WEBVTT - TikTok’s Algorithm to Be Secured by Oracle in Trump-Backed Deal 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:10.600 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.600 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.880 Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.080 Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.560 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:25.080 All right, let's talk tech. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:26.640 There's a lot going on out there. I want to see. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.360 I'm doing this for John Tucker. He's a big TikTok 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.000 per person here, and he's really interested to see what's 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:33.720 going to be happening at this what's his handle with 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:34.320 what you. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.800 Love those thirty second videos about really stupid stuff. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.639 Thinks on rumbas, Right, kats. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:42.360 Gotta have it. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:44.920 That's why when we talk about cats and roomors, we 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.599 talk to our senior technology analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, man 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.320 Deep sing On, Rona Mandeeps here in our studio on 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.120 a Rocks in our Chicago bureau. Let's just talk Mandeep, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.320 just what's the latest on TikTok here? Because I'm seeing 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.240 some big private equity guys might be involved, some big 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.640 tech names may be involved. What's going on here with TikTok? 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.520 Yes, I think the White House is definitely keen to 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.679 get a deal done. And as you said, there are 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:18.120 multiple parties involved. Oracle is the publicly traded entity that's 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.560 front end center in terms of being the lead company 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:27.600 that will be owning TikTok along with these other private investors. 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.720 And look, at the end of the day, it's clear 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.080 the algorithm would be rewritten or they would be licensing it. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.440 That is, that was a. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:40.679 Sticking point all along. So Oracle already has the data 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.520 for TikTok in their data centers, so that part is 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.120 already sorted out, and it looks like there will be 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.480 a deal done. I mean, the more private investors are involved, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.040 it kind of makes it hard who will determine the 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.920 stratity in this age of AI, given all these companies 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:03.040 are focused on and LLLM, so who would call the 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.880 shots in terms of what the future TikTok will look like. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.160 But at least it will be owned by US entity 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.600 and private investors based in US. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.320 And Oracle is going to play a key role, a 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:17.680 big role in operating everything, including retraining a copy of 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.840 the algorithm that the US based TikTok would lease from 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.120 Byteedance an rag. I mean, we knew that that was 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.000 kind of in the works from the get go. But 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:32.600 what's surprising me today is some CEO announcements from Oracle 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.360 Saffracats is being succeeded by two cocos. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.160 Is this news a surprise. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.440 Well, it's a surprise, yes, But at the same time, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.840 I think Oracles in a very strong position right now. 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.120 You know, I would say, go back several years. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.880 I think somewhere around twenty fourteen, Larry Ellison had appointed 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.160 Safa and Mark Hurd as the co CEOs, But I 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.200 think Safra has been there for a very long period 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.120 of time. Now they're basically saying they're going to move 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.480 on the leadership to much younger people. And one of 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.200 them actually is the leader who runs OCI or Oracle 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.560 cloud infrastructure, which is behind the TikTok deal, as well 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.480 as all the other AI deals that we're seeing right now. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.240 Googles and facebooks of the world and the competitors to TikTok. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.720 I mean, this is no foregone conclusion that this thing's 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.560 going to work, is it? Because I'm still I'm a 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.560 TikTok user. I still got to, I guess, get a 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.679 new map port all my stuff and do I mean 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:29.880 we're not sure this scene going to work. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:30.280 Is it? 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:30.680 It is? 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:35.360 And also a lot of the creators have moved to 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:40.080 these alternative platforms given this unsanatory has been there for 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.160 you know, almost more than a year now. So who's 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:48.840 benefiting I mean your YouTube, Instagram to an extend Snapchat. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.320 But to my mind, the whole focus has shifted from 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.560 you know, which who has the best recommendation algorithm to 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.520 who can have the best AI based on the data 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.040 they have? So look at you know. What open ai 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.440 has done is used all the open Internet data. What 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.600 Meta is trying to do with their superintelligence is use 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.760 their social network data to come up with a better 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.039 large anglid model. That's what Gemini is doing, and I 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.520 think that's where the smaller players have a disadvantage. Or Snapchat, 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.440 even though it may gain some engagement, it just doesn't 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.279 have the infrastructure to train their own large anglid model 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.080 based on the data they have. That's what you would 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.800 hope to see with a company like TikTok Us that 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.760 they focus on training their own large anglid model based 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.719 on the video data that they have. But I doubt 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.920 when you have got so many players involved, that's never 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.200 good for you know, a long term strategy where you 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.960 focus on building a product first and then monetizing. It 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.919 would be more about making the company profitable and making 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.640 sure they have a return on investment for what they're doing. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.960 I mean, this is going to be a complicated transaction 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.160 because the law mandates this stick to sale to US owners, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.279 but it forbids byttance from any operational role, including with software. Meantime, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.760 China's law X bars the export of sensitive technology like 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.200 the algorithms. So I guess, anach My question to you 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.800 is is it not only technically feasible to fully disentangle 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:21.280 TikTok from bytans, but will US lawmakers accept whatever convoluted 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:22.320 plan has come up here? 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:24.960 You know, I think that has been very clear. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.920 I mean, I imagine if you go back, you know, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.200 back in January, we're supposed to be shut down, but 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:30.520 people have been operating it. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.000 Oracle has been hosting it. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.359 So I think Oracle is going to go out and 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.279 say we have control over the data, we have control 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:38.240 over the algorithm. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.040 And I think that may let's let's hope that. 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.880 Will pacify all the regulators and the uh, you know, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.119 the Congress out there. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.480 So many. Do we know who the CEO USA is 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:51.960 going to be, who the CFO is going to be, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:52.640 what the board? 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:53.440 Oh good question. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:54.400 I mean we don't know any of that. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.760 No, no, I mean the transaction isn't even finalized. We're 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.599 still hearing rumors about who the private investors are going 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.760 to be, and that list seems to be growing, you know, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.360 beyond the private equity guys. Now it's a Rupert Murdoch. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.480 And you know, it was interesting to hear their names. Okay, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.440 but look, I mean it will be somebody seasoned. My 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.160 only hunt here is they may be too focused on 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.479 you know, the algorithm where the bigger opportunity lies in 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.080 the LM. And you know how a video LLLM could 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.200 be gamescha AI everything. 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:29.880 Well, you know we always have to bring everything back 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:30.240 to AI. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.760 Yeah, he knows what get they clicks, he knows what's 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.480 going on. We trained them. Well, all right, just on 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.080 what's the thirty second stuff. What's the big thing you're 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:39.320 looking at this week? 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.000 This week it's going to be Apple and how the 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.279 pro is going to be doing in the market. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:45.880 Stay with us. 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:47.599 More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:48.320 Up after this. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.680 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.839 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarplay and Android 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.160 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.360 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.800 I swear this whole healthcare discussion used to be more 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.480 than just obesity drugs. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.360 I know, but it feels like that's the most exciting 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.440 part of the healthcare world, the pharmer world. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.880 Yes, I don't know. I mean Sampa's Ellie Joints is here. 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.240 He's a director of research for Global Industries. He's also 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.040 like the best healthcare guy over there in Europe, is 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.600 based in London, one of the leaders there, and we 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:26.600 talked to him all the time. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:27.280 Sam. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.280 It looks like again Pfizer here spending four point nine 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.480 billion dollars for this obesity startups. Met Sarah, what can 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.679 you tell us about? Met Sarah? 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:38.760 Yeah, well how are you doing so? 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:39.840 And Scarlett? 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:44.800 Nice to have you both again taking about this topic. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.679 Thank you, topic of obesity. So look, just to answer 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.480 your your opening point, obesity is one of the key 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:59.239 causes of a whole variety of diseases cardiovascular, cancer, mental health. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.920 So we can treat it if we can prevent it, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.360 if we can reduce it, it's brilliant for the entirety of society. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.160 Here there is a deal where I thinks they've got 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.000 something that's going to be able to give them a 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.360 chance at playing in this very important area and very 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.360 massive market. Right. So the drugs are interesting, they're relatively 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.119 early stage. We're looking to see with some new data 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.600 coming up, whether some of the promise that we've seen 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.560 earlier for these drugs that the company has, which the 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.800 latest stage one is still in phase two. They need 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.319 to start the phase three in twenty twenty six, whether 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.520 they are as competitive as they looked in the earlier trials. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.200 There were some questions on efficacy less so than side 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.439 effect profile, So we'll have to wait and see how 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:44.200 that pans out. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.560 Sam, can you get into the science a little bit 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.960 and maybe you know, keep it basic for folks like 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.240 Paul and me, Because Metzara is described as the next 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.600 generation hopeful in obesities. They use these long acting amlin 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.200 analogs versus GLP one, and I'm wondering for people who 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.840 might behold out for matsera's treatment what that means versus 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.800 the currently available zep bound or we goo v. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:08.280 Yeah. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.200 Yeah, So the latest stage drug is very similar to 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:17.480 we go vy and similar to zepetite or zip bound, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.720 and the anlin drug is a little bit early stage. 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:25.360 Earlier stage, there are companies were more advanced drugs in 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.200 that world, but they all kind of feed into the 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.400 same pathway, which is the pathway that talks between your 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.719 food intake and your satiety centers in your brain and 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.080 your insulin centers in your pancreas it tries to balance 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.240 of eaten enough, let's stop eating now, and let's release 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.920 some insulin make it more sensitive so that we can 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.720 deal with the onslaughter sugar that comes into our blood. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.199 That's where they are is that's central to that space. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.719 There's cells in the gut that release look on like 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.000 GLP ones, gk on like peptize the cells in other 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.440 parts of the body who are responding to it. So 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.800 that's where these things sit, and amulin is just one 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.600 of those agents in the middle of it. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.080 SA I'm just kind of stepping back on his GLP 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.640 one drugs in general, there's a certain level of efficacy today, 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.920 there's a certain level of say, side effect, whether it's 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.679 a large or something else today. Is there a room 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.120 for improvement on both efficacy and side effects going forward 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:24.960 with these drugs? 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.240 Yeah, I mean with it's the balance that's the most importantacy. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:30.760 I think we're pretty much there. I mean, you know, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.520 there are folks that we know that go on a 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.160 drug for a week or two and they lose four 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.760 or five kilograms. That's fine. You don't want to lose 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.719 much faster than that, because I don't think it's particularly 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.360 healthy if you lose weight at a much higher speed. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.040 And also you don't want to get much lighter than 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.520 a aty kilo or ninety kilo or seventy five kilograms, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.480 depending on your size. So the key is how do 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.640 you get there? If you get there by having lots 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.679 of side effects in your probability of staying on the 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.640 drug is lower, but we want you to stay on 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.600 the drug. So it's a very very tight balance. And 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.600 then of course you have to figure out what am 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.280 I happy taking a weekly injection, which I think a 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.480 lot of people are not. Don't have a problem with it, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.800 But what if Mitzra's writing can push it to once monthly. 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.200 What if some of the other competitors coming along with 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.319 once every three months now. Those are things that we 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.240 have to wait and see how the data shows in 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.080 terms of that balance. Have just referred to Sam. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.360 We mentioned earlier the headline that the White House now 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.160 says doctors may be exempt from H one B visa 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.400 fees that were just an ounce of one hundred thousand dollars. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.839 Obviously that has huge ramifications for the medical industry. What 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.640 does it mean potentially the one hundred thousand dollars fee 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.680 for H one B visas for the pharma and the 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.439 biotech industry in the US. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:48.680 Yeah, I think any industry that requires skilled workers. I 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.520 think the sector, the sector that's most exposed is one 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.800 that you guys probably have already talked about, is the 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.680 tech industry. Right in terms of pharma biotech. I think 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:04.280 the US has really good existing talent. The point is, though, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.679 that sometimes a particular talent is based somewhere else. You 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.680 just want that particular person. So why do you have 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.600 to go through this process if they really are the 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.280 one person who knows this particular disease area so well, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.920 and does really one or two people at that level 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.599 make a difference, Especially in a sector where US is 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.200 already a leader, You're not really bringing in people to 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.839 compete with the US talent. So that's something that I 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.880 think is important to remember. Doctors, of course, you know 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.200 the country that doesn't like Europe, many countries in Europe 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.960 on producing enough doctors. UK especially, you need to allow. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.320 That stay with us. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.800 More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.000 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.160 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.480 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.160 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.720 Let's go down to Mark German. He's our go to 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.959 tech gadget guy for more on Aura because we're just 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.439 talking about how Aura's the company that owns Aura that 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.640 how Wellness Ring is now an eleven billion dollar company 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.600 with its latest capital raise. Mark, this is a finish 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.320 company and it needed to raise more money, didn't it. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.400 Definitely they want to scale production, they want to scale 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.319 r Indeed, they want to move into new regions, they 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.439 want to get into new retail stores, they want to 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.720 add new software features. So they're looking to grow quickly. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.640 This nearly eleven billion dollar valuation. This is a you know, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.000 a pretty specific hardware company. They really make one thing, 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.560 and if you look at their market cap now after 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.160 that raise, you compare it to other companies that are 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.800 known for really one type of hardware product Peloton, Eye, Robot, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.800 Sonos bos Aura is now worth more than all of 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.000 them combined, which is pretty crazy to think about. So 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.680 so far, this looks to be a success story. It's 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.520 not a very old company, but it's a company doing 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.920 effective things and they're clearly building a product that people like. 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.720 They've sold three million units in the last fourteen fifteen 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.280 months or so. They've sold five and a half million 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.360 rings to date. They're due to cross one billion in 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.160 revenue in twenty five, a billion and a half in 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.200 twenty six. They did five hundred million in twenty four 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.840 so they seem to be growing quite nicely. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.040 I don't know, not being into the ring fit ring 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:34.960 business myself. 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.920 Fitring, I like that fit ring. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:37.640 I mean, this. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.880 Seems like something that your friends in Cooper Tina could 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.880 come out with tomorrow and copycat. How do you think 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.720 about the competitive landscape. 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.560 Yeah, the competitive landscape is interesting. There's a few smaller 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.920 players that are also doing smart rings. Samsung rolled out 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.600 what they call the Galaxy Ring last year, and for Samsung, 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.640 who's actually been a dud, the functionality is just not 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.360 on par with Aura. What Aura as is a very 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.720 strong brand, They have very strong functionality, and they have 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.680 that big first mover advantage. But you're right, if Apple 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.040 comes out with the ring, They're gonna eat Aura's lunch. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.000 You know. Aura's perspective is that they have this gigantic 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:23.720 and tried and true in legal proceedings patent portfolio, and 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.040 so they feel that if Apple were to come out 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.160 with a ring, or another company were to really hit 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.080 the nail on the head with a ring, that they 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.840 would be able to defend their patents. And they've shown 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.120 to be able to do that. They have some cases 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.359 in front of the International Trade Commission and other organizations 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.960 right now for some of the other competitors. So we'll 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.920 see what happens. I don't anticipate Apple coming out with 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:51.120 a ring anytime soon. I will say that this ten 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.080 billion dollar valuation is a little bit of a double 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.680 edged sword. On one hand, that's amazing for the company. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.120 On the other hand, it puts them in territory where 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.360 they're probably not going to be acquired or bought in, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.480 which would spur another company like Apple if they wanted 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.760 to ring develop one versus by them. And definitely they're 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.280 going to have to make a decision in the next 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.960 couple of years whether they're going to go public via 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.040 an IPO spat or if they're going to stay private. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:17.080 Stay with us. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.600 More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.360 weekdays at ten am easterne on Apple, Cocklay and Android 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.680 Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.800 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.240 Let's go back to a story that we were talking 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.800 about earlier, which is the CEO change over at T Mobile. 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.240 We just spoke earlier with the outgoing CEO and the 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.160 incoming CEO with our Bloomberg Television colleagues Caroline Hyde and 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.440 Ed Ludlow, and so now we want to bring in 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.560 our Bloomberg Intelligence expert, John Butler, the senior telecom analyst 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.640 for more on this side. John, was this a surprise? 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:04.480 This changeover all? This was incredibly well broadcast. Shriney has 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.760 been hitting the conference circuit, so at this time of year, 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.800 all the major investment banks hold these conferences, and he's 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.240 been in almost everyone sort of out there telling the 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.120 T Mobiles story. And in my mind it answers one 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.439 of two questions. Right with any incoming CEO, You're like, 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.760 can they manage the company effectively? And can they manage 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.720 the stock effectively? Can they get that narrative out? It's 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.800 been a good story and he is really good at that. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.719 So he's answered the second question and I think in 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.320 some ways he's answered the first as well. 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.200 Talk to us about the wireless business these days. It's 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.840 just a brutally competitive business. Just give us the lay 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:50.240 of the land there between AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:51.800 and anybody else who might be out there. 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.240 I mean, the big three are still dominant. Paul and 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:58.439 T Mobile has executed beautifully over the past few years. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.720 You know, they've done a very good of sort of 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:06.320 securing the lead in terms of subscriber growth by you know, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:12.800 marketing on this hip counterculture brand image. They continue to be, 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.320 I think, having an outsized impact on consumers. When you 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.720 think a wireless it really is a consumer retail business. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.399 They all have thousands of stores, they advertise on the 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.479 Super Bowl, they have giveaways, and I think T Mobile 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.720 more than most really does that well. And I think 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.320 the Big three, because of their scale set, it sort 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.960 of sets this sort of wide mode for any newcomers 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.280 that want to come in. So Mobile as number two 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.080 in the industry, I think is going to remain firmly 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.120 in that place, if not move into the number one 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.920 position over the next several years. Number one Zon Number 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.080 one is Verizon still, so I'm a Verizon person. 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.960 I am too, But I just went to Italy and 0:18:58.160 --> 0:18:59.880 how did what did you do for your phone needs? 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.800 Fine, it's just I have a plan that just ports 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.280 over to an international. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.520 Okay, because as do uh huh. 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:07.439 All of my offspring that's the only thing that I 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:08.080 still pay for. 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.119 Yes, no one, no one wants to give that up. 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.280 Why pay for your own clone service when dad will 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.760 pay for it. I switched over to T Mobile because 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.359 of the giveaways, yes, because of the free iPhone last cycle, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.760 and also because you get free data and free international 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.720 texting when you're overseas up to five gigabytes, so that 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.199 means I never have to buy an international data pison shopping. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.320 That is the single biggest hook I hear. So when 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:34.920 people come to me and they're like, I'm a T 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.359 mobile subscriber. They have all these giveaways and they have 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:39.720 international call. 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:41.960 That makes a big difference because when I was on 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:43.760 AT and T, I was paying ten dollars a day 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:44.520 and that adds. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.240 Up really quickly, does it really? 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:46.439 You know? 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.199 And then only one person in the family can get 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:49.560 it because you know, not everyone's going to. 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.800 Get it right, and they have four offspring plus an 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:52.879 next wife, you're still paying for it. 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:53.560 Well, there you go. 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:56.960 Charlie Pellett is on the t MO, but he he 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:58.240 always tries to sell me. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.480 To Charlie also knows the great deal. Well that's the 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:01.400 secret here at Bloomberg. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.720 Charlie's traveling the strange parts of the world where he 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.240 probably needs that kind of stuff. So what's the future 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.120 of wireless in this country? Is it just our poop 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.040 growth average revenue per user? And is that kind of 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.280 the story for that is So. 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.600 That is a great question, that is what's driving growth 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.000 now for a telco you's sort of run out of 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.520