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Speaker 1: Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have

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Speaker 1: exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an

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Speaker 1: as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head

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Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed, I'm familiar, I'm ashamed. I know what I did.

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Speaker 3: I's wrong.

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Speaker 2: I'm very sorry for it.

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Speaker 4: Again, I take Floy's possibility from all my actions and

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Speaker 4: oh yes for mercy.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, Episode two,

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Speaker 1: Cat and Mouse. In the last episode, we met Caroline

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Speaker 1: Brega and learned about her husband, former Colorado Springs Police

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Joel Kern. On the outside, they were the perfect

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Speaker 1: American family. Then, on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, Joel

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Speaker 1: detonated a bomb on his life, a bomb that would

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Speaker 1: destroy his family. It started with the text he sent

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Speaker 1: to his wife that read.

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Speaker 5: I was caught receiving oral sex from two women in

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Speaker 5: my cop car I lied about it during an internal

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Speaker 5: affairs investigation. I am now penning termination.

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Speaker 1: April eleventh is now called D Day by Caroline and

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Speaker 1: her kids. Here's Caroline and Joel's daughter Nicole.

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Speaker 6: That evening, I had a lacrosse game, and so I

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Speaker 6: started kind of getting ready for my lacrosse game.

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Speaker 1: It started as a normal day, but it soon would

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Speaker 1: become an inflection point.

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Speaker 6: My mom called me to follow her into the bathroom,

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Speaker 6: and I don't even remember what she was doing, maybe

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Speaker 6: taking down her hair from her updeal. She just was

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Speaker 6: acting off, and so I said what's wrong? And she

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Speaker 6: didn't respond.

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Speaker 1: She was scared something was wrong. Did something happen?

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Speaker 6: And then I said, is daddy okay?

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Speaker 1: Caroline was at a loss for words. They all lived

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Speaker 1: with the fear that one day Joel wouldn't come home

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Speaker 1: from work. But Joel wasn't injured or killed in the

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Speaker 1: line of duty. Still nothing was okay. Caroline and Joel's

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Speaker 1: son was a freshman in college far from home.

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Speaker 7: I get a call from my sister and so I

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Speaker 7: send it to voicemail. I get another call, and then

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Speaker 7: I had the text to reply, and I say, I'm

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Speaker 7: about to walk into a chemistry medterm. Can I call

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Speaker 7: you after? And she texted back no, it's an emergency.

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Speaker 7: So I pick up the phone and I call her,

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Speaker 7: and I remember my mom and my sister shaken up

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Speaker 7: in tears.

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Speaker 1: The family met in the living room. Nicole and Caroline

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Speaker 1: sat on the couch. Caroline and Joel's son was on

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Speaker 1: speaker phone, and Joel stood in front of the fireplace.

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Speaker 1: It was the most bizarre family meeting you could imagine.

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Speaker 1: It felt like someone else's life, but no, it was

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Speaker 1: happening in their home.

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Speaker 5: Our daughter's sitting right next to me, our son's on

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Speaker 5: the phone, and the three of us are just in hysterics.

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Speaker 5: You can hear our son hysterically crying, our daughter's hysterically crying.

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Speaker 5: And I said, you need to tell the kids what's

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Speaker 5: going on.

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Speaker 1: What was going on? Well, to understand the events of

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Speaker 1: April eleven, twenty twenty two, we need to go back

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Speaker 1: a few months prior to February fifth. That day, a

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Speaker 1: stranger showed up on Caroline and Joel's doorstep. Joel was

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Speaker 1: home and answered the door. The whole interaction happened to

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Speaker 1: be recorded. The sound isn't great, but you'll get the

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Speaker 1: gist of it. And we've distorted the stranger's voice to

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Speaker 1: protect his privacy.

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Speaker 8: A nine dogs man, Oh chance?

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Speaker 9: Was it here?

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Speaker 10: Who I am?

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Speaker 9: Here's my wife out here? The one that you're talking

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Speaker 9: your priiser? What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: I'm not here to arrest, but I'm saying, Joel, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, my wife. Okay, my wife is there, Dave. I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't want to know if you know her. I have

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Speaker 3: no idea you're talking about.

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Speaker 9: And if that's the case, then I owe you an apology.

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Speaker 3: I'm not, like I said, I'm.

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Speaker 11: Not here if I was wrong to leave, why are

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Speaker 11: you here?

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Speaker 9: So if you don't know my property, my property.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I'm not hearing her, ask you, I will.

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Speaker 9: That's not what I'm trying to do.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to know you know my wife.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I know you're a pop and all that stuff.

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Speaker 5: Man, I know that, but that's not cool.

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Speaker 3: That that's not cool.

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Speaker 12: I just want you to stay away from my wife.

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Speaker 4: You can't even look me in the face and tell

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Speaker 4: me you made a mistake.

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Speaker 12: I know, I don't even know who she is, so leave.

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Speaker 13: I thought you didn't be able to look at me,

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Speaker 13: man de mand.

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Speaker 3: And say, yeah, I did fuck your wife. I'm sorry for.

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Speaker 2: Ruining your marriage.

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Speaker 8: No, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: You need to check your wife out because I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing anything.

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Speaker 1: And with that, the couple took off and Joel was

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Speaker 1: left alone to contemplate what just happened. This man managed

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Speaker 1: to find his house and came right to his front door.

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Speaker 1: Caroline had been out on a run and missed the

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Speaker 1: whole confrontation by minutes, but Joel wasn't home alone. Nicole

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Speaker 1: was in the basement just doing her homework.

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Speaker 6: Usually I would have went up and just saw who

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Speaker 6: was at the door with him, but for whatever reason,

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Speaker 6: I just continued to do my homework, and so later

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Speaker 6: on I asked him, you know who was at the door,

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Speaker 6: and then he just said like some solicitor.

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Speaker 1: Joel carried on as if nothing happened. In fact, later

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Speaker 1: that night, Joel and Caroline went to a party. He

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Speaker 1: also never mentioned the confrontation to his family.

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Speaker 14: It was a.

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Speaker 5: Yellowstone theme party and I'm throwing on a blond wig

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Speaker 5: pretending to be Beth and got him a beard to

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Speaker 5: be ripped. We left and we were going to a

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Speaker 5: friend's house who we had been to their home hundreds

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Speaker 5: of times. And he pulled up to the wrong house

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Speaker 5: and I said, what are you doing? And so he

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Speaker 5: was like, what do you mean? And I said, you

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Speaker 5: pulled up to the wrong house. He said, oh, I

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Speaker 5: didn't know that, And so, you know, we back out,

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Speaker 5: go to the right house. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Caroline laughed it off in the moment. Looking back now,

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Speaker 1: she sees that Joel's mind was somewhere else that night.

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Speaker 1: But there was bad news for Joel. The stranger who

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Speaker 1: came to his door made another stop that day. After

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Speaker 1: he pulled out of Joel's driveway, he and his wife

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Speaker 1: drove straight to the Colorado Springs Police Department or CSPD,

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Speaker 1: and filed an official complaint against Joel. After all, an

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Speaker 1: officer having sex in his police car while on duty

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Speaker 1: would be a major professional violation. We filed an records

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Speaker 1: request so we could get those investigation records. Over the

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Speaker 1: past year, we received hundreds of pages from CSPD, all

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Speaker 1: relating to Joel Kern. We were also given actual audio

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Speaker 1: recordings from the investigation. What you're about to hear is

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Speaker 1: from one of those recordings. It's Joel's boss, Commander Strassner,

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Speaker 1: being interviewed by Internal Affairs about Joel's alleged misconduct.

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Speaker 9: How did you become aware of this investigation? Can you

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Speaker 9: kind of walk me through?

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Speaker 15: That's about February seventh. I got a call just advising

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Speaker 15: me that there was internal a complete that was filed

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Speaker 15: over the weekend regarding the tenant Kern possibly having sex

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Speaker 15: in the back of his vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Strawsner was one of the first people Joel went to.

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Speaker 1: When you heard about the complaint, He.

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Speaker 15: Adamantly denies anything happened because I don't even know these people.

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Speaker 15: I don't know what they're talking about. I haven't seen

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Speaker 15: him before. There's no way I would do that in

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Speaker 15: a police car. He goes, made the statement of I

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Speaker 15: didn't have sex in the back of my car when

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Speaker 15: I was in high school or college. I'm sure's the

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Speaker 15: heck not going to do that now kind of thing.

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Speaker 15: Very visibly upset, almost in tears, and just really angry

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Speaker 15: about how somebody could file a false complaint and turn

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Speaker 15: his entire world upside down, in his family upside down.

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Speaker 15: So he was really upset and really pissed off.

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Speaker 1: But was his rage really directed at the couple from

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Speaker 1: making the complaint or was it directed at the Internal

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Speaker 1: Affairs department for taking the complaint? Seriously? Joel was an experienced,

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Speaker 1: respected police lieutenant. This investigation threatened to take all that away.

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Speaker 15: He goes, I just don't understand why this couldn't have

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Speaker 15: been a preliminary inquiry.

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Speaker 3: I tell you no, and this thing be closed.

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Speaker 1: A preliminary inquiry is like an initial check to see

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Speaker 1: if there's any valid reason to suspect that the officer

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Speaker 1: has done something wrong. Internal affairs can then decide to

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Speaker 1: move forward with the investigation or close the matter.

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Speaker 15: I said, look, Joel, do you know why it couldn't

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Speaker 15: have been a preliminary inquiry? They got to go through

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Speaker 15: the process.

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Speaker 1: Let's be clear. What the complaint was alleging was no

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Speaker 1: ordinary affair. They were claiming police misconduct, an officer abusing

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Speaker 1: his badge, having sex in a taxpayer funded vehicle on

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Speaker 1: the public's time and in public. Remember, Joel had worked

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Speaker 1: in internal affairs years earlier. He understood how it operated. Ironically,

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Speaker 1: he had worked in the department with Commander Strassner sudden,

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Speaker 1: they have to.

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Speaker 15: Do a thorough job, and he's like, yeah, I get it,

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Speaker 15: but he was very angry.

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Speaker 1: But Strawsner also gave Joel some reassurance.

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Speaker 15: I said, look, I have no reason not to believe

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Speaker 15: anything that you're telling because if you didn't do this,

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Speaker 15: as you're saying, either one or two things, they're completely

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Speaker 15: lining and they need to be charged with false reporting

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Speaker 15: or somebody's impersonating you. We need to get to the

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Speaker 15: end of that. And so we got to do this thoroughly,

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Speaker 15: and I'm going to make sure I stay in contact

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Speaker 15: with internal affairs to make sure it's a complete and

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Speaker 15: thorough investigation.

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Speaker 1: Strassner could tell that Joel was distraught. This was a

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Speaker 1: serious matter. Someone could be filing a false report or

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Speaker 1: impersonating him. Strawsner assured Joel that if someone was victimizing him,

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Speaker 1: they would be held accountable. To complete the investigation, the

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Speaker 1: CSPD took Joel's police vehicle and his department issued phone.

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Speaker 15: If it was me and his shoes and as he's saying,

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Speaker 15: all of it is fabricated, I would be incredibly upset

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Speaker 15: and angry. And to me it seemed very genuine and authentic.

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Speaker 15: I maan, I got no reason to doubt.

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Speaker 3: What he see.

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Speaker 1: This was recorded in February twenty twenty two. The investigation

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Speaker 1: into Joel had been going on for two months, two

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Speaker 1: months where he knew his life was on the brink

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Speaker 1: of collapse. Meanwhile, Caroline was completely in the dark. Joel

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Speaker 1: didn't tell her about the man on their doorstep or

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Speaker 1: the misconduct investigation. It seemed like Joel thought that with

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Speaker 1: his rank in years of service, he would be able

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Speaker 1: to talk his way out of this, but the CESPD

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Speaker 1: was taking it seriously. They went ahead and looked for

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Speaker 1: any evidence that would support the couple's claim, and that

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Speaker 1: included interviewing the man and his wife. Yes, the couple

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Speaker 1: who showed up at Joel's door agreed to cooperate, so

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Speaker 1: Internal Affairs sat with the woman Joel adamantly denied ever

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Speaker 1: seeing before. Here are some of that interview.

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Speaker 16: Okay, this is a center on Field Chance I with

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Speaker 16: the Colorado Springs Police Department Internal Affairs Section Today's February seventeenth,

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Speaker 16: twenty twenty two. Also president is the General Affairs, Sergeant

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Speaker 16: Drew Jealous.

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Chanza asked the woman about how she met Joel.

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Speaker 1: She explained it was on a fetish and king social

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Speaker 1: network called betlife dot com. And as a note, we've

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Speaker 1: altered the voices of all the civilians interviewed by CSPD

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Speaker 1: to protect their privacy.

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Speaker 16: What was it that initially drew your attention to the

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Speaker 16: person we're talking about today?

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Speaker 17: He contacted me, just like Facebook has messenger, that there's

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Speaker 17: a messenger within it.

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Speaker 1: Joel had suggested that they meet at a public park.

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Speaker 3: I drove in my vehicle to go meet him.

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Speaker 17: When I got to the location, which was Memorial Park,

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Speaker 17: he was in what looked like an unmarked police car.

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Speaker 3: I imagine the first question would be, how would I

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Speaker 3: know that. I've got a number.

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Speaker 17: Of officers in my family who I've seen their unmarked vehicles.

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Speaker 3: I do know what they look like. He could see.

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Speaker 3: I was nervous.

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Speaker 17: I was shaken, and at that point it probably should

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Speaker 17: have stopped.

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Speaker 16: Did the two if you have anything in common, any

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Speaker 16: fetishes as you describe them, that that kind of made

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Speaker 16: you kind of continue the conversation.

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Speaker 17: Yes, he was into domination and I was into submission.

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Speaker 17: He told me that he would enjoy spanking me and

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Speaker 17: fisting me and.

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Speaker 3: Choking me and pulling my hair.

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Speaker 9: So what leads you to believe that this person was

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Speaker 9: a police officer?

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Speaker 3: Stated he was?

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Speaker 9: Can you tell us a little more about that.

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Speaker 17: He eventually told me his name, and you know, eventually

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Speaker 17: told me that he was a police officer with Springs

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Speaker 17: Police told me he did traffic investigations.

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Speaker 9: So when he told you his name, what name did

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Speaker 9: he give you?

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Speaker 3: Joel Kerr?

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Speaker 16: Were you physically harmed in any way? I know you

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Speaker 16: said it bruised. Were you harmed in any way during

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Speaker 16: this encounter?

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Speaker 17: I mean I was bruised, and that's about the extent

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Speaker 17: of it.

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Speaker 3: The dammage Jo's suffer is on me.

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Speaker 16: Was there any aspect of this meeting that was non consensual?

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Speaker 17: From your perspective, this isn't about digging into his life

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Speaker 17: and trying to harm him. It is simply about as

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Speaker 17: an officer, he should not be using his vehicle to

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Speaker 17: have what I imagine this probably not the first rendezvous.

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Speaker 9: What makes you say that that that you believe this

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Speaker 9: wasn't his.

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Speaker 17: First because he discussed enjoying having meetups such as this.

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Speaker 1: This woman had come to regret her actions and confessed

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Speaker 1: to her husband. She gave her husband access to her

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Speaker 1: computer and all her passwords. She was remorseful about the

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Speaker 1: encounter and took responsibility for her part in it. The

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Speaker 1: woman fully disclosed her actions to her husband and agreed

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Speaker 1: to accompany him to Joel's house. However, as you heard,

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Speaker 1: things didn't.

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Speaker 5: Go as planned.

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Speaker 1: They of course reported him. The woman's story was credible,

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Speaker 1: and when police searched Joel's phone and computer, they found

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Speaker 1: evidence supporting her story. And then they identified another woman

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Speaker 1: Joel had met up with. He planned this one on

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Speaker 1: his work phone, but it seemed like he forgot to

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Speaker 1: delete a few messages from the exchange. This woman had

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Speaker 1: also met Joel on fet life. Although she was cooperative,

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Speaker 1: she seemed less eager to discuss the encounter. An internal

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Speaker 1: affairs sergeant contacted her by phone.

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Speaker 12: So you started talking, you think online in August twenty

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Speaker 12: twenty one. You spoke on the phone, he would call you,

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Speaker 12: and you spoke through WhatsApp. When's the first time you

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Speaker 12: said you met. When's the first time you actually met

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Speaker 12: in person.

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Speaker 18: I believe that he was a conference in Denver and

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Speaker 18: we just met briefly when he was on his way back,

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Speaker 18: like the last day that he was going back to

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Speaker 18: the Springs.

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Speaker 1: The woman and Joel had talked and texted for several weeks.

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Speaker 1: He had attended a work conference in Denver. After talking

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Speaker 1: online and on the phone, there was an opening to

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Speaker 1: meet up. On the way back from the conference, they

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Speaker 1: met in the parking lot of a sporting goods store.

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Speaker 1: But here was the information Internal affairs was really after

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Speaker 1: had Joel used his police car to have sex with her?

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Speaker 1: And was it while he was on duty?

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Speaker 12: Was there anything in that vehicle that made you think

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Speaker 12: that it was probably not his personal vehicle radio, the.

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Speaker 18: Police radio with Canner or whatever you call him.

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Speaker 12: You got into a silver Esub you don't remember the

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Speaker 12: maker model, but you believe it was a police vehicle

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Speaker 12: because it has a radio in it. Maybe there for

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Speaker 12: twenty to thirty minutes and engaged in vaginal sex in

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Speaker 12: the backseat of that vehicle. Yeah, And other than that,

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Speaker 12: there was no other meetings. You've still talked as friends,

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Speaker 12: but no sex. No, no, And let me ask this.

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Speaker 12: I was reading through some text messages between you and Joel,

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Speaker 12: and one of them says like something about there's been

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Speaker 12: some drama and I've deleted everything not to worry about it.

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Speaker 12: Do you remember that text thread?

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Speaker 18: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: What was that about?

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Speaker 18: I mean, he told me that there was something going on.

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Speaker 18: I didn't really go into detail, but I guess that

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Speaker 18: wasn't surprise when I got your message yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Despite Joel's adamant denials, it appeared he had in fact

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Speaker 1: had sex in his police vehicle during work hours. CSPD

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Speaker 1: conducted a full investigation. Internal affairs even ordered a forensic

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Speaker 1: analysis of the car's interior. They determined that the complaint

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Speaker 1: was true. Joel had been having sex with women in

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Speaker 1: his police car in public on company time. On April eleventh,

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Speaker 1: Joel was summoned to a meeting with his commander, and

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Speaker 1: you'll hear that meeting in a later episode. And it

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Speaker 1: was on that day that he could no longer hide

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Speaker 1: the investigation from Caroline and their kids. In the early

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Speaker 1: evening on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, Joel was home

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Speaker 1: with his family. Caroline and Nicole sat huddled together on

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Speaker 1: the living room sofa. There were tears, accusations, and grief.

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Speaker 1: Their son was on speakerphone from college, alternating between anguish

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Speaker 1: and disgust.

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Speaker 5: As he sat in our home. He swore up and

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Speaker 5: down to the kids. It was only two times. It

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Speaker 5: was only these two people.

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Speaker 6: That's it.

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Speaker 5: It was only these two people.

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Speaker 1: He was only admitting to what the CSPD had already uncovered. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: he told his family a tearful story about what happened.

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Speaker 5: He said, I started going down a rabbit hole online

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Speaker 5: when I worked at night, and I would see these

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Speaker 5: different websites, and out of curiosity, I started corresponding with

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Speaker 5: different people on different websites, and that's how I met

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Speaker 5: these two people. It was only these two times. It

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Speaker 5: was only these two times.

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Speaker 6: I was just astonished that he could do this to

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Speaker 6: our family.

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Speaker 7: Well I could keep saying, was how could you do

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Speaker 7: this to my mom and my sister?

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Speaker 15: How could you do this?

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Speaker 5: You know, it's one thing to try to digest that

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Speaker 5: when you have just been betrayed by your spouse, but

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Speaker 5: see here and watch your kids. It's just a completely

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Speaker 5: different level.

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Speaker 1: Joel insisted that he only had been unfaithful with two people,

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Speaker 1: but Caroline wasn't naive. She knew there had to be more.

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Speaker 14: You know, I had enough sense to say, if I

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Speaker 14: secure a divorce attorney and they were to do an

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Speaker 14: open records Request act, what else would they find in

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Speaker 14: your file and he looked terrified.

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Speaker 1: With Caroline's words still hanging in the air, Joel dropped

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Speaker 1: another bombshell. Back in episode one. We learned he'd been

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Speaker 1: tapped form one of the departments and most sought after roles,

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Speaker 1: the public information officer. He'd be the face of the department,

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Speaker 1: the media liaison, the voice. He'd already done the job temporarily,

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Speaker 1: then out of nowhere, the offer vanished.

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Speaker 5: He said, I had a falling out with the chief.

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Speaker 5: And I said, you had a falling out with the

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Speaker 5: chief of police, and he said, I had a falling

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Speaker 5: out with him, and he's taken away my opportunity to

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Speaker 5: be the public information officer.

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Speaker 1: But that had been a lie. There hadn't been an

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Speaker 1: issue with the chief. The issue had been with Joel.

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Speaker 5: He did not get the public information officer position because

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Speaker 5: of sexual harassment.

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Speaker 1: While Joel served as temporary public Information officer in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: he asked female reporters to use an encrypted app to

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Speaker 1: communicate with him, and what he said there unnerved the reporters.

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Speaker 1: When one reporter heard Joel Kern was going to be

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Speaker 1: appointed the permanent Public Information officer in twenty nineteen, she

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Speaker 1: was alarmed and wrote a letter here's how it began

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Speaker 1: to the Colorado Springs Police Department. I'm writing to voice

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Speaker 1: my concerns about naming Lieutenant Jul Kern the next PIO.

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Speaker 1: To accuse anyone of inappropriate behavior is a risk, But

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Speaker 1: to accuse an officer, especially one that controls which media

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Speaker 1: members get information and how fast, could be career suicide.

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Speaker 1: But that is what most emboldened me to voice my concerns. Now,

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Speaker 1: this letter led to Joel Kern's first internal affairs investigation

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Speaker 1: for sexually harassing female news reporters. The CSPB started by

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Speaker 1: interviewing the reporter that wrote the letter.

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Speaker 11: This is Commander Tishossky with Carrs Friends Police Department Internal

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Speaker 11: Affairs Section. Today's February seventh, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Internal Affairs asked the reporter about the app J'll ask

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Speaker 1: her to download.

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Speaker 8: He encouraged me to get the WhatsApp so that we

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Speaker 8: could communicate in a way that his phone would be

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Speaker 8: more secure from the police department, as in, if he

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Speaker 8: was giving me tips of some sort, so that it

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Speaker 8: would be encrypted and it would be on his personal

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Speaker 8: phone and it could be taken That kind of stuff.

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Speaker 8: He never explicitly said, do you want to do anything

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Speaker 8: with me? Or like he never explicitly asked me out,

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Speaker 8: or you know, things like that. Nature it is all

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Speaker 8: very sneaky, and about interpretation, you mean sneaky sneakyism. He

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00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 8: would use words that would be suggestive or language that

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00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 8: would be suggestive, and it felt to me like a

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Speaker 8: test to see how I took it. He brought up

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Speaker 8: sexual relations with his wife, and again I don't remember

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Speaker 8: exactly what was said, but I remember that he was

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Speaker 8: on vacation or at his son's base, or not baseball,

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Speaker 8: but some kind of sporting event away, and he mentioned

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Speaker 8: like something along the lines of, you know, maybe I'll

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Speaker 8: get lucky, or when you have kids, the only time

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Speaker 8: you have sex is when you're away, or something like that.

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Speaker 8: That obviously was inappropriate and kind of opened the door

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Speaker 8: if I wanted to talk about sexual relations.

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Speaker 11: You had wrote that this became obvious that the friendlier

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Speaker 11: I was.

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Speaker 5: The more beneficial it could be.

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Speaker 3: So tell me about this.

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Speaker 11: What do you mean by friendlier?

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Speaker 8: If I would have accepted his advances or been sexual

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Speaker 8: in return, or you know, when I explained, I felt

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Speaker 8: like he was opened the door to talk about my

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Speaker 8: sexual life. If I would have done that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 8: like just given that green light that I'm okay with

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Speaker 8: this behavior.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So what was the benefit?

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Speaker 8: The benefit was the whole point in telling us, telling

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Speaker 8: me to get what zapp was. You know, this was

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Speaker 8: a way for him to give us tips. So the

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Speaker 8: benefit was if we're friendly, if we had this good relationship,

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Speaker 8: then he would give us good scoops and tips about

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00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 8: things going on in the police department.

446
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: The reporter knew of other women who felt the same way,

447
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: but they either decided it was too risky to complain

448
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: or felt it didn't rise to the level of needing

449
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: to report. So without any other complaints, the investigation was

450
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: relatively thin and it looked like Joel was going to

451
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: talk his way out of this one. We actually received

452
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: the recording of Joel doing exactly that.

453
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 11: This is Commander of Ty Sholshski with Colshman's Police Department

454
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 11: Professional Standards Division. Today is February eleventh, twenty nineteen. I

455
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 11: am interviewing Lieutenant Joel Kern in regards to internal Affairs

456
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 11: case nineteen zero three zero.

457
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: Oshevski asked Joel to explain why he had urged reporters

458
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: to download WhatsApp, an encrypted app that his supervisors couldn't monitor.

459
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: This was a violation of department rules, and Joel knew it.

460
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 9: At the time.

461
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: There was like this big thing in the media about

462
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: you know, stories being lead and released, and then there's

463
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: different apps that people communicate the reporters about to be

464
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: like a safe method of communication with the reporters or whatever.

465
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: Safe meaning like secure.

466
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: At first, Joel said it was for security, but the

467
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: IA officer wasn't.

468
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 11: By I'm not, I guess I don't understand if you're

469
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 11: worried about stories leaking, why was it only these two women?

470
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I see where you're going with that.

471
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: And again it's because I was communicating with them the most,

472
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: like one.

473
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 9: That was always asking the questions the most.

474
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 3: I don't think it was.

475
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: Anything that would be like a targeting thing or anything

476
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 2: like that.

477
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 11: Were you trying to just target? When you say target,

478
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 11: I mean I think get more friendlier with those two,

479
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 11: maybe hoping it might go somewhere.

480
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: I think if I was honest with myself, then I

481
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: would say, yeah, that would be an.

482
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 9: A curious statement.

483
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: Are they young? Are they old or middle aged?

484
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 9: I guess like twenties, arly, thirties.

485
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 11: Okay, middle aged Joel, it's like fifty okay.

486
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 18: Are they attractive? Are they not?

487
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 5: Okay?

488
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 11: So you were saying that you were singling those two

489
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 11: out for the WhatsApp of it?

490
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: That sounds bad of it.

491
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that, if I'm honest with myself, that

492
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: would be a fair statement. You know, they're very smart

493
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: and like I say, witty and there's fun to talk to.

494
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: And then so I think then that's where the flirtation

495
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: came in, and then the sexual uino It wouldn't be

496
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: something that i'd want my wife or kids reading obviously.

497
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,239
Speaker 11: So Joel, when you're talking about the flirtation, was that

498
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 11: on your part?

499
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: Well, whose part was that on?

500
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 4: I think it was.

501
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 9: I think it's like mutual flirtation.

502
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 10: And then.

503
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: Things weren't good at home.

504
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: Right as the conversation gets to the heart of the issue,

505
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: his abuse of power, Dole pivots. He wells up with

506
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: tears and changes the subject too what he's been going

507
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: through recently.

508
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 11: Why did you have these conversations with them, the sexual

509
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 11: innuendo conversation.

510
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: That was in a bad place with my marriage at

511
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: the time, and emotionally, and then I think I got

512
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: maybe just like sucked into a trap or reading things

513
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: into things that were being said that we're not really there.

514
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Caroline had no idea her marriage was in a bad

515
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: place in twenty nineteen. If you remember from episode one,

516
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: Caroline shared Joel had a few breakdowns and ultimately started therapy.

517
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: He had mentioned witnessing the carnage from fatal accident scenes

518
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 1: and his fear about their kids starting to drive, but

519
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 1: she'd been there for him and they worked through it

520
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: as a couple. As the interview continued, Joel read the room,

521
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: he realized his best strategy would be to fall on

522
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: the sword.

523
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed, I'm humiliated, I'm ashamed. I know what I

524
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: did was wrong. I'm very sorry for it, and I've

525
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: taken proactive steps to help myself get better again. I

526
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: take four responsibility for my actions, and I asked for mercy.

527
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: Joel had been on the record pleading for mercy three

528
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: years before his official suspension, which was on April eleventh,

529
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and on April eleventh, the truth was

530
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: finally being laid bare. In their living room, Caroline and

531
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: their daughter were on the couch and their son was

532
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: on speakerphone. They listened to Joel confess that he'd been

533
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: lying and covering his tracks for years.

534
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 5: And then he went on a tirade of continuing to

535
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 5: blame me and said that he didn't think we had

536
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 5: sex enough, and then he started making crass comments about

537
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 5: his sexual needs. Our daughter was just wailing and crying,

538
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 5: and our son hung up. He never removed his wedding ring.

539
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 5: He always kept an one, but then he struggled.

540
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 6: For a long time.

541
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 5: It finally gets his ring off inside of it I

542
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 5: had engraved forever and ever, sets it down on the fireplace,

543
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 5: walks over and fills up his yetti cup, and just

544
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 5: walked out the door.

545
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: Caroline's entire world had come apart in a single afternoon. Immediately,

546
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: she reached out to a close friend who would soon

547
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: take on a greater role in her life.

548
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 19: My name is Don and I'm a family law attorney.

549
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: Don was a good friend to both Caroline and Joel.

550
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 19: I was shocked, absolutely shocked when I heard the news.

551
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 19: For me to not even have an inkling of his

552
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 19: other side, I guess bothered me because they usually have

553
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 19: a pretty good gut feeling about people.

554
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: Don normally made it policy not to represent her friends

555
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: in a divorce, but she made an exception this time,

556
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: not so much for Caroline, but for the kids.

557
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 19: The children are very proud of their parents accomplishments. They

558
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 19: really appreciated and respected what they did. That was part

559
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 19: of their identity is that their parents were so great.

560
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 19: So when this all happened, my inkling for the children

561
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 19: was everything that they know, everything that they thought was

562
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 19: good and pure or whatever real is not.

563
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: The kids had to find a way to keep going.

564
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: Their son wanted to come home from college, but Caroline

565
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't allow it, and their daughter.

566
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 6: Everything happened on a Monday, and that Wednesday, I took

567
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 6: my SATs. I had a plan, like I still needed

568
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 6: to go to college. So, you know, she kind of ingraining.

569
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 6: I guess, the sort of motivation where you need to

570
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 6: do something, you just get it done.

571
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: As for Caroline, she was on autopilot. Her friends came

572
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: to her with some unsettling but important advice.

573
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 5: You know, they let me know, you really should set

574
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 5: doctor's appointment to make sure that I don't have anything

575
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 5: and have a full STI STD screen and so I

576
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 5: called this facility humili asked if I could schedule an

577
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 5: appointment specifically for this. They said yes, And when I

578
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 5: walked in, I tried to keep myself together. And then

579
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 5: I sat in the exam room and this nurse practitioner

580
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 5: who I had seen dozens of times for my kids'

581
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 5: sports physicals, she walked in the room and I just

582
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 5: immediately lost it. I'm in this exam room, I'm crying.

583
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 5: I'm telling her these very personal details of what's just

584
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 5: been revealed. And so she does a full exam and

585
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 5: she leaves the room, and when she came back in,

586
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 5: she just had this horrible, fearful look on her face.

587
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 5: And I just was sobbing, and I said, you can

588
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 5: tell I have something, can't you. You can already tell I

589
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 5: have something, And she shook her head and she said no.

590
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 5: She was debating on telling me that Joel had essentially

591
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 5: been blacklisted from seeing her because he had come in

592
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 5: four different appointments before and had been and appropriate with

593
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 5: his commentary and very sexualized with his commentary toward her.

594
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 5: And I was mortified. And she said, given what I

595
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 5: was going through, if she was in my shoes, she'd

596
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 5: want to know.

597
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: Caroline had as drol repeatedly, what else, what else have

598
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: you done? She didn't want any more surprises. There had

599
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: to be more than just two affairs, and this experience

600
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: was confirmation that her instincts were dead on.

601
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 5: I was just humiliated hearing from another female that my

602
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 5: husband had approached them in a manner that made them

603
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 5: feel so uncomfortable that they could not even professionally see.

604
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 5: It was humiliating, absolutely humiliating. I got to the parking

605
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 5: lot and I called him and he answered, and I

606
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 5: said to him, this is what was just told to me.

607
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 5: And he was very calm, and he said, I'm sorry.

608
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 5: And I said, you knew this and he said yes,

609
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 5: they let me know, and I knew how I behaved,

610
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: and I'm embarrassed. And he was just so matter of

611
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 5: fact about it. And I was infuriated, absolutely infuriated. And

612
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 5: I saw his location and I drove to the campsite

613
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 5: where he was at at the RV park.

614
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: Joel was staying in their family RV at a campground.

615
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 5: And I just started banging on the door and he

616
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 5: opened the door and I told him, do not lie

617
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 5: to me, do not lie to me. I want to

618
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 5: know what you have done. You are someone who I

619
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 5: don't even know, and I want to know the secret

620
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 5: life that you have lived behind our backs.

621
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: Nicole was at school when she noticed Caroline's location on

622
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: their Family Life three sixty app.

623
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 13: I don't really want to have my mom alone with

624
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 13: my dad because I was really scared of my dad

625
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 13: because I thought like he did all this stuff without

626
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 13: us knowing.

627
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 5: I don't know what he's capable of. Next thing, you know,

628
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 5: there's banging at the door of our RV. She just

629
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 5: got up and left her classroom at the high school

630
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 5: and drove to where we were at, and as we

631
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 5: were sitting there, she walked calmly over to a laptop

632
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,959
Speaker 5: he had taken from our home.

633
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: Nicole grabbed Joel's computer and started looking through it, logging

634
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: onto various websites and reading his emails and text messages.

635
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: They were there for the truth. All those long nights

636
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: on duty. What else had Joel been up to? How

637
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: far did his misconduct go?

638
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 5: Suddenly, through our daughter's forensic reveal of his computer, the

639
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 5: number of people he had sex with just started growing dramatically.

640
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: Nicole dialed in her older brother. She wanted him to

641
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: hear everything, so it became the next family meeting, and

642
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: then Nicole started recording on her phone. She wanted documentation.

643
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: She and her mom were running on adrenaline.

644
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 9: Cat and mouse, Cat and mouse, Cat and mouse.

645
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: You just have to keep being caught.

646
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: Why can't you just spell it all out?

647
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 9: Because I can't remember everything because you.

648
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 5: Had so many people.

649
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 6: How many people didn't talk to?

650
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 5: Fifteen one hundred? What's the range?

651
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 10: Fifty sounds good?

652
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 5: How many times did you actually physically meet someone?

653
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: This is why I'm telling you, like around the seven ten.

654
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 6: And then another thought I had today, I cannot drive

655
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 6: around the city without questioning. I wonder if my did

656
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 6: received oral sex.

657
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: And this parking lot.

658
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 13: Remember that day we went.

659
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 10: To Memorial Park.

660
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 6: We looked at the police memorial.

661
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 5: And all that you wanted us to see the police memorial.

662
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 6: We ran races over by Memorial Park.

663
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: Memorial Park was where Joel met the first woman to

664
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: have sex in his cop car. At first he denied

665
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: he was working when they met up.

666
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 6: But then I know.

667
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: Where I told you after work earlier, but.

668
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 10: I'm pretty sure it was like mid morning or lunchtime

669
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 10: or whatever. And then went back to work and then

670
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 10: worked out and took a shower and all that, so you.

671
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 5: Left work, went and had sex with someone on the

672
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 5: city's dime.

673
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: Everyone thought Joel was one of the good ones, an

674
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: honorable cop. They had sacrificed so much for his career.

675
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: She didn't recognize this man. In fact, she didn't recognize

676
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: her life at all. Her life was now split into two,

677
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: two realities running parallel tracks. There were her memories, and

678
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: then there was everything Joel was doing.

679
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 5: Behind her back.

680
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: All of those late nights, the miss sports games, the holidays.

681
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: Where was he? Her brain never went there. She didn't

682
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: know what was real anymore. It was a sad and

683
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: terrifying feeling.

684
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 5: The kids and I thought we were living this life

685
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 5: of love and a family. I'm purity more things perfect,

686
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 5: of course not do we argue about taking trash out

687
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 5: and who was going to pick up from dinner yup?

688
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 5: But never did I think that anything like this was

689
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 5: going on behind our backs.

690
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: Ever, So was this finally the full picture? We're all

691
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: of Joel's secrets out in the open. No, not even close.

692
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: Here's Caroline and Joel's son.

693
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 7: I'm not naive to the fact that all of us

694
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 7: are human, and everybody makes mistakes, and everybody has their shortcomings,

695
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 7: and everybody has flaws and demons that they with but

696
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 7: to me, there's a clear line here between being a

697
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 7: fallible person and monstrosity.

698
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal, Caroline comes to the

699
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: realization that Joel has been gaslighting her for years.

700
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 5: So I'm literally watching the phone where I can see

701
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 5: him speeding to our house. He's not at another accident,

702
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 5: he's not at the hospital. He's coming from somewhere. And

703
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 5: so when he got home, I said, are you lying

704
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 5: to me?

705
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: And more revelations about his double life are exposed. Thank

706
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: you for listening to Betrayal season four. If you would

707
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us

708
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

709
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow

710
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H.

711
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way

712
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show

713
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal. Five star

714
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal

715
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment.

716
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

717
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is hosted

718
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by

719
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producers

720
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart team is

721
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard,

722
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins,

723
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme

724
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by mid

725
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Music and For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,

726
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,