1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 2: If you're looking to get more gratitude into your life 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 2: to help you in some way, you're not going to 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: find gratitude. It's almost the antithesis of gratitude. Helping one's 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: self is self involved by nature, by design. Gratitude is 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: being grateful to something or someone else. It's outwardly directed, 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: and it necessitates not just a new habit, but an 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 2: entire change of outlook. 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm buzz night and welcome to another Taking a Walk podcast. 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: This is the podcast where I talk with musicians and 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: insiders about their latest work, their reflections, their influences, their 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: stories behind the music. If you liked this episode or 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: other episodes, please share with your friends and kindly spread 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: the word on Taking a Walk, and please leave us 15 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts as well. We would really 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: appreciate that on this episode. One of the nicest and 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: most supremely talented artists of our generation, Peter Himmelman, has 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: been creating and sharing his work for over three decades 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: as a film composer, visual artist, writer and musician. This 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: amazing singer songwriter. He was my first guest on the 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk podcast when we walked on his beautiful 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: farm in Hudson Valley, New York. On November sixteenth, twenty 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: twenty one. Peter's always demand pushing creative boundaries. He has 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: a new book, Suspended by No String, a songwriter's reflection 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: on faith, aliveness and wonder. Let's talk with Peter Himmelman 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: now on taking a walk Peter Himmerman, great to be 27 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: with you nowhere as joyous as being with you in 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: person seeing the donkeys and watching the birds go by 29 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: on your farm. But so great to be with you. 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: Congrats on the book well, Suspended by No String, And 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: you do talk in the book about the birds and 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: the joy of their existence. The starlings get their place 33 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: for sure. What do birds teach us about our faith, 34 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: our aliveness and our wonder? 35 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: Well, that's you just throwing a big question at me 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: this morning, and I'm just gonna have to roll with it. 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: There's no backing out, there's no rehearsal, by the way, 38 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: with this stuff, no pre canned thing. So look, if 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: I had to just riff on that idea, I think 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: that human beings must have an historic fascination with birds. 41 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: Birds show us what acendency is like, They teach us 42 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: about weightlessness, about lifting off from where we are. We 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: are kind of as mortal beings tethered to the ground basically, 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: and tether to our own prejudices and thoughts and reconceived 45 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: notions about things. So maybe it's almost a harbinger in 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: a sign for these times to sort of get to 47 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: a place that's a little higher elevation spiritually, emotionally, intellectually 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: than we've been before. That's my answer to your question. 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 2: Make sure you're write that down. I'm use that thing 50 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: one more time somewhere. 51 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: That's good. I like it. It's gonna go into a 52 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: big muse session. I think for sure you're gonna bring 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: that one with you. I love Paul Riser's comments about 54 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: your book, and I'm gonna make you blush you a 55 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: little bit, He says. The breadth of his knowledge, interests, 56 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: and curiosity is a remarkable thing. He's tapped into it 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: all to concoct this delicious, fun to read, inspiring spiritual soup. 58 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: Grab a spoon and dive in. I promise you will 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: love it. I absolutely love that. What's your favorite soup? 60 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: First of all, right, off the bat, i'd have to 61 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: say minnestrone, And then I like a good fish chowder, 62 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: a Manhattan style fish chowder. 63 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: Because I am I consider myself the self proclaimed Sultan 64 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: of soup. So that's why I had to focus on that. 65 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: But more importantly, how does it make you feel when 66 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: somebody liked Fall Riser and all these amazing other folks 67 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: say these tremendous things about you and your work and 68 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: the book I love Larry Klein's words, and so many others. 69 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: How does this make you feel? 70 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what it's not. First of all, 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: it's not a kick in the pants. I got to 72 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: tell you that much. Some of the people that I 73 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: shared the book with I suspected they might have something 74 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: to say about it. It's very ennobling, it's very heartening, 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: you know. I harken this back to like music. One 76 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: of the it's not the greatest joys. The greatest joy 77 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: of music is perhaps just making it and performing it. 78 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 2: But another one is when musicians that I really respect 79 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: have shown respect for my music. I mean, I think 80 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: that maybe this is universal. No matter who you are 81 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 2: as a creator, even the best people, they have many 82 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: more periods of doubt about what they do than one 83 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 2: might expect. Even some of the greatest musicians that I know, 84 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: they sometimes are like, you know, maybe I'm not as 85 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: good as I think I am. And what I can speak, 86 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: you know, for myself personally from somebody that you really admire. 87 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: It allows you to dig more freely into what it 88 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: is that you do. I'm able to sort of shrug 89 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: off some of these doubts and create more freely and 90 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: more abundantly. 91 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: Can you describe how this book became this passionate, beautiful 92 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: project that you ultimately took to the finish line? Well, 93 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: I had written a. 94 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: Book and came out like in twenty seventeen. It was 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: called let Me Out, Unlock your Creative Mind and Bring 96 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: your Ideas to life, And that was the book had 97 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: a very deliberate premise. It was sort of a study 98 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 2: in some way, not a pedantic one, but just kind 99 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: of an informal one which explored how is it that 100 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: certain people I'll take you for example, are able to 101 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: take an idea like the Taking a Walk podcast and 102 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: actually make it manifest? Well, many others would have an 103 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: idea is something like that, and the idea would just 104 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: sort of fade away. How is it that people that 105 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 2: are productive and sort of are creating things and putting 106 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: them out in the world. What is the mindset that 107 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: they have and what are the ways that they achieve 108 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: those things? And the book had in it a very 109 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: small trace of something that I would call, for lack 110 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: of a better word, spiritual. There's something about creativity which 111 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 2: I almost think is synonymous with spirituality, and discussing that 112 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: with a lot of different artists and musicians and poets 113 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: and friends of mine. People that do create are very 114 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: able to say, yeah, I know what you mean. It's 115 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: kind of it's just part of the thing. They often 116 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: feel that inspirations have come to them, as though in 117 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: a dream, that they're gifted with things. It's not a 118 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: constant thing, but they are familiar with that having happened. 119 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: So I set out to make another sort of sequel 120 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: to let me out another book about creativity. And this 121 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: was another way to sort of get more work from 122 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: my company, Big Muse, which works to sort of teach creativity, 123 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: however one defines it to different corporations like three M 124 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: and Boeing and Gap and other places. 125 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: And as I. 126 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: Started working on that book, it was sort of frustrating. 127 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: I worked on it for years, this sort of sequel, 128 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: and it just wasn't right. It just didn't feel right. 129 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: And I finally, through a couple people that I knew, 130 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: got a hold of this wonderful editor. Her name is 131 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: Barbara Clark, and she's like a real editor. She worked 132 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: I don't know which, If it was random House, I 133 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: don't know where. She worked for many years. She was 134 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: a book agent as well, and I talked to her 135 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: on the phone. 136 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: I liked her. 137 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: We had some rapport with one another, and she said, well, 138 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 2: send me what you have, and you know, for a fee, 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 2: I will send you back a fifteen page, single space 140 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: treatise on what I'm seeing. 141 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: And she did it. 142 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: That was her deliverable, and you know, she liked my 143 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: writerly voice. And she went on and about halfway through 144 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: this little thing that she'd sent me, she said, look, 145 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: I don't see this as a book about creativity so 146 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: much as I see it trying to be a book 147 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: about spirituality. And that was you know how sometimes one 148 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: sentence can be such a liberating thing depending on who's 149 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: saying it. It was such a freeing thing. So I 150 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: worked another two years with that in mind, and I 151 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: created a kind of a prescriptive nonfiction book about spirituality 152 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: which is sort of a hump to me looking back, 153 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: sort of an oxymoron. It's almost like a self help 154 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: book about spirituality. Was nothing I really wanted to do. 155 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: In the end, that. 156 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 2: Also started to feel just stupid to me, just literally stupid. 157 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: And then I sent as the book was about to 158 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: go out to different publishers, I sent another piece, another 159 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: little short essay. It was about a twelve hundred word piece. 160 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: The title of the piece was suspended by no string. 161 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: And I wrote to Barber and I said, you know, 162 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 2: we're getting to the end of this process. What would 163 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: you think about maybe shoehorning this one thing into this 164 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: prescriptive nonfiction book about spirituality. Well, she took an inordinately 165 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: long time to get back to me, and she wrote, 166 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: this may sound very troubling to you, but I'm afraid 167 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: you're paying me to give you my best advice. If 168 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: you have more like what I just read, which I 169 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: think is one of the most beautiful pieces I've read 170 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: in decades, I think you should basically drop the entire 171 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: book you've been working on and start again. 172 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: Now. 173 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: That was doubly liberating for me, one because I didn't 174 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: really think that what I had done was good enough 175 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: to put out there. And also these pieces that are 176 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: now included in the book, some of which I had 177 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 2: been writing since two thousand and eight in various forums 178 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: or thinking about. They were so easy for me to 179 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: write because they were almost like the way that I 180 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: write songs. I wasn't trying to teach anyone anything. It 181 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: wasn't a you know, pedantic kind of scholarly work on 182 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: something or trying to sell something somebody. It wasn't to 183 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: get more work in my corporate business. It was just 184 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: reflections for myself that would almost serve as a legacy 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: piece for my children that even they pretty much know 186 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: where I stand on everything, so I don't even know 187 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: if they'll read it, but it just felt like this 188 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: is something that I can get behind, and I started 189 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: to really enjoy that process and it went on for 190 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: another couple of years, and that's kind of how I 191 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: arrived at it, and it's you know, I hope I 192 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: continue loving it as much as I have and not 193 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: looking back and saying well I could change this, and 194 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: that I just it is. It's finished, you know, and 195 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: I'm proud of it in a way that I haven't 196 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: been this proud of anything that I've done in a 197 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: long time. 198 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: It's wonderful, it really is. You know, you talk of situations. 199 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: There's one in particular with a friend where he needed 200 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: to get through this tough time in his marriage, this 201 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: patch that was going on, and you talk about empathy 202 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and how you found empathy to help him with his challenges. 203 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: Can you talk about how one should dig deep into 204 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: their soul to help others as you did to your friend. 205 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think of empathy as a it's akin to 206 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: a musical not a talent, but a predisposition to take 207 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 2: sound waves and turn them into something. It's an innate quality. 208 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: Maybe it's genetic, maybe it's experiential. What is it that 209 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: makes one musician very I hate you, or we're talented? 210 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. I approve of that word very much. 211 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: Somebody that has a native gift for music, people that 212 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: are empathetic, that essentially have the ability to feel the 213 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: feelings of others. It's also a sort of a dangerous 214 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: thing because sometimes you can be overwhelmed by you're taking 215 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: on the issues of other people. I do think that 216 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: as a songwriter, it's a requisite quality to have this 217 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: idea that you feel something deeply about someone. It doesn't 218 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: mean that you love them necessarily or agree with them, 219 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: but you're able to kind of put yourself in their shoes. 220 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: And in the case of this person, it's a short 221 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 2: little piece that I've written, it was sort of like, 222 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: let me find some aspect of what he's going through 223 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: in my cell, because we've all gone through rough patches 224 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: in our relationships and so on. And only when I 225 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: found a deep place within myself that seemed to echo 226 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: with this person, this really great friend of mine who 227 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: happens to be a fantastic musician, was I able to 228 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: sort of help him. And I think, just to expand 229 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: on this, the greatest help we can give is much 230 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 2: different than simple advice. The best help that we can 231 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: offer is to show a person that we're there for 232 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: them and that we support them, and that we trust them, 233 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: and we trust their abilities, their intellect, their emotional maturity 234 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,119 Speaker 2: to get through whatever it is they're getting through. Reflect 235 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: back to them their strengths. 236 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, you are such a word smith and you 237 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: understand the power of words, and words and descriptions come 238 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: out so greatly in the book. What would your job 239 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: description be if you were to lay it out there 240 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: on the line. 241 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, look only because I've thought about this a lot, 242 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: and it's a question that I asked, you know, different leaders, 243 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: whether it's from the military or different corporate leaders. I 244 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: do think people, you know, not that they're I think 245 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: of people beyond their job titles. So I can put 246 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: an actuary in the sort of the same camp as 247 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: an upright bass player. I'm looking at their humanity and 248 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: I've asked them, how would you sum up through your 249 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: life experiences. Let's say, take three of the most profound 250 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: life experiences that you can think of, or very profound ones. 251 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: For me, it's becoming a musician. You know, at age eleven, 252 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: it was the death of my father, and it was 253 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: getting married and raising children and now grandchildren. And then 254 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: the question would be posed to me, so what kind 255 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: of person did that make you? I request to people 256 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: that are interested in going with this absurd idea, create 257 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: a short, succinct sentence that starts with I am, I 258 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: am and such a person. So it's not equivocating, it's 259 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: not well, you know, sometimes it's like, I am this 260 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: stand behind exactly what you think your purpose is. My 261 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: purpose is to bring joy and hope to people. Now, 262 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: do I fall short of that? Of course I do. 263 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: I always do. To some people think, well, she's basically 264 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: some kind of asshole. What is he thinking of joy 265 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: and hope? I mean, but as a north star more 266 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: times than not, that has guided me to that principle, 267 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: And because I've publicly stated it, like on this show, 268 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: and it's somewhat triauily, I get it and embarrassing to 269 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: say that I am this person, but it's also revelatory 270 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: and strengthening at the same time. 271 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: You know, you talk how the best songs are part engineering, 272 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: part benediction. What did you serve up on your amazing 273 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: playlist today that fits this description? 274 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: Let's see what I have served up thus far, a 275 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: variety of wayne shorter compositions. I don't play jazz. I 276 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: can sort of barely scratch the surface of being able 277 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: to place something like that. But it's so above me 278 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: and beyond me that I enjoy being objective about listening 279 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: to music. If I'm listening to people that do a 280 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: similar thing than I do, I'm very subjective and I'm 281 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: kind of like, well, I see, oh, I see what 282 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: they did in the bridge there. That's it creates oftentimes 283 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: a less enjoyable listening experience where I'm sort of analyzing 284 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: as opposed to listening. However, there are occasionally songs that 285 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: come around that are so stirring to me that I 286 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: become objective again. There's some artists that I really love 287 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: that are just like, wow, this is beautiful. One of 288 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: them is this guy named Christian Lee Hudson, and you 289 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: should probably talk to him. He's this young guy. He's 290 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 2: just a phenomenal writer and person and he's on Anti 291 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 2: Records and I saw, you know, he used to send 292 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: me his demo tapes over the phone. He was just 293 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 2: like a prodigious, you know, deliberate songwriter who was just 294 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: going to do it. And he's also a very funny 295 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: and humble person. Yeah, so, Wayne Shorter, I love it. 296 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: I feel like elevated when I hear it. 297 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: Oh, no doubt. You know, we were talking about faith, 298 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: and faith is a critical theme here and in the 299 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: book talk about how faith can be this driving force 300 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: behind artistic and creative breakthroughs, whether it be a creator 301 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: like yourself or someone who's creating in another setting, like 302 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: a business setting. 303 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, every human being is a creative type. 304 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: Everybody is creating converse sations. People are creating chaos and noise. 305 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: People are creating love and joy. They're creating business strategies, 306 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: as you said, they're creating relationships. So creating isn't you know, 307 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: the province of people with a goatee and a guitar 308 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: or something, you know, or a paintbrush in their hand. 309 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 2: It's as native to humanity is breathing. We just, you know, 310 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: sort of, we have a prejudice to say that the 311 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: person with you know, the hit song must be the 312 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 2: creative type. Well maybe he or she was in a 313 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 2: creative zone when they were writing that particular song, but 314 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: when they're making eggs in the morning, maybe they're not 315 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: as creative. And the male carrier, who doesn't seem to 316 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: be an artist, perhaps the way that he relates to 317 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: his children is extremely creative. So I just lost the 318 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 2: whole train of thought. What was the damn question? I'm 319 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: just going off the rails how faith helps succeed. I'm 320 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: glad you just threw me right back to it, buzz 321 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: because you know, like I'm buzzing off like a bee. 322 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 2: I mean, look, faith is a huge word, and it's 323 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: so broad. There's faith in one's own ability. There's faith 324 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: in one's government, there's faith in one's you know, spouse 325 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 2: and friends. In some way in the book, I'm speaking 326 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 2: about that, and I'm also speaking about faith in and 327 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: even in the book I have a caveat at the beginning, like, 328 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: perhaps you think I don't know exactly what I said. 329 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: It's unusual to learn that I have deliberated in a 330 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: book about faith to use the word God. And the 331 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: reason is is because it's such a loaded term and 332 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: people have I was going to say, people have misconceptions 333 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: about God. I would say this, If anyone has a 334 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: conception of God anthropomorphic or otherwise, they should know that 335 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: it's all there's no way to conceptualize God. It's beyond 336 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 2: beyond any conception. But faith in the idea that there 337 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: is order in the world is maybe what I'm talking about, 338 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: that there is a creative force, you might say with 339 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: a capital F. When I was a kid, and I 340 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: think it's almost natural for children to understand that the 341 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 2: world is a magical place, let's say, and that it's 342 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 2: full of wonder. And then I guess as we become educated, 343 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: we learn things. We learn that water is well, what's 344 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: water what is water? Buzz, how would you use define water? 345 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: The essence of everything? 346 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's a closer answer. Some people will say, look, 347 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: it's h two zero and so you're talking about two 348 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: parts hydrogen, and you know, they give you a name 349 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: for it, but it doesn't really explain anything. And if 350 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 2: you say the essence of everything, it can ask you 351 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 2: as well, what is essence? What does that mean? The fundamentals, 352 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 2: the core, but the core of what? In other words, 353 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: if you delve more deeply into anything, you come to 354 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: a very what I think is a lovely and humbling 355 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: place that you don't really know much at all. It 356 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you're not a scholar, or you're very 357 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: skilled in a certain area or in many areas. It 358 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 2: means that at the root of it all, you don't 359 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: really understand anything. And it's it's a beautiful feeling that 360 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: there's something beyond the kin of human intellect. It's not 361 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: only at least for me, it's not only humbling. It's 362 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 2: reassuring that there is order. I grew up in a 363 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 2: milliu that you know, I grew up Jewish and we 364 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: were very Jewishly identified. But if I would have discussed 365 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: let's say God in a serious way in my home, 366 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: or in my community at large, or with my friends. 367 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 2: They would have thought that I was perhaps in need 368 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 2: of psychiatric care. I grew up in a world of rationalists, 369 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: and at the heart of it, I don't believe any 370 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: human being is a rationalist. When God forbid, somebody dies 371 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: or a child is born, all that rationality goes right 372 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: out the window, because then they are face to face 373 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: with this ineffable sense of wonder and mystery. I always 374 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,239 Speaker 2: had these thoughts as a kid, and I didn't have 375 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 2: language to articulate it. I didn't have a community that, 376 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: at least I didn't think that would listen to what 377 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 2: I had to say about this stuff. It was very 378 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 2: sort of closeted. My thinking always was how could the 379 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: world be have come about through random forces? And I allow, 380 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: because I get a lot of pushback from people. I 381 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: have these discussions, which I enjoy. They said, well, the 382 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: Big Bang, and you're not taking an account billions or 383 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 2: perhaps trillions of years where all these different things can occur. 384 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 2: And I'm saying, yeah, I'm going to grant you that, 385 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: but I want you to grant me this. In turn. 386 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: Let's just say that my belief in God and then 387 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: in God constantly creating the world. Let's say that it's 388 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: completely absurd to you, and I get that. 389 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. 390 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 2: There's no empirical proof of this. It's just the preponderance 391 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: of my experience as a sixty four year old person 392 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: has led me to that. It's only a belief or 393 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: an understanding. It's not provable. But I want you to 394 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 2: admit that it's on the other side, this idea of 395 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: randomness and just sort of disorder creation that happened to 396 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,479 Speaker 2: fall into order is equally as absurd. And then we 397 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: can continue the discussion. And it's a wonderful discussion to have. 398 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: I can go hours. It is the kind of thing 399 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 2: I would talk about when as a kid, when I'd 400 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: like get stoned or something. It was just, you know, 401 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: but I took it and ran with it. 402 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with the Taken a Walk Podcast. 403 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. You know 404 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: you say in the book what compels me today and 405 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: urge to slow things down, to cherish and to utilize 406 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: every moment to its fullest. How can your book, suspended 407 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: by no string help others so importantly to slow down. Well. 408 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: I mean that's both a sort of an esoteric question 409 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 2: and a practical one. I mean, the real practical one. 410 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: The answer is very obvious, and it's something that's not 411 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: only obvious, it's really really difficult, if not impossible, to do. 412 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 2: If you're asking the practical advice, I would say, on 413 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 2: the iPhone, there is an off button, and most people 414 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 2: don't ever use it. They you know, sort of put 415 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: it on silent or something. But to turn the phone 416 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: off is not only a tangible step, but it's also 417 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: a kind of a symbolic step. I am disassociating myself 418 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: from this device which is constantly coined for my attention, 419 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: and I'm going to use it as a tool rather 420 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: than it using me as a tool to gain you know, 421 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 2: some algorithmic whatever it is that they buy you know 422 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: that they trace you and track you. You become its tool 423 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: making people money, you know, collecting data from you. That's 424 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 2: a huge practical thing. I mean, I keep the Jewish 425 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 2: Sabbath called Shabis or Shabbat, so for thirty seven years, 426 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 2: fifty two weeks a year, fifty two times a year, 427 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: on every Friday night to Saturday night, and also including holidays, 428 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 2: is probably about seventy days out of the year, which 429 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: maybe seems not a lot. I always shut the phone 430 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: off for twenty five hours. I'm not saying it made 431 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 2: me happier or a better person or anything like that, 432 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: but it in some way it must differentiate me from 433 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 2: people that never shut it off. And when I do 434 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 2: shut off the phone, I do it. I'm very cognizant 435 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 2: of what it is that I'm turning off this thing 436 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 2: that I'm on all the time the rest of the week, 437 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: six days a week, I use it all the time. 438 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: I'm like, I love technology, I love AI, but I'm 439 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: shutting it off and I can somewhat it's almost palpable 440 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: that I'm feeling myself both a little frightened that I'm 441 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: disconnecting from the world and the news and everything, and 442 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: in equal parts are even a greater part that I'm 443 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: liberating myself from that, from this tether. So that's a 444 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: practical thing. Anyone that wants to slow things down, shut 445 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 2: off your phone, don't bring it with you on your walk. 446 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: It's really difficult to do. The only reason that I 447 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 2: do it is because I see it as an imperative 448 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 2: from God. It sounds like funny, you know, I have 449 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: come to an understanding, as a complicated route to that understanding, 450 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: where God not an anthropomorphic guy in a cloud with 451 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: a lightning bolt. It's not how I conceive of it. 452 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: I conceive of it in a way I said it's inconceivable, 453 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: which is no conception at all. The creator of the 454 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 2: universe as a will, I've understood it not to use 455 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: electronics as dictated in the Torah, which is thirty three 456 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 2: hundred years old. My people have been doing this for 457 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: three millennium. I liked the idea of being attached to 458 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: something with that kind of continuity, and that gives me 459 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: the impetus to shut off the phone. Otherwise I never would. 460 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: If it was just a way to self help, I 461 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: would never do it. 462 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: You discuss the importance of change in the book. You 463 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: say change is the perfect window cleaner. It scours the 464 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: filth from your perceptions of the world. I absolutely love that. 465 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: Who are artists or musicians that inspired you to change 466 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 1: at any point in your life? 467 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: Well, I mean very recently, because of a new record 468 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,479 Speaker 2: coming out, which we'll have to do another talking podcast about, 469 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: I was all set to go into the studio and 470 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: record a certain number of songs. This is now back 471 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 2: like four years it would before COVID. And then I 472 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: watched Chasing Train, which I advise everybody to watch John Coltrane, 473 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: whether you like jazz or not, anyone that wants to 474 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 2: be inspired by a person who's constantly testing himself and 475 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: reaching higher and higher, at least in terms of his creativity. 476 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: I think he was doing the same thing in his 477 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: spiritual outlook as well. After seeing that film, I decided 478 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: that the songs that I was about to record, and 479 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: I had a bunch of musicians already ready, and it 480 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: was a couple months in advance, so I wasn't like 481 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 2: cannon on them the night before, but I did cancel 482 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: the whole recording session and I wrote new songs. I 483 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 2: dug deeper. I changed the way that I was writing. 484 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: I changed some of the subject matter. I never go 485 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: into a song either way thinking I'm gonna write about 486 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: this or that. I just start writing and whatever comes comes. 487 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 2: But that one short documentary was it was a significant 488 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: change from a strange place of just watching a film 489 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 2: about John Coltrane. And there are many more profound changes 490 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: that I would think of when I you referred me 491 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: back to that piece the glass cleaner. Some of the 492 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: changes are extremely painful when somebody says, well, you know, 493 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: I really went through this change, and you know I 494 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: came up with the side this new thing. Or they 495 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 2: went through a significant change and then they popped up 496 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: in another place, their business change or something. What you 497 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 2: don't know about the change, which most people don't talk about, 498 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: is when they were crying in the shower that something 499 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 2: was so moving to them that they literally had a 500 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: life changing moment and not just a change of album, 501 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: but a significant change in their life and their outlook. 502 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 2: They were in a fetal ball, crying to themselves. Else 503 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: everybody does it at some point, nobody wants to talk 504 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: about it, that there was something so substantial going on 505 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: that it rested them from where they were and took 506 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: them to another place. And sometimes, you know, we pray 507 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: that the changes will be the birth of a baby 508 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: or a grandchild, or a marriage or something beautiful that'll 509 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: do the same thing for you. 510 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: You know, Gratitude is the centerpiece of the book Your Life. 511 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: Talk to those listening who might be you know, in 512 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: some aspect of a business world on how leading with 513 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: gratitude can benefit them. 514 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 2: Well, I always like to like, I don't know, this 515 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: is just my nature to like subvert everything I'm hearing 516 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: and the question. But I do have the rub against 517 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: this a little bit. That's okay, okay, So if one 518 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: is searching for gratitude and this is just this is 519 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 2: the first time I've ever said this, so I haven't 520 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: tested it. By the way, nothing I say is like 521 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 2: data driven, nothing is factual. It's just my thoughts, my thought. 522 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 2: My answer to your question is if you're looking to 523 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 2: get more gratitude into your life to help you in 524 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 2: some way, you're not going to find gratitude. It's almost 525 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 2: the antithesis of gratitude. Helping one's self is self involved 526 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: by nature, by design, Gratitude is being grateful to something 527 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: or someone else. It's outwardly directed, and it necessitates not 528 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: just a new habit, but an entire change of outlook, 529 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 2: which one who is serious about it will be working on, 530 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 2: mostly failing on, all their life. The nature of a 531 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: human being, as temporal beings, is to serve oneself. That's 532 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: how we're wired. This is the animal part of us. 533 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with it, but to sort of have 534 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 2: that piece of us sussumed within a higher part of us. 535 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: It takes a lifetime of the most rigorous intellectual action. 536 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: I have not succeeded on that level at all. I'm 537 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: not like an expert, and especially the book is not 538 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 2: talking about my expertise in any of this. It's talking 539 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 2: about my sloppy wrestling with these ideas, and at least 540 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 2: the transparency of the difficulties that I've had maintaining a 541 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 2: sense of faith or gratitude. Not that I disparage those 542 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 2: things are really important, but they're not achievable by brain 543 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: hacks or something, or putting it on your calendar, setting 544 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: aside ten minutes for gratitude, no offense. If that's what 545 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 2: you do, and maybe it works, it doesn't seem right 546 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 2: to me. True gratitude means that you gain a new awareness, 547 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 2: and then you can be grateful for everything. That I 548 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: can speak to you right now, and that you and 549 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: I Buzz have forged a friendship and a trust for 550 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: one another with only meeting a few times. That's a beautiful, 551 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: wondrous thing, and I'm grateful to you. I'm grateful to 552 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 2: the human mind which created these technologies. I'm grateful to 553 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: God that created the space that we exist in and 554 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: human minds and continues to create. It becomes another window 555 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 2: through which you see the world. It's not transitory beautiful. 556 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: You take us into the intricacies of songwriting right at 557 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: the outset of the shadows section, and you say, when 558 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: you're writing a song, don't worry about knowing exactly what 559 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: it is. You're saying, can you collaborate on the mystery 560 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: of songwriting and what folks and other creative ventures can 561 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: learn from it? Yeah? 562 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I was speaking to a really great songwriter 563 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: yesterday who seems to be stuck in a rout a 564 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: bit in terms of output and so on. He's very 565 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 2: desirous of writing more. He's a very, very talented, gifted person. 566 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 2: What's difficult, and it could be cultural, is that in 567 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: order to write songs and in order to conceive of 568 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 2: new things, the intellectual and analytical mind isn't as helpful 569 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: as you think it will be. The analytical, technical, rational 570 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 2: mind comes into edit and to correct sort of your 571 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 2: initial inspiration. There's a Jewish mystical idea I think that 572 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 2: talks about this a lot. There's three facts. It's ohma, 573 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 2: it means it denotes this initial flash of an idea, 574 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 2: and we've all had those. Just this flash, it doesn't 575 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 2: really have any components to it yet, but it somehow 576 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 2: contains something of a whole. It's like it's this idea, 577 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 2: I haven't thought it through. The next piece is bena, 578 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 2: where you start to then use your intellect to construct something. 579 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 2: And I'll relate this in a minute to like songwriting. 580 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 2: You can use that as an example. And the final 581 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 2: one is dot, which means knowledge that you've completed this 582 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 2: thing and you understand it in a way that it 583 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 2: changes you fundamentally. That's how you know that you know somebody. 584 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 2: In Biblical language, it was like you know Adam nu eve. 585 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: They use that expression to have this intimacy that something 586 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 2: fundamental is going to grow from this. It's the deepest 587 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: kind of awareness that we can have to really know something. 588 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 2: And back to where we said, what do we really know? Well, 589 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 2: then you know that you don't know. It's another kind 590 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: of knowledge. But in talking to this songwriter, I said, 591 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 2: you have only one thing that you need to do, 592 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 2: and it's so easy, and yet it's so difficult because 593 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 2: it's so fraught with fear. And what is the fear 594 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: if I write something and it's no good. On some level, 595 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 2: you're afraid that someone won't love you. It goes deep 596 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 2: like that. And the thing that I think is the 597 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 2: most important, let's say for a songwriter. And you can 598 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 2: universalize this any way you want, just like your podcast, 599 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: it was a flash of an idea. The first thing 600 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 2: that you need to do is sit down and start writing. Playing, 601 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 2: start start. You don't need an idea. Your ideas, the 602 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 2: ones that aren't you in your conscious mind are not 603 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 2: necessarily better than the ones that you sit down and 604 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 2: just sort of cull from a dream sort of place. 605 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: You sit down and you write. At least I do this. 606 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 2: I have no idea what I'm going to write about. 607 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 2: In the first few sentences. I just write and I 608 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: look at them and I say, wow, where do those 609 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: sentences go? Where do they lead? And then, in some sense, 610 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 2: if I've sort of pushed away this constant nagging threat 611 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 2: of Peter, who do you think you are? You're like 612 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 2: not a rock star, you never achieved what you thought 613 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 2: you would, You're not Springsteen. So who are you to write? 614 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 2: Who are you to do anything? And I've said to 615 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 2: this little voice in my head, you know, consciously or subconsciously. Yes, yes, 616 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 2: I am not Bruce Springsteen, but I'm Peter Himmelman, and 617 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 2: I only have what I have, and I'm going to 618 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 2: make the best of what I am and I'm going 619 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 2: to write something, and I'm going to finish it. And 620 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 2: if it's no good, I can throw it away. And 621 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: if it needs to be changed and fixed, I'll change 622 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 2: and fix it. But I will sit and I will 623 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 2: write something no matter what. 624 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: Peter, in closing, can you gush about some of the 625 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: people that, during the process of writing Suspended by No String, 626 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: really gave you that push at various moments to help 627 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: you cross the finish line. 628 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I would say that much of the 629 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 2: inspiration goes to this my friend now, Barbara Clark, this editor. 630 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 2: And well, let me say one quick thing. It's very 631 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 2: difficult to write in a vacuum, in a sort of 632 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 2: an emotional vacuum. If you don't have anyone to listen 633 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 2: to your song, a friend, of spouse, a child, the 634 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 2: song will have very little chance of being written. If 635 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 2: you don't have somebody that's going to read what you write, 636 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 2: there's no one to connect with. It's very difficult to 637 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 2: finish anything. So just knowing that Barbara was going to 638 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 2: read my stuff, and you know, I paid her. It 639 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 2: was a professional relationship, which made it even better. She's 640 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 2: on the hook for reading it. I know she's going 641 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 2: to give me her honest feedback. But there were people 642 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 2: along the line along the way. You mentioned Larry Klein 643 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 2: and you know, the great bass player and multi Grammy 644 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 2: winning producer, and we became friendly years ago, and I 645 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 2: would sort of talk over some of these ideas. There's 646 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 2: a keyboard player named Jeff Babco. I don't know if 647 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 2: you know who. He is, just an amazing keyboard player. 648 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 2: You should get him on your show too, and maybe 649 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: Larry as well. That I would just run these ideas across. 650 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 2: I think the most significant contributor to the book had 651 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 2: been my cousin Jeff Victor, who was, you know, among 652 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 2: my very best friends, a literal genius musician. And during 653 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 2: parts of when I was writing the book, Jeff had 654 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 2: had this very serious injury that like his leg was 655 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 2: like had multiple surgeries on and he was in the 656 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 2: most grievous pain. And in the mornings I would write 657 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: things to send him just for him, and I would 658 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,879 Speaker 2: send them to him and to cheer him up, or 659 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 2: to empathize with him, or to begin a conversation, And 660 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 2: a lot of those pieces were up in the book. 661 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 2: So I mean, you don't need a lot of people, 662 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 2: You just need one or two, you know, to kind 663 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 2: of be there with you. For example, who did you 664 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 2: talk to about this podcast? Who gave you the impetus? 665 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to say a couple of people. At 666 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: the outset. There was a man by the name of 667 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: Rashad Tobakawala who I sort of call him a business buddha, 668 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: and he lives in the Chicago area. Came out of 669 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: the marketing CMO world, and I remember being in Chicago 670 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: and running the idea by him and sort of getting 671 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: his take on it, because that's where I came up 672 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: with it on that particular trip. But I really want 673 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,240 Speaker 1: to thank you as well from the bottom of my heart, 674 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: because you were the first musician that I had on it. 675 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: And it was shaped at the beginning to be a 676 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: very broader based podcast. I eventually centered it more around 677 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,399 Speaker 1: more around music and the power of music, and as 678 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: somebody who reads you from your sub stack and follows 679 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: what you're up to and watches and admires and marvels 680 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: at your invention and your reinvention and your ability to 681 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: push through the resistance creatively. That's very inspiring and has 682 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: been and continues to be very inspiring for me. So 683 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: I don't go through many days without marketing back and 684 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: thinking about your piece of this. That's why I was 685 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: so excited to sync back up with you, because you 686 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: continue to have an important piece of this for what 687 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: I'm doing and continuing to do for the Taking a 688 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,720 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. So I'm very grateful. 689 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 2: I'm honored to be a little tiny piece of it. 690 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: You know. 691 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 2: The point I guess is nobody ever does anything by themselves. 692 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 2: A solo album is never a solo album. You have 693 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 2: your name on it, but so many other people. I 694 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 2: do want to put a shout out to Gretchen Young, 695 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,319 Speaker 2: who is the publisher of the book, and I sent 696 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 2: her an early draft and she liked it. She said, 697 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 2: this is is beautiful and it really gave me so 698 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 2: much confidence, and she's so smart. We met in New 699 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 2: York was so cold. We met outside, it was like 700 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 2: COVID time, and we met in winter coats and just 701 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 2: like had so much commonality, and I felt that she 702 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 2: really understood what I was trying to do, and I'm like, 703 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 2: let's do it. Let's just go, not going to shop 704 00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 2: this around. I like where you come. 705 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: I mean from the book's great, suspended by no string. 706 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: It's calming, it's something that alerts your senses as well, 707 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: and it's beautifully done. And I'm grateful for your work 708 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: and certainly our friendship, Peter, and I really appreciate you 709 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: being on Taking a Walk. Buzz. 710 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 2: I'll see you soon in the flesh. We get to 711 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 2: the donkeys soon enough. Amen, all right, take care man, 712 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon. Bye bye, Thanks Peter, bye bye. 713 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Taking 714 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: a Walk with Peter him ohman. He is fantastic. Great 715 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: to catch up with him again, and thanks for supporting 716 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, 717 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.