Speaker 1: Amy and TJ presents Aubrey Oday covering the did He trial.
Speaker 2: Let's talk. So you were at court today, you actually
Speaker 2: I was watching you on the television. I was so
Speaker 2: proud of you. You look so beautiful this morning, and I
Speaker 2: was in the most chipper of moods because where we've
Speaker 2: left it off this morning with every journalist and news
Speaker 2: site reporting on the case, was the prosecution should feel
Speaker 2: pretty good right now, the defense should feel nervous. That's
Speaker 2: that was the overall understanding of the moment. They were
Speaker 2: they we were in given that it seems like they
Speaker 2: had made rulings, and if they were conflicted about Rico,
Speaker 2: the rulings of anything underneath, it means that there are
Speaker 2: people thought Rico was there, then they had to have
Speaker 2: thought the other things were there we thought, or most
Speaker 2: of the media world sought, and then as it all
Speaker 2: came in, it just got slipped on its ass so fast.
Speaker 2: I was watching.
Speaker 1: I was watching, Uh, I don't.
Speaker 2: Know who your in air person is. I was looking
Speaker 2: at well Flitter and he was so quiet. I've never
Speaker 2: seen Wolfe so quiet, and I've seen him call elections
Speaker 2: that I don't know what his political beliefs are. But
Speaker 2: I didn't. I don't know that he loved the call
Speaker 2: he had to make, but he stood in that moment
Speaker 2: and made it. When Wolf was silent, I was My
Speaker 2: guts were on the floor.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, look, I have to say I was stunned.
Speaker 1: I was not shocked. And here's the reason why. And
Speaker 1: we spoke about this about weeks ago on this podcast.
Speaker 1: Aubrey is, there were a lot of moments in this
Speaker 1: trial that made you realize that Gift is not a
Speaker 1: lock at all. We have been saying that. I know
Speaker 1: you've been saying that since day one. I've been reporting
Speaker 1: that since day one. There was a lot of gray area.
Speaker 1: There was testimony that came in that either fell flat
Speaker 1: or actually hurt the prosecution. So look, did many people
Speaker 1: anticipate a different verdicts. Yes, But there were moments in
Speaker 1: the trial where as I was discussing with my team
Speaker 1: and with our legal analyst, I remember saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't see a path to a full acquittal, just
Speaker 1: based on the evidence and based on sitting there in court.
Speaker 1: And the reason why was because of those two transportations
Speaker 1: to engage in prostitution charges. I believed that when they
Speaker 1: showed documentation, concrete, tangible evidence that there was really no
Speaker 1: way out of those two charges.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, I didn't see a way out of Cassie's sex trafficking.
Speaker 2: I feel like it was all the way there, and
Speaker 2: her situation was so different than the other victim, Jane Doe,
Speaker 2: you and I discussed you looked at two different people.
Speaker 2: They were drastically different. The Cassie one because I was
Speaker 2: there when she came in the very first day she
Speaker 2: came in to ask plef to be on the label,
Speaker 2: to knowing her in her prior relationship with Ryan, to
Speaker 2: you having been witnessing everything in court, her sex trafficking
Speaker 2: charge was there.
Speaker 1: Yes, And you know what, I I believe that if
Speaker 1: this case were just centered around Cassie, and you remember
Speaker 1: the first indictment was just Cassie, she was victim one,
Speaker 1: and in that indictment victim one with Cassie, I believe
Speaker 1: that had she been the only horror witness and Mia,
Speaker 1: I think give me a testified that I think had
Speaker 1: this been centered just around Cassie, I think that there
Speaker 1: could have been a different outcome here. You know, we
Speaker 1: spoke about this and you just mentioned it that Jane
Speaker 1: and Cassie are very different women, both with horristic alleges,
Speaker 1: so different that the cultural weight of this decision is immeasurable.
Speaker 2: Right now, it is literally heartbreaking to witness to witness
Speaker 2: to know how many civil suits eighty five I think
Speaker 2: now eighty plus lawsuits right now. I think at least
Speaker 2: three or four just filed in the last week. There
Speaker 2: are all of that. Aside from what's going on in court.
Speaker 2: There are so many people that have had their lives
Speaker 2: impacted by day experiences with Sean Combs, only for all
Speaker 2: of those stories to fall short in the eyes of
Speaker 2: the jury. I mean, I can only hope that these
Speaker 2: jurors never have to watch somebody they love endure everything
Speaker 2: that we have heard everyone describe. I feel like Cassie
Speaker 2: is somewhere feeling taking the weight of this in. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've been dissecting all of these people's credibility versus understanding
Speaker 2: their courage. It's in us to dissect versus to see
Speaker 2: and believe what's in front of us. And let's be clear,
Speaker 2: like the courtroom operates by the law, it does not
Speaker 2: mean it delivers justice. Every time we have a lot
Speaker 2: of courts deciding a lot of things right now that
Speaker 2: are going to be put a lot of people in
Speaker 2: danger that are not best for us overall. It's the law,
Speaker 2: it does not mean it is justice, and it's not
Speaker 2: the best place to develop a moral compass the world
Speaker 2: needs right now urgently. So to me, what I worry is,
Speaker 2: we just told the world that everything we even listened
Speaker 2: to Cassie it had experience. I mean, she couldn't leave
Speaker 2: her home without checking in. There were mandatory check ins, routines,
Speaker 2: stop buies, even when she got a little bit of
Speaker 2: her life back. At any point, did he could come
Speaker 2: in and turn her life upside down, the control that
Speaker 2: he had over her life for so long, knowing who
Speaker 2: she was when she came in there, knowing what she
Speaker 2: became all these years later. Like to me, I would
Speaker 2: never in my life want the law to consider that
Speaker 2: of no guilt. What kind of presidents are we starting
Speaker 2: for this industry and for rich, powerful, wealthy men and
Speaker 2: beyond that, Elizabeth, I have seen reporting that when the
Speaker 2: kids came out and got in the van, that they
Speaker 2: opened the van door, which, by the way, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you know this, but Kanye released an album
Speaker 2: which did he on it and with his son's team YEP.
Speaker 2: They released a full album this past week. He played
Speaker 2: his hit song opened Up the Van Door, ended a
Speaker 2: full blown performance, took his shirt off while his girlfriend
Speaker 2: was twerking in the back. Did you get to see
Speaker 2: any of that?
Speaker 1: I saw the commotion around it from where I was standing, because,
Speaker 1: as you know, I was literally live on our air
Speaker 1: most of the day, so I couldn't be right near there.
Speaker 1: But I did see video footage of it. What case
Speaker 1: have you been in?
Speaker 2: Where people stand up and start clapping to your dream team,
Speaker 2: dream team, to a defense that did have put on
Speaker 2: no defense, and to a closing statement that basically flat
Speaker 2: shamed and told the entire world this was a great man.
Speaker 2: He provided an incredible working environment. All these girls were
Speaker 2: housed and they were lined up to do the freak
Speaker 2: offs and this is what women will do. And he
Speaker 2: gave everybody the lab of luxury and every now and
Speaker 2: then he got me in on drugs Like that is
Speaker 2: what the jury believed enough to give a non guilty
Speaker 2: verdict on more of the important charges. So what are
Speaker 2: they telling us? What do artists have to do now?
Speaker 2: What do women have to do now?
Speaker 1: Well, like you said, Aubrey in a court of law.
Speaker 1: They are following the law. The scope is very limited.
Speaker 2: I saw sex trafficking in the law. I have read
Speaker 2: every transcript, as I say, of this, most people have not.
Speaker 2: You've been in court. I have read every transcript because
Speaker 2: I am reporting on this. I am not just watching
Speaker 2: the news Occasionally. I saw a walking path to sex
Speaker 2: trafficking with Cassie. That was very believable. She did not
Speaker 2: soil herself. She did not come off as a liar
Speaker 2: or like I had any doubt in her story unless
Speaker 2: Jane Doe just trickled over onto her walking path. Her
Speaker 2: experience deserved inaccurate calling of the law.
Speaker 1: Look, as you were saying that justice is not always
Speaker 1: served here. It is a high burden to meet these charges.
Speaker 1: And a defense attorney's job is not to prove the truth.
Speaker 1: The defense attorney's job is to defend their client, who
Speaker 1: oftentimes in this case certainly is paying them a lot
Speaker 1: of money.
Speaker 2: I know, and they were paid a lot of money
Speaker 2: to give a narrative that's dishonest and frankly dangerous to
Speaker 2: many people. The Bonnie and Clyde, they were equals. They
Speaker 2: were in a messy love relationship. What is every woman
Speaker 2: out there in a quote messy love relationship thinking about
Speaker 2: in regards to her options to ever feel safe again
Speaker 2: in life tonight?
Speaker 1: Now, I want to tell you because you reference a
Speaker 1: few moments here from Ditty's defense of closing argument where
Speaker 1: they spoke about Cassie and that Bonnie and Clyde narratives. So, Aubrey, today,
Speaker 1: I sat down with Cassie's attorney. I'm the only journalist
Speaker 1: who has sat down with him for his first interview you,
Speaker 1: and I asked, how is Cassie doing because she is
Speaker 1: not expected to speak out. She is at home with
Speaker 1: her family, She's a new mom, she has three kids.
Speaker 1: Her attorney, Doug Wigdoor, told me that she wants to
Speaker 1: move on. But he told me he don't worry about Cassie.
Speaker 1: He said she's actually really doing okay. He said that
Speaker 1: when he spoke to her right after the verdict, that
Speaker 1: she was comforted and filled with gratitude, nrowing that if
Speaker 1: she had not come forward, that Sean Holmes would have
Speaker 1: never stepped foot into a courtroom and would have never
Speaker 1: been convicted. Because look, it is devastating to people like
Speaker 1: you that he was acquitted on the more serious charges,
Speaker 1: that this is a man who is whole life, well
Speaker 1: not his whole life, but you know he's self made.
Speaker 1: But the past three decades has been about wealth, power, access,
Speaker 1: calling the shocks, control, coagent interviews.
Speaker 2: I'll throw those three in myself.
Speaker 1: And now he is a convicted feld. Yes, he's not
Speaker 1: facing life in prison. No, he's not going to serve
Speaker 1: a long, long, long sentence.
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you something.
Speaker 3: I think the judge I was shot.
Speaker 2: I usually a judge would let this person without getting
Speaker 2: the guilty count on the more serious charges if they're
Speaker 2: not a flight risk, and go home. And he didn't.
Speaker 2: He did not let him go home.
Speaker 1: That's very telling.
Speaker 2: And Diddy's known to have his big Fourth of July party.
Speaker 2: This one would have been one for the books because
Speaker 2: I highly doubt that he's reformed any parts of his
Speaker 2: bad behavior in the short time that he's had to
Speaker 2: think about his behavior, because he certainly didn't take any
Speaker 2: accountability or acknowledgement. And he's got his whole family drink
Speaker 2: in that juice. They did a full blown concert outside
Speaker 2: of the fucking federal court building.
Speaker 1: And look, look, I mean, I think what you're getting
Speaker 1: at here is the fact that this judge denied in
Speaker 1: bail room. Remember this is the same judge who determines
Speaker 1: his sentencing. So is that an indicator that when he
Speaker 1: goes in for sentencing, that judge may not be fight
Speaker 1: on the sentencing. Now, of course, the judge has to
Speaker 1: follow the law. He has to look at precedent. Did
Speaker 1: he is a first time offender in the legal sense
Speaker 1: that he has never been convicted before, but he is
Speaker 1: facing ten years on each of these charges. That is
Speaker 1: twenty years if served consecutive.
Speaker 2: And by the way, let's let's also note that the
Speaker 2: prosecution originally asked gave him a plea at the beginning
Speaker 2: of his trial for fifteen judge, the judge could come
Speaker 2: back all the way to twenty. Maybe if he doesn't
Speaker 2: go to twenty, he could even go to eighteen. Eighteen
Speaker 2: years is a significant period of time to serve. And
Speaker 2: unless this is this his plan from the gods above
Speaker 2: and Trump pardons him. If we're not going in that direction,
Speaker 2: which is a whole we're going to start having a
Speaker 2: whole kind of different other conversation if we go on
Speaker 2: that dress. Let's not go into the land of impossibility
Speaker 2: right now and stay in reality, The reality is he
Speaker 2: did not let him go today. He thinks that he
Speaker 2: is still a threat. The point that they were making
Speaker 2: to take him out of jail were the very points
Speaker 2: that were keeping him in there and making sure he
Speaker 2: didn't get bonded out in the first round. They kept
Speaker 2: him in that chill. They are keeping him in that jail,
Speaker 2: which means they think he's a flight risk, because he'd
Speaker 2: be sitting at home if they didn't feel he was.
Speaker 2: He's proven that he's won.
Speaker 3: Because judge the judge is very fair.
Speaker 2: He's been very fair to both sides. And he made the.
Speaker 1: Call on that well he did.
Speaker 2: And also he is going to be making the call
Speaker 2: on the sentencing time. And I don't think he's impressed
Speaker 2: with the rap concert that went on downstairs or any
Speaker 2: of the standing and applauding and Dream Team Dream Team today.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's impressed with that.
Speaker 1: Well, look, it's not just that this judge thought that
Speaker 1: he is a flight list. This judge said that he
Speaker 1: is violent.
Speaker 2: Do you know how many victims called me today, Elizabeth
Speaker 2: and said I'm scared. I'm trying to get somewhere right now.
Speaker 2: And I was like, are we all doing. I wasn't
Speaker 2: feeling scared to go home, but they were like, I
Speaker 2: got a call from somebody high up in the industry
Speaker 2: and he was like, I wouldn't post in real time
Speaker 2: where you are for a while. Don't post your home,
Speaker 2: don't post where you're actually at. Post it like two
Speaker 2: or three days later. That's the type of conversations that
Speaker 2: people are having right now. There are eighty plus simple suits.
Speaker 2: What kind of conversations do you think they're having. What
Speaker 2: kind of odds do you think they have right now
Speaker 2: of what this man could potentially turn into is so dangerous?
Speaker 1: Well, look what you are saying about your concerns, you know,
Speaker 1: Cassy's attorney. After Combs's defense asked for him to be
Speaker 1: released on bail, Kathy's attorney filed a letter to the
Speaker 1: judge staying, Cassie is concerned that her life is in danger,
Speaker 1: that the Cenisses who testified in this trial that their
Speaker 1: lives are in danger, and that he is a danger
Speaker 1: to the community. That was part of what the judge
Speaker 1: considered as he made his decision to deny him bail.
Speaker 1: Now Seawan Combs his face when he was denied bail.
Speaker 2: He was stunned.
Speaker 1: His mouth was open, his eyes were widened.
Speaker 2: He could not believe it.
Speaker 1: He thought that he was going home and like you said,
Speaker 1: that he was going to celebrate July Force with his family.
Speaker 2: And that's the case. What's interesting is how scared he
Speaker 2: was and how defeated he was being reported of yesterday
Speaker 2: and especially this morning today. Everybody talked of his face
Speaker 2: almost having tears, in him being overwhelmed. It's almost as
Speaker 2: if he kind of already thought he knew how things
Speaker 2: were going to go, and he was seeing that it
Speaker 2: could maybe not go that way, and he was trying
Speaker 2: to trust in whatever he believes in was gonna happen,
Speaker 2: because he had all the confidence in the world on
Speaker 2: that final closing day. Then he got really scared. For
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, everyone was reporting it, all of
Speaker 2: this happy, you're a great judge, Thanks a lot, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get a corona. Did you need anything else?
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, I don't think the
Speaker 1: judge was impressed by that, But I'm saying no.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying all of this back and forth behavior
Speaker 2: from him, it makes me feel like he had a
Speaker 2: strong idea. It could just be his attorneys leading him.
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly until I see. I want to
Speaker 2: see what the judge does with the sentencing. I think
Speaker 2: he should be hitting the higher edges of twenty. I'm
Speaker 2: seeing about eighteen. If I see about eighteen, I feel
Speaker 2: like I'll feel like this wasn't something bigger.
Speaker 1: Look, I don't want to get your hope stuff. I
Speaker 1: don't want to get.
Speaker 2: Your viewers hope stuff.
Speaker 1: But every one of our legal experts on our air,
Speaker 1: you know, I have been outside the courthouse every single
Speaker 1: day and inside the court room with Laura Coates, who's
Speaker 1: one of my dear friends and one of our anchors.
Speaker 1: She's a former propecutor. She said that we are looking
Speaker 1: at a minimal amount of us.
Speaker 2: Minimal like why is a minimal amount on five.
Speaker 1: Like three to five? Because he has not been convicted before,
Speaker 1: so in the eyes of the judge and the eyes
Speaker 1: of the court, he is seen as a first time offender. Now,
Speaker 1: look the prosecution they.
Speaker 2: Said Matathine is a first time a sender, they would
Speaker 2: let him go.
Speaker 1: Liz Well, and look, I think you bring up an
Speaker 1: excellent point. Because the judge and denying him bail. That
Speaker 1: was a shock. Now by the way I had predicted
Speaker 1: that outside of the courthouse. I said, this is the
Speaker 1: same judge who denied him bail before his trial. And
Speaker 1: the judge had said the reason why he denied him
Speaker 1: bail is because he was a flight risk, because he
Speaker 1: was a danger to society, and because he was hampering
Speaker 1: with witnesses. Remember the prosecution accused Sean Combe ahead of
Speaker 1: his trial of paying other inmates in the NDC to
Speaker 1: use their phones.
Speaker 2: He was accused of a lot of crazy shit in
Speaker 2: those bond hearings. What's crazy is that was only two
Speaker 2: months ago. You think that you think that thought pattern
Speaker 2: has changed in two months, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: And that is why the judge knows that this is
Speaker 1: a and the judge actually, you know, the judge said
Speaker 1: that I'm just remembering that in denying him bail. He said,
Speaker 1: I already denied him bail when it wasn't mandatory. Why
Speaker 1: would my thoughts change now? So this judge is not
Speaker 1: impressed with some of the behavior that Shawn Colmbs has displayed.
Speaker 1: Like you said, if he was Shawn Colms will be
Speaker 1: home with his family right now. He's awaiting his sentence.
Speaker 2: So you said his face was shocked when they said no.
Speaker 1: His face was shocked.
Speaker 2: How long did it stay shocked?
Speaker 1: You know, momentarily, but he was absolutely stocked. And then
Speaker 1: after when he was being ushered out by the marshals,
Speaker 1: he was talking to his family and he said, it's
Speaker 1: all right, we'll get through this. He said to his
Speaker 1: mom that he loves her so but he was absolutely stunned.
Speaker 2: Was that before or after the rap concert outside the
Speaker 2: federal courtroom?
Speaker 1: That was after, because that rap concert, as you call it,
Speaker 1: and I didn't see it with my own eyes, but
Speaker 1: I saw video of it. And that was after the verdict,
Speaker 1: but before the bail hearing. So this was before he
Speaker 1: was denied bail. When his son was gloating, not quoting,
Speaker 1: he performed the song, he took his shirt off.
Speaker 2: I've seen the footage. He took his shirt off. He
Speaker 2: did all of the lyrics to Free Diddy. You never
Speaker 2: were going to get him. Were rich, We have money,
Speaker 2: you don't. We know how to work this system. These
Speaker 2: are the lyrics of the albums and the song. And
Speaker 2: then his girlfriend jumped out to the van and started working,
Speaker 2: turned around, started dropping that ass outside of a federal building.
Speaker 1: Yes, and look, let me just say one thing. I
Speaker 1: know this is a bit of a tangent, but let's
Speaker 1: be honest. If the one celebrity who shows up during
Speaker 1: trial to support you with Kanye West, and if during
Speaker 1: a trial when your father is facing life in prison,
Speaker 1: you're releasing a song with Kanye West, a blatant hitler
Speaker 1: loving anti semi got to tell you that's not who
Speaker 1: I would want supporting me. So let's just put that
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: Let's just put it out there that they've already done
Speaker 2: a little music collapse from prison, and Kanye's also gotten
Speaker 2: in front of discussing touching his cousin and doing things
Speaker 2: with men, and we're starting to get into dangerous territory
Speaker 2: where we are not talking about the actual conditions, we
Speaker 2: are not even sentencing the actual conditions correctly because nobody
Speaker 2: is being accountable for their actual behavior and intentions. And yes,
Speaker 2: everybody wants to win the circus that we just participated
Speaker 2: in for two months, but I'm not seeing a ton
Speaker 2: of accountability anywhere. Possibly in what you said in regards
Speaker 2: to Cassie feeling like she paved a way for a
Speaker 2: little bit of justice to occur, But God, if we
Speaker 2: were going to open this box and we were going
Speaker 2: to open it wide enough for eighty plus civil lawsuits
Speaker 2: that aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I have spoken with
Speaker 2: multiple lawyers that are representative of multiple cases right now,
Speaker 2: and none of them have plans on dropping their cases
Speaker 2: because they are scared, intimidated, or threatened right now because
Speaker 2: they didn't decide to let him out now had he
Speaker 2: been home in the next hour. I don't know what
Speaker 2: people would be saying tonight, but as of right now,
Speaker 2: nobody's dropping their civil suits. This is ongoing, and let's
Speaker 2: not forget R Kelly walked around the R Kelly got
Speaker 2: away the first time, and he walked around and he
Speaker 2: did his victory lap. OJ Simpson also did a victory lap.
Speaker 2: They were major upsets historically that in the moment they
Speaker 2: were all kinds of cheers. OJ had a much bigger
Speaker 2: reception than Diddy and his son's rap concert with the
Speaker 2: girlfriend working. But either way, if you look at history,
Speaker 2: we've seen walks and victory. We've seen victory. He walks
Speaker 2: where karma ends up still catching up to you at
Speaker 2: the end of it.
Speaker 1: And look, I'm glad that you brought up the civil
Speaker 1: suits because this legal battle is not over for Shaan
Speaker 1: kOhm nowhere.
Speaker 2: Near and by the way, the standard that these people
Speaker 2: have to meet in civil core is much different, and
Speaker 2: it's going to drain the account.
Speaker 1: And look, here's what's interesting is when I interviewed Cassie's
Speaker 1: attorney today, I asked him because he represents aside from Cassie,
Speaker 1: who of course is already settled, he does represent one
Speaker 1: other civil accuser, so of course he can't speak to
Speaker 1: these roughly seventy, however, many dozens?
Speaker 2: Dozens? Does? I heard you say seventy on the air
Speaker 2: a few times. It's over eighty, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Okay, So look, it's a huge number. It's an enormous number,
Speaker 1: all with patterns saying that her not all, but the
Speaker 1: majority of saying that I was drugged, I could drink.
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything, the same patterns.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So I asked Doug Wigdor, Cassie's attorney, I said, what
Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen now that he
Speaker 1: won't be serving a life sentence? Are these civil accusers
Speaker 1: going to be scared? Or will they be pursuing his suit?
Speaker 1: And he brought up something so interesting, He said, look,
Speaker 1: strictly on the plaintiff side, if you're looking at this,
Speaker 1: there's actually a silver lining because had he been convicted
Speaker 1: on racketeering, the government could have seized his assets, meaning
Speaker 1: he has no money. Cassie's attorney said, look at what's
Speaker 1: happened with the Harvey Weinstein victims. He had to bankrupt
Speaker 1: his companies. They have not seen a penny. So of
Speaker 1: course money does not solve everything. I mean, look at Cassie.
Speaker 1: Her attorney told me today that she would rather have
Speaker 1: none of this have happened to her ever, than to
Speaker 1: have that thirty million dollars. I believe that's true, but
Speaker 1: it was an interesting point that he said that for
Speaker 1: these civil accusers, now there is something to go after
Speaker 1: because his assets are not going to be seated. So
Speaker 1: over Shamkom.
Speaker 2: He has a legal mountain.
Speaker 1: Of dozens and dozens and dozens of.
Speaker 2: Civil suits ahead of him. But you know how quickly
Speaker 2: people can move money around and make it disappear, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Look for Shawn Colmbs. His primary concern here was this
Speaker 1: criminal case. He did not want to spend the rest
Speaker 1: of his life behind bars, but he still has these
Speaker 1: civil suits to contend with. And as you said, as
Speaker 1: you're hearing, people are not pulling these suits. And remember,
Speaker 1: if he serves prison time, this is still Shawn Colmbs
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful men behind bars in prison.
Speaker 1: This would not have happened had Cassie not filed her
Speaker 1: lawsuit and had other people come forth with accusations against him.
Speaker 1: So this is really a stunning turn of events if
Speaker 1: you look at where Shawn Colmbs was three years ago.
Speaker 1: So that I think is an important point to make
Speaker 1: that even though he has been absolved of these more
Speaker 1: serious charges, he has not been absolved of the horristic,
Speaker 1: egregious sleeping allegations against him from men and women in
Speaker 1: mine as a cross jackets. He denies all of them,
Speaker 1: but those allegations and still stamp.
Speaker 2: It's still too damning. And by the way, everybody that
Speaker 2: calls me today just looked. They just said, we're never
Speaker 2: going to see justice. They were never going to be
Speaker 2: able to There's so many people that have been so
Speaker 2: disenfranchised in the music industry that they never expected to
Speaker 2: even see anything good from this, Like they were almost
Speaker 2: waiting for another gut punch, the same feeling that we
Speaker 2: saw on the Inner Continental video. Gut punches they come
Speaker 2: in mental forms and physical forms. When it comes to ditty,
Speaker 2: that's a fact. It's on camera, it's a fact. With
Speaker 2: that being said, the mental punches. I watched Cassie's Intercontinental
Speaker 2: video like seventeen times today, Elizabeth, seventeen fucking times.
Speaker 3: There are so many fucking people that feel so unseen.
Speaker 3: It's horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible to talk to them.
Speaker 2: It's horrible to see the news moving on. Like I
Speaker 2: said to our last conversation, what do you do? Just
Speaker 2: move on?
Speaker 3: That's what you did today.
Speaker 2: I watched you having to walk through it, and you
Speaker 2: got your your points made about, you know, with Cassie's lawyer,
Speaker 2: and you did a good job at at like bringing
Speaker 2: up the upsides of this. But like, this is shocking,
Speaker 2: and this is a gut punch for so many people.
Speaker 2: People that don't have lawsuits, people that aren't trying to
Speaker 2: make money to be seen, victims that did not want
Speaker 2: to be seen or profit off of this, but just
Speaker 2: regret ever being in his path and being involved in
Speaker 2: whatever they they whatever hurt harmed them, and they're just
Speaker 2: like I told you, this is how it works. And
Speaker 2: I've been sitting here for two months telling all of
Speaker 2: them this isn't how it works that we got here,
Speaker 2: the case is here. I'm looking over the notes. I'm
Speaker 2: talking to everybody of every color, of every gender. I'm
Speaker 2: talking to every age group, like everybody is feeling consistently
Speaker 2: the same sentencing across the board as to how that
Speaker 2: courtroom made them feel. And the jurors were in that
Speaker 2: courtroom there were more charges there.
Speaker 1: No listen, I believe that I actually referenced this interview
Speaker 1: the last time that we spoke Aubrey. But you know,
Speaker 1: during this trial, I interviewed Toronto Burke, who is the
Speaker 1: head of the N two movement. Yes, and I asked her,
Speaker 1: I said, if Sean Combs is acquitted, what does that
Speaker 1: mean for all of this? And Toronto Burke was saying
Speaker 1: to me, because her life's work is to support survivors
Speaker 1: of sexual violence who are having a very difficult time
Speaker 1: with this verdict today.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys pulled someone on CNN. It wasn't you
Speaker 2: out there, but a woman was pulled out. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's who you're talking about, or it's another
Speaker 2: very epic journalist in the hip hop world, but she
Speaker 2: just said her heart was with Cassie and she you
Speaker 2: know she had interviewed Puff when he was like nine,
Speaker 2: when he was a young kid. She's like a she's
Speaker 2: somebody prolific in the hip hop world. And she literally
Speaker 2: just yanked her on the screen like live, like we're
Speaker 2: gonna just run to this. And the woman literally said,
Speaker 2: I'm wondering when these men are going to finally just
Speaker 2: stop making excuses, acknowledge their behavior, and change it. It's
Speaker 2: really not simple. It's been happening in the industry for
Speaker 2: far too long. The levels of this are being felt
Speaker 2: so deeply among so many people that you don't know
Speaker 2: their names and you never will, and it's all coming
Speaker 2: down to the an accountability card and just finally, stop
Speaker 2: stop making excuses for this behavior and just tell the
Speaker 2: world what you did, and let's get it. Let's stop it.
Speaker 1: So on that note, I want to review what Toronto
Speaker 1: told me when I asked her about what happens if
Speaker 1: he's acquitted, And of course I have not talked her
Speaker 1: yet since this verdict, but here's what she said. She
Speaker 1: said that if he walks away from this case by
Speaker 1: some miracle, we need to be talking about what we
Speaker 1: all witnessed together. You can't unring this bell. We all
Speaker 1: listened to Cassie. We all saw that video. We've heard
Speaker 1: this testimony that's not going anywhere. We sometimes have short memories,
Speaker 1: though in one apology video, one great produced song, he
Speaker 1: could start building himself back. We need to have a
Speaker 1: longer memory. So, regardless of the outcomes of these trials,
Speaker 1: I hope that we have institutional memory of what we saw.
Speaker 1: She went on to tell me, don't gaslight yourself and
Speaker 1: don't doubt yourself. Don't doubt your own eyes and ears.
Speaker 1: We saw that man beat that woman in that hotel.
Speaker 1: Whatever the reasons behind it, we saw what we saw.
Speaker 1: And she said that she tells survivors of sexual violence
Speaker 1: all the time, do not put your weight into the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system, because the criminal justice system, she said,
Speaker 1: has been failing survivors of sexual abuse since the beginning
Speaker 1: of time. She said that to you yet Sean Holmes
Speaker 1: into a courtroom in itself is momentous, and that is
Speaker 1: how she is seeing progress, even if it's a slow, slow,
Speaker 1: slow drip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just a really slow drip, Elizabeth. But I
Speaker 2: agree with the beginning of what she said in regards
Speaker 2: to we need to start having the conversations and we
Speaker 2: need to start holding the behavior accountable. And honestly, I'm
Speaker 2: speaking really predominantly to men out there. You came from
Speaker 2: a woman. You've got to assess your behavior toward women.
Speaker 2: We are literally asking for our own body autonomy back
Speaker 2: and you got us on our knees. Let us up
Speaker 2: and breathe a little bit. Please start being accountable for
Speaker 2: your behavior, start assessing it and changing it. If it's
Speaker 2: if you know in your gut that you resonated with
Speaker 2: the parts of this trial that we're disturbing. We have
Speaker 2: to work together to get a better society of this,
Speaker 2: taking this beyond the jury. Twelve. People are not going
Speaker 2: to decide that a woman, a man, or an artist
Speaker 2: is the property of the most wealthy and powerful people
Speaker 2: if they want them. They're not going to decide that
Speaker 2: for us. That's not in their hands and their call
Speaker 2: is not going to make that decision for us. But
Speaker 2: we have to start protecting each other more, and we
Speaker 2: have to start doing what she said, having conversations that
Speaker 2: are hard to have, and holding ourselves accountable for our behavior.
Speaker 2: All Raby, Thanks Elizabeth