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Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and today we're gonna talk about the defining

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Speaker 1: feud of West Coast hip hop dr dre versus Easy.

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Speaker 1: It's the battle but tore apart n w A one

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Speaker 1: of the most influential ratbacks in history, and sparked a

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Speaker 1: distract battle that only ended with easyes tragic AIDS related death.

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Speaker 1: But did it ever really end? As Dre goes to

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Speaker 1: sleep each night on his pillow stuffed with hundreds, I

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Speaker 1: wonder how he really feels about his ex bandmate. And

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Speaker 1: this is a fascinating feud to me because at its

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Speaker 1: height it really was one of the pettiest and most

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Speaker 1: vicious beefs and hip hop history. I mean, you had

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Speaker 1: Dre and Easy, these former bandmates who were just terrible

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Speaker 1: to each other in public, and then Easy died and

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Speaker 1: you could see how remorseful Drey was about all of

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Speaker 1: these terrible things that he had said about Easy, and

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Speaker 1: also how Drey over the years went on to try

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Speaker 1: to essentially rewrite history and make it seem almost like

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Speaker 1: there really wasn't ever a few at all, but there

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Speaker 1: was Jordan's and we're here to rehash it all. So

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Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get into this mess. The story

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Speaker 1: of benb really begins with Eric Wright a k A. Easy,

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Speaker 1: the so called godfather of gangster Wrap, and he very

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Speaker 1: famously grew up in the rough l a neighborhood of Compton,

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Speaker 1: and as one of his associates would later say, you

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Speaker 1: have to have a role play to stay safe in

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Speaker 1: those streets, and you were either a thug, a player,

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Speaker 1: an athlete, a gangster, or a dope man. Otherwise, according

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Speaker 1: to Easy associate, there was only one role left to you,

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Speaker 1: the role of victims. And Easy he was a small

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Speaker 1: guy and he had to keep himself safe, so we

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Speaker 1: chose dopeman for a time dealing drugs, but after his

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Speaker 1: cousin was shot and killed, he decided that he could

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Speaker 1: make a better living in the emerging l A hip

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Speaker 1: hop scene, which was really growing in popularity at that point.

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Speaker 1: And it was around this time in that that he

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Speaker 1: met Andre Young a k A. Dr Dre, who soon

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Speaker 1: became his best friend. Yeah, I think it's pretty well

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Speaker 1: documented at this point that like Easy was not really

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Speaker 1: a good rapper. I mean it's my understanding that he

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Speaker 1: pretty much had to be coached line by line in

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Speaker 1: the studio and ice Cube I think wrote almost all

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Speaker 1: of his lyrics, like on those classic and debut records.

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Speaker 1: But what Easy he had was this authenticity, you know,

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Speaker 1: of having a legitimate crime background. I also have to

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Speaker 1: say too that I think Easy he has like a

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Speaker 1: really cool sounding voice. Like there's something about Easy, like

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Speaker 1: when you hear him on a record, like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like there's any artifice there, Like he just sounds

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Speaker 1: like a dude from the main streets of Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: talking about his life, even like when the stuff he's

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Speaker 1: talking about is like pretty outlandish. Because I feel like

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Speaker 1: n w A, as their career progressed, like their records

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Speaker 1: kind of got pretty far out there, you know, from reality,

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Speaker 1: but like Easy, he kind of kept it grounded just

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Speaker 1: by force of his persona yeah, and just his path

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Speaker 1: like as Easy he would later point out on dis

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Speaker 1: tracks to Dr Dre. Dre came from the same neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: but he never had the same street cred that Easy

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Speaker 1: E did. Uh and Dre since hearing Grand Master Flash,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to be a DJ. He hung out at

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Speaker 1: a club called Eve after Dark, which is where many

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Speaker 1: of the West Coast mcs would would would rhyme and perform,

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Speaker 1: and it was here that he met Future in w

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Speaker 1: a member DJ Yella, and he became a DJ there

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Speaker 1: himself under the name Dr j at first after his

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Speaker 1: favorite basketball player, Julius Irving, and that gradually morphed into

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Speaker 1: Dr Dre the Master of Mixology, which sounds like someone

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Speaker 1: who would make like a mean old fashioned or something

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Speaker 1: about I guess master of mixology had a very different

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Speaker 1: meaning at that time. And this club had a small

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Speaker 1: four track studio in the back room, and that's where

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Speaker 1: Drey and his friends would make early demos. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: like when you look at Dre and Easy early on,

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Speaker 1: I mean they almost seemed like opposites of each other

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Speaker 1: in terms of like what their attributes were. Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: Easy had this authentic background for against rapper, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't really like that great in terms of being a rapper,

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Speaker 1: whereas Drey was really like, I think, already becoming a

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Speaker 1: musical mastermind, but he was also I mean, it's it

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Speaker 1: fair to say that he was a dork at this time,

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Speaker 1: Like he's kind of like a nerdy guy. Like you

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Speaker 1: can google Dr Dre and find pictures of him in

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Speaker 1: the group that he was in at this time called

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Speaker 1: the World Class Wrecking Crew. I don't have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen these photos, Like they're wearring, like these goldle mace suits.

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Speaker 1: They're playing like key tars. They're like worrying key tars

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Speaker 1: are very prevalent, and they're worrying makeup. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: not the image that we associate with Dr Dre or

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Speaker 1: n Way. It's pretty corny when you're looking at it now.

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Speaker 1: And of course it's like Electro a little Richard exactly.

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Speaker 1: I feel like easy he had a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with people seeing these photos eventually, because like he would eventually,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of bring these photos out as a

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Speaker 1: way to make fun of Dre, like when they were

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Speaker 1: deep into their feuds. But this was a pivotal moment

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Speaker 1: in Tray's career. Not only was he working with I

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Speaker 1: think Yellow was in World Class Wrecking Crew with him,

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Speaker 1: he also ended up hooking up with this really talented

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Speaker 1: rapper and writer named ice Cube when ice Cube was

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Speaker 1: only Sick Team, and then he worked on a song

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Speaker 1: together called Cabbage, and that was the beginning of their collaboration.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear the story about like how Dre Easy

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Speaker 1: kind of got together. Apparently like Dre had like a

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Speaker 1: parking ticket and he needed Easy to like help him

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Speaker 1: get out of it. And then just it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like to repay the favors, like all right, fine, I'll

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Speaker 1: help produce some songs for that little label that you're developing.

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Speaker 1: And and that little label that Easy was developing became

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Speaker 1: Ruthless Records, which was home to n w A and

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Speaker 1: became a really pivotal label in the hip hop scene,

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Speaker 1: especially for West Coast. When she said, oh, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean this really was the beginning I think of

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Speaker 1: like the West Coast having a real presence in hip hop.

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Speaker 1: I mean before then, you know, like in the early eighties,

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Speaker 1: it was very much based on the East. But as

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Speaker 1: we get to the end of the eighties and into

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Speaker 1: the nineties, the West Coast is going to really make

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Speaker 1: their presence felt. So one's Easy. He decides to get

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Speaker 1: out of drug dealing and go into music full time.

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Speaker 1: He took his profits and formed Ruthless Records, and to

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Speaker 1: help him run it he asked this guy, Jerry Heller,

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Speaker 1: and Jerry Heller is kind of like generally viewed as

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Speaker 1: the snake in this story. He's like a really polarizing figure,

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Speaker 1: usually cast as the villain, but also cited as a

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Speaker 1: really crucial figure in the band's development. And you know,

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Speaker 1: both of these are probably true. I think he's probably

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Speaker 1: mostly responsible for getting the bands to break outside of

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Speaker 1: the West Coast and certainly outside of their neighborhood, but

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Speaker 1: I think he also tore the band apart. When he

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Speaker 1: first started managing m w A, he was like something

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Speaker 1: like a forty year veteran of the music industry and

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Speaker 1: he represented all kinds of people. Van Morrison CSN y

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Speaker 1: otis reading the Who Black Sabbath, the list is like

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Speaker 1: really extensive and um. In later years, the story was

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Speaker 1: put around that Heller sought out in w A specifically

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Speaker 1: to like take advantage of these inexperienced man and try

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Speaker 1: to rip them off basically with industry contracts that he

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Speaker 1: knew a lot about and they didn't. But he would

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Speaker 1: say in his in his memoir that it was actually

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Speaker 1: Easy who sought him out, and not the other way around,

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Speaker 1: and that Easy actually paid somebody I think like seven

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars to make an introduction to him,

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Speaker 1: because he knew Jerry Heller had all these contacts into

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Speaker 1: the you know, the Hollywood music and just reseen and

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Speaker 1: he wanted to make this band big, and he was

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Speaker 1: he was first and foremost a businessman. I would read

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Speaker 1: later on that he was generally described Easy was as

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Speaker 1: like a businessman who happened to wrap and so seeking

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Speaker 1: out Heller was his way to bring the band to

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Speaker 1: the next level. So Hellard becomes n W as manager.

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Speaker 1: And look, if you listen to our show, you know

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Speaker 1: that like artists having managers that they don't trust. It's

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Speaker 1: got common story in music history, like n W as

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Speaker 1: far from the first group to have this. But I

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Speaker 1: think the reason why this ended up being such a

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Speaker 1: divisive moment in the group's history is that from Drey's perspective,

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Speaker 1: he really looked at Jerry Heller as being Easy's guy,

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Speaker 1: and if Jerry had any loyalties at all, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: to the group overall. It was always going to be

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Speaker 1: too easy and he really felt, and I think with justification,

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Speaker 1: like as the group's career progressed, that oftentimes, Drey was

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Speaker 1: getting the short end of the stick financially, while Easy

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Speaker 1: was making out really well with his good friend Jerry Heller.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Drey said later on that he felt

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Speaker 1: that Heller's strategy in the group was basically divide and conquer,

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Speaker 1: that he could split up the group's loyalties and in

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Speaker 1: that way he could weaken the other members and it

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Speaker 1: could just consolidate the power with Easy and Jerry. And

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Speaker 1: it seems like, in a way that's what is going

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Speaker 1: to happen as we move forward here. The first nw

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Speaker 1: A recordings were born out of a song called Boys

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Speaker 1: in the Hood that he tried to give to his

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Speaker 1: Ruthless record signing HBO, who turned it down. So Cube

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Speaker 1: dre E formed the first version of NWA to record

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Speaker 1: it themselves, and this was followed up by Panic Zone,

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Speaker 1: which was included in the seven compilation n w A

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Speaker 1: and the Posse, which is kind of like a compilation

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Speaker 1: party oriented jam record kind of thing. And n w

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Speaker 1: A was still in just developing stages and they're only

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Speaker 1: on I think like three of the tracks on the album.

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Speaker 1: The songs are Panic Zone, eight Ball, and Dopeman. But

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Speaker 1: it was the first collaboration with Arabian Prince, DJ, Yellow

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Speaker 1: Dr Dre and Ice Cube, and it was the first

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Speaker 1: time they were all together. The thing about that record though,

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Speaker 1: is that I feel like most people didn't hear about

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Speaker 1: that album until the net w A record, which of

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Speaker 1: course is Straight Out of Content, which drops in August.

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Speaker 1: This is really, I think, not the official first record,

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Speaker 1: but it's like the true first record for an n

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Speaker 1: w A. It's where they really become the band that

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Speaker 1: we know, like this dangerous, innovative hip hop group that

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Speaker 1: is going to just change really like the face of

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Speaker 1: music at that time. This is a really crucial summer

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Speaker 1: in hip hop history because you know, you have Straight

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Speaker 1: Out of Content that comes out in August, and then

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Speaker 1: two months before that you have Public Enemy putting out

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Speaker 1: what I think many people consider to be their classic record.

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Speaker 1: It takes a nation of millions to hold us back,

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Speaker 1: and it really is the peak of like this sort

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Speaker 1: of angry, provocative and very political type of hip hop

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Speaker 1: and w A. Of course, the signature song ends up

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Speaker 1: being Fucked the Police, which is I think still an

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Speaker 1: anthem for people. That's still probably the best known protest

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Speaker 1: song about police brutality that hip hop has ever spawned.

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Speaker 1: That song actually resulted in a letter sent to the

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Speaker 1: group from the FBI. I mean, what is the implication

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Speaker 1: of that letter. It was like basically like a warning

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Speaker 1: letter to them, right, I mean, like what were they

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Speaker 1: warning them about exact basically? I mean what I had

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Speaker 1: heard was that it was basically a rogue member of

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Speaker 1: the FBI. That it wasn't like a formal thing from

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Speaker 1: sent on high from them. It was just like one

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Speaker 1: member who happened to work for the FBI put it

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Speaker 1: on FBI stationary basically, and he was kind of warning

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Speaker 1: them to stop releasing these inflammatory songs because it was

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Speaker 1: basically like a notch below like excitement to riot. And

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Speaker 1: I think the song like they got in legal trouble

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Speaker 1: from performing in a lot of gigs too for the

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Speaker 1: same reason. It was almost like a Lenny Bruce kind

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Speaker 1: of thing where they there would be police in the

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Speaker 1: wings and stuff. Um, yeah, that was really strange, and

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Speaker 1: it's on display at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: and yeah it was. It was more like a low

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Speaker 1: level bureaucrat I think who actually sent that. But still

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Speaker 1: the impact was I mean, the press value of that

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Speaker 1: alone was pretty impressive. It was sent to their label,

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Speaker 1: and I think the band members themselves, well, I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, like, I mean, could you ask for better

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Speaker 1: publicity than giving a letter from the FBI. I wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if this rogue Agent was like a and

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Speaker 1: of the world class Wrecking Crew and he was just

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Speaker 1: upset at this like more sort of like you know,

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Speaker 1: they to turn. Yeah, it's like where the key tars Man,

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Speaker 1: Like I miss I missed the gold le may suits.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure about this new image. That's my theory

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Speaker 1: anyway about that rogue Agent. If like Public Enemy was

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Speaker 1: like the Clash, I feel like n w A was

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Speaker 1: like Guns and Roses at this time, you know, n

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Speaker 1: w AY they called their music reality rap. But I

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Speaker 1: do think that there was this kind of like over

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Speaker 1: the top element to like what they did, like where

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Speaker 1: they took the reality of like street violence in Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles and they just like blew it up to like

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Speaker 1: a grand scale. So like kids in the suburbs that

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Speaker 1: were like just totally attracted to n w A. They

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Speaker 1: loved the danger of this group. They were just sucked

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Speaker 1: into some of the reality and also like some of

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Speaker 1: the fantasy of those records. And if I can continue

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Speaker 1: this analogy, I would say that like easy E was

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Speaker 1: like the Axl Rose of n w A because he

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Speaker 1: was like the most colorful and the most charismatic and

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Speaker 1: like really like I think, kind of the most dangerous

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Speaker 1: one in the band, you know, like ice Cube. Again,

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Speaker 1: he was doing a lot of the writing, Dre was

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Speaker 1: handling the music. But I think Easy along with being

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Speaker 1: the businessman, he just felt the most like he could

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Speaker 1: have actually been one of the characters that they were

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Speaker 1: like talking about in their songs. He felt like he

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Speaker 1: was actually from the streets in a way that maybe

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Speaker 1: those other guys weren't. And I remember at the time

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Speaker 1: it seemed like Easy almost from like the jump of

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Speaker 1: that record was being set aside as a standalone star.

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Speaker 1: Like just three months after Straight Out of Comptent comes out,

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Speaker 1: he puts out his first solo record, and it's really

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Speaker 1: the only solo record that he completed during his lifetime.

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Speaker 1: That of course is Easy does it. That album goes

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Speaker 1: undergo double platinum, So that record is a big hit

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Speaker 1: on its own. So not only is Easy you know

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Speaker 1: a star in n w A, but he's already kind

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Speaker 1: of establishing his own career on the side now. As

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Speaker 1: we see so often on this show, relatively instant success

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Speaker 1: is almost never a good thing for a young band,

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Speaker 1: and the success of Straight Out of Compton underscored the

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Speaker 1: fact that the bandmates weren't getting the money that they

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Speaker 1: felt they'd been owned. And it's what we were talking earlier.

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Speaker 1: The contracts that Jerry Heller put together vastly favored E

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Speaker 1: as the head of the record label rather than the

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Speaker 1: rest of the group. And it was a pretty large

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Speaker 1: group too, So ice Cube in particular is the one

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Speaker 1: who really has a problem with the way that the

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Speaker 1: money is being arranged because he's the chief writer of

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Speaker 1: this huge album. Plus he wrote most of Easy Ease

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Speaker 1: debut album too, and he's still living at home with

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Speaker 1: his parents and doing the dishes and stuff. Meanwhile, Jerry

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Speaker 1: Heller and E are living in huge mansions and driving

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Speaker 1: luxury cars, and it looked awful lot like they were

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Speaker 1: all getting rich off of his work, which they were,

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Speaker 1: so by the middle of Ice Cube had received thirty

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Speaker 1: two thousand dollars in album royalties and a little bit

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Speaker 1: less than that. I'm out for performing on the n

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Speaker 1: w AS first National Tour, which is I mean laughable

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Speaker 1: to Pittans for you know, multi platinum record. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean he's basically being paid like what you would be

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Speaker 1: paid to like manage like a fast food restaurant, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, not the kind of money that you would

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Speaker 1: expect from the writer of like you know, a couple

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Speaker 1: of like platinum records. So, like ice Cube actually ends

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Speaker 1: up leaving the group pretty early on, and initially, like

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Speaker 1: Dre is kind of lashing out a Cube about this,

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Speaker 1: he has loyalty to n w A. But then Drey

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Speaker 1: starts to realize that he also is not making the

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Speaker 1: kind of money that he should be making because along

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Speaker 1: with you know, producing a way, he's also like working

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Speaker 1: on like the Easy record, He's like producing like the

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Speaker 1: d O C. Michelle A, like all these hit records

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Speaker 1: and not making a lot of money. Like Jerry Holler

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Speaker 1: bizorted mission like in an article of that Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: did on this, he said that like Drey only made

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Speaker 1: like eighty six thousand dollars from all of the production

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Speaker 1: work that he was doing for Ruthless Records. And the

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Speaker 1: thing here, I mean it's interesting because like Drey, of

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Speaker 1: course he would accuse Jerry Heller of ripping him off.

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Speaker 1: But it's like, if you sign a bad deal, are

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Speaker 1: you being ripped off? Or have you just not taking

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Speaker 1: care of your own business. I mean, that seems like

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Speaker 1: the issue here, and it it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: hazy distinction to make because obviously, when musicians first get

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Speaker 1: into the business, many times they don't know much about

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Speaker 1: contracts or like how to negotiate like the best deals

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Speaker 1: for themselves. And you know, people like Jerry Howard take

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Speaker 1: advantage of that. They heavily tilt the scales so that

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Speaker 1: they make way more money than the artists who was

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Speaker 1: actually doing the work. And I think, again from Drey's perspective,

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Speaker 1: he was angry at Jerry Heller about this, but I

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Speaker 1: think he also felt betrayed by Easy because he felt

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Speaker 1: that Easy was essentially working in concert with with Jerry Howard.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, you're my friend, you're my bandmate, and

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Speaker 1: yet you consciously allowed this to happen. You knew that

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Speaker 1: he was going to basically screw me over with this contract,

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Speaker 1: and you just let him do it because ultimately you

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Speaker 1: knew that it was the best thing for your bottom

335
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Speaker 1: line exactly. I mean, at the end of the day,

336
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Speaker 1: he blamed e for bringing this outsider into their myths,

337
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Speaker 1: into their neighborhood. Really, and it's interesting that, you know,

338
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Speaker 1: for all of the frustration that ice Cube and Dre felt,

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Speaker 1: they never actually sued Heller for financial malfeasance, which means,

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Speaker 1: like he said, he wasn't legally doing anything wrong. He

341
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Speaker 1: just put a deal together of heavily favorite him and

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Speaker 1: Dre didn't know any better at this time, and and

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Speaker 1: his associates at this time would say this too, like

344
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Speaker 1: he really didn't read contracts. It really wasn't you know,

345
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Speaker 1: his thing. He was more of a creative and so,

346
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Speaker 1: and that came back to haunt him in this case.

347
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Speaker 1: And ice Cube ended up leaving the group right after

348
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Speaker 1: Straight out of Compton went global, and he was the

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Speaker 1: biggest star in the band at this time, and he

350
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Speaker 1: was the best position to go solo. And his first album,

351
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Speaker 1: America's Most Wanted, went to number one in just two weeks.

352
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Speaker 1: And he didn't mention the bad blood in nw A

353
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Speaker 1: directly in this album. I think it's important to note,

354
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: but that would that would happen later. Yeah, it's interesting

355
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Speaker 1: with Cube because there's this long gestation process that takes

356
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Speaker 1: place between him in n W A like after he left,

357
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Speaker 1: like where you know we're going to see this at

358
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Speaker 1: n w A is going to be much more aggressive

359
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Speaker 1: about attacking Cube, and Cube is like really not going

360
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Speaker 1: to respond for a long time until he like really responds,

361
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Speaker 1: like in the most vicious way possible. But we're getting

362
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Speaker 1: a little out of ourselves with that. I just want

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Speaker 1: to say for now, like ice Cube is like one

364
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Speaker 1: of my favorite rappers of all time, especially of this era.

365
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Speaker 1: I mean, he's got a great voice, he's a great writer,

366
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Speaker 1: and he was like a genuinely dangerous character, like I

367
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Speaker 1: don't know, like if you listen to albums like Death

368
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Speaker 1: Certificate or The Predator or America's Most Wanted, I mean

369
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Speaker 1: he could be like a really menacing presence on his

370
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Speaker 1: records and in his music videos and it was just riveting.

371
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Speaker 1: And I feel like him leading n w A, even

372
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Speaker 1: though you still had dre and easy in that group,

373
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Speaker 1: it really was like a death blow to that group artistically,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think they were ever as good without

375
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Speaker 1: him as they were with him in the band. Oh no,

376
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Speaker 1: and I'm not on the mic and not with that

377
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: was writing too, especially so n w A do not

378
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Speaker 1: afford Cube the same courtesy. The next disc they put

379
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Speaker 1: out as an EP, hundred Miles and Running. The title

380
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,479
Speaker 1: track includes a disk track of ice Cube we started

381
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Speaker 1: with five, but yo one couldn't take it, so now

382
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Speaker 1: it's four because the fifth couldn't make it, and the

383
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Speaker 1: video for the song depicted the remaining members of n

384
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Speaker 1: w A together in a jail cell. On ice Cube

385
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Speaker 1: look Alike is released, which is uh not particular really subtle.

386
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 1: There's another track on the album that refers to him

387
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Speaker 1: as Benedict Arnold, Uh, you know, the famous trader of

388
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Speaker 1: the revolutionary era. But really Cube gets his revenge on

389
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: kill it will. Well not really though, because like I

390
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 1: feel like he's still like fairly passive aggressive on this record,

391
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Speaker 1: like he's like a little more deliberate. Like there's that

392
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Speaker 1: skit at the end of the record called I Gotta

393
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,919
Speaker 1: Say What Up where ice Cube is doing this like

394
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Speaker 1: fake radio interview where he's talking about some of the

395
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Speaker 1: great like rap groups of the era, like Public Enemy,

396
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Speaker 1: Ghetto Boys, people like that, and then there's a question

397
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Speaker 1: where they say, since you went solo, what's up with

398
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Speaker 1: the rest of your crew? And then he hangs up,

399
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 1: So like the application being that like you know, someone's

400
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 1: asking about n w A and he's not even gonna

401
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,400
Speaker 1: answer the question, so like not really going after them

402
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: still at this point, especially considering like the direct shots

403
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 1: that n w A was taking at him at the time,

404
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 1: he was still like playing it pretty cool and maybe

405
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: continue to prod him on their second full length album,

406
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Speaker 1: and it really Animals and he gets even more clear.

407
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 1: I mean, there's dragatory references to Ice Cube found in

408
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Speaker 1: several songs, as the interlude a message to be a

409
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 1: Benedict Arnold echoes the beginning of Ice Cube's song turn

410
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 1: Off the Radio from America's Most Wanted, and he's addressed

411
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Speaker 1: by name in this same track, and then the band

412
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Speaker 1: members just throw a torrent of abuse adam in their

413
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 1: lyrics and say when we see your as, we're gonna

414
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 1: cut your hair off and fuck you with a broomstick

415
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: by m c wren. So yeah, yeah, that's that's again

416
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: not terribly subtle. So this is really when Cube decides

417
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: to go nuclear. Yeah, he's gonna go nuclear here. Before

418
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 1: we get to that, though, I just want to say,

419
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: like I realized that I learned about Benedict Arnold from

420
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Speaker 1: listening to rap records in like the late eighties are

421
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: early nineties, because like all these Benedict Arnold references like

422
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: these on a records, I was like, you know, I

423
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 1: would have had no idea who that was if like

424
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: this historical figure was not being brought up like on

425
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Speaker 1: these albums. I just love the fact that like they

426
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: brought Bennett Arnold back, like gave him some cultural relevance,

427
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, at that time, exactly liking him to ice Cube,

428
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 1: So you can only call a man Benedict Arnold so

429
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 1: many times before he finally lashes out, and finally ice Cube,

430
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, we get to the album Death Certificate and

431
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Speaker 1: he unleashes the song no Vaseline, which is one of

432
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 1: the most notorious disc tracks ever, and I feel like

433
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 1: ice Cube must have just been like seething for like

434
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: two or three years. You know, He's taking all this

435
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: crap from his former bandmates, the people that he felt

436
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: like had screwed him over, especially easy and playing it

437
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: relatively cool, and finally he's like, I've had enough. I'm

438
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: gonna unleash a torrent of just again devastating blows. And look,

439
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 1: I can't quote too many of the lyrics of this

440
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 1: song because well, for one thing, there's like a fair

441
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 1: amount of anti semitism and homophobia in this song. I

442
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: hate to say, it's like it hasn't really aged well

443
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: in that regard, although even at the time a lot

444
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: of people criticize the song for those elements of it.

445
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: But the gist of no Vassoline essentially is that the

446
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: guys in w A are soft, They look like Bozo's,

447
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: they're basically stooges for Jerry Heller, ice Cube believes that

448
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 1: he's a man with the guts, you know, to go

449
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: out on his own to make his own money, while

450
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: the guys in n w A are you know, still

451
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: stuck under the thumb of this crooked manager. He accuses

452
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: them of living in an all white neighborhood, basically just

453
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 1: calling them a bunch of phonies, and the overall ideas

454
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: that these guys are getting screwed with no Vasoline and

455
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: you can kind of figure out what that means. But yeah,

456
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: this is like just a devastating disk track. I'm it's

457
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 1: hard for me to think of many songs that like

458
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: are like meaner than this about like like on our show,

459
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, we've had some like definitely mean moments and songs.

460
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: You know, artists talking about other artists saying disparaging things,

461
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: but like no, Vassoline just takes that to like another

462
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: level and sort of adding salt to in the b

463
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: way He's wounds. To me, at this point, they're almost

464
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: a spent force. They're basically finished because in the early

465
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: nineties Dr Dre become tight with with n W as

466
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: bodyguard and a one time l a RAMS player called

467
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: Sugar Knight, and Night was trying to break into the

468
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: music industry in a bigger way, and he started a

469
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: music publishing firm, and he got his first big profit,

470
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: according to music legend, by having Vanilla Ice sign over

471
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: royalties from his hit song Ice Ice Baby, by persuading

472
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: Ice that he used material from Sugar's own client, a

473
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: guy by the name of Mario Johnson, and allegedly he

474
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: persuaded Vanilla Ice to sign these rights over by threatening

475
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: to drop him off the fifteenth floor of his hotel.

476
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: There are several stories that my favorite involves Sugar actually

477
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: dangling him over the balcony by his ankles. I don't

478
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: know if that's true. I love that I've only seen

479
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: that in movies, Like I mean, I didn't know people

480
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: actually did that in real life, like dangling people off

481
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: a balcony. I want that to be true. I'm gonna

482
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: pretend that it's true, even though I feel like there's

483
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: probably an element of bullshit to that. Yeah, I mean,

484
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: this is just one of sugar knights many questionable but

485
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 1: very effective business practices. And he becomes close to Dr

486
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: Dre through n W a associate the DC around this period,

487
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: and he's hearing Drey's complaints about Easy and Jerry Heller,

488
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: and Shook says, well, you know, I'll take a look

489
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: at the ruthless records books for you, and he convinces

490
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 1: Drey that he is indeed getting ripped off, and furthermore,

491
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: he convinces Dre to go into business with him. So

492
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: Dre goes to Easy gives him an ultimatum, either Jerry

493
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: Heller goes or I go an Easy picked Jerry and

494
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: all right hand, we'll be right back with more rivals.

495
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: So at this point it's Sugar Knight's job to get

496
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: Dre out of his contract. And of course Easy isn't

497
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: gonna let Dre leave because Dre is a very valuable

498
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: commodity to him. So Shugar is gonna go I guess

499
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: the vanilla ice route of dangling people out of balconies,

500
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: but really he's gonna go the extra mile here in

501
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: his dealings with Easy, basically there's this incident like where

502
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: dre invited Easy to a studio to have a meeting,

503
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: presumably to talk about business. So Easy shows up and

504
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: turns out that Drey is not there. Guess who is there?

505
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: Sugar Knight and like a gang of goons holding baseball

506
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: bats and pipes. Now, I don't know about you, Jordan's,

507
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: but like I'm kind of a scaredy cat. I think

508
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: you could say if I walked into a room and

509
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: I saw a Sugar Knight and a bunch of guys

510
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: holding baseball bats and pipes anything, Yeah, I think I

511
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: would like fill a diaper. Uh. You know, I would

512
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: be very upset over that, and I think I would

513
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: probably give him whatever he wanted at that moment. But

514
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: like Easy, to his credit, did not give in. He

515
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: could see that Shug was just trying to intimidate him,

516
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: so he's like, no, I'm not gonna let Dre go.

517
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: So then Shug says, and this is crazy. He says

518
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: that he has kidnapped Jerry Heller and he has them

519
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: like tied up in a van somewhere, which, like, I

520
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: don't think that was true, right, like he did. It's

521
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: very easily disapprovable. Yeah, right, So again Easy he's like, no,

522
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let Drey out of his contract. Again

523
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: he we could tell that Shug was lying about that.

524
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: Then Shug says, I know where your mom stays, and

525
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: he actually writes down Easy's mom's address on a piece

526
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: of paper and hands it to him. The lowest blow

527
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: that you can have, really, I mean, I just can't believe.

528
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: That seems like a way a place you would not go,

529
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: just just you know, just as your personal code of

530
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: conduct that seems like a line you do not cross.

531
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: And to the idea that like dre implicitly authorized, this

532
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: just adds itself to injury. I mean, this is your

533
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: friend who has you know, employed this fully essentially into

534
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: threatening your mom over a business deal. I mean, this

535
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: is like really really bad stuff. But you know, this

536
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: is the thing that convinces Easy to finally let Drey

537
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: out of his contract. So that is how he was

538
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: able to leave ruthless records. Because this guy shook Knight

539
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: essentially threatened Easy's mother, and there was a story later

540
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: on Jerry Howard told the story that like Easy actually

541
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: wanted to kill Shook Knight, and like Jerry Hellard talked

542
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: him out of it. And then Heller said that he

543
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: regretted that he talked Easy out of killing Sugar Knight.

544
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: You know, like that's how bad this gout. I mean,

545
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: it was pretty bad, but it could have actually been

546
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: much worse. So this really ugly incident is a genesis

547
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: of death Row Records. It would eventually sign Dre, Snoop Dogg, Tupac.

548
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: They become, you know, their aim at the beginning was

549
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: to become the motown of the nineties, and they pretty

550
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: much got there. And in August and nine did any

551
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: one Easy file a state complaint against Drey and death

552
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: Row Records and Suge Knight, basically alleging that all these

553
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: defendants had used duress and menace to get Easy to

554
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: avoid Drey's contract and you know, basically said you can't

555
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: get out of a contract by like threatening my mom

556
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: and threatening me with a baseball bat. The suit was dismissed,

557
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: but the terms of the departure meant that Easy would

558
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: get would continue to profit off of Dr Dre maintained

559
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: the percentage of his royalties, which meant those months of

560
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: Dr Dre hated him, he still owned him to a

561
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: certain extent, and making things even worse the lawsuit Torpedo

562
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Death rows initial plan of being acquired by Sony, they

563
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: ended up being acquired by Interscope through Warner Brother Records instead.

564
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: So even though he lost the battle of keeping Dr

565
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: Dred his label, he scored a really valuable victory of

566
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: still making money off of his former friends. It's interesting

567
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: to me that at this point you're really going to

568
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: start to see the scales tip towards Dre's side, and

569
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: the way that he's going to get one over on

570
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: Easy is by using his music, not street tactics. Because

571
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: he puts out this album called The Chronic, which is

572
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: of course one of the biggest rap records ever made,

573
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: one of the great albums of the nineteen nineties. And

574
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, I remember when that album came out, like

575
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: you could not go anywhere, whether it was like a

576
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: fast food restaurant or the swimming pool or the grocery

577
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: store or on television without hearing songs from that album.

578
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: For like the Better part of like two Years, and

579
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: I feel like that album went a long way toward

580
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: taking this beef between Dre and Easy, which was something

581
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: that you know, like, if you were into hip hop

582
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 1: you knew about. If you read like rap magazines, you

583
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: were on top of bit But if you were just

584
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: like a normal music fan, you know, someone in the

585
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: middle of the country who wasn't all that well versed

586
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: in this stuff, you didn't really hear about it until

587
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: the Chronic came out, And especially the songs Funk with

588
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: drey Day and Everybody Celebrating and Bitches Ain't Ship. Like

589
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: those two songs I feel like defined the conflict between

590
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: these guys, and of course it painted it in a

591
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: way that was like pro Dre and very anti Easy,

592
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: and he ended up looking terrible like from this album,

593
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: and I think it really kind of defined how people

594
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: looked at it like from then on. Yeah, I mean,

595
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: especially Funk with dred Day. For me, I always thought

596
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: that song was like the final scene in The Godfather

597
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: for Dre. It's it's the moment when he takes out

598
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: all of his major enemies. He fired shots at the

599
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: East Coast rapper Tim Dog, Uncle Luke of two Live Crew,

600
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: Ice Cube, and of course Easy and the extremely unpc

601
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: lyrics mostly involved attacking E with various homosexual slurs and accusations. Uh,

602
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: used to be my homie, used to be my ace.

603
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: Now I want to slap the taste out your mouth,

604
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: make you bow down to the road, throw fucking me

605
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: now I'm sucking you little home. It's just a small

606
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: selection of of the the extremely brutal lyrics. And you know,

607
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: the song is like bad enough, but I feel like

608
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 1: the video like really took it to another level. Like

609
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this video, but like

610
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: there's this character named Sleazy E who like has like

611
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: the Jerry Ko hair, and he has like the sunglasses

612
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: on very clearly supposed to be easy. And there's also

613
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: like a manager in there who, like, I mean, I

614
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: don't know how to say this delicately, he's basically like

615
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: a caricature of like a Jewish manager. Like it's borders

616
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: on anti Semitism, like the depiction of this manager in

617
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: the video, And the idea is just to depict Sleazy

618
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: Z as this like clown who will do anything that

619
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: his manager wants him to do. And the idea is

620
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: to basically just make Easy look like a buffoon, you know,

621
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: and like by the end of the video, he's like

622
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: living under an overpass carrying a sign that says will

623
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: wrap for food. You know, just like a pathetic figure

624
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: in this video. And again I think you know people,

625
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, if you love in w A. The big

626
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: thing about Easy was that he was like this cool,

627
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: tough guy and you watched this video and like Dre

628
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: has totally flipped the script on him to make him

629
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: look weak and pathetic and you know, like a guy

630
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: who was on his way out. Essentially, he just like

631
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: robbed Easy of like all the coolness and the power

632
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: that he had in w way and did it on

633
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: like a grand scale. Like again, this is a song

634
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: on like one of the biggest records of the era,

635
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: and this music video was like on all the time.

636
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean it was, you know, one of those videos

637
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: in the only nineties that you like literally saw every

638
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes on MTV. And I think this song ended

639
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: up being like a top ten hit like on the

640
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: pop charts. So again, it wasn't just something that like

641
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: if you were seriously into hip hop that you cared about.

642
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: This was something that like pop fans now knew about

643
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: but they had a very kind of skewed perspective on it.

644
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: It was about Dre making Easy look terrible, and I

645
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: think for a lot of people, well, they didn't really

646
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: go beyond that, like that's all they really knew about it,

647
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: And that was devastating for Easy, and Drey wasn't even done.

648
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: This double barrel assault continues with bitches ain't ship and

649
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: that he bitch in the title for Dre refers to Easy,

650
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: or he refers to him by his birth name in

651
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: the song directly by Eric Wright, which is again just

652
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: kind of strips him of any kind of persona that

653
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: Easy he had made for himself. He's just completely laid

654
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: bare with his birth name. I thought that was a

655
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: really telling choice. Uh, And it was a brief rundown

656
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: of their friendship history. And he hurls a number of

657
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: other homophobic slurs at him, and Uh again goes back

658
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: to basically making him sound like a stooge for Jerry Heller,

659
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: and he mentions the Ruthless Records lawsuits, saying and now

660
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: he's suing because the ship he's doing ain't ship. Bitches

661
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: can't hang with the street found herself short, he always

662
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: refers to himself by the female pronoun in the song

663
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: now She's taking Me to Court, so yes, and that

664
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: is what another hit song from the album too So again,

665
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: as he said, completely devastating for easy reputation, both musically

666
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: and just his repute patian as you know, a guy

667
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: from the streets. Now, of course, when Easy hears this stuff,

668
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: he's not happy. And you can see how unhappy he

669
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: is with his next release, which is an EP called

670
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: It's on Dr Dreem Killer, And this album is basically

671
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: just about how much he hates Dr Dre and how

672
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: he wants to kill Dr Dre. Like, there's eight songs

673
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: on this record, five of them are about Dre. The

674
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: song that stands out to me is the song real

675
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: Motherfucking Geez, which, like, in a way, I kind of

676
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: like this song. It's like a pretty good parody of

677
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: like the g Funk era sound of like the chronic

678
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: Like you could tell that he's basically just like trying

679
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: to like make fun of that sound and like in

680
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: the aesthetic of that record, and you know, the core

681
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: message of that song basically again is that Dr Dre

682
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: is a phony. You know, Easy is saying I'm the

683
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: real gangster and Dre is this like wimpy guy and

684
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: all he does is talk. And in the music video

685
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: for the song, this is where he dug out those

686
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: photos we were talking about before, like the world Class

687
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Wrecking Crew where you know rais where in the again

688
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: the gold may suit, he has the makeup on, he's

689
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: playing a key tar. The idea is to make him

690
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: look foolish essentially in this video. The problem for Easy

691
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: is that the chronic was so big and Dre at

692
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: this time really was like a superstar, probably the most

693
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 1: famous rapper on the planet really at this point, and

694
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 1: like no one really cared about, you know, showing embarrassing

695
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: photos of Dre, Like I think in reality, like you know,

696
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: people love that record because the music was really good.

697
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: They didn't really, I think, believe that like Drey was

698
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: actually like a criminal or something. So to show him

699
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: in this embarrassing light, I think people ultimately shrugged their

700
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: shoulders because they're like, well, okay, fine, he looked like

701
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: that back then, but his record is still really great,

702
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: so we're gonna go with Dre. And I mean I

703
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: feel like that EP still like did like fairly well,

704
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: like sold like a couple hundred thousand copies in its

705
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: first week, which would have been fine on its own,

706
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: but it just like paled in comparison to what Drey

707
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: did on the Chronic And really, at the end of

708
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: the day, like the record sales were like the most

709
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: devastating message of all Drake could just like basically point

710
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: and say scoreboard, you know, at the end of the day,

711
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: and show that he had won, you know, this part

712
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: of the battle. Yeah, I think the EP made him

713
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: look hetty. I mean, you make a really great comparison

714
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: in your book about how easy he was basically like

715
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: Dave Mustaine in the Metallica Mega Death feud, or it's

716
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: just like you're trying way too hard, Like how about

717
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: you make a good record and like Drey's doing and

718
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: not make you know, two thirds of it be about

719
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: how much you hate this dude. And I think that

720
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: that was really at the core of Easy Eves, that

721
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: his reputation as a musician was not great at this period.

722
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean, he needed the lyrical wit of ice Cube,

723
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: and he needed Drey's beats, and you know, he wasn't

724
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: really challenging himself. He wasn't teaming up with producers that

725
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: would push him. A lot of his records in this

726
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: era were sounding like stuff that n w A had

727
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: done four or five years earlier. And also his reputation

728
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: just in the hip hop community wasn't good because apparently

729
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: he was at this point deemed very difficult to work with,

730
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: and he alienated himself from many of his friends and

731
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: former friends and artists. Even his longtime friend mc ran

732
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: voiced his dislike for Easy n He said he had

733
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: a big head and was a want to be mega

734
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: star and even suggested the w A should reunite without Easy.

735
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: So really, at this point, his reputation is kind of

736
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: in the toilet. I think there was an article in

737
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: Vibe magazine that kind of said, like, you know, is

738
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,959
Speaker 1: there anyone lower in the hip hop community right now

739
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: than Easy? And the inference was no. And just the

740
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: fact that he had released this EP that was just

741
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: filled with uh, just this obsession with Dr Dre just

742
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: kind of made him seem weak. You know, It's interesting

743
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: to contemplate, like what would have happened if this rivalry

744
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: would have taken its course throughout the decade, Like if

745
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: Eazy E would have lived and if there would have

746
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: still been a back and forth or if him and

747
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: Dre would have found a way to reconcile. Of course,

748
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: we don't know the answer to that, because Easy ended

749
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: up getting checked into the hospital in early he had

750
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: a really bad cough and he was pretty quickly after

751
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: that diagnosed as having AIDS and really, like I think

752
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: it was like a month later that he passed away.

753
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: This was like an incredibly like just rapid turn of

754
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: events for Easy, and he ended up, you know, dying

755
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: at the age of thirty, which is just like an

756
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: incredibly sad story, you know, just to pass away at

757
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: that age, just incredibly tragic. What emerges out of Easy's

758
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: death is this story about basically Drey and Easy having

759
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: this like deathbed reconciliation. And this is a story that

760
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: Dre himself has told on numerous occasions, though the details

761
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: I kept change depending on when he's telling it. Like,

762
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: you know, there's one interview where he actually says that

763
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: like him and Easy had a phone conversation like two

764
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: weeks before he went into the hospital where they you know,

765
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: talked about old times and even discussed the possibility of

766
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: like reuniting and w A. And then there's like another

767
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: story that like, you know that they saw each other

768
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: in the hospital and they were able to have this

769
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: moment where you know, they buried the hatchet and made

770
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: peace before Easy passed. But also, I mean, it seems

771
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: like Easy was in a coma for like most of

772
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: the time that he was in the hospital, and it

773
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: appears that like when Dre was there, that like Easy

774
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been conscious. That it just reminds me of

775
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: like another episode we did about the Band where you

776
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: had Robbie Robertson and Leave on Helm, a very similar

777
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: situation where you have these two guys who had a

778
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: bitter feud going on for years and then one of

779
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: them gets sick in this case, Leave on Helm and

780
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: then Robbie Robertson goes to the hospital and according to Robbie,

781
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: they have this reconciliation. But was it really a reconciliation

782
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: if the other guy isn't conscious, Like that's the mystery

783
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: of this. Like, I don't know if we'll ever quite

784
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: know the truth of this, because in a way, you know,

785
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a little too convenient for Dre

786
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: to like have this story that like they somehow patched

787
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: it up, because I feel there's like evidence of the

788
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: contrary that like Easy was still pretty mad at Dre,

789
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: like at the end of his life. Yeah, I mean

790
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: one of the big points of this is the posthumous

791
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: album Straight Off the Streets of Motherfucking Compton, And there

792
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: are several songs on the album that takes shots to

793
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: death row Old school Ship and would You Do And

794
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: the music video for just to Let You Know features

795
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: a rapper named Eric Easy's real name, beating with another

796
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: rapper who believes that Eric ripped him off and uh,

797
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: and then this other rapper gets shot, so the other

798
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: rapper clearly being Dr Dre. It kind of seems like

799
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: if they had reconciled at least Easy, he's a state,

800
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: would have maybe gone a little easier on the Death

801
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: Road Team. I don't know, Yeah, that seems questionable to me.

802
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: It's weird. It's definitely weird. Dre definitely forgave him. I

803
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: think it remains to be seen whether or not E

804
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: actually forgave Dre. And it's worth noting over the years,

805
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: many people in Easy Ease circle have come forward to

806
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: say that they don't believe his death was accidental. Jerry

807
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: Hellers said as much. He said he thinks that it

808
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: was foul play. One of Easy Ease protegees B G.

809
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: Knockout had a song in My Prime Inleven which he

810
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: wraps the way my big homie went down. He didn't

811
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: deserve it to say he died of AIDS, but Easy

812
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: was cold murdered. Another Easy Ease Ruthless Records mentees M. C.

813
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Frau believes he was given tainted acupuncture needles, which is

814
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: something I've never heard of. But the general consensus is

815
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: that people feel that Sugar Knight, that human lightning rod

816
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: for murder conspiracies, was involved, and Sugar didn't really help

817
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: his case when he gave an appearance after getting out

818
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 1: of jail in two thousand three on Jimmy Kimmel Live.

819
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: Have you seen this? Yeah, I mean he goes on

820
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: and like, by the way, like this conspiracy theory just

821
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: seems ridiculous. Like he's being shot with HIV with like

822
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: a tainted it's pretty hypodermic needle. It doesn't make any sense.

823
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: But then you have Sugar Knight going on Jimmy Kimmel

824
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: Live and like basically confirming it. I mean he says

825
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: they have a new thing out they get blood from

826
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: somebody with AIDS and they shoot you with it. That's

827
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: a slow death, the easy thing, you know what I mean?

828
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: God Like, what a good dude, by the way, what

829
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: what what? What a gentleman? I mean, Look, I I'm

830
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: inclined to believe that he was trolling with that. I

831
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: don't really think that he killed Easy, um, And if

832
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: he had, I don't think he would have like joked

833
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: about it on Jimmy Kimmel on Jimmy Kimmel that the

834
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: smartest thing to do if that were actually true. I

835
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: think what is definitely beyond doubt here is that I

836
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: think for Dre it became very important after Easy he died,

837
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 1: that he essentially changed the narrative of their relationship because again,

838
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: you had this moment in the early nineties where Drey

839
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: and Easy were really defined by this bitter public conflict

840
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: that they had, and again really by those songs on

841
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: the Chronic I really think that those songs did more

842
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: than anything to sort of like fix the public's perception

843
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: of like what was going on between these two guys.

844
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: So just as Dre defined Easy in his records, he

845
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: also tried to kind of redefine Easy on his subsequent

846
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: records and music videos, like there's that video for I

847
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: Need a Doctor from eleven where he's like it shows

848
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: Dr Dre like standing at Easy's grave and like the

849
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: idea basically of the videos that like Easy Ease, Like

850
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: this Saint and Dr Dre has just been struggling for

851
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: so many years with grief over Easy Ease death, and look,

852
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: I don't want to call into question his grief. I'm

853
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: sure that he felt a lot of different emotions about

854
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: Easy after he died, and losing a friend, especially at

855
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: such a young age, must have been difficult. But maybe

856
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: this is just the cynic in me. There did seem

857
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: to be sort of a self serving aspect to this,

858
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: where by using this specter of Easy e that Drey

859
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: in some way was also making himself look noble in

860
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: this music video, which, by the way, that music video

861
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: is ridiculous, Like that is such a silly music video,

862
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: and like that song also, I think it's like pretty trash.

863
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just seemed almost like he was using

864
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,959
Speaker 1: Easy as like a convenient symbol to express his own

865
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: sort of like angst and milk that for dramatic effect

866
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: in this video. I still feel weird about the m

867
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: W A film straight out of Compton. I know you

868
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: and I feel differently about this. I feel like it

869
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: was almost another way that Drey tried to rewrite the narrative,

870
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: because I thought the Easy was portrayed as likable but

871
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: kind of naive, and in the film Dre kind of

872
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: he's the one motivating a lot of choices. I mean,

873
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: Dre gives him the idea to for Ruthless Records in

874
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: the movie, and the record boys in the hood themselves.

875
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Everything in the movie to me seems

876
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: like it was Drey's idea, and I think in real

877
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: life that wasn't true. I mean, Easy was the one

878
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 1: driving the ship, So I don't know. It's hard because

879
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: Drey and Q both produced straight out of Compton, and

880
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: Easy isn't there to tell his sides, you know. In

881
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 1: a way, I thought it was kind of their way

882
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: of rewriting the narrative a bit. Yeah. I mean again,

883
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: this idea of Drey, and I guess in this instance

884
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,959
Speaker 1: Cube being self serving. I definitely think there's an issue there.

885
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: Although I think my issue with the movie in terms

886
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: of the relationship with Easy is just like how I

887
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: think it kind of whitewashes again the genuine conflict that

888
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: was going on, because I think in the movie, yeah,

889
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: Drey has perceived as the protagonist, and maybe that can

890
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: be perceived as like a slight on Easy, But again

891
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: I think Easy for the most part is like a

892
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: pretty likable guy in the film. And it also, I

893
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: think really shows the friendship that existed between these guys

894
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: and really puts the emphasis on that, and you don't

895
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: really see all the negative stuff that happened. And you know, again,

896
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: is that a self serving whitewash or is it someone

897
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: who is trying to put his past behind him and

898
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: focus on the good things and not try to sort

899
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: of exacerbate and and the conflicts and picking out old scars.

900
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: You know, I mean it's probably a little bit of both.

901
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: And while you know, the music historian and me the

902
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: lover of feuds, you know, doesn't like it when people

903
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: whitewash the real conflicts that happened. I can understand how,

904
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, decades after the fact, you just want to

905
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: remember your friend in a positive way and not well

906
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: on all that old negativity. We're gonna take a quick

907
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: break to get a word from our sponsor before we

908
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: get two more rivals. All right, we've reached a part

909
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: of our episode where we give the pro side of

910
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: each part of the rivalry. Will do the pro Doctor

911
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: Dre side first? I mean, look, Dr Dre, he needs

912
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: no introduction. He is one of the great hip hop

913
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: producers of all time, maybe the greatest. He was the

914
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: sonic architect of those class and w A records, and

915
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: of course he's the guy behind the Chronic, one of

916
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: the great albums of the nineteen nineties. Also, you know,

917
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: I think he was right on some level to be

918
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: mad at Easy for how he was unfairly compensated early on,

919
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: though I think in the end he definitely got his

920
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: revenge from a pr standpoint. You know, again, I think

921
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: that like when we think about this revelry, first and foremost,

922
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: we think of the Funk with Dre da video. I mean,

923
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: to me, that is like the defining document of what

924
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: this revelry was. Even though it's incredibly unfair to Easy.

925
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: Dre had the loudest microphone, so he got to write

926
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: history and basically make his friend look like up a phone,

927
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: even though again in retrospect, after Easy he died, he

928
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: tried to rewrite that history I mean, like you said,

929
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: Dr Dre pretty much invented the West Coast hip hop

930
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: sound genius level producer who excels at making beats through

931
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: live instrumentation, which allows for greater musical flexibility that translates

932
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: his artists message and meaning better. He's elevated the likes

933
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: of Snoop Dogg and Eminem, the Game, Kendrick and fifty

934
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: Cent through his mentorship, and he's bazillionaire through his media

935
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: empire and headphones. Just incredible. Figure. What he lacks in

936
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 1: ice Cube's lyricism, he makes up for in his sonic scope.

937
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: Absolute genius. Yeah, I wonder if he's going to be

938
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: ultimately remembered more as a headphone magnate than a music producer,

939
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: since that's been his gig for the past many years.

940
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 1: Going over the pro Easy East Side. You know, while

941
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: Dre was the musical force behind n w A and

942
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: Ice Cube was the lyrical force, I think Easy for

943
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: Me represented the idea of n w A. You know,

944
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: he was the guy who actually lived the life. And

945
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: I still feel like he had like one of the

946
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: coolest voices in hip hop at that time, and he

947
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: had like a really charismatic persona where he had a

948
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: danger to him, but I also feel like he had

949
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: kind of like a lovable aspect, maybe because he was

950
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: like this short guy with a Jerry Curl hair cut.

951
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: You know, there was something about him that like he

952
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: could be menacing, but he was also like kind of

953
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: like the cute gangster next door. So as a child

954
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: of like the late eighties and early nineties, I'm always

955
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: gonna have love for Easy, I always feel, like you know,

956
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: with the Beach Boys, they always said Dennis Wilson was

957
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: sort of the soul of the band because he was

958
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: the one who served, like even if he wasn't the

959
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: most musically gifted, he was sort of the one who

960
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: lived that life. Like you said, I think that's easy

961
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: ease role in this group. And you know, I mean

962
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: without easy putting the other ruthless records and enlisting Jerry

963
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 1: Heller to help them navigate the music industry, I don't

964
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: think n w A would have had the cultural impact

965
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: that they did. And I mean sure he wasn't the

966
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: mastermind of the sound or the words, but I think

967
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: he was the one who ran the ship and kept

968
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: everything in line. And like I said earlier, he was

969
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: essentially a businessman who rapped, and those solo artistic output

970
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: isn't very impressive. He discovered acts like bone thugs and

971
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: harmony and dressed up and in his lifetime he was

972
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: I think arguably the most successful of the nw A

973
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: members from a financial standpoint, starting his own company with

974
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: his own money and owning a sizeable chunk of Dr

975
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: Dre's output. Uh and you know, plus and we're being

976
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: extremely petty, he never cave to Dre, you know, I

977
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: mean he was his own hand to the end. That's

978
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: the thing about this is that you know, if we

979
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: assume that, you know, for whatever sas and that they

980
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: didn't actually reconcile, you know that Dre is just telling

981
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: this story about them reconciling. But Easy was actually like

982
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: that he was still angry and even when he was

983
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: in a coma, he was angry at Dr Dre. Then like, yeah,

984
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: he did win because he never gave in to Dre,

985
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: and Dre ended up saying all these nice things about

986
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: him after he died. So maybe that was like the

987
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: ultimate like winner move for like Easy, like I'm gonna

988
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: actually die in order to win this rivalry. So that's

989
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: one theory here maybe that puts Easy out ahead. If

990
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: we look at these two guys together, I think, you know,

991
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: on this show, I think we've seen a lot of

992
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: examples of two rivals who existed in the same group

993
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: who for all of their fighting, they ended up complimenting

994
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: each other really well. And I think this is another

995
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: example of that. Like where obviously with Dre, he was

996
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: a great producer, but you know, maybe he was kind

997
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: of like a nerdy guy early on, and he wouldn't

998
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: have been able to make it in a gangster rap

999
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: group if it weren't for someone like easy E who

1000
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: had the drive and he also had the backstory that

1001
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: could give that group the authenticity that it needed. So yeah,

1002
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: I just seemed like they had a great partnership for

1003
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: the short time they were together. Yeah, without Drey's talent,

1004
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: Easy when they made it without Easy focus, I don't

1005
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: think Drey would have made it either. You know, Jordan

1006
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 1: have to say that, like, as we reach another end

1007
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: of of a Rival's episode that I think this is

1008
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: such a great opportunity for you to express yourself. I

1009
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: never know when it's coming. I wait, I wait with

1010
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: bated breath for the entire episode that that felt a

1011
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: little more hackney than usual. I feel like I do

1012
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: like a long set up for it, and I'm not

1013
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: sure if the payoff was worth it, but you know,

1014
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: it's part of what we do on this show now.

1015
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: I feel like there's the fans out there that want

1016
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: the pun at the end. Even though I don't want

1017
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: to do the pun, I'm doing it for the fans.

1018
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: So hopefully you all enjoyed that terrible pun. You are

1019
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: a chronic punner, Stephen. Oh there we go, We got that. Okay,

1020
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to this episode of Rivals. We

1021
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: will be back with more beefs and feuds and long

1022
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: swimming resentments next week. Rivals is a production of My

1023
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The executive producers are Shawn Titone and Noel Brown.

1024
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 1: Supervising producers are Taylor Chicogne and Tristan McNeil. The producer

1025
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: is Joel hat Stat. I'm Jordan run Tug. I'm Stephen Hyden.

1026
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

1027
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcast for My Heart Radio,

1028
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1029
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.