Speaker 1: What do the Holy Grail, Knights, Templar and aliens all
Speaker 1: have in common? Answer? They all may be connected with
Speaker 1: Roslin Chapel, our fifteenth century chapel just down the road
Speaker 1: from Edinburgh. Among other things, it's famous for appearing in
Speaker 1: the best selling book The Da Vinci Code. Here to
Speaker 1: help me unpick the mysteries is Chapel Director Ian Gardner.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Ian,
Speaker 1: I think we should start by you just contextualizing yourself
Speaker 1: as far as the chapel and how you fit in
Speaker 1: with everything.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for inviting me on. My name is Ian.
Speaker 2: Roslin Chapel has been here since fourteen forty six. The
Speaker 2: building is still owned by the Sinclair family, but in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five they set up a charitable trust to
Speaker 2: look after the building, to look after its conservation and
Speaker 2: organize its public opening. So there's a team of nineteen
Speaker 2: ten of us. I hid up the trust so we
Speaker 2: look after the building and open it to visitors.
Speaker 1: Official title Chapel Director.
Speaker 2: That's right, Director of Roslyn Chapel Trust.
Speaker 1: I've never spoken to a chapel director before. I'm feeling
Speaker 1: very very privileged because the place is amazing. Just doing
Speaker 1: my small research, you have got everything in this chapel.
Speaker 1: There is historic nights, there's aliens. That's the first one
Speaker 1: I want to get on too. We haven't actually talked
Speaker 1: about aliens on the podcast before. And this chapel is
Speaker 1: essentially what people think is a stargate to another world,
Speaker 1: another dimension, please tell business.
Speaker 2: Some people do, and I think that is part of
Speaker 2: the fact that the building has captured the imaginations of
Speaker 2: people for generations. So some people attribute all kinds of
Speaker 2: things to the building. We don't think that it is
Speaker 2: a portal to another world, but some people do.
Speaker 1: Well, that's disappointing starts off.
Speaker 2: But for some people they do, and that's absolutely fine.
Speaker 2: So I think one of the great things about the
Speaker 2: chapel is that there are so many ways to interpret
Speaker 2: the building. It's full of medieval stone carvings. We don't
Speaker 2: have the definitive plan of what each of these means,
Speaker 2: so it's really down to visitors to draw their own
Speaker 2: conclusions about what carvings depict and even why the building
Speaker 2: is is here. It was built as a family church
Speaker 2: back in the mid fifteenth century, but it's incredibly ornate,
Speaker 2: so there's speculation that it was built really as a
Speaker 2: status symbol because the Sinclayers were wealthy and powerful and
Speaker 2: well educated. Other people will say, no, it was built
Speaker 2: to house treasures, to be a safe deposit for treasures,
Speaker 2: so and that's why it was so ornate. So even
Speaker 2: when you look at the building and why it was
Speaker 2: here their speculation, one thing we do think is that
Speaker 2: it was built high on a hill so that people
Speaker 2: could look at the building, admire it and be in
Speaker 2: awe of Sir William Sinclair of his ability to create
Speaker 2: this chapel. The family lived in a castle which is
Speaker 2: about The ruins of the castle are about ten minutes
Speaker 2: walk from here, so they could have had their chapel
Speaker 2: at the side of the castle, but actually then no
Speaker 2: one would have seen it, and so by having it
Speaker 2: built high on a hill, it meant that people would
Speaker 2: be able to see it to be in awe of
Speaker 2: the family and of what they could achieve. And the
Speaker 2: building was never finished, so William wanted to have a
Speaker 2: much bigger building, but when he died, his son who
Speaker 2: inherited it, just finished off the part that had been created.
Speaker 2: So we've only got a portion of what his vision was.
Speaker 1: What could have been so fifteenth century peacocking is what
Speaker 1: they say when you're trying to pick up girls in clubs,
Speaker 1: you wear like really flashy hats or like flashy shirts
Speaker 1: to sort of go, hey, look how good I am. Peacocking.
Speaker 1: So this is him just doing peacocking, but just with
Speaker 1: a chapel.
Speaker 2: I think it is he wanted to secure his place
Speaker 2: in heaven.
Speaker 1: That's interesting you're saying about securious place in heaven, as
Speaker 1: if God is looking down on the people with all
Speaker 1: their chapels and what they've done to him. Because there's
Speaker 1: some people who would go, now, what God would wants
Speaker 1: us to do would be very minimalist and just to
Speaker 1: sort of small, humble prayer room, or some people then going, now,
Speaker 1: what God really wants is some proper big old statues
Speaker 1: and stained glass windows and ornate carvings. At what points
Speaker 1: in history did people change their mind and what God
Speaker 1: was actually wanting them to do?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's always been open to interpretation. Again,
Speaker 2: so from very humble churches to very large cathedrals. People
Speaker 2: have built churches to kind of suit there at different
Speaker 2: times of history. What's interesting here, I suppose one of
Speaker 2: the perks of my job is to occasionally get up
Speaker 2: on the roof and see parts of the building that
Speaker 2: other visitors don't, And you see carvings up there which
Speaker 2: no one else can see. They're kind of tucked away
Speaker 2: on the roof of the building, but they're there because
Speaker 2: God presumably could see them, and that was all part
Speaker 2: of Sir William's his vision to have this building more
Speaker 2: elaborate than anybody else's.
Speaker 1: Obviously, either God seeing them or possibly the aliens seeing
Speaker 1: them from out of space is the other angle you
Speaker 1: could take.
Speaker 2: There, all open to interpretation.
Speaker 1: What sort of carvings are these things? Were we talking?
Speaker 1: Are there little green men walking around?
Speaker 2: There?
Speaker 1: Are?
Speaker 2: There are green men, but of a kind of different
Speaker 2: green maine, so they medieval green maine. Are not the
Speaker 2: tree bloke, These are the tree guy. These are faces
Speaker 2: with leaves and vines coming out of them. So we
Speaker 2: do have our own green maine. And it's not unusual
Speaker 2: tentacles churches of this siege have green maine faces. We
Speaker 2: have over a hundred of them, so it's very unusual
Speaker 2: to have so many. But yeah, we do have our
Speaker 2: own green main but not not of an alien kind.
Speaker 2: And people have said that, you know, there's so many
Speaker 2: things buried underneath the chapel, and in fact, anything you've
Speaker 2: ever lost might well be buried underneath the chapel. And
Speaker 2: I think that's where the kind of alien dimension comes in.
Speaker 2: The portal to another world.
Speaker 1: Or just a bunch of TV remote controls and the
Speaker 1: back of couches. All these carvings and various the artistry
Speaker 1: does mean that people do believe in this sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: and so you must get lots of interesting characters turning
Speaker 1: up at the chapel wanting to do all sorts of
Speaker 1: various things over the years. Can you give me sort
Speaker 1: of a few stories of some of the various people
Speaker 1: who have cropped up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we get a great mix of people. And before
Speaker 2: the pandemic we were welcoming about one hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: thousand people a year, so it's a busy spot.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: People come for all different reasons. We had somebody back
Speaker 2: in the midst of time who believed that the Holy
Speaker 2: Griel was hidden in one of the pillars of the chapel,
Speaker 2: so he chained himself to the pillar and the staff
Speaker 2: locked the doors, and I think that was more skeay
Speaker 2: for him than anything.
Speaker 1: Well, they just let him stay in there over the evening.
Speaker 2: And I think eventually the police are ruding. But yes,
Speaker 2: we get people coming up with all kinds of beliefs.
Speaker 2: The chapel is still a working church. It's part of
Speaker 2: the Scottish Episcopal Church. It is still a place of worship.
Speaker 2: It is still used as a church. But people come
Speaker 2: really for all kinds of reasons.
Speaker 1: Hopefully at different times. Is there a particular part of
Speaker 1: the chapel that people think might be the Star Game?
Speaker 2: People think that they're still called Lee lines Energy lines.
Speaker 2: People think that that are parts of the building where
Speaker 2: you can feel different types of energy. But again it's
Speaker 2: all down to individuals.
Speaker 1: We've been on a ghost hunt on this podcast before
Speaker 1: and the word there's an energy gets brought up quite
Speaker 1: a lot, quite a vague term scientifically, Isn't it just
Speaker 1: oh no, there's just a feeling over in this corridor
Speaker 1: that there might be something extra.
Speaker 2: I think it is and I think it is just
Speaker 2: a feeling.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the carvings then, and who actually did
Speaker 1: the carvings? Who's responsible for that?
Speaker 2: So the building was founded by Sir Williamson clear The
Speaker 2: Sinclair's were Viking family by origin. They traveled over to
Speaker 2: Normandy and they came to Scotland in the year ten seventies.
Speaker 2: So Sir Williamson Clear who was the member of the
Speaker 2: family in the mid fifteenth century, he created the chapel
Speaker 2: and we think he was very influential. He was almost
Speaker 2: the architect, working with the master mason to decide which
Speaker 2: carvings were created and where they would go.
Speaker 1: This is the master mason who got a bit jelly
Speaker 1: by the end of it with one of his apprentices.
Speaker 2: Well there's a legend. Yeah, there's a great legend. There
Speaker 2: are three pillars leading into the Lady Chapel.
Speaker 1: What's the lady chapel?
Speaker 2: Well, in the medieval Catholic church, that would have been
Speaker 2: the part dedicated to Mary. One of the carving one
Speaker 2: of the pillars was carved by the master mason, and
Speaker 2: the one nearest the high altar, which would have been
Speaker 2: the kind of prime location. He couldn't decide what to
Speaker 2: do with that one. So he was allowed by the
Speaker 2: family to go and travel to see what other churches
Speaker 2: and cathedrals had in Europe. And legend is that off
Speaker 2: he went to find out. Nobody knew if he would
Speaker 2: come back or not. And while he was away, his
Speaker 2: apprentice was said to have had a vision, and in
Speaker 2: his dream he saw this pillar with vines swirling round
Speaker 2: it and dragons at the base of it. And the
Speaker 2: family thought that that looks that looks great, and so
Speaker 2: he was allowed to create this pillar. And when the
Speaker 2: master mason did come back, the legend is that rather
Speaker 2: than being proud of what his apprentice had done, he
Speaker 2: was said to be furious, and he was said to
Speaker 2: have struck him with a mallet and kill them on
Speaker 2: the spot, And then the master mason was said to
Speaker 2: have been put to death for murder. He would think
Speaker 2: he would have been proud that his his teaching had
Speaker 2: produced this work of art, but the legend is that
Speaker 2: he flew into a rage and killed his apprentice. He
Speaker 2: was ready to come back and create his pillar. He
Speaker 2: was coming back, ready to do it, and found that
Speaker 2: it had already been done.
Speaker 1: So he decided to turn the apprentice mason into a
Speaker 1: pillar himself and carved him.
Speaker 2: Up exactly exactly, And.
Speaker 1: Again, did you do it with a chisel? We think
Speaker 1: it's probably a mallet, much much much nicer.
Speaker 2: There's a number of cathedrals and churches that have got
Speaker 2: this kind of legend, but we do know that at
Speaker 2: the time the Archbishop of Saint Andrew's was given people
Speaker 2: authority to reconsecrate part of the chapel because of bloodshed.
Speaker 2: So maybe there is some truth in that story of
Speaker 2: the murdered apprentice. We don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm worried. Do you have an apprentice under you? I'm
Speaker 1: imagining you as the chapel director going abroad for holiday
Speaker 1: or something, and whatever your equivalent of a pillar is,
Speaker 1: and then some person in the cast has just come
Speaker 1: and done your job better, and then you just bludge
Speaker 1: them to death. I don't know, just to keep the
Speaker 1: traditions of the chapel going.
Speaker 2: It's a very risky place to work.
Speaker 1: All the mallets and all the carvings made from plastic
Speaker 1: cutloring just a safeguard everything. There's also a conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: that all these carvings make up a musical score.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a local father and son, the Mitchells,
Speaker 2: Tommy and Stuart Mitchell, who came up with a theory
Speaker 2: about a state of carvings in the Lady Chapel. We
Speaker 2: were just talking about that where the apprentice pillar is
Speaker 2: and in that part of the chapel there's a whole
Speaker 2: series of musical angels. There's carvings of angels playing different
Speaker 2: instruments because we're in Scotland, there's a carving of an
Speaker 2: angel playing bagpipes, and through a process known as cimatics,
Speaker 2: they developed a musical score which was based on the
Speaker 2: notes that they deciphered from these cubes, and they produced
Speaker 2: a piece of music called the Roslin Mote. It it's
Speaker 2: been performed here, it's available as a CD, it's been
Speaker 2: featured on various TV programs. Now, whether that was part
Speaker 2: of the plan or whether it's a coincidence, again, we
Speaker 2: don't know, but it's it's a great piece of music.
Speaker 2: That's something that they've deciphered as the Roslin note.
Speaker 1: Well, even if that isn't true that the it was
Speaker 1: meant to be a musical score, the fact that they
Speaker 1: have made a musical score out of it is sort
Speaker 1: of good enough anyway. That's that's wonderful in itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I think it is. And you know, it's
Speaker 2: been performed here, and people really like the story that
Speaker 2: the research that's gone into it, the a huge amount
Speaker 2: of work they put into it. So yes, it is
Speaker 2: a great story and a great tribute to them.
Speaker 1: The other big thing the chapel's got going on is,
Speaker 1: of course the Knights, Templar and the Holy Grail. Now,
Speaker 1: last time I did my research, I was pretty sure
Speaker 1: that the Holy Grail was dissolving Nazis in a temple
Speaker 1: with Indiana Jones. But there is also a conspiracy that
Speaker 1: it's in the chapel somewhere.
Speaker 2: There's lots of different theories about what the Holy Grail is,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people connect the Holy Grail to
Speaker 2: Roslyn Chapel because of an author called Dan Brown. He
Speaker 2: wrote The da Vinci Court and at the ag I'm
Speaker 2: not going to give it away if you've not read
Speaker 2: it or seen the film, but at the end, the
Speaker 2: characters come to Roslin Chapel as they're on their search
Speaker 2: for the Grail, and after they came here where thousands
Speaker 2: more people came to visit the chapel as a result,
Speaker 2: But as far as we know, nobody's been able to
Speaker 2: find it yet. Walter Scott wrote about the chapel and
Speaker 2: he talked about the Barons of Roslin being laid out
Speaker 2: on their armor. So we think that there are former
Speaker 2: Sinclair Knights buried underneath the chapel. We think that in
Speaker 2: the sixteenth century the Sinclair's looked after treasures which were
Speaker 2: taken from Holyrood in Edinburgh. They were kept here for safekeeping.
Speaker 2: Nobody knows if they came here or indeed if they
Speaker 2: were returned, so there might still be treasures of a
Speaker 2: different kind buried underneath the chapel. And we know that
Speaker 2: in the sixteenth century Mariya of Geese wrote to the
Speaker 2: family thanking them for showing her and sharing with her
Speaker 2: the secrets of Roslin, but we don't know what they were.
Speaker 2: But for someone as significant as that, it's great that
Speaker 2: we've got that letter from her.
Speaker 1: Could we just explain to any listeners who don't know
Speaker 1: what exactly is the Holy Grail and who exactly are
Speaker 1: the Knights Templar.
Speaker 2: One of the theories there's the Holy Grail is the
Speaker 2: cup that was used by Jesus at the Last Supper.
Speaker 2: There are other theories that it was the actually the
Speaker 2: bloodline of Christ. That's part of the story that was
Speaker 2: developed in the Da Vinci Code. But I think most
Speaker 2: people most sort of artistic impressions are of a cup
Speaker 2: or a goblet of some.
Speaker 1: Kind, and the Knights Templar.
Speaker 2: Well, they were the ones who protected the temple of Solomon,
Speaker 2: and they became incredibly powerful and wealthy, and almost two
Speaker 2: powerful and wealthy. So they were dissolved in the early
Speaker 2: fourteenth century by the King of France. Scotland at that
Speaker 2: time had been excommunicated by the Pope, so Scotland was
Speaker 2: seen as a kind of safe destinations. So we think
Speaker 2: that some of the Templars did come to Scotland. There's
Speaker 2: a village not far from here which is known as
Speaker 2: Temple and that was the Scottish headquarters of the Templars. So,
Speaker 2: and that there are various carvings inside the chapel which
Speaker 2: could have connections. They could have meaning an interpretation to
Speaker 2: Nights Templar.
Speaker 1: I heard they had massive beads and then when they
Speaker 1: got found out, they'd shave them off and go into
Speaker 1: sort of hiding.
Speaker 2: Sounds good disguise, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's not bad, It's not bad. How do they manage
Speaker 1: to get so powerful, these nights Templar well by going
Speaker 1: around taking over places?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, I think so. Yeah, And they
Speaker 2: looked after this route to Solomon's temple, and you know,
Speaker 2: for lots of pilgrims. That was a very important route
Speaker 2: for them, and the templars where they became money lenders.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they became incredibly rich in power, and that
Speaker 2: was really their downfall.
Speaker 1: What's so good about Solomon's Temple? Why do they love
Speaker 1: it so much?
Speaker 2: Then? The Bible, the Temple of Solomon is is the
Speaker 2: kind of the place where the arc of the Covenant
Speaker 2: and all sorts of treasures would have been kept.
Speaker 1: Because there's lots of treasure in there exactly. The Night
Speaker 1: Sempler are quite often portrayed as villainous more than good though,
Speaker 1: Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I think there's so much interest
Speaker 2: in the Templars. I think there their basic premise was
Speaker 2: was based on good. They were trying to look after
Speaker 2: this place and provide a safe passage for people going there.
Speaker 2: But I think I think just then they became victims
Speaker 2: of their own success and and as I say, became
Speaker 2: incredibly rich and powerful and became a threat to the
Speaker 2: establishment in other countries.
Speaker 1: If you were to pick between one of the conspiracies
Speaker 1: being true, Holy Grail or Aliens, which one would you pick?
Speaker 2: I think there's probably more to the Holy Grail and treasures.
Speaker 2: I think the fact that we've got letters from people,
Speaker 2: very significant people acknowledging that they've been shown secrets, so
Speaker 2: I you know, it may well be that there are
Speaker 2: treasures you have.
Speaker 1: You have as as as the kids would say, you
Speaker 1: have the receipts of people.
Speaker 2: You have some. And but again just just kind of
Speaker 2: without going into detail, which I think is good that
Speaker 2: we've got something that kind of sparks your imagination without
Speaker 2: telling you exactly what it was they saw.
Speaker 1: You've got the Aliens, you've got the Covenant, and you've
Speaker 1: got the Holy Grail. This is literally films one to
Speaker 1: four of Indiana Jones. You should do like a midnight
Speaker 1: screening of the Indiana Jones.
Speaker 2: But we've done outdoor screenings of the Da Vinci Code.
Speaker 2: Now our connections more to the Da Vinci Code rather
Speaker 2: than the Indiana Jones. But we do have carvings of
Speaker 2: what's been described as may So exotic plants. There's carvings
Speaker 2: that are said to be cactus and aluvira and a
Speaker 2: plant that's known in Canada called trillium. These are all
Speaker 2: here in the chapel, and the one that's said to
Speaker 2: be May's is particularly interesting because of course May's wasn't
Speaker 2: known in these rural parts of Scotland in the time
Speaker 2: when the chapel was built. It was said to have
Speaker 2: been part of what Columbus discovered in America in fourteen
Speaker 2: ninety two, which was after the building of the chapel
Speaker 2: had been completed. So there's a theory that the founder
Speaker 2: of the chapel, his grandfather, had actually traveled to the
Speaker 2: New World, had seen different plants, different things, come back
Speaker 2: and share these stories with his grandson and then they
Speaker 2: were incorporated into the carvings of the chapel. So it's
Speaker 2: another mystery. It's another sort of point of speculation. Are
Speaker 2: these carvings what they say they are or another interpretation?
Speaker 2: And if they are, how could they be here when
Speaker 2: they weren't known in this part of Scotland at that time.
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a massive connection towards the Da Vinci carriage.
Speaker 1: As you said, were you aware that the books were
Speaker 1: about to come out or the film was about to
Speaker 1: be released? Firstly, like what was it like if they
Speaker 1: actually filmed in the chapel with Tom Hanks hanging around?
Speaker 1: And then what was the explosion of interest, Like.
Speaker 2: Well, we knew that the film was going to be
Speaker 2: made here. We didn't know about the book, and one
Speaker 2: of one of the members of staff who worked here
Speaker 2: at the time had been in America on holiday and
Speaker 2: picked up this book in the airport. The book called
Speaker 2: The Da Vinci Code. Think it would be a good
Speaker 2: read on the flight home, and got towards the end
Speaker 2: and found that the characters came to Roslin Chapel. So
Speaker 2: that was the kind of first that we knew about it.
Speaker 2: So when the before the Boot came out, we were
Speaker 2: welcoming maybe about thirty thousand visitors every year. When the
Speaker 2: Boot came out, the numbers went up to about seventy thousand,
Speaker 2: so it had a huge impact. But then in two
Speaker 2: thousand and five Tom Hanks came to visit and the
Speaker 2: filming was done, and in two thousand and six the
Speaker 2: film came out and at the peak numbers went up
Speaker 2: to one hundred and seventy six thousand a year.
Speaker 1: Wow, Christ, that's way more, huge, huge impact, I bet,
Speaker 1: because also I think the energy of the type of
Speaker 1: person visiting would have been different. I imagine when it
Speaker 1: was thirty thousand, they'd have been sort of quite quaint
Speaker 1: and looking at the nice architecture and the beauty, and
Speaker 1: then sudden it's one hundred and seventy Dan Brown fanatics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think exactly, and then going absolutely insane and all
Speaker 1: with their maps and goggles.
Speaker 2: And yeah, everyone trying to work out these these puzzles
Speaker 2: and mysteries.
Speaker 1: Are there any parts of the chapel or carvings or
Speaker 1: secret scribbles that are off limits to the tourists or
Speaker 1: people don't say or people don't know about. Just whisper
Speaker 1: it to me, and then I don't know what I'm whispering.
Speaker 2: Whispering nobody here. Rotherland Castle's nearby, and there's said to
Speaker 2: be a secret passage between the chapel and the castle.
Speaker 2: We've not really uncovered anything there.
Speaker 1: Of course, if you did have any secrets, you obviously
Speaker 1: wouldn't be letting us now anyway, would you.
Speaker 2: You've got to come and have a look. Yep.
Speaker 1: What do you think that secret tunnel would have been
Speaker 1: used for? If there is a secret tunnel.
Speaker 2: Well, it might just have been for for safety if
Speaker 2: people had been We know that the castle was attacked
Speaker 2: several times, so it might have been away for the
Speaker 2: family who were down there to escape. I don't think
Speaker 2: it would have been really for any other reason other
Speaker 2: than that kind of safe passage between one building and
Speaker 2: the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a quick exit for the aliens once they've
Speaker 1: come through the.
Speaker 2: Sagates exactly or not, but possibly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on to the
Speaker 1: podcast for the pleasure. I really want to come and
Speaker 1: visit now, because.
Speaker 2: Yeah you must so. We're only seven miles from Edinburgh.
Speaker 2: We're open all year. Come and visit and see for
Speaker 2: yourself and make up your own mind about this amazing building.
Speaker 1: I'm going to finish up with some quick fire questions.
Speaker 1: Aside from rosen Chapel and Castle, where is your favorite
Speaker 1: stately home or historical building.
Speaker 2: I work for a long time for the National Trust
Speaker 2: for Scotland. There's a very quirky place in the borders
Speaker 2: called roberts Malls printing works of Victorian printing works, where
Speaker 2: you almost stay back in time, and so if you've
Speaker 2: never been there, I think that's well worth the visit.
Speaker 2: It's not as famous as some but it's a really
Speaker 2: fascinating place.
Speaker 1: That's cool. If you could go back in time to
Speaker 1: any place in history, where would it be.
Speaker 2: Well. I enjoyed doing Roman history a number of years ago,
Speaker 2: So I think maybe going back to to visiting the
Speaker 2: Romans would be interesting, but obviously here visiting when the
Speaker 2: building was being created, when the castle was being lived in,
Speaker 2: and the sort of great high life was.
Speaker 1: Was eighteenth century enjoyed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be great to see that.
Speaker 1: Who from Roslin Chapel's history would you most like to
Speaker 1: meet and why? And what would you ask them?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it would probably have to be Sir
Speaker 2: William Sinclair, the one who founded it, because if it
Speaker 2: wasn't for him, you know, we wouldn't be welcoming thousands
Speaker 2: of people just now. So I think finding out maybe
Speaker 2: what he did mean by all these carvings would be good.
Speaker 2: But then, you know, on the other hand, maybe it's
Speaker 2: better that we don't know. If we knew all the answers,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be able to to speculate. But I think
Speaker 2: it would be really interesting to meet him and get
Speaker 2: his take on the building and his vision and to
Speaker 2: find out I suppose it'd be interesting to find out
Speaker 2: what he saw in the bit that was never created,
Speaker 2: so that would have been in his mind, but nobody
Speaker 2: else is because it was never completed.
Speaker 1: And finally, why should people visit Roslyn Chapel.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the real mix of amazing architecture, a huge history,
Speaker 2: all these myths and legends and speculation, the fact that
Speaker 2: it's been attracted Hollywood. There's lots to see, there's lots
Speaker 2: to do while you're here, and that people come with
Speaker 2: lots of questions about the chapel. But I think most
Speaker 2: people actually go away with more questions than when they arrived.
Speaker 1: Ian. Thank you so much for joining us on the
Speaker 1: podcast and the excellent work you're doing at Roslyn Chapel.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've secured your own place in Heaven.
Speaker 2: Thank you. We'll look forward to seeing you here sometimes.
Speaker 1: Or up on Cloud nine, who knows.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Right, that's all we've got time for this week. I'm
Speaker 1: off to the roof of the studio to make some carvings.
Speaker 1: I've got to make sure the Bad Manner's crew make
Speaker 1: it to Heaven. Well apart from producer Chris, he hasn't
Speaker 1: even managed to make me a coffee. So until next time,
Speaker 1: remember the truth is out there, so mind your manners.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Bad Manners. If you like the pod,
Speaker 1: please share it with your friends. Rate it on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Leave a review and make sure you spill the tea
Speaker 1: on any of your favorite bad manners that we could
Speaker 1: feature in future episodes. This podcast was produced by Atamei
Speaker 1: Studios for iHeartRadio. It was hosted by me Tom Horton.
Speaker 1: It was produced by Willie Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway.
Speaker 1: It was executive produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers.
Speaker 1: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator
Speaker 1: is Bella Selini