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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's talk tech.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot going on out there. I want to see.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing this for John Tucker. He's a big TikTok

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Speaker 3: per person here, and he's really interested to see what's

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Speaker 3: going to be happening at this what's his handle with

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Speaker 3: what you.

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Speaker 4: Love those thirty second videos about really stupid stuff.

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Speaker 5: Thinks on rumbas, Right, kats.

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Speaker 2: Gotta have it.

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Speaker 3: That's why when we talk about cats and roomors, we

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Speaker 3: talk to our senior technology analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, man

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Speaker 3: Deep sing On, Rona Mandeeps here in our studio on

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Speaker 3: a Rocks in our Chicago bureau. Let's just talk Mandeep,

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Speaker 3: just what's the latest on TikTok here? Because I'm seeing

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Speaker 3: some big private equity guys might be involved, some big

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Speaker 3: tech names may be involved. What's going on here with TikTok?

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think the White House is definitely keen to

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Speaker 6: get a deal done. And as you said, there are

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Speaker 6: multiple parties involved. Oracle is the publicly traded entity that's

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Speaker 6: front end center in terms of being the lead company

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Speaker 6: that will be owning TikTok along with these other private investors.

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Speaker 6: And look, at the end of the day, it's clear

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Speaker 6: the algorithm would be rewritten or they would be licensing it.

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Speaker 5: That is, that was a.

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Speaker 6: Sticking point all along. So Oracle already has the data

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Speaker 6: for TikTok in their data centers, so that part is

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Speaker 6: already sorted out, and it looks like there will be

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Speaker 6: a deal done. I mean, the more private investors are involved,

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Speaker 6: it kind of makes it hard who will determine the

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Speaker 6: stratity in this age of AI, given all these companies

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Speaker 6: are focused on and LLLM, so who would call the

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Speaker 6: shots in terms of what the future TikTok will look like.

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Speaker 6: But at least it will be owned by US entity

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Speaker 6: and private investors based in US.

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Speaker 5: And Oracle is going to play a key role, a

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Speaker 5: big role in operating everything, including retraining a copy of

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Speaker 5: the algorithm that the US based TikTok would lease from

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Speaker 5: Byteedance an rag. I mean, we knew that that was

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Speaker 5: kind of in the works from the get go. But

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Speaker 5: what's surprising me today is some CEO announcements from Oracle

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Speaker 5: Saffracats is being succeeded by two cocos.

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Speaker 4: Is this news a surprise.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's a surprise, yes, But at the same time,

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Speaker 7: I think Oracles in a very strong position right now.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would say, go back several years.

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Speaker 7: I think somewhere around twenty fourteen, Larry Ellison had appointed

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Speaker 7: Safa and Mark Hurd as the co CEOs, But I

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Speaker 7: think Safra has been there for a very long period

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Speaker 7: of time. Now they're basically saying they're going to move

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Speaker 7: on the leadership to much younger people. And one of

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Speaker 7: them actually is the leader who runs OCI or Oracle

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Speaker 7: cloud infrastructure, which is behind the TikTok deal, as well

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Speaker 7: as all the other AI deals that we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 3: Googles and facebooks of the world and the competitors to TikTok.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is no foregone conclusion that this thing's

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Speaker 3: going to work, is it? Because I'm still I'm a

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Speaker 3: TikTok user. I still got to, I guess, get a

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Speaker 3: new map port all my stuff and do I mean

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Speaker 3: we're not sure this scene going to work.

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Speaker 6: Is it?

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Speaker 8: It is?

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Speaker 6: And also a lot of the creators have moved to

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Speaker 6: these alternative platforms given this unsanatory has been there for

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Speaker 6: you know, almost more than a year now. So who's

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Speaker 6: benefiting I mean your YouTube, Instagram to an extend Snapchat.

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Speaker 6: But to my mind, the whole focus has shifted from

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Speaker 6: you know, which who has the best recommendation algorithm to

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Speaker 6: who can have the best AI based on the data

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Speaker 6: they have? So look at you know. What open ai

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Speaker 6: has done is used all the open Internet data. What

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Speaker 6: Meta is trying to do with their superintelligence is use

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Speaker 6: their social network data to come up with a better

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Speaker 6: large anglid model. That's what Gemini is doing, and I

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Speaker 6: think that's where the smaller players have a disadvantage. Or Snapchat,

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Speaker 6: even though it may gain some engagement, it just doesn't

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Speaker 6: have the infrastructure to train their own large anglid model

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Speaker 6: based on the data they have. That's what you would

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Speaker 6: hope to see with a company like TikTok Us that

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Speaker 6: they focus on training their own large anglid model based

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Speaker 6: on the video data that they have. But I doubt

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Speaker 6: when you have got so many players involved, that's never

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Speaker 6: good for you know, a long term strategy where you

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Speaker 6: focus on building a product first and then monetizing. It

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Speaker 6: would be more about making the company profitable and making

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Speaker 6: sure they have a return on investment for what they're doing.

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Speaker 5: I mean, this is going to be a complicated transaction

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Speaker 5: because the law mandates this stick to sale to US owners,

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Speaker 5: but it forbids byttance from any operational role, including with software. Meantime,

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Speaker 5: China's law X bars the export of sensitive technology like

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Speaker 5: the algorithms. So I guess, anach My question to you

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Speaker 5: is is it not only technically feasible to fully disentangle

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Speaker 5: TikTok from bytans, but will US lawmakers accept whatever convoluted

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Speaker 5: plan has come up here?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think that has been very clear.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I imagine if you go back, you know,

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Speaker 7: back in January, we're supposed to be shut down, but

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Speaker 7: people have been operating it.

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Speaker 2: Oracle has been hosting it.

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Speaker 7: So I think Oracle is going to go out and

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Speaker 7: say we have control over the data, we have control

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Speaker 7: over the algorithm.

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Speaker 2: And I think that may let's let's hope that.

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Speaker 7: Will pacify all the regulators and the uh, you know,

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Speaker 7: the Congress out there.

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Speaker 3: So many. Do we know who the CEO USA is

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Speaker 3: going to be, who the CFO is going to be,

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Speaker 3: what the board?

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Speaker 5: Oh good question.

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Speaker 3: I mean we don't know any of that.

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Speaker 6: No, no, I mean the transaction isn't even finalized. We're

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Speaker 6: still hearing rumors about who the private investors are going

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Speaker 6: to be, and that list seems to be growing, you know,

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Speaker 6: beyond the private equity guys. Now it's a Rupert Murdoch.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it was interesting to hear their names. Okay,

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Speaker 6: but look, I mean it will be somebody seasoned. My

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Speaker 6: only hunt here is they may be too focused on

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Speaker 6: you know, the algorithm where the bigger opportunity lies in

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Speaker 6: the LM. And you know how a video LLLM could

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Speaker 6: be gamescha AI everything.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know we always have to bring everything back

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Speaker 5: to AI.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he knows what get they clicks, he knows what's

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Speaker 3: going on. We trained them. Well, all right, just on

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Speaker 3: what's the thirty second stuff. What's the big thing you're

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Speaker 3: looking at this week?

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Speaker 7: This week it's going to be Apple and how the

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Speaker 7: pro is going to be doing in the market.

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Speaker 1: Stay with us.

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Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming.

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Speaker 4: Up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarplay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: I swear this whole healthcare discussion used to be more

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Speaker 3: than just obesity drugs.

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Speaker 5: I know, but it feels like that's the most exciting

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Speaker 5: part of the healthcare world, the pharmer world.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know. I mean Sampa's Ellie Joints is here.

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Speaker 3: He's a director of research for Global Industries. He's also

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Speaker 3: like the best healthcare guy over there in Europe, is

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Speaker 3: based in London, one of the leaders there, and we

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Speaker 3: talked to him all the time.

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Speaker 2: Sam.

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Speaker 3: It looks like again Pfizer here spending four point nine

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Speaker 3: billion dollars for this obesity startups. Met Sarah, what can

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Speaker 3: you tell us about? Met Sarah?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, well how are you doing so?

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Speaker 2: And Scarlett?

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Speaker 8: Nice to have you both again taking about this topic.

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Speaker 8: Thank you, topic of obesity. So look, just to answer

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Speaker 8: your your opening point, obesity is one of the key

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Speaker 8: causes of a whole variety of diseases cardiovascular, cancer, mental health.

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Speaker 8: So we can treat it if we can prevent it,

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Speaker 8: if we can reduce it, it's brilliant for the entirety of society.

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Speaker 8: Here there is a deal where I thinks they've got

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Speaker 8: something that's going to be able to give them a

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Speaker 8: chance at playing in this very important area and very

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Speaker 8: massive market. Right. So the drugs are interesting, they're relatively

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Speaker 8: early stage. We're looking to see with some new data

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Speaker 8: coming up, whether some of the promise that we've seen

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Speaker 8: earlier for these drugs that the company has, which the

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Speaker 8: latest stage one is still in phase two. They need

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Speaker 8: to start the phase three in twenty twenty six, whether

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Speaker 8: they are as competitive as they looked in the earlier trials.

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Speaker 8: There were some questions on efficacy less so than side

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Speaker 8: effect profile, So we'll have to wait and see how

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Speaker 8: that pans out.

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Speaker 5: Sam, can you get into the science a little bit

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Speaker 5: and maybe you know, keep it basic for folks like

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Speaker 5: Paul and me, Because Metzara is described as the next

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Speaker 5: generation hopeful in obesities. They use these long acting amlin

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Speaker 5: analogs versus GLP one, and I'm wondering for people who

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Speaker 5: might behold out for matsera's treatment what that means versus

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Speaker 5: the currently available zep bound or we goo v.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So the latest stage drug is very similar to

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Speaker 8: we go vy and similar to zepetite or zip bound,

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Speaker 8: and the anlin drug is a little bit early stage.

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Speaker 8: Earlier stage, there are companies were more advanced drugs in

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Speaker 8: that world, but they all kind of feed into the

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Speaker 8: same pathway, which is the pathway that talks between your

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Speaker 8: food intake and your satiety centers in your brain and

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Speaker 8: your insulin centers in your pancreas it tries to balance

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Speaker 8: of eaten enough, let's stop eating now, and let's release

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Speaker 8: some insulin make it more sensitive so that we can

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Speaker 8: deal with the onslaughter sugar that comes into our blood.

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Speaker 8: That's where they are is that's central to that space.

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Speaker 8: There's cells in the gut that release look on like

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Speaker 8: GLP ones, gk on like peptize the cells in other

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Speaker 8: parts of the body who are responding to it. So

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Speaker 8: that's where these things sit, and amulin is just one

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Speaker 8: of those agents in the middle of it.

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Speaker 3: SA I'm just kind of stepping back on his GLP

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Speaker 3: one drugs in general, there's a certain level of efficacy today,

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Speaker 3: there's a certain level of say, side effect, whether it's

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Speaker 3: a large or something else today. Is there a room

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Speaker 3: for improvement on both efficacy and side effects going forward

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Speaker 3: with these drugs?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean with it's the balance that's the most importantacy.

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Speaker 8: I think we're pretty much there. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 8: there are folks that we know that go on a

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Speaker 8: drug for a week or two and they lose four

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Speaker 8: or five kilograms. That's fine. You don't want to lose

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Speaker 8: much faster than that, because I don't think it's particularly

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Speaker 8: healthy if you lose weight at a much higher speed.

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Speaker 8: And also you don't want to get much lighter than

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Speaker 8: a aty kilo or ninety kilo or seventy five kilograms,

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Speaker 8: depending on your size. So the key is how do

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Speaker 8: you get there? If you get there by having lots

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Speaker 8: of side effects in your probability of staying on the

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Speaker 8: drug is lower, but we want you to stay on

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Speaker 8: the drug. So it's a very very tight balance. And

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Speaker 8: then of course you have to figure out what am

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Speaker 8: I happy taking a weekly injection, which I think a

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Speaker 8: lot of people are not. Don't have a problem with it,

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Speaker 8: But what if Mitzra's writing can push it to once monthly.

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Speaker 8: What if some of the other competitors coming along with

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Speaker 8: once every three months now. Those are things that we

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Speaker 8: have to wait and see how the data shows in

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Speaker 8: terms of that balance. Have just referred to Sam.

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Speaker 5: We mentioned earlier the headline that the White House now

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Speaker 5: says doctors may be exempt from H one B visa

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Speaker 5: fees that were just an ounce of one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: Obviously that has huge ramifications for the medical industry. What

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Speaker 5: does it mean potentially the one hundred thousand dollars fee

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Speaker 5: for H one B visas for the pharma and the

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Speaker 5: biotech industry in the US.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think any industry that requires skilled workers. I

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Speaker 8: think the sector, the sector that's most exposed is one

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Speaker 8: that you guys probably have already talked about, is the

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Speaker 8: tech industry. Right in terms of pharma biotech. I think

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Speaker 8: the US has really good existing talent. The point is, though,

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Speaker 8: that sometimes a particular talent is based somewhere else. You

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Speaker 8: just want that particular person. So why do you have

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Speaker 8: to go through this process if they really are the

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Speaker 8: one person who knows this particular disease area so well,

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Speaker 8: and does really one or two people at that level

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Speaker 8: make a difference, Especially in a sector where US is

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Speaker 8: already a leader, You're not really bringing in people to

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Speaker 8: compete with the US talent. So that's something that I

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Speaker 8: think is important to remember. Doctors, of course, you know

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Speaker 8: the country that doesn't like Europe, many countries in Europe

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Speaker 8: on producing enough doctors. UK especially, you need to allow.

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Speaker 4: That stay with us.

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Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Let's go down to Mark German. He's our go to

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Speaker 5: tech gadget guy for more on Aura because we're just

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Speaker 5: talking about how Aura's the company that owns Aura that

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Speaker 5: how Wellness Ring is now an eleven billion dollar company

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Speaker 5: with its latest capital raise. Mark, this is a finish

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Speaker 5: company and it needed to raise more money, didn't it.

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Speaker 9: Definitely they want to scale production, they want to scale

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Speaker 9: r Indeed, they want to move into new regions, they

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Speaker 9: want to get into new retail stores, they want to

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Speaker 9: add new software features. So they're looking to grow quickly.

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Speaker 9: This nearly eleven billion dollar valuation. This is a you know,

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Speaker 9: a pretty specific hardware company. They really make one thing,

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Speaker 9: and if you look at their market cap now after

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Speaker 9: that raise, you compare it to other companies that are

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Speaker 9: known for really one type of hardware product Peloton, Eye, Robot,

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Speaker 9: Sonos bos Aura is now worth more than all of

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Speaker 9: them combined, which is pretty crazy to think about. So

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Speaker 9: so far, this looks to be a success story. It's

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Speaker 9: not a very old company, but it's a company doing

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Speaker 9: effective things and they're clearly building a product that people like.

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Speaker 9: They've sold three million units in the last fourteen fifteen

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Speaker 9: months or so. They've sold five and a half million

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Speaker 9: rings to date. They're due to cross one billion in

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Speaker 9: revenue in twenty five, a billion and a half in

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Speaker 9: twenty six. They did five hundred million in twenty four

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Speaker 9: so they seem to be growing quite nicely.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, not being into the ring fit ring

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Speaker 3: business myself.

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Speaker 5: Fitring, I like that fit ring.

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Speaker 8: I mean, this.

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Speaker 3: Seems like something that your friends in Cooper Tina could

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Speaker 3: come out with tomorrow and copycat. How do you think

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Speaker 3: about the competitive landscape.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, the competitive landscape is interesting. There's a few smaller

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Speaker 9: players that are also doing smart rings. Samsung rolled out

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Speaker 9: what they call the Galaxy Ring last year, and for Samsung,

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Speaker 9: who's actually been a dud, the functionality is just not

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Speaker 9: on par with Aura. What Aura as is a very

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Speaker 9: strong brand, They have very strong functionality, and they have

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Speaker 9: that big first mover advantage. But you're right, if Apple

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Speaker 9: comes out with the ring, They're gonna eat Aura's lunch.

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Speaker 9: You know. Aura's perspective is that they have this gigantic

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Speaker 9: and tried and true in legal proceedings patent portfolio, and

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Speaker 9: so they feel that if Apple were to come out

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Speaker 9: with a ring, or another company were to really hit

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Speaker 9: the nail on the head with a ring, that they

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Speaker 9: would be able to defend their patents. And they've shown

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Speaker 9: to be able to do that. They have some cases

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Speaker 9: in front of the International Trade Commission and other organizations

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Speaker 9: right now for some of the other competitors. So we'll

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Speaker 9: see what happens. I don't anticipate Apple coming out with

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Speaker 9: a ring anytime soon. I will say that this ten

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Speaker 9: billion dollar valuation is a little bit of a double

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Speaker 9: edged sword. On one hand, that's amazing for the company.

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Speaker 9: On the other hand, it puts them in territory where

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Speaker 9: they're probably not going to be acquired or bought in,

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Speaker 9: which would spur another company like Apple if they wanted

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Speaker 9: to ring develop one versus by them. And definitely they're

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Speaker 9: going to have to make a decision in the next

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Speaker 9: couple of years whether they're going to go public via

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Speaker 9: an IPO spat or if they're going to stay private.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us.

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Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am easterne on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Let's go back to a story that we were talking

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Speaker 5: about earlier, which is the CEO change over at T Mobile.

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Speaker 5: We just spoke earlier with the outgoing CEO and the

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Speaker 5: incoming CEO with our Bloomberg Television colleagues Caroline Hyde and

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Speaker 5: Ed Ludlow, and so now we want to bring in

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Speaker 5: our Bloomberg Intelligence expert, John Butler, the senior telecom analyst

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Speaker 5: for more on this side. John, was this a surprise?

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Speaker 4: This changeover all? This was incredibly well broadcast. Shriney has

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Speaker 4: been hitting the conference circuit, so at this time of year,

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Speaker 4: all the major investment banks hold these conferences, and he's

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Speaker 4: been in almost everyone sort of out there telling the

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Speaker 4: T Mobiles story. And in my mind it answers one

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Speaker 4: of two questions. Right with any incoming CEO, You're like,

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Speaker 4: can they manage the company effectively? And can they manage

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Speaker 4: the stock effectively? Can they get that narrative out? It's

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Speaker 4: been a good story and he is really good at that.

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Speaker 4: So he's answered the second question and I think in

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Speaker 4: some ways he's answered the first as well.

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Speaker 3: Talk to us about the wireless business these days. It's

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Speaker 3: just a brutally competitive business. Just give us the lay

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Speaker 3: of the land there between AT and T, Verizon, T Mobile,

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Speaker 3: and anybody else who might be out there.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the big three are still dominant. Paul and

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Speaker 4: T Mobile has executed beautifully over the past few years.

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Speaker 4: You know, they've done a very good of sort of

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Speaker 4: securing the lead in terms of subscriber growth by you know,

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Speaker 4: marketing on this hip counterculture brand image. They continue to be,

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Speaker 4: I think, having an outsized impact on consumers. When you

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Speaker 4: think a wireless it really is a consumer retail business.

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Speaker 4: They all have thousands of stores, they advertise on the

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Speaker 4: Super Bowl, they have giveaways, and I think T Mobile

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Speaker 4: more than most really does that well. And I think

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Speaker 4: the Big three, because of their scale set, it sort

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Speaker 4: of sets this sort of wide mode for any newcomers

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Speaker 4: that want to come in. So Mobile as number two

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Speaker 4: in the industry, I think is going to remain firmly

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Speaker 4: in that place, if not move into the number one

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Speaker 4: position over the next several years. Number one Zon Number

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Speaker 4: one is Verizon still, so I'm a Verizon person.

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Speaker 5: I am too, But I just went to Italy and

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Speaker 5: how did what did you do for your phone needs?

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Speaker 3: Fine, it's just I have a plan that just ports

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Speaker 3: over to an international.

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Speaker 5: Okay, because as do uh huh.

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Speaker 3: All of my offspring that's the only thing that I

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Speaker 3: still pay for.

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Speaker 5: Yes, no one, no one wants to give that up.

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Speaker 5: Why pay for your own clone service when dad will

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Speaker 5: pay for it. I switched over to T Mobile because

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Speaker 5: of the giveaways, yes, because of the free iPhone last cycle,

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Speaker 5: and also because you get free data and free international

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Speaker 5: texting when you're overseas up to five gigabytes, so that

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Speaker 5: means I never have to buy an international data pison shopping.

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Speaker 4: That is the single biggest hook I hear. So when

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Speaker 4: people come to me and they're like, I'm a T

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Speaker 4: mobile subscriber. They have all these giveaways and they have

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Speaker 4: international call.

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Speaker 5: That makes a big difference because when I was on

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Speaker 5: AT and T, I was paying ten dollars a day

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Speaker 5: and that adds.

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Speaker 4: Up really quickly, does it really?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 5: And then only one person in the family can get

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Speaker 5: it because you know, not everyone's going to.

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Speaker 3: Get it right, and they have four offspring plus an

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Speaker 3: next wife, you're still paying for it.

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Speaker 4: Well, there you go.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Pellett is on the t MO, but he he

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Speaker 3: always tries to sell me.

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Speaker 5: To Charlie also knows the great deal. Well that's the

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Speaker 5: secret here at Bloomberg.

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Speaker 3: Charlie's traveling the strange parts of the world where he

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Speaker 3: probably needs that kind of stuff. So what's the future

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Speaker 3: of wireless in this country? Is it just our poop

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Speaker 3: growth average revenue per user? And is that kind of

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Speaker 3: the story for that is So.

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Speaker 4: That is a great question, that is what's driving growth

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Speaker 4: now for a telco you's sort of run out of

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Speaker 4: room for adding new subs and so you need to

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Speaker 4: drive that up, that average revenue per user, and they're

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Speaker 4: doing it with the giveaways. We were just talking about

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Speaker 4: They actually charge modestly for those. In some cases they're

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Speaker 4: selling you phone insurance. T Mobile is now pushing into

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Speaker 4: the advertising business, but the real avenue of growth to

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Speaker 4: watch for them going forward is broadband. They are making

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Speaker 4: more and more inroads into that market and T Mobile

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Speaker 4: It's what I'm watching with the new CEO here to

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Speaker 4: see what he does in fiber broadband, because if T

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Speaker 4: Mobile has had any sort of a misfire over the

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Speaker 4: past decade, it's not going into fiber broadband in a

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Speaker 4: bigger way in the way that AT and TM Verizon

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Speaker 4: both have through sizeable and aggressive acquisitions. So it'll be

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Speaker 4: interesting to see what he does there. My call is

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Speaker 4: he's going to start building quickly and aggressively, would be

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Speaker 4: my guess.

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Speaker 5: Another thing I just thought of that sold me on

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Speaker 5: TIM Mobile was they have a really simple bill, right,

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Speaker 5: they don't have the quoted amount and then tax on

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Speaker 5: top of that, everything's included, which makes any different.

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Speaker 4: It's user friendly, it's very They're very good at consumer branding.

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Speaker 4: They really understand the consumer and what they want and

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Speaker 4: wireless and from their carrier so and Snoop Dogg and

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Speaker 4: Snoopy spokesperson.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, so when it comes to fierroptic, how

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Speaker 5: much more of that rollout is left? I mean, where

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Speaker 5: are they in that in that not transition, but in

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Speaker 5: that buildout. Is it like second inning or is it

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Speaker 5: eighth ining?

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Speaker 4: So I'm going to call second inning. Here's the really

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Speaker 4: interesting fact I picked up recently. If you look at

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Speaker 4: Canada or even Europe parts of Europe, fiber broadband is

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Speaker 4: seventy percent of the total installed base of broadband subscribers.

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Speaker 4: And keep in mind, fiber is far and away the

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Speaker 4: best medium for broadband. It has truly symmetrical speed, so

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Speaker 4: upload and download great for zoom calls, and it's extremely

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Speaker 4: high capacity, so it's sort of future proof in that sense.

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Speaker 4: The US is only thirty percent penetrated with fibers, so

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Speaker 4: I think there's lots of room to run there. And

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Speaker 4: that's what AT and T has done so well. They

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Speaker 4: have really leaned hard into a fiber broadband strategy. Verizon

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Speaker 4: has and is continuing to lean in there, and T

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Speaker 4: Mobile is the laggard. So again, with the new CEO

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Speaker 4: coming in here, I'm looking to see if we'll see

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Speaker 4: any change in that strategy of theirs.

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