WEBVTT - Trumping Your Values 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.800 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.640 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.640 trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.400 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.960 really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen, 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:32.920 and this is at Landia. So Laura and I have 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.720 been working in advertising and marketing for what seems like, 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.200 I don't know, like how many years, come on, twenty 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.440 five years? Maybe that's aging us. I'm all there you are, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:46.839 But wings, Alexa and I started this show because we 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.040 would have long nights of talking about what was happening 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.640 in the industry. Like our significant others are ready to 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.840 leave us a long night, we all went to bed together, 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.400 all went to bed together. It was a little strange, look, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.360 I mean, Landy was really add because over the course 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.960 of the years we've worked together, we've been a part 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.080 of some amazing projects. I mean, some truly best in 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.560 class work that has in some instances redefined revived and 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.240 reshaped the industry. And I think, you know, along the Whylox, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.759 I mean, we've met some fascinating people, We've developed some 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.959 kick ass work, amazing relationships, amazing relationships, and I think 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.960 what we've decided is that the industry oftentimes chases headlines 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.479 or rehashes the same thing over and over again, just 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.880 from a different perspective. And what we really wanted to 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.160 do is dig in a little bit again and talk 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.720 about the things in a different way. Talk to people 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.600 who you may not know, but you should know, definitely 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.520 should know the people who are changing the way things 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.160 are gonna look in the future, and they're totally shaping 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.640 the way we think about brands, the way we think 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.680 about technology, the way we think about media and future. Absolutely, 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.240 and I think what's super important about this platform is 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.840 we wanted to create a space that people can be 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.200 a part of the conversation um and essentially some thing. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.000 If you were sitting on our couch and having one 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.200 of our favorites by see Margarita's, this would be natural. Yeah, 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.280 welcome to Atlandia. Welcome to Atlandia. We're excited to have you, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.560 so we're super excited. Later on We've got two super 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.359 kick ass guests, Bank Lee from Lenny Letter and Jake 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.240 Horoetz from Mike. But first we're going to dive into 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.320 our favorite part of the show, in the Feed, And 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.080 this segment is really meant to kind of get in 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.040 and talk about some of the things that are hot 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.960 and advertising and marketing, all of the things that are 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.560 keeping us up at night, and most importantly UM kind 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.200 of talk about why these things matter. Yeah, And it's 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.760 not like necessarily like in the Feed they just crossed 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.480 your radar their headlines, it's like this is what's crossing 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.639 our radar or like what we're obsessing over? Yeah, for sure. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.680 And I think one of the most fascinating things that 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.360 we've been texting about lately is the did you just 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.760 see what happened on SNL? Everybody's doing it and I 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.280 mean they're on a twenty year ratings high. My mother 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:06.080 was talking about cold opens we should be talking about. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.680 But I think what's what's fascinating is there's this whole 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.960 cultural context UM in media that's really important right now. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.920 And what I'm super excited to talk to our guests 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.200 about UM later in the show is this idea of 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:25.480 online meeting the offline and SNL is truly blurring the 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.360 line um, so to speak. And I think it's just 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.680 fascinating how they've picked up the cultural context. I mean, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:36.440 this news cycle was made to revive SNL. If you're 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:38.680 sitting in Laura Michael's chair, yeah, I would say that 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.360 that's totally true. I would you remember when you and 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.600 I went to Malcolm gladwhile he did his final episode 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.120 of Revisionist History, and it was all about and like, 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.360 how there's actually this death of satire, that satire isn't 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.280 this thing that it used to be because satire deals 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:01.560 with these really painfully real topics. I think SNL has 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:08.360 come back. Malcolm's issue was he felt that Tina Fe 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.520 and some of the um acting that happened on SNL 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.120 during the Sarah Palin run basically copped out. They were 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.479 focusing like her glasses and her where she got the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.320 accent inspiration from. And he was like, bullshit. You had 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.960 a responsibility as a public figure to call it out, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.200 poke holes and say I'm not getting up here and 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.080 putting on this. I can't even do the accent from 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.479 New Jersey. I can't do the accent. But but the 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.479 but the reality is like getting up here and poking fun. 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.200 It's like, no, there is an underlying message here where 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.800 I think SNL this year is killing nailing it. They're 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.960 killing it. And I think one of the things that 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:53.000 again brands can stand to learn about UM is authenticity 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.440 and this idea that you have to behave consistently. And 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.440 that's from publisher to brand to anyone out there who's 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.200 has a message that they believe in. You can't do 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.360 it once. You gotta keeping what's important. Like SNL is 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.240 leaning into satire. Obviously that's what they do UM. But 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.440 I think there's never been a more important time for creators, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:19.799 for influencers UM to really corral or I guess artists 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.480 UM and and own their voice. And it's not trying 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.159 to play Kate too trends UM or you know what's 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.120 in the news feed UM in terms of headlines, but 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.320 it's truly understanding what role do we play in the conversation. 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:42.039 How do we add value versus adding another blaring sound. Yeah, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.360 I mean I think it's it's like you're no longer 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.320 just a seat at the table, You're a voice in 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.080 the conversation. I love that. Well anyway, I think today 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:51.960 is going to be an awesome show. So excited to 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.640 have Ben Cooley, CEO of Lenny Letter, and Jack Barwis, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.240 who's doing some sick interviews. I mean, the guy has 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:01.800 interviewed everybody from just got off a hot piece with 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.760 Bill Gates, and just super excited to have Jake editor 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:19.800 large at Mike. So we'll be right back. So we're 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:24.840 really excited tonight to have to really relevant guests. Jake Horowitz, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.039 I will let you introduce yourself. Well, I'm happy to 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.640 be here. Thank you. I'm the co founder and editor 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.800 a large of Mike, which is the leading news site 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.719 for the millennials. Yeah, we have Ben Cooley here, who 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.840 is the CEO of Lenny Letter. Um, Ben, why didn't 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.840 you tell everybody your backstory on Lenny and and why 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.360 you're there? Really, you're really putting me on the spot. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.159 My name is Ben Cooley. I am the CEO of 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:55.400 Lenny A. I like to call it a feminist media conglomerate. Conglomerate. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.400 That's right, we'll have to talk about that more. That's 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:05.360 what I'm here from. Are you conglomerating media generally? Well, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.000 thank you guys both so much for being here on Atlantia. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:09.920 I think we're super excited to talk to you. We 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.880 we truly feel that your platforms, UM are super important. Jake, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.120 you just had a fascinating interview with Bill Gates, and 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.920 I thought some of his comments around, UM, you know, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.000 the role of media companies and really tech companies actually 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.680 and what they play in fake news. Um. He doesn't 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.240 have the solution, but he knows that they need to 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:29.600 come up with one. Can you talk to us a 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.480 little about you know, I think the industry face is 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.120 a big challenge. Um. We're living in a time that 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.400 we've never seen and for the last two years, reporters 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.080 have grappled with how to cover Trump. Um. You know. 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.280 The funny thing about the word fake news is it's 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.640 being used on both sides of the aisle, right, So 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.080 fake news is now being used by President Trump to 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.200 label any story written by a journalist who he doesn't 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.680 think captures him and that he doesn't agree with, just 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.640 as much as it's being used, um by people on 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.360 the other side of the aisle pointing out worries that 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.880 are just plain fake and not factual. So it's a 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.520 sort of act they're actually fati written by in my 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.800 opinion written by somebody in you know, Eastern Europe, flooding 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.400 somebody's Facebook feed and swinging potentially in elections. So we 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.640 have a it's a very, very complicated time. But that 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.080 being said, it's actually a very has never been a 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.320 more important time to be a journalist, and so we 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.720 feel very fortunate to be doing what we're doing because 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.480 we need accurate information, we need truth, We need people 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.480 who are hunting down the facts, and that's what we're 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.440 trying to do it. Mike the way I think Laura 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.320 and I talk about both Mike and Lenny differently, but 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.959 this is the similarity where we say the audiences that 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.920 come to Mike the audiences that are reading Lenny, there 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.920 are audiences that want to be a part of something 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.800 that's bigger. They want to actually take action. Right, how 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.800 do you guys embrace that or how do you even 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.360 like stoke those planes? Yeah? Well we so we had 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.040 twenty five reporters going cover inauguration. Um it was a huge, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.520 huge moment for us, but the vast majority went to 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.320 cover all the protests happening all over the city. You know, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.319 we try to represent our audience, which is eighteen to 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.760 thirty five year olds who vast majority didn't vote for 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.640 Donald Trump and are very disturbed by what's happening. And 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.280 so we're trying to accurately depict, inform, and represent their 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.520 world view, which means for us being on the front 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.600 lines of the activism happening across the country. You know, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.880 the Women's March was the biggest protests in US history 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.400 and was planned you know, in less than two fake 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.199 news not fake news, um, and young people all over 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.040 the world. There wasn't a person on my Facebook fee 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.960 who wasn't at the Women's March. So we're trying to 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.240 be on the front lines and tell stories that really 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.760 capture where this generation is. And we're really excited to 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.360 be part of, you know, our generation's response to what's happening. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:47.839 But what I think is is fascinating about is you're 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.360 talking about being on the front lines and covering it 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.800 where Ben, I think what's fascinating and Alexa and I 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.400 followed this very closely. Was Lenny and Lena and Jenny 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.640 and jess Gross and alak Cars almost made them Brangelina, um, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.079 you know, editors for Lenny, we're on a bus going 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.640 down and being a part of the protests and so 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.400 while you're both covering the same things, it's interesting to 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.319 see the different angles in the role Lenny played in that. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.560 Can you talk to us a little bit about, um, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.360 the importance of that and having you know, your editors 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.160 on the front line from a different perspective as as females. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.319 So and let me just this is a good sort 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.600 of way for me to say, I'm the CEO, I 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.839 am not an editor. Um, so like you know, I 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.640 can better at that. I am better at that than 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.600 I am sort of, but I'm going to try and 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:38.640 represent that. If Jenny or Lena or Jess or Liah 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:40.959 could answer that question, they would say something like this 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.199 that like, first of all, Lenny was created not as 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.280 a business to you know, with a four year exit 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:49.840 plan that you know we were gonna like you know, 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:51.400 it wasn't like Jenny and Lena were like, how can 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:56.040 we cash in on this amazing like like women's voice thing. Uh, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.480 it was. It was It's a mission driven company, you 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.079 know what I mean? And like and taking a point 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:06.559 of view the way that say Fox News pioneered, like 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.440 did ales have a real mission in terms of like 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.200 how he wanted to change the world or did he 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.680 see a market opportunity or you know, or both? And 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.960 and is that a bad thing? Is that a good thing? 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.440 You know? Um? But to answer your question, like, you know, yes, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.400 like we are part of the story, you know. And 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.160 and and Lenny's maybe a little different from Mike in 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.679 the sense that we don't do what you do in 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.520 sense of like true journalism, Like we're not quote unquote 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.120 reporting the facts. We're much more of an editorial page. 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.679 And we're giving women, uh you know again same sort 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.199 of demographic eighteen thirty five. Um, you know, whether they 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:49.880 be actors, activists, educators, etcetera, like that platform to to 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.360 to to speak their mind and speak to those subjects 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.400 in a way that like you know, we felt, um 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.920 was was was missing? Um, you know, I think it 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.319 is a complicated time and these lines are very blurry. 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.680 And um, I mean to go back to your initial question, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.640 this is testing your limits both as a journalist and 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.760 as a human being. I mean, are you at these 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.280 rallies to report? But then you know, we had journalists 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.199 who actually came to us and asked, you know, can 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.679 they go part of the march as well? And and 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.240 and ethically like they're ethically um, and you know, we 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.439 are journalists, and so we want to make it clear 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.360 that we're our job is to get to the truth. However, um, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:31.599 you know, we do a whole lot of things that 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.600 Mike too. So we have people who report the news, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.200 We have calumnists and who give their opinion about the news. 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.120 We have had plenty of people who have come in 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.160 to do direct to camera video op eds, celebrities, influencers, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.040 So we do a whole host of things too, and 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.360 I think it is a it's a a blended, tricky time. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.240 One of the things that I think that Mike did 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.120 maybe first it was right after the election and we're 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.640 on the phone actually with Chris I'll check, just talking 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.360 to him about Okay, what does this mean now, like 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.520 what do we do now? What advertisers and brands and 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.080 media company, media company of the platform, and also like 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.480 then separately as like concerned citizens, like what do we 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.000 do now? And I think you guys were one of 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.440 the first media outlets that actually started publishing phone numbers 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.800 for Congress people. I thought that was like, yeah, let's 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.240 get to the heart of it. You also explained how 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.679 you get something done instead of just calling, show up. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.360 R Yeah, I mean, and you know, so we published 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.120 a video with Congressman Steve Israel, who was in Congress 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.680 for sixteen years and he had retired, and we asked him, 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.120 what's the playbook for making your life hell if you 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.600 wanted to? And he referred back to the tea party. Right, well, yeah, 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.040 he referred to the tea party. And he said, you know, 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.080 in sixteen years, I've never once picked up the phone 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.040 in my office. Don't call my office, come out with 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.000 five friends, show up. And it's interesting. And all of 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.600 these things are happening from a media perspective in terms 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.280 of how we cover, we report on it, we respond 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.120 to it. But Alex and I have been scratching our 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.679 head saying what role the brand's play in this, and 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.520 how are you working with them and how are they 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.280 coming to you to address this very issue. Well, I 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:07.439 would say, like brands have been representing a status quo 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.080 since the beginning of time, right, Like they're not sort 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.480 of like consciously political actors, but like they go with 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.679 the flow. Let's just put it in that in those terms, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.320 and when you have a administration that is so far 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.240 I'm not even going to say it's to the right 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.080 because I think it's sort of like it has abandoned 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.000 core values. For example, like you and you hear Barack 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.080 Obama on his way out talking about core values. And 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.480 there's a reason why he does that, I think, which 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.400 is to sort of to to say that, like there's 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.120 all of us here in America that agree on like 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.280 equality as a core value, and then there's this administration 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.680 that its core value is winning. You know, it's it's 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.120 at any cost. So to bring it back to your 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.160 question about like if you're a brand, like if you're 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.400 a brand your job and like selling toothpaste kind of brand, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:11.040 or whether you're a brand selling uh, financial services, Like 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.440 you want to be in that center. You want to 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.880 be where the core values are. And this is a 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.000 really interesting time where like the core values, like I 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.680 don't even think our partisan anymore. It's like when we're 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.960 talking about like this is America, we're talking about like 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:32.360 equality as a core value, and like, so if you 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.160 can't stand up for equality, say the way that like 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:40.200 Anheuser Bush did with that amazing immigrant ad, like in 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.920 a world where that's suddenly anti Trump, like you're going 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.360 to be fine. So I love that you're what you're saying, 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.040 because it's not actually political, it's about having core values. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.560 You're saying like we've gone so right and we're anti 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.200 we should be anti right is right? Conversation? This is 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.840 just a what are your values conversation? So have you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.160 felt that post election era that your values that Mike 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.920 have been more galvanized and your values that Lenny have 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.080 been more galvanized because of the outward like the external 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:16.000 pressure situation. Definitely. First, well, look here's what I would say. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:17.440 I mean on the brand's question. I think it's a 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.440 complicated time for brands, just in the way it is 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.800 for journalists. Um, you know, we did a survey of 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.840 our audience post election, and what millennials want post election 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.240 is to see that brands stand up and show their 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.360 values for something on gender equality, on climate change, on 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:36.000 LGBTQ rights, on the core issues. It's tricky. We've seen 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.200 examples in the last few weeks, whether it's Uber being 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.600 singled out over the course of a day, uh, Starbucks 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.520 committing to higher refugees and then getting a boycott Starbucks 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.280 hashtag because uh, you know, these things were very polarized. 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.800 It's very very tricky and a lot of these companies 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.920 have employees who voted for Trump and have products, you know, 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.000 and and factories and bases and states that voted for trum. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.120 So it's it's not a one size fits all thing. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.760 But you know, what we are seeing is that if 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.160 you want to stay relevant to millennials to the next generation, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.399 people are expecting now you to stand up as a brand. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.399 And we're hearing lots of people come to us and 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.560 say we want to do CSR campaigns. We've realized that 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:21.080 now this is a priority. This is JUSTSR campaign, uh, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.639 corporate social responsibility campaign. So this is not a thing 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.520 that just can be on the side anymore. This is 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.040 something that has to be core to what we do, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.200 and that's what we've tried to do with brands. What's 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.919 so interesting about what you just said, Jake, is that, um, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.800 when companies or brands start to rally around the political 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.800 output of values, there's going to be backlash on one 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.560 side or the other. But when you focus strictly on 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.879 the value instead of getting into the political context of 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.480 what that value stands for, it seems to be where 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.399 people can at least come to the middle and agree 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.400 on which is not a simple thing. Right, So it's 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.040 a difference between saying I embrace diversity verse I'm going 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.760 to hire X refugees. Yes, I agree with that, although 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.760 what I would say is, as as you rightly point out, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.520 these things are very politicized now, so it's not everything 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.160 is a value could be seen as a political thing. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.000 And I mean, you know, the the the irony of 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.639 this period is every brand is worried about getting caught 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.479 in Donald Trump's twitter feed. But on the flip side, 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.920 getting caught in his twitter feed actually throws your ratings 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.040 through the roof and people have sign up for your newsletter, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.840 and so it's it's a very tricky thing. Um. And again, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.280 like I said, you know, there's no one answer to 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.119 how to deal with it as a company. I think 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.960 I think, like you know, we've seen like Nordstrom stock 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.760 drop for a few minutes and then like shoot straight 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.000 back up, and that that sends a signal which is 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.760 like it's gonna be okay, Like they're gonna be a 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.520 couple of hashtags again. Like whereas like Uber like got 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.320 the message fast and like I think did the right thing, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.560 Nordstrom didn't even do anything right. Well, that okay, That's 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.720 where I wanted to I wanted to actually drill down 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.040 into that, like you don't even have to do anything 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:08.359 to now become part of the Maelstrom. Right, So everything 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:13.159 is politicized everything and nothing's off limits. How do you 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.119 how do you act in in a world as a 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.160 brand like that? Right where you're in and you're out, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.359 you're this or your creator or a creator. You stick 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.240 with core values. That's what they're there for, and so 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.760 you know they're always there. Sorry, they're always there. And 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.199 like when when there's lots of smoke and fire and 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.400 people are like freaking out, you're like, remember we wrote 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.560 our court values down like in the front door when 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.920 you walk in. Can someone go like remind me what 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.679 they are? Oh, it's equality. Okay, let's go do the 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.639 quality thing. That's what they're there for. So that like 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.080 when you get lost, you're like, that's my core. So 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.359 just return to those, you know what I'd say, also 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.680 as you can't ignore it. You know these conversations I've 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.880 been in certain circles, whether it's in international political circles 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.560 or amongst some folks who try to pretend like this 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.639 isn't what's on everybody's mind. In the room, every employee 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.399 is thinking about activism, action, politics, he's buying from a 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.080 company is thinking about it. So, you know, I think 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.280 if if there was a time too, there is this 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.200 notion that oh, we can just hide under the rug 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.119 and let it pass and just sort of it'll sweep 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.199 over us. And I think that's wrong. So I think 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.440 we're just in a completely different era. I think we 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.040 have now ticked into I don't like where we've gone. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.639 We're not going back right, Like I I firmly believe 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.280 that I want to add something of that too. So 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.199 it's like, I think the point about it being like 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.159 being part of the conversation, Like I think that is 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.320 really all that people want is that you're like recognizing 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.320 it and talking about it. They're less concerned about like 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.960 you're taking a stand or like what side are you on. 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.439 It's like, how about we just have the conversation and 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.480 see where and that might help us just move forward. Yeah, 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.639 I also wonder like, so I was reading something the 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.359 other day. I can't remember where it was, but it 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.840 was saying that now corporate America has gotten into the 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.159 place where they're all going to be doing something that 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:07.920 has a point of view, right, that they're going to 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:09.760 stand for something, that they're going to let their core 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.000 values be known, and then you know everyone does it 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.080 and it means nothing to anyone. Right, So now you 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.560 have the up, you have another problem coming up, and 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.960 I think, you know, I would love to know from 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.280 like a more of a media perspective, how do you 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.320 make sure that it's not just a flash in the 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:30.399