1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: The fundamentals are there for inflation for a while. We 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: don't necessarily need zero interest rates forever. Washington at this 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: point doesn't want to add regulation to bitcoin. Bloomberg Sound 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: On Politics, Policy perspective from DC's top name. So let's 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: look at the student loan debt, which is absolutely staggering 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: my view, you can't spend enough on infrastructure. Given the 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: size of fiscal stimulus we've already seen. This seems like 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Live from Washington, where the work 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: goes on the Senate setting up a vote on infrastructure 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: for later this week, now that we have an actual 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: document and hands are ringing over evictions today after a 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: federal moratorium expired over the weekend. Yeah it's August. We'll 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: talk about both of these coming up with Congressman John 16 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: garremand Democrat from California who serves on the House Transportation 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: and Infrastructure Committee. Later we'll get insights from Bloomberg Politics 18 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis and Democratic strategist Roger Fisk. And thank 19 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: you for being with us on Bloomberg Sound On. We 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: begin with the most urgent matter at hand in Washington, 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: and that is evictions. The federal moratorium we talked about 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: Friday expired over the weekend as many feared the House 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: when on recess adjourned, and there are some big questions 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: about what happens now to millions of people who are 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: behind on the rents, especially those living in states that 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: do not have strong laws to protect them. Joining us 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: to talk about this as well as the latest on 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: the infrastructure debate, both evolving over the weekend is Congressman 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: John Garamendi, Democrat from California. Welcome back, Congressman. We're glad 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: to have you. I see your state has its own 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: eviction moratorium, so tenants are protected for now. When would 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: Californians have to worry about this? Well, hopefully once this 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: economy gets up and going UH, and we get the 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: infrastructure of things in place and the rest of the 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: programs that we've been trying to get out of the Congress, UH, 36 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: then this eviction issue will not be so big. California's 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: moratorium and September at the end of September, but it 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: can be renewed and The real issue here is what 39 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: do we make of the delta surge. Are we back 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: into a very very heavy situation as we were five 41 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: six months ago. If so, the CDC could issue another 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 1: National Health Emergency. We'll see. But right now the real 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: question is why haven't states that have had the money 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: for five or six months not used it for the 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: purposes of helping people with their rent during the downturn. Well, 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: there's no question um the election of duty, pain and simple. 47 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: They don't give a hoot about people that are going 48 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: to lose their homes for lack of rent. But we 49 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: need to understand that for almost all of twenty twenty 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: and a good portion of the first half of it, UH, 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: there was a lockdown and the highest unemployment, the most 52 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: precipitous increase and unemployment ever in this country's history took place. 53 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: And the lent billion dollars was made available by Congress 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: in two different transs. One was the Omnibus funding back 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: in December, just before the first of the year in 56 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: the cycle, and was the rescue built forty billion dollars 57 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: to help renters close the gap between when they lost 58 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: their job and when they go back to work out 59 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: forty billion that is still out there available to the spans. 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: So come on, states, come on, cities, you can do it. 61 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: The information in some states simply have refused to do 62 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: anything to help their renters even though they had the money. 63 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: We heard today from White House advisor Gene Sperling was 64 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: asked by reporters in the briefing room at the White House, 65 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: why doesn't the administration just extend the ban like Nancy 66 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: Pelosi has asked. He was also asked repeatedly why the 67 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: money's not getting out the door on the state level, 68 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: to your point, and he answered that question essentially by 69 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: saying that this is kind of the first time we've 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: tried to do this nationally. Here's what he said. Our 71 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: country did not have a national infrastructure for doing this. 72 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: I mean, one point five billion went out in June. Uh, 73 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: that is not nearly enough. That is certainly more than 74 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: has ever happened in a month in our country. So 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: Congress asked us to set that up for that to 76 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: be imposed at a state local level. So it requires 77 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: every state and local government, many of them, to set 78 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: up process. So I'm not again, I understand the challenges 79 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: they were facing. Of course, if you're about to lose 80 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: your home. It's it's difficult to understand these challenges. Congressmen. 81 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: Is this a matter of simply priming the pump where 82 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: the state's just not ready? I think the states the 83 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: big switch. It can Abut there's no reason you couldn't 84 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: be done. They know the information is readily available at 85 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: every state level. Who are the owners of various rental properties. Uh, 86 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: certainly the large rental properties, those are readily available. At 87 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: the city and county level. That information could have been 88 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: made available. The money could go directly to the landloards 89 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: or directly to the tenants to go either way. The 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: law was open to that kind of change. They simply 91 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: chose not to do it, and frankly, the federal government 92 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: wasn't pushing them to get it done. Among the many 93 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: issues that was ignored was this one until the very 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: last moment. So shame on the states, shame on the city. 95 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: Said let this thing go by. They can do it. 96 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: It can be done now this and Gene, I love you. 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes you're right, sometimes wrong. But uh, have you heard 98 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: about the p p P program for businesses huge businesses 99 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: and then the small businesses? How did that get done? 100 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: It got done? Because the businesses were screaming for help, 101 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: and Congress heard about it. The administration, the previous one 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: and this one heard about it, and they got the 103 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: money out to do it to the businesses. But the 104 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: writers weren't screaming, weren't crying. Uh. The eviction notice, the 105 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: eviction stay was in place, and people Latti Dott and 106 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: here we are, here we are a congressman. Uh. So, 107 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: I guess the questions will remain about the best way 108 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: to handle this, But I if I'm hearing you correctly, 109 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: getting that money out the door on the state level 110 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: would probably happen more quickly, maybe more effectively than creating 111 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: new legislation or having the White House get into a 112 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: legal problem with an extension. Is that Is that a 113 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: fair assessment? Yes, the Supreme Court did allow the last one. 114 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: Kada was very clear, I'll do this one because we 115 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: have an emergency. I'm not ever going to approve another one. 116 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: That remains to be seen. We may very so, we 117 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: may have a very serious emergency with the delta. But 118 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: at the moment um, everybody's reading the Supreme Court and 119 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: saying no, they're not going to approve another extension of 120 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: the moratorium. On evictions. But the money is out there 121 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: and the cities and counties could do it. This is 122 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: not a big deal. Certainly, every the property facts it 123 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: rolls clearly show who who has rental property up. Anyway, 124 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: it can be done, and it can be done quickly. 125 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: Can Congress passed another law? We could, but i's going 126 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: to push the money out the door to we bring 127 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: it back in and put it in the Department of 128 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: Housing or a small business administration. Could be done, but 129 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: then you got to set up a nationwide model that 130 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: may or may not fit. I don't know. Use the 131 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: money we already gave. Yeah, I got you. The money 132 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: is there. Congressman John Garamendi talking with us on Bloomberg 133 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: sound On. Sorry for stepping on you. Congressman. I want 134 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: to ask you about the infrastructure debate because you and 135 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: I had what I thought was a memorable conversation about 136 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: that a couple of weeks ago, when you told me 137 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: that this was the infrastructure of yesterday. You weren't happy 138 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: with the form that this Senate deal was King. It's 139 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: pretty similar I think now from when we talked about it, 140 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: and I wonder if if you would support that bill 141 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: if it came to the House. Well, it's interesting, I 142 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: would call very well the debate I discussion I had 143 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: with you. I think I surprised you by saying, no, 144 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: it's very very concerned about what the Senate was doing. 145 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: And ye I was. A few days later we got 146 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: more information about what the Senate actually was in the 147 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: process of doing. On I'll bet to I was going 148 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: to phone and ask me if I've changed my mind, 149 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: and the answer is yeah, Joe. Once we got the information, 150 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: is what the Senate we're doing, Uh, it's it is 151 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: very close to what we wanted to do. Uh. It 152 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: is forward thinking, not as forward thinking as the House bill, 153 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: but most of the things that we needed are there. 154 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: Some of the differences, particularly on the electrification of highways, 155 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: isn't sufficient, however the policy. If the policy is in place, 156 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: then the Reconciliation Bill can put more money behind it 157 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: if the policies in place. Now, late last night, pages 158 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: of law we're passed out to the general public, and 159 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: I must say that there's a serious case of staff 160 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: indigestion as they try to understand what it's all about. 161 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: We'll get into the details, but the not just the 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: top line, but you get down into the various sections. Yeah, 163 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: I changed my mind once I saw what they were doing. Well, 164 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: maybe they just listened to you and me and they 165 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: decided to do it. Hathways, let's just let's just circle 166 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: this date on the calendar. Here a member of Congress 167 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: saying on the air that they changed their mind. It's 168 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: just it's it's uh, it's refreshing, and I have to 169 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: admit I don't think you're allowed to do that though, Well, 170 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: yes I am, uh, particularly when there's new facts. And 171 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: this is the Delta thing about face masks and social 172 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: distancing and all the rest. Yeah, we didn't need face 173 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: masks back in June and July, early July because we 174 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: didn't have delta. Now we have delta. My god, I'm 175 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: putting my face mask back on when I go to 176 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: the hardware store a grocery store because the facts have changed. 177 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: And in the case of your previous conversation with Willian 178 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: and this one, I don't know if the facts have changed, 179 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: but the facts have been made available, and it looks 180 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: like the Senate bill is on track to answer most 181 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: of everything that I think needs to be done building 182 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: for the future. Well, that's true, there was no text 183 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: at that point. To be fair, we were asking a 184 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of members. They said, we'll show us the bill. 185 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: Is there enough money for water water resources? I know 186 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: this is a massive issue for the state of California, 187 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: and in northern California where it's not only wildfires but 188 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: big agriculture, the wine industry. You need water more than 189 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: most in this country. I believe Congressman, will this help well, Actually, 190 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: everybody needs water. There appears to be two different water 191 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: programs in the legislation. One is the General Water Clean 192 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: Water Act program that provides money for improving uh urban 193 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: water systems and some money for small isolated water systems. 194 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: This is lead pipe and other kinds of water systems 195 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: of urban The others there appears to be fifty billion 196 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: dollars for Western water systems. That's going to be extremely important. 197 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: If for reservoirs. I suspect it will not be for 198 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: onstream reservoirs, but offstream reservoirs, aquifers, improving damn safety and 199 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: other expanding existing dams, things of that sort, and it's 200 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: gonna be extremely important for California. We have a reservoir 201 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: that I've been pushing now for a decade called Sites 202 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: Reservoir north of Sacramento. It is off the Sacramento rivers, 203 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: so you don't have all the problems that you have 204 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: building on the river in this one and a half 205 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: million acre feet of water. If that was available today, 206 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: that million and a half acre feet of water could 207 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: be used to address a large part of the drought problem, 208 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: certainly for the fishing river as well as for a 209 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: certain agriculture. Congressman John Garamendi, Democrat from California. I'm Joe Matthew. 210 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 211 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Well, so much for a quiet 212 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: August in Washington. I know it's only the second These 213 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: are supposed to be the dog days when you can't 214 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: get a a debate going. Instead, you can find a 215 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: parking spot anywhere, you can find a table anywhere. But 216 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: we're just getting started on this debate over infrastructure now 217 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: dealing with the evictions moratorium and new guidance on COVID. 218 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: Things feel pretty busy around here today. We're bringing the 219 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: panel with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis with us this 220 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: morning and Roger Fisk make that afternoon. Democratic strategist and 221 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: principle at New Day Strategy. Welcome to both of you. Roger, 222 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with you because you know that this 223 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: White House would not put out Jeens Spurling in front 224 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: of reporters unless it was important. What does that tell you? 225 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: What does that tell us about the public relations around 226 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: this whole eviction moratorium expiring? Well, first out, Joe, thank 227 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: you so much for having me. I love being on 228 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: the show, and I also love being on the show 229 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: with Rick. You know I would if you're correct, which 230 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: is when Spurrowing is sent out, that's that's really someone 231 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: being sent out there to deliver some straight, sober policy 232 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: talk to the to the media. He's not really going 233 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: to go down in history as as much of a 234 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: spin master. Um And I think that I would make 235 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: a point a little bit differently than they did, which is, 236 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, in just a system dynamics kind of way, 237 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: you right now have one problem, which is how can 238 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: you keep people in their homes? If you don't if 239 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: you don't figure this out, that problem becomes six or 240 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: seven eight problems you get into. It's going to manifest 241 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: when you disrupt these families into school attendance into shelters 242 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 1: and then carrying capacity of people when they're in shelters. 243 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: It's gonna lead to work disruption. So I think what 244 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: I would be saying that people would be would you 245 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: rather saw one problem? Because I would even imagine the 246 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: landlords are invested in some kind of solution too, because 247 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: it's empty all their units. Who are they going to rento? 248 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: And if by a first last and the security deposit, 249 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: then they wouldn't need to move right, So I think 250 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: I would go out and say do you want one problem? 251 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: Where do you want seven? Because that's what we'll end 252 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: up with if if all these folks get evicted and 253 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: then start to focus on like a dy day six. 254 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: I think so I think that's the way forward. Rick. 255 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on the optics here 256 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: the Press Secretary stepping aside, Jeane Spurling holding forth for 257 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: quite a while. I mean if he did over half 258 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: an hour, uh close to an hour at the podium 259 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: and made the point that essentially the job today and 260 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: unless I'm reading between the wrong lines, was that Nancy 261 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: Pelosi is wrong that the White House cannot move on 262 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: its own in this case, as that the letters and 263 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: announcements go from one side of Pennsylvania Avenue to the other. 264 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: Here's what he said. I would say that on this 265 00:14:55,160 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: particular issue, presidents not only kicked the tires, he has double, triple, 266 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: quadruple checked. He has uh asked the CDC to look 267 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: at whether you could even do targeted viction moratorium that 268 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,479 Speaker 1: just went to the county's uh that have higher rates, 269 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: and they as well have been unable to find the 270 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: legal authority for even new targeted eviction moratoriums. And the 271 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: messages Rick our hands are tied. Well, I think Roger 272 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: really picked it off. I mean, there there are so 273 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: many things that can spin out of control here in 274 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: August if this isn't dealt with. But this should have 275 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: been dealt with a long time ago. I mean, they 276 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: had forty six and a half billion dollars has already 277 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: been allocated for this problem, and they can't get it 278 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: out the door. Other states states can actually uh extend moratoriums. 279 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: We heard that, you know from Congressman Germondy that California's 280 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: meritor moratorium doesn't end until the end of September, buying 281 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: a little bit more time. But like this is a 282 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: failure of the system, I mean in the system being 283 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: run right now by Democrats. And I don't mean to 284 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: me to make this a partisan thing, but like Congress 285 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: could have dealt with this a long time ago. And 286 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: yet Friday before uh they leave in the House, Uh 287 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker, tries to get unanimous consent to 288 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: do something about this a little late. Uh, Mrs Speaker. So, 289 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I I think this is just a huge 290 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: failure and and now everyone's trying to like spin it back. 291 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: But if I were the president, I'd be on the 292 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: phone with fifty governors saying, look, you've gotta bail me 293 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: out on this thing. You don't want to disaster at 294 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: your your state level. Ya, I got forty six billion 295 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: dollars to give to you. Uh that that that is 296 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: ready to go. Uh, you know, extend your moratoriums. Isn't 297 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: that the strategy here? Roger put it on the states. 298 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: At this point, the Congressman Garamendy was just making the 299 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: point that we can get that money out quicker than 300 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: writing new legislation, reallocating finding some other path. Yeah, you 301 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: really need executives on the state level to push their 302 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: agencies and bureaus to get this money out the door. 303 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean, the the Galla figures of what's already in 304 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: the pipeline is pretty stunning. And I think this is 305 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: emblematic of one of the dangers that we are somewhat 306 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: seeing across the board. There is a posture that some 307 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: people are assuming that we're closer to the finish line 308 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: than we are to the starting line on this, and 309 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: we have no way of knowing if that's true. We 310 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: might not be even halfway through. We could still be 311 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: much closer to the starting line of this whole thing. 312 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: So people need to be on essentially kind of a 313 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: in a governmental context on the state level, in an 314 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: emergency war room footing and finding those lobjams and drilling 315 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: down to the subcabinet level, and and and finding the 316 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: accounts of finding the people that need to sign off 317 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: on actually ambulating some of this stuff out the door, 318 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: and just going with a maximum persuade like all systems 319 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: on uh, you know, higher loads, and treating this like 320 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: it's a forest flare, because it essentially is. Well, I 321 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: guess that's true, Rick, And with what we have u 322 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: in terms of timing here is less than a minute. 323 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: How much of this has to do with red tape 324 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: versus politics? Is this really about bureaucracy? You know, I 325 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: don't think it's about bureaucracy. I think it's a This 326 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: is actually about execution failure. The money was in the pipeline, 327 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: there's a system to distribute it, and this administration didn't 328 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: get ahead of it, and and now everyone's looking at 329 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: Congress for bailout and they didn't do it soon enough. 330 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: We'll bring back Rick Davis and Roger fisk In a 331 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: little bit up next, how did we even get here? 332 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: We'll spend some time with Bloomberg government legislative analyst Michael 333 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: Smallberg on the origins of this new crisis not so new. 334 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: Stay with us on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew. This 335 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg broadcasting line from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to 336 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine 337 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: to the country, Serious XM Channel one, and around the 338 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: globe the Bloomberg Business app. Then Bloomberg Radio dot Com. 339 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew. White House 340 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: says it's kicking the tires, checking, double checking, triple checking 341 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: for any possible ways to get relief to renters after 342 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: the federal moratorium on evictions expired over the weekend. We 343 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: keep hearing the White House in Congress had months to 344 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: get it done, and we'll talk about how this whole 345 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: thing started, how it went on for so long, coming 346 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: up with Bloomberg government legislative analyst Michael Smallberg. Because one 347 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: deadline was not enough, Washington managed to miss another one 348 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: last weekend, allowing the federal moratorium on evictions to expire, 349 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: in creating a new crisis potentially in the midst of COVID, 350 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: the idea of millions of people losing their homes just 351 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: as we enter a new surge of cases with the 352 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: delta variant, that at least is the fear. And we're 353 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: joined now to talk about the background here with Bloomberg 354 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: government legislative analyst Michael Smallberg. Great work on the terminal here, Michael. 355 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: As you remind us, the eviction moratorium was first established 356 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: under a COVID relief law more than a year ago. 357 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: How could this have gone on for so long? It's 358 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: been extended three times. Everyone saw this coming, right, Yeah, 359 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: this is a deadline we all saw coming from from 360 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: a long ways away. Um, as you said, this is 361 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: something that the Congress first adopted back in March. They 362 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: actually imposed a narrower version of this eviction moratorium that 363 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: was focused on UM, federally government backed properties. UM. Then 364 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: the once that expired, the CDC took a pretty extraordinary 365 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: step under the Trump administration in September. UH, the agency 366 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: used its public health authority to impose an eviction band 367 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: the argument being that, UM, you know, keeping people in 368 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: their homes would protect them from the spread of a 369 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: coronavirus with the you know, as opposed to kicking them 370 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: out and leaving them homeless or doubling or tripling up 371 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: in a in a different housing setting. UM. So this 372 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: is something that again, as I said, was first adopted 373 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: by Congress, and then under the Trump administration. The Bian 374 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: administration has extended it a number of times. UM. But 375 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: the one of the twists now recently is that the 376 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has also weighed in on this match. So 377 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: talk to me about that. How did this get to 378 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court? Who challenged it? So there have been 379 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: a lot of challenges, UM, understandably from from landlords, UH, 380 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: in real estate trade groups. UM. You know, a lot 381 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: of landlords are saying that their courts suffering financially now 382 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: as well. You know, they have their own mortgages and 383 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: insurance payments to make, and they're not getting their rental 384 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: income from their tenants, um. And a lot of them 385 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: said that the CDC exceeded its authority by interfering in 386 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: the relationship between UH tenants and and lords um. And 387 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: so a number of lower courts haven't sympathetic to those arguments. 388 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: They have, Um, you know, there haven't no, none of 389 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: the courts have actually thrown out or completely blocked on 390 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: this order. But when one of these cases got to 391 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court ruled very narrowly in 392 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: a five to four decision to keep the ban in 393 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: place for now. But Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote in an 394 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: opinion that, um, you know that he would basically give 395 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: the agency till the end of July, which is when 396 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: it said its latest extension would ride. But then at 397 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: that point, you know, he said it's got to go 398 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: back to Congress to make this happening. He made pretty 399 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: clear that in his view of the CDC did exceed 400 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: its authority. So it happened now, saying the White House 401 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: just on Thursday, a few days before the mort Ram expired, 402 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: came to Commerce and said, we need you step in 403 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: and uh and take action. And we've had the back 404 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: and forth going on between Congress and the White House 405 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: since them. It sounds like the White House is being 406 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: honest about its lack of legal standing here. Right, does 407 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: does does Nancy Pelosi essentially want the White House to 408 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: extend the moratorium and then just deal with the court. 409 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: Is that basically what she's saying, Because the White House 410 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: does not have the authority here, then, Yeah, the White 411 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: House has said it genuinely has tried to explore all 412 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: of us legal avenues and that it just may not 413 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: have the authority to extend this any further. Um. You know, 414 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: just today the White House said it's encouraging the CDC 415 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: to extend it another thirty days, uh in in in 416 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: particular high risk areas. Um. But you know, one problem 417 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: for for Nancy Pelosi is that, um, you know, there 418 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: there are some disagreements even among Democrats about this issue. Um. 419 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: You know, I think some Democrats are sympathetic to the 420 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: argument that Congress has already provided separate from the eviction moratorium, 421 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: they provided some forty seven billion dollars in emergency aid 422 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: that was supposed to go to renters and tenants that 423 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: were struggling. Um. And so I think a lot of lawmakers, 424 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: although they're you know, deeply worried about this, the headline 425 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: passing and they want to take action, I think some 426 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: of them were more focused on, uh, looking into what's 427 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: gone on with that forty seven billion dollars, because only 428 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: a small fraction of that has actually made its way 429 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: into the pockets of eligible households who are then able 430 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: to pay their rent and catch up on on all 431 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: the missing payments they made in the past, which is 432 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: going to be a huge problem of course. Uh, you 433 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: know once this moratorium end. Yeah, we've talked to members 434 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle who have said that 435 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: they've already sent the money, so it's time for the 436 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: states to use it. I do want to ask you 437 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: quickly in the time that we have left, Michael, about 438 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: the impact of COVID. This came up today in the 439 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: White House briefing with with the President's advisor Gene Sperling, 440 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: when he was asked repeatedly what changed, how how did 441 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: you get caught off guard? Why? Last week? And he 442 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: pointed to Covid. In his answer, Here's what he said. 443 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: I think really what has happened when we are all 444 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: dealing with is that the rise of the delta variant 445 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: is particularly harmful for those who are most likely to 446 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: face a vict And as that reality became more clear 447 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: going into the end of last week, I think all 448 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: of us started asking what more could we do? I 449 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: think he was speaking about Congress as well, with all 450 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: of us there, Michael. Now, with that said, if COVID 451 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: made this more urgent and we still continue to see 452 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: cases and hospitalizations rise, could the CDC have new authority 453 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: acting to relieve the nation from the pandemic and therefore 454 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: extend this Again, that's a great question, and it is 455 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: the right you know, the surge of that delta variant 456 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: that does have the CDC, UH and lawmakers particularly worried 457 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: right now. I think some lawmakers, progressive Democrats in particular, 458 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: are encouraging the are encouraging the White House in the 459 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: CDC to to really FLEXI flex its muscles and and 460 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: try to extend this moratorium no matter what you know, 461 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: and and see how those challenges play out in the court. Um. 462 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, another issue here is that some states are 463 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: now starting to adopt their own eviction band, so, especially 464 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: with the federal moratorium running out now, we may see 465 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: a number of other states adopt their own, at least 466 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: short term policies uh TO to try to put a 467 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: pause on evictions while this issue is sorted out at 468 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the federal level. Bloomberg Government legislative analyst Michael Smallberg, great work, 469 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: and thanks for walking us back through that. Michael. It's 470 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: actually very helpful to understand where you are if you 471 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: know where we came from. Stay with us on Bloomberg 472 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: Sound On. We'll bring the panel back. We'll also talk 473 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's tomp Orlick about what has been going on 474 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: in China with the crackdown on not just big tech 475 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: but US listed shares. You probably don't need me to 476 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: tell you. We'll get into it. It's our big take 477 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: today and it's next on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew 478 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg son On with 479 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Yeah, the headline on the terminal, 480 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: Jijin Ping's capitalist SmackDown sparks a trillion dollar reckoning. Bloomberg's 481 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: Tom or like shares the byline on the Big Take 482 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: today on the Bloomberg and he's with us now, Tom, 483 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: welcome back. This hits home for many investors holding China stocks. 484 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: Of course, from Baba to d D, they've in many 485 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: cases lost a significant amount of money, a trillion dollar 486 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: reckoning here over the past couple of weeks. You're calling 487 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: this progressive authoritarianism, a president using his power to support 488 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: the middle class at the expense of the fat cats 489 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: and their investors. Does she see himself as some sort 490 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: of Robin hood top I think that's an interesting way 491 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: of framing it, Joe. I mean, if we think about 492 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: the sort of the largest sweep of China's recent history. 493 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: Of course, China is a strange beast, but for the 494 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: last forty years or so, there's been space for entrepreneurs 495 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: and the investors that back them to drive China's development. 496 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: What's happened in the last few months is there's signs 497 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: that might be starting to change. It started last year 498 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: with the surprise squashing of the I P O for 499 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: a financial that's the financial arm of Ali Baba. Since then, 500 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: we've had monopoly investigations into tech giants, and then most 501 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: recently Shijin Ping saying, you know what, we don't want 502 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: private capital in the education sector. So we think this 503 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: is a pretty significant change. As China's growth is slowing, 504 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: the priority for China's leaders is shifting. They want more 505 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: of the pie for China's squeezed middle class, and they 506 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: don't care if that comes at the expense of a 507 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: smaller share of share of the pie for the entrepreneurs 508 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: and the investors. Do they not here? I've I've heard 509 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: some reports recently saying, boy, the government Beijing is a 510 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: little bit concerned that the selling has been overdone. Maybe 511 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: we said a little bit much, But I guess the 512 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: question is does China need foreign investment US investment or 513 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 1: or is that the point of this message American investors, 514 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: We don't really need you. You know, if we think 515 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: back to the end of President Trump signed a bill 516 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: which threatened to DLST Chinese companies from US exchanges, and 517 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: the motivation there was the US saying, you know what, 518 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: China is a geopolitical rival, and we don't want US 519 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: investment dollars paying for the growth of a geopolitical rival. Well, 520 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: guess what the message from Shi Jimping and from Beijing 521 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: right now is actually, we don't want your money either. 522 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: We don't want Chinese technology companies listing in the United 523 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: States taking US investment dollars because we think maybe that 524 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: gives the US financial sector the US regulates, is the 525 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: US government a leva which they can use to influence 526 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: what's going on here in China. So back at the 527 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: end of twenty it seemed like the US wanted to 528 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: financially decouple from China. Now it seems like China wants 529 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: to financially decouple from the US. Thanks to Bloomberg's Tom 530 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Orlick for talking with us today on Bloomberg Sound On. 531 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: Thank you Tom. We bring back the panel now having 532 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: heard this, Democratic strategist Roger Fisk Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. Rick, 533 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: We've talked about China more than once, and I was 534 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: struck hearing Tom say in the studio that China basically 535 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: does not want our money, does not want American investment. 536 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: I thought China needed American money. Yeah. I wouldn't get 537 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: too carried away with the idea that China is turning 538 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 1: its nose up to American capitalism. I mean, it's been 539 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: the model with which They've tried to expand their economy 540 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: and has done quite successfully. I would note that when 541 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: the SEC said that they're going to start looking at, 542 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, disclosure of risk of government interference with China, 543 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: China's like, wait a minute, we can cooperate with the SEC. 544 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: We can work with regulators to make sure that that 545 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: flow of funds doesn't start. So I think you see 546 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot of posturing. I think it's not just about 547 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: capitalism here. It's also about national security. And China doesn't 548 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: want its tech companies, especially to to have any influence 549 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: from the West, uh in in the data and the 550 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: extension of their influence. And I think as much as 551 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: it's about social stability and and and and what happens 552 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: domestically with China, the national security component of this is 553 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: very strong. Moj you served for years in the Obama administration, 554 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you remember the first meeting between Obama 555 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: and She. Some thought it was a new day for 556 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: China for the relationship, a leader who would bring change 557 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: in the way he deals with the West. Were they 558 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: wrong then? Or has presidents she changed? Fascinating dynamic, right? 559 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that impacted so much 560 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: is how we view time, like four years of a 561 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: presidential administration in American context is like a week in 562 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: Chinese terms. Right late, they're they're thinking and planning about 563 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: um but the same but the same assertiveness that we 564 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: see in this market context is playing out, for example, 565 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: with the silos that we've just discovered in the shen 566 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: Gen region. And I think China needs to understand every 567 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: time that they become more assertive in one context, it 568 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: makes things more problematic for them in another, because, for example, 569 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: they're still doing in front of the World Bank and 570 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: categorizing themselves as a developing economy. Now when you're doubling 571 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: and tripling your nuclear arsenal, which we have strong evidence 572 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: that they're doing, it's very difficult to turn around and 573 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: to say that you're still a developing economy. So when 574 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: they do things like this, we're trying to decouple from 575 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: the West in this way, and I agree with Rick 576 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: point this is a lot more wind than it is rain. 577 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about this in the in the 578 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: in the domestic Chinese context is that for one of 579 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: the few times you see see actually playing to a 580 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: domestic audience in terms of a specific brand and in 581 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: terms of playing to specific constituencies, which is not necessarily 582 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: how the Chinese government has conducted itself over the last 583 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: thirty or four years. For the most part, it's been 584 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: much more focused outward in terms of how its brand 585 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: is interpreted rather than catering to domestic constituencies. So that's 586 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: an interesting pivot as well. I want to ask you 587 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: both about infrastructure. Well, we have you here because we 588 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: have an actual bill. What a headline over the weekend? 589 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: Now that we see text here, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, 590 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: I believe our College draft TUCKS provides a good and 591 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: important jumping off point for what needs to be robust 592 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: and bipartisan process. Our full consideration of this bill must 593 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: not be choked off by any artificial timetable that our 594 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: Democratic College may have penciled out for political purposes. Rick Davis, 595 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: does McConnell play along with the bipartisan deal so his 596 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: members can take credit, or We're gonna see a lot 597 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: of amendments, a lot of votes this week. Yeah, I 598 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: think you're gonna see full tree of amendments. I think 599 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of votes. I think the process 600 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: is now geared to allow McConnell's UH team, the Republicans 601 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: in the Senate to have a shot at influencing it. 602 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: But but look, I mean this is twenty pages of work, right, 603 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: I mean, like you're gonna just pick the surface of it, 604 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: uh in the next two or three days before you 605 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: try to have a vote before they leave for summer recess. 606 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: So I think McConnell has already given to go ahead 607 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: for this bill. His his his vote for moving forward 608 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: on it signaled that if if, if not anything else, 609 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: and uh, I think you know you're you're you're gonna 610 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: see a little bit of sausage making. But this is 611 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: this is a bill that's going to see the lot 612 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: of day and uh, and they'll get out on time 613 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: and and it will be considered a big win for 614 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: bipartisan legislation. Rick Davis said it they get out on time. Roger, 615 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: I don't know if you agree, But is it worth 616 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: it for Democrats to allow some Republican amendments to work 617 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: their way into this legislation and really call it something bipartisan? Absolutely? Absolutely, Ultimately, 618 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: everyone no matter what party they're in, is invested in 619 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: some kind of competent narrative coming out of Washington, d C. 620 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: And what I think you're gonna see now is in 621 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: the kind of life cycle of legislation, this is gonna 622 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: now enter the Christmas tree phase, which is the fundamentals, 623 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: the building blocks are all there, and now everyone wants 624 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: to just put one or two ornaments on it before 625 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: it before it actually gets out the door. So these 626 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: se pages are probably gonna round up somewhere around thirty 627 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: five hundred as everyone kind of gets into the Christmas 628 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: tree phase. But fundamentally, I think this is good and 629 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: and it is not unrelated to their China conversation because 630 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: when you look what they're doing with their airports and 631 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: their ports, I mean they're building for massive amounts of 632 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: capacity that for example, right now, our reports can't even 633 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: accommodate some of the largest graders running around the world. 634 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: We've aged ourselves out of competition in a lot of ways. 635 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: So this is incredibly important, and I think both starts 636 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: should be able to go back home and sell it 637 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: very effectively. Rick, if you're a Republican lawmaker right now, 638 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: Republican senator, I guess to be exact, what do you 639 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: need to do this week before you go home? Meet 640 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: your constituents in town hall meetings. How do you take 641 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: credit for the good stuff and blame everyone else for 642 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: the rest? Well, you you've got to analyze exactly what's 643 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: in this bill that's gonna affect your home state or 644 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: your home district. I mean, in this case Senator's home state. Uh, 645 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta get back because you're gonna see 646 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: your constituents. They're gonna be some town halls, They're gonna 647 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: be some things to do at home. Everyone's getting something here, 648 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 1: they'll have to report. Everyone's gonna have something and so. 649 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: But people are gonna want to know what's in it 650 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: for me? Right? Is my bridge going to be affected? 651 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: Is my highway going to be improved? Is my broadband 652 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: going to be better? I mean you can imagine what 653 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: Susan has when she goes up to Maine where they 654 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: have very little broadband distribute. They're gonna want to know 655 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: are we getting it now or are we not getting 656 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: it now? And Roger, if you're a Democrat, how do 657 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: you position yourself for this next week? Because those Republicans 658 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: are going to go home and say, you know what, 659 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: just watch They're gonna spend three trillion dollars when they 660 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: get back to Washington and they're going to ruin the 661 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: economy with inflation, I would I would not address that 662 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: at all. I would echo Ricks points, which is too 663 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: speak with confidence and authority about exactly what's going to 664 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: be funded in the state. Put it in a kitchen 665 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: table context. I would frame some of my time spent 666 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: in state around around visits to those communities who can 667 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: really drive home to the kind of economic impact in 668 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: a very neighborhood, house by house kind of way. I 669 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: mean all the way down to going to a school 670 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: that's going to be you know, retrofitted, going to uh 671 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: an off ramp that's gonna be updated, going to a 672 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: bridge that's crumbling, etcetera, and just think it very real 673 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: for people. Rick Davis and Roger Fisk, two men who 674 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: have advised presidents and Senator is giving us their take 675 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: right here on Bloomberg Sound on a conversation you won't 676 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: hear anywhere else. Meet you back here tomorrow. We'll be 677 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: live from New York for the Tuesday edition. I'm Joe Matthew. 678 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg