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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: The vault is open and it beckons. That's right. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the vault is giving us bees this week, lots of

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Speaker 1: bees covered in bees. Yes, they're everywhere because we are

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Speaker 1: revisiting an episode that originally published March seventeenth, two thousand sixteen,

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Speaker 1: in which we chat with author entomologist Jean Kritsky, author

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Speaker 1: of a wonderful book titled The Tears of Ray. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this episode was a lot of fun. Jean was great

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Speaker 1: to talk to, and I remember it fondly, as I

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Speaker 1: often do BE related topics, but especially be related topics

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Speaker 1: that can get into ancient mythology. Yeah, you have ancient

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Speaker 1: Egypt and honey bees. Uh, what's not to love? Author

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Speaker 1: in my eyes? All right, let's dive in. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind from housetup works dot com.

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Speaker 1: The god Ray wept, and the tears from his eyes

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Speaker 1: fell on the ground and turned into a bee. The

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Speaker 1: bee made his honeycomb and busied himself with the flowers

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Speaker 1: of every plant, and so wax was made and also

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Speaker 1: honey out of the Tears of Ray. H Hey, welcome

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Speaker 1: to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert

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Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And that was a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little reading. Robert, what was that? That quote comes to

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Speaker 1: us from a nine translation of a three hundred b

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Speaker 1: CE bit of writing. It's it's essentially cursive hieroglyphs, which

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Speaker 1: is called the hieratic writing. And more specifically, this wonderful

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Speaker 1: uh little expert comes from a book titled The Tears

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Speaker 1: of Ray be Keeping an Ancient Egypt by Jean Kritzky.

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Speaker 1: And at the end of this episode we're going to

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Speaker 1: chat with the author just a little bit about some

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Speaker 1: of the material we're discussing here and about the book

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Speaker 1: The Tears of Ray. This was a very interesting book.

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Speaker 1: Robert and I both read it for this episode, and

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Speaker 1: it essentially it covers the relationship between the ancient Egyptians

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Speaker 1: and the honeybee, the complex economic, religious, and scientific relationship,

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Speaker 1: you might say, going back and forth between them. But

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Speaker 1: we should start, I guess with Ray, because that's the

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Speaker 1: focus of the poems segment you read at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Who is Ray? Ray? You may be more familiar with

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Speaker 1: the name Raw are a uh, the sun god, the

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Speaker 1: creator god of the ancient Egyptians, as often depicted as

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Speaker 1: sort of like a bird's head, the head of a falcon,

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Speaker 1: but also a sun disc that travels across the sky

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Speaker 1: and then of as dusk it gets eaten and then

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Speaker 1: goes into the underworld. Well, actually I think those are

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Speaker 1: two different myths. Right, it goes into the underworld and

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Speaker 1: then comes back out. But there's another version where Ray

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Speaker 1: gets eaten and then gets re birthed. Yeah, and there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a lot of material about the like he

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Speaker 1: travels across the sky and a solar barge, and then

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Speaker 1: there's a different barge that travels through the underworld at night,

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Speaker 1: and and sometimes the additional gods on those barges. It's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very complex. One of the things I definitely

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Speaker 1: did find out from this book is that these days,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be in line with the academic

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Speaker 1: Egyptology community, you say Ray, not Raw. Now. I I

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Speaker 1: got Raw from the movie Stargate, where Raw is the

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Speaker 1: bad guy who is essentially an alien version of an

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Speaker 1: Egyptian god. But but that that's not anymore, it's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Plus most most Egyptologists dismiss uh Stargate as a reputable

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Speaker 1: source of real days. Yeah. I don't know why, but

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Speaker 1: but yeah, this this episode, I hopefully what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do here is is we will will allow you to

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Speaker 1: leave the podcast with maybe a little more understanding and

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Speaker 1: respect for the kingdom of the bees and a little

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Speaker 1: more respect and understanding for the kingdom of ancient Egypt,

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Speaker 1: because there's a there's so much complexity in both and uh,

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Speaker 1: and it's fascinating to sort of look here at this

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Speaker 1: this kingdom within a kingdom and how they how they

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Speaker 1: were related to each other. Oh, the b kingdom within

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Speaker 1: the Egyptian yea, because because yeah, we have a monarch, uh,

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Speaker 1: monarchy within the honey bee hive, and then workers we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of workers toiling away involved in this industry.

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Speaker 1: And then uh, we have this we have ancient Egypt.

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Speaker 1: We have another monarchy with a very complex system of order. Uh,

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Speaker 1: A lot of industry going on, a lot of workers

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Speaker 1: toiling to make it all possible. And also sort of

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Speaker 1: a two ways cyber by addic symbiotic relationship. Yeah. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: but I guess we should start with the bee first,

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Speaker 1: because obviously the b pre dates ancient Egypt as a civilization,

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Speaker 1: probably not the land mass. So Robert, where do bees

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Speaker 1: come from? Well, I'm glad you asked, Joe. Let me

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Speaker 1: tell you about the bees. Uh, you'd have to travel

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Speaker 1: back about a hundred million maybe a hundred thirty million years,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you're talking to, all the way back

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Speaker 1: to the Cretaceous period. Okay, you'd find dinosaurs roam to

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Speaker 1: the earth. Yeah. Yeah, we're going away back here, and

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Speaker 1: you find a world rather different than the one we're

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Speaker 1: we encountered today. Uh, devoid of flowering plants and occupied

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Speaker 1: mostly by conifers, which depend on the wind to spread

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Speaker 1: their seats. Can you imagine that? I mean a world

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Speaker 1: where where reproduction depends entirely on the whims of the weather.

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Speaker 1: Like can you imagine if animals Because trees can't walk

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Speaker 1: around and find each other to mate, they're stuck in

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Speaker 1: place ease and bushes, you know, whatever you want. Plants

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Speaker 1: are not very mobile, so they essentially have to spray

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Speaker 1: their reproductive material into the air, just hoping it gets

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Speaker 1: somewhere worthwhile by chance. Yeah. Indeed, this is just an

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Speaker 1: earlier state, and there's just the the the evolution of

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Speaker 1: seed transfer. So there are no flowers and there's certainly

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Speaker 1: no pollination. Now there were There were no bees at

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Speaker 1: this point, but there were wasps. And these wasps were

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Speaker 1: also kind of different from the wasps that we encounter today.

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Speaker 1: They were hymenoptera, the order that wasts and bees are in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: indeed they were, now they were, but they were carnivorous.

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Speaker 1: They preyed on spiders and other insects and many of

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Speaker 1: which in turn fed on vegetation. Uh so a lot. So,

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Speaker 1: so we have a traffic going on here all right.

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Speaker 1: Seeds are going into the air, the wasps are eating

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Speaker 1: the insects that live on the plants. But plant of

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Speaker 1: evolution eventually begins to make the most out of this

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Speaker 1: constant insect traffic, using it like the wind and to

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Speaker 1: carry a genetic material from plant to plant, and this

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Speaker 1: results in the rise of angiosperms. These are plants that

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Speaker 1: depend on insects to spread genetic material and pollen from

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Speaker 1: male plant parts called anthers to female parts called stigmas.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those moments I often want to say, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: how smart that is. It's like as if somebody planned it. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course it wasn't These are just the the wonderful

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Speaker 1: ingenuities of evolution acting upon the environment. But uh, it's

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Speaker 1: fascinating how things like this come about. So you have

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Speaker 1: to imagine a system where these plants are pollinating by wind,

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Speaker 1: but they have this this sperm the pollination material I

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Speaker 1: guess you would say pollen. Uh, And somehow insects start

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Speaker 1: getting this stuff on their bodies. Right, Essentially, a new

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Speaker 1: wind emerges and that wind is the movement of these insects.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course, once that works out for long enough,

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Speaker 1: plants sort of evolve traits to specialize in that mode

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Speaker 1: of transmission. It's no longer accident, it's how they work now.

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Speaker 1: In indeed, you see the the emergence of the delicious

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Speaker 1: nectar to sweeten the deal for the pollen carrying insects,

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Speaker 1: saying hey, come here, get all nice and covered in polony.

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Speaker 1: And I'm totally anthropomorphizing the entire process here, My apologies,

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Speaker 1: but but yeah, essentially bribing the insects with the with

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Speaker 1: the the delicious nectar to get them to carry the pollen,

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Speaker 1: giving them a specific reason to traffic the parts of

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Speaker 1: the plant where pollen is produced. So I can imagine

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Speaker 1: if you're some wasp d thirty five thirty million years

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Speaker 1: ago and you've been hunting insects. That's that's tough work,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really tough. Now, if you could

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Speaker 1: just start getting all of your meals from a passive

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Speaker 1: plant that will sit there and let you just lap

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Speaker 1: up delicious sweet things from its open maw, that I mean,

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Speaker 1: what a nice deal. Yeah, Yes, suddenly there's this, there's

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Speaker 1: this wonderful new way to get the food you need now. Granted,

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Speaker 1: there's still there's still sort of tie to their predatory past,

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Speaker 1: and indeed today, um you'll you have you can look

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Speaker 1: at most common wasps and they're depending upon upon nectar

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Speaker 1: as their primary food, but they still have to turn

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Speaker 1: to their carnivorous ways when it comes to rearing their young,

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Speaker 1: implanting their young in the belly off another creature wasps.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, which is just a wonderful area that

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Speaker 1: we have explored in past podcast and I'm sure will

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Speaker 1: return in the future. Christian and I talked about it

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Speaker 1: in our X Files episode. Yes of course, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: parasitoid wasps are Not only is it just an endlessly

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Speaker 1: fascinating area, but we just get new studies each year

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Speaker 1: with either a new type of parasitoid wasp or some

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Speaker 1: new details about a species we are already familiar with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the wasps evolved to to live off of what

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Speaker 1: is provided by the plants, and in an interesting way,

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Speaker 1: I think we could think about this as the plants

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Speaker 1: domesticating livestock. Yeah, the plants have domesticated the live stock

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Speaker 1: of in insects in order to do their bidding. And

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Speaker 1: of course the wasps are one thing, but it's the

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Speaker 1: bees where we really see this takeoff, because of course

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Speaker 1: bees evolve from wasps, they're all related. But the bees

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Speaker 1: are actually they're getting the nectar. They're bringing it back

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Speaker 1: for their young. They're they're they're they're they're creating honey,

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Speaker 1: they're creating these uh, these these waxy nests. They are

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Speaker 1: completely beholden to the nectar. Uh. They're no longer going

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Speaker 1: out and and specifically killing other creatures to rear their young. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so when we're talking about honey bees, true honey bees,

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Speaker 1: that this is the genus APIs right, Yes, and that's

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Speaker 1: why we also refer to it as uh is apriculture.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bee keeping not the keeping of apes. A

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Speaker 1: fun fact to remember, by the way, next time you're

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Speaker 1: adding a dab of honey to your earl gray tea,

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Speaker 1: Is that honey is bee barf? Right? Yes? Is how

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Speaker 1: honey is produced. It's produced by uh bees grabbing some

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Speaker 1: sweet nectar, which is pretty much sugar water from plants

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Speaker 1: and then going through a complex process of regurgitation and evaporation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they're kind of uh, you know, distilling it, refining

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Speaker 1: it through their They're just regigitation of the material, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I should I should also mentioned that, uh, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to two bees, we have bumble bees, we

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Speaker 1: have stingless bees, and we even have a few other

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Speaker 1: non bee species that produce honey and small amounts. But

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Speaker 1: for the most part, we're you know, we're dealing with

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Speaker 1: those uh, those APIs honey bees, which are the superstars,

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Speaker 1: the generators of like a true bounty and excess of honey,

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Speaker 1: uh in the amount that it makes sense for humans

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Speaker 1: to raise them and pillage their stores. Now, when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, I used to wonder how we eat honey.

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Speaker 1: But I know bees make honey. I did not know

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Speaker 1: that they barfed honey up for us. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that they made honey, but I didn't know what they

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Speaker 1: did with it. I was like, why do they make it?

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Speaker 1: Is it just? What is it? What's it for? Did

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Speaker 1: the bees themselves eat the honey? Yeah, they stored as

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Speaker 1: a primary food source. They also eat what is called

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Speaker 1: bee bread, which is a semiary cute name. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's essentially like a pollen cake, you know. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the the honey is a food source for the bee people,

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Speaker 1: if you will. Um, And they stored away and those

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Speaker 1: waxy cells in the honeycomb. But you mentioned wax. Of course,

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Speaker 1: wax is another important byproduct of bee culture. It's it's

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Speaker 1: their second great technology, yes, indeed, and uh and the

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Speaker 1: wax that the workers actually secrete from specialized glands on

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Speaker 1: the underside of their abdomen's wait what they secrete it? Yeah? Essentially,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can think of them as like wax nipples.

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Speaker 1: I guess, um, the bee the bees have wax nipples

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Speaker 1: and they put out the wax and what it's a

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Speaker 1: little flaky lipids for us. Yeah, And they get the

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Speaker 1: raw materials for this metabolized product through the consumption of

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Speaker 1: that honey and that be bread, which we already mentioned

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Speaker 1: and the be bread. Uh I should also have have

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Speaker 1: pointed out that it's essentially a collected fermented pollen. So um,

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Speaker 1: so these service the so it kind of goes around

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Speaker 1: in a circle, right, the nectar, the honey, the wax,

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Speaker 1: this whole um, this whole little little city for the insects,

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Speaker 1: built from the bounty of the flowers. Yeah. Now, long

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Speaker 1: before humans started formalized apriculture, before they started making bee

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Speaker 1: hives to keep bees in to sort of have an

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Speaker 1: agriculture of insects, they hunted honey. Right, there was wild

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Speaker 1: honey hunting. The same way you would hunt game in

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Speaker 1: the forest or on the savannah, you could hunt honey

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Speaker 1: just as it occurred in a bee hive that might

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Speaker 1: be hanging from a tree. And there are actually ancient

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Speaker 1: works of cave art that depict this. Yeah, there's still

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Speaker 1: also honey hunting traditions that survived to this day. And

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Speaker 1: it's essentially the same thing a bear does. Right of

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Speaker 1: a bear breaks into a honey hive or a honey badger,

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Speaker 1: it goes after some some bees as well. You just

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Speaker 1: you find out where the hive is, you locate it,

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Speaker 1: and then you you who is the best skills at

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Speaker 1: your disposal to break in there and get as much

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Speaker 1: dripping honeycomb as possible and run off with it. Now,

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Speaker 1: Krisky's book has an illustration, or not an illustration. It

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Speaker 1: does have an illustration, but also a photo of this

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Speaker 1: great cave painting from Spain that seems to depict honey

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Speaker 1: hunting from How how old is this thing? Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: dates back seven thousand to eight thousand years, so that

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Speaker 1: gives us a rough estimate not not not where it began,

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Speaker 1: but at least how far it probably goes. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so what what's depicted in the painting is this great setup.

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Speaker 1: It looks like a scene from a movie where you've

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Speaker 1: got somebody hanging from a rope apparently off a cliff,

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Speaker 1: being lowered down to an area where there's a tree

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Speaker 1: with a bee's nest hanging off of it, and reaching

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Speaker 1: in to grab the honey and you can see bees

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Speaker 1: swarming around the person. I mean, that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: trust in whoever's holding the rope, right, yeah, and uh

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Speaker 1: and and and you know you're just getting just the

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Speaker 1: b Jesus stung out of you the whole time. But

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Speaker 1: it's just such I mean especially in a energy density,

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Speaker 1: energy counsity of that of that that score. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this stuff is just it's pure gold, uh, nutritionally speaking,

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Speaker 1: so you're going to occasionally do what it takes to

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Speaker 1: get it and bring it back, not to mention the

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Speaker 1: value you're going to have bringing that stuff back to

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Speaker 1: your community. But I guess we should now look at

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Speaker 1: when when true apriculture started. When did we start having

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Speaker 1: bee hives where where we sort of set up an

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Speaker 1: enclosure and said bees go live in there, here's where

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Speaker 1: you should make your homes, and they obeyed. Alright, So

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Speaker 1: it's best we can tell. Bee keeping probably emerged by accident,

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Speaker 1: probably in the fertile crescent um. And probably what you

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Speaker 1: had happened was you have human industries is creating all

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Speaker 1: of these different pots and containers, uh for your various

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Speaker 1: agricultural efforts, and one might leave a pot hanging around

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Speaker 1: somewhere unused. Suddenly some bees come in, they take up

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Speaker 1: a resident in the pot, and this could theoretically serve

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Speaker 1: as as like the first accidental bee hive that's actually

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Speaker 1: kept by the beekeepers and they realize, oh bees will

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Speaker 1: will will actually build their nest in this uh, the spot.

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Speaker 1: If I leave it out for them, there's a chance

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Speaker 1: I'll have my own captive honey. I've yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: talk about turning a loss into a wind. So imagine

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Speaker 1: you know you've got this jar that you were planning

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Speaker 1: on keeping full of urgad infested rye uh, and you

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Speaker 1: go back to get it and suddenly it's full of

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Speaker 1: bees and you're like, oh man, my plans are spoiled.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get stung cleaning this thing out. But then

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Speaker 1: you realize you have access to all this sweet sweet honey. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and not only the honey, but the wax. The

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Speaker 1: wax is key because uh, there is evidence of lost

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Speaker 1: wax castings uh dating back to thirty BC. Now a

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Speaker 1: lost wax casting for anyone not familiar, this has to

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Speaker 1: do with, uh with a cast used to make uh

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Speaker 1: like a metal objects in which it's you build like

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Speaker 1: the clay or what have you, around a wax model

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Speaker 1: of the thing you're going to build, and then you

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Speaker 1: melt the wax out of there. And while you have

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Speaker 1: this mold which you can use to make metal tacks.

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Speaker 1: It's a way of turning easily multiple wax into metal,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty awesome. Yeah. So the only thing here

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Speaker 1: is that you don't have to be a beekeeper to

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Speaker 1: get that wax. That wax could have been obtained through

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Speaker 1: honey hunting. We just don't know. Um. But when when

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Speaker 1: it comes to actually finding the the earliest evidence of

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Speaker 1: bee raising, of bee keeping, then you really have to

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Speaker 1: go to the Egyptians, to the ancient Egyptians. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: this would put us around three thousand BC. That's five

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago. Yeah. I mean it's amazing just to consider,

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Speaker 1: completely separate from the topic of beekeeping, how enormously long

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Speaker 1: ancient Egypt went on. Yeah, we're talking roughly. You have

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Speaker 1: five thousand years of of human history wound up in

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Speaker 1: the ancient Egyptians. U A a civilization that after you know,

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Speaker 1: even when it was going it was it was an

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Speaker 1: ancient civilization. Um. And of course it's gonna it's impossible

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Speaker 1: for us to summarize, you know, thousands of years of

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Speaker 1: ancient history, the ebb and flow of political and social

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Speaker 1: change here. Uh. You know, in the In the same

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Speaker 1: way that Egyptian history is tied closely to the Nile,

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Speaker 1: so too is the region's history a long, twisting, swelling,

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Speaker 1: shrinking movement. Across the landscape of human history. But to summarize,

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Speaker 1: we're talking the civilization of ancient North Africa, generally attributed

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Speaker 1: to lasting from roughly thirty one hundred BC to three

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Speaker 1: and twenty two uh see. So that's talking about the

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Speaker 1: transition out of the Stone Age, out of the Nearithic period,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of large scale civilization in ancient Egypt until

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Speaker 1: the time I think they mark the end of it

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Speaker 1: with the time that the last hieroglyphic carvings were made

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Speaker 1: in Egypt. Yes, and it's the one in three hundred

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Speaker 1: some things. He correct. Now. You can also some historians

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Speaker 1: um And and authors including Jane Chrisky also go ahead

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Speaker 1: and include that Neolithic period and that would put the

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Speaker 1: beginning around fifty undred BC. So that's where you would

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Speaker 1: get a total time period of around uh five thousand,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty three years of culture. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: for those of you who think it's been forever since

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Speaker 1: the American Revolution or something like that, it is such

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Speaker 1: a tiny blip. Modern history is such a tiny blip

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Speaker 1: humans who really dwarfs the modern age. So you know,

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Speaker 1: that's essentially the time period we're talking about, and during

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Speaker 1: that time the ancient Egyptians demonstrated their expertise of a

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Speaker 1: number of general and highly specialized categories and skills. They

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Speaker 1: were accomplished farmers and engineers. They were artists and linguists.

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Speaker 1: They were soldiers, they were astrologers, they were doctors, and

341
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Speaker 1: much more. I mean, everyone knows about the Pyramids and

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Speaker 1: areous architectural marvel marvels that survived this day. Everyone knows

343
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Speaker 1: about the rich history of mummification, which we've talked about

344
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Speaker 1: here on the show before, but there other stuff just

345
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Speaker 1: continues continually fascinates me when I read about it. For instance,

346
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Speaker 1: to find out that ancient Egyptians perform surgical skin graphs

347
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Speaker 1: as early as eight hundred BC UM and uh, indeed,

348
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Speaker 1: as we're discussing in this episode, that they practice uh

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Speaker 1: the earliest known examples of apriculture. Okay, well, once Egyptian

350
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Speaker 1: civilization is underway, once we've got our our dynasties and

351
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Speaker 1: our organized hierarchical civilization and culture, we we should look

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Speaker 1: at the role bees and honey played in that. And

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Speaker 1: one of the first things I think we can observe

354
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Speaker 1: is that there is a glyph in the ancient Egyptian

355
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Speaker 1: hieroglyphic language. It's one of their symbols, that's a honey bee.

356
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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, it's um. It shows up in some

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Speaker 1: of the earliest examples of ancient Egyptian writing. UM. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we we see it in use by the Old Kingdom

359
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Speaker 1: that's h D seven through. And we probably shouldn't try

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Speaker 1: to get too much into talking about the different ages

361
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Speaker 1: froch in Egypt, but essentially there's an Old Kingdom that

362
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Speaker 1: goes on for a long time with many Pharaonic dynasties,

363
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Speaker 1: and then there's an intermediate period that's sort of like

364
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Speaker 1: a Dark Age, and then there is a Middle Kingdom,

365
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Speaker 1: and then there's another break in that there's another intermediate period,

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Speaker 1: and then there's a new Kingdom, and then of course

367
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Speaker 1: there's the Greco Roman period. But but essentially coming into

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Speaker 1: the Middle Age. Yeah, but but essentially at this point,

369
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Speaker 1: just think of this that the Great Pyramid and the

370
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Speaker 1: Sphinx are there, they're relatively newly constructed, and there's evidence

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Speaker 1: already that the Egyptians had at that point uh mastered

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Speaker 1: to some degree beekeeping and we're producing honey Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: according to um to Kritsky, here there's evidence from around

374
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Speaker 1: this point that you actually had a a row in

375
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Speaker 1: the in the governmental structure known as the seiler of honey.

376
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Speaker 1: There's an individual who was the seiler of honey, and

377
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Speaker 1: this at least suggests either very organized honey hunting or

378
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Speaker 1: quite possibly the beginnings of industrialized um beekeeping. You know,

379
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Speaker 1: I love this title that you see throughout ancient Egypt.

380
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Speaker 1: The seiler. Yeah, the person who seals and that that

381
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Speaker 1: abuse an authority. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of

382
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Speaker 1: our our recent episode on the INCA, and we talked

383
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Speaker 1: about the importance within a government, with importance within an empire,

384
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Speaker 1: of of having a way to of course record uh,

385
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Speaker 1: you know, amounts when it comes to goods, the the

386
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Speaker 1: price of goods, the exchange of goods, and then also

387
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Speaker 1: being able to to seal it and say this is

388
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Speaker 1: what is contained within and uh and someone is accountable

389
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah. It's a very wonderful physical metaphor for

390
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Speaker 1: having the final word on something. But so we do

391
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Speaker 1: see in ancient in Egypt the evidence of the first

392
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Speaker 1: organized beekeeping, right. Yeah. The The current earliest known evidence

393
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Speaker 1: takes this uh to uh around UH hundred and thirteen

394
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Speaker 1: d c E and specifically, it takes us to the

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Speaker 1: solar temple chasap be Brick. So what we have here

396
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Speaker 1: within the ruins of this solar temple, that's again it's

397
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: it's devoted to to ray. We see decorative color reliefs

398
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Speaker 1: that show off scenes of desert wildlife, boating and beep keeping. Yeah,

399
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Speaker 1: and it's got these different vignettes that actually showed the stage.

400
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just sort of like a cartoon like, oh,

401
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: here are some people beekeeping it. It's sort of, uh, comprehensive.

402
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: It shows the different steps you take in order to

403
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Speaker 1: do the main jobs of a beekeeper. Yeah, and uh,

404
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of interpretation that has to take

405
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Speaker 1: place in figuring out exactly what they're showing and exactly

406
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Speaker 1: what those of vignettes are showing. They especially because some

407
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 1: part of it are missing. Yeah, some parts are missing

408
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: androw damage and uh and depending on what's going on there,

409
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: you know that that ends up impacting our understanding of

410
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Speaker 1: exactly how advanced they were. So for instance, that there's

411
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Speaker 1: one of the vignettes in particular represents a man either

412
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Speaker 1: using a smoker to control the bees or he's calling

413
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Speaker 1: a queen to enter a jug. Now, either one of

414
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: those options is very interesting, and we should talk about

415
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Speaker 1: what that actually means. To to smoke the bees or

416
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Speaker 1: to call the queen. Yeah, the smoking thing. I think

417
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Speaker 1: most people are familiar with this because if you've seen

418
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Speaker 1: any footage or just or even just in the course

419
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Speaker 1: of your life, if you've seen beekeeping, you've probably seen

420
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Speaker 1: people using a smoker because the smoke, uh, calms the bees.

421
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Speaker 1: That's a nice way. It's a nice way of putting it. Yeah,

422
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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's a weapon you get to use

423
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Speaker 1: against the bees so you can pill with their goods.

424
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: It's like saying tear gas calms the crowd. Yeah, yeah,

425
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: but it works. And when you try and figure out

426
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: exactly how this came about, you know, who knows. Somebody

427
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: was getting stung by bees and they leveled their torch

428
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: at them and they noticed the smoke helped. Or perhaps

429
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: one was making a burnt offering, and they found that

430
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,239
Speaker 1: the incense, Uh, the smoke from the incense calmed the bees. Uh.

431
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: You know, there are a couple of different ends there. Now.

432
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: The calling is also a fascinating possibility. Whichever one he's

433
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: doing here. If he's calling it seems to be that

434
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: he's got to bee hive up to his face and

435
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: he's making sounds with his mouth into the beehive to

436
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: get the bees to do something, which which is just amazing. Now,

437
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: how exactly would this work? What would he be doing? Well,

438
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: it's known as is piping, and uh, it's it's a

439
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: very real thing, and it's also still practiced in some

440
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: beekeeping traditions, especially in Egypt to this day. Like even

441
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: despite all that has fallen away from ancient Egypt and

442
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: modern Egyptian culture, you still see some of these traditional

443
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: beekeeping practices that are utilized there. So essentially what's happening

444
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: here is a bee keeper mimics the queen's audible communication.

445
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: So the queen is pushing her thorax against the honeycomb

446
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: and vibrating her wing muscles without moving her wings. Uh,

447
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: and it creates this um. It's a it's a a

448
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: a long tone followed by a series of short burst

449
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: and I've heard it described as zeep, zeep, zeep. There's

450
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: also a cack cack, yeah right, yeah, yeah, So they're

451
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: there are different tones that the bees make to one

452
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: another to communicate, to signal. Essentially, what they need to

453
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: do in the next stage of a reproductive process, like

454
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: if a if a young queen is within the nest

455
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: right and specifically here, my understanding is that what the

456
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: the bee caller is doing is creating the sound of

457
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: an emergent virgin queen, and then that would cause the

458
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: existing monarch or another emergent queen to come forward and

459
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: fight herr and try to kill her. Uh calling her out? Yeah,

460
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: calling her out. So you're you're manipulating the bees speaking

461
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: their language in order to draw the queen away so

462
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: that you can put her in a bottle, move her

463
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 1: to another hive, and use her presence to manipulate the

464
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: uh your creation of new hives or just moving the

465
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: existing hive. Yeah. So just the idea of of a

466
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: human being able to make bee sounds to talk to

467
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: the bees is fascinating on its own. Also that they

468
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: figured this out in ancient Egypt, but there are other

469
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: techniques displayed at Newer Sara in these solar temple as well. Right. Yeah,

470
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: there's another vignette that seems like it shows a man

471
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: pouring something from a spout. So this might be honey

472
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: taken from the hive. It might be honey that's just

473
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: separated from the wax. They might be deluding it. Um,

474
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: we're deluding the honey honey with water. And I remember

475
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: reading in Krinsky's book that that that some have commented

476
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: on this and thought, well, maybe they were making meat

477
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: or something. Um, you know, because you can of course

478
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: take honey and create an alcoholic average from it. But

479
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: there's apparently no real evidence that that's what was actually

480
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: taking place here. Though they apparently did add honey, perhaps

481
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: in deluded form, to their alcohol. Yeah, so they sweetened

482
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: wine or beer with it, but they didn't make meat

483
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: as far as we know. As far as we know. Yeah, now,

484
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: looking at these vignettes, I wanted to observe something that

485
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: struck me as quite strange. Throughout this book and so

486
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: meaning throughout ancient Egypt, there are lots of pictures of bees.

487
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I mean, this makes sense because we have this b glyph,

488
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: this standard be illustration that's part of the hieroglyphic language,

489
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, the written language system. But they're also all

490
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: these illustrations of bees that appear in vignettes and carvings

491
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: throughout ancient Egypt, depicting a swarm of bees or a

492
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: bee next to a jar showing that the jar has

493
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: honey in it, or in these beekeeping scenes, and I

494
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: noticed very often it looks to me like these bees

495
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: do not have a correct number of legs. Indeed, yeah,

496
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: and I feel like I don't want to be pedantic here,

497
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: but often you see the bees with four legs, or

498
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: you see them with three legs. I can understand the

499
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: three legs, because we know insects have six legs. The

500
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: three legs maybe you're just seeing one side of the bee,

501
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: so each leg stands for a pair. But the ones

502
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: where it shows four legs or maybe five legs, like

503
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: four forward legs and one back legs sticking out, those

504
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: are strange to me, especially since there's like no animal

505
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: on earth that has an odd number of legs. But anyway,

506
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: this four legged ancient be sort of it rang a

507
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: bell vaguely in the back of my mind, and I

508
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: was like, where do I know that concept from before?

509
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: And it was it was it was saying to me

510
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: go back to Sunday school. So I did. I checked

511
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: it out. I looked in the Bible, and bingo in

512
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: the Bible, in in the the Hebrew Bible, in Leviticus

513
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: eleven twenty to twenty three, we read about four legged

514
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: insects in a part of the Ancient Hebrew dietary restrictions.

515
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: So I just want to read this selection of Leviticus

516
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: from the New American Standard translations. Is this is referring

517
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: to which insects that are are kosher, Yeah, which you

518
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: can and can't eat? And so the translation reads like this,

519
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: all the winged insects that walk on all fours are

520
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: detestable to you. Yet these you may eat. Among the

521
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: winged insects which walk on all fours, those which have

522
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on

523
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: the earth. These of them you may eat. The locust

524
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: and its kinds, and the devastating locusts and its kinds,

525
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in

526
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: its kinds. But all other winged insects which are four footed,

527
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: are detestable to you. Now, obviously I'm not trying to

528
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: like hammer these ancient people, like what a bunch of dummies.

529
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't dummies. You wouldn't expect either the

530
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian artists who created the solar temple carving, or

531
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: any of these other carvings and illustrations. Uh, Nor would

532
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: you expect the Jewish author who wrote this part of

533
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: Leviticus to be kind of entomologists studying bees up close

534
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: and locusts to see how many legs they have. Right,

535
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: there's a division in Egyptian society, and the individuals who

536
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: are who are keeping the bees are probably separate from

537
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: those that are actually carving the hieroglyphics. Yeah. So I'm

538
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: certainly not saying that they're stupid. They should have known better,

539
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: But but it just did seem like an interesting coincidence

540
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: that multiple ancient people's would get this wrong. And also,

541
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: as I kept reading in the book, I came across

542
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: more art that depicted bees this way is on this

543
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: Old Kingdom seal amulet, on a Middle Kingdom Scarab carving,

544
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: And so it just made me wonder, is there a

545
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: widespread belief in the ancient Near East that insects had

546
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: four legs? Well, you know, after you brought this to

547
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: my attention, I was looking around a little about it,

548
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: and certainly there's there's a lot of just pointless information

549
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: out there, with people either using this as as an

550
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: argument against religion and against the Bible saying, Hey, they

551
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: got the number of legs on a on a on

552
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: a asshopper. Long, how wrong? How can you trust anything? Yeah?

553
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: I read in Food and Culture a Reader by Carol

554
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: Counahan and Penny than Estric that that possibly the I mean,

555
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: the biblical distinction here is more about insects that walk

556
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: versus those that that fly, or at least kind of

557
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: have that live in that area between true flight and

558
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: uh and walking. So in that case, it would be

559
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: saying something like the saying having four legs or going

560
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: on all fours, which the Bible passage says, in which

561
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: these b images indicate it's not really about counting the

562
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: number of legs. It's more just kind of like this

563
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: is in the category of things that crawl, right, that

564
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: it's a land animal and that but bees fly. Bees fly,

565
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: so they're okay. So it's more like saying, don't eat

566
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: that the insect land animals. But then then another thing

567
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: that comes to mind here is just the law of

568
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: conservation of detail, which is the reason that everybody in

569
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: the Simpsons would only have four digits on each hand,

570
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: and why you do see a number of bees and

571
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: other insects and cartoons that have the wrong number of limbs,

572
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: because ultimately, when you're recreating these things that on a smaller,

573
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: unreal scale, you are forced to to use an inaccurate

574
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: number of limbs or digits. Oh well, that seems like

575
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: a very logical explanation to me, especially for the the

576
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: illustrations of the bees. Yeah, and certainly worth remembering for

577
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: future alien civilizations that come to our plan and try

578
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 1: and figure out the Simpsons what is what are they

579
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: trying to tell us? What? What is with the fingers?

580
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: So um, it's first of all, it's it's interesting to

581
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: just discuss the importance of of honey as a trade good.

582
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: I was really fascinated by this, uh, because it's it's

583
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: Critsky points out Egyptian societies didn't a society didn't really

584
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: have a currency. I mean they sort of didn't. They

585
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 1: didn't have a physical currency, had like they had an

586
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: ideal currency which they would use to Essentially, the way

587
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: it worked is you had a measure of a certain metal,

588
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: like copper, and then you would have certain quantities of

589
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: that copper, but you wouldn't actually hold the copper in

590
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: your hand. So if you were owed, for example, five debans,

591
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: of copper. You would be paid five debans of copper

592
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: worth of grain or something like that. Yeah, and there

593
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: would be there would also be cases where if you

594
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: were supposed to pay or be paid in grain and

595
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: they did not have the grain, you might pay in honey.

596
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: So honey in a in a sense was the currency.

597
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: But and it was valuable for what I understand, and

598
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: that value would go up and down, but it was

599
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: it was a valuable commodity. It wasn't something that everybody

600
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: beating all the time. It was sort of a luxury

601
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: food item. Yeah, a luxury food item as well as

602
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: we'll discuss an item that is that is utilized in

603
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: medicine and magic. So you're saying honey was money, Yeah,

604
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: honey was money. And since honey was money, honey was

605
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: of course also an industry, a state run industry. Um

606
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: that they were the edge of ancient Egyptians where a

607
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 1: civil organization, and that's how they that's how they built

608
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: their wonders, that's how they made their honey. They had

609
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: a system of beekeepers, overseers, overseers too to look over

610
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: those overseers. They're just a whole um you know, system, uh,

611
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: to regulate the production of honey and then ultimately the

612
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: trade of honey with other with other cultures. But of

613
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: course the honey also had a great spiritual significance within

614
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: Egyptian religion and their their their priesthood and their mythology. Right. Yeah,

615
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: I mean we we already talked about the tears of ray.

616
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: The bee is the tear of ray, and the sun

617
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: god cries and his his tears become a gift to

618
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: us that gives us this sweet, sweet food. Yeah, it

619
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: is uh, it is the the product of a of

620
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: a holy animal to the ancient Egyptians and certainly too.

621
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's golden, It glistens when the sunlight hits it.

622
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: It appears to close. You can you can easily imagine

623
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: just carrying a little of your your symbolic, magical understanding

624
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: of the world into your your contemplation of honey. It's

625
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: just it's this, this potent, perfect thing. Now. Of course,

626
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: in the ancient world, we often see an association between

627
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: healing and religious ritual. That it's very likely in an

628
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: ancient culture that you might find the medicines and the

629
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: doctors sort of overlapping with the priesthood and the sacred

630
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: rights that there wasn't always so much of a distinction

631
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: between science based medicine and magic based medicine. And you

632
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: certainly see that come through with honey, because honey actually

633
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: does have known medical uses that are truly effective. Uh.

634
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: It was also used as a you know, a sort

635
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: of functional medicine, but also as a magical medicine in

636
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: ancient Egypt. That's right. Yeah, I mean we're in a

637
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: we're in a city suation where the best minds are

638
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: using the materials at hand to try and treat injuries

639
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: and disease. Some of it is working, some of it

640
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: is sort of working, some of it's not working, but

641
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: maybe it seems to work, and some of it just

642
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: feels right within the uh uh, you know, the framework

643
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: of their worldview. So it's interesting that Egyptian physicians who

644
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: were at the time were considered some of the best

645
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: in the world. Like this was again in ancient Egypt.

646
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: You found skin drafts taking place. Um. So, an Egyptian

647
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: physician would treat a wound, but they would also give

648
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: you a wax amulet to burn. Uh. And and this

649
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: is key because because because you take the wax, all right,

650
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: you make a candle from the wax or just this amulet,

651
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: and when it burns, it burns up brightly, and it

652
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: burns up completely. So symbolically and by extension magically, it

653
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: consumes the illness, burning completely. Mean there's no ash left,

654
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: no ash at all. I mean, so there's this almost

655
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: a magical quality to that. You'd expect ash from all

656
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: of the other burning you do in your normal life.

657
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: I mean, we all burn a lot of things, but

658
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: there's always some evidence left behind. If you can burn

659
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: this wax figuring up completely, something does seem very otherworldly

660
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, and you burn it. You burn this

661
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: thing that is made from this substance that comes from

662
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: the creature that in turn came from the God of

663
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: the sign. Now, speaking of the sacred or religious aspects,

664
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't pardon me this indulgence, but I could not

665
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: help but notice that sort of understanding. The science behind

666
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: the emergence of beekeeping is to see the biological evolution

667
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: of a trinity between three organisms. So you've got your

668
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: auto trophes, your pollinators, and your domesticators. The auto trophes

669
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: are the plants, you know, These are the creators of

670
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: the energy in this chain, and they create nectar from sunlight,

671
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: so they turned the sunlight photo energy into sugar. Then

672
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: the pollinators, the bees in a way or sort of

673
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: the redeemers, they convert this, uh, this scant nectar that

674
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: the plants produce through a process of sacred barfing, into

675
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: very highly concentrated and prized, valuable honey. And then of

676
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: course the domesticators, which are the human beekeepers are I

677
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: would think of them sort of as like the order

678
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 1: the logos that holds this whole system in place. And

679
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: in biological terms, it's a three way symbiosis. It's three

680
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: ways that organisms are all interacting and all benefiting from

681
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: the system. And in terms of the religious context, you've

682
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: got this trinity. And I was just trying to think

683
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: of other cases in the natural world where we see

684
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: domestication taking this form of a three way symbiosis. I mean, obviously,

685
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: like grass converts sunlight into chemical energy and then our

686
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 1: cattle eat that. But I don't know if you'd say

687
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: that symbiotic for the grass, like does the grass benefit

688
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: from being eaten by cattle in the same way that

689
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: the plants benefit from being pollinated by the bees. Yeah,

690
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: I was I was trying to think of any other

691
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: examples earlier. And you know, I think you can sort

692
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: of stretch it and apply it to to to other organisms.

693
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: But it it's it's hard to think of an example

694
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: where it applies so perfectly and so, you know, just

695
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: so you know, symbolically. But anyway, let's get back to

696
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: bees wax and some some ancient apicultural voodoo. Okay, yeah,

697
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: so um yeah, So they're using bees wax for a

698
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: number of things, not just magical. They're using it as

699
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: an adhesive, they're using it as an embalming agent, a

700
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: light source in the form of candles, and artistic medium. Um.

701
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: But but magic is where it really shines. So it's

702
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: it's malleable, it doesn't break down in water, it doesn't

703
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: discolor unless you put it out in the sun. And

704
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: that actually makes perfect and it makes it work perfectly

705
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: within their magical thinking, right because the rays of ray

706
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: will actually change the color of the sacred sculpture. Uh.

707
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: And it also doesn't lose its shape after being molded

708
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: into its does are forms a wax figures uh that

709
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: last for centuries when they are actually stored away. One

710
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: of the problems here is that since so many of

711
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: these wax figures from from the Egyptians. They were made

712
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: to burn, so a lot of them were burned. So

713
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: you know, you you find some in tombs here and there,

714
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: but but you know, but but certainly the vast majority

715
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: of of the the amulets and statuettes that were created

716
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: were consumed by fire. It's it's the same reason that

717
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: a future generations of archaeologists aren't going to find all

718
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: that many intact pinatas to study from our culture exactly.

719
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: So there are a few different different accounts that that

720
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: that Kritsky rolls through that that that help help us

721
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: understand the use of these wax uh magical icons. So

722
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: the Salt Papyrus, that's the one that that original quote

723
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: was from about the Tears of Ray. It describes how

724
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: wax quote could be used to ensure the destroy aduction

725
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: of Seth, the god of confusion, disorder and violence and

726
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: the murderer of Osiris unquote. So simply you'd make a

727
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: bees wax likeness of your enemy and you burn them

728
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: to quote kill the name of Seth. That is too cool. Yeah,

729
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: I mean it's like I want to do that right now. Yeah,

730
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: that this principle is just too good. And and it

731
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: doesn't just work for destruction. It can work multiple ways.

732
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: You might say the wax magic go. It's a two

733
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: way street. Because there's one great story in the Tears

734
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: of Ray also that that recounts the Twelfth Dynasty myth

735
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: of a priest named web b Owner, not Webinar but

736
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: web Owner. Yeah, I ket I kept reading it my

737
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: head his webinar to who and like, like webinars, this

738
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: guy has some nefarious intentions. He makes a wax crocodile

739
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: and then he throws it into a pond where his

740
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: wife's lover is having a nice bath. And then the

741
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: wax cry goodile comes to life, eats the person, and

742
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: then vanishes. And then the priest comes back and can

743
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: summon the crocodile from the pond and turn it back

744
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: into wax. Yeah, And he does so in the presence

745
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: of the Pharaoh. And then the Pharaoh observes this and

746
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: says uh. And after after observing this magic, says, oh, well,

747
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: you're right, there's the lover right there. Um. Oh wait, yeah,

748
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: so he turned sentenced him to death. Sorry we should

749
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: have said. He turns it back into wax, and that

750
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: what it It vomits up the lover. Yeah, and and

751
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: then the pharaoh says, well, there's the lover. Your story

752
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: checks out. I sentenced him to death. And so then, uh,

753
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: the priest here turns the wax crocodile back into a

754
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: real crocodile. It eats the lover and this time vanishes

755
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: for good into the water. So that that is a

756
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: great myth. That is awesome. Yeah, I love it. I mean,

757
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 1: you have you have statues becoming real creatures and then

758
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: turning back into statues, and it's uh, it's it's a

759
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: fun one. In addition to these stories, though again, we

760
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: do find wax amulets, including as offering tables, winged sun discs,

761
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 1: uh tiets which are isis symbols, and collars. Also animals,

762
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: such as one of a hippo, which it said can

763
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: can be destroyed in order to slaughter an actual hippo.

764
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: What you can burn the wax hippo to kill the

765
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 1: real hip. Yeah, some more of this, the symbolic magic

766
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: of burning the uh the likeness in order to harm

767
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: or destroy the actual thing. You wonder how ideas like

768
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: that persisted, if they if they have a guarantee. I

769
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: feel like some some ambiguity had to be built into it,

770
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: because otherwise people would kind of observe that they were

771
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: burning wax hippos and not killing their hippo every time. Yeah,

772
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm thinking it had to you would probably something you

773
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: would do in addition to taking direct physical action against

774
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: the hippo. Oh, I can see that. Yeah, like it

775
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: increases your chances of defeating the hippo with the spear. Yeah,

776
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: there's because there's also a thirteenth dynasty myth that alleges

777
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: that the pharaoh neck and Ebo used rituals and tailing

778
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: little wax ships to secure victories against the Persians. And

779
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of additional data there, but I

780
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: can either imagine it a as a as a ritual

781
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: that's carried out in addition to military action as a

782
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: way to sort of bless your military action, or I

783
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: couldn't In the back of my mind, I couldn't help

784
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: but think, well, maybe this guy just had like wax

785
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: models of his units and it was like war gaming

786
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: it out on the table before him, and perhaps maybe

787
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: an onlooker thought, hey, he's practicing magic here. Clearly he's

788
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: using little likenesses of the ships in order to magically

789
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: secure victory. Well, there there is a lot of ambiguity,

790
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: as we've been saying, between functional uses and magical uses,

791
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: and this definitely comes through as as we mentioned earlier

792
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: in medicine, because like we said, they do use honey

793
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,959
Speaker 1: for a lot of medical practices, honey and bees wax both. Yeah,

794
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: apparently they're they're over five hundred documented uh prescriptions that

795
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: use honey and um. A lot of times it's just

796
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: about making the thing that you're eating more palatable. You know,

797
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: it's a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down.

798
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: That's not to be discounted. I mean, that is legitimate

799
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: medical technology if it eases the if it eases the

800
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: application of a medicine, and in other times it is

801
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, an active ingredient in the medication. Yeah, there

802
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: is one thing I had to relate from the book

803
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: that talks about how the The Ever's Papyrus, you know,

804
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: it's famous papyrus from ancient Egypt describes several ways of

805
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: treating constipation, which it calls quote to open the belly,

806
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: which I don't know when I pictured that, I see,

807
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: uh what it is described in Jurassic Park that the

808
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: velociraptor does with its claw, you know, split spills your

809
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: intestines out everywhere. But no, this this is the cure constipation.

810
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: So one of the cures it offers for constipation is this.

811
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: You get some milk, you get some honey, and you

812
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: get watched sycamore figs. Then you boil that mix you're down,

813
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: and then you run it through a strainer and then

814
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: you drink this for four days. And apparently it worked

815
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: pretty well at curing constipation. But it worked a little

816
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: too well because some patients had their constipation so decisively

817
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: cured that they ended up with a pro lapsed anus. Uh.

818
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 1: And so what do you do to help this poor

819
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: patient that now has a pro lapsed anus. Well, you

820
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: mix up a bomb of salt, oil and honey and

821
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: then you apply directly to the anus for another four days.

822
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: So again the use of honey. The honey makes the

823
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: anus go out. The honey makes the anus come back in,

824
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: or maybe it doesn't make it come back in, but

825
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: maybe just eases some of the discomfort you and it

826
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: it's certainly it's we Even modern studies have documented the

827
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: use of of honey as a way to to treat

828
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: cuts and burns to alleviate the symptoms in the pain

829
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: they're in. Yeah, it has legitimate medical potential. Yeah, as um,

830
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: as Critsky points out in his book, it has osmotic potential.

831
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's this this viscous um substance.

832
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of liquid in there, so it

833
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: can actually suck the fluid out of bacteria and in

834
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: doing so less than bacterial infections. I mean, honey has

835
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: natural antimicrobial properties. Yeah. Um. I think part of this

836
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: is just due to its pH right as low pH,

837
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: meaning it's acidic, but it also has other chemical properties

838
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: that's right. Um. Anti microbial activity in most honeyes is

839
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: due to the enzomatic production of hydrogen peroxi. Okay, so

840
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: the fizzy stuff. And I mean additionally to you're you're

841
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: putting honey on a wound, it it can it can maintain,

842
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: it maintains a moist wound condition. That high viscosity helps

843
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: to provide a protective barrier to prevent infection. If your

844
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: wound is caked in honey. Uh, nothing's necessarily going to

845
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: get through that that honey layer on top. As delicious

846
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: as it may say, you and uh, you know in

847
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: many reports, Um, there are many reports out there of

848
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: of of honey being used very effectively as addressing for wounds, burns,

849
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: skin ulcers, and inflammations. Uh. With the the antibacterial properties

850
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: of honey speeding up the growth of new tissue to

851
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: heal the wound. Studies have actually found that that honey

852
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: can reduce healing times in patients suffering mild to moderate

853
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: burn wounds. That's cool, yeah, But of course, getting back

854
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: to the ancient world, the Ebers Papyrus also has some

855
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: other recommendations. Yes, it does prescribe honey for treating urinary

856
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: problems if you p too much or if it hurts

857
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: when you do. Mixtures containing honey were recommended. I don't

858
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: know to what extent that actually would have been effective,

859
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: or if it was, if the honey was what was

860
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: responsible for it. But the honey also was used in

861
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: a mixture of some genuinely gross sounding prophylactic devices for contraception.

862
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: Other ingredients were things like crocodile feces and sour milk,

863
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: and essentially it's a female condom aid. Out of this

864
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: the grossest combination of substances you can find, but included honey.

865
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: Um and uh, and I know Chrisky points out that

866
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: it's possible some studies have suggested that the sour milk

867
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: could have actually had spermicidal properties to it, so this

868
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: may have been partially effective. But this is not a

869
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: recommendation that you try any of these mixtures at home. Yeah,

870
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: don't do not do not try this at home. Um.

871
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: You know, of course, in talking about all of this too,

872
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,479
Speaker 1: the placebo effect has to be huge too, because we've

873
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: discussed how that this sort of Uh. I think you've

874
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: brought it up that the something happened scenario, right, you

875
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: felt something right, uh? In in this case, it could

876
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: just be that's the sweet sensation of of tasting honey. Yeah.

877
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: I've actually mentioned before this is something that comes up

878
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: a lot. And on another podcast I listened to sometimes

879
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: called Sawbones, Yeah, where they talk about weird applications of

880
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: medicine throughout history. In fact, my wife Rachel told me

881
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: that they have an episode on honey. I haven't had

882
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: a chance to listen to it, but which should We

883
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: should check that out indeed, Um, yeah, I would love

884
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 1: to hear because I I know of of a few

885
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: other uses of honey. Uh. In in medicine that are

886
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: kind of strange. But I would love to hear a

887
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: complete overall examination of different cultures in their use of honey. Yeah,

888
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: and and those guys are always pretty funny, so that

889
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 1: should be a good one, alright. So we have talked

890
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: about the healing power of honey, the magical use of honey,

891
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: the bee keeping techniques that the ancient Egyptians seemed to

892
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: utilize to get the honey and the wax from the bees,

893
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 1: and before that we talked about the way the bees

894
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: produce honey to begin with, and why they evolved into

895
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: this curious state. I really am fascinated by the emergence

896
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: of apriculture as as just one incarnation of agriculture and

897
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: the domestication of animals as a technology in human history,

898
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: because I think this is often overlooked when thinking about

899
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: what technology is. I think of technology these days and

900
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: I just think of electronics, and I always have to

901
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: remember to broaden my mind, and and if I try

902
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: to broaden my mind, I go from electronics to other

903
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: mechanical inanimate objects that we use as tools to accomplish

904
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: goals in smart ways. But it really shouldn't even just

905
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 1: be inanimate objects, because really the control of other living

906
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: organisms to accomplish goals should be thought of as a technology.

907
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: And I think this is one of the most complex

908
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: and fascinating ones that we have, that we've created a

909
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: relationship with a symbiotic relationship in nature that already exists

910
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: between flowers and bees and made it work to our advantage.

911
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: There's something very beautiful and very weird about that. If

912
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: you can just step back for a moment and look

913
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: at this as an alien, would uh that we keep

914
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: insects in containers that fertilize the plants that grow all

915
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: over the earth and make sweet food and medicine for us. Yeah,

916
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: it's crazy and it's uh and indeed it is a

917
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: true technology, and it's one that, like like the Pyramids,

918
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: has stood the test of times. As Kritsky points out,

919
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: you can you can find traditional Egyptian beekeepers to this

920
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: day that are using some of the same techniques that

921
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: that that would have been used in ancient times. Yeah,

922
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: and I think this is just one more example of

923
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: something that I think is sort of a recent theme

924
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: on this show. Something we like to talk about that

925
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: um that that ancient cultures or cultures that are pre

926
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: modern technology, before electronics, before uh, you know, steam powered

927
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 1: industry or anything like that. We're not stupid. I think

928
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: it's easy for people to think, oh, they didn't have

929
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: any of the technology we have, they must have been dumb.

930
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: They weren't at all. They were amazingly clever. I think,

931
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: in many ways, probably more clever than us because they

932
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 1: didn't have as much easy uh they did. They didn't

933
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: have an easy foothold like we did to make new advances.

934
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: So they were working with what they had and and

935
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: when you see the innovations they came up with, it's astounding. Indeed.

936
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: So hey, let's go ahead and get mr Kritsky on

937
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: the phone here and we will ask him just a

938
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: few follow up questions about his book, The Tears of Ray.

939
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: All right, Professor Chritsky, thank you for joining us here

940
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 1: on the podcast to discuss your excellent book, The Tears

941
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: of Ray be Keeping an Ancient Egypt. Yeah. I think

942
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: Robert and I both really enjoyed this book, so thank

943
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: you for writing it. In addition to thank you for

944
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: joining us, well, thank you very much. It's a it's

945
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: great to be here. So just to kick things off

946
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 1: of how did you first become interested in ancient Egyptian

947
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: bee keeping. Oh, I've been a frustrated historian for many,

948
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: many years. And uh, my my interest in egyptology and

949
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 1: and insects salt sort of happened about the same time

950
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: in my early teen years living in Miami, Florida, and uh,

951
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: I remember walking home uh and seeing a hy i'ld

952
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: nest of honeycomb that had fallen on the ground, and

953
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: I collected out all the uh the bees and put

954
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: them into I was a nerd. I put them in

955
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: test tubes and took him up into my room and

956
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: watched them develop, and ended taking to the school and

957
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: they had him on display for several days. And that

958
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: got my interest in honey bees. My interest in egypology

959
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: happened a few weeks later. I was going to a

960
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: parochial institution that was a very creationist in his orientation,

961
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: and they started talking about Noah's flood and Usher's chronology

962
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: and said that, uh, the flood occurred in b C.

963
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: And that seemed kind of interesting to me because I've

964
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: seen dates that pertained to each colleges seemed older. So

965
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: I looked went and started reading books on on ancient

966
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: East but it found that the Pyramids brot five years

967
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: before the flood and that it was a real, uh,

968
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: real enlightening experience. Like, am I the only one that's

969
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 1: seen this? You know, must have built them very sturdy?

970
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that you know, the flood that created that,

971
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: that that carved out the Grand Canyon didn't destroy the Pyramids.

972
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,919
Speaker 1: So anyway, that that that really got me going. And

973
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: but I also got fascinated with Egyptology at that time,

974
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: and even even while I was working at my PhD

975
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: in entomology. I remember that was when the King Tut

976
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: exhibit what I was touring for the first time in

977
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: the late seventies and going to the Egyptology section at

978
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: the University of Illinois Library and just sitting on the

979
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: floor and pulling off every volume one after the other

980
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: looking for any kind of insect association and insect reference.

981
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: And that's how it started, uh, wanting to sort of

982
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: annoy my high school teachers and then getting caught up

983
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: in the King Tut craze. That was when Steve Martin

984
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: did that wonderful song on Saturday Night Live, so it

985
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: was a way to get caught up in that as well.

986
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: So Dr Krisky, What would you say about how the

987
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian treatment of bee keeping the apriculture technology. Uh,

988
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: what does that reveal about the ancient Egyptian culture? What

989
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: what does their technology say about who these people were

990
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: and what they believe? Well, the the aspect of course,

991
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: the title of the book is the Tears of Ray,

992
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: and there is a papyrus from three uh b c.

993
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: Which gives the whole story about what the Egyptians thought,

994
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: uh bees are about. And that that the the statement

995
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: that's in this papyrus UH that wrote UH that the

996
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: god Ray wept and the tears from his eyes fell

997
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: on the ground and turned into a bee. And the

998
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: bee made his honeycomb and busied himself with the flowers

999
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 1: of every plant. And so wax was made and also

1000
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: honey out of the tears of Ray. And so for

1001
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: the Egyptians, honey was a gift of the Sun God,

1002
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: and that made it very very important to them. Not

1003
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: only was an important commodity as those sweetener, it was

1004
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: used in medicine, it was used in uh and UH

1005
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: the wax was very important and as in medicine as

1006
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: well along with honey, but also as a as a

1007
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: magical substance. All this came from these these in x

1008
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: that were essentially the manifestation of the gods tears, and

1009
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: so that that made honey quite valuable from a theological perspective,

1010
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: but also from a biological perspective as well. And there

1011
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: even in their their temples, the Sun Temple, for example,

1012
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: from the fifth dynoce of No Australiani, there's this wonderful

1013
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: relief that shows beekeeping. And so here's something that I

1014
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: don't I've I've been to a lot of cathedrals and

1015
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 1: temples and churches around the world, and I've not seen

1016
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: displays about beekeeping in there. So that puts in a

1017
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: whole different perspective. Now, in uh, in your research, am

1018
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: I correct in reading that you at one point became

1019
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: locked inside of a tomb? Yes, that happened though. That

1020
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: was I was a Fulbright scholar to Egypt in the

1021
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: early eighties, and uh was I was teaching in Many

1022
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: at many A University, about a hundred fifty miles south

1023
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: of Cairo, and as part of my research, I was

1024
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: I was just visiting archaeological sites to find any kind

1025
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: of a sect carving and references to insects and what

1026
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: have you visited ninety four archaeological sites, and Uh, I

1027
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: was getting so well known in the area that I

1028
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: was even asked by members of the Forebay Commission if

1029
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: I would meet guests and take them on tours. And

1030
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: one instance was the American ambassador to Egypt he Uh.

1031
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: He and his wife and their son came down to

1032
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: Menua for a tour of the antiquities, and of course

1033
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: his excellency was received a government to escort everywhere he

1034
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: was going, and and the ambassador's son and I went

1035
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: off on our own. And while we were down in

1036
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: an underground acropolis, UH, sandstorm blew up and uh they

1037
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: grabbed the ambassador and his wife and escorted them to

1038
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: the rest house, and UH we weren't there. And I

1039
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: was told later that he looked around and said, where's

1040
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: my son, and this UH military official responded, he is safe,

1041
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: your excellency. He has locked in the tomb. And so,

1042
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: of course that we had two guards. We were in

1043
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: any real danger. And it wasn't like it was like

1044
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: air tight, We're gonna suffocate, because you actually see through

1045
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: cracks from the door. So his son and I started

1046
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: exploring on our own while we were waiting. We were

1047
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,919
Speaker 1: there about forty five minutes and went down one UH

1048
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: shaft and found a small UH coffin that would have

1049
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: held up mummified ibis bird. We found a crocodile skull.

1050
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: There was there was mummy linen everywhere because this was

1051
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: such a it was an important underground animal necropolis. So

1052
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: it was quite an exciting time. It's one of those

1053
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: few things that Uh, I never expected to do, and

1054
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: it's something that doesn't happen to a lot of people.

1055
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: You know, the mummified animals you mentioned that relates back

1056
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: to something I knew you mentioned in the book, but

1057
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: I didn't have a time to look up on the

1058
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: side as you mentioned the crocodile Apolis, which sounded fascinating

1059
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: to me. What's the deal with that crocodile Opolis? Uh.

1060
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: That was a city that was prominent during the toll

1061
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: Make period later in an ancient uh Egypt. UH and

1062
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: UH they were the crocodile god was the god so back,

1063
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: and so crocodile Opolis was associated with that deity. And

1064
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: the reference in the book talked about feeding crocodiles a

1065
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: food that was also laced with with honey. Oh. Yeah. So,

1066
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,479
Speaker 1: one of the things that you point out in the book,

1067
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: and I noticed even before you pointed it out, in

1068
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: several of the different artworks and carvings, is the variable

1069
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: number of legs in the depictions of bees. Like sometimes

1070
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: you would see with apparently three legs, which sort of

1071
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: makes sense because it seems like maybe if you're looking

1072
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: from one side, each leg could represent a pair. But

1073
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: then other times you'd see what looked to me like

1074
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: four legs or maybe five legs, depending on how you interpreted,

1075
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: one little uh strand coming out the back of the bee.

1076
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: And this, this rang a bell in my mind. And

1077
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: I remember that there is a passage in the Book

1078
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: of Leviticus and Leviticus eleven that talks about winged insects

1079
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: with four legs, and I just thought that was a

1080
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of strange coincidence. Now, there are obviously a lot

1081
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: of ways you might explain a glyph of a bee

1082
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: or an illustration of a bee in the ancient world

1083
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: having a different number of legs. But do you think

1084
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: this was a widespread belief in the ancient Near East

1085
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: that there were insects with four legs or is this

1086
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: just conservation of detail? Well, and in the case of

1087
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: the Egyptian honeybee, the most exact carvings show to be

1088
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: having uh four legs oriented forward and then the hind

1089
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: leg is actually superimposed on the abdomen, and in some

1090
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: instances that wasn't drawn in or was very lightly carved in,

1091
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 1: so it doesn't stand out because it's actually always super

1092
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: imposed on the abdomen itself. And uh some on almost

1093
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: all cases, you're gonna find evidence that they probably had

1094
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 1: all six legs, but they might not have carved the

1095
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: hind leg as detailed enough because of the abdominal structure.

1096
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: UH carving that that honeybee hieroglyph was quite variable. I

1097
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: have a chapter in the book about about how they

1098
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: would go about doing this, and it's all for me.

1099
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: It's like doing handwriting analysis if you're gonna do forensic

1100
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,479
Speaker 1: handwriting analysis for forgery or have you. And I found

1101
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: there were certain certain patterns of existent with certain certain

1102
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: bees and certain places of temples, for example. But uh,

1103
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: in general, unless if it's a very careful carving, it

1104
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: always has evidence of the four legs forward and then

1105
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: the hind legs superposed on it, but you wouldn't see

1106
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: the other leg on the other side of the ave

1107
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: been that case. But so I think you're looking at

1108
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: mostly uh not not necessarily being careful for the eye

1109
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: of detail. But in some cases these uh uh, these

1110
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: details might have slowly uh given away during time through time. Interesting,

1111
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: So a question this this is something that that maybe

1112
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: didn't come up as much in the book, but it

1113
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: kind of relates to some previous episodes that we've we've

1114
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: done to the podcast the deal with with with the

1115
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: egyptology and animals. Did the ancient Egyptians ever use bees

1116
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: as a as a weapon in any sense? I did

1117
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: didn't run across any example of honey bees being used

1118
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: as a weapon like you would see for example some

1119
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: of the uh medieval uh eliminated Mantage scripts and some

1120
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: of the references to talk about skep straw bee hives

1121
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: being thrown over castle walls for example, to break up

1122
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: a siege and things like that. So I did not

1123
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: find any evidence of of bees being used as a

1124
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: weapon per se. Uh. The difference was in in the

1125
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: type of hive Exyptians were using. They were clay tubes.

1126
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: They would not stand to a lot of uh trauma

1127
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: if you will, uh. They were had fewer bees in

1128
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: each one than then we would have an our typical

1129
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 1: modern box. I probably five seven thousand bees as opposed

1130
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: to you know, thirty fifty thousand bees in a in

1131
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: a tall, multi store, multi boxed lank straw hive. Cool. Uh.

1132
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: And so I've got a couple of other ideas. I

1133
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: want to see what you think about about the relationship

1134
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: between humans and bees and uh and be evolutions. So

1135
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: one of the first things I started thinking about in

1136
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: this bok is that bee keeping seems interesting to me

1137
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: and that it might be unique. And I wonder if

1138
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: you can think of any other examples in that it

1139
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: seems like a truly three way symbiotic relationship between the

1140
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: plants that are pollinated, the bees that produced the honey,

1141
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: and then the human beekeepers. And I was trying to

1142
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: think of another relationship that's equally symbiotic three ways, and

1143
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite but I wondered if you had any

1144
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: insight on that. Uh. Well, with regard to the bees, uh,

1145
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: I think humans are probably interacting with honey bees long

1146
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: before we became Homo sapiens. We know now that, for example,

1147
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: chimpanzees will will take sticks and fashion them in different thicknesses,

1148
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: for example, to tear into a a wild honey bee

1149
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: nest and I'll even carry these these sticks around with

1150
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: them so they uh, you know, if if the chimpanzees

1151
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: are doing that, it's quite likely that the hominans, our

1152
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: ancestors are probably doing this as well, uh, going back

1153
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: several million years. So this association with bees is very

1154
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: ancient in uh, in our species and probably in definitely

1155
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: predates some modern modern humans. So in that case that

1156
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: since honey bees, they're not truly be keeping their robbing,

1157
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: but there is the relationship that they're actually gonna be

1158
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: taking advantage of of the the golden sweet windfall of

1159
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: of a bee's nest um, and that was probably how

1160
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: our our bee keeping originated. There are symbiotic relationhips that

1161
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 1: that that might involve with the three organisms, but don't

1162
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: necessarily involve humans. I'm trying to think. So I'm thinking

1163
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:40,959
Speaker 1: of things like the fig wasps of the and things

1164
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: like that that you you'd see a very specialized relationship

1165
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: between the figs humans and and uh the wasps. And

1166
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: in those cases, now, in the case of Egypt today,

1167
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: they didn't have the fig wasps, so they were actually

1168
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: scarifying the fruit to make it ripen. But and and

1169
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: of course that would be a three way example as well. Excellent. Yeah,

1170
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about the fig wats. But that's

1171
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: that's a that's a tremendous example. That is a great question.

1172
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: I like, that's that's that that's coming from the side

1173
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: that time we thought about for my mind is really

1174
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: clicking on that one. Well, well, that leads into the

1175
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: next question I wanted to ask, which is about the

1176
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: evolutionary relationship we see with other domesticated animals that that

1177
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: humans use for their agricultural agriculture for companionships. So we've

1178
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: got dogs, we've got cattle, we've got all kinds of

1179
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: you know, draft animals, farm animals that in many ways

1180
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: have very much diverged evolutionarily from their wild ancestors. And

1181
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: I wonder if we see anything like that with domesticated bees,

1182
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: or if we ever will in the future. Um, is

1183
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: it because we've had a domestication relationship with bees for

1184
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: less time If we don't see that, I think there's

1185
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: no question that we've had an impact on on honeybee evolution.

1186
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: Case and point in your during the last fifteen hundred

1187
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: years when we kept bees uh in straw and wicker

1188
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: skep hives, the basket hives. It was very common uh

1189
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 1: in the early earlier centuries when you harvested the honey,

1190
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: the beekeeper and walk around, pick up the lift the

1191
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: skep and it was really heavy. That would be the

1192
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: one that they would harvest. And the how they would harvest.

1193
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: They would dig a pit in the ground filled with

1194
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: sulfur and brimstone, what have you, and start a fire

1195
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: and literally knock all the bees into the fire. Now

1196
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: they're what they're doing is taking their best producing bees

1197
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: and killing them. M Um Darwin has something to say

1198
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: about that. And and what we're seeing is this, we

1199
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: have four centuries slowly been killing large numbers of of

1200
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: a very good producing colonies. And then we tried to

1201
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: some of the Eventually we got the point where they

1202
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: could drive the bees out of these wicker basket hives.

1203
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: They would they would take the skep hive, put it

1204
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 1: in the full skep, put it upside down in a

1205
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: in a pail, and then have an empty skep next

1206
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: to it, and using pieces of board nail sort of

1207
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: hold that empty scap in place. And they banged the

1208
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: daylights out of the side of that pail, and the

1209
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: bees would walk out of the full step up into

1210
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: the empty, empty skep and the second they could drive

1211
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: the bees from one hive to the next. That stopped that.

1212
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: We started seeing that in good numbers in the late

1213
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,919
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and quite common during the UH the nineteenth century.

1214
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: But we for many many years had been you know,

1215
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 1: going out and and selectively killing good producing bees. And

1216
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 1: UH a colleague of mine, UH Steve Shepherd up at

1217
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 1: the Washington State University. He has been looking at the

1218
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: diversity of honey bees and it's found that all the

1219
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 1: bees in the United States are all of our queens

1220
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: are related to a small number of of queens. It's

1221
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: fewer than a thousand. So we've we have dramatically produced

1222
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 1: the genetic diversity of bees over over the years as beekeepers.

1223
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: That may be contributing to some of the problems that

1224
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: we we are having. And there's a concerted effort now

1225
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: Steve is doing this and others to go out all

1226
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: over the world and try to h improve the genetic

1227
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: diversity by getting UM collecting drones and getting semen UH

1228
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: samples to bring back for for crosses. Well, that's really fascinating.

1229
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,600
Speaker 1: So that makes me wonder do we already have or

1230
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: do you ever think we will have uh, domesticated bees

1231
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: that are as different from the wild original hobee as

1232
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,600
Speaker 1: say a chihuahua is from the gray wolf. Well, we

1233
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: have several, we have several strains are are varieties. Now

1234
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: there's the and they're all APIs malifer about their their subspecies.

1235
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 1: They all from what we can tell is they all

1236
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: involved on their own and you know, for example, the

1237
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 1: Italian strain came from the the Alperia North and Italian

1238
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,879
Speaker 1: what have you? Uh, we are there are has been attempts.

1239
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: Brother Adam was a beekeeper who was trying to uh

1240
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: selectively breed bees that would mature a little faster to

1241
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: help produce it's it's parasite load, for example. So there

1242
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 1: are efforts to do things like that. Uh, I've not

1243
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: seen any real overall success that would say that it's

1244
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: that's uh that it's come to fruition yet, but that

1245
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: it is quite conceivable that we could modify bees through

1246
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 1: selective breeding to be something different. M interesting. Well, Robert,

1247
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: did you have something else? No, I believe that that's

1248
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: that's a great place to to leave off. I just

1249
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: wanna I want to thank thank you again Professor Chritski

1250
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: for taking the time to chat with us and encourage

1251
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: all of our listeners. If you're if you're whether you're

1252
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: interested in history or or insects, um if if it's

1253
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: the the ancient Egyptian angle or the the beekeeping angle

1254
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: that that brings you in like this is just a

1255
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: tremendous and accessible read on both topics. My if if

1256
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 1: I can uh the shameless plug, I will say my

1257
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: my previous book with Oxford was The Quest for the

1258
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: Perfect Hive, which is the history of the modern beehive.

1259
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: Excellent and how we how we got from these two

1260
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: highs from the Egyptians up to the through basket hives

1261
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: into the those white boxes that we see uh out

1262
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: in fields. Now, can you tell us what will the

1263
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: hives of the future look like? Oh? Well, that's one

1264
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: of the themes behind my the book The Quest of

1265
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: the Perfect Hive. Is one of the things that's happened

1266
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: is we've stopped, we've stopped inventing. It's beginning to come

1267
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: back a little bit. But um, when the U during

1268
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century into the twentieth century, beekeepers were

1269
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: spending a lot of money, but to buy equipment that

1270
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: was interchangeable, and they were buying extractors and uh uh

1271
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: it was rather it's rather expensive to actually retool an

1272
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 1: entire b operation, honeybee operation. And so uh the if

1273
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: you went and found a beekeeping supply catalog from the

1274
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, it would look just like our catalogs today

1275
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: in some case, except they wouldn't have a styro from hives.

1276
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: So here we have these we have pre depression Arab

1277
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: bees uh uh living in hives that were invented back

1278
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: the night twenties, and we we've got we have their

1279
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: honey bee geno. And so you know, my question always

1280
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: this have we found the perfect hive? And since the

1281
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 1: books come out, we're now seeing a lot of people

1282
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: invest uh exploring new hives. Uh. There's a couple that

1283
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: are really quite intriguing. The Omelet Hive out of England,

1284
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: which is a wonderful hive for it's it's expensive, but

1285
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful hive for the backyard beekeeper. We of

1286
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: course they might have recently heard about the flow hive

1287
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 1: that's this hive that uh you economically extract the honey

1288
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: from the hive through hoses, and that's that's something that's

1289
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: that I believe there's a kick Starter campaign to help

1290
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: fund UH fund that. Uh. There there's a lot of

1291
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: interest in trying to improve UH bee keeping operations to

1292
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: encourage more people to keep bees even if they don't

1293
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: want to collect the honey, but just keep the pollinators around.

1294
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 1: Man the bee hive with the hoses. That sounds like

1295
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: an hr Geeger kind of contract. You should you should

1296
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: take a look at it on They are actually able

1297
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: to split the honey comb and then they they the

1298
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: honey then flows out through through UH hoses in two

1299
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 1: containers so they don't have to take the high the

1300
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: frames out for extracting. Wow. Well that's fascinating. Well, uh,

1301
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: I guess we should wrap it up unless there's anything

1302
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 1: else you feel like you would like to say. But

1303
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 1: but I really appreciate you talking to us. I thoroughly

1304
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Thank you for having me. All right, So

1305
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 1: there you have it. That book again is The Tears

1306
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 1: of Ray be Keeping an Ancient Egypt by Gene Kritzky,

1307
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: and that is ray spelled r E. You can find

1308
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: that it's available in both physical and digital copies right now,

1309
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: and will include a link to it on the landing

1310
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: page for this uh WET for this episode at stuff

1311
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. And if you want

1312
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us about this episode or

1313
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: any recent episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you

1314
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: can always email us at blow the Mind at how

1315
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for moral this and thousands of

1316
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com Like