persian Gulf. Al right, 187 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: and UH, US backed multinational mercenary force allegedly is formed 188 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: with the aim abducting and killing then Laden Obviously it 189 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: does not work. So then Laden does something uh issuing 190 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: a joint declaration with several other groups where they try 191 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: to form a World Islamic Front. UH. Then let's go 192 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: to nineteen. There's a grand jury investigation of Bin Laden, 193 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: charging him with the conspiracy to attack defense utilities of 194 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: the US. And this is where prosecutors charge that Bin 195 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: Laden heads a terrorist organization called al Qaeda. UH. And 196 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, we can go through some of these dates quick. 197 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: He does interviews with ABC Nightline. UH. He later does 198 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: interviews with Time UH and a second interview with ABC. 199 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: And during this time he is eventually becoming a not 200 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: maybe not public enemy number one, but one of the 201 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: let's say top fifteen for the US when the U. S. 202 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: Attorney's Office files its most complete indictment of Osama bin 203 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: Laden in nineteen at the time the grand jury charges 204 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: the him and eleven other people for conspiring to kill 205 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: American nationals. So this is a real thing, a global 206 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: conspiracy if you will, to UH to fight against or 207 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: to assassinate American nationals or Western nationals. And multiple times 208 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: spin Laan states during his public appearances we could call 209 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: them that that the U S should not be in 210 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: the Holy Land. Yeah. And I noticed something in looking 211 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: at all of this, been that one of Osama bin 212 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: Laan's main targets was the government and the the leadership 213 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: within Saudi Arabia. And it made me think about our 214 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: Petro dollar episode and the deals set up within Saudi 215 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Arabia Arabia with the United States to trade in U 216 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: S dollars. And I don't know, I was interested to 217 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: know maybe Osamavan Lawton is learning about this larger financial 218 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: set up, global financial set up as he's you know, 219 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: in the Mujahadeen and getting older. I'm interested to know 220 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: how much that in moist Well, you also, many conservative 221 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: Muslims object to the Saudi Arabian the Wabbi idea, right, uh, 222 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: and see it as a means of propping up again 223 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: political support for the ruling house of sad Okay. And 224 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: I want to take a second here before we continue, 225 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: because we're talking a lot about terrorist groups that are 226 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: uh Islamic, right, But the truth of the matter is 227 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: that there are numerous terrorist groups and and they're not 228 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: all Islamic, something that mainstream news in the West will 229 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: try to slip past people, But it is true. There 230 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: are Christian terrorist groups, there are Jewish terrorist groups, there 231 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: are Hindi terrorist groups. There are so many groups like that. 232 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: And with as with any other religion, the vast majority 233 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: you were legious practitioner demographic is not composed of violent, 234 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: crazed people, right. It's composed of people who have a 235 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: belief system that to some degree regulates or defines their 236 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: life for the way they interact with the world. And 237 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: that and that's it. And the Islamophobia that creeps into 238 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: the West is entirely disingenuous. You're absolutely right. The extremism 239 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: is very different and should be separated from religion. Right. 240 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: There are two very different things. The extremist ideas of 241 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: any group are not necessarily religious at their core. So 242 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: with that being said, let's go to the official story 243 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: of the death. According to the official narrative of Osama 244 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: bin Laden is killed in a compound on May second, 245 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven in Abbat, bad Kistan, Seal Team six 246 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: invades the compound. They're doing a project called Operation Neptune Spear, 247 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: which was meant to allegedly apprehend Osama bin Laden. They 248 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: used stealth helicopters, one of which Rex and is later taken, 249 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: probably to China. For some reverse engineer accounts different on 250 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: what happened. You will often hear that bin Laden resisted 251 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: or as followers resisted, there was a firefight and he 252 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: was killed. But either way, according to the official story, 253 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: he was killed in the compound and after that they 254 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: transported his body to Afghanistan for identification and it turned 255 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: out that it was him, and it was also earlier 256 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: DNA evidence used to confirm this before they went in, 257 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: and they took him to the U. S. S. Carl Vincent, 258 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: which which is the site where they controversially and allegedly 259 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: gave him a burial. Let's see adhering to Islamic beliefs. Now, 260 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: also let me say let me interrupt myself to make 261 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: that correction. I believe Neptune Spear was a kill or 262 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: apprehend missions, so that means if there was no resistance, 263 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: they would take them alive. Got you now, Ben, Here's 264 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. A lot of people, a lot 265 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: of people don't believe at least part of that story. 266 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: Many people don't believe any of that story, not even 267 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: the part where Osama bin Laden died in two thousand 268 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: and eleven. The they some people even think that the 269 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: entire role of Osama bin Lawden is some kind of 270 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: story that's meant to be told and told and retold, 271 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: but is actually not true. Now, this is going to 272 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: be a huge debate depending on depending on who you 273 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: talk to, either way it goes. But here are some 274 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: of the the big ideas, the big conspiracies that surround 275 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: the life of Osama bin Laden. The first one is 276 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: that Osama bin Laden was actually a CIA operative, that 277 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: that he was you know, when he was working when 278 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: he was fighting with the Mujahadeen. He was actually trained 279 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: by the CIA to uh start and lead groups right. 280 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: So um they believe that Osama bin Laden and his 281 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: groups received funding from Saudi Arabia and the United States, 282 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: and that al Qaeda is actually a part of this 283 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: and is a creation of the CIA. Right. The primary 284 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: crux that debate being whether this was a willful creation 285 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: or an inadvertence creation, where it says, you know, let's 286 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: fight communism by arming the locals and telling them that 287 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: they are uh, they have the religious motivation or are 288 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: there somehow spiritually mandated to fight this war against these invaders. 289 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: What could possibly go wrong? And let's train this guy 290 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: to be a leader, like an excellent leader of these 291 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: guys to fight back in a resistance movement. And on 292 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: CNN you can see a clip from the Larry King 293 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Show where Bandar ben Sultan, one of the diplomats for 294 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, says, uh, in the mid eighties, if you remember, 295 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: we and the United Saudi Arabia and the United States 296 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: were supporting the Mujadin to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. 297 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden came to thank me for my efforts 298 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: to bring the Americans, our friends to help us against 299 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: the atheist, he said, the communist. Isn't that ironic? Larry 300 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: King says, how ironic? In other words, he came to 301 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: thank you for helping bring America to help him. And 302 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: what's strange about this, Well, I guess I should say 303 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: the opposite of strange, what's completely expected. The Central Intelligence 304 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: Agency in the US officials refute this, arguing that they 305 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: only supported native Afghanistan mujadin so not that not in 306 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: any way um bringing foreign fighters in or encouraging them. 307 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: And you can read similar statements from other people involved, 308 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: including the former head of the i s I, Pakistan's 309 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: intelligence agency. There's this other idea that Asama bin Laden 310 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: worked for the US right up to September eleven. A 311 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: person named Sybil Edmonds, who you've heard of before, I'm sure, 312 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: said that the U S outsourced terror operations to al 313 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: Qaeda and the Taliban for years and years and years. Uh. Right, uh. 314 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: And according to some French sources, CIA agents met within 315 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: Laden two months before nine eleven, who was already wanted 316 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: for the bombing of the USS coal at that time, 317 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: in allegedly two days before nine eleven, two days he 318 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: called his step mom and said, in two days you're 319 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: going to your big news and you're not going to 320 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: hear from me for a while. So in other words, Ben, 321 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: it seems as though American forces, the US Department of 322 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: Defense and the CIA had several many opportunities to capture 323 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden, and yet they failed to do so, 324 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: or at least they did not do so, they chose 325 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: not to. Perhaps even even after nine eleven, the U 326 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: s Military intentionally allowed Bin Lauden to evade capture. It 327 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: sounds pretty crazy, right right, And for people who believe 328 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: that the great Game continues, this sort of intentional encouragement 329 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: of instability seems completely plausible. However, of course, you have 330 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: to point out, if we're being fair, that uh, instability 331 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: might be useful to a certain points. Uh, but complete 332 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: anarchy and chaos is not. So that that's the big 333 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: crux of that idea. How involved? If it all, was 334 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden with v C I A. If so, 335 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: what degree of importance did they hold to each other? 336 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: And to what degree was the US somehow participating in 337 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: this proxy war? Was it just training to local Afghanistan mujerdine, 338 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: as the CIA and other officials maintain, or was it 339 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: more active? And that's just one. There's there's another. There's 340 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: another death related belief, and that's that when people claimed 341 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: that Ben Ladden was assassinated in two thousand and eleven, 342 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: it was entirely made up and never happened, and that 343 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden actually died years before in two thousand 344 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: and one. Yes, been some people believe that Osama bin 345 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: Laden actually died ten years prior to his official death 346 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven. They think he died in two 347 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: thousand one. They think it was either from illness from 348 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: a loan, something going wrong with his lungs, or I've 349 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: heard things about kidney problems and having to be on dialysis. 350 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: They also believe that he may have been killed in 351 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: an American bombing. Now, these aren't these aren't I hate 352 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: to say it, but fringe sources that are talking about this, 353 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: these are these aren't nuts. These are government officials. And 354 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: if if they are nuts spent, they are at least 355 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: government officials, right. I think that's pretty fair of you 356 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: to say. We're talking about people like General Tommy Frank's, 357 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: former American military commander for Afghanistan, or former President of Pakistan, 358 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: General Pervez Musharev, who, as we men action on the video, 359 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: you might remember from a strange and awkward interview on 360 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: the Daily Show back when John Stewart was heading a 361 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: personal hero of yours, matt uh them, No, I am 362 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: a big fan um. But the officials, uh, the officials 363 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, these generals, they seem to base 364 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: this speculation, this conclusion on just the amount of bombing 365 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: in the Toura Bora Mountains. So they hadn't actually seen 366 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: a body or anything, at least going to the New 367 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: York Times, and that is right, ladies and gentlemen. The 368 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: New York Times reported on this too back in December 369 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. Another source of the Pakistan Observer 370 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: went on They they quoted a Taliban leader who said 371 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: that as Somabid Lawdon died of quote a serious lung 372 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: complication back in December. Yeah, and they also that Pakistan 373 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: Observer article adds more information and alleged funeral. And of 374 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: course it seems like it's my role in this episode too, 375 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: not my favorite role, but it's got to be done. Uh, 376 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: it's my role in this episode to point out the 377 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: other sides of the story. This is very close to 378 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: wartime propaganda. So some people have doubted this, thinking that 379 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: I s I. Pakistan's intelligence agency supplied purposely misleading information 380 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: with the idea of throwing the US war. When I 381 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: say war machine, I don't mean anything other than an 382 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: enormous and efficient thing. Some people believe that I s 383 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: I Pakistan's intelligence agency purposefully misled uh misled the public, 384 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: with the idea being that if the US forces could 385 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: be convinced that Osama bin Lanham was dead, they might 386 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: be thrown off Bin Laden's trail. And so people who 387 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: believe this idea, I mean, because this is a lot 388 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: to think about. If some and dies in two thousand 389 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: and one, then how could you, even assuming you could 390 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: pull it off by by doing some massive conspiracy and 391 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: cover up for a decade. Why would you do that? 392 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Why would you go to all that trouble? That is 393 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: a tough question to answer, Ben, But it might go 394 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: back to the idea that we sat at the top 395 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: of a boogeyman. I can see it being beneficial on 396 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: either side. So from from Pakistan side wanting, you know, 397 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: wanting to have this this at least he's a kind 398 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: of a leader, an asset for intelligence and for strategy. 399 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: Having this person at least believed to be dead and 400 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: then using him on the inside, I could see that 401 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: being advantageous Inversely, I can see it being advantageous to 402 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: want to make people believe that he is still alive, 403 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: because it creates the specter of the evil that you're 404 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: fighting in all of these places. Right at least, it's 405 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: good for morale for your troops. It's good for even 406 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: the people inside your country or other people that you're 407 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: trying to inspire to fight these wars for you. I 408 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: can imagine it being highly advantageous either way. I see 409 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, people who believe this theory that 410 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: Belton died in two thousand one typically ascribe the motivation 411 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: to things like that. You know that it might be 412 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: for political maneuvering, like the hostage crisis in Iran, that 413 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: it might be due to uh an economically driven desire 414 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: for war to continue because some people do make a 415 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: lot of money off of it. Although that's a that 416 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: seems a little bit far fetched for me, not that 417 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: there would be people who would want work to continue 418 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: so much as that there would need to be one 419 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: person upon whom that decision hinges. I think it's very 420 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: easy to create a situation wherein a war is quote 421 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: unquote necessary. Um, I'm sure I think it's just helpful 422 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: to have an iconic image or name or something that 423 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: can be repeated over and over again. Sure, yeah, that 424 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: begins to serve as sort of an autonomy. Right, So 425 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: there's also a the idea of uncertainty. You wouldn't want 426 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: to report that someone was dead if you didn't really 427 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: think they were dead, because what a coup that is 428 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: to come back from the dead and the public eye. 429 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: So it could just be that people didn't know for sure. 430 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: It could be, you know, that that there was an 431 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: advantage politically speaking for the timeline. So that's that's what 432 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: people who believe he died in two thousand one. I 433 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: actually believe, and I think that Benezier Bhutto may have 434 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: made some public statements about that too before her assassination. Yes, 435 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: I would. If I were you and you have not 436 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: seen this, I would look up Benezier Bhutto Osama bin 437 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: Laden I think maybe died two thousand one. Where she 438 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: is conducting or she is being interviewed, and she says, 439 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: she states at East according to the video, that osamovan 440 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: Land died in two thousand one. But is she just 441 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: referring to this information that was coming out of Pakistan? 442 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: You know. I mean, there are a lot of questions 443 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: and you will read, you can read multiple sources that 444 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: will go either way. Um, and it's tough to figure 445 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: out what's true. They're like, what is she actually referring to? 446 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: And we'd love to hear what you think on this listeners, 447 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: So if if you're hearing something, whether on this point 448 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: or any of the earlier points or later stuff we 449 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: talked about, and you'd like to weigh in, we'd love 450 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: to hear your perspective. Of course, if you are a 451 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: member of a military force, whether in the US and 452 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: Pakistan somewhere else, uh, we'd like to hear perspective. We 453 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: believe it is invaluable. And if you are not in 454 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: the military, of course, we still want to hear from 455 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: you and hear what you have found in the course 456 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: of your delved into this rabbit hole. And speaking of 457 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: rab bit holes, we have come to probably the most 458 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: widely reported in the mainstream media disagreement with the official narrative, 459 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: and it starts with a guy named Seymour Hirsh, legendary 460 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: journalist Seymour Hirsh. Now you might remember this, gentleman. I'm 461 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: sure you probably saw the actual article pop up on Reddit. 462 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: That's how I first came across it. Um. He's a 463 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: guy who wrote about the Myli massacre and the cover 464 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: up in Vietnam. He also wrote about the Abo Grabe 465 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: prisoner abuse. Um. There was an article that blew up 466 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: all over London review of books. He's well known, a 467 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: very well known and I would say in maybe prestigious writer. 468 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: He's somebody who was held up. Seymour Hirsh, I believe, 469 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: is somebody who was held up as being an authority 470 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of places. Well, he's gone through a 471 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: cycle of being derided and then lauded after you know, 472 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: enough time passes. He says that the raid did. It 473 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: happened that night on May second, two thousand and eleven. 474 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: It just didn't go down the way people think. The 475 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: US official position is that the I, S I and 476 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: the top Grass in Pentagon had no idea, somehow had 477 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: no idea that Osama bin Laden was living in that 478 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: compound all along. They did what they just they've thought, 479 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: which is UM very similar to very similar to Hitler 480 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: surviving World War two and then Parliament finding out that 481 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: he had a flat somewhere in London. So this is 482 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: what Hersch says happens happened. He said, a walk in 483 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: asset alerted the CIA. A walk in asset. It is 484 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: a very difficult proposition for the CIA because walkin asset 485 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: could easily be a double agent or someone who is 486 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: sincere but was misled. And we're literally saying a walk 487 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: in asset this is this is a person who walks 488 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: into an official place and says, hey, I have information 489 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: I want to share with you. Right walks into the 490 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: embassy and says I want to talk with someone, and 491 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're learning a lot more about 492 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: that consular attache or the person who's the head of 493 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: janitorial services turns out to have a couple of extra 494 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: job duties of which were not aware. So after this 495 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: asset alerts the CIA and they managed to verify the information, 496 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: Herst says that the Pakistani and American government struck a 497 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: deal and that they would stage this raid. So the 498 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,479 Speaker 1: Pakistan was going to give up, give up in Laden, 499 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: and they were going to make it seem as though 500 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: it were unilateral action on the part of the US. 501 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: One thing I just really quickly want to go back 502 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: to I was interested in the reasons. If this were true, 503 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: why in of heck would Pakistan if they knew that 504 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: he was there, to keep him there. And what what 505 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: I seem to find is that it was some kind 506 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: of like, hey, we've got Osama bin Lawden u jihadist 507 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: groups or the groups that want to, you know, overthrow 508 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: governments and create havoc. We've got this guy. We're protecting him. 509 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: You don't have to you know, it's okay, you don't 510 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: have to hurt us. However, if they were keeping it secret, 511 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be telling anybody that, right, so it would 512 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: only be it was Sama bin Lawden's connections. I guess 513 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: to say, hey, don't attack Pakistan. I don't know. I 514 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: was just trying to wrap my head around the reasoning 515 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: behind it. I mean, it's a it's a heck of 516 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: a poker chip. Yeah, I mean, to be crass about it. 517 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: It's also it's also quite possible that at this point 518 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: in Lawden had little to know actual control over over 519 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: the situation. Right, so a lot of you'll you'll hear 520 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: people disagree about the agree of influencer control he had. 521 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: Was he just releasing tapes saying continue on, carry on, 522 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: My wayward son or was he was he instead, um, 523 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, actively plotting things and telling people show up 524 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: on this day at this time, meet this guy and 525 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: plan the attack from there. And if so, to what degree. 526 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: The problem is that a lot of this stuff remains classified. 527 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: We can tell you about some things that were allegedly declassified, 528 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: which will do in a little bit. Here's one of 529 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: the here's the next series of things that Hers says 530 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: that lead other journalists to attack him and say that 531 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: he was a quote unquote conspiracy theorist meaning you know, 532 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: meaning as an insult, as a don't pay attention to 533 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: this guy when terminating cliche right when you think of him, 534 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: think of reptilian hybrids or whatever. So uh. He Her 535 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: says bin Lad was never meant to survive the raid. 536 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be killed, and that he also 537 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: been laden, that is, did not receive an Islamic burial 538 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: at sea, did not receive a burial at sea at all. 539 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: That this was a fabrication. A lot of the body 540 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: was riddled with bullets, uh, and some pieces were thrown 541 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: out of the helicopter as they flew to Afghanistan, and 542 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: one consultant, one anonymous source told Hrsch that the CIA 543 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: took the body once the remains landed in that country. 544 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: And all of this leads us to the the next thing. 545 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: This is something that I am very interested in. This 546 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: is the This is relating to the audio and visual 547 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: evidence of Osama bin Laden speaking into a camera, or 548 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: being interviewed on camera, or talking into a mic and 549 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 1: giving orders and or um, I guess just rallying the troops. UM. 550 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: There was a lot of media that was created over 551 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: the years by Osama bin Laden, or allegedly by Osama 552 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: bin Laden, because a lot of people believe that some 553 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: of the videos that you may remember, some of the 554 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: iconic ones, were actually not Osama bin Laden. One of 555 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: the true the things that we can definitely point to 556 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: as hey, this is this is absolutely fact, is that 557 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: they're German experts. Uh. Looked at a bin Laden confession 558 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: video from I think it was, was it two thousand 559 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: one or two thousand two, think it's two thousand one, um, 560 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: where they were saying that the video was itself incorrectly translated. Um. 561 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,479 Speaker 1: They're not disputing that it was actually Osama bin Laden, 562 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: but they were saying that it was perhaps purposefully uh 563 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: not translated correctly. So in that case they're saying that 564 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: it was him. Uh, it was. The video is one 565 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: where he's in a circle of followers. People had called 566 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: it a quote unquote damning admission of guilt. But according 567 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: to uh, according to the German experts there the tapes 568 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: tampered with contains translation errors, and this is this is 569 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: the one that is supposedly him saying yes eleven, we 570 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: did nine eleven. Basically, the the the the errors that 571 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: they're mentioning you can read about in more detail if 572 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: you just search for German experts. I think it came 573 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: under Spiegel German experts Sabin Laden confession incorrectly translated, and 574 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: you'll find it and you can find the discussion about it. 575 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: Um I would say, if you want to play a 576 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: dangerous game and you do not uh, do not yourself 577 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: speak German, you can always put your faith in Google 578 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: Translate and the best. Uh. So, there's another guy named 579 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 1: Neil from hacked or factor who believes that a different, 580 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: uh different tape of Osama bin Laden was manufactured from 581 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: various earlier audio visual appearances. And the person who says 582 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: that this was such a compilation is a fellow named 583 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: Neil Crowitz, a digital image forensics expert. He looked at 584 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: the tape from September seven, two thousand seven, and said 585 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: it was full of visual and audio splices, not just that, 586 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: but low quality and it was a likely fake. And 587 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: then there's also a I think it's a two thousand 588 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: two audio tape that was attributed allegedly to beIN Lawdon. Um, 589 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: there's some there's groups with scientists there that we're saying 590 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: this is fake, it's not actually Osama bin Lawden. And 591 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: there's a Guardian article that you can read. Um, you 592 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: might be able to search two thousand to al Qaeda 593 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: UH tape perhaps or if you'll be able to find it, Yeah, 594 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: and we can tell you a little bit about it. 595 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: So there is a thing called the Institute of Linguistics 596 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: and Phonetics in Paris and UH they found that based 597 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: on the phonetic testing, the al Jazeera tape was genuine. 598 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: This this tape was delivered to Al Jazeera in two 599 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: thousand two, is Matt said. American experts also thought it 600 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: was been laden, but the quality of the tape is 601 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: pretty poor, so people aren't completely sure. But researchers at 602 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: a place called the dow Mole Institute for Perceptual Artificial 603 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: Intelligence believe the message was recorded by someone else. They 604 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: built a computer model of Osama bin Laden's voice, and 605 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: they based it on an hour of actual recordings and 606 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: then using voice recognition systems that they were that were 607 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: being developed for banking security. These Swiss scientists tested that 608 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: uh synthetic model or that creative model against twenty known 609 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: recordings of the actual bin Laden system correctly identified his 610 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: voice in nineteen of them, and that means there's a 611 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: five percent risk of error in their conclusion that the 612 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: latest tape was a fake. Mm hmm. So it You know, 613 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,439 Speaker 1: it's a little different too, because it's not a bunch 614 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: of people listening to it and then mapping out something. 615 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: It picks up things that the human or the human 616 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: ear probably doesn't record. Now Here is the really weird thing, 617 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: you guys, because they're they're all kinds of theories out 618 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: there about videos that were oslaved Laton impersonators. Oh man, 619 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: you'll hear people writing online or just see people writing online. 620 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: Man Osmolt looks really different in two thousand seven than 621 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: he did in two thousand one or two thousand six 622 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: or even you know, the latest later later videos. Um 623 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: that his appearance seems to change drastically over all of 624 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: these videos. Um. Well, here's the thing, the CIA actually did. Uh. 625 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: At least they had the idea to create a propaganda 626 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: video of Osama bin Laden um. And according to Jeff Stein, 627 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: they actually did create it. Um, at least according to 628 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: the people that he spoke to. Propaganda video. Correct. Yes, 629 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go to the article that Jeff Stein 630 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: wrote for. It's a blog called Spy Talk that he 631 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: wrote for UM Washington Post. He's speaking it's called CIA 632 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: units wacky idea depict Saddam as gay. This was written 633 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, in May specifically, and he's 634 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,399 Speaker 1: talking about the Iraq Operations Group and they were kicking 635 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: around ideas to like ways to discredit Saddam Hussein, to 636 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: produce videos that would make Sam look really bad. Uh. 637 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: They would be grainy looking video has perhaps taken from 638 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: a cell phone or from just a really low quality 639 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: camera that would not actually be sit on doing compromising 640 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: things like making They were talking about making a sex tape, 641 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: possibly with a teenage boy, um, and then flooding a 642 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: rock with the videos. They also talked about making a 643 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: fake television program with fake news bulletins talking about how 644 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: Snam Mussein was going to step down and he was 645 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 1: going to have his son come into power. Um So, 646 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: then about halfway down the article he talks about how 647 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: the agency I guess he's referring to the CIA here. Uh, 648 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,839 Speaker 1: they did make a video purporting to show Osama bin 649 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: Laden and his cronies sitting around the campfire swinging bottles 650 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys. One of 651 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: the former CIA officers are called chuckling at the memory. Uh, 652 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: that's a that's a little strange to me that they 653 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: even had that idea, although I can see I can 654 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: see why that would be maybe a strategic move. It 655 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: doesn't require any guns right at that point, It doesn't 656 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: require any assets going in. It just you'd make some 657 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: videos and then send them around. I think a lot 658 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: of people wouldn't believe that though, primarily for the consumption 659 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: of alcohol. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, right, 660 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,479 Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in brainstorming, So I'm sure this 661 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: idea is just the tip of the propaganda iceberg that 662 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: we are hearing about. There is one other conspiracy that 663 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: we should mention about Osama bin Laden that a lot 664 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: of people in the West might not have heard, but 665 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: it's it's fairly it has been fairly popular in the 666 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: past in some other countries, and that is the idea 667 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: that Osama bin Laden, like Elvis Tupac, Kurt Cobain or 668 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: Jim Morrison, is somewhere somehow, Oh, Michael Jackson as well, 669 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: alive and just hasn't been apprehended, will return to fight 670 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: another day. Uh. This this theory, for you know, for 671 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people, seems like, well, how how plausible 672 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: is it? Why would he? Why would someone do all 673 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: this stuff and then disappear right to what end? And 674 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like bin Laden would be the kind 675 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: of person who would just disappear without continuing some sort 676 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: of fight. But I feel like it's important for us 677 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: to note that. And with that, those are some of 678 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: the more once where we're using the video Matt persistent 679 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories regarding Osama bin Laden, both as the career 680 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: and terrorism, as well as his death at the hands 681 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: of Seal Team six or in two thousand one from 682 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: bombing by US forces from Marfan syndrome from lung complications, 683 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: et cetera. And I would love to hear from someone 684 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: who knows more, or has some has some proof, or 685 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: has something entirely different. But wait, speaking hearing, do you 686 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: do you hear that? There's just am I having a stroke? 687 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: Or is it? I'm pretty sure it's a stroke? The nope, 688 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: there it is? Well that can only mean one thing. 689 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: When are you sure you're not having a stroke? Oh wait, 690 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: do you know? Maybe is this my new death experience 691 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: talking to you right now? You've got a little twitch 692 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: going on that either worried about you? It's been a 693 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: rough week. I'm worried about me too. Then who are 694 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: you talking to? What's that? I didn't say anything? Oh god, 695 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: I smell toast. I smell bitter almonds. All right, Well, 696 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,720 Speaker 1: I'm not having a stroke, Matt, You're not null? You good? 697 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm having some kind of event, but I don't know 698 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: if it's a stroke? All right? You want a soldier 699 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: to true definitely, So so you know it's up to you. 700 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,360 Speaker 1: Do you want to you want to talk about this episode? 701 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: You get something different on your mind. You know, I've 702 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: always got things floating around, man. But if you if 703 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: you want to you want to keep this going, feel free. 704 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: I kind of want to know just what's on your mind. U. 705 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: My exploded car largely, Um, that's you know, a little 706 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: personal for the podcast. Probably no, no, no, well we 707 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: should we should say it wasn't when we say explosion, 708 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't a car bomb. It was not a nor bomb. No, 709 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,800 Speaker 1: it was just it's time to die. Is it official? Now, 710 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: it's official, It's very official. Yeah, it's dead car, dead car. Well, 711 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: it's cool. Let's look to the future, let's do what 712 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,399 Speaker 1: what are you planning on doing for transportation? Um? Well, 713 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: in the short term, I have a very dear friend 714 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: who has an extra car. Do you let me use 715 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: so I don't have to make a snap decision and 716 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: you know, buy something random just to have something. So 717 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: that's good. So I'm feeling pretty good about that. But 718 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: just you know, in general, it's just a little bit 719 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,319 Speaker 1: of a downer. Sureman, I liked that car a lot 720 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: and I was only in it a couple of times. Yeah, 721 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: that you know of. Oh god, sorry, it's seen. It's 722 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: time in the sun. Oh man, I feel like there 723 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: there should be a good Night's Sweet Prince, Goodbye to 724 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 1: a car song. We could play I don't know motoring. Yeah, sure, 725 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: so well we do have another up like uplifting event 726 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: we could talk about. Nat Um. NAT got a lot 727 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: of email and tweets about the earlier announcement from last week. Yeah. 728 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,720 Speaker 1: There there is several really lovely emails that we've received 729 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: so far. Um. It does feel weird that you're reading 730 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: them to Ben. I forget something like, oh man, Ben's 731 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: having to read this advice about my kids. Sorry, dude, 732 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: Oh no, it only makes sense. I don't feel like 733 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: it's my place to respond. Oh no, you're you should 734 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: not respond to Diana and I are actually going to 735 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,319 Speaker 1: go through and respond to them in our adventures for 736 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,799 Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks in your own time, because 737 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,319 Speaker 1: there are there are a couple that are fantastic, like 738 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: so much more information than I could have ever asked 739 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: for helpful information. Catch people up on what what you 740 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: asked for last last weeks in case they don't know. Well, 741 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 1: I was basically like, hey, there's a baby coming, I'm scared. 742 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 1: Help That's what That's what I said. And I we 743 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,399 Speaker 1: got some messages from people who you know, have had 744 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: experience with children, and some of the best stuff was 745 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: just how to how to cope with your relationship, like 746 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: you're my relationship with my wife while we are trying 747 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: to take care of this baby and we're both terrified 748 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: and stressed out and lacking sleep. No, you have a 749 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: kid as well. Did you give any advice to Matt? 750 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 1: We have talks, you know, and I don't tweet them 751 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 1: at him or or send them to him via email, 752 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: but you know, occasionally everyone into each other in the 753 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: hall and have a little moments where we talk about 754 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,320 Speaker 1: child wearing stuff. How old your daughter? She's six? Six? 755 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: Good age. I feel like kids when they're when before 756 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: they get to the double digits, there's this age where 757 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: you and I have talked about this off air, there's 758 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 1: this age where they just seem so much more intelligent 759 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 1: than adults. I thought you were guys, didn't they actually are? No, 760 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: you could say that about some adults, perhaps myself included, 761 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: So I don't feel bad saying that. Yeah, my kids 762 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,240 Speaker 1: creepy smart. She's like the girl in the Bad Seed. 763 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm afraid she's gonna push me down the stairs. 764 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: And I'm not looking at I'm kidding. She's she's really smart. 765 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: She is, she is, but again. I just that there's 766 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 1: always something going on in there, and I'm always not 767 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm not always a hundred percent aware of what it is, 768 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: so I have to bring something up. Really fascist we're 769 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 1: talking about kids, So I I went to Kroger the 770 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: other day. I think already told you about this, but 771 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I went to Kroger the other day to 772 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: get some food. We're stalking up on frozen things so 773 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,879 Speaker 1: that we can just make them really easily when we're 774 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: both having downtime. And when I was being checked out, 775 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 1: it was a twenty year old woman who was actually 776 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: checking me out in an eighteen year old woman who 777 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,320 Speaker 1: was doing the bagging, and they were having When I 778 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: walked up, they were having a long conversation about kids 779 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: these days. Uh, they're always on their cell phones. They 780 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: got no respect. I mean it was. It was a 781 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: crazy conversation for very young people to be having, and 782 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: specifically they were discussing these kids. I mean no, they said, oh, man, 783 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,279 Speaker 1: I didn't get my cell phone until I was in 784 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,800 Speaker 1: middle school. And I just went, oh wow, yeah, I 785 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: don't think it was that even beyond guys. I just couldn't. 786 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 1: I just it was so funny to me to hear 787 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,640 Speaker 1: that happening already, and I was trying to imagine what 788 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,320 Speaker 1: your daughter and my son are gonna be. Like. Yeah, 789 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,439 Speaker 1: it's weird with her because I mean, she's really good 790 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,359 Speaker 1: at operating those devices. I don't let her mess with them, 791 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 1: like all the time. But she likes to play Minecraft, 792 00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: and I had Minecraft on my phone, so I let 793 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 1: her us with that. But and she'll occasionally I'll text 794 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: her mom and I'll get a text back that's clearly her, 795 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,840 Speaker 1: so she gets it. But you know, she doesn't have 796 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,319 Speaker 1: her own phone or anything, obviously, but she knows how 797 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,360 Speaker 1: to work that stuff. She knows how to send pictures, 798 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: she knows, she knows how to take selfies. There was 799 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: one time where she changed my Facebook profile pictures secretly 800 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: to picture of her, Like I said, creep creepy, you 801 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: gotta nip this in the butt. That that's pretty. That's 802 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,640 Speaker 1: pretty impressive. Yeah, And I guess if we if we 803 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 1: had to speculate, there are a few things that we 804 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: could think children in the future would look back on 805 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: as ridiculous or I can't believe they did that kind 806 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,760 Speaker 1: of antiquated things. And one of the biggest in my opinion, 807 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,399 Speaker 1: might be having to use your hands to interface with electronics. Yeah, 808 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 1: interface anything with your manually. That seems like, why would 809 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: you do that? Remember that seeing him back to the 810 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: future to where Marty mcflies using the shoot him Up 811 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: arcade game and the kids go, you have to use 812 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,239 Speaker 1: your hands? Yeah, I ever understood that joke when I 813 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,440 Speaker 1: was younger, and then like now, it's just so obvious. 814 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,359 Speaker 1: We're all going to have implants. It's on the way, guys. Yeah, 815 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: you can get Google in your head for free as 816 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: long as you listen to the advertisements that play in 817 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 1: your mind like you're hearing voices. You just have to 818 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,320 Speaker 1: think that you agree to the contract. You don't actually 819 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 1: have to sign anything. You just go yep, just just 820 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,399 Speaker 1: the sub vocalize nod uh. Well, that sounds like an 821 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 1: episode for another day Again, we would would love to 822 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,239 Speaker 1: hear from everybody with your opinions on the death of 823 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,799 Speaker 1: Osama bin Lan. Do you believe the official narrative? Do 824 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,239 Speaker 1: you think something else happened? And if so what You 825 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. 826 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 1: You can check out the earlier episodes we alluded to 827 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,680 Speaker 1: on our website as well as our YouTube channel. And 828 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: our best suggestions come from listeners. If you have a suggestion, 829 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you, Although it can take 830 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,600 Speaker 1: us a while to uh, you can take us a 831 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,360 Speaker 1: while to get back to them. I'm thinking in particular, 832 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:17,120 Speaker 1: they really excellent letter we received on allegations of vote 833 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:22,359 Speaker 1: rigging in the Scotland in Scotland's independence referendum. All to say, 834 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,319 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us directly, you 835 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,800 Speaker 1: can do so. We are conspiracy at how stuff works 836 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:39,120 Speaker 1: dot com. From one on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, 837 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: visit YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also 838 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,040 Speaker 1: get in touch on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.