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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure, but will be

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Speaker 2: returning shortly.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are

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Speaker 3: here and that makes this the stuff they don't want

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Speaker 3: you to know. Tonight's episode is a continuation of an

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Speaker 3: excellent story you discovered, Matt, A terrifying story that takes

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Speaker 3: us to San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: We and our fellow conspiracy realist first learned about this

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Speaker 3: in a recent Strange News segment San Francisco. Man, have

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Speaker 3: you been to San Francisco?

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Speaker 2: I spent quite a bit of time in San Francisco. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: for the old Zodiac show.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, and do check out do check

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Speaker 3: out Monster Zodiac. I think it's some of the best

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Speaker 3: reporting on that on the Terrible, Terrible case. So what

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Speaker 3: did you did you see the contrast of San Francisco

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Speaker 3: as a society when you were there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look, I'm an outsider. I don't live there

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Speaker 2: every day. What I saw was incredible wealth on display

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Speaker 2: in a lot of areas of the city, and a

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Speaker 2: perhaps intense number of unhoused human beings that were living

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Speaker 2: like amongst all of that splendor. That's what I saw.

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Speaker 2: You go outside the city just a little ways and

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Speaker 2: some of the same problems exist, but they're not nearly

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Speaker 2: as I guess in your face as the kind of

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Speaker 2: inequality that exist.

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Speaker 3: There, like Oakland, Richmond, the various Bay Area suburbs. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 3: nailed it. I've spent some time there as well, also

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Speaker 3: due to work related things. They're world changing tech empires

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Speaker 3: in San Francisco, tons of multi millionaires and just astonishing inequality.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, I heard someone who was not from

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Speaker 3: the US describe San Francisco as the most American of

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Speaker 3: American cities. Because usually when we hear about San Francisco

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Speaker 3: and the news, we hear about drugs and housing problems.

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Speaker 3: We hear about these crazy tech startups, or of course

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Speaker 3: we hear about the crushing price of real estate, which

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Speaker 3: is still at accelerating, exacerbating dare I say metastasizing trend

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Speaker 3: and all of these things are real problems. But there's

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Speaker 3: another issue that hasn't gotten near as much attention, and

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Speaker 3: that's what we talked about in our previous Strange News segment.

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Speaker 3: According to the critics, there is, as we speak this evening,

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Speaker 3: a real, genuine conspiracy afoot in San Francisco, and the

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Speaker 3: conspirator is none other than the United States Navy. Here

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Speaker 3: are the facts. Matt Hunter's point.

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Speaker 2: Hunter's point, Yeah, what more can you say? No, it's

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Speaker 2: Hunter's point. Is one of the areas in San Francisco's

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Speaker 2: like the Bay Area as they call it. That is,

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Speaker 2: it is literally on the Bay. It is I don't know,

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Speaker 2: an out well, what would you call it? An outcropping

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Speaker 2: of land. It's a part of an Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 2: an outcropping of land that was used for a long

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Speaker 2: time for a lot of different purposes. But right now

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Speaker 2: as we're talking about it, there are human beings living

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Speaker 2: on it, there are human beings working on it. But

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Speaker 2: my goodness, people have been there for ages, hundreds and

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Speaker 2: hundreds of years.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and San Francisco itself is an outcropping of land,

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Speaker 3: which is part of the reason they're having such a

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Speaker 3: tough time with real estate, with having a place to live.

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Speaker 3: If you look at if you look at a map,

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Speaker 3: you know, pull up your favorite big brother, which will

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Speaker 3: be Google Maps, then you'll see that it is on

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Speaker 3: the eastern side Hunter's Point, and it is sort of

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Speaker 3: sheltered from the ocean, but it is still navigable for

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Speaker 3: large ships. This would come to be very important now.

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Speaker 3: For thousands of years before Spanish missionaries arrived in the

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Speaker 3: seventeen hundreds, this was home to native peoples, the yell

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Speaker 3: Mahu and the Rametush. We're not native speakers, please forgive

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Speaker 3: our pronunciation. And shortly after the arrival of the Spanish Empire,

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Speaker 3: the district came a hot bed of development, and that

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Speaker 3: transformed into industrial development. As we know, geography steers most

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Speaker 3: human endeavors, and this is the perfect place to build ships.

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Speaker 3: You are somewhat sheltered from the Pacific Ocean proper, and

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Speaker 3: you can still sail your ship at the time out

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Speaker 3: into the ocean, and from there you can go wherever

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Speaker 3: you wish. So it's no surprise that in eighteen seventy

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Speaker 3: Hunters Point became home to a commercial shipyard. And for

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Speaker 3: a while I didn't know this. For a while, it

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Speaker 3: was known as the world's greatest shipping yard. Even Teddy

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Speaker 3: Roosevelt was a fan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know that either prior to this episode.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations Hunter's point. Let's go ahead and point out Ben,

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Speaker 2: as you did in the outline here, there is no

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Speaker 2: apostrophe in Hunters. It is Hunter's plural point.

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Speaker 3: It's a weird one, right, that's so weird. That's one

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Speaker 3: that kept us going back to different sources and saying,

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Speaker 3: all right, well, let's just double check that part.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: If we fast forward even further to nineteen forty, just

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Speaker 3: one year before Imperial Japanese forces attack the US at

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Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor, the US Navy purchases the shipyard, the entire

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Speaker 3: thing Hunter's point. This is as as you had pointed out, Matt,

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Speaker 3: this is a lot of land. If you were a

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Speaker 3: San Francisco real estate developer, and this is a little

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Speaker 3: bit of foreshadowing, then the idea of owning eight hundred

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Speaker 3: and sixty six acres of land there, right, you've won

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Speaker 3: monopoly man.

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Speaker 2: Well that's like that's at least a billion dollars, Like hey,

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Speaker 2: like well long time ago. Wow, Yeah, eight d sixty

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Speaker 2: six acres of land. That's beautiful, and the Navy ran

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Speaker 2: shop there from nineteen forty one until nineteen seventy four,

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Speaker 2: it was the San Francisco Naval Shipyard.

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Speaker 3: And then in seventy four it was deactivated. It had

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Speaker 3: yet another name change, and we're giving you just the

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Speaker 3: broad overview here, folks. It had. It was changed to

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Speaker 3: Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard, and then it was a commercial

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Speaker 3: shipyard again until about nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Then the Navy took it back because they were like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, that was actually pretty cool. It's been

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Speaker 2: twelve years. I think we'd like it back, please, or

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Speaker 2: there's no please, probably, but they took it back and

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Speaker 2: they made it the home of a thing called the

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Speaker 2: USS Missouri Battle Group, which you know, it's the fight

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Speaker 2: in Missouri's well, that's exciting, and like, as we're going

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Speaker 2: through this, as Ben says, this is the you know,

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Speaker 2: we're painting with a broad brush here at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: just to give you an idea of the timeline. But

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Speaker 2: a lot happened from nineteen forty one to nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: four to nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it happened in secret and the American

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Speaker 3: public overall was unaware. The international public had no idea,

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Speaker 3: And sadly, throughout these decades that you just mentioned, Bett

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Speaker 3: locals started having some suspicions and concerns that were absolutely ignored.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety one, the base gets closed as or

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Speaker 3: they decide to close the base as part of a

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Speaker 3: larger budgetary effort, and we'll see why operations spun down

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Speaker 3: and the whole thing was shut down completely in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety four. Urban decaysed sets in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, urban decayse that's in. And just the reasoning there

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Speaker 2: you've put in the outline here been is that it

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Speaker 2: was the base itself was redundant. We don't need this

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Speaker 2: really because there are a ton of naval shipyards and

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Speaker 2: bases along that whole area there in the Bay area.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you think about Mayor Island, which is

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Speaker 2: up a little bit further north near Valeo, it's huge

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Speaker 2: and it was operating for a long time. Ton of

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Speaker 2: ships going in and out of there, a ton of

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Speaker 2: naval personnel moving in and out of that area.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and in both Mayor Island and in Hunter's Point.

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Speaker 3: What we're establishing is that a lot of history went

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Speaker 3: down in these places. Some of it was very ugly,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of it remains stuff they don't want

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Speaker 3: you to know. Parts of the first atomic bombs were

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Speaker 3: loaded up here fissile material for them, so like bullets

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Speaker 3: for the guns. And from the end of World War Two,

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Speaker 3: all the way up to nineteen sixty nine. Nice, I'm

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Speaker 3: like ten years old. Anyway, up to nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 3: Hunter's Point was home to an immensely important and immensely

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Speaker 3: dangerous operation known as the Naval Radiological Defense Laboratory. At

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Speaker 3: the time, this was the military's largest nuclear research facility.

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Speaker 3: They were doing crazy Openheimer level stuff in one room

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Speaker 3: and then they were eating sandwiches for lunch next door.

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Speaker 2: Wow, a weird connection. Nineteen sixty nine is right around

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Speaker 2: the time when the Zodiac killings stopped, So they ended

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Speaker 2: while the Naval Radiological Defense Laboratory was winding down. Huh.

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Speaker 2: Maybe somebody left for a job somewhere else. Huh. Maybe. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we can't prove it. That's not true.

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Speaker 3: We can't prove it's not true. No Zodiac is though. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to put you on the spot, but

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Speaker 3: I think it is a kick ass show. And I'm

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Speaker 3: really glad it's out there.

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Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just interested in who the heck this

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Speaker 2: person was, Come on, let's find.

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Speaker 3: Them or is So there are decades of nuclear testing

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Speaker 3: in this place. And again, this is San Francisco metro

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Speaker 3: area at this point. So think of your town wherever

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Speaker 3: you live, and odds are, statistically speaking, you live in

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Speaker 3: a conturbation or a metro area of some sort. But

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Speaker 3: if you live in a very small town, it gets

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Speaker 3: even creepier. Imagine if somewhere out there on the outskirts

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Speaker 3: of your town, where all the old warehouses and all

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Speaker 3: the dilapidated barbed wire is, there's a secret basement where

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Speaker 3: people are conducting experiments with radioactive consequences. There are decades

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Speaker 3: of nuclear testing that occur here. There is a thing

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Speaker 3: called Operation Crossroads that resulted in Hunter's Point becoming a

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Speaker 3: site for decontamination of ships that have been used in

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Speaker 3: nuclear testing abroad. So like our Marshall Islands Pacific Ocean experiments,

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Speaker 3: which absolutely devastated things for people who live in those areas,

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Speaker 3: they would come back, they would get washed up and cleaned.

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Speaker 2: Here. Yeah, we're talking sand blasting like a huge ship

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Speaker 2: that went through nuclear weapon testing, right, got irradiated, got

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Speaker 2: parked back at this place, and then a whole huge

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Speaker 2: team of people sand blasted the exterior of that ship

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Speaker 2: and the surfaces of that ship. And guess where all

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Speaker 2: that waste went? Oh where, into the water, into the

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Speaker 2: sewer system that's there. And it wasn't just that. There

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Speaker 2: was also the radio luminescent paint that was used on

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Speaker 2: all of those ships to just let you know what

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Speaker 2: things are on the ship and where to go, where

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Speaker 2: to walk in passageways when it's let's say you've got

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Speaker 2: to turn all the lights off for one strategic reason

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Speaker 2: or another. Like all of that stuff, when it gets

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Speaker 2: washed off or sand blasted, it all goes into the

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Speaker 2: same systems right there.

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Speaker 3: To sloopy dupe down the drain. Consequences be damned shitnoopy doupe.

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Speaker 3: Sloopy doupe. And that's obviously that is a specific term

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Speaker 3: in nuclear research, so sloopy doupe. Any nuclear scientists will

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Speaker 3: clearly understand the consequences of that. In short, just like

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Speaker 3: in pet cemetery, as Stephen King wrote, the soil Sala

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Speaker 3: and The Guardian had a great article that we wanted

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Speaker 3: to shout out this is some of the best I

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Speaker 3: guess international coverage you can see on this Tom Perkins

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Speaker 3: from June of twenty twenty three, a couple months ago.

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Speaker 3: As we record this evening, Tom points out that this

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Speaker 3: shipyard didn't just clean contaminated ships. They didn't just violate

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Speaker 3: what would later be the standards for nuclear disposal. They

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Speaker 3: also injected animals with strontium ninety, a very specific and

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Speaker 3: dangerous substance that does something super nasty. They call it

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Speaker 3: like the bone seeker. It will replace the calcium in organisms,

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Speaker 3: and it is one hundred percent carcinogenic. It is not

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Speaker 3: It's not something where you like play the odds, like

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Speaker 3: drinking too much or smoking cigarettes. This will kill you

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Speaker 3: slowly and painfully.

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Speaker 2: And as James Dahlgren puts it, who is a specialist

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Speaker 2: in environmental toxicology, he says, once it gets in the bone,

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Speaker 2: it stays there. Then it turns over slowly and it

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Speaker 2: just continues to give off radioactivity.

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Speaker 3: And James's going to make an appearance later in the

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Speaker 3: show as well because he's got some stuff to say.

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Speaker 3: We I think you and I both have immense respect

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Speaker 3: for him. Strontium ninety was also used to create that

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Speaker 3: glow in the dark paint that you mentioned, Matt, and

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Speaker 3: it probably washed off on ships that were testing bombs

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Speaker 3: in the Pacific. In short, this is bad bad. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't look great. Hunter's point is currently ground zero get

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Speaker 3: it for some widespread remediation projects. And Matt, it's not

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Speaker 3: just strontium ninety right, there's a There are a couple

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Speaker 3: of other pretty bad customers in the midshere.

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Speaker 2: They're particular versions of caesium and radium caeaesium one thirty

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Speaker 2: seven and radium two twenty six also not great. And

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Speaker 2: again this is just this is stuff that you deal

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Speaker 2: with not just because of the ships, right, not just

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Speaker 2: because of the nuclear testing, but because of the power

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Speaker 2: generation that occurred in that area. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And as of just a few years ago, on August

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, so just about three years ago now,

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Speaker 3: the site is still being quote unquote cleaned up. The

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Speaker 3: Navy in fact, has split the property into multiple sections

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Speaker 3: or parcels would be their preferred term. And they're right

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Speaker 3: now they have well they're going piece by piece, you

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Speaker 3: could say, but what they're really doing is they're contracting

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Speaker 3: out the work and arguably passing the buck along to

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Speaker 3: some private industry actors who are going step by step,

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Speaker 3: piece by piece, parcel by parcel, and conducting what are

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Speaker 3: called remediation efforts, which means cleaning out the caesum one

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Speaker 3: thirty seven, getting rid of the radium to twenty six,

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Speaker 3: and the stronium ninety and then they're declaring this stuff clean.

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Speaker 3: And they've got a huge ticking clock on them. Because

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Speaker 3: the Navy doesn't want to be in charge of this

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Speaker 3: land anymore, and because San Francisco is in the midst

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Speaker 3: of an ongoing cartoonishly bad housing crisis, the city itself

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Speaker 3: wants this land remediated such that they can make tons

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Speaker 3: of new housing developments and billions of dollars for all

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Speaker 3: sorts of stakeholders. But Matt, like you know, as you

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Speaker 3: and I were talking about off air, problem is these

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Speaker 3: parcels aren't all created equally. Pollution doesn't have an ideological boundary,

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Speaker 3: It doesn't practice socioeconomic redlines.

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Speaker 2: No, no, it doesn't. I was looking at just the

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Speaker 2: picture of the different parcels. You can find it online

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Speaker 2: if you want to look it up. You can search

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Speaker 2: for Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard parcel map. And that's par

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Speaker 2: cel by the way, but basically you can see gosh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly when this one was created. I

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Speaker 2: think it was around twenty twenty. This map particular one

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Speaker 2: that I'm looking at, but it's highlighting Parcel A, which

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Speaker 2: is two little separate pieces of the area that are

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Speaker 2: already basically being used and you know, have people living

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Speaker 2: and working and doing all kinds of things on them.

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Speaker 2: Then if you go north, like to the tip north,

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Speaker 2: that's Parcel B, and then it kind of goes wraps

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Speaker 2: around C D E. And then right in the center

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Speaker 2: of all of that, right at the center of the

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Speaker 2: area is Parcel G. And that's one that we're going

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Speaker 2: to focus on a little bit because we've got some

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Speaker 2: reporting out of that one specifically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is all just the here are the

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Speaker 3: facts portion of the show, folks. We got to tell

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Speaker 3: you some of these land parcels shout out Parcel G

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Speaker 3: appear to have much more contamination than others, depending on

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Speaker 3: who you ask, Because some people will tell you that

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Speaker 3: everything is peachy king if you listen to official Navy sources,

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Speaker 3: things are five by five. We're moving right along. However,

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Speaker 3: if you listen to pretty much any source other than

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Speaker 3: the US Navy, including other government agencies. Then you will

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Speaker 3: see strong indications that there is a cover up a

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Speaker 3: foot one spanning generations and lives. Maybe on the line.

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Speaker 3: What are we talking about. We'll tell you after a

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Speaker 3: word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. Okay, man.

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Speaker 3: You know, Matt, you and I have talked about this

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Speaker 3: offline a little bit. The US Navy is being represented

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Speaker 3: by the Department of Justice in no less than twelve

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Speaker 3: completely different lawsuits all about Hunter's point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's not great. I mean, anytime you try

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Speaker 2: and repurpose a piece of land like this, it's gonna

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Speaker 2: get hairy.

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Speaker 3: Right. You can look in to Chernobyl Hills.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. You can either put up all the money and

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Speaker 2: time and effort at the very beginning, when you know

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Speaker 2: when the Navy was thinking about changing the use of

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Speaker 2: this land and clean that thing like crazy, or you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to clean it over time and deal with

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Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. But I would argue, even if

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Speaker 2: your intention was to fully clean that place Roto Router

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Speaker 2: the thing, I don't think you would be able to

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Speaker 2: get it up to standards that you would need to

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Speaker 2: in the short amount of time. Basically that this place

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Speaker 2: has been pressed, maybe politically, to get ready for residential

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Speaker 2: use in those kinds of things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I appreciate you saying that. I think we're

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Speaker 3: on the same page, because how no one likes to

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Speaker 3: admit it, but some things cannot be cleaned. In some cases,

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Speaker 3: the only thing that will bring a piece of land

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Speaker 3: back to a livable state is time, and it can

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Speaker 3: take quite a lot of time. That's why so many

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Speaker 3: incredibly intelligent scientists have been hired by various governments to

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Speaker 3: figure out how to warn people about nuclear waste sites

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Speaker 3: thousands of years in the future. This is not something

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Speaker 3: you can pressure wash, you know. And that's that's an

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Speaker 3: unfortunate reality. And the problem with unfortunate realities is there

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Speaker 3: it's politically convenient to ignore them. Let's also not ignore

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Speaker 3: the thousands of people that have been living in the

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Speaker 3: larger neighborhood for quite some time. You know, redevelopment. We'll

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Speaker 3: get to that in a segment. What you need to know,

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Speaker 3: if you're not familiar with San Francisco and the conspiracy here,

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Speaker 3: is that redevelopment projects for this neighborhood started in the

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Speaker 3: late or started to excuse me, in the nineteen nineineties,

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Speaker 3: and again in the two thousands, and then again in

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Speaker 3: the twenty tens, and in each iteration of this cycle,

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Speaker 3: there was somebody coming in cowboy style and saying, we're

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Speaker 3: gonna clean this up. We're gonna make this a good neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: You know, historically it's been a bad neighborhood. And when

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Speaker 3: they said that, they weren't talking about Strontium ninety. They

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Speaker 3: were doing a dog whistle for racism. They were talking

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Speaker 3: about the historically oppressed people who have been living in

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Speaker 3: that neighborhood since the Great Migration.

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Speaker 2: Well as you're saying, been The larger San Francisco resident

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Speaker 2: base got a chance to vote on whether or not

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Speaker 2: they wanted a full cleanup in this thing called Proposition P.

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Speaker 2: It's from a vote that occurred in the year two

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Speaker 2: thousand and those residents got to vote yes or no

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Speaker 2: to the following quote, Shall it be city policy to

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Speaker 2: support a full cleanup by the Navy of the Hunter's

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Speaker 2: Point Shipyard to allow unrestricted use of the entire site

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Speaker 2: in the future. Eighty Oh, ben, I hear, I hear

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Speaker 2: the thunder. Now at your place, y'all were going through

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Speaker 2: a storm in two different parts of the Atlanta metro area.

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Speaker 2: And it's really interesting how it's kind of gone from

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Speaker 2: my area to Ben's area.

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Speaker 3: Best way to record stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 3: know every time we record during a storm, if we

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Speaker 3: can keep the power on. Sure, that was something cool

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Speaker 3: at Cheers.

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Speaker 2: So this that weird statement, Shall it be policy to

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Speaker 2: have the Navy clean it up? Eighty six point four

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Speaker 2: percent of San Francisco residents voted yes, it shall be

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Speaker 2: city policy to do that. That's two hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: one four hundred and fifty six people. Thirteen point six

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Speaker 2: voted no. It's around thirty eight thousand people. I know

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Speaker 2: it's a little weirdly and it doesn't really do anything.

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Speaker 2: It's not like an effective bill or anything. It's a proposition,

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Speaker 2: basically for the city to put pressure on the Navy

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Speaker 2: to do what it was supposed to do and clean

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Speaker 2: up the entire place.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's a statement. It's a statement depicting the will

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Speaker 3: of the people. It's a non binding declaration. But it

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Speaker 3: seems there is overwhelming public support. So if democracy works,

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Speaker 3: then eighty six point four percent is a pretty epic majority.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I would, I would say so.

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Speaker 3: But you're right. The idea here is good, the intentions

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Speaker 3: are good. Let us, as the people of San Francisco,

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Speaker 3: hold our federal government or military accountable. Let's make sure

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Speaker 3: the Navy does complete this cleanup. Because we as locals

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Speaker 3: of San Francisco, or at least about eighty six percent

382
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Speaker 3: of us, we as locals have heard the stories, and

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Speaker 3: we have heard for decades complaints that cancer rates are

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Speaker 3: higher here, that infant mortality is higher here in this

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Speaker 3: specific neighborhood. And we can think of no other cause

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00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: than this secret, this dirty, dirty stuff that's been buried

387
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: for so long, and there is an unclean history here

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Speaker 3: on several levels. Like we mentioned just a few minutes ago, people,

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Speaker 3: largely African American people, have been living in this area

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Speaker 3: ever since the Great Migration, and by the late a

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Speaker 3: lot of it actually comes from the fact that I

392
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Speaker 3: think back in the day in the late eighteen hundreds,

393
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Speaker 3: San Francisco moved all their slaughter houses out here. They

394
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Speaker 3: couldn't be in the city limits proper, and so by

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Speaker 3: the late nineteen sixties there were more than fifty thousand

396
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Speaker 3: people living in this neighborhood now collectively known as Bayview

397
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Speaker 3: Hunter's Point, or often just referred to as Bayview, and

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Speaker 3: by the nineteen eighties it had already been deemed a

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Speaker 3: superfund site. I guess we should we should talk a

400
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: little bit about what a superfund site is. We've talked

401
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: about it in the past, but it's something people need

402
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 3: to need to know. If you haven't heard it yet.

403
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically, again, a site, a place, a parcel

404
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: of land if you will, that requires intense cleanup after

405
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: some kind of ecological disaster, some kind of usually chemical

406
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: or biological. It's usually chemical or radioactive disaster, and the

407
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: government says, hey, things need to be done with this

408
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: before this land could be used for anything else. And

409
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: often there are budgets associated with cleaning up superfund sites.

410
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Speaker 2: In fact, would should we talk about this right now? Yeah,

411
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Speaker 2: there's a billion dollars, an extra cold one billion they

412
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: got put towards superfund site cleanup, I think just in

413
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: the past couple of years.

414
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's why we always want to give you

415
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 3: the real definition of superfund because it is a cartoonishly

416
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: misleading name. Superfunds sounds a lot like super friends. Oh

417
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: this land is great, Oh this money is good. The

418
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: money is great. Sure, the money is good. But superfund

419
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Speaker 3: sites and there are around forty thousand federal superfund sites

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Speaker 3: in the US.

421
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Speaker 2: Now, say, and how many.

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Speaker 3: Forty thousand Zerosi Rosiero. And they are some of the

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Speaker 3: most highly contaminated, worst places for humans to live in

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Speaker 3: this country. And the worst of the worst, the Krem

425
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: de la Krem are what are called the National Priorities

426
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Speaker 3: List or MPL sites, and they're about thirteen hundred of those.

427
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: They're all bad customers and if you live in one,

428
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: if at all possible, you should move, Okay. And we're

429
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Speaker 3: not saying that to denigrate the people who are working,

430
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 3: who are doing their best at these various government agencies.

431
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Speaker 3: They're just not going to be able to clean it

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Speaker 3: enough in time for you to avoid the in sequences. Yeah,

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00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: the consequences just so. And WECE had a great article

434
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 3: back in twenty fourteen where they said, you know, since

435
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: this became a superfund site, since Hunter's Point maybe became

436
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 3: a superfund site in the eighties, the area has been

437
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: quote plagued by generational poverty, turf violence, land hungry developers,

438
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 3: poisonous air and water, and most frustratingly, marginalization by the

439
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: rest of the city. So if you live there during

440
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: this time, you're getting attacked from all angles. You're getting attacked,

441
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 3: possibly by police violence, You're getting attacked by land hungry developers,

442
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 3: you know, sell your you want to sell your house,

443
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: call what a hundred boop de de boop and sloopy

444
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: doop your equity down the drain. And then you're also,

445
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 3: perhaps most importantly, getting intact in an invisible way, by

446
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: the environment in which you live.

447
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: You turn on your tap and there's poison in there,

448
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: or at least enough that it's going to affect you

449
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: and probably your children, almost definitely your children. It's not okay. Well, so,

450
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: as my dog attempts to climb into my lap here

451
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: because of the thunder, shout out meta, No, this one's Penny, Penny, Yeah,

452
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: she's Oh my gosh, Henny, he's really nervous. The big

453
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: question is all of this has been happening for years

454
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: and years and years. Right now. Land is so expensive,

455
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: right just astronomically expensive in San Francisco. Is there any

456
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: kind of reason that anybody would be trying to cover

457
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: stuff up to make money to get more budget? Like,

458
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: what is it? Why would people cover up how contaminated

459
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: land is. Is there something going on? It feels like

460
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: maybe there is.

461
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah. From the perspective of longtime local activists, this area,

462
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: which has been home to more than one fifth of

463
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 3: the city's black population, it's an easy target for a

464
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of good old boy back room

465
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: glad handing in the name of profit. And we want

466
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: to shout out public health advocates like a Misa Porter

467
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: Sunchai who claimed the US Navy is knowingly conspiring to

468
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: cover up dangerous, life threatening levels of radioactive waste all

469
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: to make sure these current development plans go through. Right now,

470
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: the land is slated to be turned over to the

471
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: City of San Francisco as early as twenty twenty four,

472
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: and then it's off to the races you can use

473
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: for residential development, and Uncle Sam can say, not my problem.

474
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: You guys signed off, you know, caveat em tour as

475
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: it were.

476
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, And also they can say, hey, we've we've

477
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: tested this place extensively and everything's cool. And that's what

478
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: that's where, That's where it gets really sticky in this

479
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 2: this topic. Because the Navy has done a ton of testing,

480
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: the EPA has done some testing third party groups have

481
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: done some testing, and nobody's saying the same things. Nobody's

482
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: got the same readings. That's a little weird.

483
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a little weird. Yeah. In twenty twenty one,

484
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: Navy testing their Navy Finance testing found twenty three samples

485
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: from the properties these various parcels showed high levels of

486
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: strawtium ninety. Again, a very nasty customer. That EPA raised

487
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 3: alarm over this because you know, it's their job. And

488
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, the Navy came back with some

489
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 3: beat me here, Paul, was some pretty wild. The Navy

490
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: said the EPA's testing was inaccurate. Here's some new data

491
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: that we got and we verified, and what we're showing

492
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: is that the levels of strontium ninety here are lower

493
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: than zero. Now, Matt, I'm not a math surgeon, neither

494
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: of you, but I think we can both agree less

495
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: than zero sounds kind of like a dodgy number.

496
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is dodgy. And the math surgeons and wizards

497
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: that were interviewed by NBC Bay Area all said BS,

498
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: that's BS can't have negative strontium ninety or zero strontium ninety.

499
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: The stuff is naturally occurring, and it will be, it

500
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: will exist wherever you're testing, just you know, it's not

501
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: gonna be zero. And let's also just go back really quickly,

502
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: because when the EPA like raised its hand and said, hey,

503
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: there's some problems here, they pointed out like something crazy

504
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: like ninety six percent of the Hunter's point land needed

505
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: to be retested and cleaned, basically like there's problems everywhere

506
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: in this area. And the Navy returned with nope, zero.

507
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: Well less then yeah, yeah, yeah, right, that's double plus

508
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: good right on. So yeah, it's funny. I love that

509
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: you're mentioning NBC Bay Area, which did some great reporting

510
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: on this. You can tell let's go by decreasing levels

511
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: of diplomacy. So we're gonna start with another government official,

512
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: EPA official said, keeping this person anonymous. The CPA official

513
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: sent an email to top officials in the Navy and said, look,

514
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: our results that you guys are objecting to, they are correct.

515
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 3: And if you say that there is negative straantium ninety

516
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: in the ground and you can't prove it to me,

517
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: then this quote reads as if the Navy is suppressing

518
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: data results it doesn't like in regards to strontium ninety data,

519
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: which is a very very diplomatic way of saying, I

520
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: caught you guys.

521
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: It certainly seems as though you're lying about this. And

522
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: that is a direct quote, by the way, that reads

523
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: as if the Navy is suppressing data. That is a

524
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: exact quote from an email.

525
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was not meant to be public. That

526
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 3: was internal, Like that was internal. We're on the same team. Yeah,

527
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 3: I'm just checking in because I would hate for there

528
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: to be a cove her up a foot. And then

529
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 3: there was a This is where Ray Tompkins mentioned earlier.

530
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: Ray Tompkins, he knows his stuff. He's a retired chemistry teacher.

531
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 3: He's now an environmental activist. And he talked about this

532
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 3: as well, and he was a little less diplomatic because

533
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 3: he's saying, I live here. I taught kids who live here.

534
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 3: They're having kids. And let me tell you, less than

535
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: zero is not a number here.

536
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's give it the quote here. You've got it

537
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: in the line, ben quote. To have a negative figure

538
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: on their data for strontium ninety you can't have it, period,

539
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: It's impossible. And he goes on to say in any

540
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: data that says that says, there's zero strontium ninety. You

541
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: must reject it if you have any integrity.

542
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: Oh, and then James Dalgren, a doctor specializing an environmental toxicology.

543
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: This guy says, forget up in the breaks. I don't

544
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 3: need to be diplomatic, straight out says, among many other things,

545
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: including the quotation we pulled earlier. I don't know why

546
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: I'm pointing behind me, but including the quotation we pulled earlier,

547
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: Dahlgren says, referring to this Navy report, he says, it

548
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: is false. It is offensive to me scientifically, and I

549
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: love an offended scientist, man, you know what I mean.

550
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 3: That's like that favorite. Yeah, there's something noble about it.

551
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: There's something ignoble about it, you know, like this species

552
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: historically punishes scientists for telling the truth, and there's a

553
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: great courage to that.

554
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree.

555
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 3: So let's continue diving in. We're going to take a

556
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 3: word from our sponsor with great support for our fellow

557
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist in stem, and then we're going to talk

558
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: a little bit more about something called Parcel G.

559
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Parcel G is one of the parcels of land,

560
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: a piece of land that is specifically a bunch of

561
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 2: buildings kind of right in the center of this place

562
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: called Hunter's Point, and it's forty acres, so forty of

563
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: that eight hundred and sixty six acres, so pretty tiny,

564
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: right little piece of it. And in twenty eighteen the

565
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: Navy decided, hey, we're going to do a quote, comprehensive

566
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: surface scan on this area. We're also going to check

567
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: the other ones. We're really going to check this one

568
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: out because the buildings that are on in this area,

569
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: it's almost like it bumps right up into where the

570
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: ships would come in, if that makes sense. So it's

571
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 2: not Parcel C and D one, which are literally the shipyard, right,

572
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: so where a ship would come in in the immediate

573
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 2: area where if you unloaded anything or if you worked

574
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: on that ship while it was docked. We're not talking

575
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: about that. We're talking about a little bit further in.

576
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: These are buildings that look to be industrial that were

577
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: used for all kinds of different things over those you know,

578
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 2: decades that this place was in use.

579
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I believe it was Parcel G and Parcel

580
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: B in specific were found to have the most unreliable testing.

581
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: I think ninety seven percent of the test. The original

582
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: test results for contaminants and parcel G were found to

583
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 3: be unreliable aka bulls.

584
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're we're specifically for the purposes of this episode,

585
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: and for this testing, we're looking at the storm drains,

586
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: the sewer lines, the water flow basically that's underneath the

587
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: land in these places, because we're talking about runoff, we're

588
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: talking about the dumping of waste just into those sewer lines,

589
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: and then the build up of things like strontium ninety

590
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: in those systems.

591
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: And caesium one thirty seven is really bad if you

592
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: are very concentrated. If you look at the work plan

593
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: that the US government itself released, which is freely available online,

594
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 3: they found massive, massive traces of C one thirty seven

595
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 3: in manholes, like dirt and sediment around the sewers, liquid

596
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: waste in the piping, in the sinks, and all kinds

597
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 3: of stuff. It's riddled with it. Oh yeah, so much

598
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 3: so that past a certain threshold mistake or incompetence could

599
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: not fully explain the results at which the Navy originally arrived.

600
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 3: But it wasn't the Davy. Okay, fine, we gotta say

601
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: that it wasn't the US Navy. So everybody stopped writing

602
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 3: the death threats. It was this. The original remediation or

603
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 3: cleanup efforts were made by a contractor named Tetra Tech,

604
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: and in the findings of these other government agencies, non Navy,

605
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: it seemed that they were again strongly implying, let's say

606
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: that the Tetra Tech did not conduct proper due diligence

607
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: and spoiler, we'll get to it later, but the courts

608
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 3: ultimately agreed Tetra did have a herculean effort. They had

609
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: to scan and analyze twenty thousand square meters of building

610
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: surface areas just in Parcel G again, and they had

611
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: to take a little under seven thousand different soil samples

612
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 3: from specific parts of the ground. And when the Navy

613
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 3: released their new plan in reaction to the complaints of

614
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 3: the EPA and all these other government agencies, it was

615
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 3: a tacit acknowledgment of those complaints, and they said, look,

616
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 3: this time around, we're gonna have what do they call it,

617
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: They say, We're gonna have multiple layers of the Navy

618
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 3: and multiple other regulatory agencies and multiple third party contractors

619
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 3: who will this time for real, thease for sureseys monitor

620
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: daily site operations and they conclude again this state their

621
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: statement in short form as well as free online. They

622
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 3: conclude with the following sentence, which doesn't promise anything.

623
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: The Navy remains confident in the design of its cleanup

624
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: program and is committed to the safe cleanup and transfer

625
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: of Hunter's Point to the City of San Francisco.

626
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: Oh oh, oh good. That's good. Then that's all right.

627
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: But it's so messed up because basically they're just saying, hey, man,

628
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: we think we're good to go and we're about it.

629
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: So y'all are fine, don't worry, it's cool. Yeah, that's literally.

630
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: Good about this one. You know what I mean? Why

631
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: are you living in the past? Dog? Hold my beer?

632
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: Let's do this shit.

633
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: So here's the thing. As you can tell, maybe perhaps Matt,

634
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: you and I are coming off a bit uncharacteristically cynical

635
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: or pessimistic characteristically maybe a bit maybe, Okay, Yeah. The

636
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 3: thing is people on the ground in the city of

637
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: San Francisco and in the Bay Area they're having a

638
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 3: little bit of trouble believe in this. Uh, there's a

639
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 3: big sense on the ground, a let's call it a

640
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 3: more than eighty six percentile sense that the real motivating force.

641
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: Here isn't so much keeping an historically marginalized community safe

642
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: as it is an operation to make things look good

643
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 3: on paper, just long enough to transfer this stuff to

644
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: the City of San Francisco, to have that transfer go

645
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: through and then put and then you know, tie that

646
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 3: albatross around the neck of another organization, like like a

647
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: disreputable used car salesman. M.

648
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's not me. It's the carburetor. The carbureator

649
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: manufacturer messed up. Not not me. I sold you a

650
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: perfectly working car, my friend.

651
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 3: I get it, but you drove off the lot three

652
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: minutes ago. Hm.

653
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: No, I've got an idea, Ben, before we before we

654
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: go further. Yeah, here's the idea. Anytime there's a military

655
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: branch related superfund site, or that site is a superfund

656
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: site because of military activity, the five highest ranking office

657
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: currently standing in whatever branch have to move with their

658
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: families to that super fun site that has been approved

659
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 2: and lived there for one calendar year, with their families

660
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: drinking the water, playing in the playground, going to the school.

661
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: And then only then can we say okay, it's good

662
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: to go. Now everybody else move on in love it.

663
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 3: You know what some people will say it's not perfect.

664
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 3: That's fine, it's better than what's happening now, right, it is.

665
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: It is legitimately a better solution than what seems to

666
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: have happened in the past few decades. And look, multiple

667
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 3: journalists are contacting the US Navy and they're contacting any

668
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 3: aspect of Uncle Sam that they can to get information

669
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: on this, and the US Navy would not answer questions

670
00:44:53,640 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: or specifically respond to what critics said about those negative

671
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: like the sub zero strontium findings strontium ninety, but officials

672
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: have set more than once that there is no risk

673
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 3: to public health from what has been detected to date.

674
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: The problem is that's cherry picking your data, right, that's

675
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 3: cherry picking your sources, which is a very very dangerous game.

676
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 3: You know, we said that they've contracted out to this

677
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: private entity, Tetra Tech out of Pasadena, and this is

678
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 3: not Tetra's first rodeo. Tetra has been awarded multiple government

679
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 3: contracts over the years to engage in the same sorts

680
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: of projects. And in twenty eighteen they had to scapegoat

681
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: some people. Twenty eighteen, two of their employees got in trouble.

682
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, for falsifying records or fun, Yeah, for falsifying data

683
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 2: at a problem site like this. There's two people you

684
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: can find writing about this online if you search their names,

685
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: if you search Tetra Tech twenty eighteen. Stephen rolf st

686
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 2: E p h E n r O l f E

687
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: and Justin Hubbard j U s t I n h

688
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: U B b A r D. These are guys who

689
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: supervised a team who are who are supposed to be

690
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: doing remediation, so cleaning up, taking care of specifically radioactive materials,

691
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: so radiation stuff at a super fun site. Was it

692
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 2: at this site, Ben, or at a different site?

693
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: It was this site?

694
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: It was it really was Hunter's point.

695
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 3: They were sentenced to eight months in prison for falsifying

696
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 3: records about Hunter's point.

697
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 2: Geez.

698
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. Which is why for people who now, I mean

699
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 3: be very honest with you and Matt, I think it's

700
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 3: safe for us to speak as a unit here. If

701
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: you belie do you have a cover up as a

702
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 3: foot and I think we both do, then this would

703
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: be considered a smoking gun. What they did. What they

704
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 3: did is they it's like somebody trying to lie on

705
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: a on a piss test.

706
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: For that's that's exactly what it is.

707
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 3: Well, Okay, Matt, how is how is it like that?

708
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: I know I just made us sound like the most

709
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: sleaze bag dudes ever.

710
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I've never We've never.

711
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 3: Lied on a piss test.

712
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 2: I don't think No, I genuinely haven't. But I've only

713
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: taken a few of those types of tests, and I

714
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: don't do any drugs anyway. I'm such a lame dude.

715
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 2: But if you were going to lie on one of those,

716
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: what you would do is instead of giving over the

717
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 2: sample of your contaminated urine because it's got so much

718
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: THC in it, uh, you would instead bring in a

719
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: clean piece sample and do a little switch arou So

720
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: the authority has only got the clean ppe instead of

721
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: your tainted pep.

722
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 3: And according to the Northern District of California, that's what

723
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: these folks did at Tetra. And we were saying that

724
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: both admitted the is on record, both admitted to switching

725
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 3: out clean soil samples with the soil they were supposed

726
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: to have been testing, all with the intent of faking

727
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 3: the results of the cleanup. So if again, if you

728
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 3: believe like we do, that factions of Uncle Sam are

729
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: covering up the contamination here with very real and potentially

730
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 3: fatal consequences. Then this is a smoking gun. These people

731
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: went to jail for doing the thing that the US

732
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: Navy is denying ever happened. And if you look at

733
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 3: NGOs that are close to the ground on this, like

734
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: Jeff Rush is an attorney for public employees for environmental responsibility,

735
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 3: people have been silent on the issue. The authorities who

736
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 3: are supposed to be doing their on this just have it.

737
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 3: The Navy's OIG Office of Inspector General has refused to investigate,

738
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 3: and Rush is bringing the fire too. He says, quote,

739
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: it's like the Navy doesn't care what they say, and

740
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 3: we thought it was egregious enough that the Inspector General

741
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: should look at it. Without any external examination, Senior Navy

742
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: officials can lie to local officials and the public with impunity,

743
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 3: knowing there will be no negative career consequences.

744
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: That's messed up, no personal consequences to you the individual,

745
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: and you can just say whatever you want.

746
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 3: It might be good, It might be good for your

747
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 3: career actually because you show that you held the line.

748
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 2: Uh yep, that's exactly what it is. It's really bad,

749
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 2: but let's just hammer down on that point one more time.

750
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 2: The Inspector General, who should be looking at this, who's

751
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: a part of the Navy, is refusing to look at it.

752
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 2: At least that is some of the latest reporting that

753
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: Ben and I have seen as of the current situation

754
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: right now. And often the Navy hasn't responded to some

755
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: of the local reporting out of San Francisco in the

756
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 2: area when they're talking about some of these things in

757
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: the ongoing situations, the Navy doesn't send any kind official

758
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: response often, not always, but not often, and it certainly

759
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: seems as though that Inspector General should should be doing something.

760
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: And also, you know, to be fair, I know not

761
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 3: everybody loves it when we say this, but to be fair,

762
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: the Navy is a huge organization, okay. And this is

763
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: not by any means saying there are a bunch of

764
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: people who are villains in the Navy. We got a

765
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 3: lot of veterans, we got a lot of active Navy

766
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 3: Navy folks work listening to the show, and you know

767
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 3: exactly what we're talking about when we're talking about the

768
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 3: banality of evil systems. When when the buck continually passes,

769
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: it becomes incredibly easy and therefore incredibly dangerous to say, hey,

770
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 3: it's not me, this is just how things are done,

771
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And that doesn't help the

772
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: people on the ground. It never has throughout the span

773
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 3: of human history. Pointing to a system instead of taking

774
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 3: accountability has never helped the victims of a system. And

775
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 3: that's simply true.

776
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 2: You're right, Well, let's talk about another system, the judicial system,

777
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: because oh yeah, something that's guming up the works here

778
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: even more than the Strontium ninety are the legal cases

779
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 2: sorry had to try. And it's just like it's tough

780
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 2: because there are these political goals to get this land

781
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: ready to make all that money you're talking about, and

782
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: it seems like everybody is is pushing towards those goals

783
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: rather than the safety of the people, because I don't know,

784
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: that's just Is that just a Is that just America?

785
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: Is that what it is? They're pushing for the economics

786
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 2: versus safety and health of humans that are the economic

787
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: batteries for that system. I mean.

788
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 3: Also, there's the greater good argument. You know, nobody has

789
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: ever accused humanity of being especially original, like the the

790
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 3: idea being that San Francisco does need more housing. Yes,

791
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 3: that's true, and and and it is geographically bound by

792
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 3: the water, right, So what are you gonna do? Are

793
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: you gonna build out massive fake islands like certain Middle

794
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 3: Eastern countries? Are you going to create barges and ship

795
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: all the unhoused people off to live on a brig

796
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 3: the way the United Kingdom just did recently. That's a

797
00:52:58,960 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 3: true story.

798
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: We could south trying to see it, and like you said,

799
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 2: like and kind of what's happening in Dubai. Let's just

800
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: build some islands, dude, Let's go dud r.

801
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 3: Let's build some islands. Dog, Let's build some islands. Man,

802
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: No strong am ninety this time though?

803
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: For real now, But you know what you have to

804
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: do with those islands if you're going south trying to

805
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: see what's you gotta put naval bases on them? Tight.

806
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 3: I think we just got greenlit on the budget called

807
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 3: JAYSUK anyway, So Jaysk's not in charge of that part.

808
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 3: So that's that's the thing. Can't comment when there's ongoing litigation, Yeah,

809
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 3: makes sense, you know what I mean? Almost every government

810
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 3: official understands that. Again, when there is an ongoing court case,

811
00:53:53,280 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: all most every present or former government official knows is

812
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 3: should keep your mouth shut and let it play out

813
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 3: in the courts seriously, like almost every single one most

814
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: of the presidents. But research by multiple organizations appears to

815
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: support some serious problems here, Like court cases. Yeah, they

816
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 3: can halt investigations. Arguably they should. Again, we're not being hateful.

817
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 3: The Navy does have a leg to stand on when

818
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 3: they say that, and there is precedent for that. But

819
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 3: court cases do not halt biological consequences of exposure to evil,

820
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: evil stuff. And when you look at claims about cancer

821
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: clusters infant mortality rates, what you find is, oh God,

822
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 3: I want to shut up. I know we're going on.

823
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 3: I want to shout out a specific thing that you

824
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 3: and I both read. San Francisco Gate did an excellent

825
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 3: investigation in two thousand and four titled too Young to Die.

826
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 3: It's a multipart investigation, too Young to Die, Part one,

827
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 3: Life's Toll. Now that headline may sound hyperbolic, but we

828
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 3: promise you that if you read the article, it is

829
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 3: not the rates of infant mortality in the Bayview Hunter's

830
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 3: Point area or twice as high as the rest of

831
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: the city of San Francisco. The entire thing, and they's

832
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 3: some of the highest in the entire state of California,

833
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 3: a hugely populated state. That's a tough competition. And they

834
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 3: also corrected for various historical intervening variables in the nine

835
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 3: four one two four zip code. There is literally no

836
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 3: other way to explain the prevalence of these health problems

837
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 3: without acknowledging the cover up of again radium, caesium, and strontium.

838
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: Or at least a problem that nobody is admitting. It

839
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 2: is as bad as it is. Right, even if people

840
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 2: aren't covering it up, not one person is covering it up.

841
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 2: It's still not acknowledging how bad it is.

842
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now, as we said, this is an ongoing story.

843
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 3: We do believe it's a genuine conspiracy. The land is

844
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 3: slated to be turned over to the city in twenty

845
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 3: twenty four, no longer the Navy's problem. And as of

846
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 3: last year, some settlements got decided in court. There was

847
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 3: a class action lawsuit against two development and entities, Lenner

848
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: Incorporated and Five Point Holdings. They weren't conducting the test again,

849
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 3: that's Tetra that was doing the testing. But these two entities,

850
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 3: Lennar and five point were being held liable for six

851
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 3: point three millions dollars worth of damages because they sold

852
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: people homes and lied about contamination or they themselves were misled.

853
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,720
Speaker 3: So negligence, malevolence your call.

854
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: And you can you can see statements from a guy

855
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 2: named Joe Kotchet who's an attorney for the homeowners who

856
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: were represented in that case, and the way he puts it,

857
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 2: its environmental racism. Even if it's not that, it is

858
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: terrible practices right to sell somebody a home that you

859
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 2: know is contaminated.

860
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, what would you you know? What I mean?

861
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: I guess.

862
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: I guess the dollar moves, you know, and the money

863
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 3: moves this conspiracy. Again, it's no secret San Francisco needs

864
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 3: land and needs places for people to live. And I

865
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 3: found it interesting too, I know you saw this. As

866
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 3: of twenty nineteen, San Francisco Police Department joined up on this, well,

867
00:57:54,920 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 3: not maybe not officially, but four hundred different former SFPD

868
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 3: officers filed their own class action lawsuit and they said

869
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 3: from working there and living there and working there over

870
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 3: the years, the officers and their families had contracted asthma,

871
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: blood disorders, lung cancer, and they even alleged that the

872
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: contamination of Hunter's Point led to the deaths of two officers,

873
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: or at least greatly contributed to it. In short, if

874
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 3: you look at any source other than the US Navy,

875
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 3: there was a cover up. And the bill is coming due,

876
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: and at this point we have to ask, folks, what

877
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 3: do you think. I mean again, you know, we do

878
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 3: always endeavor to be objective on this show, but Matt,

879
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 3: as soon as you brought the story up, I know

880
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 3: we both started digging, and there's still so much more

881
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 3: out there. We are giving you the broad strokes. Folks,

882
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 3: it appears that there is some sort of cover up.

883
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 3: The cases slowly wending their way through the court system,

884
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 3: but that public health clock is ticking and again it

885
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 3: does not stop because there is ongoing litigation radiation and cancer.

886
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 3: They don't care about the schedule of the courts, and

887
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 3: it appears that the powers that be don't particularly care either.

888
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 3: They really want these developments to go through. They really

889
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: want that strip mall. They want those live laugh love

890
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: mixed use developments.

891
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that they can charge way too much money for.

892
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: I would just say everybody should go to sfbayview dot

893
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: com and do some reading there do some research. That's

894
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: a great place to get started. Really, do check out

895
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: the NBC Bay Area coverage. They've been putting out some

896
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 2: pretty digestible video content on this for several years now.

897
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: There's a lot that you can read on this if

898
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: you want more information. But the big question Ben that

899
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: you're alluding to you there is like what do you

900
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 2: do with a place like this? Do you rope it

901
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 2: off and treat it like Chernobyl for one hundred years,

902
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: two hundred years and then check on it again, be

903
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: like maybe it's a little better now, or what do

904
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 2: we do if we need to use land that has

905
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 2: been contaminated?

906
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, that's going to be an increasingly pressing in question, Matt.

907
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 3: That's alluding to some of our off air conversations. Yeah,

908
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: it is the best question to end on here, folks,

909
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 3: and we want to hear from you. What do you think?

910
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 3: How would you answer the dilemma that Matt has posed here?

911
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: And also do you have stories about similar cover ups

912
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 3: in your neck of the Global Woods. We would love

913
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 3: to hear from you. You are, again the best part

914
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 3: of this show. We're grateful for your time. You can

915
01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: find us online Instagram, Facebook, TikTok farmers only, all the

916
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 3: good ones, all the top tier ones, Twitter or x

917
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 3: as well. You can find us there and if you

918
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 3: don't sip the social meds, then there's good news. There's

919
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 3: several other ways you can contact us.

920
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: Oh yes, why not call one eight three three st

921
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 2: d WYTK. That's our phone number. It's a voicemail system.

922
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 2: You get three minutes when you call in. Give yourself

923
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: a cool nickname and let us know if we can

924
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 2: use your message, your voice, your name, all that good

925
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: stuff on air. If you don't want to use your

926
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 2: voice and your phone, why not instead send us a

927
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

928
01:01:40,200 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

929
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

930
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

931
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows