1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie Oh Sava, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I've never told your protection of I heart Radio. Today 3 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: we are tackling a topic that is a personal one 4 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: for me, as you know, Samantha, because we've discussed it 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: a lot. Due to an injury when I was in 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: middle school, I lost a decent amount of hearing capability 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: in my right ear, and it has impacted so much 8 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: of my life. The way I walk, where I sit, 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: the processing time it takes for me to understand. I 10 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: feel like I'm having to do a lot of mental work, 11 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: the panic when talking on the phone if I can't 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: see your face. Oh, the way that I sleep because 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I sleep on my right ear so I can hear 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: if something is happening with my left ear. Um. And 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: I recognize that I'm very, very privileged to have the 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: hearing that I do. But I would be lying if 17 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: I said that it wasn't a source of a lot 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: of anxiety for me, especially because we are in an 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: audio media our job, it's all about hearing and listening 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: and us. Of course, now that we're coming to you 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: from our I call my studio studio quarantine, my closet 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: studio um. That means a lot more phone interviews and 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: or skype interviews, so it's been on my mind. Um, 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: and I did get this injury in a pretty dramatic way. 25 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: So it's just this reminder every day. Uh, and sometimes 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: it is very triggering, and I have I've only just 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: started opening up about it because people at work started 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: noticing habits that I had that I would always sit 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: on one side of the table. I would sit on 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: one side of the boom. Um. And then I had 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: to confess us that I phone interviews made me really 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: really anxious on this show because people would sort of 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: be like, I feel like you never talking that much 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: during those episodes of listeners right in and I I 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: would say, I'm probably trying very very hard to catch 36 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: up with what they just said and to process that 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: information and then have a comment. And by the time 38 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: I've done that, the conversations moved on or something. Yeah, um, 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: I remember when you first told me. I just assumed 40 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: it was the professionalism of like waiting and pausing just 41 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: in case they wanted to add things. So to me, 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense. 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: And as a person that doesn't struggle with that, I 44 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: could absolutely understand. I'm like, oh, that makes a lot 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: more sense to your reaction time, to your habits in general. 46 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I actually had my h earlier school. 47 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what it's called. Schools of days that 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: wasn't college. What are those? I'm very education sure, okay, 49 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: I know words. Um. During that time, like my best 50 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: friend's little sister had also had damage on one side 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: of her ear through illness, and so she was deaf 52 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: in one ear, and I remember having to understand, oh, 53 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: that's why she's not paying attention, and when I'm trying 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: to talk to her on the side of her it's 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: not just because she's not listening to me, which I'm 56 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: sure has been an issue with yours your stuff as well, 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: when you're like, no, I'm not being awkward, No I'm 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: not ignoring you. I just literally did not hear you 59 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,839 Speaker 1: because you're on the wrong side of my body. Yeah. 60 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: And sometimes I catch myself doing what I feel like 61 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: is I think I feel like dogs do this where 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: they sort of cock their head. So sometimes if it 63 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: the room has been silent for a while, I just 64 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: kind of turned my head and cock it to make 65 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: sure there isn't a sound that I'm not picking up 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: on that I should be picking up on UM. And 67 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: I even had somebody tell me that UM is for 68 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: a movie I was in. He said I almost didn't 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: get the job because of how awkward I was on 70 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: the phone, and he felt he felt terrible when I 71 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: told him my struggles with the phone. Yeah yeah, yeah, 72 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: But I mean that was in a way both very 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: upseting and very comforting to know it's not just in 74 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: my head. There is a blettle of awkwardness happening here. Well. 75 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: To be fair, I am really awkward on the phone 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: as well. I'll rush you off a conversation real quick 77 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: because I hate being on the phone anyway. And I 78 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: does don't like just pausing and just be like, what 79 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: are you? Are you saying that? Me? You? Me? You 80 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: like that whole level, So that could be so for sure, 81 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't. I only have like three friends and a 82 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: few family members that like talking on the phone. It's 83 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: just it doesn't seem like it's a really popular thing, 84 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: and no one likes it. After you can figure out 85 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: you don't actually have to be on the phone anymore 86 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: to come memunicates, I'm like, oh, let's do this other 87 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: way instead. I'm not gonna lie though, because whole like 88 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: face to face thing is also shocking new level of shocking. Yes, yes, 89 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: I much prefer that, uh but yeah, yeah, for sure. 90 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Um So in this episode, we're going to look at 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: some specific aspects of hearing when it comes to women 92 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: and listening when it comes to women, and other intersections 93 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: of that. But honestly, this is a huge There are 94 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: so many lanes we could have gone down. Well, yeah, 95 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: just by the definition of hearing and listening, you could 96 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: go into the figurative, you could go into the water 97 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: roll and and it is the whole several topic worth 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: absolutely and we definitely have touched on some of those 99 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: topics in previous episodes and we'll be sure to shout 100 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: those out as we go along. But okay, let's let's 101 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: get into the meat the meat. Yeah, So when it 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: comes to listening, as with a lot of things, we 103 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: talked about a whole lot of fact just play a role, culture, gender, race, socialization, 104 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: relationships topics, and many more. Yes, And for Samantha and 105 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: I in particular, we've definitely had a handful of episodes 106 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: where we've talked about how we judge women's voices more 107 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: harshly when it comes to things like up talk and 108 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: vocal fry, the credibility gap. Um, So those are out 109 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: there as well, and it is it does play a 110 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: role in what we're talking about, but we're not going 111 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: to hone in specifically on those things too much today. 112 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: So hearing in terms of science of hearing or of 113 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: physical hearing, there's a lot out there. Most of the 114 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: studies seem to suggest that women generally have more hearing 115 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,119 Speaker 1: sensitivity and greater susceptibility to high frequency noise exposure, among 116 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: other things, while men have greater sound localization again, among 117 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: other things. Yeah, I had to look up so many 118 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: terms when reading these research papers to understand what was 119 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: going on. So let's talk about hearing loss for a second. 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: Over fifty million Americans experience hearing loss. The National Institute 121 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders found that men are 122 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: twice as likely to experience hearing loss and much less 123 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: likely to seek help for it. Men tend to lose 124 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: higher frequencies first, while women lose lower frequencies first, according 125 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: to the Hearing Aid Project, That means women's ability to 126 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: hear vowels is more impacted, while men's ability to hear 127 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: consonants is more impacted, which can foster a lot of miscommunication. 128 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: Women with hearing laws are more likely to use verbal 129 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: and maladaptive strategies, things like interrupting people, informing people about 130 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: what they're hearing laws, all that rights, and from what 131 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: I could ascertain from the study, men are more likely 132 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: to just sort of shrug it off. Right. Yeah, but 133 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about listening to women. So we have a 134 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: long story history of fictional women warning of danger to come. 135 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: We know this at example, maybe Cassadra warning the Greeks 136 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: of the Trojan Horse comes to mind, um, and not 137 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: being listened to. We have so many examples of this 138 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: in our media that my co host over at Savor, 139 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: Lauren and I did a whole episode on this show 140 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: um when it comes to the context of horror movies, 141 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: called why Didn't You Believe Her? And then we tied 142 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: it into the whole Brett Kabin of thing. So, if 143 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: you are looking for more examples, so many, so many examples. 144 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: A study so little dated found that when presenting if 145 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: ho on a traditionally masculine topic, a traditionally feminine topic, 146 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: and a neutral topic, people listened more carefully to the 147 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: male speakers even when the presentation was the same. In 148 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: all of the presentations, even the traditionally feminine topic, there 149 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: wasn't a difference and who was more informative the male 150 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: or female presenters are the participants rating of who is 151 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: more informative of When it came to effectiveness, steady participants 152 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: generally rated the male presenter with the same level of effectiveness, 153 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: but the male respondents gave higher ratings to the female 154 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: presenters than the women in the study did, and the 155 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: theory was that men the male participants did not expect 156 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: the female presenters to be competent, so when they were, 157 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: they rated them higher than they did the men. This 158 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: is directly out of the study, it says, as one 159 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: basis for this differential evaluation. Burger, Cohen and Zeldag and 160 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: Lockheed in Hall have suggested that difference in the evaluation 161 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: of behavior of males and females are directly related to 162 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: the effect of sex as a status characteristics. Since the 163 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: male sex is more highly valued and thus is accorded 164 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: higher status, Assessments of male behaviors are also valued more 165 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: even when compared to equally effective behavior performed by a female. 166 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: A possible consequence of these perceived differences is that if 167 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: women are perceived as being less competent, this might influence 168 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: the ability to exert influence and impair their credibility rights. 169 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: A two thousand study used brain scans to determine that 170 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: men listen with one side of their brain, while women 171 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: listen with both. This doesn't mean that women are better listeners, though, 172 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: and the researchers cautioned that they couldn't untangle whether this 173 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: was because of hardwiring in the brain or social conditioning. 174 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: So other research on the brain hash down that even 175 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: at a young age, boys and girls process language differently, 176 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: more sensory for boys and abstract for girls. Scientists are 177 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: still looking into whether these differences disappear in adulthood. So 178 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: we got a lot of things going on there. We 179 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: got a lot of threads of social conditioning and culture 180 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: than we have science showing something in the brain is 181 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: going on. Um, And it is difficult to unpack all 182 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: of that stuff when it comes to why, alps we 183 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: do listen to women differently? Are there are these sex 184 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: differences and why and how we listen? Um? And that's 185 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: that's only a handful of the studies. We have some more, 186 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for a word 187 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So 188 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,599 Speaker 1: a few years ago, Carol Kinzie Goman researched gender differences 189 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: and communication skills and workplace environments across the United States, Canada, 190 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: and Europe. Respondents generally gave the same mish answers for 191 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses in themselves and each other. So, for women, 192 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: the strengths generally given were ability to read body language 193 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: and pick up nonverbal cues, good listening skills, effective display 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: of empathy, and the weakness is given were overly emotional, meandering, 195 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: won't get to the point, not authoritative right. So for men, 196 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: the strengths were commanding physical presence direct into the point interactions, 197 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: affective display of power, and the weaknesses were overly blunt 198 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: and direct, insensitive to audience reactions, and too confident in 199 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: own opinion. So those are some pretty big differences, and 200 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them do fall along stereotypical gender lines 201 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: gender performative lines. The study broke down communication styles into warmth, 202 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: so things like caring, likability, empathy, and authority, credibility, status 203 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: and power. According to the findings women are better at 204 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: the warmth part and men at the authority part. And 205 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, Maybe better isn't the right word. 206 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: It could be that due to socialization and historical power structures, 207 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: that's where women were allowed to excel and that's where 208 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: men were allowed to excel. Again, it's really hard to 209 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: to unpack untangle all of this. Anyway, The study found 210 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: that women are better at collaborative environments at dialogue, while 211 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: men are better at the monologue. Here's a quote from 212 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: the study um which was reported on at Forbes. Women 213 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: display more warm body language cues. They are more likely 214 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: to focus on those who are speaking by orienting head 215 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: and torso to face participants. They leaned forward, smiles, synchronize 216 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: their movements with others, not until their heads the universal 217 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: signal of listening literally giving someone your ear. Men said 218 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: more status signals through an array of dominant behaviors such 219 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: as side to side, headshaking, anger, and discussed expressions. They 220 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: stand tall, are they sprawl sitting with their legs spread, 221 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: are widely crossed, their materials spread out on a conference table, 222 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: and their arms stretched out on the back of a chair. 223 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: M So this article went on to catalog the general 224 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: differences in body language between men and women. For men, 225 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: not in usually means I agree, whereas for women it 226 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: can mean either I agree, or I'm listening to you, 227 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: or as an encouragement to the speaker to keep going. 228 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: It also found that men talk more in meetings than women. Surprise, Yeah, well, 229 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about that too, because I find 230 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: it interesting that in our mainstream stereotype of women, it's 231 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: it's like they talk more than men. You've got your 232 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: chatty Cathy's I can't get them to stop, and oh no, 233 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: she's on the phone. It's all over. I know. My 234 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: mom was a frequent target of these kinds of comments, 235 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: and when I got older and I would talk to 236 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: her about that, oftentimes it's she wanted the conversation to end, 237 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: but did Usually dude in the picture was just overstand, 238 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: like I have five ambles, I think, and was just 239 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: talking away at her. And yet she was the one 240 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: who's getting made fun of, and not that we should 241 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: be making fun of people who want to talk, but 242 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: she was the one that was getting picked on for 243 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: being chatty, even though she probably just like yeah, yes, 244 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: encouraging exactly. Um and research does not bear out that 245 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: women are the big talkers at all. Some researchers found 246 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: that in most situations, men dominate seventy of speaking time. 247 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: Women are more likely to be interrupted than men on 248 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: a number which goes up when more men are present. 249 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: But research has also found that even though women are 250 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: speaking last, people perceive that they speak more than they do. 251 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: So I feel like this is another way to minimize women, 252 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: To encourage women to stay quiet, because otherwise you're talking 253 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: too much and people are gonna laugh at you. Now again, 254 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: this this is a very complex thing that we're talking 255 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: about with a lot going on. These are generalizations. Um, 256 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: always more researchers need, more sciences needed. Uh. I will 257 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: say women, and we've talked about this before, they do 258 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: typically have more social relationships, So I can understand perhaps 259 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: where that stereotype came from in terms of women just 260 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: have more people to talk to generally. Um, but yeah, 261 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: and I'm probably most likely to reach out. Yes, Yes, 262 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: So a lot of advice out there in the business 263 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: realm to be more sort of lean in, put the 264 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: responsibility on women to adapt to masculalized environment and that bossy, 265 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: bitchy fallback is waiting right there in the wings to 266 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: come on out right. So the advice feels like it's 267 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: telling women to be more like men. But then when 268 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: you do that, then you're called these terms. You're not 269 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: doing this enough, but when you do it, you're doing 270 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: too much exactly. And also it is sort of implying 271 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: that this masculine environment is the right one and that 272 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: women should change to fit into that instead of maybe 273 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: we should all be listening more right, Yes, yes, and 274 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: we do have some some more tips around that. But 275 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: first we have one more quick break for word from 276 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So I 277 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: was reading an article in the New York Times when 278 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: researching this are, written by Dr pabolis Um, and in 279 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: it she wrote about what she called feminist listening, which 280 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: I thought was an interesting term, and she described women, 281 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: particularly white women, not engaging in feminist listening when women, 282 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: for example, we're warning of Trump's sexist, racist, abusive behavior. 283 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: All right, And of course everything we've talked about could 284 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: further be broken down to the intersectional issues. How do 285 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: we listen or not to women of color, to non 286 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: binary pos, to the l g b t Q plus individuals, 287 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: And we do have a lot of stereotypes that hang 288 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: ups around voices, which is something we've talked about and 289 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: again needs to be probably a bigger episode in itself 290 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: to revisit. Yes, absolutely. If you google feminist listening, by 291 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: the way, most of the top results are either listen 292 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: to women, Okay, something about reframing how we construct studies. 293 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: I actually found this really fascinating. So they in this 294 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: particular study I'm thinking of, they were describing how we 295 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: need to change how we listen to participants in studies, UM, 296 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: examining gaps in research and why those gaps exist. And 297 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: then um, words that don't exist. We need to think 298 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: about words that don't exist around the experiences of women 299 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: and other marginalized groups. So a lot of times when 300 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: we people conduct these studies, they'll edit. Uh. So if 301 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: you're saying a lot of you know, our uh filler words, 302 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: that maybe those words actually point to something else and 303 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be cutting them, we should be documenting why 304 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: they're there, which I thought was really interesting. Um. And 305 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: another result I got a lot of when I typed 306 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: in feminist listening was analy analytical listening to music with 307 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: a feminist and queer perspective. It really really does, and 308 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: apparently some colleges have programs that do this. I thought 309 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: that was pretty pretty neat. One thing I really want 310 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: for us as a podcast is to one day get 311 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: our show transcribed. And this is something that we used 312 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: to do, but the budget for it unfortunately got cut. Um. 313 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: It was so important to me that for a while, 314 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: I did it myself until I didn't have the bandwidth 315 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: to do it anymore. But I really really want to 316 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: bring that back, and I'm hoping that we can someday. Right. So, 317 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: there are some tips for anyone looking to be a 318 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: better listener, which I hope we all are doing so 319 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: um and a couple of easy steps you can take. One. 320 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: Stop talking and stop planning the next thing you're going 321 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: to say. Be in that moment, Listen to what is 322 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: being said to you, Ask meaningful questions, Ask questions pertaining 323 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: to what you just heard. Um. Maintain eye contact. Of 324 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: course that could be a cultural thing, by the way, 325 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: so if you don't feel comfortable with that, that's okay, 326 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: but it can't help you. At least see their face, 327 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: get their face when they're talking to you. It will help. Yeah, 328 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: being present and giving feedback is a really good one. 329 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: Being open minded, Like, don't immediately judge what someone is 330 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: saying to you, wait till they finish their thoughts and 331 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: then consider it, think about it, ask follow up questions. Um, 332 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: don't interrupt, practice empathy, and if you notice someone hasn't spoken, 333 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: check in, give them a platform. And I know in 334 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: terms of listening and in business context. Another one I 335 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: saw a lot, and I know we've probably all heard 336 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: this is make sure credit is going to where it 337 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: should go to say that person's name. That's a great idea, 338 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: Samantha had. That's a great idea. Yeah, I think that's 339 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: really important right now because there's been a big kafuffle, 340 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: I guess inside of Twitter verse. I've been stuck in 341 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: the Potter rush for a minute, um about people not 342 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: giving credit to people of color, women of college, specifically 343 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: black women specifically, And we need to remember that is 344 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: a rature and it is very very dangerous, especially today 345 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: in this time point when which we see there's a 346 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: lot of history trying to be rewritten and we need 347 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: to acknowledge where it comes from and why they should 348 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: be credited. Absolutely absolutely, UM. And then if for anybody 349 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: in your life, that maybe has any kind of difficulty 350 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 1: hearing or hearing loss, just you know, check in and 351 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: say what can I where can I help you? Where 352 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: can I minimize for v And again my my hearing, 353 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: I'm very privileged. It's still I got pretty good in 354 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: one ear. Um. It really is just like beyond that side, right, Yeah, 355 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: that's all um. So for sure, I would love to 356 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: return to this. Would love to delve into some of 357 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: these specific issues more in the future, but for now 358 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: it's sort of an overview some big ideas, but definitely 359 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: a ly would like to revisit. And I actually wanted 360 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: to read a listener mail we got before we end, 361 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: this one from Donica. Donica wrote, I have a great 362 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: fan fixed suggestion for you, particularly Annie as hello hello 363 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: fan fiction and this menty listeners. It's an alternative universe 364 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: retelling of Harry Potter, written book by book, considering what 365 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: the series would have been if James and Lily had 366 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: survived the night of Baltimore's attack. This is a project 367 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: my best friend Chase has been working on for years. 368 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: Is super well written. In particularly love it because Chase 369 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: is writing in such a way that acknowledges rolling shortcomings 370 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: in the works and improves upon them. She actually deals 371 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: with and addresses the inherent racism in the visiting world 372 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: against Centaur's house helves, goblins, et cetera. And when characters 373 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: are queer, she actually writes in the text that they 374 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: are queer. It's such a wonderful thing that my bestie 375 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: has poured her heart and soul into. If you two 376 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: or anyone is looking to reread Harry Potter during these 377 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: isolated times, maybe consider Chase's version and instead of supporting 378 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: transphobic rolling. Plus, you don't need to worry about owning 379 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: the books, as Chase's works are all accessible for free 380 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: online at archive of her own and her user page 381 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: Aiden Chase, and on Tumblr and Twitter at HP everyone lives. 382 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: Just googling HP, everyone lives a you will take you 383 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: right to it as well. She's currently about halfway through 384 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: publishing The Half Flood Prince, so there's a lot of 385 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: content to read. I think a lot of the listeners 386 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: would enjoy it, and the Fick deserves way more notoriety 387 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: than it has. Okay, first of all, I stand any 388 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: friend who goes out there and rallies behind them. What 389 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: I love this. I love everything about this I do too, 390 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: and um, I'm very excited to check this out. I've 391 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: got to say, like being on book six, that's impressive, right, 392 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: she must be for a long time, so impressive, very 393 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: very excited. Fan fiction is probably like the number one 394 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: thing going. I have read and written so much fan fiction. Uh. 395 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: I actually joke that I would be very embarrassed at 396 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: my internet history right now. But you know what, no shame, 397 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: no shame. Um. And and please please, we're happy to 398 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: shout things out like any entertainment that you think our 399 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: audience would enjoy, we would enjoy send it our way. 400 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: I know we're all looking for more more things to consume, 401 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: and we're so happy to to receive those messages and 402 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: share them. And just so you know, we are going 403 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: to do another viewing party. I know a few people 404 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: have asked because they missed this one. Although the craft 405 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: was it was pretty a banger start. Um, so we'll 406 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: be doing this again and we had a good time. 407 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 1: It was very limited, but it was still fun. So 408 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: we will be doing that again because we will be 409 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: maintaining at home still, so I look for that as well. 410 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: And again, yeah, give us all of your recommendations because 411 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: we have some time we do, and we could share 412 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: that with everybody. We could have like a big sminthy 413 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: We should, We absolutely should, and for sure send in 414 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: your recommendations for our next movie that we should watch, 415 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: um a book that we should read in the meantime. 416 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 1: Brings us to the end of this episode. If you 417 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: would like to email us, we would love to hear 418 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: from you. Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at 419 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can also find us 420 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, or on Instagram and 421 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our 422 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening. 423 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You is a protection of i 424 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: heeart Radio. For more podcast from i heeart Radio, check 425 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 426 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite ship.