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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now with part two of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Kevin Adler right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 1: general sponsors. So it's one interaction led to kind of

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Speaker 1: a light bulb moment. I guess for you, is that

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Speaker 1: we can serve this way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, and again, the backstory that you

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Speaker 2: know isn't often shared on this on the on the website,

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Speaker 2: and the backstory of it is for about three or

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Speaker 2: four months, I.

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Speaker 1: Did nothing more.

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Speaker 2: Why besides, you have a life. I didn't have much

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Speaker 2: of a life. You didn't get the good bio there.

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Speaker 2: I did not have much of a life. I was

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Speaker 2: walking down the street. Stop that was you know what

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Speaker 2: it was is I can be my own worst critic,

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Speaker 2: probably like many of us. And I was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I'm the right person. When I think of

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Speaker 2: a person who does homeless outreach work, I think of

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Speaker 2: Little Angel some of the people I work with now,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, who go out with you know, no publicity,

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Speaker 2: no cameras, no intention of growing anything, and they're just

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Speaker 2: loving on people and not only do they know, you know,

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Speaker 2: giving out shoes today and the whole thing, I know

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Speaker 2: your shoe size, right, like you're a fan. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I felt like an impostor, right, that was not my life.

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Speaker 2: But what I realized was, it's not so much homelessness

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Speaker 2: that I care about, Like I care about the issue now,

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Speaker 2: you know, I dedicated to the last decade of my

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Speaker 2: life to it. But it's really not homelessness that kept

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Speaker 2: me going and drew me to this. It's my core values,

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Speaker 2: which believe that every single person is intrinsically valuable and

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Speaker 2: that we're all interconnected, right, And it was just I

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Speaker 2: think that's a fact, that's a value.

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Speaker 1: I get that's your value, but I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: can argue that every single human being has value and

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Speaker 1: that scientifically our DNA is one hundred percent connected. Those

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Speaker 1: are facts, right, So there are values, but they're they're

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Speaker 1: so facts.

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Speaker 2: There are facts and values that we don't live into

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Speaker 2: as a society.

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Speaker 1: Agreed one hundred percent, Thus the need for an army

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Speaker 1: and normal folks. But yes, agreed completely. And that was

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Speaker 1: for me, the rub that got me back out there.

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Speaker 1: That's what did because.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was like in San Francisco, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you were like, if I'm going to live my value,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to live my values. I gotta go talk

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Speaker 2: to people because I know something that other people don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's a virtue of this little stuff I've over with

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Speaker 2: my goro. And the wildest thing is it's just through

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Speaker 2: conversations with people, just going out having interacting, you know,

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Speaker 2: hearing their stories and then hearing the barriers of why

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Speaker 2: the person's unhoused. Suddenly it makes sense. It's not just

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Speaker 2: this abstraction. It's too big. How are we ever going

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Speaker 2: to handle this thing? It's like, oh, that's Johnny, who

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Speaker 2: was the next person I met. Went down to Saint

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Speaker 2: Anthony Foundation in San Francisco. I don't know that they've

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Speaker 2: been serving daily meals there for about the downtown so

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a faith, you know, origin affiliation. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: they've been doing daily meal services, right, so Souper Kitchen.

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Speaker 1: So you go down there.

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Speaker 2: I go down there, make this announcement saying hey, I'm here.

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Speaker 2: You know, Kevin's here. I'm gonna help people reconnect to

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Speaker 2: the camera. Kevin f Adler, the impostor, is here. Y'all right, yes,

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Speaker 2: grumbles right, and yeah, I basically say, you know, you

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Speaker 2: want to want to reconnect to their family. And it goes

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Speaker 2: over about as well as you think, which is crickets right,

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Speaker 2: people just for me, and I'm walking out it just

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Speaker 2: like great, I don't have to do this anymore. This

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Speaker 2: is this is my nobody wants that, no one, no

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Speaker 2: one gives who right, like, this is my deal with God.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it one more time and then if

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Speaker 2: this doesn't, you know, done. And of course this guy

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Speaker 2: comes up to me as I'm walking out the door,

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Speaker 2: you know, bright blue eyes, and he's like, Hi, I'm Johnny.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen my family in a long time, in

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Speaker 2: about thirty years. And I was like, God, right now,

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Speaker 2: I got it. Now I gotta do this thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So we go out. I record a video of him

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Speaker 2: to his family. Within three weeks, all four of his

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Speaker 2: siblings had recorded messages back to Johnny, and they all

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Speaker 2: flew from across the country on their own dime to

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Speaker 2: reunite with Johnny in a hotel room in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sitting there. They're sitting on a bed almost

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Speaker 2: forming like this v formation like birds do with Johnny

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Speaker 2: at the front, all surrounding him and he's looking me

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Speaker 2: in the eye and he says, you know, thank you

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Speaker 2: for giving me the family. And yeah, at that point,

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Speaker 2: all right, there's something here. I got play a role

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Speaker 2: in it. I gotta ask how that story about Johnny

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Speaker 2: has done really well. Johnny has done really well. So

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Speaker 2: at that time, I didn't realize that he was in

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Speaker 2: the throes of some addiction and it was reconnecting to

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Speaker 2: his family that gave him a new reason for a living.

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Speaker 2: So he was able to get the support treatment he needed.

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Speaker 2: He was able to beat that addiction. So he you know,

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Speaker 2: is he now housed And he's now housed.

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Speaker 1: So what happened? Years saved alive years later, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to stop for a minute.

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Speaker 2: All right, you saved a live. You don't want to

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Speaker 2: do that day. I think that puts too high of

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Speaker 2: a expectator. Yes, his life probably was saved through this work.

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Speaker 1: No doubt. He was on the streets doing addictive stuff.

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Speaker 1: He was going to end up dead before fifty or

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Speaker 1: by fifty. Yeah, that's what the that's what the facts saying.

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Speaker 1: You're a fact based person. Well, well no, I just

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Speaker 1: like data, and it's your facts. I'm just repeating back

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Speaker 1: to you what you told me.

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Speaker 2: And I think my only discomfort with and that's true

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Speaker 2: is there's the ones who we aren't able to save.

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Speaker 2: Hit me hard, real hard.

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Speaker 1: I get that. Yeah, but I've said this before. Another

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Speaker 1: shows something that dawned on me probably five years into

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Speaker 1: my work in the Inner City, is that if you

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Speaker 1: take a piece of paper and draw a line down

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Speaker 1: the middle of it, and then a little line across

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Speaker 1: the top of it, and you put a plus in

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Speaker 1: the left margin and a minus in the right, and

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Speaker 1: you start listing all the pluses against all the minuses,

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Speaker 1: if the minuses outwigh the pluses, and you see that

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Speaker 1: as a failure, which in school or business is how

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Speaker 1: you ledge your success. If you do that, when you're

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Speaker 1: working in a community like you and I have worked in,

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Speaker 1: and like you're working in, you'll be the most oppressed

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Speaker 1: hman being on the planet. Which you've got to realize

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Speaker 1: is most of those pluses never happen without your engagement,

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Speaker 1: so each of them are one hundred percent successes, and

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Speaker 1: you can't measure the pluses against the minuses.

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Speaker 2: And that kind were you a coach in a previous

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Speaker 2: life might have been good pep talks. That's a good

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Speaker 2: one and I and that's true.

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Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent called the Ben Franklin clothes. Ben

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Speaker 1: Franklin used to make decisions by drawing a plus and

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Speaker 1: a nag. Yeah, he drew a plus and a minus

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Speaker 1: on top of a page. You're lying down it thought

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Speaker 1: about all of the positives and all the negatives that

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Speaker 1: would occur as a result of what he was about

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Speaker 1: to engage in, and if the minuses o wigh the positives,

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Speaker 1: he did, and he found something else to do. And

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Speaker 1: that's effective, except when you're dealing with a ledger that

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Speaker 1: doesn't start even, but it starts with a metric ass

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Speaker 1: ton full of minuses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Johnny's story his life was say from their

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Speaker 2: reconnection and years later as a kicker, he was housed

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Speaker 2: but as he was talking about, four walls and a

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Speaker 2: roof don't always make a house a home, and he

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Speaker 2: was feeling super isolated, lonely, getting depressed. Gained a lot

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Speaker 2: of weight after beating the drugs, but put on a

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Speaker 2: ton of weight, and he told me, you know, years later,

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Speaker 2: he's like, I was getting very depressed and started having

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Speaker 2: suicidal thoughts. But what saved me two things. Started seeing

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Speaker 2: a therapist made a big difference. Second was he signed

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Speaker 2: up for our second program that we created, Miracle Messages

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Speaker 2: as a phone buddy program, so we match folks every

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Speaker 2: day volunteers, people who are housed for weekly phone calls

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Speaker 2: and text messages, kind of like a digital pen pal.

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Speaker 2: Johnny signed up for that program, unbeknownst that he was

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Speaker 2: signing up for this thing that he had already done

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Speaker 2: with the reunions. He got with a friend who they

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Speaker 2: started having weekly phone calls and text messages and just

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Speaker 2: having that person to talk to.

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Speaker 1: He said, just a little bit of encouragement from another

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Speaker 1: event being goes along one that was it? All right?

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Speaker 1: So Johnny's two Johnny was the second one. But we

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Speaker 1: don't really have an organization at this time. We have

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Speaker 1: a goofy dude walking around with a GoPro on the

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Speaker 1: street talking to homeless people. That's all we got at

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Speaker 1: this point. So what happens?

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Speaker 2: So I quit my job. I had been Okay, now

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Speaker 2: you're ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And what did you do?

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Speaker 2: I was working in the education technology space, so kind

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Speaker 2: of the startup Silicon Valley in San Francisco, you know,

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Speaker 2: but I was always more driven by like mission than profit,

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Speaker 2: and I'd let the mission interfere with profit. Sometimes that's

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Speaker 2: all another story. But this whole idea of like social entrepreneurship,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what that means, but that was kind

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Speaker 2: of like who what I was.

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Speaker 1: Neither did I and I'm not sure I still actually

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Speaker 1: know what it means. Yeah, Yeah, I mean we call it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what it means to me is finding needs like

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Speaker 2: you would in business, but instead of optimizing for you know,

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Speaker 2: making money, you're optimizing for changing lines.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good way to define it, really is,

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Speaker 1: And we'll be right back. You quit your job, yes,

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Speaker 1: because you're well balanced, and you decide I'm going to

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Speaker 1: spend my time walking around talking to homeless people with

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Speaker 1: a GoPro.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, raised a little bit of money on like online

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Speaker 2: crowdfunding to travel across the country, and I had this

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Speaker 2: thing called the one hundred Stories campaign where I was

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Speaker 2: just going to talk to one hundred people, offer this

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Speaker 2: service to one hundred people, and if they took it

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Speaker 2: up grade, If not, that's it. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of it, evaluate my life decisions.

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Speaker 1: And see if in the meantime you can connect some

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Speaker 1: housed people with some family.

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Speaker 2: And went to Burlington, Vermont, where I met Harry and

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Speaker 2: he hadn't seen his son.

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Speaker 1: Burlington, Vermont.

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Speaker 2: Of all places, you know, I think there's a few places.

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Speaker 2: Like the reaction you just had is why I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go to places off the beach to track. That's

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Speaker 2: a good point, that's really well said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it, yeah, right, because we anybody can

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Speaker 1: go to Angeles.

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Speaker 2: New York, or DC or you know, Miami or what

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Speaker 2: San Francisco. But like homelessness, we're at the tip of

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Speaker 2: the iceberg. And I'm even now getting emails every day

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Speaker 2: through miracle messages from folks who are unhoused asking for

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Speaker 2: services or seeking some help in places I've never heard

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Speaker 2: of in this country, right, small towns all across. So

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Speaker 2: this would get a lot worse before it's better. So

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Speaker 2: you go to Burlington, I go to Burlington, I go

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Speaker 2: to Portland, Maine. You know, I go to Manchester, New Hampshire,

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Speaker 2: go to Miami at one point in Fort Lauderdale, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just offering these services and meeting people.

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Speaker 1: Literally just walking down the street.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes go into like a local homeless service org and

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Speaker 2: saying Hey, can I camp out here for a bit

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Speaker 2: and offer these services? Right, And people are generally pretty

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Speaker 2: receptive to it, and had a lot of powerful conversations

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Speaker 2: and occasionally would meet someone who wanted to reconnect to

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Speaker 2: their loved ones and would do my best to try

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Speaker 2: to facilitate that reconnection. At the time, it was more

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Speaker 2: posting things on social media, doing searches, and those posts

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Speaker 2: would go viral, news covers it, people would get tagged.

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Speaker 2: Because I didn't realize this until later, but family is

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Speaker 2: often looking for the homeless relatives but don't know where

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Speaker 2: to where to turn. And every day we get family

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Speaker 2: members reaching out to us saying, hey, my brother's missing.

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Speaker 2: This is kind of like America's most wanted enough homeless.

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Speaker 2: It is. It's like reverse kind of feel good it

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Speaker 2: really is. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I started doing that

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Speaker 2: and you know, one hundred stories in just had had

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Speaker 2: people you know, reconnect get off the streets, powerful homecomings,

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Speaker 2: some you know, big ones that didn't work out too right.

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Speaker 2: I can talk about the successes and there there's going

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Speaker 2: to be yeah, but there were more pluses than minuses

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Speaker 2: on that doing it. Yeah, So, and and got down

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Speaker 2: to a place where I was barely getting by, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm not coming from tons of family money, and you know,

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Speaker 2: like I just got you know, trust fund that I'm

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Speaker 2: now It was like, yeah, I'm privileged in the sense

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Speaker 2: that rock bottom for me is just going to go

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Speaker 2: move in with my dad, right, I can go live

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Speaker 2: at his house. But it was never going to be

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Speaker 2: so I could take these risks. But also, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're in your mid to late twenties at a

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Speaker 2: point getting down to like six hundred dollars in a

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Speaker 2: savings account, there's not much he can do to sustain

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Speaker 2: after that. So twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, briefly stepped away

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Speaker 2: from mere messages. I started working outside of that, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just going to make money here

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Speaker 2: and then subsidize it there, right, And kind of that

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Speaker 2: was the play. I could have used a little more

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Speaker 2: coaching than that. And my dad's like, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Well? You are twenty six. Yeah, he's a very good

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Speaker 1: friend of mine. Told my son when he went to

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Speaker 1: d C. People need to understand a thirteen hundred square

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Speaker 1: foot apartment in d c's four or five thousand dollars, right,

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Speaker 1: so you pile five or six people in a one

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Speaker 1: bedroom and just live and put A buddy of mine

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Speaker 1: told my son, great advice is you can be young,

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Speaker 1: single and broke once in your life. Do what you

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Speaker 1: want to do. Why you can be young, single and.

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Speaker 2: Bro that's if you're lucky too. Yeah that's true. Yeah

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Speaker 2: it's a lucky one. But that feels like that's what

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Speaker 2: you were. Yeah, I mean I kept I both wasn't

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Speaker 2: making much, but I kept my costs real well. So

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Speaker 2: I found a five bedroom house in the outskirts of

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Speaker 2: San Francisco. I was the master tenant. Everyone had a

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Speaker 2: good rent. I had a great rent, right, like.

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Speaker 1: The same thing that's sent in DC.

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Speaker 2: That's what say, you figure it out and so but

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Speaker 2: you know, it got to the point where it's just

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Speaker 2: like this is not sustainable. And I go and I'm

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Speaker 2: working on a political campaign for about one week, and

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Speaker 2: I'm learning all the organizing and campaign work and marketing

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Speaker 2: and the whole thing. And everything I'm learning, I'm applying

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Speaker 2: back to miracle messages. So I'm like, all right, I

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Speaker 2: can't continue with this. I sent them an email. I'm

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Speaker 2: saying sorry, I can't do this. Go to bed that night,

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Speaker 2: I turn off my phone. I hate that feel of

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Speaker 2: letting people down, like disappointing. So I'm thinking I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get this, you know, angry email morning. They didn't care.

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Speaker 2: I was a nobody on the campaign, but I did

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Speaker 2: have two emails in my inbox this true story. First

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Speaker 2: email was from Ted Heed Residency saying, congratulations. We'd like

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Speaker 2: to invite you to come to New York, live here

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Speaker 2: for six months, incubate your idea at TED headquarters, and

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Speaker 2: then give it Ted time on this one.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Second email, Hey, there, we're producing this digital platform called

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Speaker 2: now This like a BuzzFeed kind of thing. We love

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Speaker 2: your work. We would like to tell your story. That

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Speaker 2: video at twenty six million views, one million shares online.

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Speaker 2: That plus the Ted talk led to some funders getting

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Speaker 2: introduced to us get in our first funding at Miracle Messages,

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Speaker 2: and twenty seventeen we got that funding. Since then, we've

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Speaker 2: never missed a payroll and we've grown the team. We're

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Speaker 2: about twelve thirteen full time. We just hired my successor

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Speaker 2: last year as a new seat. So it's now become

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Speaker 2: a legit thing. Didn't start that.

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Speaker 1: Way though, So tell me what this legit thing does.

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Speaker 2: So Miracle Messages we help people experience from a normal

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Speaker 2: guy who was a little bit nutty who decided to

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Speaker 2: film some homeless people to connect them because he knew

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Speaker 2: how much the connection from his uncle meant to him.

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Speaker 2: And that's where it comes from. How Jesus had a

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Speaker 2: smartphone and the whole weird origin, the whole thing and

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Speaker 2: the origin of the name was. I asked Jennifer, who

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Speaker 2: reconnected to Jeffrey, which we call this thing? Like there's

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Speaker 2: nothing here, Like people are asking, what's this thing called.

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Speaker 2: I was like, dude, goofy guy walks with the phone's

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Speaker 2: you know, that's very catchy. And she's like, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're here in Monteursville, and locally people have called it

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Speaker 2: the miracle of Monteursville, so maybe we could call it.

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Speaker 2: It's like a miracle message. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was like, great, it's a miracle message. So we

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Speaker 2: help people were nonprofit five oh one c three. We

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Speaker 2: help people experiencing homelessness rebuild their social support systems and

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Speaker 2: their financial security. So we do a couple of things.

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Speaker 2: We do family and friend reunification services. So instead of

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Speaker 2: just random people walking down the streets blasting things on

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Speaker 2: social media, we now have caseworkers, social workers, outreach workers,

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Speaker 2: local chapters around the country, folks who are going to

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Speaker 2: partner sites offering services. We also get folks who are

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Speaker 2: unhoused reaching out to us directly, often through our either

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Speaker 2: the website, you know, Miracle Messages dot org, or we

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Speaker 2: set up a hotline. The phone number is really easy

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Speaker 2: to remember, one eight hundred, miss you right, we all

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Speaker 2: met we.

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Speaker 1: You right.

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Speaker 2: So we get messages coming in, and when a message

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Speaker 2: comes in, we have a network of volunteer digital detectives.

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Speaker 2: So these are everyday people who are just like feeling

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Speaker 2: frustrated and helpless on this issue, and like, what can

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Speaker 2: I do? I want to do something right. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to just see people living and dying on the

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Speaker 2: streets in front of me.

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Speaker 1: So let's do someone listening to us who wants to

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Speaker 1: get involved. Yeah, exactly, here's.

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Speaker 2: One way to do it. You could be a digital detective.

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Speaker 2: You can do digital sleuthing for good and you're going

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Speaker 2: online making phone calls, writing letters, doing digital searches, locate

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Speaker 2: loved ones, deliver messages. That process has led to about

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Speaker 2: eleven hundred reunifications.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I read a stat that by the end of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, So now we're a little bit ahead

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Speaker 1: of that. But by the end of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: one thousand people had been reunited with loved ones via

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Speaker 1: Americal messages. Eighty percent of reunions have led to what

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Speaker 1: you call positive outcomes. That's a lot more than negatives,

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Speaker 1: with fifteen to twenty percent leading to homeless family members

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Speaker 1: actually getting off the streets. That's phenomenal. We were always about,

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Speaker 1: what are we going to do about this problem? Well,

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Speaker 1: here's one.

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Speaker 2: Problem, reconnecting again. It's a first step to family reunification

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Speaker 2: and love one reunification not a last step. So there

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Speaker 2: are programs where it's like, all you need is bus

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Speaker 2: fare to get a one way bus ticket to go

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Speaker 2: live with your loved ones. We say, well, maybe a

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Speaker 2: first you know, if you're reconnecting after years, if not decades,

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Speaker 2: the starting point might just be I I'm still alive,

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Speaker 2: I love you, I miss you, I'm sorry, I want

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Speaker 2: you back in my life, and that's where we start

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Speaker 2: the miracle messages. We also have it where families reach

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Speaker 2: out to us looking for their missing relatives who are

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Speaker 2: unhoused in a city, and we've done about one hundred

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty of those very hard needle in

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Speaker 2: a haystack. Find them cases is what we call it.

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Speaker 2: But we also have learned that for some people, families

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Speaker 2: part of the problem, not part of the solution. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's violence, there's unsaved home environment, there's reasons abuse, reasons

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Speaker 2: not to reconnect. That's totally in Appermai way. I have

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Speaker 2: a family goes to foster care, and some don't have

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Speaker 2: family of foster car and often, and we've got to

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Speaker 2: talk about this, sometimes the family is not that much

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Speaker 2: better off than the person experiencing homelessness. You know, we

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Speaker 2: got a country right now where one out of every

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Speaker 2: two people are one paycheck away from not being able

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Speaker 2: to pay rent, and forty percent of people say they

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Speaker 2: don't know where they'd get four hundred dollars for an

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Speaker 2: unexpected emergency. So you know the goal of this is

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Speaker 2: not let's let's put the entire burden on families and

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Speaker 2: that's the solution. You got to build housing, you gotta

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Speaker 2: have a lot of other services. But now, I consider

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Speaker 2: myself a pragmatic idealist. This is I'm very pragmatic. It's

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Speaker 2: a step and we all need we all need that

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Speaker 2: kind of social support. So for folks who don't have

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Speaker 2: family to reconnect to. That's where we created our Phone

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Speaker 2: Buddy program where we match every day volunteers.

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Speaker 1: Maybe some of your listeners know the opportunity for people

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Speaker 1: just and it doesn't take that much time.

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Speaker 2: You're talking once a week twenty minutes, thirty minutes a

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Speaker 2: week for three months is our initial commitment we asked for.

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Speaker 2: And it's a digital phone calls and if you're not

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Speaker 2: comfortable phone calls, you do text messages.

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Speaker 1: Josh check.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to meet if you're not wanting to

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Speaker 2: meet in person. It's just checking on you, right, being

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Speaker 2: a neighbor, how you doing right? And we say you're

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Speaker 2: not trying to be a lightweight case worker a social worker,

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Speaker 2: because for many folks who are on housed, including also

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Speaker 2: some of our volunteers are housed, this may be the

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Speaker 2: only person that they have to talk to.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: We have a real crisis right now where loneliness disconnection

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Speaker 2: all time high. So we have Miracle Friends is that

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Speaker 2: program where we match people for weekly calls and texts.

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Speaker 2: Those volunteers have logged over three hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: conversation minutes and you know, lives get changed on both

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Speaker 2: sides of the legend.

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Speaker 1: That eyes open.

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Speaker 2: I get that that eyes get open. Oh yeah yeah,

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Speaker 2: And you think like Bruce and Nathaniel. You know, Bruce,

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Speaker 2: someone who works, invents your capital. He's got a ton

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Speaker 2: of resources. He's great. Nathaniel, he's been in and out

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Speaker 2: of jail, he's lived on the streets, he's had substance issues.

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Speaker 2: What value could Nathaniel possibly remind group as well as

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Speaker 2: Bruce would tell it? First, eye's hearts get open right

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Speaker 2: on this issue, learn more about his community, decide that

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Speaker 2: he doesn't interact with you often. And not too long ago,

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Speaker 2: Bruce's father passed. The first person called them was Nathaniel,

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Speaker 2: as he said, I lost.

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Speaker 1: My dad a few years ago. Two. I know what

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Speaker 1: that's like.

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Speaker 2: So for me, this gets us past the labels, the categories,

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00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: all that nonsense into just like we're human together.

434
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: We allow humanity to do its things. We'll be right back.

435
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to read some numbers and then I'm going

436
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: to ask you some more questions. Actually, I'm gonna tell

437
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: you a story, and then I'm gonna ask you more questions.

438
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: The Department of Housing and Urban Development HUD estimates that

439
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: five hundred and eighty two thousand, four hundred and sixty

440
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: two people experience homelessness each night.

441
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: I think that's that's way low low number, and the

442
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: latest number is closer to seven hundred and fifty dollars.

443
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: That feels about right.

444
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: But if we estimated my book, it's closer to six

445
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: million over the course.

446
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: Of the year with TRANSUL listeners. Of those, a handful

447
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty thousand or so are sheltered. About

448
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: half for those in shelters, fifty nine percent of individuals

449
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: and forty one percent are with their families. That's the

450
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: that's one that's start that forty percent of families are

451
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: on now right.

452
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: Of unhoused people are family? Are part of families? Right, yes,

453
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: are part of famis.

454
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: Two hundred and fifty or so are unsheltered, ninety two

455
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: percent being individuals and eight percent with their families. One

456
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: point one million school children are considered unhoused. That breaks

457
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: my heart. The total number experiencing homeless homelessness at one

458
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: moment is likely around two and a halfter three million

459
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: and six men over the course of a year, which

460
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: is almost two percent of our population. One in fifty.

461
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: Blacks are twelve percent of the population but represent thirty

462
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: percent of homelessness thirty thirty what I say, thirty seven

463
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: percent and fifty percent of homeless families with children.

464
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: Homelessness reveals a lot of societal issues.

465
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: My brother in law, my wife Lisa, her little brother's been.

466
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: I've spoken about them a handful of times on the podcast.

467
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: Been a special needs and I've known been since he

468
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: was four and have experienced all of the gifts and

469
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: blessings that has been and all of the headaches that

470
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: can go along with new special needs. And it's not

471
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: an easy thing to live with special needs, I'm sure,

472
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: but I can also tell you it's often not easy

473
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: to be the family of someone's special needs and care

474
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: for him. I mean, it's just it's it's hard work.

475
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: It's work we all gladly take on, but it does

476
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: not diminish the fact that it's hard oftentimes. Ben was

477
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: sixteen and a half when he was given the afforded

478
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: the great opportunity to go to a place in Austin,

479
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: Texas called the Brown School, which really worked well with

480
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: people with developmental disabilities plus behavioral issues, and it was

481
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: a blessing for the family that he got in, and

482
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: he was doing really well. Ben is also high enough

483
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: functioning that he knows enough about how the world works,

484
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: low enough functioning that he is certainly developmentally disabled, but

485
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: he knows a few things, and he's a lot smarter

486
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: as our most people in his situation than we think. Well.

487
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: He over the course of the five or six years

488
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: that he'd been going to different schools in different places,

489
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: he kind of learned the rules around institutionalization. And on

490
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: his eighteenth birthday he walked up the front desk and said,

491
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: I would like to leave. And because of the very

492
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: thing you were talking about, the hippo rules and be

493
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: ensued and everything. They had twenty four hours where they

494
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: legally do set him onto the streets of Austin, Texas.

495
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: And they called and said, then's about to leave. We're like,

496
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: what what do you mean? He's about to leave? He's

497
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: got he operates on a third grade level. He can't.

498
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just progative, it's legally his right. And

499
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: he says he didn't want to stay here anymore and

500
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: he is not committed here by a judge or any law.

501
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: And we got there a few hours before he walked out.

502
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: Had they not called us, and had he walked out,

503
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: I have no idea what would have happened, but I

504
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: can assure you, knowing the way Ben looks, knowing his effect,

505
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: his gait is everything, thousands of people would walk right

506
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: by and not given him a second thought and just

507
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: tried to stay out of his way, you know. So

508
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: I would say our family was hours away from experiencing

509
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: a dear loved one and homelessness. So I hear all

510
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: these numbers, and I give you that story to also

511
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: tell you I'm really sick of my car getting broken

512
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: into and having to pay five hundred dollars to replace

513
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: the window, and all the change being rifled through in

514
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: my console. Sick of that too. So I am a

515
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: little bit of a hypocrite and certainly very conflicted as

516
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: it pertains to all of this and won an answer,

517
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: you know. And I think the vast majority of the

518
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: people in the country have a heart for folks who

519
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: are not well off, but are also sick of their neighborhoods,

520
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: especially in urban areas, dealing with such a terrible circumstance,

521
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: both on a human level and candidly on a societal level.

522
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: For those of us living with people in this and

523
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: we have all seen in your hometown of San Francisco

524
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: on the news, which I am certain to sensationalized, but

525
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. In your area, we have

526
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: all seen on the news pictures of encamped areas of

527
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: San Francisco that were once beautiful roads with a bunch

528
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: of pup tents and people peeing on the sidewalks and

529
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: drug and some areas down by the wharf and everything else.

530
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: That it's not good for society, it's not good for

531
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: the people there, you know. And I'm shut in all

532
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: that sensationalized, but I guess what I'm saying to you

533
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: is I think this whole area provides just a lot

534
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: of conflict for people. And when you hear all those numbers,

535
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: you're basically talking one in fifty. This is not an

536
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: isolated deal. This is everywhere. Seems to me you have

537
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: stumbled across a way to start to help chip away

538
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: at the problem. And after ten years, I consider experts.

539
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: You know. I don't think a degree or certification makes

540
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: you an expert in a certain era. I think the

541
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: work there does. So I consider you an expert in

542
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: this area because of the amount of time you've spent

543
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: learning understanding it.

544
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: What do we do well? The status quo is not

545
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: working for anyone right now. It's not housed or on

546
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: house people. We have to just start with that, like naming.

547
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: That is actually really important because sometimes people are trying

548
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: to say, oh, it's not so bad. You don't know

549
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: what you're experiencing. You're like, my card just got broken

550
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: into for the un teenth time. I don't feel comfortable

551
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: walking down the street.

552
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: With the kids.

553
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: I see people living and dying on the streets. This

554
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 2: doesn't work for them. It doesn't work for us, us

555
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: them right. It doesn't look for society. It's not acceptable.

556
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: It's also very costly. We spend forty to eighty thousand

557
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 2: dollars per unhoused person per year to maintain them on

558
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: the streets for one polease, fire, emergency services, sanitation. That's

559
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: a lot of money. Forty eighty thousand dollars keep someone unhoused.

560
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: That doesn't work, right. So I mean, even if like

561
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: you're fiscally conservative and thinking about the stuff, the status

562
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: quo is about the most expensive version of all this,

563
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: which is why you know we'll get into the cash thing.

564
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: So I think as a society, we have swung way

565
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: too far to individual agency at the expense of common sense.

566
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: And my views on this have only been informed from

567
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: doing this for ten years, talking to thousands of people,

568
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: listening to families, because when I talk to the families,

569
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: they're like, this is no quality of life for my brother,

570
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: my sister.

571
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: I don't want them.

572
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 2: I don't want my uncle Mark sitting there in his

573
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: own feces talking to himself and you know, being most

574
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: crimes involving people experiencing homelessness, the person who's unhoused is

575
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: the victim.

576
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: As I'm listening to I'm reminding myself and I hope

577
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: all listeners are around themselves. You're the guy that approached

578
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: the first guy with your keys in your Yeah. Absolutely,

579
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: that's where I started. This is an evolution for you.

580
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: It's a journey. The two questions I ask when I

581
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: you know, if I give a talk, and I'll even

582
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, ask your listeners and invite them to think

583
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: about it. So, you know, raise your hand if you

584
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: know if you care about the issue of homelessness. Every

585
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: hand goes up. Say second question, raise your hand if

586
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: you know someone that's currently experiencing homelessness. When I give

587
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: that second question, it's never more than about five percent

588
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: of people raise their hands. They say, well, that might

589
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: be part of the problem. Imagine any other issue. You know,

590
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: we're talking about racial justice. You don't know any black

591
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: or brown people, right, Like, how are you even going

592
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: to start? What work are you going to do? You're

593
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: not going to know where to start, what the experience

594
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: is like any of that. You got to have relationships,

595
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: you know. Brian Stevenson, Equal Justice Initiative founder, he talks

596
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: about the importance of proximity. I get proximate. I actually

597
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: think you have to go further than proximity. You have

598
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: to get relational. You don't have at least one friend

599
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: person you know by name. That's the first step. So

600
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: in my journey of doing that work, I started very

601
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: you know, give you a sense of where I started.

602
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: When I studied abroad in the UK in London. This

603
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: was shortly after the bombings that they had in two

604
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: thousand and two thousand and five, seven to seven bombings,

605
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: forty eight people, fifty people killed. And my dad wants

606
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: buses or the buses, Yeah, the tube and the buses,

607
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: the tube and the buses. Yeah, my dad just before

608
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: leaving for London, you know, study abroad that fall. He's

609
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: on the computer and I go and I look what,

610
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: you know what he's looking up side? He calls me over.

611
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: He's like, take a look at this. I was thinking

612
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: about this for you. He's looking at flack jackets where

613
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: this is where this is where you start. He's like,

614
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: I want you to wear because this is gonna.

615
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: Make you wear a flat jacket walk around London.

616
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: This is going to make a lot of friends right there,

617
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: this flat jacket on the tube.

618
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: Anytime I see some of an American in London wearing

619
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: a flag jacket the iron right. Yeah, and of course

620
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: where the cops don't even working.

621
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: Anyone who looks any different than me. I'm into the

622
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: next keys. I get your keys. This is where I started.

623
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: This is my Unfortunately I did not as like that.

624
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: But the point is that was your ethought.

625
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: That was the water in which I was swimming, right

626
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: and uh. And then you know, to bring it full

627
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: circle to then meet an individual who reminded me of

628
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: my uncle Mark most more than any person I've ever

629
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: met in my twelve years of doing this work, and

630
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: then asking him the question I would have liked to

631
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: have asked my uncle Mark, saying, you know you're suffering

632
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: from schizophrenia. You have told me about your substance abuse issues,

633
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: You've told me about your mental health issues. You're in

634
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: that smaller percentage. But like my uncle, what do you

635
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: wish I knew that I don't know about you. And

636
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: the guy looks at me and he says, I just

637
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: wish people realized that I was so much more of

638
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: a threat to myself than I would ever be. So

639
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: my education has just come from those conversations and listening,

640
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: talking and seeing people not as problems but as people

641
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: to love, because I think if we love people, problems

642
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: get solved, which is why I think there there is

643
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: an important role in society. The book, I call for

644
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: some pretty controversial things like involuntary treatment and involuntary holds

645
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 2: where people don't have a choice in that matter.

646
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: Now that's that's surprising. That flies in the face of

647
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. And voluntary holds.

648
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: Yep, now here's the rub, Because you know I can

649
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 2: be abused. What first, what have you done to get

650
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: to that point? Are you a threat to yourself or others?

651
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: Because if not right, there's kind there is more of

652
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: a live and let live also that you know there's

653
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: a trade off. We I want to go back to

654
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: one flew over the Cuckoo's nest right where people are

655
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: just locked up, thrown away. The key in these insane

656
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: as items, these institutions. We never funded the hatchwork of

657
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: the nationwide network of local Community Mental Health Addiction Service started.

658
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: That's right.

659
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: The involuntary treatment and hold it's limited. It's have you

660
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: done everything else in your power before getting to that point?

661
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: And and here's here's the rub. So okay, so you'll

662
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: hold someone for more than the forty eight or seventy

663
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 2: two hours, which is now what a lot of places

664
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: allow as max.

665
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: Then what Yeah, because you talk about expense, I mean

666
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: it can't go on indefinitely.

667
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: Need housing, so we come it's it's a full circle

668
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: thing of coming back to saying we need to build

669
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: more housing. And then people say, well, what what what

670
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: kind of housing are you talking about? I say, yeah,

671
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: plays for it. What we do is a society because

672
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: we're already painful.

673
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking the question.

674
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 2: No, I so this is where my extreme this is.

675
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: You know, anything you thought of me as left leaning,

676
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: that probably was you know by that statement of involuntary

677
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: treatment soldar.

678
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: Like, what is this guy?

679
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 2: We have in the Clinton administration? Clinton give you the paraphrase,

680
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: numbers the exact ones in the book. He cut the

681
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 2: budget for public housing by about ten eleven billion dollars.

682
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 2: At that same time, he increased the budget or prisons

683
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 2: by about ten eleven billion dollars. So, in a very

684
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: real sense, incarceration has become our nation's public housing.

685
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: That's just switched.

686
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: We've switched it, and that's very expensive. That doesn't work

687
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: for me, that's not a good option. That's also how

688
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people get cleaned. We'll be right back,

689
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: and we have, as a society created scapegoats for all

690
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: of our problems.

691
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:04,959
Speaker 1: It's easier to.

692
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: Look at someone, look at a group of people and

693
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: say they're to blame. If we just get rid of

694
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: them or don't provide them with any services, we're all

695
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 2: going to be better off. That's never the case. So

696
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: my view is we need to build more housing of

697
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: all types, and it's going to cost us a lot

698
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: as a society, but the current status quo is costing

699
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 2: us even more.

700
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: So.

701
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: Do we need more affordable housing? Yes, we need tiny homes. Yes,

702
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: we need safe parking sites. People can sleep in their vehicle,

703
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: but in a designated area with services. Yes, And you

704
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: just kind of go down the list. You cannot be

705
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: for ending homelessness and being frustrated by the status quo

706
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: and having your car broken into, and be against developing

707
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: housing in your neighbor I'm so glad you said that.

708
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: That's what I was hoping to hear you say, is.

709
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: Choose a side.

710
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: If you're not for doing something about homelessness, quit bit

711
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: about homelessness. If you're against what this is doing society,

712
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: then you're going to have to embrace some answer. You

713
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: can't have it both ways.

714
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: Can I read something to you? Is that awkward? I

715
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: mean I've already been awkward, so let's remember you being

716
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: awkward at all. Well, he said, goofy, that was your word.

717
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: You are goofy. I'm goofy too.

718
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: I like, I mean, anybody who quits their job down

719
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: the road talking about what is your job? Now?

720
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: I bet your dad thinks you're goofy.

721
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: He less. So now that we got fun, I mean

722
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: when it started. But when it started, yeah, it's like,

723
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 2: what is this?

724
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: Okay? So it's your job? You know, just just kind

725
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: of being familiar with you.

726
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: I'm giving you hard time.

727
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: That's Alex's job.

728
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: You stop it my show, answer the questions and move on.

729
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: Just ask myself my own question. So this is in

730
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: times of crisis. In the early morning hours of Wednesday,

731
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: April eighteenth, nineteen oh six, a seven point nine magnitude

732
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: earthquake struck along the San Andreas Fault in northern California,

733
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: with the epicenter just two miles off the coast of

734
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: San Francisco. The massive quake caused a conflagration that destroyed

735
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: some twenty eight thousand buildings in San Francisco, leveling more

736
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 2: than five hundred blocks in the city center. More than

737
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: three thousand people died and about eighty percent of the

738
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: city was destroyed in the aftermath of the nineteen oh

739
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: six earthquake and fire. Here it is some two hundred

740
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand residents of San Francisco were displaced, establishing

741
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: makeshift camps in park areas and in burnt out ruins

742
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: of buildings. For a short period of time, more than

743
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: half of the city's four hundred thousand residents experienced homelessness.

744
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: In response, the city did not pass anti camping ordinances.

745
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: Law enforcement was not mobilized to raise tent encampments and

746
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: confiscate belongings. Local residents whose homes withstood the brunt of

747
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: the disaster did not join together to form anti survivor

748
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: not in my Backyard protests. Instead, city officials and local

749
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: residents rallied together to help. As winner approached, this is

750
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: what you're getting at The city built fifty three hundred

751
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: small wooden cottages for those still in need of housing,

752
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: while the army housed twenty thousand refugees in military style

753
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 2: ted camps. Camps formed playgroups for kids and dining halls

754
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: for individuals and families, which became the centers for social life.

755
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: Tennants paid two dollars a month toward the fifty dollars

756
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: price of their earthquake cottage. Many assembled in Golden Gate

757
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 2: Park after paying off. After paying off their new home,

758
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: the owners were required to move their cottages out of

759
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: the camp, leaving earthquake cottages scattered throughout San Francisco in

760
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: an early example of scattered site housing. In June nineteen

761
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: oh eight, just two years after one of the most

762
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 2: devastating disasters in American history, the last camp closed, two

763
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand unhoused survivors had been housed. We

764
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: can deal with this like the current modern crisis of homelessness.

765
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: It's a crisis as much of hearts and minds on

766
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 2: who we see as responsible for this issue. If we

767
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: think of homelessness more aligned with disasters that we're just

768
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: not seeing. Like if there's an earthquake, if there's a flood,

769
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: if there's a fire, if there's a shooting, we know

770
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: how to respond as a community. We come together, we

771
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: do a hashtag, and we say the NASA is strong,

772
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: Memphis Strong.

773
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: Whatever.

774
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: With homelessness, it's equivalent to a crisis of that magnitude.

775
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: The only difference is we don't see the smoke, we

776
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: don't see the flood waters, we don't see the charred remains.

777
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: But we see the survivors. All those people. Every person

778
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: you see who is experiencing homelessness, they have survived unfathomable

779
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: traumas that once you actually get close enough to have

780
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: a conversation, you realize that's a mess, and often through

781
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: no fault of their own. So a question as a

782
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: society is are we going to respond as we would

783
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: in a natural disaster, where we mobilize, make emergency ordinances,

784
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: we provide housing even if it's makeschief for a couple

785
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: of years, or we continue to criminalize the matter right.

786
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: That to me is the choice that we have.

787
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: What are the detractors from that argument is, well, if

788
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: we just give everybody a house, people just quit working

789
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: and start going using all the free housing, and then

790
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: what you know what? I think that's horse crap because

791
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: anybody that can work really wants to work, and people

792
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: want to progress in their lives. That is a natural

793
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: human instinct and desire. People aren't just going to quit

794
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: it life and go live in a free one bedroom government.

795
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: I mean, there might be a very small percentage of

796
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: people who ride the dole on that, but on balance,

797
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: what is the cost of that versus what we're dealing

798
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: with right now?

799
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: And people who are homeless have jobs. Yeah, that's the

800
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: other thing we got to think about too. A lot

801
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: of them are working. About forty percent have a disability

802
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: where they're receiving some kind of assistance for chronic homeless

803
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 2: individuals majority, I mean nearly half of folks have some

804
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: kind of income that they're earning. It's just it's not enough.

805
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: To pay rent. Right, So then someone might say, well,

806
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: then move where somewhere cheaper where how I mean this

807
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: is then all where you know your community or just

808
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: like you.

809
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: Said, I don't think there's much cheaper place than somewhere

810
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: like the middle of Mississippi or West Virginia. What's there.

811
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: So this leads us into yeah, we're gonna we're going

812
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: to close with something direct cash. But this leads us

813
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: into something that I gotta be honest with you, dude,

814
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: A bristle, a pucker a little bit when I hear it,

815
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, go ahead and broach it.

816
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, let me share my journey getting into this,

817
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: and we're talking about it direct cash transfer. I think perspective.

818
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: Match to share my perspective. So we do the reunion

819
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 2: program at Miracle Messages, we do the phone Buddy program,

820
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: and this is, uh, you know, we're looking at twenty

821
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 2: twenty when we do the phone Buddy in the summer.

822
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: By that fall, so we're talking like three or four

823
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: months in. We started hearing from our volunteers, our housed

824
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 2: volunteers all around the country saying, hey, I've been matched

825
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: with this person. Now a couple of months, this person's

826
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: a good, good guy, good lady. I like them, I

827
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 2: respect them. They're telling me about the barriers and challenges

828
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 2: they face to housing. I don't know how to get

829
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: them into housing that seems almost insurmountable. What I do

830
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: know is, now that you've asked me to be their friend,

831
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: I'm not going to turn my face and give them

832
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: a blind eye when they don't know how they're going

833
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 2: to get food tonight to feed their kids, or how

834
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 2: on Monday they're going to get gas in their car

835
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: to get back to work because they got a job.

836
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: They just can barely get by. So either you give

837
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 2: them money or I'm going to give them money. That

838
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: was the starting point. So I I was skeptical, and

839
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 2: so I said, Okay, any amount of money we give folks,

840
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 2: it's not just that you know, there's are they going

841
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: to blow it on substances? We can have that conversation

842
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: right outside of that, A couple hundred dollars a month

843
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: was that going to do? How is that going to

844
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: make it do for anyone?

845
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: Right?

846
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: It's like it's Bay Area where I was based.

847
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: You would almost say a couple hundred bucks a month

848
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: will absolutely go into a bottle or a needle because

849
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: it's not going to do anything else.

850
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know, didn't know. But again, the best thing

851
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: I've done on this whole journey bill is that I

852
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: started from this premise of I don't know a thing

853
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: about homelessness. I've never lived a day of my life homeless.

854
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: I had an uncle who was almost a lot people

855
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: have had uncles who were homeless. So I was just

856
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: listening to people, right, and I heard over and over

857
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: again people say, I give them money. They need the money.

858
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: Who's going to do it? So we raised a little

859
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 2: bit of money, all private, right, individual philanthropy, no tax money, yeah,

860
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: no public fund no, no, no, it's just you know,

861
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: a little experiment. Let's try it, yeah, pilot, let's just

862
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 2: try this out. We raised about fifty thousand dollars to

863
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: give out five hundred dollars a month for six months.

864
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: We could afford given it to fourteen people who are

865
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: in our Phone Buddy program. All of them had been

866
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 2: nominated by their own house friends. That's cool, vouching for right.

867
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: And we had, you know, at that point, eighty people

868
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: in the prom participating eighty pairs. And I think we

869
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: had about fifty or sixty nominations. So the vast majority

870
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: select fourteen individuals from those fifty or sixty five hundred

871
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: dollars a month for six months. Within six months, two

872
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: thirds of those individuals who had secured who were able

873
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,439
Speaker 2: to secure housing using that five hundred dollars a month,

874
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: they off off the streets sixty sixty percent. Super small

875
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: sample size, like let's says, not scientific, This is two

876
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 2: thirds of them secured housing. You know, Elizabeth became eligible

877
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: for senior housing, which required a minimum monthly contribution. She

878
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: was able to make that. She's now in her forever.

879
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: Ray was able to find a housemate, ay towards half

880
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: the month's rent out of state, moved in in Kansas

881
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: with a housemate, and you can kind of go on

882
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 2: by this person was able to get into an s sorrow.

883
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: This person was now not feeling like they'd be a

884
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: burden to go live with their family and pay a

885
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: little bit every month. Oh, they want to pay to

886
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: their family. They want they wanted to participate over their

887
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: portion like that, that same desire of not wanting to

888
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 2: be a burden, that disconnection, that's because of that individual responsibility,

889
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: that ethos is in our unhoused neighbors, hearts and minds too.

890
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: Do you think them knowing it was six months, right?

891
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 2: Six months five bucks?

892
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: Do you think them knowing that there was a sunset

893
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: date on this gift also helped? In other words, I

894
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: got six months to use this money to get something done,

895
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: because I think if you just say you're getting five

896
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month, but if you're getting five hundred

897
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: dollars a month with a sunset date, this is your shot.

898
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: This is your chance to get a little bit of

899
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: a hand up. This is not a handout, but a

900
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: hand up. Do you think a sunset date helps for some?

901
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: For some?

902
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: I think it's also for some Like if you have

903
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: zero dollars and then you know you're going to get

904
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars a month for six months, I'm immediately

905
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: feeling anxious about what's happening after month six, no doubt, right,

906
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: So it's not like you're just settling into your life.

907
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: That's fair, that makes sense, right, And what we saw

908
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: just as interesting because that again super small sample size.

909
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: We wouldn't be able to replicate that two thirds game

910
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: off the streets. It was an odd time also with

911
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: the pandemic and things going on. But what we saw

912
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: just as interesting, and to this, you know, rubbed the

913
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: wrong way or this bristle at that you mentioned, looked

914
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 2: at spending habits. Third of the money was spent on food,

915
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: a third was spent on housing or rent, the last

916
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: third spent on everything from childcare to emergencies, to storage,

917
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: to pain down debt to close how much stylcohol about

918
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 2: two percent, which was less than when we started.

919
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: That's not what the fearmongers on the news say will

920
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: happen because they want you to keep watching the news.

921
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: I love you. That's right, that's exactly right. You're no

922
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: longer goofy. You're brilliant.

923
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: But it's true.

924
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: It's It's one of the things we talk about all

925
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: the time is that there's an enormous amount of power

926
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: and wealth concentrated in the narrative makers. And the more

927
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: that they scare you and the more they freak you out,

928
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: the more you tune in. And unfortunately, the dumber we

929
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: get about the issues that are really facing us.

930
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: And so we because I wanted to figure out the

931
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: scientific part of this, we ended up growing on this.

932
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: And I was skeptical at first. Remember this whole thing

933
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 2: direct cash just got with the gees right. The whole

934
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 2: thing ended up getting some funding from Google dot Org,

935
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 2: a few you know, private families, individuals, no government funding

936
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: into this, but we're able to get two point one

937
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 2: million dollars and created a randomized controlled trial where we

938
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: gave out seven hundred and fifty dollars a month for

939
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: twelve months to over one hundred people experiencing homelessness all

940
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: throughout the state of California. We're going to be releasing

941
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: the results for that pretty soon. But what I can

942
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: tell you is, are you breaking news on my show?

943
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: Ratios? Are you breaking some news on.

944
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: My shreaking news? I got the eyeballs too.

945
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: Here we go.

946
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: The ratios of where money was spent is almost identical

947
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: to that small little pilot about a third on housing,

948
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 2: third on food, and the last third food or sorry

949
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: childcare emergencies clothes. The first person who I we gave

950
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: the money to Elizabeth. The first thing she did with

951
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: the money was she made a donation to Miracle Messages.

952
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: You're kidding me, and I respond. I looked at her.

953
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: I was like, Elizabeth, you didn't need to do this.

954
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: This wasn't part of the expectation. She looked at me

955
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 2: and she said, I kid you not. She says, well,

956
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: I didn't do it for you. I did it for

957
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 2: my elf, so I could once again feel the dignity

958
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: of being able to support the causes I believe. But

959
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: to me, this is not just a question about the

960
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 2: base of massos hierarchy, food, water, shelter, clothing, housing, which

961
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: we all need. This is about love, belonging, community, dignit.

962
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: So as I hear all of this, maybe this what's

963
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: the catchphrase for this thing? What's the catchphrase for actually

964
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: just providing money for the homeless thing? It's the not

965
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: the catch phrase. What's the term university direct cash? Just

966
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: direct cash transfers basic income?

967
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: There, basic income, I mean basic income. Though it can

968
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,760
Speaker 2: get into a loaded thing that assumes like everyone's getting

969
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: basic income same amount. It gets the political you know,

970
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: like it just at the end of the day, we're

971
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: giving people cash. Right now, we're spending cash.

972
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: But we're giving them cash and not really providing a

973
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: lot of oversight, but trusting that they're going to do

974
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:56,959
Speaker 1: the right things.

975
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: What the base is So far, your two pilots have

976
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: proven they spend it better than we could have spent it.

977
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: For them. That's the point. Yeah, bottom up, not top down. Yeah,

978
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: that's right. And we trust people, and so if you

979
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: want people to act as you'd like them to act,

980
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 2: you treat them the way you'd want to be treated. Shocking,

981
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 2: the golden rule still works. Really think some of us

982
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: skipped kindergarten.

983
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna let you sign off in

984
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: a special way.

985
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: But first I want you to.

986
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: If those of those listening have been convinced that they

987
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: can be a message friend, they can be a sleuth person.

988
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: What do you call miracle messenger? What's the sleuth?

989
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 2: People think it could be a digital detective, a digital detector,

990
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: or join a chapter, a little chap chapter, all of

991
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: these things. More.

992
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: Other thing too is probably a lot of people listening

993
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 3: either know people at the local homeless shelter or they

994
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: volunteer with them or ready, and so there probably is

995
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: a great part. I think you guys already partnering with

996
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: like eighty homeless shelters around the country. That and they're

997
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 3: local ones. If they can hook the local ones up

998
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 3: with miracle messages, So how.

999
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 2: Do they find out all that stuff? Yeah, they can

1000
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 2: reach out to me if they want, so, my email

1001
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: is Kevin at Miracle Messages dot org or go to

1002
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: our website.

1003
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: We have a get.

1004
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: Involved form Miracle Messages dot org and then click the

1005
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: get involved link and then just let us know how

1006
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: you're interested in getting involved. We'll connect you up with

1007
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 2: other folks in your community. If you're interested in doing

1008
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 2: local outreach at a local partner site, we'll do the training,

1009
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 2: the support. But yeah, we need if there's no other

1010
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: lesson this book, from this conversation and what I wrote

1011
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: in my book, it's that we say Miracle Messages, no

1012
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 2: one should go through homelessness alone. I wish I could

1013
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: end that a word early. No one should go through homelessness.

1014
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: But well, homelessness is a thing. It should not be

1015
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: a fundamentally isolating, other rising thing. And second part of

1016
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 2: the mission, as we say, no one should feel helpless

1017
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: on this issue. There's just way too much good work

1018
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: for people to do.

1019
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: So if through our conversation you've been convinced you need

1020
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: to get involved, that's how you get in touch. If

1021
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: through my conversation on a cerebral or academic level, maybe

1022
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: some of your pre can conceived notions have been challenged,

1023
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: which I have to admit some of mine have the

1024
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: book When We Walk By Forgotten Humanity. The titles When

1025
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: We Walk By the subtitle is Forgotten Humanity, Broken Systems

1026
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: in the role we can each play in ending Homelessness

1027
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: in America by Publishers Weekly. I must read for anyone

1028
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: interesting and solving the problem of homelessness, and I don't

1029
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: know anybody walk in the face of the planet the

1030
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: United States that isn't interested, either from an idealistic or

1031
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: pragmatic stance, to understand this is an issue got solved.

1032
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: And so the book might challenge some preconceived notions, and

1033
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: for some of you it might solidify the way you've thought.

1034
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: But I highly suggest it because it uses data fact

1035
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: in real life experience to kind of open our minds

1036
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: to the things we can be doing differently we must

1037
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: be doing. So often talk in speeches about my wife Lisa,

1038
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: because she's hot and she's also pretty cool. I tell

1039
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: people she's my compass because it is when I start

1040
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: thinking far too great of myself that she will remind

1041
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: me that I'm just a jackass from Memphis who coaches

1042
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: football and as a lover company. And you know, if

1043
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: you leave d C and fly all the way around

1044
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: the world and land back in DC. If your compass

1045
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: is off only three degrees by the time you get

1046
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: back to d C, you would actually land in Nova Scotia.

1047
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: Three percent doesn't sound like a lot, but on the

1048
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: trip of life, if you get off off path only

1049
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: three degrees, you will be so far away from what

1050
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: you're supposed to end up. And we need a compass.

1051
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: Seems to me you have one too. I thought i'd

1052
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: let you read this and hopefully she'll listen.

1053
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: If I seem a bit more patient at work these days,

1054
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: and listen more fully before responding. If I've grown as

1055
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 2: a leader by admitting more of what I don't know,

1056
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: which is a lot, and bring a little more playfulness

1057
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: into public speaking. If I'm a better colleague, thought, partner,

1058
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: and friend, it's because I married my best friend.

1059
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: When did that happen?

1060
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: We had our wedding about a year ago. Yeah, this

1061
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: past weekend, Memorial Day weekend graduation.

1062
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, And I guess she's as vested in

1063
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: this as you are.

1064
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: Has to be her first question to me when we

1065
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: met through one of the dating apps. She her first

1066
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: question is what are your values?

1067
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 4: Asking that is enough? You know, just like, oh, okay,

1068
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 4: going there, Okay, we're going to start there's Yeah, she's

1069
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 4: the best human I've ever met. It's an incredible person,

1070
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 4: incredibly warm, and incredibly strong, like my mom. I mean,

1071
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 4: it's you know, I see a lot of those qualities.

1072
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 4: I wish they had had a chance to meet.

1073
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 2: She's she inspires me every day to be a better person,

1074
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: but loves me unconditionally.

1075
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: You and when I'm not, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, dude,

1076
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: I think you're doing God's work. I think you're doing

1077
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: God's work both for the homelessness and for families. But

1078
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: maybe even now, after these ten years and you have

1079
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: a staff doing the minutia of the daily maybe even now,

1080
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: the work is to is to use this platform to

1081
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: change minds, open eyes, challenge preconceived notions of perspective, and

1082
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: maybe maybe lead us as a as a culture to

1083
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: finding solutions for a problem that afflex us all. And

1084
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: so I applaud you. I'm inspired by you, and I

1085
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: really thank you for joining us and telling us your story.

1086
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: And I'll let you tease as we end the next project.

1087
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 2: It's an honor to be here with you. I Yeah,

1088
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: just a big fan of yours. And the work you've no.

1089
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 3: Thanks, you actually haven't mentioned that, Kevin tell Bill you've

1090
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 3: seen Undefeated like a decade ago, and if.

1091
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 2: You did a decade ago. And I even found it

1092
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 2: in my spreadsheet of the movies I've seen with a

1093
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: little bit of my my synopsis and takeaways. It's like

1094
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: terrific film of life and life lessons on and off

1095
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 2: the football field.

1096
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: Well, thank you? Did you say this, goofy fat read

1097
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: at a guy catching football? You should have said something

1098
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: like that better.

1099
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: If you're goofy, then I'll embrace that.

1100
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: Good.

1101
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 2: I love it. Now with the next project, let's in

1102
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 2: there so planning to start working on my next book.

1103
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: And that book is you know, when we walk by

1104
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: is really trying to answer this question why are so

1105
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 2: many people experiencing homelessness? You hear that all the time,

1106
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: talk about the broken systems, the broken humanity, and one

1107
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 2: hundred pages of solutions for those broken humanity, broken systems.

1108
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: Equally important question that just never gets asked. With one

1109
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: out of two Americans a paycheck away from not paying rent,

1110
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: forty percent of people don't know where they get four

1111
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 2: hundred bucks for emergency, Why aren't more people experiencing homelessness.

1112
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: Why is in half the country homeless right now? And

1113
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 2: the hypothesis is, it's family, it's friends, it's community, it's

1114
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: faith based groups, it's social capital doubled up, tripled up

1115
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 2: informal economy making up that difference. I don't think that

1116
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 2: gets talked about nearly enough, and I don't think that's

1117
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: well understood.

1118
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: Also, maybe part of the answer.

1119
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: I think if it's happening, it needs to be invested in.

1120
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 2: And then it raises questions like what does public policy

1121
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: need to look like? If social support is playing this

1122
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 2: critical but overlooked role, how do we make sure it's

1123
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: reinforced and supported? All right, well, I'm right the damn

1124
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: things talking to have you about? Okay, that sounds good.

1125
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, thanks for being with us, Appreciate you.

1126
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: I agree, and thank you for joining us this week.

1127
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: If Kevin Atler has inspired you in general, or better yet,

1128
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: to take action by referring someone experiencing homelessness to miracle messages,

1129
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: becoming a digital detective, joining the phone buddy program, engaging

1130
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: your local shelter about miracle messages, donating to them, or

1131
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: something else entirely, let me know. I want to hear

1132
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at

1133
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: normalfolks dot us and I will respond. If you enjoyed

1134
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: this episode, please share it with friends and on social

1135
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, Join the

1136
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: army at normal folks dot us. Consider becoming a Premium

1137
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: member there all of these things, any and all of

1138
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: these things that will help us grow and Army of

1139
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what

1140
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: you can.

1141
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: M