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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name is Drew Seibert. On February thirteenth, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and six, my life changed forever. You go through many

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Speaker 2: different feelings when this happens. It's very devastating, it's very overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: You can decide to give up, and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of people that give up. But I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: everything I can to not let that happen.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener and discretion. As advised. I was hiking

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Speaker 1: in the Grand Canyon and I almost died. It was

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Speaker 1: a one hundred and ten degree day, I was in

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Speaker 1: the direct sun. We had to hike in conditions that

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Speaker 1: were much more severe than what we had prepared for

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Speaker 1: because there was a wildfire in the Grand Canyon that year,

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Speaker 1: and they moved our hike to June or July, and

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Speaker 1: we were hiking in one hundred and ten degree temperature.

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Speaker 1: I had been in that environment for several days, gradually

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Speaker 1: getting more and more dehydrated. So when your body starts

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Speaker 1: to feel the effects of the heat, the first thing

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Speaker 1: you notice is fatigue, and it's insidious. It starts off

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Speaker 1: really slowly, and then you realize that, well, I'm hiking

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Speaker 1: slower than I normally do, or I'm I'm just I

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Speaker 1: don't feel as strong as I normally do, And that's

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Speaker 1: the very first thing you notice.

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Speaker 2: And by the time you get to the point where

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Speaker 2: you're dizzy or you're hallucinating, you're way far gone. It

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Speaker 2: gradually comes on you and you don't realize it immediately.

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Speaker 2: Forty pound pack on my back, so my center of

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Speaker 2: gravity was more to the rear. If I had stood

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Speaker 2: up straight and then passed out at that point, I

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Speaker 2: might have fallen over backwards and ended up falling down,

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Speaker 2: you know, a hundred foot cliff. I leaned into the

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Speaker 2: hill so I wouldn't fall over backwards down a big cliff,

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Speaker 2: and then I passed out forward and hit my forehead

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Speaker 2: on the ground, and I woke up right away. But

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Speaker 2: I realized that I was in a lot of trouble

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Speaker 2: because I was by myself and it was there was

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Speaker 2: no help immediately apparent a friend of mine Tim, He

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Speaker 2: was forty yards off of the trail off to the left, saying, Hey,

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Speaker 2: come on over here, there's a cave. It's nice and

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Speaker 2: cool in there, you can cool down. So I scrambled

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Speaker 2: across the loose rock bucks got to the cave that

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Speaker 2: was there, and found out that Tim wasn't there. I

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Speaker 2: had hallucinated him. Fortunately I didn't hallucinate the cave. The

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Speaker 2: cave was actually there, and I did sit in the

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Speaker 2: relative cool for a little while, and I also thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: what a beautiful place this would be to die, Because

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Speaker 2: I really thought that it might happen. There wasn't any

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Speaker 2: panic involved. I was like accepting that if it happens, okay,

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Speaker 2: but I'm going to do everything I can to battle

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Speaker 2: that and not let that happen. And finally I got

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Speaker 2: back out of the cave when looking for my friends.

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Speaker 2: When I found them, I basically collapsed on the ground

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Speaker 2: in front of them, and one of them said later

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Speaker 2: that they had never seen anybody that looked so close

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Speaker 2: to death in their entire lives. We hiked to the

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Speaker 2: campsite for the night. I continued to have little, vivid hallucinations.

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Speaker 2: I woke up in the middle of the night and

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Speaker 2: I was seeing lights that would flash off and on,

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Speaker 2: just random lights. And the next day we sat down

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Speaker 2: and had a conversation with all the ten of us,

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Speaker 2: but realized that there was no way on Earth I

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Speaker 2: was going to be able to hike out a mile

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Speaker 2: up on my own power to get out of the

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Speaker 2: Grand Canyon alone. So we sent the two best hikers

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Speaker 2: that we had down to the river. They found a

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Speaker 2: river raft guide who had a satellite phone. Because cell

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Speaker 2: phones didn't even exist then, especially not in the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 2: They called for a helicopter, and within several hours I

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Speaker 2: was at the top of the Grand Canyon being treated

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Speaker 2: at the clinic there for severe hypo nature, which is

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Speaker 2: low sodium in the blood. I was sweating and not

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Speaker 2: replacing electrolytes adequately enough, even though I had been trying to.

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Speaker 2: Somebody had died earlier that week of the same thing,

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Speaker 2: and so I sat in the emergency room in Las

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Speaker 2: Vegas for fourteen hours getting ivy fluids, and the doctor

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Speaker 2: finally said, your sodium is now normal. If you go

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Speaker 2: down to that Denny's down the street and buy a

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Speaker 2: Grand Slam breakfast, pour a bunch of salt on it,

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Speaker 2: and eat the whole thing, I'll let you go. And

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Speaker 2: so I did, and then I flew home. Home at

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Speaker 2: that time was Atlanta, where I was a gastronurologist with

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Speaker 2: a practice in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Gastronurologists is a doctor who

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Speaker 2: treats all the organs in the digestive system, not only

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Speaker 2: the digestive tract aspect of it, but also the procedural

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Speaker 2: aspect of it. It's amazing to be able to remove

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Speaker 2: someone's calling cancer using a scope and tell them after

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Speaker 2: the procedure, well, I found that you have cancer, but

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Speaker 2: you're cured. I grew up in northern Kentucky, which is

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Speaker 2: just across the Ohio River from Cincinnati. I was inspired

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Speaker 2: to be a doctor by my mother, who was a nurse.

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Speaker 2: Some of my earliest memories were of her getting dressed

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Speaker 2: so that she could go to the shift at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: I had plans to go to a medical practice in Cincinnati,

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Speaker 2: but I had heard from another GI fellow who had

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Speaker 2: interviewed in Atlanta that there was a really busy practice

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Speaker 2: that needed gastronolich is desperately in the north suburbs of Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: So I had moved to Atlanta from Indianapolis about six

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Speaker 2: years before my Grand Canyon misadventure. I worked hard and

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Speaker 2: I played hard on top of that, and it was

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Speaker 2: a full life. There was a lot to do and

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun people to do it with. Around

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Speaker 2: that time, I also met Mary Helen, who I ended

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Speaker 2: up dating for several years. She was the one that

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Speaker 2: would eventually save my life. One weekend, we went to

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Speaker 2: Alabama to see Mary Helen's niece in a horseback riding event.

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Speaker 2: She ended up doing very well in the horse show,

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Speaker 2: but we stayed later that we were wanting to and

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Speaker 2: we're sort of slow coming back. We stopped and got

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Speaker 2: some artistical cheese and we did some sight seeing along

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Speaker 2: the way. By the time we got home, it was

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Speaker 2: rather late and Mary Ellen didn't want to drive more

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Speaker 2: to get to her house, so she spent the night.

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Speaker 2: At some point in the middle of the night, I

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Speaker 2: got up to use the restroom and I tripped over

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Speaker 2: something and I fell forward, hit my forehead on the

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Speaker 2: edge of the marble shower and threw my head back

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Speaker 2: and broke my neck. I must have hit loudly because

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Speaker 2: it woke her up in the next room, and she

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Speaker 2: walks in the room and asks, are you okay? And

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Speaker 2: I'm like no, I said, I can't breathe. She goes,

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Speaker 2: do you need an inhaler? And I know, well, do

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Speaker 2: you need an ambulance?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And then I guess I stopped breathing, and Mary Helen

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Speaker 2: was left with somebody not breathing on the floor and

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Speaker 2: didn't know exactly what to do, but she did everything

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Speaker 2: so well. She called nine one one. They asked if

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Speaker 2: I was breathing, She said no. They basically explained to

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Speaker 2: her how to do mouth to mouth. She started doing

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Speaker 2: mouth to mouth, but then they said, well, the ambulance

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Speaker 2: is on the way. She had to run downstairs and

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Speaker 2: open up the front doors and come back up and

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Speaker 2: resume breathing for me. And even though she's not really

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Speaker 2: trained in that, she managed to keep me alive for

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Speaker 2: the eight to ten minutes that it took for the

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Speaker 2: ambulance to get to my house. Glad I don't live

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Speaker 2: forty five minutes away from the hospital, because it probably

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Speaker 2: would have been a different outcome. And the next thing

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm waking up three days later on a

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Speaker 2: ventilator at the hospital with a tube in my mouth,

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Speaker 2: breathing for me and mouth words what happened around the

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Speaker 2: two tube? And she goes, you broke your neck and

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Speaker 2: I responded, oh wow, around the tube silently, and then

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Speaker 2: I passed back out and didn't wake up again for hours.

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Speaker 2: And this happened evidently repeatedly for a few days. Mary

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Speaker 2: Helen went with the ambulance to the hospital. They diagnosed

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly that I had broken my neck, and they

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Speaker 2: actually told Mary Helen that night that I wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to make it through the night and to get hold

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Speaker 2: of my family and let them know. And then I

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Speaker 2: made it through the night. And then while he's not

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Speaker 2: going to wake up, and I woke up and well,

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Speaker 2: he's paralyzed. He's going to be paralyzed for good. This

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Speaker 2: all happened on February thirteenth of two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: It was the day before Valentine's Day. I had gotten

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Speaker 2: Mary Helen a Valentine's Day gift, some skincare products that

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Speaker 2: I knew she liked, but I had to order them

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Speaker 2: from a friend of ours who sold them, and they

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Speaker 2: were on back order, so they were not going to

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Speaker 2: arrive by Valentine's Day. I planned to tell Mary Helen

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Speaker 2: that her gift was coming, but I never got a

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Speaker 2: chance to ever tell her that. So I'm at the

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Speaker 2: hospital in the midst of a three day coma and

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Speaker 2: gift basket arrives at the hospital and Mary Helen thinks

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Speaker 2: it's from the big group of friends that are there,

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Speaker 2: and then she looks at the card and reads the

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Speaker 2: card and realizes that the card is from me. And

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Speaker 2: I'm lying there in a coma, and it's probably the

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Speaker 2: first moment that it really hit her hard that she

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Speaker 2: was grieving mode.

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Speaker 1: It took me.

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Speaker 2: Weeks to realize that I was in a really severe situation.

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Speaker 2: I went through what I sort of called my brain fog.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't feel my body on my nippoline, and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't move any of my body except for my shoulders

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Speaker 2: and my head, and my head was in a neck brace,

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Speaker 2: so I couldn't even move that much. I wasn't comprehending

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Speaker 2: the enormity of the changes in my life. At one point,

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Speaker 2: I remember telling my partners, well, I'll get over this

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Speaker 2: and I'll be back to work at some point, and

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Speaker 2: they were like dumbfounded that I would even think that

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Speaker 2: it's possible. My life changed at that moment for being

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Speaker 2: a doctor in charge of the care of patients to

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Speaker 2: being a patient. It's really difficult to realize that you

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Speaker 2: have needs that you can't provide yourself, and that you

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Speaker 2: have to rely on other people. If you need to

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Speaker 2: be turned in bed, or you know, you need some

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Speaker 2: water and you can't get that yourself, then you need

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Speaker 2: to be able to get the attention of someone, and

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Speaker 2: you have trouble even just doing that. You don't realize

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Speaker 2: just the number of things that you have to come

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Speaker 2: to groups with caregiving, and where you're going to live,

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Speaker 2: and how are you going to pay for things, and

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Speaker 2: what medicines do you need and what kind of exercise

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Speaker 2: program do you need. It's a big change in your life,

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Speaker 2: and you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

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Speaker 2: You've got to deal with it. The doctor's basically told

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Speaker 2: me that it would be unlikely that I'd ever be

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Speaker 2: able to walk again. But the underlying reality is is

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Speaker 2: that an injury to the spinal cord and a lot

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Speaker 2: of injuries. You do get recovery and there is regrowth

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Speaker 2: of nerves, which when I was in medical school we

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Speaker 2: thought nerves never grow back. Again. They do, but they're

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Speaker 2: very slow. They call it neuroplasticity, regrowth of the central

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Speaker 2: nervous system. In order to use that, you have to

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Speaker 2: actually use it. In order to use it, you have

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Speaker 2: to go through the motions, So you have to learn

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Speaker 2: how to walk, You have to learn how to move

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Speaker 2: your arms, you have to learn how to brush your teeth.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't do these things, you'll never

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Speaker 2: train your nerves to allow you to do that again.

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Speaker 2: I may have had a paralyzed body, but I kept

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Speaker 2: wanting to do things that would make me better. That

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that every single day I wanted to wake

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Speaker 2: up and go spend three hours exercising. But I managed

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Speaker 2: to drag myself out and do it pretty much every

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Speaker 2: single day. Mary Helen, when I hadn't, moved into my

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Speaker 2: house while I was not there, and that was the plan,

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Speaker 2: and she went ahead and did it. That first year

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Speaker 2: of being paralyzed as a quadriplegic is pure hell. If

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Speaker 2: I can say that word. It's a really devastating thing

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Speaker 2: to go through. It's very hard emotionally and physically obviously,

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Speaker 2: and after a year we realized that we, for everyone's sake,

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Speaker 2: needed to break up, and she moved out at that point.

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Speaker 2: But she she was my savior that year. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if I did not have her there to help me

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Speaker 2: get through this mentally and physically, I'm not sure how

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Speaker 2: I would have made it. When I bought my house,

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that it was within one mile of

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Speaker 2: Shepherd's Spinal Center, which is one of the top spinal

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Speaker 2: cord injury rehab the hospitals in the nation, probably one

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Speaker 2: of the top ten, or maybe one of the top

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Speaker 2: three or four. And Shepherd is literally within a wheelchair

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Speaker 2: ride of my house. So it was so close, and

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Speaker 2: it was just very fortuitous that I happened to buy

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Speaker 2: a house that close to it without even realizing what

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Speaker 2: it was at the time. Shepherd Center got started because

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Speaker 2: as a man named James Shepherd was diving in the

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Speaker 2: surf in Brazil in the early nineteen seventies and a

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Speaker 2: wave caught him and knocked his head against the bottom

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Speaker 2: and he got paralyzed with a spinal cord injury very

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Speaker 2: similar to mine. Actually, he was stabilized in Brazil, but

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Speaker 2: there was nowhere in the southeast United States that he

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Speaker 2: could transfer to. The closest was Craig Hospital in Denver,

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Speaker 2: and his family realized that the best bet that he

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Speaker 2: would have to get back to Atlanta would be to

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Speaker 2: start their own hospital. They actually started it in the

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Speaker 2: basement of a church with six beds, and those six

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Speaker 2: beds filled up really quickly, and it's been gradually growing

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Speaker 2: ever since the early nineteen seventies. So when you're paralyzed,

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Speaker 2: you actually have to make goals in your improvement, and

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Speaker 2: the first goals are basically just to start movement again

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Speaker 2: of any sort. When I first started getting a little

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Speaker 2: bit of risk in my right side and a little

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Speaker 2: bit of ankle in my right ankle, then they immediately

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Speaker 2: started pretty intense physical therapy in order to increase those gains.

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Speaker 2: Then you start making goals. You're brushing your teeth, feeding yourself,

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Speaker 2: really basic things that you know you don't think when

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Speaker 2: you're paralyzed that you'll ever do again. But with each

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Speaker 2: goal that you achieve, then there's new goals that you

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Speaker 2: need to add to your list. Each of those goals

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Speaker 2: takes a lot of effort and a lot of expertise

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Speaker 2: that Shepherd Center was able to provide to help me

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Speaker 2: achieve those goals. I'll tell you the very first time

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Speaker 2: that I looked down and I realized that it was

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Speaker 2: me moving my wrist to not the physical therapist moving

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Speaker 2: my wrist, that was a pretty profound moment. I got

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Speaker 2: the right wrist and the right ankle back within days

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Speaker 2: of each other, and that was really a pivotal moment

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Speaker 2: standing up, it was a significant achievement. The first time

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Speaker 2: I fed myself was a significant achievement. First time that

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Speaker 2: I was told that while you're moving your arms enough

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Speaker 2: that you might be able to drive a car, and

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Speaker 2: it sounded scary at the moment, but that was a

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Speaker 2: huge moment. And when I finally did get to drive

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Speaker 2: a car on my own and took a bunch of

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Speaker 2: friends with me to a Braves game for my first

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Speaker 2: trip in my new car, it was pretty pretty amazing.

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Speaker 2: You got to realize that it's a long haul your recovery.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's been eighteen years now and I'm still

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Speaker 2: getting improvement, but it's been eighteen years of telling yourself

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Speaker 2: every day that you're just going to do the best

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Speaker 2: you can to try to improve. It involves exercise and sacrifice,

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Speaker 2: but in the long run, I'm in a lot better

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Speaker 2: place now than I was a year ago, and I'm

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Speaker 2: in a lot better place a year ago than I

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Speaker 2: was three years before that. And as long as you

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Speaker 2: continue to head in the direction that you feel like

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Speaker 2: you need to go, then you're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to tell people exactly what it's like to

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Speaker 2: be in a wheelchair. When people see someone in a wheelchair,

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Speaker 2: they always want to help, and sometimes the best way

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Speaker 2: to help is to let the person in the wheelchair

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Speaker 2: decide if they need your help at that moment or not.

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Speaker 2: I think that a good approach to that is let

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Speaker 2: the person that's in the chair tell you what they need.

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Speaker 2: You know, if I am trying to do something, it's

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Speaker 2: okay if I struggle to do it. If I can't

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Speaker 2: do it, I'll be happy to ask. One of the

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Speaker 2: things I'm most proud of is that I've been able

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Speaker 2: to make a new life out of the circumstances that

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Speaker 2: I've been dealt. My medical training helped, but I realized

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Speaker 2: I wasn't being fulfilled by what I was doing, and

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Speaker 2: shortly before COVID started, I decided that I was going

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Speaker 2: to give an attempt to go to law school and

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Speaker 2: use my medical background as a lawyer instead of as

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Speaker 2: a doctor. So I ended up going to law school

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Speaker 2: passing the bar. At this point, I am helping veterans

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Speaker 2: do appeals of their compensation for disabilities that they've suffered

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Speaker 2: in the military. I think, sometimes rightly or wrongly, the

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Speaker 2: government is looked upon as not taking care of veterans

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Speaker 2: as best as they should, and I think sometimes we

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Speaker 2: get it right and sometimes we don't. You can make

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Speaker 2: that sacrifice that they made a little bit easier to

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Speaker 2: take if they get what it is that they need

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Speaker 2: from us. I was able to feed myself again, and

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Speaker 2: walk again, and drive a car again, a lot of

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Speaker 2: it out of just sheer determination and hard work. But

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Speaker 2: I also had the financial means to get the healthcare

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Speaker 2: and the physical therapy that I needed. When I first

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Speaker 2: got into my medical practice its first time in my life,

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Speaker 2: I made a significant amount of income. I was told

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Speaker 2: by a very savvy insurance agent who could have easily

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Speaker 2: sold me some life insurance, that I didn't need life

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Speaker 2: insurance because I didn't have significant others at that time.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't married, I didn't have kids. But what I

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Speaker 2: needed was disability insurance. And that was very pivotal moment

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Speaker 2: in my life. When he convinced me that I needed

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Speaker 2: to buy enough disability insurance to support myself in the

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Speaker 2: case that I wasn't able to work again. That was

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Speaker 2: the best advice I've ever gotten in conversation. It basically

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Speaker 2: saved my life because it allowed me the financial means

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Speaker 2: to pay for a lot of the medical problems that

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Speaker 2: I have, and to pay for caregivers, and to help

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Speaker 2: pay for the massive expenses that come with an injury

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Speaker 2: like this. I mean, you're essentially not really working and

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Speaker 2: you don't have income, but you have massive expenses and

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Speaker 2: a lot of this is just not affordable. I'm very

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Speaker 2: fortunate that I had that disability insurance to allow me

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Speaker 2: to handle this in a little bit better way. It's

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Speaker 2: really a fault of our entire medical system that people

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Speaker 2: can suffer injuries and not be able to get the

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Speaker 2: medical care that we need. I talked to a friend

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Speaker 2: in Germany about the physical therapy that I needed, and

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Speaker 2: he was appalled that that's not taken care of you know,

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Speaker 2: and that now part of our medical system that we

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Speaker 2: are able to get physical therapy, and if we can't

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Speaker 2: pay for it, we can't get it. You know, in Germany,

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Speaker 2: it would just be covered. When I was lying paralyzed

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Speaker 2: in bed at Shepherd Center and had a lot of

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Speaker 2: time to think, I got to thinking, you know, I

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Speaker 2: am so fortunate that I've got to hike to the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the Grand Canyon several times, and hiked to

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Speaker 2: see Machu Picchu, and hike in the Alps for ten days,

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Speaker 2: and hike in Alaska. Those are all things that you know,

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Speaker 2: I could have put off. I could have delayed them,

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Speaker 2: and I'm so happy that I grasped those possibilities when

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Speaker 2: they occurred, did them, and I have this memories. I

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Speaker 2: probably will never be at the bottom of the Grand

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Speaker 2: Canyon ever again, because physically to get there would be

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Speaker 2: almost impossible, but I have those memories and I'll remember

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Speaker 2: it distinctly as if it were yesterday. I was working

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Speaker 2: fifty hours a week or more if you got the

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Speaker 2: time that I was on call, and I was working hard,

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Speaker 2: I was starting to get high blood pressure. I was

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Speaker 2: probably working more than I needed to, and maybe I

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Speaker 2: was on my way to a heart attack or a stroke.

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Speaker 2: My father died at sixty two of a stroke, and

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Speaker 2: maybe I was heading down that same road. Perhaps the

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Speaker 2: spinal cord injury stopped me in my tracks and showed

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Speaker 2: me a different life path that I ended up being

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Speaker 2: required to follow because there was no other choice. But

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Speaker 2: maybe its saved my life. The Grand Canyon is an

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Speaker 2: amazing place. If you've never been there, it's hard to

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Speaker 2: even picture it unless you're standing on the edge of it,

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Speaker 2: going wow, this is amazing. It's a very majestic place,

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Speaker 2: and it's a very spiritual place. It's a place I

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Speaker 2: hope to get back to again someday.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: This is a Live Again joining me for a conversation

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Speaker 1: about today's story or my other Alive against story. Producers

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Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent Die and I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Dan Bush. So, Brent, how long have you known Drew?

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Speaker 4: I know Drew from Ultimate Frisbee and he actually is

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Speaker 4: tied into the story we did about Eileen Murray. She

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Speaker 4: talks about going to a doctor who told her you

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Speaker 4: may have cancer, and that doctor was Drew.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 4: So I've known Drew since the late nineties, and he's always,

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Speaker 4: even before the accident, just been one of the most welcoming,

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Speaker 4: inspiring people you could meet. We had a friend who

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Speaker 4: is also anultimate frisbee player that got struck by lightning.

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Speaker 4: She survived but was suffered severe brain damage. And when

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Speaker 4: this happened to Drew, when this happened to Carmen, kind

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Speaker 4: of the conversation in the community is why do these

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Speaker 4: things happen to the best people?

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Speaker 1: But why do they happen ultimate frisbee players?

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Speaker 4: Why do these things happen about frisbee players?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think this happens to bad people too.

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Speaker 5: We just don't give a shit. That was just like,

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Speaker 5: oh good, why do things happen to good people?

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Speaker 1: And it's, well, they just happened.

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Speaker 5: It sucks when they happen to good people. It's really

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Speaker 5: it's not it doesn't really affect me when they happen

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Speaker 5: to bad people, like, oh well, okay, shame.

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Speaker 2: Gods.

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Speaker 1: That is a great perspective. There were three things that

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Speaker 1: really stood out to me. The first thing, if we want

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Speaker 1: to just kick off a conversation about this is he

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Speaker 1: talks about making gains every day and how he had

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Speaker 1: to work every day and you know, not missing any days.

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Speaker 1: And it just occurred to me, like, if I apply

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Speaker 1: the same level of commitment and consistency to the things

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Speaker 1: that I'm trying to accomplish in my life that you know,

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Speaker 1: a disabled person has to. Like I keep bringing up

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Speaker 1: Eric Clarson and he's because his history is so profound

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Speaker 1: to me. But he said, you know, for some people

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Speaker 1: in this world, just making breakfast is like climbing Mount

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Speaker 1: Everest every day. So does it take that kind of

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Speaker 1: cataclysmic event for me to realize what I do have

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Speaker 1: and what is worth fighting for and just spend you know,

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Speaker 1: consistency and commitment and energy every day to to make

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Speaker 1: those gains, whether it be just to eat breakfast or

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Speaker 1: whether it be to you know, any other goal that

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Speaker 1: I have set for myself.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think knowing Drew from before the accident,

435
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 4: that that's just his persona. You know, like he's he

436
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: talks about, you know, being in the Grand Canyon and

437
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: I'm not going to let this kill me. I'm not

438
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 4: going to let it. He says he found that little

439
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: place that cave to go sit in. It was nice

440
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: and cool. He's like, this would be a great place

441
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 4: to die. But I'm not going to let that happen.

442
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: And he's not like a hardcore aggressive guy who's, you know,

443
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 4: always going to run into the end zone and win

444
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 4: the game for the ultimate team. I mean, he's he's

445
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 4: a very thoughtful, compassionate, funny, welcoming guy. But you know,

446
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: it's probably the same mindset that took him through medical school,

447
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 4: you know, that got him to set up his practice

448
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 4: with you know, It's it's that kind of that got

449
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: him to take advantage of life and go do things

450
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: like hike in the Grand Canyon to seize the moment

451
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: that's in front of you.

452
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: You know.

453
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 4: So I think maybe that disposition has carried him through

454
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: possibly or maybe you get hit with a challenge like

455
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 4: this and you rise to the occasion. But I think

456
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 4: Drew showed the signs of that even before. I remember,

457
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: you know, when we would get beers all the time,

458
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: and I remember one time just saying, Drew, you know,

459
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: because I would see him, I'd go to physical therapy

460
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 4: and document his physical therapy, and I was like, you know, Drew,

461
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: I was at the gym and I was just so tired.

462
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: I didn't want to do any more. Working out and

463
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 4: I thought of you, and I just it gave me

464
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: some energy, and he said, gee, it's great to know

465
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: it could be an inspiration for you. So he's always

466
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 4: had this disarming sense of humor that's made him a

467
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 4: delight to be with.

468
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, does it take adversity to make us wake

469
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: up or get in the fight to live our best

470
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: lives or you know.

471
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 6: It can be the kick in the butt that you need.

472
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 5: I think that I think that that is a path

473
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: toward I guess, enlightenment, but I also think, you know,

474
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 5: just listening like we're doing here, listening to other people's stories,

475
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 5: especially people who may not be like you but have

476
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 5: a human experience, I think that's a kind of a

477
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 5: way forward. I mean, I think we're seeing a lot

478
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 5: of that in the world right now. A lot of

479
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 5: people who aren't being directly affected by big, bad things

480
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 5: that are happening are nonetheless like seeing these things and

481
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 5: going like we have to change on a societal level.

482
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 5: And I think that that also, you know, that also

483
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 5: happens on a personal level when you see those things.

484
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 5: But I do think I mean, if you're comfortable with

485
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 5: the way things are going, or like it's the only

486
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 5: way you've ever known for things to go, Then why

487
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 5: would you change anything?

488
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: You know. That's what I was thinking, is like, if

489
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: I play the same amount of discipline he has to

490
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: apply to every step of his life. If I play

491
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: the same amount of discipline just learning how to make

492
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: better pancakes, and I would be the best pancake maker

493
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: in the use universe. Right, Yeah, but you know.

494
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: But it's like he said, he hasn't a choice in

495
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 4: the matter, right, he said, I and I think by

496
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 4: making But he did say he could have given up.

497
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: That was his choice.

498
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: And you know, and I think when he talks about

499
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: making the decision to do the recovery, and he didn't

500
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 4: know when he's in medical school about neuroplasticity that your

501
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 4: nerves can rebuild these connections. They told him. He they

502
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 4: told him the night that he fell. They told his girlfriend,

503
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 4: he's probably going to die tonight, so call your family.

504
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: Then when he made it through the night, they said

505
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 4: he's not going to wake up. Then he woke up.

506
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 4: Then they said he's never going to walk again. And

507
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 4: now he's driving a car. So you know, some of

508
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 4: that's happening almost at a cellular level. When he's out,

509
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: you know, when he's unconscious and his body's fighting it,

510
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 4: you know.

511
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: But that's what again, Eric Larsen, I love my polar Explorer,

512
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: but he said the best predictor of success or of

513
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: survival is not having a choice. Yeah, And so sometime

514
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: and like, that's a guy who would put himself into

515
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: situations where he didn't have a lifeline and he would

516
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: go out on these expeditions where there would be no

517
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: rescue possible for about thirty days during his expedition. So

518
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: whatever happened come across a polar bear, like there's nobody

519
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: coming for you, and you're out in no man's land.

520
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: And he just often said that not having a choice

521
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: is the best is the is the best predictor of survival.

522
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 5: I also think the best predictor of survival is to

523
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 5: stay away from polar bears. My choice. I do have

524
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 5: a choice, and I choose to stay home and watch sufferings.

525
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: But he did say that every day he.

526
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 6: Had to not polar bears.

527
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, every day he had to pull himself out of

528
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 4: bed and go to his physical therapy. And I watched

529
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: him do his physical therapy and it was hard, you know,

530
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: And he's also dealing with things that you don't think about.

531
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: He can't feel his feet, so he has to look

532
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 4: where he's walking. I mean, there's all sorts of different

533
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 4: challenges that are embedded in that. But another thing that

534
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 4: he will readily say is he was a doctor who

535
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: had a significant savings and he had that excellent advice

536
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 4: from his insurance agent, which was to buy disability insurance.

537
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: And he lived six minutes away from Shepherd's Spinal Center,

538
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: so he had a lot of things working in his favor.

539
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 4: And you know, I kind of asked him about that,

540
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 4: and he's such an advocate even before the accident, was

541
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 4: always an advocate for a more just fair health care system,

542
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 4: you know. And he's like his friends in Germany, marvel,

543
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: They're like, why wouldn't you just be taken care of?

544
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 4: Is in the richest nation in the world. Why would

545
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 4: you have your life destroyed potentially by this? As he

546
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 4: has shown in his own experience, he has still has

547
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 4: so much offer on his own accord, He went and

548
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 4: got a law degree, took his personal experience and is

549
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 4: helping veterans get their benefits. The mood, you know, so

550
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: when we cut these people out of our society just

551
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: because they don't have the nest egg or the health

552
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: insurance or the disability Turrance plan. We're losing a lot,

553
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 4: you know, of course.

554
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, every human life is worth it.

555
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he talks about the failure like somebody else

556
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: who's like, oh, physical therapy isn't included. Yeah, no, that's

557
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: a special insurance. Like that's another Again, these stories just

558
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: constantly pointed the systemic failings of our system.

559
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 4: Well, on the cost of it, it's one hundred dollars

560
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 4: an hour. He also has to and he has to

561
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 4: do like nine hours of it a week, and then

562
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 4: he has to have somebody stay at his house because

563
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 4: he needs something happens to him. You know, it's it's expensive.

564
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are people? What are people who don't have

565
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: die but type of insurance die?

566
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 5: The answer is die.

567
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

568
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 4: I mean it was really like I wanted to leave

569
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 4: this in a really positive place and he's very encouraged.

570
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 4: He shows that if you put your mind to it,

571
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 4: you can do it. And I would hate for somebody

572
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 4: to hear this who's going through because I should have

573
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 4: the stats on hand. The number of spinal cord injuries

574
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 4: is pretty astounding in the United States, and nobody has

575
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: disability insurance if you don't have disability insurance. But don't

576
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 4: give up. I mean, he's proof that you can make it.

577
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 4: But it is a long slog, you know.

578
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 6: You know, it's one of the things that I took

579
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 6: away from his story is how resourceful he is. And

580
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 6: that's going back to a lot of what you were

581
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 6: saying about a he had the resources kind of already

582
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 6: set up for him, which is amazing and lucky, but

583
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 6: be just as a human person, he seems really focused

584
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 6: on looking at what he's got to work with and

585
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 6: making it work. And that was something that right just

586
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 6: just really struck me because I'm looking at that going like,

587
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 6: I'm having a much easier time of things, and the

588
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 6: idea of going back to school and learning a new

589
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 6: career exhausts me beyond concept.

590
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 4: You know.

591
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 6: I'm kind of in a stage of life where I'm like,

592
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 6: did I feed my cat? Okay? Cool like that, but

593
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 6: but yeah, and I guess another thing that I that

594
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 6: I want to highlight to sort of change the subject.

595
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 6: If anyone wants to bounce off of that great great swiveling,

596
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 6: it goes back to resourcefulness. But I want to emphasize

597
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 6: a point that he made because a dear friend of

598
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 6: mine had a spinal cord injury in high school and

599
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 6: lost the use of her legs and has been in

600
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 6: a wheelchair ever since, and you know, has two amazing

601
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 6: twin kids and is a vibrant human person like anybody else.

602
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 6: And you know, like whenever a person is using any

603
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 6: kind of assistive device, that device is essentially a part

604
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 6: of their body, So don't touch it without their express permission,

605
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 6: the way that you wouldn't touch anyone body without express permission.

606
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 6: And if they're trying to do something, you know you

607
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 6: can ask if they would like help, but you know,

608
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 6: the way that you would ask any human person capable

609
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 6: of speech, Like over the age, you might do something

610
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 6: for a baby without asking express permission because the baby

611
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 6: probably isn't going to give you a good answer. But

612
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 6: you would ask a toddler if they want help getting

613
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 6: that water off of the table. Don't just do it

614
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 6: for a person because they're using an assistive device.

615
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, yeah, nobody likes to be told what

616
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 4: to do, and nobody likes to be patronized. And I

617
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: think it's you think you're helping, but you know he was.

618
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 4: He was very adamant about that, like that he had.

619
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 4: I said, what is one thing you'd want people to

620
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: know what it's like to be in a wheel chairing?

621
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 4: He's like, I would just like them to know that.

622
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 4: Give me my autonomy. Let me make my decision of

623
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 4: when I need something.

624
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 6: I can tell you as a small bodied human like

625
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 6: I'm five to two, if someone picked me up to

626
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 6: help me reach the water on the table, I would

627
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 6: marterer them with my eyes. I would they would be

628
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 6: dead because my brain waves would kill them.

629
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I met Drew when we went to Grocery on Home.

630
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: Grocery on Home as a you know, a cool venue

631
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: in Atlanta where you can see interesting bands that show up,

632
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: acoustic sets and stuff. But you invited me to come along,

633
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: Brent to the Grocery on Home show Withdrew, And I

634
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: was so boldest to make a joke when we were coming.

635
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: We were approaching the door and that was about to

636
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: open the door, and I said, and ritrue, And I said,

637
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: can you give that for me?

638
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 4: But the guy it makes you feel comfortable enough. But

639
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 4: I remember walking out of the hospital that first night,

640
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: you know, like, uh, I'm claustrophobic, and if I had,

641
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 4: you know, if I could not move and they shut

642
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 4: the light out and I couldn't, I would just be terrified.

643
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 4: I just remember walking back to my car, just looking

644
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 4: at my legs and just the mobility and just what

645
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 4: a miracle, you know, that we can walk, that we

646
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 4: can see, that we can hear, And how much of

647
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 4: that we take for granted. I mean, what do you

648
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 4: say when we have a healthcare system that leaves people.

649
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 5: You're not alone. There are so many people suffering in

650
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 5: the exact same ways because of what because of the

651
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 5: way the system is built. There there are so many

652
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 5: people who are going through the exact same thing as

653
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 5: you are. The terrifying thing really is is that we

654
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 5: sort of tend to tuck those people away. We don't

655
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 5: like to think about injury or illness. We don't like

656
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: to think about what could happen to us. But like

657
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 5: the truth of the matter is, right now, it's like

658
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 5: this is happening to a lot of people, and you're

659
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 5: not alone. I mean, I think, you know, try to

660
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 5: find other people that this has happened, to try to

661
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 5: talk to them. I mean, like there are advocacy groups

662
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 5: for this kind of thing, and it you know, it's

663
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 5: not over yet for anybody, you know. And the system

664
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 5: is not built for people who are hurt. The system

665
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 5: is not built for people who are weak. The system

666
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 5: is not built for people who are poor. The system

667
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 5: is not built for people who don't who don't aren't

668
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 5: already rich. Cis white men, you know. But there's a

669
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 5: whole lot of people going through what.

670
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 3: You are going through.

671
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 4: Well, not only are there a whole lot of people

672
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: who get injured every year with a spinal cord injury

673
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 4: or other maladies that can take them out of the economy.

674
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: If that's the most important thing in our country, is

675
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 4: how they participate in the economy. What Drew is experiencing

676
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 4: could happen to any one of us, So every one

677
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 4: of us should be an advocate for a better healthcare system.

678
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, well said.

679
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 5: Period die that dot.

680
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 4: I just don't know how to put a spin because

681
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 4: I mean I remember going to see him and just

682
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 4: people who gunshot wounds or falls off a ladder, and

683
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 4: you're just like.

684
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: That, you don't have the resources heat. I just we're

685
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: so fragile and we don't think about it. But anytime

686
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: you sprain a leg or you know, anything small. What

687
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: happens and you're and you're out of you can't use

688
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: that capacity that you had for a month or something,

689
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, I had no idea.

690
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: That's the only time you identify with that level of

691
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: you know, disability. But God forbid, I guess we all

692
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: got to go get some disabilities.

693
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: It's vulnerable.

694
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 5: I love that they're like the current through line in

695
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,479
Speaker 5: today's conversations are like.

696
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: It, well, I mean, you're going to get God.

697
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 7: You're gonna get God, so you might as well appreciate

698
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 7: what you got's now because one day they're gonna fuck you.

699
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 7: What you got to now, what you got right now,

700
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 7: what you can, what you got, love theeople around you,

701
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 7: because what we've learned is maybe nothing.

702
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: He soundly the preacher from Grapes of Ras.

703
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 4: Found out to get himself some disability in charge, just

704
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 4: in case it gets cut out. I would just say

705
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 4: Drew is an example of somebody doing that. He took

706
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 4: his medical expertise and his life experience and is now

707
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 4: using that. He went and got a law degree and

708
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 4: is now using that to advocate for veterans who have

709
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 4: given for this country. People like Nick who he did

710
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 4: a story on to make sure that they get what

711
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: we promised them. And I just think that's for real inspiration,

712
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 4: you know, that this system can be changed, you know,

713
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:48,439
Speaker 4: by people who take part.

714
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 5: And I think it's I think it's great that like

715
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 5: he didn't just take this as a personal accomplishment. He

716
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 5: took this and he he accomplished something, and then he

717
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 5: looked around and said, how can I help now? And

718
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 5: we need a million of those people like staff.

719
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 6: But there are there are so many advocacy groups and

720
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 6: so many mutual aid societies and so much help out there,

721
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 6: and a lot of it, for better or worse, is

722
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 6: word of mouth. And so part of what we all

723
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 6: kind of have to do when things are looking this

724
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 6: grim is get out into our community and meet those people,

725
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 6: talk to them about what is already going on, see

726
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 6: how we can help them, and move from there.

727
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

728
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 4: And I think that anybody who suffers a spinal cord injury,

729
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 4: if they could get into the Shepherd's Spinal Center, it's

730
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 4: incredible what they do. And I do think that they

731
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 4: have ways to get people in there if they don't

732
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,479
Speaker 4: have insurance, you know, so.

733
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: We'll put some helpful resources and links. In the show

734
00:46:46,160 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: notes to next time in a Life Again, we meet

735
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: Charlie Collins, legally blind since childhood, searching for belonging, and

736
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: one night after a concert in New York, climbing on

737
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: top of a trained car to prove his self worth.

738
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: I grabbed the electricity going into the train system and

739
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: shorted out the entire train system, and all of the

740
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: electricity went through me. What followed wasn't just a survival,

741
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: it was surrender, transformation and a calling to help others.

742
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 5: I mean, it blows my mind that.

743
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: I didn't die.

744
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 5: Now I can't help others so much better.

745
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die

746
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional

747
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

748
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

749
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K Ali

750
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson,

751
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host,

752
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: Dan Bush Alive Again is a production of I R

753
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative near

754
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story.

755
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com.

756
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: That's a l i v e A g A I

757
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: N P R O j.

758
00:48:32,800 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: E c T at gmail dot com.

759
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 6: Two