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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. We have some breaking

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Speaker 1: news for you here.

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Speaker 2: The Supreme Court is upholding full access to mif a

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Speaker 2: pristone abortion pill. So this ruling came as the FDA

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Speaker 2: had imposed restrictions on the pill that the agency found

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Speaker 2: were unnecessary, and a court considered a Biden administration appeal

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Speaker 2: of that ruling. And the requirements were things like making

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Speaker 2: in person visits to their doctor in order to obtain

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Speaker 2: this pill. And it looks like the FDA won this case,

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court upholding full access to mif a pristone abortion pill.

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Speaker 2: The issue really was about did the FDA overdo it?

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Speaker 2: Did they expand when they shouldn't have. We are going

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Speaker 2: to be talking about that much more. June Grasso is

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Speaker 2: in studio joining us. No, you're ready, You're good, You're good, great, okay, great, Hi,

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining you ran here. We appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. Okay, So walk us through the importance.

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Speaker 3: Well, obviously, the importance is that MEPhI pristone is the

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Speaker 3: abortion drug that is most used excuse me, in this country,

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Speaker 3: So putting restrictions on it would mean problems for a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of women in this country.

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Speaker 3: In this case, what the Supreme Court did, and this

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Speaker 3: is not a surprise decision actually, because after the oral

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Speaker 3: arguments in the case, it was pretty much telegraphed by

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Speaker 3: the justices that they were going to go off. They're

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Speaker 3: not talking about MIFHA pristone, they're not talking about abortion.

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Speaker 3: What they're talking about is standing, which is a procedural thing, really,

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Speaker 3: and it's a way sometimes for them to get out

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Speaker 3: of cases, out of deciding the merits of the case

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Speaker 3: by looking at the procedural elements.

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Speaker 1: So here they said that the doctors who.

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Speaker 3: Challenged it and the groups who challenged it didn't have

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Speaker 3: standing because they weren't hurt in any way. One way

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Speaker 3: they put it is like, you know, have a dog

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Speaker 3: in the fight. So the doctors, they were trying to

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Speaker 3: show that they had some injury. What was their injury

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Speaker 3: that it was very speculative, you know, if someone came

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Speaker 3: into an emergency room and needed an abortion, and it

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Speaker 3: just was ridiculous. So at that point the justices all

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Speaker 3: seemed to agree that they didn't have standing. So it's

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Speaker 3: an off ramp. They haven't decided anything really about abortion.

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Speaker 4: Okay, but this, for all intents, this settles The issue

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Speaker 4: as it relates to this particular drug, is that the

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Speaker 4: case is that where we are right now. I guess.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure because I think we'll see challenges to

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Speaker 3: all kinds of abortion, you know, abortion pills and everything else,

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Speaker 3: you know, because the lobby is so strong against it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not sure this ends it. This ends this

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Speaker 3: particular challenge, but I don't know that it ends any

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Speaker 3: challenge to mif for pristone. You know, they still have

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Speaker 3: the base. They still have the base challenge, which is

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Speaker 3: that the FDA didn't have the authority to put the

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Speaker 3: for pristone on the market the way that it had

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Speaker 3: through the you know, to get it through the mail

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Speaker 3: and things. So I mean, I'm not sure they may

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Speaker 3: be able to find a different group that has standing

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Speaker 3: and you know, reassert the challenge, but you know, I'm trying.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what group they would find.

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Speaker 2: So if I just sort of break this down in

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Speaker 2: Layman's terms, So the Biden administration made this drug more

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Speaker 2: widely available, then the doctor said.

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Speaker 1: We don't want this, we want more restrictions. Is that

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Speaker 1: what this is one doctor through like one doctor's group.

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Speaker 3: A doctor's group that is anti abortion, a conservative Christian

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Speaker 3: doctor's group said challenged it, and I mean the way

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Speaker 3: these things work is, you know, there are conservative organizations

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Speaker 3: and conservative legal groups that go out and look for

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Speaker 3: plaintiffs to find when they want to sue on something.

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Speaker 3: So this group in particular sued in this case. Some

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Speaker 3: states tried to intervene and the Supreme Court didn't allow that.

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Speaker 3: So you know, states may be able to come forward

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Speaker 3: and say this, this hurts are What they say is

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Speaker 3: that this hurts our bottom line because we don't get

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Speaker 3: to have, you know, different healthcare choices.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are all different ways.

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Speaker 2: Because in the lower court ordered the FDA to impose

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Speaker 2: restrictions on the pill that the agency was like, look,

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Speaker 2: this is not necessary and these are things like you

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Speaker 2: have to make an in person visit to your doctor

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Speaker 2: before you.

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Speaker 1: Get the pill.

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Speaker 2: That is what is no longer there, right Like, that

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Speaker 2: is what the Supreme Court ruled and said, nope, you

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Speaker 2: can have this free access.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I haven't read the case.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if they sent this back to the

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Speaker 3: Fifth Circuit or not, so I don't have the case

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Speaker 3: in front of me. I'm sort of working in the

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Speaker 3: dark here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's darkness better than us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good. But I don't know if they send it

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Speaker 3: back to the Fifth Circuit for more findings, because this

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Speaker 3: came up from a Texas judge and the Texas judge

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Speaker 3: had even more restrictions on it, and it went to

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Speaker 3: the Fifth Circuit, they dial back some of the restrictions,

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Speaker 3: and then it went to the Supreme Court. So when

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Speaker 3: I get my hands on the opinion, I may be

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Speaker 3: able to tell you more.

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Speaker 1: Now, does this affect individuals? How does this affect individual states?

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Speaker 2: And women in those states that no longer have access

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Speaker 2: to MEPhI princetone.

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Speaker 3: So you know it should individual states can do different things. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so individual states are looking for a lot of different

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Speaker 3: ways to penalize women who leave the state for abortions. So,

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Speaker 3: but with MYFI pristone, because it comes through the mail,

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Speaker 3: it's much easier.

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Speaker 1: For women to get.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, some organizations have been stockpiling MIFA pristone

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Speaker 3: just in case anything happened with the Supreme Court. So

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Speaker 3: what they'll be able to do, I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: what this says is for right now, there's full access

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Speaker 3: to MIFA pristone. I mean, the states have been ingenious

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Speaker 3: in coming up with ways to try to stop abortion.

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Speaker 3: I mean you've seen the different ways that they've tried,

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Speaker 3: not only you know, to the point where women can't

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Speaker 3: even get emergency medical care if they need an abortion.

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Speaker 3: And that case is coming up, by the way, that

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Speaker 3: Idaho case is coming up. Whether or not if a

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Speaker 3: woman is not in fear of her life is not

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Speaker 3: on the line, but perhaps some other things are on

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Speaker 3: the line, perhaps her organs are in jeopardy or something

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Speaker 3: like that, whether they have to give her an abortion

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Speaker 3: if that's what is necessary, And that's coming up. That's

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Speaker 3: an Idaho case that was heard late in the term.

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Speaker 3: So there are ingenious ways to try to stop abortion.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know for sure, but in.

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Speaker 4: Reality, can can women in all fifty states get this

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Speaker 4: via the mail?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I mean there's no and I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: how is there practical ways you stop that.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's an act that hasn't been there's an act

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Speaker 3: that hasn't been the Comstock Act that hasn't been used

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Speaker 3: for I don't know how long, and that some conservatives

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Speaker 3: say that maybe the next avenue that you shouldn't send

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Speaker 3: certain things through the mail, so that could be another

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Speaker 3: way to attack it. As I said, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't want this to be the end of the attacks, right,

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Speaker 3: just think that it's just been shown that there's so

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Speaker 3: many ingenious ways to I mean, this is the law

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Speaker 3: you know you have we do you have one argument

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Speaker 3: and it turns out there are ten arguments. So but

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Speaker 3: this one. You know why it was easy for the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court I'll say easy in quotes, because they found

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Speaker 3: an easy way to get out of it. They just said,

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Speaker 3: and they do this a lot, right, people will say standing,

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Speaker 3: what's standing?

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Speaker 1: Standing?

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Speaker 3: I had a professor that once said, you know, the

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Speaker 3: ingeniousness of lawyers is that you can always find a

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Speaker 3: way to turn it into a procedural argument. And that's

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Speaker 3: what they do. And in this case, it was pretty

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Speaker 3: easy because you didn't see any injury to doctors. What

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Speaker 3: injury do they have?

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned the Idaho case that's Moyle versus the

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Speaker 2: US right and that issue. It seems like, does the

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Speaker 2: federal law permit er doctors to perform abortions to preserve

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Speaker 2: a woman's health even if stays outlawed that procedure? So

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Speaker 2: this is to your point of like, can they save

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Speaker 2: the woman or can they help the woman even if

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Speaker 2: the state outlaws abortion altogether.

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Speaker 3: So Idaho has a law that allows abortions if the

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Speaker 3: woman's life is in jeopardy. The Biden administration came in

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Speaker 3: and said no, because you're taking money from the federal government, right,

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Speaker 3: we have the right to tell you that you have

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Speaker 3: to also treat women who come to an emergency room.

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Speaker 3: And it's not that their life is in jeopardy, but

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Speaker 3: something else is in jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: Their organs are in jeopardy. I mean different kinds of things.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'm not a doctor, so I thank god I'm

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Speaker 3: not a doctor, so I don't know what, but different

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Speaker 3: kinds of things. And you have to treat that woman

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Speaker 3: and give her an abortion, even if her life isn't

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Speaker 3: in jeopardy. So that's the issue, and that case.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was a little more.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you how that case is going to

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Speaker 3: come out because it wasn't as clear some of these cases.

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Speaker 3: You know, we say, oh, we don't know what they're

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Speaker 3: going to decide, but it's pretty clear what the going

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Speaker 3: to decide. I don't know about the Idaho case how

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Speaker 3: that's going to come down.

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Speaker 4: So this particular ruling here is is it feels, just

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Speaker 4: reading on some of the initial reporting, that it's kind

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Speaker 4: of a technical lawyer type thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeap procede, That's what I said.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean it sounds like, as you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 4: that they can various scripts, can come back and approach

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Speaker 4: this issue from other angles.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps, as I said, it's ingenious the number of ways.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's sort of like if you remember affirmative action,

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Speaker 3: and for many, many years affirmative action, it kept on

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Speaker 3: getting you know, the protests to it or the challenges

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Speaker 3: to it kept on getting rejected. And then there was

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Speaker 3: this man who has who has students for fair admissions,

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Speaker 3: and he kept fighting and fighting and fighting and waited

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Speaker 3: until the Supreme Court turned more conservative, and then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, the Supreme Courts you know, reversed itself

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Speaker 3: and said, no, you know, we can't have affirmative actions.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, that's what I mean.

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Speaker 3: They have very well funded groups that are fighting abortion

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Speaker 3: on every level, so I don't, you know, rule out

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Speaker 3: the fact that there'll be other challenges to it.

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Speaker 5: All.

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Speaker 1: Right, Hey, June, thank you so much. She literally booked

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Speaker 1: in here. We really appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: No, sorry, thank you, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Jin Gretso Bloomberg joining us there.

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Speaker 2: We all want to go to Madelein Meckelberg. She's a

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg legal reporter. She also joins us on this news

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Speaker 2: And remember, let's just recap here for a moment. The

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court has ruled that there will be full access

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Speaker 2: to mif A pristone abortion pill. Madeline, can you walk

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Speaker 2: us through how this case unfolded?

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Speaker 5: Hi, thanks for having me on to talk about this case. So,

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court this morning they overturned a decision from

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Speaker 5: a federal appeals court that would have prevented mail order

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Speaker 5: prescriptions for MIFA pristone. And this is the case that

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Speaker 5: started in Texas.

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Speaker 3: It was a.

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Speaker 5: Conservative group they challenged access to the abortion pill, and

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Speaker 5: we're seeking to have the original FDA approved of the

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Speaker 5: pill rolled back. As the case moved through the courts,

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Speaker 5: the Federal Appeals Court in New Orleans, that's the Fifth Circuit,

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Speaker 5: they basically said they can't go back enough in time

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Speaker 5: and undo the original FDA approval, but what they can

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Speaker 5: do is turn back some of the more recent decisions

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Speaker 5: which would have allowed the pill to be sent through

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Speaker 5: the mail and used in a wider number of abortions.

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Speaker 5: What the Supreme Court did today was say full access

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Speaker 5: has to be preserved.

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Speaker 4: So is this the final word for myth of pristone

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Speaker 4: and its availability in this country or is it still

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Speaker 4: perhaps at risk of some regulation.

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Speaker 5: So I think we're still going to see some action

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Speaker 5: on this. This case was on kind of a preliminary

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Speaker 5: basis at this point, I think we could see it

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Speaker 5: come back up again. And what the Supreme Court did

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Speaker 5: today was not rule on the merits of the FDA's

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Speaker 5: decision to approve myth of pristone. They blocked this lawsuit

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Speaker 5: on standing. So they basically said that the individuals that

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Speaker 5: brought the challenge they didn't actually have the right to

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Speaker 5: sue because they couldn't demonstrate that the FDA's actions harmed

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Speaker 5: them directly because federal law protects doctors from providing abortions

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Speaker 5: if they have moral objections. So they said these people

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Speaker 5: can't sue. But that does mean that there may be

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Speaker 5: is a pathway for others to bring a lawsuit if

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Speaker 5: they wanted to challenge the same thing.

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Speaker 2: When does the Supreme Court term end? And what are

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Speaker 2: some other big ones that our audience for Boomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 2: Radio will be interested in.

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Speaker 5: That's a great question. I know that we're waiting for

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Speaker 5: at least one other abortion decision as it relates to

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Speaker 5: emergency room access in Idaho. There are a couple of

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Speaker 5: big Trump cases on the docket, so we've got a

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks left where we're going to expect to

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Speaker 5: see some decisions, and we'll be keeping an eye.

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Speaker 4: Out, Madlin. How unexpected was this ruling given the makeup

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Speaker 4: of the court today.

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Speaker 5: I think it's definitely if you're looking just at the makeup,

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Speaker 5: this is a surprising decision given what we know about

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Speaker 5: this court that is the same one that overturned Roe v.

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Speaker 2: Wade.

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Speaker 5: But when there was a hearing on this case in March,

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Speaker 5: we definitely got a sense from justices that they were

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Speaker 5: skeptical about the standing issue that was raised in this lawsuit.

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Speaker 5: So while broadly speaking, this is kind of surprising for

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Speaker 5: this court based on this case specifically and what we

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Speaker 5: heard from justices previously, it's in line.

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Speaker 2: We were talking to June about the other abortion case

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Speaker 2: that's coming to the fore as well, Moile versus the US,

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Speaker 2: and that really centers around Idaho's abortion van considering whether

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Speaker 2: a federal law that requires hospitals to provide stabilizing emergency

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Speaker 2: care Trump's any abortion restrictions. Does this give us any

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Speaker 2: roadmap for that case.

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Speaker 5: It's hard to say. There are really different questions. I

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Speaker 5: think that what we know is that the Court is

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Speaker 5: considering any abortion question that comes before it pretty carefully.

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Speaker 5: In light of this road decision that sought to return

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Speaker 5: things to the state. These are two examples where we're

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Speaker 5: seeing them having to deal with the consequences of that

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Speaker 5: decision and them weighing in on these regulations. They're kind

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Speaker 5: of different issues, but I think that we can expect

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Speaker 5: to see maybe some nuanced perspectives from the court on this.

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Speaker 4: All right, madam, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: Madelin Meckelburgh, legal reporter for Bloomberg News. She's based in Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 4: and it's just you know, when you get a piece

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Speaker 4: of news like this coming across it maybe is not

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Speaker 4: in our typical remit. We have some experts literally around

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Speaker 4: the corner in June Grass, so literally a phone call

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Speaker 4: away in Madeleine Meckelburg to help us understand what which.

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Speaker 1: We very much appreciate.

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Speaker 4: Which we very much appreciate, makes it sound a lot smarter.