Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It
Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen,
Speaker 1: and this is at Landia. So Laura and I have
Speaker 1: been working in advertising and marketing for what seems like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like how many years, come on, twenty
Speaker 1: five years? Maybe that's aging us. I'm all there you are,
Speaker 1: But wings, Alexa and I started this show because we
Speaker 1: would have long nights of talking about what was happening
Speaker 1: in the industry. Like our significant others are ready to
Speaker 1: leave us a long night, we all went to bed together,
Speaker 1: all went to bed together. It was a little strange, look,
Speaker 1: I mean, Landy was really add because over the course
Speaker 1: of the years we've worked together, we've been a part
Speaker 1: of some amazing projects. I mean, some truly best in
Speaker 1: class work that has in some instances redefined revived and
Speaker 1: reshaped the industry. And I think, you know, along the Whylox,
Speaker 1: I mean, we've met some fascinating people, We've developed some
Speaker 1: kick ass work, amazing relationships, amazing relationships, and I think
Speaker 1: what we've decided is that the industry oftentimes chases headlines
Speaker 1: or rehashes the same thing over and over again, just
Speaker 1: from a different perspective. And what we really wanted to
Speaker 1: do is dig in a little bit again and talk
Speaker 1: about the things in a different way. Talk to people
Speaker 1: who you may not know, but you should know, definitely
Speaker 1: should know the people who are changing the way things
Speaker 1: are gonna look in the future, and they're totally shaping
Speaker 1: the way we think about brands, the way we think
Speaker 1: about technology, the way we think about media and future. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I think what's super important about this platform is
Speaker 1: we wanted to create a space that people can be
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation um and essentially some thing.
Speaker 1: If you were sitting on our couch and having one
Speaker 1: of our favorites by see Margarita's, this would be natural. Yeah,
Speaker 1: welcome to Atlandia. Welcome to Atlandia. We're excited to have you,
Speaker 1: so we're super excited. Later on We've got two super
Speaker 1: kick ass guests, Bank Lee from Lenny Letter and Jake
Speaker 1: Horoetz from Mike. But first we're going to dive into
Speaker 1: our favorite part of the show, in the Feed, And
Speaker 1: this segment is really meant to kind of get in
Speaker 1: and talk about some of the things that are hot
Speaker 1: and advertising and marketing, all of the things that are
Speaker 1: keeping us up at night, and most importantly UM kind
Speaker 1: of talk about why these things matter. Yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: not like necessarily like in the Feed they just crossed
Speaker 1: your radar their headlines, it's like this is what's crossing
Speaker 1: our radar or like what we're obsessing over? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the most fascinating things that
Speaker 1: we've been texting about lately is the did you just
Speaker 1: see what happened on SNL? Everybody's doing it and I
Speaker 1: mean they're on a twenty year ratings high. My mother
Speaker 1: was talking about cold opens we should be talking about.
Speaker 1: But I think what's what's fascinating is there's this whole
Speaker 1: cultural context UM in media that's really important right now.
Speaker 1: And what I'm super excited to talk to our guests
Speaker 1: about UM later in the show is this idea of
Speaker 1: online meeting the offline and SNL is truly blurring the
Speaker 1: line um, so to speak. And I think it's just
Speaker 1: fascinating how they've picked up the cultural context. I mean,
Speaker 1: this news cycle was made to revive SNL. If you're
Speaker 1: sitting in Laura Michael's chair, yeah, I would say that
Speaker 1: that's totally true. I would you remember when you and
Speaker 1: I went to Malcolm gladwhile he did his final episode
Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, and it was all about and like,
Speaker 1: how there's actually this death of satire, that satire isn't
Speaker 1: this thing that it used to be because satire deals
Speaker 1: with these really painfully real topics. I think SNL has
Speaker 1: come back. Malcolm's issue was he felt that Tina Fe
Speaker 1: and some of the um acting that happened on SNL
Speaker 1: during the Sarah Palin run basically copped out. They were
Speaker 1: focusing like her glasses and her where she got the
Speaker 1: accent inspiration from. And he was like, bullshit. You had
Speaker 1: a responsibility as a public figure to call it out,
Speaker 1: poke holes and say I'm not getting up here and
Speaker 1: putting on this. I can't even do the accent from
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I can't do the accent. But but the
Speaker 1: but the reality is like getting up here and poking fun.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, there is an underlying message here where
Speaker 1: I think SNL this year is killing nailing it. They're
Speaker 1: killing it. And I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: again brands can stand to learn about UM is authenticity
Speaker 1: and this idea that you have to behave consistently. And
Speaker 1: that's from publisher to brand to anyone out there who's
Speaker 1: has a message that they believe in. You can't do
Speaker 1: it once. You gotta keeping what's important. Like SNL is
Speaker 1: leaning into satire. Obviously that's what they do UM. But
Speaker 1: I think there's never been a more important time for creators,
Speaker 1: for influencers UM to really corral or I guess artists
Speaker 1: UM and and own their voice. And it's not trying
Speaker 1: to play Kate too trends UM or you know what's
Speaker 1: in the news feed UM in terms of headlines, but
Speaker 1: it's truly understanding what role do we play in the conversation.
Speaker 1: How do we add value versus adding another blaring sound. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's it's like you're no longer
Speaker 1: just a seat at the table, You're a voice in
Speaker 1: the conversation. I love that. Well anyway, I think today
Speaker 1: is going to be an awesome show. So excited to
Speaker 1: have Ben Cooley, CEO of Lenny Letter, and Jack Barwis,
Speaker 1: who's doing some sick interviews. I mean, the guy has
Speaker 1: interviewed everybody from just got off a hot piece with
Speaker 1: Bill Gates, and just super excited to have Jake editor
Speaker 1: large at Mike. So we'll be right back. So we're
Speaker 1: really excited tonight to have to really relevant guests. Jake Horowitz,
Speaker 1: I will let you introduce yourself. Well, I'm happy to
Speaker 1: be here. Thank you. I'm the co founder and editor
Speaker 1: a large of Mike, which is the leading news site
Speaker 1: for the millennials. Yeah, we have Ben Cooley here, who
Speaker 1: is the CEO of Lenny Letter. Um, Ben, why didn't
Speaker 1: you tell everybody your backstory on Lenny and and why
Speaker 1: you're there? Really, you're really putting me on the spot.
Speaker 1: My name is Ben Cooley. I am the CEO of
Speaker 1: Lenny A. I like to call it a feminist media conglomerate. Conglomerate.
Speaker 1: That's right, we'll have to talk about that more. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm here from. Are you conglomerating media generally? Well,
Speaker 1: thank you guys both so much for being here on Atlantia.
Speaker 1: I think we're super excited to talk to you. We
Speaker 1: we truly feel that your platforms, UM are super important. Jake,
Speaker 1: you just had a fascinating interview with Bill Gates, and
Speaker 1: I thought some of his comments around, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: the role of media companies and really tech companies actually
Speaker 1: and what they play in fake news. Um. He doesn't
Speaker 1: have the solution, but he knows that they need to
Speaker 1: come up with one. Can you talk to us a
Speaker 1: little about you know, I think the industry face is
Speaker 1: a big challenge. Um. We're living in a time that
Speaker 1: we've never seen and for the last two years, reporters
Speaker 1: have grappled with how to cover Trump. Um. You know.
Speaker 1: The funny thing about the word fake news is it's
Speaker 1: being used on both sides of the aisle, right, So
Speaker 1: fake news is now being used by President Trump to
Speaker 1: label any story written by a journalist who he doesn't
Speaker 1: think captures him and that he doesn't agree with, just
Speaker 1: as much as it's being used, um by people on
Speaker 1: the other side of the aisle pointing out worries that
Speaker 1: are just plain fake and not factual. So it's a
Speaker 1: sort of act they're actually fati written by in my
Speaker 1: opinion written by somebody in you know, Eastern Europe, flooding
Speaker 1: somebody's Facebook feed and swinging potentially in elections. So we
Speaker 1: have a it's a very, very complicated time. But that
Speaker 1: being said, it's actually a very has never been a
Speaker 1: more important time to be a journalist, and so we
Speaker 1: feel very fortunate to be doing what we're doing because
Speaker 1: we need accurate information, we need truth, We need people
Speaker 1: who are hunting down the facts, and that's what we're
Speaker 1: trying to do it. Mike the way I think Laura
Speaker 1: and I talk about both Mike and Lenny differently, but
Speaker 1: this is the similarity where we say the audiences that
Speaker 1: come to Mike the audiences that are reading Lenny, there
Speaker 1: are audiences that want to be a part of something
Speaker 1: that's bigger. They want to actually take action. Right, how
Speaker 1: do you guys embrace that or how do you even
Speaker 1: like stoke those planes? Yeah? Well we so we had
Speaker 1: twenty five reporters going cover inauguration. Um it was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge moment for us, but the vast majority went to
Speaker 1: cover all the protests happening all over the city. You know,
Speaker 1: we try to represent our audience, which is eighteen to
Speaker 1: thirty five year olds who vast majority didn't vote for
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and are very disturbed by what's happening. And
Speaker 1: so we're trying to accurately depict, inform, and represent their
Speaker 1: world view, which means for us being on the front
Speaker 1: lines of the activism happening across the country. You know,
Speaker 1: the Women's March was the biggest protests in US history
Speaker 1: and was planned you know, in less than two fake
Speaker 1: news not fake news, um, and young people all over
Speaker 1: the world. There wasn't a person on my Facebook fee
Speaker 1: who wasn't at the Women's March. So we're trying to
Speaker 1: be on the front lines and tell stories that really
Speaker 1: capture where this generation is. And we're really excited to
Speaker 1: be part of, you know, our generation's response to what's happening.
Speaker 1: But what I think is is fascinating about is you're
Speaker 1: talking about being on the front lines and covering it
Speaker 1: where Ben, I think what's fascinating and Alexa and I
Speaker 1: followed this very closely. Was Lenny and Lena and Jenny
Speaker 1: and jess Gross and alak Cars almost made them Brangelina, um,
Speaker 1: you know, editors for Lenny, we're on a bus going
Speaker 1: down and being a part of the protests and so
Speaker 1: while you're both covering the same things, it's interesting to
Speaker 1: see the different angles in the role Lenny played in that.
Speaker 1: Can you talk to us a little bit about, um,
Speaker 1: the importance of that and having you know, your editors
Speaker 1: on the front line from a different perspective as as females.
Speaker 1: So and let me just this is a good sort
Speaker 1: of way for me to say, I'm the CEO, I
Speaker 1: am not an editor. Um, so like you know, I
Speaker 1: can better at that. I am better at that than
Speaker 1: I am sort of, but I'm going to try and
Speaker 1: represent that. If Jenny or Lena or Jess or Liah
Speaker 1: could answer that question, they would say something like this
Speaker 1: that like, first of all, Lenny was created not as
Speaker 1: a business to you know, with a four year exit
Speaker 1: plan that you know we were gonna like you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like Jenny and Lena were like, how can
Speaker 1: we cash in on this amazing like like women's voice thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was. It was It's a mission driven company, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And like and taking a point
Speaker 1: of view the way that say Fox News pioneered, like
Speaker 1: did ales have a real mission in terms of like
Speaker 1: how he wanted to change the world or did he
Speaker 1: see a market opportunity or you know, or both? And
Speaker 1: and is that a bad thing? Is that a good thing?
Speaker 1: You know? Um? But to answer your question, like, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: like we are part of the story, you know. And
Speaker 1: and and Lenny's maybe a little different from Mike in
Speaker 1: the sense that we don't do what you do in
Speaker 1: sense of like true journalism, Like we're not quote unquote
Speaker 1: reporting the facts. We're much more of an editorial page.
Speaker 1: And we're giving women, uh you know again same sort
Speaker 1: of demographic eighteen thirty five. Um, you know, whether they
Speaker 1: be actors, activists, educators, etcetera, like that platform to to
Speaker 1: to to speak their mind and speak to those subjects
Speaker 1: in a way that like you know, we felt, um
Speaker 1: was was was missing? Um, you know, I think it
Speaker 1: is a complicated time and these lines are very blurry.
Speaker 1: And um, I mean to go back to your initial question,
Speaker 1: this is testing your limits both as a journalist and
Speaker 1: as a human being. I mean, are you at these
Speaker 1: rallies to report? But then you know, we had journalists
Speaker 1: who actually came to us and asked, you know, can
Speaker 1: they go part of the march as well? And and
Speaker 1: and ethically like they're ethically um, and you know, we
Speaker 1: are journalists, and so we want to make it clear
Speaker 1: that we're our job is to get to the truth. However, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we do a whole lot of things that
Speaker 1: Mike too. So we have people who report the news,
Speaker 1: We have calumnists and who give their opinion about the news.
Speaker 1: We have had plenty of people who have come in
Speaker 1: to do direct to camera video op eds, celebrities, influencers,
Speaker 1: So we do a whole host of things too, and
Speaker 1: I think it is a it's a a blended, tricky time.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think that Mike did
Speaker 1: maybe first it was right after the election and we're
Speaker 1: on the phone actually with Chris I'll check, just talking
Speaker 1: to him about Okay, what does this mean now, like
Speaker 1: what do we do now? What advertisers and brands and
Speaker 1: media company, media company of the platform, and also like
Speaker 1: then separately as like concerned citizens, like what do we
Speaker 1: do now? And I think you guys were one of
Speaker 1: the first media outlets that actually started publishing phone numbers
Speaker 1: for Congress people. I thought that was like, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: get to the heart of it. You also explained how
Speaker 1: you get something done instead of just calling, show up.
Speaker 1: R Yeah, I mean, and you know, so we published
Speaker 1: a video with Congressman Steve Israel, who was in Congress
Speaker 1: for sixteen years and he had retired, and we asked him,
Speaker 1: what's the playbook for making your life hell if you
Speaker 1: wanted to? And he referred back to the tea party. Right, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: he referred to the tea party. And he said, you know,
Speaker 1: in sixteen years, I've never once picked up the phone
Speaker 1: in my office. Don't call my office, come out with
Speaker 1: five friends, show up. And it's interesting. And all of
Speaker 1: these things are happening from a media perspective in terms
Speaker 1: of how we cover, we report on it, we respond
Speaker 1: to it. But Alex and I have been scratching our
Speaker 1: head saying what role the brand's play in this, and
Speaker 1: how are you working with them and how are they
Speaker 1: coming to you to address this very issue. Well, I
Speaker 1: would say, like brands have been representing a status quo
Speaker 1: since the beginning of time, right, Like they're not sort
Speaker 1: of like consciously political actors, but like they go with
Speaker 1: the flow. Let's just put it in that in those terms,
Speaker 1: and when you have a administration that is so far
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to say it's to the right
Speaker 1: because I think it's sort of like it has abandoned
Speaker 1: core values. For example, like you and you hear Barack
Speaker 1: Obama on his way out talking about core values. And
Speaker 1: there's a reason why he does that, I think, which
Speaker 1: is to sort of to to say that, like there's
Speaker 1: all of us here in America that agree on like
Speaker 1: equality as a core value, and then there's this administration
Speaker 1: that its core value is winning. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: at any cost. So to bring it back to your
Speaker 1: question about like if you're a brand, like if you're
Speaker 1: a brand your job and like selling toothpaste kind of brand,
Speaker 1: or whether you're a brand selling uh, financial services, Like
Speaker 1: you want to be in that center. You want to
Speaker 1: be where the core values are. And this is a
Speaker 1: really interesting time where like the core values, like I
Speaker 1: don't even think our partisan anymore. It's like when we're
Speaker 1: talking about like this is America, we're talking about like
Speaker 1: equality as a core value, and like, so if you
Speaker 1: can't stand up for equality, say the way that like
Speaker 1: Anheuser Bush did with that amazing immigrant ad, like in
Speaker 1: a world where that's suddenly anti Trump, like you're going
Speaker 1: to be fine. So I love that you're what you're saying,
Speaker 1: because it's not actually political, it's about having core values.
Speaker 1: You're saying like we've gone so right and we're anti
Speaker 1: we should be anti right is right? Conversation? This is
Speaker 1: just a what are your values conversation? So have you
Speaker 1: felt that post election era that your values that Mike
Speaker 1: have been more galvanized and your values that Lenny have
Speaker 1: been more galvanized because of the outward like the external
Speaker 1: pressure situation. Definitely. First, well, look here's what I would say.
Speaker 1: I mean on the brand's question. I think it's a
Speaker 1: complicated time for brands, just in the way it is
Speaker 1: for journalists. Um, you know, we did a survey of
Speaker 1: our audience post election, and what millennials want post election
Speaker 1: is to see that brands stand up and show their
Speaker 1: values for something on gender equality, on climate change, on
Speaker 1: LGBTQ rights, on the core issues. It's tricky. We've seen
Speaker 1: examples in the last few weeks, whether it's Uber being
Speaker 1: singled out over the course of a day, uh, Starbucks
Speaker 1: committing to higher refugees and then getting a boycott Starbucks
Speaker 1: hashtag because uh, you know, these things were very polarized.
Speaker 1: It's very very tricky and a lot of these companies
Speaker 1: have employees who voted for Trump and have products, you know,
Speaker 1: and and factories and bases and states that voted for trum.
Speaker 1: So it's it's not a one size fits all thing.
Speaker 1: But you know, what we are seeing is that if
Speaker 1: you want to stay relevant to millennials to the next generation,
Speaker 1: people are expecting now you to stand up as a brand.
Speaker 1: And we're hearing lots of people come to us and
Speaker 1: say we want to do CSR campaigns. We've realized that
Speaker 1: now this is a priority. This is JUSTSR campaign, uh,
Speaker 1: corporate social responsibility campaign. So this is not a thing
Speaker 1: that just can be on the side anymore. This is
Speaker 1: something that has to be core to what we do,
Speaker 1: and that's what we've tried to do with brands. What's
Speaker 1: so interesting about what you just said, Jake, is that, um,
Speaker 1: when companies or brands start to rally around the political
Speaker 1: output of values, there's going to be backlash on one
Speaker 1: side or the other. But when you focus strictly on
Speaker 1: the value instead of getting into the political context of
Speaker 1: what that value stands for, it seems to be where
Speaker 1: people can at least come to the middle and agree
Speaker 1: on which is not a simple thing. Right, So it's
Speaker 1: a difference between saying I embrace diversity verse I'm going
Speaker 1: to hire X refugees. Yes, I agree with that, although
Speaker 1: what I would say is, as as you rightly point out,
Speaker 1: these things are very politicized now, so it's not everything
Speaker 1: is a value could be seen as a political thing.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, the the the irony of
Speaker 1: this period is every brand is worried about getting caught
Speaker 1: in Donald Trump's twitter feed. But on the flip side,
Speaker 1: getting caught in his twitter feed actually throws your ratings
Speaker 1: through the roof and people have sign up for your newsletter,
Speaker 1: and so it's it's a very tricky thing. Um. And again,
Speaker 1: like I said, you know, there's no one answer to
Speaker 1: how to deal with it as a company. I think
Speaker 1: I think, like you know, we've seen like Nordstrom stock
Speaker 1: drop for a few minutes and then like shoot straight
Speaker 1: back up, and that that sends a signal which is
Speaker 1: like it's gonna be okay, Like they're gonna be a
Speaker 1: couple of hashtags again. Like whereas like Uber like got
Speaker 1: the message fast and like I think did the right thing,
Speaker 1: Nordstrom didn't even do anything right. Well, that okay, That's
Speaker 1: where I wanted to I wanted to actually drill down
Speaker 1: into that, like you don't even have to do anything
Speaker 1: to now become part of the Maelstrom. Right, So everything
Speaker 1: is politicized everything and nothing's off limits. How do you
Speaker 1: how do you act in in a world as a
Speaker 1: brand like that? Right where you're in and you're out,
Speaker 1: you're this or your creator or a creator. You stick
Speaker 1: with core values. That's what they're there for, and so
Speaker 1: you know they're always there. Sorry, they're always there. And
Speaker 1: like when when there's lots of smoke and fire and
Speaker 1: people are like freaking out, you're like, remember we wrote
Speaker 1: our court values down like in the front door when
Speaker 1: you walk in. Can someone go like remind me what
Speaker 1: they are? Oh, it's equality. Okay, let's go do the
Speaker 1: quality thing. That's what they're there for. So that like
Speaker 1: when you get lost, you're like, that's my core. So
Speaker 1: just return to those, you know what I'd say, also
Speaker 1: as you can't ignore it. You know these conversations I've
Speaker 1: been in certain circles, whether it's in international political circles
Speaker 1: or amongst some folks who try to pretend like this
Speaker 1: isn't what's on everybody's mind. In the room, every employee
Speaker 1: is thinking about activism, action, politics, he's buying from a
Speaker 1: company is thinking about it. So, you know, I think
Speaker 1: if if there was a time too, there is this
Speaker 1: notion that oh, we can just hide under the rug
Speaker 1: and let it pass and just sort of it'll sweep
Speaker 1: over us. And I think that's wrong. So I think
Speaker 1: we're just in a completely different era. I think we
Speaker 1: have now ticked into I don't like where we've gone.
Speaker 1: We're not going back right, Like I I firmly believe
Speaker 1: that I want to add something of that too. So
Speaker 1: it's like, I think the point about it being like
Speaker 1: being part of the conversation, Like I think that is
Speaker 1: really all that people want is that you're like recognizing
Speaker 1: it and talking about it. They're less concerned about like
Speaker 1: you're taking a stand or like what side are you on.
Speaker 1: It's like, how about we just have the conversation and
Speaker 1: see where and that might help us just move forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also wonder like, so I was reading something the
Speaker 1: other day. I can't remember where it was, but it
Speaker 1: was saying that now corporate America has gotten into the
Speaker 1: place where they're all going to be doing something that
Speaker 1: has a point of view, right, that they're going to
Speaker 1: stand for something, that they're going to let their core
Speaker 1: values be known, and then you know everyone does it
Speaker 1: and it means nothing to anyone. Right, So now you
Speaker 1: have the up, you have another problem coming up, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I would love to know from
Speaker 1: like a more of a media perspective, how do you
Speaker 1: make sure that it's not just a flash in the
Speaker 1: pan type of thing that you get reflected they the
Speaker 1: public reflects upon you and says, you know what, that's
Speaker 1: not really who you are. Well. I recently interviewed Hamdi Lukaya,
Speaker 1: who's the CEO of Jabani, who has been one of
Speaker 1: the most remarkable in the last few years, outspoken on refugees,
Speaker 1: a whole host of issues, and what he told me is,
Speaker 1: you know, if you, as a CEO, would be laughed
Speaker 1: at by your own employees if you said here's what
Speaker 1: our brand stands for, then you're probably not doing it authentically.
Speaker 1: So I think it comes back to values. It comes
Speaker 1: back to you know, what are the core values that
Speaker 1: you as a company or championing. You know, these things
Speaker 1: can't come out of left field, so right, I think
Speaker 1: that's like, how do you keep how do you keep
Speaker 1: that drum before you before you even buy an ad
Speaker 1: in like Mike or Lenny to like to like change
Speaker 1: the quote unquote change the world. You should have that
Speaker 1: internal conversation first with and again it's not like this
Speaker 1: is what we stand for on on you know, we're
Speaker 1: against Trump. No one's asking you to do that. It's
Speaker 1: just like, you know, what is it that you stand
Speaker 1: for in terms of a company, and like what are
Speaker 1: your values? And then once you've established had that conversation,
Speaker 1: then you can come to like credibly, come to a
Speaker 1: Mike and a Lenny and say this is what we
Speaker 1: stand for, and then Mike and Lenny will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. So do we like now that How do
Speaker 1: we reflect that, you know, through what we do, because like,
Speaker 1: our audiences keep coming back to us because they know
Speaker 1: who we are, and we consistently represent this voice. I
Speaker 1: think that's the point. Consistently represent So like when we're
Speaker 1: not like and we're happy to like take your money
Speaker 1: and like and like and like, but I mean again
Speaker 1: to the business part of this and to like and
Speaker 1: to like lend ourselves and and and our reputation to yours.
Speaker 1: But it only really works and makes sense when you've
Speaker 1: already done it yourself, so that that's a shared value,
Speaker 1: that there should be a jar in the middle where
Speaker 1: the word value like like like every every creative conversation
Speaker 1: that we have with brands is you know, a million
Speaker 1: times more productive when they come and effective when they
Speaker 1: come to the table saying like this is what, this
Speaker 1: is who we are. And I love Ben where you
Speaker 1: were going just in terms of authenticity and this is
Speaker 1: something Alex and I are hypersensitive about, which is contextual
Speaker 1: relevancy and not having a seat at the table but
Speaker 1: being a part of the conversation. UM, And I think
Speaker 1: what I'd love to get your thoughts on our UM,
Speaker 1: how has a new cycle changed perhaps or shaped the
Speaker 1: way you're creating con hent Um. Are you leaning into longer, firm,
Speaker 1: shorter form inasmuch as you're leaning into different topics. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: we're always playing around with different formats. I mean, we
Speaker 1: try to be very platform focused and new platform first,
Speaker 1: so trying to understand and move to new platforms quickly.
Speaker 1: UM short form video has been a huge, huge piece
Speaker 1: of what we've done in the last year and a
Speaker 1: half two years, UM seen tremendous growth there, reaching a
Speaker 1: hundred million people every month, UM, as a result of
Speaker 1: those two minute videos that live on Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 1: and increasingly increasingly now we're thinking about long form video,
Speaker 1: So building shows that live on streaming platforms, going to
Speaker 1: the Hulus and Amazons and Netflix, you know, the place
Speaker 1: where millennials watch TV, and building shows that reflect you know,
Speaker 1: this generation's demand for commentary analysis. How are you deciding
Speaker 1: that content though? Is it stuff that you're picking up
Speaker 1: from headlines in the news cycle or is it going
Speaker 1: deeper on the investigative side and thinking about It'll be
Speaker 1: a little of both, but I mean, we'll we'll have
Speaker 1: shows that are evergreen and based on our core topic extent,
Speaker 1: will build them out as sort of serialized mini docs
Speaker 1: and things that we know we have a core audience
Speaker 1: built around. UM. And then we'll also try to reinvent
Speaker 1: some of the nightly news shows because I think we
Speaker 1: need that at this time. Jake, what are you obsessing
Speaker 1: over right now outside of your journalistic responsibilities, UM, both
Speaker 1: of somebody in the media space, UM, but also as
Speaker 1: you know, probably a consumer of the same disculd be
Speaker 1: content discus. Well, you know, look, I think I'm obsessing
Speaker 1: about the things a lot of people in this country
Speaker 1: are obsessing about, which is, how do go going back
Speaker 1: to what we started with, how do we get to
Speaker 1: the truth? What can media companies do to uh stand
Speaker 1: up in this moment and really you know, report the truth.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really really important question. I'm also
Speaker 1: obsessing with, um what entrepreneurs and what everyday people and
Speaker 1: our generation is going to do to respond to this moment.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the most amazing things that we've
Speaker 1: seen is that, for the first time ever, millennials are
Speaker 1: like clamoring to run for office at this moment. Are
Speaker 1: you guys helping them? Well, we're obsessed with that. We're
Speaker 1: helping to you know, publish some of these campaigns and
Speaker 1: you know, publishing op eds on our side. But we've
Speaker 1: seen millennials clamoring to run for office. People want to
Speaker 1: get activated, they want to do something they don't know
Speaker 1: quite what to do. Some people are going to go protests,
Speaker 1: some people are going to donate, some people are going
Speaker 1: to run for office. What's your favorite like grassroots UM
Speaker 1: movement movement that's like spur action or action. Well, there's
Speaker 1: been some really amazing, I mean amazing people who are
Speaker 1: doing amazing things. Um, you know, I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: of listeners have heard of the Indivisible Guide, which has
Speaker 1: been one of the big ones circulating where like even
Speaker 1: my mom now who's emailed at this Westchester m is
Speaker 1: going to town hall meetings and thinking about how to
Speaker 1: get activated and how do people access that. People can
Speaker 1: can access that, um that indivisible guy dot com. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a website. You can download it. You can start
Speaker 1: a town hall meeting in your community as a playbook
Speaker 1: for how to sort of come together. A friend of
Speaker 1: mine was telling me that in Westchester she went to
Speaker 1: one in seven people showed up totally. They didn't think
Speaker 1: they were going to get ten totally. But I would
Speaker 1: look like I would. I would love to see and
Speaker 1: for listeners, I would love to see people use this
Speaker 1: moment to inspire creativity that we have never can go anytime.
Speaker 1: There's always you know, in tech, there's always been this
Speaker 1: sense of like, oh, well, you know politics is over
Speaker 1: there and Washington's over there, We're going to do our own.
Speaker 1: Think there's never been a more important time for people
Speaker 1: in tech. And you don't have to get political, but
Speaker 1: just think about the moment that we're think about solutions.
Speaker 1: Get creative. I mean, that's what I would love to see.
Speaker 1: I think the real challenge for Lenny And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you feel the same way. Maybe you guys
Speaker 1: probably do a better job of this because you're a
Speaker 1: bigger organization, UM and have more resources. But I think
Speaker 1: that like the sort of media elite problem that we
Speaker 1: have in the sort of in the coastal issues was
Speaker 1: a big problem for Lenny, and that like and something
Speaker 1: that we without very much work, could probably uh do
Speaker 1: lot to to rectify. And I think my hope is
Speaker 1: over the next few years, we're going to two cities
Speaker 1: and states um that we wouldn't otherwise go to and
Speaker 1: like identify pockets of resistance. UM. Can I say something
Speaker 1: that I'll blow everyone's mind, but that's a guarantee. Can
Speaker 1: make sure you mark this. Are you ready? This is news? Um.
Speaker 1: So after the election, we did a study of rural millennials, UM,
Speaker 1: and we looked at what they're reading, what they're sharing,
Speaker 1: how to talk to them, how to reach them. And
Speaker 1: we found a fascinating insight which is in Wisconsin, on
Speaker 1: the day that the Trump sex tape came out, there
Speaker 1: was an uptick in searches for what does misogyny mean?
Speaker 1: And what is a massage? Confusing the word massage and misogyny,
Speaker 1: And here is what I think was one of the
Speaker 1: biggest issues with the Democratic side finishing well. So my
Speaker 1: thought is, I think if we do a better job storytelling,
Speaker 1: doing our jobs showing why things matter, you know, we
Speaker 1: we've fallen the trap too of you know, using big
Speaker 1: words and you know, sort of call out culture versus
Speaker 1: call in culture and being inclusive in our storytelling. So
Speaker 1: I think that's one piece of it. But I also think,
Speaker 1: I mean, here's another insight for you breaking news UM
Speaker 1: that that after the election, UM offline has had more
Speaker 1: of a resurgence than ever. So Starbucks has had some
Speaker 1: of its most foot traffic days in history the few
Speaker 1: days after the election. People are craving interact, connections, interaction,
Speaker 1: and so we're also thinking about offline events and what
Speaker 1: talk about to reach people so that we get out
Speaker 1: of our digital filter bubble and actually have real conversations
Speaker 1: with these folks. Do you know Faith Popcorn. She's a futurist,
Speaker 1: and she's like a famous futurist, and she was talking
Speaker 1: about that that now kind of with all of these
Speaker 1: confluence of things, right, it's the it's the post Brexit Trump,
Speaker 1: all of these kind of things coming together with technology
Speaker 1: on the rise, that we're going to see actually totally
Speaker 1: new patterns in sexual behavior because people are craving that
Speaker 1: we're actually at our lowest kind of sexual activity that
Speaker 1: we've been in history. Which I had more, I had, no,
Speaker 1: I had no, I didn't and I'm not having a
Speaker 1: number two for a while. But you have to have
Speaker 1: sex in order to have one to know the right
Speaker 1: past tense um. So sorry, honey, um, but but no.
Speaker 1: But the point is, and I think that's really true,
Speaker 1: is that like now we're going to be looking for
Speaker 1: new ways of interacting not only with each other to connect,
Speaker 1: but also now we've got technology that's connecting with us.
Speaker 1: Where does that play a role in the mix. It's
Speaker 1: really I agree, it's human interact. We're talking about like
Speaker 1: basically events, right, like tours, amends that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: And like I was talking about sex, you're talking about events.
Speaker 1: I'm tiking about very but like social media, all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff has made us lazy, and we keep going.
Speaker 1: We we we we're looking for ways of like leveraging
Speaker 1: Facebook in order to reach the most people, and because
Speaker 1: you know, we have limited time and limited money. But
Speaker 1: you know what it takes to like get out into
Speaker 1: the world and actually like get people to come together
Speaker 1: and do a thing is very taxing. It takes a
Speaker 1: lot of work. And we've it's not that we've lost
Speaker 1: we don't have the work ethic, it's just that like
Speaker 1: when you live in a just to bring it back
Speaker 1: to media and like what counts if you're going after
Speaker 1: massive clicks, if that's what's paying the bills, right, and
Speaker 1: your advertiser is like I want to reach as many
Speaker 1: people as possible, you know what I mean? Like then
Speaker 1: like the kind of content that you're going to create
Speaker 1: is like is going to be built around those sorts
Speaker 1: of like what kind of creating them? And then and
Speaker 1: then but if you want to create these events, you're
Speaker 1: you're only reaching like a thousand people. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of or or or a hundred people. And is the
Speaker 1: mass that we talked and just what it costs a
Speaker 1: lot more to do that than like than buy a face.
Speaker 1: What's the but what's the return? And that's where you
Speaker 1: get into a quality, actionable impact loyalty thing. I think
Speaker 1: we've unlocked a lot a lot today and I think
Speaker 1: we want to look like he's going to fall leave.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I've unlock so much you can't
Speaker 1: take any I think what we love is to kind
Speaker 1: of have both of you, um leave our listeners. What
Speaker 1: will call the last tweet of the night? What do
Speaker 1: you mean? Or is it just for the afternoon? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What's the last word from Ben Cooley? Tweet? Or otherwise?
Speaker 1: In Atlantia love one another? I like that? Okay, Jake,
Speaker 1: how many characters do we go? Yeah? You can? You know?
Speaker 1: And Jake, we'll do a hundred. Well, no, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I'm very very enthused about the amount of creative energy
Speaker 1: that we're seeing. Um. And my message to listeners would
Speaker 1: be to channel it and that this is a we're
Speaker 1: living through the most unprecedented moment in history, So brands,
Speaker 1: individuals channel it. Can Can people call you guys and say, hey,
Speaker 1: have this brilliant idea for Lenny, Hey have this brilliant
Speaker 1: idea for Mike? Oh definitely. How do they get in
Speaker 1: touch with you? Well, you can tweet at at me,
Speaker 1: email me, um, call me, uh my cell phone number
Speaker 1: and email are on my Twitter account, so pretty pretty
Speaker 1: easy to get ahold of your cell phone is on
Speaker 1: your Twitter That maybe not my cell phone? What's your
Speaker 1: Twitter handle? Jacob D. Horrowitz Nice? Then you can email
Speaker 1: me Bennett Lenny letter dot com. All right, I love it, guys.
Speaker 1: Thank awesome conversation and we totally totally appreciate what you're
Speaker 1: doing Summers and as the co host of the show,
Speaker 1: what you're doing to move the movement forward. So thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. So that was our first show.
Speaker 1: What's our first show? And we didn't do this alone.
Speaker 1: There are so many people think, so many people think,
Speaker 1: and not the least or the last are the people
Speaker 1: at Hannibally and Slate who believed in us. So a
Speaker 1: few core shoutouts Jacob Weisberg, Andy Bowers, Laura Mayor, Matt Turk,
Speaker 1: Cameron Drew's, Cameron Drew's our producer. Um, yeah, and just
Speaker 1: all of our friends and family who stood by this,
Speaker 1: and industry colleagues. I mean, I personally love to thank
Speaker 1: our significant others and I've been listening to this ship
Speaker 1: for a really long time and are probably glad we're
Speaker 1: out of our houses and in the studio doing it.
Speaker 1: So thank you Sandy, thank you Mike, and I mean
Speaker 1: my mom, my dad, my brother, just like the oscars.
Speaker 1: Wrap it up all right. So you can find at
Speaker 1: Landia pretty much anywhere Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, at and Landia
Speaker 1: podcast and also be sure to obviously subscribe to at
Speaker 1: Landia podcast on iTunes and everywhere else you can get podcasts,
Speaker 1: obviously obviously, so welcome to Atlandia. We'll be back every
Speaker 1: other Tuesday. We're excited to have you and be a
Speaker 1: part of the conversation. Full disc closure. Our opinions are
Speaker 1: our own.