1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will? What's that Mango? So you've 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: probably noticed that ugly Christmas sweaters have become big business 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: over the last decade, with some companies breaking in as 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: much as five million dollars each year from kitchy knitwear. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: But do you know that the sweaters also have their 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: very own holiday? Yeah? 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: I think I think they call it a Christmas right. 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, But a truly goers sweater deserves to be seen 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: more than at least one year, and that's why. Ever 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: since twenty eleven, the third Friday in December has been 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: set aside as National Ugly Christmas Sweater Day. The practice 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: started here in the US, but it's now celebrated by 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: the fashionably unfashionable all across the world. Some people mark 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: the day by running a charity race, throwing a party, 16 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: or organizing a pup. But you can really celebrate however 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: you want provide. Of course, you also do it while 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: wearing a chunky, cheerful sweater. 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 2: You know when this whole thing started with the ugly 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: and ridiculous Christmas sweaters, I have to admit I didn't 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: see it having this kind of staying power that whole 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: like day glows sweaters with tensil and pom poms and 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 2: light up reindeer. It's just not something I fully expected 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: to stick around this long. 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it actually turns out that ugly Christmas sweaters 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: are a much older concept than you might think. The 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: idea of wearing special festive sweaters for the holidays dates 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: back to at least the Victorian era, but back then 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: they were advertised simply as Christmas sweaters, and the designs 30 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: were farm were reserved. But things changed by the nineteen 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: thirties with the rival of so called jingle bell sweaters, 32 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: which featured both embroidered bells and real metal ones that 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: would jingle as you walked. 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: So, as you think back to those earlier times, or 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: you think back to the nineteen thirties or whatever like, 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: were those sweaters ironic as well? 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: No, they were still considered tasteful at that point, even 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: elegant in some cases, and by the fifties, sweaters started 39 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: incorporating things like Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer and Frosty 40 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: the Snowmen, especially on kids Christmas sweaters, and as the 41 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: decades progressed, adults continued to favor more subtle designs, things 42 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: like snowflake patterns or argyle made to look like wrapping paper. 43 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: But it isn't until the nineteen eighties that Christmas sweaters 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: became truly tacky. Designs of previous decades had mostly stuck 45 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: to one holiday icon per sweater, but designers of the 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: eighties adopted sort of a kitchen sink approach. Right. They 47 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: put on candy canes, and then they threw on Christmas 48 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: trees and skiing polar bears, and it all went onto 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: the same garments. 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 2: All right, So I have to guess by this point 51 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: you're finally seeing that this is like a joke, right, 52 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: like where they considered a joke at that point, I 53 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: need you to get to the point where they become 54 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: a joke. 55 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: So it it doesn't become a joke until ten years 56 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: later in the nineteen nineties, when American culture gets a 57 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: little more jaded and movies like Dumb and Dumbers start 58 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: making holiday sweater jokes. But from then on, ugly Christmas 59 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: sweaters became something to wear ironically, and people started competing 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: to find the most over the top patterns. In fact, 61 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: the growing trend pretty much wiped out the supply at 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: thrift stores, and by the twenty first century, companies were 63 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: pumping out brand new, purposely TACKI designs to meet the demand. 64 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: Set Mango, this is like a roller coaster for me 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: because I'm now I'm going the opposite direction where it 66 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: doesn't feel tongue in cheek enough when people are buying 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: these things off the racket full price. So I don't know. 68 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: We're gonna have to talk through this. 69 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: That is definitely true. But our ugly sweater history is 70 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: just the first of nine warm facts to usher in 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: sweater season. So let's get cozy and dive in. 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 73 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 74 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: friend mangesh Hot Ticketerter and on the other side of 75 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: that soundproof glass. I have to be honest, I was 76 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: looking forward to this today because you never know what 77 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: this guy's going to be up to. He's a super 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: talented guy. As we've discussed many many times before. He's 79 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: knitting a sweater for everything. Today of course, knit himself 80 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: a holiday sweater. He knitted ones for each of us, 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: which was very kind, and then he made a sweater 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: for the lamp in there, made a cozy frame for 83 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: the whiteboard in there. It's actually getting a little bit 84 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: out of hand, but that's our talented producer, Dylan Fagan 85 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: over there. 86 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he said he wasn't going to stop 87 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: until he'd yarn bombed the entire studio, and I don't 88 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: know exactly what that means, but he clearly has a vision. 89 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: So yes, well we're talking sweaters today, a topic I 90 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: know since the first day we started the show all 91 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: these years ago, you said, Mango, we have got to 92 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: do a show on sweaters, but not yet, not yet, 93 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: not yet. 94 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: It wasn't ready. 95 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: And then last week you were like, remember how I 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: wanted to do that show on sweaters all those years ago. 97 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: Now is the time. It's finally the time to do this. 98 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: What fact do you want to start with? 99 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to get you in studio immediately 100 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: to do and you weren't ready at that point. But 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: now we're both here, We're both ready. Dylan's ready, And 102 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: of course, in doing a whole episode on sweaters, the 103 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: first thing I looked up, which won't surprise you, was 104 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: the story behind the Sweater Song from Weezer. 105 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: Oh man, I know that song as Undone, and I 106 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: feel so old because that song came out like our 107 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: freshman year of high school. 108 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been it's been a minute, for sure. But 109 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: you know what's interesting is that the Sweater Song, which 110 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: was their first big breakout song, was also the first 111 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: Weezer song that frontman Rivers Cuomo ever wrote. 112 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: I had no idea. 113 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I always thought Undone was this quirky fun song, 114 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: but it's actually more bleak than you might think. So, 115 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: as Cuomo told Billboard Magazine, people thought we were just 116 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: being sarcastic and ironic. But when I wrote the Sweater song, 117 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: to me, it was a very sad song about depression, 118 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: and people heard it and they thought it was hysterical. 119 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: That is so weird. I do not associate that with 120 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: any sort of rough emotions. It's just like a happy, 121 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: fun song to me. 122 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently this goes back a few years before Weezer's 123 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: first album. The band was struggling to stand out in 124 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: the LA music scene, so Cuomo decided to enroll in 125 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: community college sort of as a backup plan, and then 126 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: one day, during a lecture on essay writing. He had 127 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 2: an English professor who was explaining the importance of a 128 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: strong thesis statement, and he likened it to the thread 129 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: of a sweater. He was explaining, a strong thesis statement 130 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: gives kind of shape to the entire essay, but a 131 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: weak one is like a loose thread. So if you 132 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: pull on it, the whole thing unravels. Image sticks with Cuomo, 133 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: and so after class it goes home and he incorporates 134 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: it into a chorus. Three years later, the same song 135 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: proved to be the big break the band had been 136 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: looking for. I always love stories like this, like you 137 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: never know where the inspiration is going to come from. 138 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: But while the Sweater song might not be as funny 139 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: as people think, the band did have a sense of 140 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: humor about it by the time they came to shoot 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: the music video, as all four members made sure not 142 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: to wear a sweater for the filming. 143 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: That's funny. So since we're talking sweaters, of course, I've 144 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: got to bring up my main man, Fred Rogers. Now, 145 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: we did a whole episode dedicated to mister Rogers way 146 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen, which people should check out if 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: they haven't, and in it we mentioned one of the 148 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: most well known facts about him, which is that many 149 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: of the cardigans Fred wore on the show were actually 150 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: knit for him by his mother. But one thing we 151 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: didn't cover in that episode is what a hard time 152 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: the production team had trying to source new sweaters for 153 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: Fred after his mom passed away in nineteen eighty one. 154 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: So the stockpile of hand knit sweaters she left behind 155 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: kept her son Confiance screen for upout another ten years. 156 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: But by the early nineteen nineties, after two dozen seasons 157 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: and hundreds of episodes, many of the garments were starting 158 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: to look their age right. They were starting to get 159 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: a little threadbare, and it was clear that a new 160 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: crop of cardigans was needed. But of course, this is 161 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: public television we're talking about, and the show didn't have 162 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: this huge budget commission a new hand knit wardrobe or 163 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: anything like that, So instead the art department launched this 164 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: desperate search for lookalike sweaters. They poured through catalogs, they 165 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: hunted the rats at stores all over Pittsburgh, but nothing 166 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: they found matched the style of Fred's trademark cardigans, And, 167 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: as the show's producer explained to Smithsonian quote, nobody wore 168 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: those zippered sweaters. They just weren't cool then, so what 169 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: do they end up doing? The show's art director Kathy 170 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: Borland found a suitable stand in. Eventually, it wasn't from 171 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: a store, though. She actually spotted a postal worker on 172 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: the street wearing a zippered cardigan that kind of looked 173 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: like Fred, so she chases him down. She gets the 174 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: name of the manufacturer from his sweater's label, Like I 175 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: imagine her just sort of like pulling it and looking 176 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: at the tag, although I'm sure it was a lot 177 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: nicer than that, And she was able to buy a 178 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: whole bunch of white sweaters and then she dyed them 179 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: different colors in this giant soup pot. 180 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: That's amazing. I know you said she probably was very 181 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 2: nice about it, and I'm sure she was, But I 182 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: also like to imagine her in a sense of panic 183 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: and just having to basically like rip this thing and 184 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: being like I need it for mister Rogers. That I 185 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 2: get it, I get it. I would happily dedicate a 186 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: sweater to that, But you know, I know that he 187 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: wore different colored sweaters, but honestly, when I picture mister Rogers, 188 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: he's always wearing a red one. 189 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Yeah, I think most people 190 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: actually remember the red ones because that's the color he's 191 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: usually wearing in all the marketing materials. He also donated 192 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: a red sweater to the National Museum of American History 193 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: if after his mom died. It was one of the 194 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: ones she had knit for him, and he was always 195 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: so proud that something she had handmade was in the Smithsonian, 196 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: which you know, is super sweet. 197 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 2: That is very sweet. It does make me curious, though, 198 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: and I know this is the type of thing that 199 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: our crew loves to dig into. Did he wear a 200 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: certain color more than the rest or was it pretty 201 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: evenly split? 202 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: I actually had a similar question, and Gabe looked into 203 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: this and he found a data writer named Owen Phillips 204 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: who made this handy chart that tracks the color of 205 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: every sweater mister Rogers wore from nineteen seventy nine until 206 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: the show's finale in two thousand and one. And the 207 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: chart actually does reveal some fun surprises. For instance, Fred 208 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: wore a neon blue cardigan exactly one time in the 209 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties and then never again. 210 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: That's a little too wild, I think. 211 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: Also as the years went by, mister Rogers gradually moved 212 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: away from pastels in favor of darker earth tones, And 213 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: in fact, it turns out that green was the color 214 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: he wore most frequently. He donned a green sweater in 215 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: seventy four episodes, compared to just fifty four in which 216 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: he wore a red one. That said Fred Rogers was 217 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: also red green colorblind, so really it all looked brown 218 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: to him. 219 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: And I also would like to see if there's data 220 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 2: on which one Eddie Murphy wore most often playing mister Robinson. 221 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: Of course, a spoof of mister Rogers on SNL. So, Gabe, 222 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: if you can look into that, that will be helpful 223 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: in the next very helpful. 224 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. So. 225 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: One thing I didn't realize is that there was a 226 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: time where you could actually receive negative attention for wearing sweaters. 227 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: And this is a story about a woman named Francine Godfried, 228 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 2: and for a brief period in the late nineteen sixties, 229 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: she was better known to New Yorkers as Wall Street's 230 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: sweater Girl. Now, this goes back to a more prudish 231 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 2: era when in the mid twentieth century many people were 232 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: downright scandalized by the side of a woman in a 233 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: tight sweater. In fact, the derice of terms sweater girl 234 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: was going to describe any woman who wore a tight, 235 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: form fitting sweater. This was a look that was popularized 236 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: by Hollywood actresses like Glanna Turner Jane Mansfield. But in 237 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, the most famous woman to sport it 238 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: was this twenty one year old clerical worker named Francine Gottfried. 239 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: She was a Brooklyn native. She lived with her parents 240 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: in Williamsburg, and she just started working in New York's 241 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: Financial District in May of that year. But by late August, 242 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: there was a small group of men who had taken 243 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: notice to the tight sweater she wore, and they began 244 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: timing her daily arrival at the Wall Street subway station. 245 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: This all sounds so weird, but it's actually true. So 246 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 2: over the next few weeks, those initial group of gawkers 247 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: told their creepy buddies, until finally, in mid September, there 248 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: were more than two thousand leering men just waiting to 249 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: catch a glimpse of her, some of whom reportedly climb 250 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: trees and lampposts to get a better view. I mean, 251 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 2: how strange is this mango? 252 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: That is so weird? Also, can you I mention how 253 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: scary that must have been, Like You're just trying to 254 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: go to work and suddenly there's this mob of Wall 255 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: Street guys lining up to augle you at the subway. 256 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: It sounds terrible and it's obviously very strange, But the 257 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: wildest part is that the crowd of sweater girl watchers 258 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: just kept growing. So in the afternoon of September I'm 259 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: not kidding, like these numbers are just bananas here. So 260 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: on the afternoon of September nineteenth, more than five thousand people, 261 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 2: five thousand people left to work early to go watch 262 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: fran scene exit the subway. There must not have been 263 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: anything in the world interesting happening at that point, and 264 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: it was such a madhouse that police had to close 265 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: the streets and escort her through the crowd. And this 266 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: chaotic scene was reported by all the papers later that day, 267 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: with the New York Times even publishing Francene's measurements, which 268 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: is perhaps the most upsetting part of all of this. 269 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: It's like, you expect certain people to just be dumb 270 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: about certain things, but when a paper like that joins 271 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: in and is publishing stuff like that, it's just it's 272 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: just ridiculous. 273 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: And I'm sure getting more press attention only slowed down 274 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: the crowds right right, people were over it by the 275 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: end of the reporting. 276 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: Exactly right. Well, unfortunately, the following day the crowd doubled 277 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: to ten thousand people. I know, all this sounds like 278 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: a joke and I'm just going to keep making up 279 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: bigger numbers, but this is true now, that is no, 280 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: You're exactly right. And none of them got what they 281 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: wanted that day, as Francine stayed home, understandably for her 282 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: own safety, but the mob was unfazed. They came back 283 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: the next day to try again, and so The Times 284 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: of course gets in on the action. Reporting on it, 285 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: they described the anticipation, writing quote ticker tape floated down 286 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,119 Speaker 2: from the high buildings. Newspapers as far away as Australia 287 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: waited for pictures, and for the second day, a cheering, 288 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: good natured crowd of more than ten thousand jammed Broad 289 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: Street in front of the New York Stock Exchange and 290 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: nearby Wall Street from wall to wall. 291 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: That's so crazy, one that like international press was suddenly 292 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: coming in for this, but also like to call it 293 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: good nature. It feels so bizarre. 294 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what stood out to me. 295 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: But what happened, like did Franccene start driving to work 296 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: or go incognito or what happens from here? 297 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: Not exactly. I mean she did start getting off at 298 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: a different station, and about a year later she reportedly 299 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: left her job on Wall Street. And I do want 300 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: to note that Francine was not the first or even 301 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: the last sweater girl to be leered at by big 302 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: crowds on Wall Street. But it is interesting to see 303 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: how the growing women's movement decided to push back. 304 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: How did they do that? 305 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy the first national oglein was held 306 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: in Wall Street in which women use these cat calls 307 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: and harassed stockbrokers on their way to work to make 308 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: a statement both in real life and depressed that they 309 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: were tired of being pestered and objectified when they were 310 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: just trying to walk down the street to work. 311 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: That's interesting that that was the way they pushed back. 312 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: But why don't we move away from the upsetting side 313 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: of sweaters and back to the cozy side. And what 314 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: better way to do that than by telling you and 315 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: our audiences about the Australian Wildlife Clinic that distributes handmade 316 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: sweaters to penguins. 317 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: You know what, coming into this, I knew I could 318 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: count on you for a good mister Rogers fact, and 319 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: I knew you'd find something good related to animals and 320 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: penguins just takes it to another level. So why do 321 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: they give out sweaters to penguins? 322 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: You know? Well, I thought you'd never ask, but. 323 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 324 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: The program started in the late nineteen nineties after a 325 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: series of oil spills off Australia's Phillip Island threatened local wildlife, 326 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: including the island sizable population of little penguins. And to 327 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: be clear, I'm not trying to be cute here. The 328 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: species name is actually called quote little penguins. They're like 329 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: these pocket sized penguins, also known as fairy penguins, and 330 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: most of them are about twelve inches tall. 331 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, that's pretty cute. So I have to 332 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: ask why do penguins need sweaters other than the fact 333 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: that obviously it sounds adorable. 334 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, every tiny animal should own a winter or wardrobe 335 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: of sweat. 336 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: But I forget I asked, Yeah, that's right. 337 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: So, actually, oil spills are a problem for penguins of 338 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: any size because oil clumps their feathers together, and this 339 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: can expose their skin to freezing temperatures, but it can 340 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: also weigh them down as they swim and they hunt 341 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: for food. And the worst part is that when a 342 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: penguin tries to preen and clean off the oil with 343 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: their beaks, they actually wind up ingesting the oil, which 344 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: of course makes them sick. So these sweaters act as 345 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: a barrier to keep the penguins from picking at their 346 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: oily feathers, at least until the rescue staff can wash 347 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: them and clean them. 348 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: It's a really smart idea and really sweet too, but 349 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it is still sort of weird, but 350 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: that's I like that they came up with it. 351 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the practice was pioneered by the rehabilitation team 352 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: at Phillip Island's Penguin Foundation. They started a program called 353 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: Knits for Nature to collect as many tiny sweaters or 354 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: jumpers as they're called there from local volunteers. Then, as 355 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: word spread, people began to knit and donate penguin sweaters 356 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: from all over the world, and they've collected well over 357 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand sweaters over the last couple decades, although 358 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: not all of them are deemed suitable for actual penguins, 359 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: like some are too big or too small to fit correctly, 360 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: and others came embellished with like pomp pomps that would 361 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: potentially pose a choking hazard. But you don't have to 362 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: worry about it. Those sweaters still get used. All of 363 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: the takier sweaters, like all the Christmas sweaters, etc. Are 364 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: put on plush penguin toys and then sold to raise 365 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: funds for the island's conservation efforts. And since twenty twelve, 366 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: the sale of the sweater penguin plushies has raised roughly 367 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars. 368 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: That is wild and pretty awesome. So are they still 369 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: accepting donations then yeah, but at. 370 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: This point and it's for nature, has enough sweaters to 371 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: meet demand for many seasons to come. But they still 372 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: accept sweaters to sell on their plush penguins. So for 373 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: any animal loving knitters out there, you can find all 374 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: the information and the free jumper patterns at Penguin Foundation 375 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: dot org. 376 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: That's pretty cool, all right. Well to go in a 377 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 2: different direction though, I guess a little bit animal related. 378 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: Did you know that one famous musician wore a sweater 379 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: so distinctive that it actually inspired his lifelong stage name. 380 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: Please say it's Snoop Doggy Dog. 381 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: I will not say that. It is not Snoop Dogg 382 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: and it's not bad Bunny either. It's actually Sting, the 383 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 2: former frontman of the Police and current Mega mentor on 384 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 2: NBC's The Voice Mengo Mega Mentor. That's how it's amazing. 385 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: His birth name is Gordon Matthew Sumner, which I actually 386 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 2: did not know that. But he often wore a black 387 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 2: and yellow striped sweater as a teenager, and his bandmates 388 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 2: teased them for looking like a giant bee, and so 389 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: they started to call him Stif. 390 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: That's really funny. For some reason, I always assumed it 391 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: was like a nod to the Lord of the Rings 392 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: because Frodo has that little glowing sword called Sting. But 393 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: oh yeah, getting a nickname from a funny looking sweater 394 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: is way way better. And I actually really love that 395 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: he kept the nickname all those years later. 396 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. By the way, if anyone ever wondered whether we're nerds, 397 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: we give them one little fact like that every once 398 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: in a while that you thought maybe it came from 399 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings and remembered the name of the 400 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 2: sword that Frodo had it's pretty great. We need one 401 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: of those every episode. But you know, it doesn't sound 402 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: like he had much of a choice with this nickname. 403 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: His friends started calling him Sting even after he stopped 404 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: wearing the beast ripe sweater. Then, to make matters worse, 405 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: his mom started using it. In fact, in twenty eleven, 406 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: the singer told Time magazine, even my wife calls me Sting. 407 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: I was never called Gordon. You could shell Gordon in 408 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 2: the middle of the street and I would just move 409 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 2: out of your way. 410 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: It is really amazing that something as arbitrary as a 411 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: sweater ends up sticking with him for that long. It's nuts, 412 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 1: it really is. 413 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: It is worth noting that while Sting has embraced his 414 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: be based persona, he never went so far as to 415 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: legally adopt it. According to a twenty sixteen interview with 416 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: Howard Stern, Sting's passport still says Gordon Sumner. 417 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: So, after all your music facts, I'm starting to feel 418 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: left out here, so I'm gonna skip ahead and throw 419 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: one of my own in. This fact is about Nirvana 420 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: frontman Kurt Cobain, because as of twenty twenty four, his 421 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: sweater is the most expensive sweater ever sold at auction, 422 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: And I'm sure you know this what I'm talking about. 423 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: It's the olive green one. Yeah, that was on MTV's 424 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: Unplugged Concert way back in nineteen ninety four. But the 425 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: show was taped just five months before Cobaine's passing, which 426 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: means that's really the last time a lot of fans, 427 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: including myself, saw him was wearing that sweater on TV. 428 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: And was it something he had worn before? Was it 429 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 2: just part of the wardrobe for the taping. 430 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: No, he definitely warn it before he He worred on 431 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: tour for a few months by that point, and there 432 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: was anything fancy or costume about it. According to the 433 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: Cardigan's label, it was made in the nineteen sixties by 434 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: a company called Manhattan Industries. The fabric is acrylic, mohair 435 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: and lycra and fashion historians think it retailed for about 436 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: sixteen dollars by at that point, but Cobain probably paid 437 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: less for it since he bought it at a thrift 438 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: store in Seattle in the early nineties. 439 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: So how did it end up at auction? 440 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: Well, this is an interesting story. After Kurt's death, Courtney 441 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: Love gave the sweater up to the family's nanny, who 442 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: held on to as a keepsake for about twenty years, 443 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: but in twenty fifteen, she decides to bring it to 444 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: auction because she has cancer and she's trying to pay 445 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: for her cancer treatments. The sweater was expected to fetch 446 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: about fifty thousand dollars at auction, but it wound up 447 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: selling for one hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars instead. 448 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: It is obviously a hefty price tag, but the buyer 449 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: did get a little something extra with his purchase. When 450 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: he reached into one of the pockets, he found what 451 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: he described as quote, some kind of brown crunchy something, 452 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: which he guesses was either chocolate or vomit. 453 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: It feels like you should know the difference, but hold on. 454 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: So the nanny never washed the sweater, I guess not friendly. 455 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: She left it exactly as she had received it twenty 456 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: years earlier, right down to the crunchy treat in the pocket. 457 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 2: But wow. 458 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: The buyer in twenty fifteen also declined to clean it, 459 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: believing that the sweater's musty smell, it's missing button, and 460 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: all the cigarette burns, which had multiple cigarette burns. All 461 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: of this added to the sweater's character and also its value. 462 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: All of this proves to be a wise decision for 463 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: the buyer, because when he put the sweater up for 464 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: auction in twenty nineteen, it sold for three hundred and 465 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: thirty four thousand dollars, more than twice would he pay 466 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: for it, And so I would imagine that's the highest 467 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: auction price ever paid for a sweater. I mean, at 468 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: least until the current owner decides to part with, at 469 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: which point it'll probably go for even more. 470 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would imagine. All right, Well, two more sweater 471 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: facts to go. But before we get to those, let's 472 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: take a quick break. 473 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: You listen to Part Time Genius and we're counting down 474 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: nine thread pulling facts about sweaters. So, will are you 475 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: a sweater guy? Like I wear cardigans a lot, but 476 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: I don't really think of you as wearing sweaters a 477 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: whole bunch. 478 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really personal question, Mango. But part of 479 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: the reason I had been pushing to do this episode 480 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 2: is I'm ready to go ahead and state it publicly 481 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 2: that I have become a sweater guy. For years, I 482 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: was not as a kid. I found them itchy. I 483 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: couldn't do sweaters. I refuse to wear them. But over 484 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: the last few years. Maybe it's a dad thing. I 485 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: don't know, but I am totally a sweater guy now, Mango. 486 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: I love that you finally embraced this about yourself. We've 487 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: been waiting for that moment. 488 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 2: This was my safe space to admit that thing. 489 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: You know, It's funny because I just think about it 490 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: this week. And in elementary school, we had this project 491 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: where we had to figure out, like how we'd live 492 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: as adults, right, so we had to look up apartments 493 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: in the local paper to see where we'd rent a place. 494 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: We learned how to make a food budget and an 495 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: entertainment budget, all of which I've forgotten how to do. 496 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: But as part of that, I actually illustrated how I 497 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: was going to dress. And while I don't live in Wilmington, Delaware, 498 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: I don't eat burritos four times a week. Like like 499 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: my way to say a food budget was like, oh, 500 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: I'll just buy like a bag of frozen fries and 501 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: burritos and I'll use the rest on entertainment. 502 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: I love it. 503 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: But I do dress exactly like a nine year old 504 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: me pictured myself. I wear low top soccer sneakers. I 505 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: wear collared shirts and cardigans. But what's really funny about 506 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: it is like, now, that's fairly common style, but when 507 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: I was in fourth or fifth grade, people were like, 508 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: what is this lazy grandparents style? You want to look like? 509 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: Yep, that's amazing. 510 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it was mister Rogers' influence, but 511 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: something clearly struck a chord with a style sense. So 512 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: what do you want to do with your last sweater fact? 513 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 2: All right, well, I felt like we both got some 514 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 2: things out there. This is great that we've had a 515 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: sweater episode to work out some things. But I liked 516 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: your last penguin fact. So, speaking of sweaters for a 517 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 2: good cause, my next fact takes us back to the 518 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 2: First World War, when the American government promoted knitting as 519 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 2: a patriotic duty. And that may sound like a strange thing, 520 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: but even before US soldiers were deployed overseas, organizations like 521 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: the American Red Cross had encouraged the public to knit 522 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: and donate warm clothing as a way to assist foreign soldiers. 523 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: So it makes a lot of sense. And once the 524 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 2: US formally entered the war in nineteen seventeen, these knitting 525 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: campaigns kicked into high gear. These people were churning out 526 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: roughly three hundred and sixty million knit garments in the 527 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: course of just two years. 528 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: Three hundred and fifty million garments. That is no joke. 529 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: So who is it that is working the needles for 530 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: all this knitting charity? 531 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: You know? That's the thing. These so called wool brigades 532 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: included everybody. You had, kids, adults, senior citizens. Even the 533 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: inmates that sing sing prison were said to a form 534 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: knitting circles and they'd be sitting out in the prison 535 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: yard knitting. It's actually pretty amazing. 536 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I liked the enthusiasm, and I liked that 537 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: they trusted them to do that. 538 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And you know, while most of the 539 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: work was done by women, as you might expect given 540 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: the era, many men did their part as well, and 541 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: the ones who couldn't fight abroad were encouraged to knit 542 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: at work during their lunch hours. And the soldiers who 543 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 2: were wounded on the battlefield actually took the knitting and 544 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: their hospital beds gave them something to think about. 545 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: That is insane, Like, I've never heard of this, So 546 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: what kind of things were all these people knitting? 547 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: A good deal of the output was not surprisingly wool sweaters, 548 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: but patriotic knitters also produced mass quantities of mufflers, scarves, 549 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: you know, most importantly socks, which were in dire need 550 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: because of the brutal conditions of trench warfare. But despite 551 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: all the good intentions there there was a downside to 552 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: sourcing clothing from amateur knitters. Namely, they didn't always know 553 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 2: what they were doing, and so the knitwhere soldiers received 554 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: on the front lines weren't always up to snuff, and 555 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: at least one soldier offered some not so constructive feedback 556 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: in the form of a short poem. I know you 557 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: and I both love it when people expressed their thoughts 558 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 2: through poetry, and I found this from our friends over 559 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: at Atlas Obscura and it reads as follows. A pair 560 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: of socks. They are some fit. I used one for 561 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: a helmet and the other for a mit. Glad to 562 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: hear you're doing your bit, But who the blank said 563 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: you could knit pretty great? Huh. 564 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: It almost feels like that old Cosby showed episode where 565 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: makes theo a shirt and he's complaining about how big 566 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: it is and just like just tucking in and he's like, Denise, 567 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: it's tucked into my. 568 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: Socks, said it was going to pass as as a 569 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: real Gordon Gartreel. I think I'm going to Gartreel. Amazing 570 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: the kinds of things that stick in our brains. 571 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: I do love the idea of how misshapens over the 572 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: knitwear must be. But speaking of getting into knitting, my 573 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: last fact actually starts back in twenty thirteen when the 574 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: Norwegian television network NRK broadcast a special event called National 575 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: Knitting Evening. 576 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 2: I got it, mimengo, that sounds like a long evening. 577 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: You have no idea. The show actually lasted twelve full hours, 578 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: including four hours of knitting commentary, followed by eight and 579 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: a half hours of what the network build is quote 580 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: long quiet sequences of knitting and spinning. 581 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: So wow. 582 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: Of course, this is all for the phenomenon we've discussed 583 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: before called slow TV. Is in this genre of things 584 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: like a seven and a half hour train journey or 585 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: There was actually a trilogy of shows devoted to firewood 586 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: that they did. The three episodes were National Firewood Morning, 587 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: National Firewood Evening, and National Firewood Night. Wow. 588 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: That sounds riveting and I'm glad they did three different 589 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 2: versions because I imagine they are just incredibly different. 590 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, first off, this is supposed to 591 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: be an antidote to the addictive nature of smartphones and 592 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: this smartphone culture we're all part of now, right, But 593 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: also listen to nur Case synopsis because it is really 594 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: really fun. This is what it says about National Knitting 595 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: Evening quote twelve hours non stop knitting. We knit our 596 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: way into the night by dressing up a Harley Davidson 597 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: in knitting clothes, which obviously would appeal to Dylan, but 598 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: also you will get tips on how to knit, learn 599 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: about the history of knitting, and meet enthusiastic knitters. From 600 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: midnight on we capp sure the back to back world 601 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: record from Australia, which means that we will have to 602 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: produce a sweater from sheep's back to humans back in 603 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: less than four hours, fifty one minutes and fourteen seconds, 604 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: which oh they also ended by saying, wish as luck. 605 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: You know, Mango, I feel like you bury the lead 606 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 2: about the back to back challenge. I mean a sweater 607 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: knit off one animal's back onto another, Like now I 608 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: want to. 609 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: See this, I know I do. And apparently Norwegian's felt 610 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: the same way because about one point three million people, 611 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: which is more than a fifth of the total population 612 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: tuned in for National Knitting Evening. The average viewer actually 613 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: stuck around for at least four hours. 614 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: That is wild. You know, it's a difficult decision, Mango. 615 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: It's like, do I go home and hunt for an 616 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: hour of what to watch on Netflix and fall asleep 617 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: before I watch anything, or do I just go straight 618 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: to the knitting and then fall asleep. 619 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you can lose with other option. 620 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: You're right. Well, I know I was the one who's 621 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: been pushing to do this sweater episode. But between the 622 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: penguin fact and the one about Norway's must see TV, 623 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 2: and of course our hero mister Rogers, I think you've 624 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: earned this week's trophy. Mango. 625 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: Oh I love it and I'm really grateful, But did 626 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: you please start a trophy with a tiny knitted cactus? Like? 627 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: Where'd you get this? 628 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: That Dylan is a machine so he knit it for 629 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: me Earlier this week I just had this gut feeling 630 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: you were going to win it. 631 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: Well, I'm guessing you knit a cactus because he loves 632 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: dry humor. I'm gonna place this proudly on my bookshelf 633 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: where I definitely won't water it, but that's gonna do 634 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: it for today's Part Time Genius. If you like our show, 635 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: let us know by writing as a review on Apple 636 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: Podcasts or by hitting us up on our Insta you 637 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: know the handle it's at. Part Time Genius and from Will, Mary, Gabe, 638 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: Dylan and myself, thank you so much for listening and 639 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: bundle up. It's chilli out there. Part Time Genius is 640 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted 641 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: by Will Pearson and Me Mongas Chatikler and research by 642 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered 643 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from 644 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced for iHeart by 645 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: Katrina Norbel and Ali Perry, with social media support from 646 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: Sasha Gay, Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. For more 647 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 648 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.