1
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,560
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

2
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

3
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,479
Speaker 1: Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

4
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

5
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

6
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:25,920
Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the broader market here. You're

7
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 2: taking a look at treasuries, still having all the sell

8
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 2: off here, yield's really pushing higher. The question is why

9
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,960
Speaker 2: is it just purely just a risk on trade and

10
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: then risk off and treasuries. Let's get more with Ira Jersey,

11
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence Chief US Interest Rate strategistic joining us IRA.

12
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 2: When you look at a move like this, is this

13
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: a purely Hey, tariffs might not be as bad. We're

14
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,200
Speaker 2: buy inequities, we're selling bonds.

15
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's as simple as that, Alex. At

16
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,919
Speaker 3: least this morning the headline certainly of the SMP Global

17
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 3: pmis also didn't hurt any either. You saw a little

18
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,160
Speaker 3: bit of a move after that with yields moving up

19
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,760
Speaker 3: a basis one or two, But generally it's the risk

20
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 3: on sentiment right now. And you know, we've been talking

21
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 3: about the entire year We're going to have this play between, Look,

22
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,319
Speaker 3: are we going into a recession anytime soon or is

23
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,080
Speaker 3: the economy going to hang on just enough that the

24
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 3: Fed Reserve is going to be reluctant to cut interest

25
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,959
Speaker 3: rates because you know, the services sector is doing okay.

26
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 3: Plus tariffs might increase inflation expectations. So the market just

27
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 3: hovering around this, you know, low four percent range for

28
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 3: the tenure yield is probably something that we're going to

29
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,720
Speaker 3: continue to see for quite a long time.

30
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 4: We're going to get some inflation data at the end

31
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 4: of this week, Ira, what do you think the how

32
00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,399
Speaker 4: do you think the Fed's looking at this core PCEE

33
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:41,559
Speaker 4: data that we'll get on Friday.

34
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 3: Well, they like the core PC data. But usually and

35
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 3: in the recent past, the forecast has been done a

36
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 3: pretty good job in determining where it's going to be,

37
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 3: at least within a tenth of a percent. So I

38
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 3: suspect that that the market. Yeah, if there's a big surprise,

39
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 3: obviously the market will move. But I think we'll move

40
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 3: on that and think about next week's non form payroll

41
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 3: report and some of the other PMI reports that we

42
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 3: get from the US from the Institute of Supply management

43
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 3: next week. Those tend to be the bigger movers, right,

44
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 3: and the jobs market still is the key, with certainly

45
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 3: CPI inflation being number two. Interestingly, when you look at

46
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 3: what the ten year yield has been most sensitive to

47
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,079
Speaker 3: in terms of changes when data points miss, it's always

48
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 3: payrolls number one. CPI has been number two, but this

49
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 3: pc inflator is all the way down at number seven

50
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 3: right now in our list of the top ten, so

51
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 3: that's fallen off quite a bit. Retail sales, on the

52
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 3: other hand, that's now number three. That had been number

53
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,680
Speaker 3: two for a long time. But those three are really

54
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 3: the data points that you want to focus in on.

55
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 3: That's certainly when you see any shifts there, that's when

56
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 3: you're going to see big moves in the treasury market.

57
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 2: And we get some auctions this week as well, really

58
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 2: in the belly of the curve. You had mentioned earlier

59
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 2: last week that the ten year had kind of found

60
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 2: its high, but we're looking for a bottom. But what

61
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 2: does that mean then for the belly.

62
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we get twos, fives, and seven So those

63
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 3: fives and sevens is distinctively the belly. I actually think

64
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 3: tomorrow's two year auction will be maybe the most well

65
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 3: bid this year of the this week's auctions, in part

66
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 3: because the break even and the risk factors that you

67
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 3: can get at a four percent two year yield means

68
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 3: that basically yields have to double over the next year

69
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 3: for people to start losing money. So you're if you're

70
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 3: an investor, whether you're benchmark to some index or you

71
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,080
Speaker 3: just want to hide somewhere, the two year I think

72
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 3: will still get pretty good demand, But those fives and

73
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 3: sevens are the question, Alex, and I think that they'll

74
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,440
Speaker 3: probably do okay. And I'm basing that on the fact

75
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 3: that last week's twenty year and the twenty year auctions

76
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 3: have not gone particularly well in general over the last

77
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 3: couple of years. But last week it was very strong.

78
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,840
Speaker 3: Auction was one of the strongest twenty year auctions that

79
00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 3: we've actually had since that point was reintroduced. And so

80
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 3: I do think that that fines and sevens this week

81
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 3: will probably go okay, particularly if they cheapen up a

82
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 3: little bit here over the next forty eight hours.

83
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 2: As Paul, have you totally tuned out at this moment

84
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,279
Speaker 2: because I was talking about auctions.

85
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 4: Yes, sweet, I did, absolutely.

86
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 5: I feel you, I, but I'm ready to follow up here.

87
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 4: What's the soccer match we got to focus on in

88
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,560
Speaker 4: the next couple of days here? I?

89
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 3: Oh, well, I'm still I'm still depressed that the United

90
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 3: States came in fourth in the Nations League in over

91
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,799
Speaker 3: the weekend, losing to both to both Panama and Canada

92
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,279
Speaker 3: in the consolation game. So you know, ask me later

93
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 3: this week and I'll let you know.

94
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,720
Speaker 4: He got him off his game. All right, Iran, thank

95
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 4: you so much. We appreciate it. Ivery Jersey Chief, you

96
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 4: wish interest rate strategist, Chief International soccer strategist for bloomerg Intelligence.

97
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 4: You wears two hats.

98
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 2: There.

99
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

100
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarklay and Android Auto

101
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get

102
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 1: your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

103
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,799
Speaker 2: Alex Deal, You're alongside paulse We need this at Bloomberg

104
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 2: Intelligence Radio. Happy rainy Monday in New York. Were broadcasting

105
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 2: live from our interactive broken studio right here in Mintown, Manhattan,

106
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 2: and also check us out on YouTube as well. I's

107
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,200
Speaker 2: got to check in on the markets. We're obviously seeing

108
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 2: a relief rally here. It's definitely a risk on kind

109
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 2: of day. Does it last? What do you do with it?

110
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,919
Speaker 2: Danian Dioria is co chief investment officer at Investment, joining

111
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 2: us now from Hartford Data. Is this the kind of

112
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: day that you sell into rallies or do you feel like,

113
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 2: all right, things are going to.

114
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: Go well well?

115
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, the obviously the correction that preceded

116
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 6: all of this was a lot more sentiment driven, I

117
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,600
Speaker 6: think than fundamentals driven. And so you know, if you're

118
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 6: going to be trading on any of these moves in

119
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 6: the market, you know, any of the hey, now we're

120
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,200
Speaker 6: going to have a.

121
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 5: Lot of tear ffs, no apso we're cutting back. It's

122
00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 5: going to be the dirty fifteen. It's not going to

123
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 5: be everybody, et cetera.

124
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 6: Then yeah, this is probably a buying moment I think

125
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 6: for the app person. You know, in the average investor,

126
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,320
Speaker 6: it's more about what are the fundamentals here? Do we

127
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 6: actually think you know, the kind of the tariff tantrum

128
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 6: that we're going through and have been going through and

129
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 6: will continue to you know, in spite of a little

130
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 6: bit of positive news on that front, you know, is

131
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 6: that is that something that's going to ultimately lead to

132
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 6: broader concerns in the market. And you know, look, corrections

133
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 6: three quarters of the time don't lead to recessions. But

134
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 6: you know, a lot of it depends on what news

135
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:31,479
Speaker 6: is yet.

136
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 5: To come.

137
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 4: For a world where there is some level of uncertainly

138
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 4: maybe greater than average. Is it a way you construct

139
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 4: your portfolio, is how you allocate your assets or just

140
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 4: buy quality and I guess hope for the best.

141
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:49,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

142
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 6: So I mean, look, there's a there's a lot of

143
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 6: different ways you can kind of come at this. Certainly,

144
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 6: and we sit you know, investments, it's at the junction

145
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 6: of a lot of manager there's.

146
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 5: A lot of research services.

147
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,839
Speaker 6: I mean, certainly you're hearing a lot more international speak.

148
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 6: You know, obviously I came into this year, I'll be

149
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 6: honest with you. We do these chief Investment Officer panels everywhere,

150
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 6: and the idea of US dominance was just you know,

151
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 6: very much a theme at these panels. And you know, look,

152
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 6: markets are cyclical, and certainly the US markets had much

153
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 6: higher valuations than international markets.

154
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 5: I think you're seeing some repricing of that now.

155
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 6: But you know, the tone has shifted, right, and you're

156
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 6: hearing more around well, hey, maybe international diversification is a

157
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 6: good idea in portfolios. We would say that's a long

158
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 6: run secular asset allocation need you know, for most people, right,

159
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 6: unless you're unless you're completely focused on US indexes and

160
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 6: can't handle the tracking error, we would largely say be

161
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 6: diverse bied international markets.

162
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 5: Anyway, we are certainly.

163
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 6: Hearing more now even from a news and macro perspective,

164
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 6: that looking at international you know, having diversification away from

165
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 6: US makes sense.

166
00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: And does that do you have to sell something to

167
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 2: then buy or is this like, hey, I had some cash,

168
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to deploy.

169
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 5: Well, you know, that's a great question because of course.

170
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 6: We've been living in the last few years with this

171
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 6: massive amount of money sitting in cash. And while it's great,

172
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 6: you know, we're past these years of financial repression for

173
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 6: just savers.

174
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 5: We all know that, you know that kind of.

175
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 6: The traditional wisdom is unless it's money you need in

176
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 6: the next three years.

177
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 5: It's probably better served than sitting in cash.

178
00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 6: So there are certainly people with money on the sidelines

179
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 6: who they've missed, you know, whopping twenty plus percent two

180
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 6: years in a row from the S and P for example,

181
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 6: And as we all know, you know, it's time in

182
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 6: the market, right, if you're missing those big months, years,

183
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 6: et cetera, it's really hard to make that back up

184
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 6: when you look at the average that.

185
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,199
Speaker 5: You accumulate over time.

186
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 6: So look, if you if you have long run money

187
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 6: sitting in cash, for sure, we would say put that

188
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 6: into a balanced portfolio. But the other side of the

189
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 6: coin is you've also got a lot of people who

190
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 6: leaned into stocks, right, very pro growth optimism that we

191
00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 6: started the year. You know, obviously big run up, especially

192
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 6: driven by growth, and so you have people who are

193
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 6: overweight equities. And if your overweight equities relative to your

194
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 6: risk tolerance and what you can handle, you know, you

195
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 6: should be thinking about harvesting from the equity position if

196
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,400
Speaker 6: you're doing more equity, and you should also be thinking

197
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 6: about getting more into fixed income.

198
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 4: Well, in your notes, you've got bitcoin is no gold,

199
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 4: So let me get your thoughts on bitcoin.

200
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know it's bitcoin is one dred percent from

201
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 6: my perspective, a risk on speculative asset. I we read

202
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 6: and you know you're seeing headlines obviously now comparing kind

203
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 6: of the performance of bitcoin and gold are these places

204
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:41,800
Speaker 6: to kind of hot out, say again, good, thank you? Yeah,

205
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 6: so so so look are these places to hide out?

206
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 6: And we would just very much point out that they

207
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 6: are massively different. You know, when people think about a

208
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 6: bitcoin investment, they're not thinking about it a as a

209
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 6: currency or b as you know, certainly you know, there's

210
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 6: an argument that this is another form it's digital gold,

211
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 6: but from the standpoint of the volatility of these assets,

212
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 6: there's no comparison.

213
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,560
Speaker 5: And when you're thinking about bitcoin, it's really kind.

214
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 6: Of more this asymmetric payoff, the potential for sort of

215
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 6: like a lott of like return.

216
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 5: If you want.

217
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,400
Speaker 6: That, that's fine, But thinking that it looks like gold

218
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 6: and is going to be a safe haven asset I

219
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:16,679
Speaker 6: think doesn't work.

220
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So that kind of lined me up for the

221
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 2: safe haven part. So all this taking into effect what's

222
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 2: like your best safe haven trade right now?

223
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 6: Certainly fixed income, you know, the standard place to have

224
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 6: ballast in the portfolio, I think makes a lot.

225
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 5: Of sense still.

226
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 6: You know, but if you're talking about with inequity markets,

227
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,319
Speaker 6: you started off there actually mentioned quality.

228
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 5: There's a couple of different ways to go after quality.

229
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,640
Speaker 6: You can do you know, traditional quality is a fundamental indicator.

230
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 6: You're looking for stocks that or you know, frankly ETFs

231
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 6: or mutual funds with a bevy of stocks that have

232
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,200
Speaker 6: high quality earnings, right, so high profitability, you know, not

233
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,680
Speaker 6: the need to reinvest plow a lot of money back in,

234
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 6: you know, and also probably you know, cash based earnings

235
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 6: more than a cruel based earnings. So that's one indicator.

236
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 6: Another is more technical indicator, of course, which is just

237
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 6: what is the volatility of that stock? And you've got

238
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 6: a lot of ways to make that play to the

239
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,720
Speaker 6: traditional defensive sort of you can pick low volatility stocks,

240
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,560
Speaker 6: or you can pick kind of minimum variants where you know,

241
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 6: the stock itself maybe is not the lowest volatility, but

242
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 6: it doesn't correlate well with the rest of the market,

243
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,599
Speaker 6: so it adds sort of padding to the rest of

244
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 6: the portfolio.

245
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:27,959
Speaker 2: That's a really good point, all right, Dana, Thanks Slot.

246
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 2: We really appreciated Dana Diyoria, a CoA Chief investment officer

247
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 2: at Investnet joining us on the markets.

248
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

249
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,160
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto

250
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg business app listen on demand wherever you

251
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch US live on YouTube.

252
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,560
Speaker 2: The other wild carbon than the Trump administration is how

253
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 2: the talks unfold when it comes to peace between Russia

254
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: and Ukraine. Apparently US and Russian officials are meeting in

255
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia to discuss a potential CEA spot in the war,

256
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 2: and this of course follows talks between the American and

257
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,640
Speaker 2: Ukrainian teams joining US now. As Roz mathis and Bloomberg

258
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 2: News director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa, Roz,

259
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 2: what do you know in terms of where the talks

260
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 2: are well?

261
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 7: As you were saying, we had talks initially between the

262
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,959
Speaker 7: US and Ukraine officials in Saudi Arabia. Now we've got

263
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 7: talks that have been going on today between the US

264
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 7: and Russia, and they seem to be really granular and

265
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,959
Speaker 7: quite technical in nature, focused on some specifics around perhaps

266
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 7: getting agreement for ceaespar and maritime traffic in the Black Sea,

267
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 7: for example. We're not getting a lot of redoubts at

268
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 7: the moment from those conversations, so they seem to have

269
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 7: gone into a bit of a quiet phase on it,

270
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 7: at least with each other. But the sense is they're

271
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 7: going bit by bit and this idea of a ceasefi

272
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 7: in Ukraine. We had that conversation aitially around in a

273
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,439
Speaker 7: CESFI fit not hitting each other's energy infrastructure even though

274
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 7: attack seemingly are still going on in the minute. And

275
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 7: now we've got conversations around how to get you know,

276
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 7: guarantees around traffic, maritime traffic in the Black Sea. But

277
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 7: the big one, of course is what to do where

278
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 7: people are actually fighting along the line of contact, which

279
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,960
Speaker 7: is a very long line on the side of Ukraine,

280
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 7: and what to do there in terms of bringing the

281
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,440
Speaker 7: fighting to a holt. There doesn't seem to be any

282
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 7: particular developments on that front so far. So the message

283
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 7: really that we're getting is that even though the US

284
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 7: President clearly wants a very quick ceasefire here, that there's

285
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,439
Speaker 7: a lot of steps that need to happen, a lot

286
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 7: of complexity along the way.

287
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 4: And rise as you point out, the US administration certainly

288
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 4: hopes for a Ukraine piece deal, but it doesn't seem

289
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 4: like Vladimir Putin is in any hurry here. What do

290
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 4: we know about his thinking?

291
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 7: Well, that's right, I mean, obviously he's willing to have

292
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 7: conversations and perhaps even a direct meeting with the US

293
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 7: President with Donald Trump at some point in the near future,

294
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 7: perhaps in a place like Arabia again. But he's made

295
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,680
Speaker 7: it really clear, and that's by our own reporting and

296
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,680
Speaker 7: our own sourcing as well, is that he's got Maximum's

297
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 7: demands here and he's not going to shave those down

298
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,840
Speaker 7: in any great hurry. These are things that he says

299
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 7: that he insists need to happen for there to be

300
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 7: a cease fire moving towards a more permanent deal, and

301
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 7: those are essentially red lines that are not that great

302
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 7: for Ukraine in all of this, in terms of his

303
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 7: territorial demands to make sure that Ukraine can never join NATO,

304
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,720
Speaker 7: for example, to really know confence Ukraine in and whether

305
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 7: those are just demands that he gets traction on with

306
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 7: Donald Trump and the US in the end that are

307
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 7: detrimental to Ukraine. So he's not in any great hurry

308
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 7: here to get to a ceaspar final dear, He's obviously

309
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 7: open to talking, but the position from Russia has been

310
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 7: very clear. They've got demands and they want them met.

311
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 2: What about Europe? Where's Europe right now? In during these conversations,

312
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 2: still trying to get in the door, it seems from

313
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 2: the conversation in a fulsome way at least.

314
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,840
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously we've had a lot of meetings that

315
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 7: have gone on just at the EU level lately, including

316
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 7: last week, and Ealy is having another call this week.

317
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 7: We know that again the US pent the UK Prime

318
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 7: Minister rather talked with Donald Trump yet again. So a

319
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 7: lot of conversations going on, and the message from Europe

320
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 7: is we need to be part of the discussion around

321
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 7: a CEASPA, and Ukraine's interesting to be represented, but it's

322
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 7: very clear that they know they're struggling to get a

323
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 7: seat at the table and that Donald Trump is not

324
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 7: particularly interested in giving them one at the table, let

325
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 7: alone giving Ukraine a proper seat at the table. And

326
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 7: so for Europe the challenge is getting their voice is heard,

327
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 7: or showing that they're there and able to pick up

328
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 7: some of the slack potentially and supporting Ukraine.

329
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 4: Roz Is there any sense of timing when this could

330
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,240
Speaker 4: come together? Is there any consensus building out there?

331
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 7: Well, it's very hard to say, because again these talks

332
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 7: that are going on at the moment seemed to have

333
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 7: been very technical in nature and very specific around detail.

334
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,479
Speaker 7: So are we getting the little pieces of the chessboard

335
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 7: towards a bigger CEASPA at some point? Imagine? The key

336
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 7: thing is whether there's an agreement to have further rounds

337
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 7: of talks within a matter of days or at least

338
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 7: towards the end.

339
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 8: Of this week.

340
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 7: And at what point can that build to a direct

341
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 7: meeting between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, possibly as soon

342
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 7: as next month. I mean, obviously Donald Trump keeps saying

343
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 7: Easter as a timeline. He wants something by Easter. But

344
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 7: what exactly he would be happy to get by easter?

345
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 7: Is it a partial ceasepar again around energy, or perhaps

346
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 7: maritime traffic in the Black Sea as a springboard to

347
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 7: something else. So we're likely to get a full throat

348
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 7: at CSPA either way, at least in the next couple

349
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 7: of weeks.

350
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 2: All right, Ros, thanks a lot, We really appreciate it.

351
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 2: Ras Mathison joining us on the talks between Russia and

352
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 2: the US on Ukraine. All right, some breaking news for you,

353
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 2: ASHALLMI is said to raise about five point five billion

354
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 2: dollars an upsized share placement. They were selling about eight

355
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 2: hundred million shares now, Shelmy was kicking off a share

356
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 2: sale in part to raise funds for its EV business.

357
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 2: The fundraising expected to be a long term positive for

358
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 2: the company, but many saying that it may pressure shale

359
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 2: shares in the short term due to shocker dilution.

360
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 4: And the stock is up bus sixty five percent year

361
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,959
Speaker 4: to date and two hundred and eighty five percent on

362
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,640
Speaker 4: a trilling a twelve month basis. Even I know that's

363
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 4: a good time to self stock.

364
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and they take your point, all right.

365
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: Coming up R J. Gallows, Senior portfolio manager Fixed and

366
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 2: come at Federate Hermes will be joining us on the

367
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 2: fixed income space. We get two fives and tens later

368
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,240
Speaker 2: on this week. A lot of supply coming online there.

369
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

370
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto

371
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you

372
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

373
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 4: Switch over to the EV business interest story out there

374
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 4: that's really been rocking. I think the EV business that's

375
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 4: byd you know, saying they've gon have a five minute

376
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 4: charging system that is a game changer if that is

377
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,639
Speaker 4: in fact the case. Let's check in with bn EF

378
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 4: folks here b n EF. They cover all the energy

379
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 4: industry head to toe. Alex's b but they've got all

380
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 4: the data, all the analysis. Great stuff. Ryan Fisher joins

381
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,880
Speaker 4: us Bloomberg bn EF EV Charging team leader. So Ryan,

382
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 4: talk to us about this by d story as relates

383
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 4: to this fast charger.

384
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean this has just come out of nowhere.

385
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 9: In some ways, we had the portions of this world

386
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 9: doing charging three fifty KILLOW. This is a thousand killer

387
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 9: what we were three to four times the kind of

388
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 9: other best in class that people were expecting when we

389
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 9: talk about five minutes. Obviously, that's similar to gasoline for

390
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 9: four hundred kilometers of charge. Some of the others are

391
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,879
Speaker 9: more like the best in class. Lucid obviously is quite famous.

392
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 9: They're doing it in like one hundred maybe one hundred

393
00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 9: and eighty kilometers in that time.

394
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 8: This is a real step change.

395
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 9: And not only is it that, what you've got is

396
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,959
Speaker 9: an announcement and they're going to do it, going to

397
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 9: make the vehicles available a month later. So typically you

398
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 9: might hear an announcement from a Western automaker and maybe

399
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 9: a couple of years later that tech you've heard about

400
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 9: will be there. Whereas they're saying these vehicles in China,

401
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 9: you'll be able to buy them soon, but yeah, that

402
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 9: is only in China.

403
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 2: How how did they get it down to five minutes?

404
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 9: So it seems like they've improved the fast charging technology

405
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 9: through both the voltage so you have higher voltage on

406
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 9: the vehicles, you could lower the current or the current

407
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 9: to accept this power, and then changing the battery chemistry

408
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 9: as well.

409
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 8: So the interesting thing is.

410
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 9: That they've added different types of calling because if you

411
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 9: have really high currents going through the battery, then you

412
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 9: have a lot of heat.

413
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 8: Being created, so they've changed their cooling technology.

414
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 9: They've improved some of the other intricacies of the sales

415
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 9: as well. And on a bigger market point, you've got

416
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 9: a lot of companies saying we're going to build solid

417
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 9: state batteries, so like next generation battery technologies for the car, Well,

418
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 9: is that even needed any more? Or if BYD can

419
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 9: do this with an evolution of the current tech.

420
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 4: So what can be what likely will be the competitive

421
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 4: response from the Western battery infrastructure people. They got to

422
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 4: up their game, like now don't they.

423
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's just such a race.

424
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 9: Like you look at these evs and you think about

425
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 9: buying one, and there's just something new coming that's more advanced,

426
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 9: one after the other. So like as a consumer, maybe

427
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 9: you don't want to buy because you think, well, I'm

428
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 9: going to buy something that'd be absollete pretty quick. From

429
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 9: the Western automakers, they're going to find it hard. You

430
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 9: look at BYD they've just got so many engineers, they're

431
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 9: vertically integrated. They're doing much of this by themselves, all

432
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 9: the way down to now buying the ships to distribute

433
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 9: these cars they've built around the world and getting involved

434
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 9: in the metals and mining game and things like that.

435
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 9: So it's hard to imagine how everybody is going to compete. Obviously,

436
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 9: we've got tariffs in different regions to try and block

437
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 9: the Chinese out, and then when you think about this tech,

438
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 9: there is an element of do you actually need it?

439
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 9: So when you look on the Chinese articles, they were

440
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 9: looking at the JAOMIU Su seven, which is the vehicle

441
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 9: made by the Jami, which is the smartphone maker. So

442
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 9: they've entered the market and they're selling electric vehicles and

443
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 9: the hundreds of thousands of volume. They've outsold loads of cars.

444
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 9: It's kind of an amazing story, and people comparing saying, well, actually,

445
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 9: this one BYD is talking about is ten thousand dollars

446
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 9: more expensive. So like the tech is not necessarily everything

447
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 9: on fast charging when there's people who are doing I

448
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 9: don't know, fast cars.

449
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 8: Fancy cars.

450
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,239
Speaker 9: They've got a lot of other features as well, like

451
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 9: whilst this is a step change, do we necessarily need

452
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 9: five minutes over ten minutes?

453
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 8: Does everybody care? It's debatable.

454
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: I mean it depends how long your bathroom break is,

455
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 2: which you know you got a shot some concessions. Okay.

456
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 2: We also had the headline that BYD is out selling

457
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 2: Tesla's in China. In particular, you can't get a BYD

458
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: car in the US, I should point that out. And

459
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: the BYD sales for this year about five to six

460
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 2: million cars. So is this five minute battery like a

461
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 2: big selling point for this in comparison to say a

462
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: Tesla or no?

463
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think so.

464
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 9: And then in China what you've got is I think

465
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 9: last year BID saw something like one point six million

466
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 9: pure battery election because just the battery powers the car,

467
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 9: and I think Tesla was somewhere around six hundred thousand

468
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 9: to seven hundred thousand.

469
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 8: So it gives you, and they were seconds.

470
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 9: It gives you an idea Tesla doing well, but obviously

471
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 9: just how well BYD are doing one of the things

472
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 9: BYD had been leaning into previously with these plug.

473
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 8: In hybrid models. So you have an engine and you

474
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 8: have a battery.

475
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 9: The engine might only be small and the car itself

476
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 9: might be mainly running off the battery. So they've done

477
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 9: quite well with those, and it might just show a

478
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 9: little bit of a pivot from them to say, actually,

479
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 9: we can.

480
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 8: Maybe do without the engine. Now, look we've got this.

481
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 9: Huge range, huge huge, huge range, fast charging power vehicles

482
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 9: like you don't necessarily need.

483
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 8: To worry about that.

484
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 9: Also, it might be a pivot from them in terms

485
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 9: of Tesla versus BYD when you said that they're not

486
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 9: available in the US.

487
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 8: But they are available in other regions.

488
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 9: So they've done very well in places like Brazil and Thailand.

489
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 9: There's something like eighty ninety percent share of the EV

490
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 9: market there, and like eighteen ninety percent share is obviously

491
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 9: huge for the So that's just that's Chinese manufacturers, with

492
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 9: which Bwide is pretty major one they've got to plant

493
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 9: out in Brazil as well, so they're making moves to

494
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 9: kind of dominate those The charging tech could be part

495
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 9: of that too. So the interesting thing is, like we've

496
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 9: had these like charging connector wars. Do you have the

497
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 9: Tesla connector do you have the connector that all the

498
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 9: other manufacturers are using? And in Europe all the other

499
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 9: manufacturers won out. In America, Tesla went out well. Arguably

500
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 9: in some of these kind of smaller merging markets, this

501
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 9: that you could end up with the Chinese connector becoming

502
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 9: an interesting proposition and maybe the Chinese automotive industry will

503
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 9: think about that. And it doesn't mean that they've got

504
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 9: it so far, but if they're selling the most cars

505
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 9: and they've got the most advanced charging tech, then maybe

506
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 9: that's the way.

507
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 8: That they can exert more influence over the rest of

508
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 8: the world.

509
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: Hi, Ryan really appreciate it. Ryan Fisher is EV Charging

510
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: team leader. That basically means he heads up all the

511
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: coverage when it comes to EV charging at Bloomberg BNF,

512
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: and as Paul was saying earlier, Bloomberg EF covers pretty

513
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: much everything commodities, power, transport, industry, buildings and ad sectors,

514
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: all to help with the energy transition and some hard

515
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: data there.

516
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

517
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each

518
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

519
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.

520
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube

521
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal