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Speaker 1: You start to realize we just treat friends like these

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Speaker 1: disposable things, which I find so upsetting. Is to have

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Speaker 1: a successful marriage, to have successful work, to be able

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Speaker 1: to manage stress in our lives. Friends, they're the ultimate biohack.

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Speaker 1: They fix depression, they fix anxiety, they fix an ability

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Speaker 1: to cope with stress. Multiple times best selling off They're.

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Speaker 2: One of the greatest thinkers of our generation, one of

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Speaker 2: the most impactful voices in the world of leadership. Your

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Speaker 2: best friend thinks the person you're dating is not right

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes not all our partnerships are understod by our friends.

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Speaker 1: Very often they don't tell you until you after you've

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Speaker 1: broken up.

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Speaker 2: How should introvets think about friendships differently to extroverts?

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Speaker 1: The rules are the same. Every friendship should be additive.

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Speaker 1: They should be worth the time and the energy that

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Speaker 1: we invest.

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Speaker 2: What do we do when we feel the people around

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Speaker 2: us don't believe in us?

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Speaker 1: Anybody who wants to have an impact in the lives

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Speaker 1: of others has to get used to the idea that

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Speaker 1: not everybody's going to like you and number one health

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Speaker 1: and Well.

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Speaker 2: In his podcast Jay set Jay Shetty, Hi, everyone, welcome

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Speaker 2: back to on Purpose. I'm so grateful that you decided

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Speaker 2: to tune in today. Today's guest is someone that I've

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Speaker 2: been excited to have on the podcast for a long

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Speaker 2: long time. I interviewed him in a previous life when

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Speaker 2: I was at the Huffington Post for one of my

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Speaker 2: first ever followed the Readers series, and I couldn't wait

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Speaker 2: to have him on for a story that last yare shortly.

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking about the one and only Simon Sinek, best

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Speaker 2: selling author, speaker, founder of the Optimism Company, known for

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Speaker 2: his groundbreaking work on leadership and purpose. Simon's Ted Talk

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Speaker 2: on the concept of Why has been viewed over sixty

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Speaker 2: million times, and Simon's books, including Start with Why Leaders

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Speaker 2: Eat Last and The Infinite Game have shaped how leaders

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Speaker 2: inspire action and build impactful organizations. Simon also hosts his

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Speaker 2: own amazing podcast called A Bit of Optimism where I

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Speaker 2: Got to be a guest, where he talks to people

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Speaker 2: who inspire him about life, love, and leadership. Please welcome

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Speaker 2: to On Purpose, Simon Sink Simon. I'm so happy to

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Speaker 2: have you here.

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Speaker 1: Jay. It's been a long time coming.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So I have to tell you so

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Speaker 2: when I got to New York and I got given

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Speaker 2: my own show. It was on Facebook Live, and you

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Speaker 2: were top of my list, and you were launching a

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Speaker 2: new book that week, and I just I was so

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Speaker 2: excited to tell you the story, because the story I

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Speaker 2: told you in the hallways of the huff Post where

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Speaker 2: that when I was a monk, one of our monk

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Speaker 2: teachers was giving out Start with Why as a gift

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Speaker 2: to the monks, and he said to all the monks,

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Speaker 2: he was like, you have to read this book. This

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Speaker 2: is important reading. And the jory of the monks were like, well,

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Speaker 2: it's not scripture, so who cares? Like it was like

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Speaker 2: this kind of not the best monk attitude if I

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Speaker 2: read it, very very unmonkey, But that happens too. I

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Speaker 2: read it and it was life changing, and it was

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Speaker 2: life changing, not because I was starting a business or

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Speaker 2: because I was a leader. It was actually life changing

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Speaker 2: from a life perspective. So I applied Start with Why

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Speaker 2: to my life and that was remarkable for me. So

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Speaker 2: I wanted to share that story.

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Speaker 1: Really had no idea so badly then, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: how long ago was that? I mean that was a

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Speaker 1: very long time.

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Speaker 2: Ago, nine years ago? Ah yew six.

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Speaker 1: I remember exactly where it was too. I remember that building,

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Speaker 1: that big white building down and where it's like astor

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Speaker 1: place or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to ask you because I was thinking

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Speaker 2: about that experience in that moment, and by the way,

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Speaker 2: a lot of your work has felt that way to me.

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to ask you. If someone read all

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Speaker 2: your books, they listened to all your podcast episode, they

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Speaker 2: watched all your YouTube videos, what type of life would

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Speaker 2: they be leading if they listened, watched, learned, and applied.

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Speaker 1: Well, the key is there is applied. My work fundamentally

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Speaker 1: is about human beings. It's about who we are as

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Speaker 1: human beings. It's how we relate to other human beings

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Speaker 1: and how we connect with other human beings. It's fundamentally

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Speaker 1: about relationships. That's what the work is about, which is

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons I think it resonates and continues

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Speaker 1: to resonate over time, and why I'm not really threatened

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Speaker 1: by AI or anything like that, because it really is

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Speaker 1: about this. It's the ability to make eye contact with

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Speaker 1: somebody and how to connect with somebody. And so I

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Speaker 1: hope that if somebody is a student of my work,

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Speaker 1: they're on the same journey that I'm on, because all

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Speaker 1: my work is semi autobiographical. You know, the life they're

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Speaker 1: going to be living is a life filled with support

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Speaker 1: and love, where they'll still have ups and downs, and

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Speaker 1: they'll still have their struggles, but that they will feel

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Speaker 1: equipped to take on those struggles with greater confidence and

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Speaker 1: greater calm and have that same skill set to do

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Speaker 1: for their friends, that they can be a rock for

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Speaker 1: their friends who are going through difficult things as well,

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Speaker 1: even if they don't necessarily know the solutions.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about. Your work's obviously been about human relationships.

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Speaker 2: What has surprised you most about human behavior? In what

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Speaker 2: you've looked at when it comes to friendships, relationships, romantic.

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Speaker 1: It's all I mean, look, you know this, it's all

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Speaker 1: remarkably consistent. You know that the problems we have at

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Speaker 1: work are the same problems we have at home, or

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Speaker 1: the same problem we have with our friends. It's all

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Speaker 1: the same thing. You know. I can give advice to

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Speaker 1: somebody who's a leader in an office or a mid

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Speaker 1: level middle manager, you know, or entry level, and I

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Speaker 1: can give them advice, like if you get a response

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Speaker 1: that's above a five, it's about something else. Okay, And

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Speaker 1: if I'm giving somebody relationship advice, I can say, if

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Speaker 1: you get a response that that's above a five, it's

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Speaker 1: about something else. You know, Like it's always the same

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Speaker 1: thing because fundamentally, it's just human beings trying to get

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Speaker 1: along with human beings. Now, obviously the contexts are different,

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Speaker 1: the goals are different, but fundamentally the breakdowns and communications,

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Speaker 1: the repair that needs to be done, it's all very

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Speaker 1: similar stuff. It's listening, it's how to give and receive feedback.

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Speaker 1: It's how to have an effective confrontation, it's how to

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Speaker 1: hold space. It's all the same. And it's always funny

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Speaker 1: to me because you know, I'll work with every industry.

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Speaker 1: I've worked with every single industry, and they all think

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Speaker 1: they're problems are unique and all their problems are the same.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I learned that when I went on my world

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Speaker 2: tour two years ago. We did nearly forty cities across

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Speaker 2: the world, and everyone was like, oh, what was this place?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: What was that place?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Of course there were local quirks. They were like Australia

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Speaker 2: had more banter, Like everyone quipped back if you made

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Speaker 2: a joke, and everyone in Boston was very handsy, like

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Speaker 2: everyone would like grab me when I walked in the

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Speaker 2: crowd and be like, pick my girlfriend, take me up.

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Speaker 2: You know. It was very like active. But overall we

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Speaker 2: laughed at the same things. We cry at the same things.

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Speaker 2: We we get excited about the same things. We ooh

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Speaker 2: at the same things, like there's this and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to tell people that. I was like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: I just went across the world, and like you're saying,

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Speaker 2: you went to every industry and you saw that. Why

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Speaker 2: is it? Then? Belonging an identity feels like it needs

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Speaker 2: to be found in that which is different. Right, we

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Speaker 2: find a different football club that gives us a sense

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Speaker 2: of identity, we find I'm in a swim club or

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Speaker 2: a run. I like nonfiction books. I like fiction books,

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Speaker 2: Like what is then the dissecting of that for finding identity,

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Speaker 2: belonging community. Where does that kind of come in?

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Speaker 1: As an aside, It's really funny because when I do

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Speaker 1: travel around the world, I don't change any of my stories.

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Speaker 1: I don't change any make cases. They alsoy, please don't

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Speaker 1: use American examples, and I was like that's fine, and sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: and they again they all understand the lessons. They all

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Speaker 1: laugh at the same places, their responses are different. Like

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Speaker 1: the English they sit their stone faced and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: am I bombing here? And at the end they come

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Speaker 1: up to me like that was amazing. It was like

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Speaker 1: you give me a little love. When I'm on the

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Speaker 1: stage where the Americans is, you know, it's all it's

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Speaker 1: all right there. What you see is what you get.

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Speaker 1: But we can't belong to everything because then there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as belonging. And it's not sufficient to say, well,

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Speaker 1: we're all human beings. I mean, you know, we're tribal

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Speaker 1: animals and our sense of safety comes from feeling safe

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Speaker 1: in the tribe. And so the question is, well, what

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Speaker 1: are the definitions of the tribe? And it can come

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Speaker 1: in many different ways, and we can be members of

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Speaker 1: multiple tribes simultaneously. You mentioned some of them. You know,

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Speaker 1: I like this football club. I'm a member of this church,

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Speaker 1: this company, this group of friends. I have this common interest,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a run club or comic con

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And we look, we look for

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Speaker 1: those common things so that we feel psychologically safe. And

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Speaker 1: the quickest way to feel psychologically safe is somebody who

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Speaker 1: looks like me, worships like me, acts like me, has

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Speaker 1: the same hobbies as me. Those are those are superficial

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Speaker 1: and those are easy, and the real close memberships come

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Speaker 1: when we can share values. But it makes perfect sense

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Speaker 1: why we would want to make things smaller and smaller,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's remember the Doctor SEUs book,

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Speaker 1: the Sneeches. It's like, we want, we will want to

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Speaker 1: belong and the easiest way, the best way to belong

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Speaker 1: is if we're different from from them. You know, then

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Speaker 1: I'm belonging because I'm different to you, but I'm like them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that idea of you can only get

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Speaker 2: groups to organize if there's a common enemy. It's like,

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Speaker 2: if we know what we're against, then we know what

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Speaker 2: we're for, and it kind of becomes easier to organize. Humans.

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Speaker 1: It's easier to know what you're for when you can

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Speaker 1: see what you're against, because knowing what you're forward tends

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Speaker 1: to be pretty ethereal. What you're against tends to be

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Speaker 1: pretty tangible. And so we're very visually driven animals, so

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to default to that which we can

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Speaker 1: see countermeasure, and so that's why we tend to be

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Speaker 1: you know, love metrics and things like that. We think

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Speaker 1: about the end result, the metrics, the money, before we

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Speaker 1: think about well taking care of the people, the culture

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Speaker 1: of the leadership. Because one is easy to measure and

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Speaker 1: one is hard to measure, right, not that it doesn't exist,

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Speaker 1: just hard to measure. And so the same thing. I

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Speaker 1: can more easily have a sense of what I stand

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Speaker 1: for if I can see what I am against. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and the nuance there is. Yes, common enemies are valuable,

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Speaker 1: But when it becomes what I would call more healthy,

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Speaker 1: is I know what I believe, I know what I

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Speaker 1: stand for, and I can see what's standing in the way.

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Speaker 1: I'm not particularly anti this group. What I'm for is

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Speaker 1: on the other side of it wall, and so I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to hurt you or harm you, but

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Speaker 1: I need to find a way to get through this,

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Speaker 1: to get to what's on the other side of the wall.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you don't have a sense of purpose, if

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Speaker 1: there is no cause, then I don't know what I

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Speaker 1: stand for. I just have the wall, and it's easily

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Speaker 1: to rail against the wall. But the problem is what

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Speaker 1: happens if you get through it. And we've seen this

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Speaker 1: time and time again, which is very easy to rally

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Speaker 1: against something and then you destroy it or you win

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and then you're like, we didn't

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Speaker 1: think we'd get here where. When you're purpose driven, you

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Speaker 1: always know what's in the distant future, even though there

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Speaker 1: are obstacles along the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't even think it's the language that we

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Speaker 2: use anymore in society, But there's this feeling around everyone.

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Speaker 2: We know that there's a loneliness epidemic. People are more disconnected.

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Speaker 2: I think I read a statistic that said, like sixty

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Speaker 2: five percent of people feel disconnected from others and the

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Speaker 2: world definitely purpose is lacking, or vision is lacking or clarity.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because even though and I don't think

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Speaker 2: we necessarily talk about it in that way to your friend,

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Speaker 2: Like you don't wake up and call your friend and go,

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Speaker 2: I have no purpose today, Like I don't think people

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Speaker 2: really do that on a daily basis. I think people

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Speaker 2: wake up feeling brain fog and exhausted and overworked and

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Speaker 2: burnt out, Like that's the language that we use, but

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Speaker 2: they're connected, yeah, right, Like that's kind of the space

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Speaker 2: in which you sit, which is recognizing that well, we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with all of these things, but they're actually coming

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Speaker 2: from a lack of all of this.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really right. And what we think is

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Speaker 1: the cause of things are very often symptoms, or if

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Speaker 1: we do recognize them as symptoms, we falsely diagnose what

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Speaker 1: the cause may be. So let's take one that you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: which is burnout. Right, I'm feeling burnt out. It must

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Speaker 1: be because of my job, right, it must be because

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Speaker 1: of my boss. It must be because of my career. Right,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense. It's where I feel it, right, But

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Speaker 1: perhaps it's something else. Perhaps it's a sense of loneliness.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Heill, she came on the podcast and explained

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Speaker 1: this to me. It was amazing, which is she was

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Speaker 1: in the military and she's got her troops and there

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Speaker 1: was an issue with burnout and people were exhausted, they

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Speaker 1: were struggling, and they all said, I'm burnt out, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do. And there's nothing they

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Speaker 1: could do because the tempo of the operations, the ups tempos,

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Speaker 1: was intense and it's not slowing down. So what's a

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Speaker 1: leader supposed to do when the team says, I'm burnt

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Speaker 1: out and I can't keep up right. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure what her motivation was. I have to go

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Speaker 1: back and listen, but I think maybe it's because the

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Speaker 1: way she felt. She simply asked the room, how many

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Speaker 1: of you are feeling lonely? And the number of hands

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Speaker 1: that went up was astonishing, and she realized it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the ups tempo, it was the sense of loneliness that

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Speaker 1: was giving the feeling of burnout and the feeling of overwhelm.

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Speaker 1: And so the way she dealt with people's burnout was

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Speaker 1: not by giving them vacations or giving them days off.

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Speaker 1: What she did was she did the hard work of

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Speaker 1: helping them not feel alone, checking in with them as

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Speaker 1: human beings. And I think people's burnout started to subside

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Speaker 1: when somebody was doing the hard work of making sure

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Speaker 1: they knew that they were they weren't alone in this world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love that example because it completely shifts

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Speaker 2: your perspective because you're over here trying to solve this problem,

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Speaker 2: and then you realize, oh, it's actually over here. There's

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Speaker 2: almost more places to belong, but there's less bigger places

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Speaker 2: to belong. So in the past, like you said, you'd

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Speaker 2: have church or your place of worship. The company was

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Speaker 2: a big part of your identity, and then family was big,

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Speaker 2: and now families are spread over. Even myself, like my

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Speaker 2: wife and I don't live anywhere near our family. You

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Speaker 2: don't live that close to your family, So that's kind

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Speaker 2: of broken over time. Places of faith some people have them,

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Speaker 2: but they're not as popular.

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Speaker 1: Church membership is down yet, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, So that's there as well. And then on top

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Speaker 2: of that you have the breakdown in company in terms

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Speaker 2: of people. Not necessarily people either loved where they work

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Speaker 2: or they absolutely and it's a chore. So you're losing

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Speaker 2: these very big places of belonging or at least if

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Speaker 2: you see the words on a wall, you don't believe

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Speaker 2: that they're lived. And so there's a disconnect. Should we

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Speaker 2: be relying on our friends now? Is that where we

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Speaker 2: have to go? Or where do you go when you

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Speaker 2: see these big symbols of belonging kind of disconnected?

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Speaker 1: So, I mean you're touching on something which if you

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Speaker 1: go back to like the nineteen fifties, right, which is

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Speaker 1: we went to church for our sense of values. Work

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Speaker 1: was just a place to make a living. They took

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Speaker 1: care of us, and we took care of them. When

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Speaker 1: we were work decades at one company that was considered normal.

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Speaker 1: You know, you got your sense of community from the

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Speaker 1: bowling league, and you knew your neighbors and sometimes you

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Speaker 1: even had barbecues with your neighbors on the weekends. That was.

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Speaker 1: And so there were these There was a sense of community,

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Speaker 1: and there were many communities to which we were able

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Speaker 1: to partake, with with whom we were able to partake.

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Speaker 1: And then things change. The world changes for various reasons.

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Speaker 1: The bowling clubs went away, church membership declined, don't really

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Speaker 1: know the neighbors anymore, and all of a sudden we

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Speaker 1: started putting pressure on work to fill all the voids.

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Speaker 1: And now I want my work to give me a

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Speaker 1: sense of values and purpose, and I want work to

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Speaker 1: provide my social life, and I want work to provide

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Speaker 1: my sense of community, my sense of belonging. And now

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Speaker 1: let's throw politics in. I want my work to match

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Speaker 1: my politics as well. And it's not a good thing

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Speaker 1: or a bad thing. It just as it is. And

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Speaker 1: most companies are ill equipped to even know what to

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Speaker 1: do there. You can't push back because it's the world

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Speaker 1: we live in. And so companies now actually do have

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Speaker 1: to make some decisions where and how they want to play.

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Speaker 1: And we do have to offer some sense of belonging

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Speaker 1: community instead of values, because that's where else are people

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Speaker 1: going to get it? And when you ask about friends,

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Speaker 1: you know, I find friendship and the concept of friendship

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Speaker 1: super fascinating. You know, if you ask most people are

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Speaker 1: you a good friend? Most people say I'm a good friend.

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Speaker 1: And if you peel the onion just one layer, you

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Speaker 1: find out that most of us are not great friends.

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Speaker 1: Right would you cancel on a friend for a meeting?

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Speaker 1: Would you cancel on a meeting for a friend? Oh,

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Speaker 1: but my friend would understand. You know, we sort of

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Speaker 1: take our friends for granted that way. If your marriage

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Speaker 1: is struggling, what do you do? You're good for couples

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Speaker 1: counseling because you don't want to just throw the relationship away.

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Speaker 1: We've invested this amount. We're going to do the work first.

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Speaker 1: And if we can't do the work, then okay, but

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Speaker 1: we're going to do the work. Why aren't there friendship counselors?

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Speaker 1: Why is there no friendship therapy? I saw it happened

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Speaker 1: just two weeks ago. Two people who defined each other

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Speaker 1: as best friends. They talked every day something happened. They

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Speaker 1: both blame each other, but there was there was a fight.

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Speaker 1: They haven't talked since, and I've talked to them and

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Speaker 1: said what's going on. They're like, the friendship is over?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, isn't it worth What about

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Speaker 1: the friendship leading up to it? How can you just

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Speaker 1: walk away from it? Maybe I was wrong, maybe they

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Speaker 1: were never my friend, which of course is complete nonsense,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it was just so upsetting to me,

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Speaker 1: the fragility of the friendship and how we treat friendships

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Speaker 1: so differently, and the skills of good friendship are the

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Speaker 1: same skills. We've talked about it before. Relationships relationships are

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Speaker 1: the same skills as marriage or any kind of romantic relationship,

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Speaker 1: you know. Do your friends know how to hold space

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Speaker 1: for you when you're struggling? Do your friends know how

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Speaker 1: to listen to you when you just need somebody to listen,

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Speaker 1: not fix? And I mean, I'll tell you from personal experience.

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Speaker 1: I was accused by many of my friends that I

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Speaker 1: was a terrible listener. And I would say, you do

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Speaker 1: know what I do for a living, right, you do know, right'

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Speaker 1: I'm a great list a professional. I'm a great listener.

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Speaker 1: And then I took this listening class, and what I

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Speaker 1: learned was that I am a fantastic listener with people

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Speaker 1: I will never talk to again for the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life. But it came to my intimate relationships and

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Speaker 1: my close friends terrible, terrible, terrible, And just because I

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Speaker 1: had the skills, I wasn't applying them to the place

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Speaker 1: that was actually more important than anywhere else. The first

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Speaker 1: thing I did after I got out of this class,

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Speaker 1: I called all my close friends and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I just found out I'm a bad listener, and I

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Speaker 1: owe you an apology. They're like, yeah, what took you

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Speaker 1: so long? Right? But the point is is the skills

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Speaker 1: are there, and sometimes we actually are good at applying

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Speaker 1: them in different contexts and circumstances at work or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and we're junk at applying them to our friends. And

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Speaker 1: the irony is is for you to have a successful

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Speaker 1: romantic relationship or a successful marriage or personal relationship, you

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Speaker 1: need to have good friends around you because when you

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Speaker 1: have stress in that relationship, you've got to have a

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Speaker 1: safe space that you can go vent or talk it about,

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Speaker 1: talk about it, or get advice or get perspective. Somebody

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Speaker 1: will slap you around and be like, that's your fault.

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Speaker 1: Right when things go wrong at work, you're struggling with

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Speaker 1: a colleague, you're struggling with a project, you're struggling with

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Speaker 1: your boss, you're struggling with you know, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: you better have good friends who can give you perspective,

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Speaker 1: slap you around and tell you know that's on you.

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Speaker 1: But then where do we go when we're having friend issues?

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Speaker 1: You know, and you start to realize we just treat

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Speaker 1: friends like these disposable things, which I find so upsetting

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Speaker 1: because the joke is to have a successful marriage, to

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Speaker 1: have success at work, to be able to manage stress

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Speaker 1: in our lives. Friends, friends are They're the ultimate biohack.

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Speaker 1: They fix depression, they fix anxiety, they fix an ability

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Speaker 1: to cope with stress, even the obsession with longevity that's

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Speaker 1: going on right now. You know, people talk about blue zones,

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Speaker 1: and you know Dan Buner's work, and everybody talks about

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Speaker 1: their Mediterranean diet. Now they walk everywhere, and but there's

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Speaker 1: very little talked about how they have dinner with each

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Speaker 1: other every single night that they are convening with friends

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Speaker 1: all the time. You know, we don't talk about that.

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Speaker 2: I want to dig into that a little bit because

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Speaker 2: I feel similarly, and it's interesting. I observe two types

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Speaker 2: of people. One type of person was never that close

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Speaker 2: to their family and therefore friends became their family. And

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Speaker 2: then there's the other type of person that's so close

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Speaker 2: to their family that they rely less on their friends.

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Speaker 2: So when I look at my wife, she's really close

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Speaker 2: with their mom, and she's really close with their sister,

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Speaker 2: and they are her friends. They act as our friends

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Speaker 2: in all of the ways you mentioned. And when I

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Speaker 2: look at me, someone who was less close with my

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Speaker 2: family or my family unit, even though me and my

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Speaker 2: sister are good friends and my mum is too, my

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Speaker 2: friends became my family. So I'm very focused on developing

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Speaker 2: community beyond family because that's what I've always had to

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Speaker 2: rely on. And so it's interesting when you look at that,

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Speaker 2: because you're like, all right, well, is it that those

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Speaker 2: of us who have family don't invest in friendships as

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Speaker 2: much because we don't need them.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a good question. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: an either or. I think it's a both. And again, remember,

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Speaker 1: if you go back to how we evolved, you know

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Speaker 1: we're tribal animals. We lived in groups never bigger in

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty ish, you know, plus or minus.

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Speaker 1: And what worked was you had your family, of course,

431
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: but the community helped raise your kids. It's really funny

432
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: if you look at just you know, rich and poor, right,

433
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: those who have and those who don't. Like if you

434
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 1: go to sort of a poorer neighborhood, people sit on

435
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: the front porch and their kids play in the front,

436
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: and they raise each other's kids. And as soon as

437
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: you start having any kind of wealth, you move to

438
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: the back and put up you put up fences and

439
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: you have to raise your own kids. And you know,

440
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: the idea that the community looks at for the kids

441
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: is actually correct. Like that's how how we sort of

442
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: work together. So I don't think it's either or. I

443
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 1: think it's a both. I mean, I don't know if

444
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: you've ever did you ever have the chance to go

445
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: to Dharavi in Mumbai?

446
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: No?

447
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: No, no, So Daravi Darvey is the largest slum in Bombay

448
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: in Mumbai, And just to give you a sense of scale,

449
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: right Manhattan, it's thirteen miles long, two miles wide. It's

450
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: about twenty six square miles and the island of Manhattan.

451
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: The residents are about one point five million. One point

452
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: five million people live on the island of Manhattan. So

453
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: if you've ever visited Manhattan or seeing pictures of Manhattan,

454
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: you can get a sense of population density. Obviously the

455
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: population goes up during the day during work, but you

456
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 1: can get a sense of the density over twenty six

457
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: square miles. Okay, Daravi is one square mile and there's

458
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: about seven hundred and fifty to one million people that

459
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: live there. They're not one hundred percent suor over the

460
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: exact number, so you can just imagine the intensity and

461
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: the density, which is why when disease shows up, it

462
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: just it runs rampant, right because it's just so close

463
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: and you walk around Derrivey and it's it's not sanitary,

464
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 1: and there's like live electric wires hanging down and if

465
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: you touch one by accident, you're a gonner. And kids

466
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: are just running around by themselves or with their friends

467
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: because the community looks out for them. You know. It

468
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 1: is an amazing feeling of looking out for each other.

469
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: And when you talk about belonging, and because we do look,

470
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: we look for it. When when we look for things

471
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: to join and we push our kids to join things.

472
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: So they have these these friends, and it's easier for

473
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: kids because they're at school. Right. So kids go to school,

474
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: they're about the same age, they have the same similar stresses,

475
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: the same teachers, the same homework, same same same, same, same, same, same,

476
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: and so common experience is really the same stresses of

477
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: adolescents and growing up, and like they have very common experience.

478
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: It's very easy to connect as soon as you leave school.

479
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: Still pretty easy because your entry level with all the

480
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: other entry levels, all bumbling and fumbling trying to make

481
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: a career. And then all of a sudden it starts

482
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: to separate. Your friends started different ages and now you

483
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: don't have common experience, and I think friendship you Actually,

484
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: it's more difficult as we get older, not less difficult.

485
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's why I want to dig into it

486
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: because I can agree with you more, especially for people

487
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: who have moved. I remember the first time I interviewed

488
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: a brit on the podcast, and it was different. It

489
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 2: was this really different connected with them so much. That

490
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 2: makes sense, Yeah, but I hadn't. It didn't like register

491
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: until I did that, where I was like, wait a minute,

492
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: why do we have so much chemistry and I was like, oh,

493
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: wait a minute. Of course, we both talked about football,

494
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: both grew up in some part of London, like, had

495
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 2: similar types of friends. It makes sense, and it makes sense,

496
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 2: but it didn't register because I'd been interviewing Americans for

497
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: so long.

498
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: I'll give you a funny analogy, right, just just to

499
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: just to drive the kiss them, because beating a dead

500
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: horse is kind of my thing. So are you friends

501
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 1: with everybody in California and you live in California? Are

502
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: you friends with everybody in California? No? Of course not right,

503
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. But if you go to Michigan and you

504
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: meet somebody from California, you're like, hey, we're from and

505
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: you're like connected. Okay, Now you go on holiday. Let's

506
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: say you're in Paris. You're standing on the Paris Metro

507
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: and you hear an American accent and you, hey, where

508
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: you guys from. You're from Michigan, We're from California, and

509
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: you're like best friends. Right, Because when you don't feel

510
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: like you belong, you look for anything that gives you

511
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 1: some sense of safety. Somebody who understands a little bit

512
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: about how you grew up, a little bit of your perspective,

513
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: even though it's back at home, it's entirely different. And

514
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: the biggest joke is the level of trust that family

515
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: from Michigan will be like, oh, you've got to try

516
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: this restaurant, and you'll turn to your wife and be like, honey,

517
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: we've got to go to this restaurant because strangers who

518
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: don't live here told us it's really good. But if

519
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: a stranger from Paris, did you got to go to

520
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: this restaurant, you' be like, I don't even know who

521
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: you are. Why would I trust you recommendation?

522
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: You know.

523
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: And it's the sense that the tourists are looking out

524
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: each there even though they have no clue, you know.

525
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: And that's how powerful this thing is. That when we

526
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: get any inkling of somebody who quote unquote gets me,

527
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: our speed to which we will trust them is or

528
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: at least try to connect with them. It's so huge.

529
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: So the fact that you're living in America, you know,

530
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: stranger in a strange land. The first brit you're just

531
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: like humming. It makes perfect sense.

532
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

533
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: our sponsors and back to our episode. Do you believe

534
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 2: there's a way to feel that way with more people

535
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: if we're feeling disconnected or can it only happen when

536
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: it's correlated in the way?

537
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: Great question, So as we goes right back to what

538
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: we said before, which is we you know, the tangible

539
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: stuff is just easier because I can see it. Right,

540
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: So it makes sense why neighborhoods look the way they do,

541
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: you know, it makes sense, right, we want to live

542
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: and hang out with people who worship like us, look

543
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: like us, sound like us, live like us. Whatever. It is, right,

544
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: and that can be based on anything, but it's superficial,

545
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: which means the connections aren't necessarily there, and once you're

546
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, it kind of disappears anyway, Right, you

547
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: ask the question right at the beginning. You know, somebody

548
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: who sort of applied my work, what woul their life

549
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,239
Speaker 1: look like? Well, this is what happens when you learn

550
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: to start with why. Because when you learn to stop

551
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: thinking about your life in terms of what I do,

552
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: what I look like, what I sound like, what I

553
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, all of these superficial things, and you start

554
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: thinking of yourself in terms of who I am, why

555
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: I'm on this planet, what are my values? And more important,

556
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: you learn the language of how to express those things,

557
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: you will more efficiently and more quickly find people who

558
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: actually view the world and live the world like you.

559
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: So and this is you can do it in a

560
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: personal context, you can do in a business context. And

561
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: I'll give you a real life example. So when I

562
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: first learned my why, I didn't know how to tell

563
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: people about it, And so I stopped asking the question

564
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: what do you do? What do you do? I would

565
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: tell people what I believed? Right, what do you do?

566
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: Is really easy? You know, I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer,

567
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: I'm a consultant, whatever, Right, And you're sitting on a

568
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: plane and somebody says what do you do? And you go, oh,

569
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm a doctor. Unless they need a doctor, that nobody cares, right,

570
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: And so I started saying what I believed. And it

571
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: took a probably one hundred, one hundred and fifty tries

572
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: of me bumbling and fumbling different ways of saying it

573
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: so that people weren't look at me like I had

574
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: three heads, right, and eventually I had the perfect elevator pitch.

575
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: So I'd sit on a plane and you know this

576
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: is pre internet, you know, we actually talk to people,

577
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: and somebody would say, what do you do And I

578
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: would say, I teach leaders and organizations how to inspire people.

579
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: The people who believe what I believe would say, inspire cool,

580
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: how do you do that? We're talking about me for

581
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: the next tw and a half hours. We're connecting. We're

582
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: becoming friends, I mean instantaneously, right, We like, really get along.

583
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: The people who don't believe what I believe would say

584
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: what kind of companies. It was a it was a

585
00:27:53,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: filter instantaneously because I was presenting my beliefs and those relationships.

586
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: Some of them I made friends on planes, and some

587
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: of my friends today I believe it or and I

588
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: met them on random flights years ago. And it's one

589
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we connect with some professions more

590
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: than others.

591
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: Right.

592
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: So I tend to have really good relationships with folks

593
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: who serve in the military because I'm pretty open about

594
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: my sense of service that I believe true purpose is

595
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: the opportunity to serve those who serve others. They kind

596
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: of live their lives very similarly. So the minute we

597
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: show up or like, gotcha, you know, and so there's

598
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: at least a common thing I don't necessarily like them all.

599
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: They don't necessarily a like me, but there's a good

600
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: foundation to make make a real friendship. And so I

601
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: think the opportunity to understand one of one's own values

602
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: and beliefs and to say them often, you know. I mean,

603
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, when I blurb a book, for example, I'm

604
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: really sort of strict about it. Like if somebody asked

605
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: me to blurb their book, I always insist that the

606
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: way they list me is it's Simon Sinek optimist and

607
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, all the things

608
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: I've done after I tell you who I am, because

609
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: if you cut that list off after who I am,

610
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: I don't care what goes after it. And the number

611
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: of people like author New York Times best selling post podcasts,

612
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, which is fine, but that's not who

613
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 1: you are. There's just stuff you do. They're just make

614
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: anybody connect with you. They just go, oh, I know

615
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: the podcast, Oh I read the book, you know. And

616
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: our identity doesn't come from our credibility. Our identity comes

617
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: from our beliefs.

618
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: I remember the first time I went on television and

619
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: they were like, what do you want the chiroficial, lower

620
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: the chiron the thing to say, and I was like,

621
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: I don't. I wanted to say, dedicated to helping billions

622
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: of people find their purpose. Yeah, something like that, something

623
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: like that, and I was like, that's what I went

624
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: and they were like no, bit Jay, like that is it,

625
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: and I'm like, but that is who I am, and

626
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: I relate. I so relate to what you're saying, because

627
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: I never set out to be a social media creator,

628
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: or to be an author or to be a podcaster.

629
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: To me, these are just vehicles. They're just exactly all

630
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: mats of district, exactly mediums. They've got nothing to do.

631
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: Nothing, which is one of the reasons why I can

632
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: speak for you, I think, but for me for sure,

633
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: which is I'm super flexible as to how I get

634
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: my message out. You know, what got me here won't

635
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: get me there. And I'm not I don't define myself

636
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: as a speaker or a writer or whatever. Everything I've done.

637
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd write a book. I never thought

638
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: i'd have a podcast. I never thought i'd be a

639
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: public speaker. And so for me to walk away from

640
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: any of those things, it's super easy because not who

641
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: I am. It's just something I did. And even if

642
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm good at it's okay. But there are other new ways.

643
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: And so, you know, the idea of reinvention, I think

644
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: is sort of a misnomer, right, because I'm not reinventing.

645
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 1: I'm just taking a different route. I'm just sitting there

646
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: with a map, going, well, that road's going slower, why

647
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: don't we try that road over here. I'm not reinventing.

648
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: The reinvention comes in the car I'm driving, or the

649
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: or the destination. And you know, my destination is fixed

650
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: to the world in which the vast majority of people

651
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are,

652
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do.

653
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: There's only one destination. How I get there wherever the

654
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: best root is. And so I think that you see

655
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: it a lot when people get really good at something,

656
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: they're very afraid to change it because they confuse the

657
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: destination with the root. They confuse the goal with the journey.

658
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: Even though everybody knows all the tropes. You know, it's

659
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: not about the destination. It's about the journey, like we

660
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: all know that. But and I understand because the skills

661
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: set or the thing that did is what got me

662
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: to where I am, and to change or move away

663
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: from that is very scary. And it's only scary if

664
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: you don't have a grounding and why you do what

665
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: you do. Because as soon as you know why, it's

666
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: really easy. Yeah, because you start to see the hierarchy

667
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: that the why is more powerful and more important than

668
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: whatever route you chose or chose you because it could

669
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: have just been a sign of the times.

670
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And you don't get you don't get disappointed.

671
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: I was just talking to someone this morning on a

672
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 2: Q and A. You don't get disappointed when the platform

673
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: doesn't reciprocate. So what I mean by that is if

674
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: your wise, what you just beautifully said is to I'm

675
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: paraphrasing completely, but to help people using the skills you have.

676
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: If you get rejected, you don't think it's no to

677
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: what you're committed to. You just realize that's just not

678
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: where it's going to be disseminated, and you can continue

679
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: to try and find a new place for it to

680
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: be destributed. Whereas when you think, oh, this is a

681
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: rejection of my idea, you actually let go of the

682
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: idea that you so deeply carried.

683
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: So if I decide that the best way for me

684
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: to advance my messages for me to join the NBA

685
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: become a professional basketball player, I will learn very quickly

686
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: that that's not going to go well. Yeah, right, And

687
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: so do I go home depressed or do I say, well,

688
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: maybe basketball is not the best way.

689
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know exactly.

690
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting rabbit hole to go down because

691
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: it raises the question. And I can't remember you and

692
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: I've talked about this before, but knowing when to quit.

693
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: I think we did on yours.

694
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which because you know, there are some people

695
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: that say, nope, you never quit. That's what grit is.

696
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: And there's some people say nope, there's a time to

697
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: walk away. And the question is okay, but when when

698
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: do you apply grit and when do you walk away?

699
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: And my rule has always been if the sacrifice is

700
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: worth it, you keep going. Right. So, I'm exhausted, I'm tired,

701
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: But is it worth it for what I'm trying to do?

702
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: Is this sacrifices, this cost that I'm paying worth what

703
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: the outcome is going to be? And if the answer

704
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: is yes, you stick with it. If it's not worth it,

705
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: if the sacrifice no longer feels and that's the only standard.

706
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Does it feel There's nothing to do on a piece

707
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: of paper, there's no pros and cons. Right, If the

708
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: sacrifice feels worth it, you keep going in. The sacrifice

709
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: no longer feels worth it, you walk away. That's healthy.

710
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: I want to link with that, back that idea that

711
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: we're discussing here, back to friendship, going to your point

712
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: around not having friendship therapists, which I love the idea

713
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: that we don't go to therapy for our friends. How

714
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: do you know when it's okay to outgrow someone or

715
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: keep growing with them in the same ways we were

716
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: literally just talking about.

717
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: Right, So friends, friends, any like, any relationship needs to

718
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: be additive. Right. That doesn't mean every single time, but unbalanced.

719
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: We should all feel that who we're hanging out with,

720
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: who are spending time a non redeevable commodity. You can

721
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: spend money, you can lose money, you can make more money,

722
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: but if you spend time, that's it, that's gone. And

723
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: so we want to make sure that the people with

724
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: whom we spend time it's additive to our lives. You

725
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: get to define what additive means. Additive can means you

726
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: fill me up, you inspire me. Additive can mean I

727
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: just have a freaking rock and good time with you.

728
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: Additive can mean you give good advice, you define outever

729
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: you want. But I think on balance, our friends should

730
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: be additive. They should contribute something to our lives and

731
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: to our works being. And it absolutely happens for not

732
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: necessarily bad reasons, where for whatever reason, you just outgrow

733
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: each other. Sometimes it's just the natural ups and downs

734
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: and weirdnesses of life. You know, it's easy to be

735
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: friends when you're local. Your career takes you across the country,

736
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: around the world just harder, and those friendships sometimes fall away.

737
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: Nothing personal. Sometimes we outgrow people. That absolutely happens. I

738
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: had a friend who we would hang out a lot.

739
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: We were friends. We would get together, we would talk

740
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: about how much we hated our bosses and what we

741
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: hated about work, and I would try and make changes

742
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: in my life, get new jobs, take myself on, become

743
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: a better leader, and we would keep getting together, and

744
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: his problems were always the same. And you know, a

745
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: couple of years go by and I'm realizing I'm having

746
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: the same conversation with somebody who, for whatever reason, doesn't

747
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: want to take themselves on and doesn't want to listen,

748
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: and had advice for everybody but couldn't take it. And

749
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: you realize, I can't be in a friendship if I

750
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: can't serve my friend. Yes, I want to get from

751
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: my friends, of course, but I also want to give

752
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: to my friends. Right, there's tremendous joy in being able

753
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: to hold a friend up, oh, you know, and for

754
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: a friend to deny me the opportunity to serve because

755
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: they're to fill in the blank, to listen, take advice,

756
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, admit any kind of weakness. At some point,

757
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: we just drifted apat you know, I just stopped calling

758
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: and that's okay.

759
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: And you don't feel they needed to be a definitive

760
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: ending conversation to.

761
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: In that particular case.

762
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: Now, when when do you need one of those?

763
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: When there's a definitive ending. I think just let's make

764
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: the comparison to a divorce, right, there has to be

765
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: work before the definitive ending, So if you feel like

766
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: the relationship is worth protecting and saving and working on.

767
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: In that particular case, it seems like neither of us

768
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: felt like doing the work. We had a good time

769
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: and I don't think of it as an ending. I

770
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: think of a graduation, right, Like the relationship was great,

771
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: and then we graduated and we both moved on, right,

772
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: and that's fine, and graduated, right. I learned what I

773
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: could learn, and now it's time to go. But if

774
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: the relationship, if it's worth fighting for and you're doing

775
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: the work and maybe it's just not working, then I

776
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: think then you have a hard conversation and you sit down,

777
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: just like a divorce or leaving a job, like we're

778
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: trying this and I'm struggling and I don't know. I

779
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: don't know if it's worth anymore. Can we end this?

780
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 2: That's a good decision.

781
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: You know, I think ghosting is horrible.

782
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: You know.

783
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about you went out on one date

784
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 1: with somebody and like that's fine, you know, But I'm saying,

785
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, you hear about whether it's romantic relationships or

786
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 1: friendships where you've been hanging out a lot for six months,

787
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: seven months a year and then for whatever reason, you

788
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: decide you don't want to and you just stop. You

789
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: ignore the texts, you unfollow on socials, which is an

790
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: act of unbelievable passive aggression. And some people it's you

791
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: have to remember what you're doing to somebody when you

792
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: do that, which is especially if they can't look on

793
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: the socials and see that you're fine. There's this horrible

794
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: sense that something's happened to you, like if you got

795
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: into a car accident or something, the result would be

796
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: the same, and so the panic of are you okay

797
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: comes first. Then they may go on social and discovery

798
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: you're fine. They see you out at you know, out

799
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: at the club or whatever it is, and then you

800
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: reach out and they don't reach back. Now, so you've

801
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: gone through the panic of what's happened. Then you realize

802
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: they're fine, You realize you're being ghosted. Then the overwhelming

803
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: sense of what did I do? The guilt, the no

804
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: you get no closure, You give no closure. You allow

805
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: someone to chew in their own fears and insecurity and anxieties,

806
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: which is debilitating and cruel because you lack the courage

807
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: to say I don't know how to say this. Yeah,

808
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: I'm struggling in this friendship. I don't know what to do.

809
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: You know again, that's different from friends that just naturally

810
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: drift apart. And so I think you're right. I think

811
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: one of the things we have to learn to do

812
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: is how to have difficult conversations with our friends, even

813
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: if it means, like I think, at least give somebody

814
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: a breakup. Yeah, you know, a breakup is at least

815
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: there's still pain, there's still anxiety, there's still you know, mourning,

816
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: but at least give somebody the closure to do with dignity.

817
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: Well, I think your points were all taken because I

818
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: love the distinct you made because if you were working

819
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: on it, if you were both trying to bring some

820
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: enthusiasm and energy and trying to figure it out, you're

821
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: more likely to actually have a proper breakup.

822
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: Have you both come to the realization, I don't know

823
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: it is working totally.

824
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: And I like that a lot because it's almost like

825
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: sometimes we have the same expectations for a relationship that

826
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: we didn't put energy into for ones where we did,

827
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 2: and you can't really compare the two because.

828
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'll add one final copage is it's messy.

829
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: And it's the reason it's messy. It's because human beings

830
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: are messy. We're full of anxieties and ego and pride

831
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: and fear, and most of us don't have the skills

832
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: of co confrontation and listening. We suck at it. And

833
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: even if you have the skills, are you good at

834
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: applying them? And even if you have the skills, when

835
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: you had a bad night's sleep, or you're stressed or

836
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: you're feeling attacked, are you able to call upon those skills?

837
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: You and I do this, you know, a lot, and

838
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: we fail daily, you know, and it's thrown in our face.

839
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: I thought you knew how to like I do. But

840
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm struggling right now, clearly because I'm hurt, because my

841
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: feelings are hurt, and I'm lashing out and being defensive

842
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: interrupted you because I'm hurt, and that's not right. But

843
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: it's messy, and so you know, one of the things

844
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: that you can easily accuse both of us of is

845
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: sort of oversimplifying all of this stuff. And we do

846
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: oversimplify it to make the case and hopefully share some

847
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: lessons that we've stumbled upon over the course of our careers.

848
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: But it's still hard, and it's still messy, and it's

849
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: still imperfect, and that's kind of beautiful. I think that

850
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: makes people beautiful. I just had this conversation with somebody today,

851
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, like compare that to AI right. Let's say

852
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: you have a fight with your wife. You want to

853
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: get it right. Hey, chat GPT, can you tell me

854
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: what I have to say to get this right? And

855
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: chat GPT, which has been trained with all the best

856
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: therapy everything, this thing's a PhD, will give you the

857
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: exact right thing to say. And you go and say

858
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: to your wife you memorize it, and you say to

859
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: your wife exactly what chatcheeb he told you. And she goes,

860
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: thank you, my good, thank you. And then she finds

861
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: the script in your drawer and she said, did you

862
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: get this some chatchebt. Yeah, did you memorize it? Yet

863
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: she's going to be angry because there's nothing heartfelt about it.

864
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: It's hollow, it's not and she would rather you bumble

865
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: and fumble and do it wrong, but at least be

866
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: yourself and be it authentic. Can you imagine giving a

867
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: one hundred percent chatgebt written speech at a wedding, best

868
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: speech ever, and then somebody says, oh my god, that

869
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: speech was amazing. How'd you write it? Like no, chat

870
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: gbt wrote it for me, you know, And that's just

871
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: the feeling of.

872
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: Like, oh right, I disappointment.

873
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: I'd rather you give me a worse speech. But I

874
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: know it came from the heart, you know, and again

875
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: you know they're silly examples. But the point is is

876
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: that imperfect human and those two words are synonymous. Those

877
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: two words mean exactly the same thing, to be humans,

878
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: to be imperfect. To be imperfect is to be human.

879
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: It is the most beautiful thing in the world. Perfection

880
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: comes off a factory line. It's the difference between a

881
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: pottery barn mug and a beautiful piece of Japanese ceramic.

882
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: One is handmade. It is imperfect. It is gorgeous versus

883
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: the thing that comes off of machine. It looks the

884
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: same as all the other things that come up a machine.

885
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: It is perfect. It's fine. I like it, love it. Yeah,

886
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: And I think we forget that in this day and

887
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: age of incredible technology that can solve all the problems

888
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: for us and answer all the questions for us. It's

889
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: all there right, Like therapists should be afraid because Chatchybet

890
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: can do it. But to be able to sit like this, convene,

891
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: feel someone staring at you with love, to feel to

892
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: cry with someone and have them cry with you, you and

893
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 1: I have both welled up just because the other person

894
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: is welling up with us, and to feel a person

895
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: connect with you in your pain, to hug someone and

896
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 1: not want to let go. You know the rule at Disney,

897
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: the Disney rule for hugging.

898
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 2: No.

899
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: I learned this recently. It's the best thing in the world. Disney.

900
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: All of the characters are trained that when a little

901
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: kid hugs you, you may not let go until the

902
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: kid lets go first. Oh, that is not the best.

903
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: You hug the kid. Oh, it makes me cry. You

904
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: hug the kid as long as the kid wants to

905
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: hug you. And now do with a friend, hug your

906
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 1: friend until they let go, you know, apply the Disney rule.

907
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: I met somebody recently. She's wonderful human beings. She's got

908
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: a wonderful boyfriend. They're great couple, and they were saying,

909
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: when we hug, we hug for it. I don't remember

910
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: what the number was, thirty seven seconds, you know, sixteen seconds,

911
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: whatever the numbers. And I'm like, oh, that's okay. Why

912
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: that number they go because that's the amount of time

913
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: it takes for oxytocin to release, and so when we hug,

914
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, we hug for this period of time to

915
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: give each other the oxytocin rush because we love each other.

916
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, weird, but okay, I'll go I'll go

917
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: with it. You know, I'm sure the science is correct.

918
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: Somebody studied it, you know. You know. I saw her

919
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: in the hallway and I was like, hey, how are

920
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: you And she's like great, and she comes in for

921
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: the hug and we're hugging and I sort of stop

922
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: and I sort of like pull back a little, and

923
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to ask you. Are you counting?

924
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: She said yes. I said, I appreciate it, but let

925
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: me show you something. Yeah, okay, I want to just

926
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: show you something. Stop counting. Please, don't don't count. You're human,

927
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm human. Our bodies already know how to do this.

928
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: Stop counting. Just feel and then you let me know

929
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: when the oxytosins ares flong. So let's do this hug again. Okay,

930
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: So let's hug and we start hugging, and in a

931
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: few seconds, I don't know how many, Maybe it was

932
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: slightly more, maybe it was slightly less. I have no idea.

933
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: At some point we felt unbelievably connected. I mean we

934
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: could both feel it. And I said to her, do

935
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: you feel that, she goes. Yeah, I'm like, I'm feeling

936
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: it too. I think the oxytosin is flowing. And I'm like,

937
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,479
Speaker 1: wasn't that nicer. We're just allowed for it to happen

938
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: when it happens, as opposed to applying the science. Ye science,

939
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: somebody studied it and said it that doesn't mean you

940
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: should count it. It just means it takes a little bit. Yeah,

941
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: that's all it means. Yeah, a hug for longer, Just

942
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: hug for a little Let's just hug for a lot,

943
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: don't worry, right, Yeah, And it's this is our metrics obsessed,

944
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: metrics obsessed world. Like everybody's obsessed so much deep sleep

945
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: they gotten, how much rem they got and how many

946
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: ey its like. But there's also all of the I

947
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: find it ironic, right, all of these data obsessed people

948
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: data obsessed about you know. And before anybody gives me

949
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: shit because I'm wearing an orderring, it haven't I haven't

950
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: charged it in two years.

951
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: It's just a good belonging I.

952
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: Was given to me. I wear it somewhat sentimentally. And

953
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: I did replace it with a ring that looks just

954
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: like it. But that ring broke and I'm like, well

955
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: it looks the same, so I'm going to go back

956
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: to the one with the sentimental value. No I love that, No, no, no,

957
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: just but I think it's ironic with people who are

958
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: so data obsessed that they want to know, did I

959
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: drink a glass of wine? You know, did it affect

960
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: my rem that the data also shows that people who

961
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: obsess about the data actually suffer more stress than the

962
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: people who don't. Absolutely, And yet that's the funniest data

963
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: point of all.

964
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: The reason why I love it so much is because

965
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: you're also giving people a heightened agency and accountability of

966
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: feeling the change. Just feel, because that's what it is. Right.

967
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: It's like if I tell you something's a great hike,

968
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: or let's take something really everyone can relate to. If

969
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 2: I tell you something's a great restaurant and it's got

970
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: two Michelin stars, it's got ten star rating, it's got everything.

971
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: You could go there and hate the meal, sure, none

972
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 2: of that means anything in that sense. It's your taste

973
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: because you had to feel it, and that was what

974
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: made the difference. It wasn't the Michelin stars or the

975
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 2: rating or whatever it was, It was your feeling it

976
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: and we've lost that ability in a world where we're

977
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: counting on everyone else and everything else to tell us

978
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: if we've done it for long enough, short enough, have

979
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: we lifted for that long enough, you've lost the ability

980
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 2: to actually feel like I was talking to my doctor today.

981
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: I was saying, Hey, I'm not sure about this whole

982
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty grams of protein intake, Like I'm

983
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: just not feeling good, Like you just don't feel good.

984
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 2: That's a lot, that's not even as much you meant

985
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: to do, like your body weight in protein. And I've tried,

986
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: I've tried everything, but it's like I don't feel good

987
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 2: when I do it. So either, Yes, my digestion may

988
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: not be strong enough, it may need to be strengthened,

989
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: but at this point of my current strength, it doesn't.

990
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, I mean you're right. It's ironic right

991
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: where we trust we trust the watch, we trust the app,

992
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: we trust the numbers more than we trust ourselves. We

993
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: trust what we're being told, and we're doubting our own feelings.

994
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: And so the question is is A, why are we

995
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: doing that? And B shouldn't we learn how to trust

996
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: our feelings more? Right now? Yes, it feels good when

997
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: we eat the chocolate cake, but we all know that

998
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: it feels pretty gross if you do it too often. Right,

999
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: and so there's also data on this, which is people

1000
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: who stress about eating dessert, the cortisol released from the

1001
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: stress of eating the dessert is more harmful to your

1002
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: body than the dessert, right, and so, like, I think

1003
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: you're right, which is where why we were disconnecting from

1004
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: our bodies to the point where we don't even trust

1005
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: our bodies to know what's right for our bodies. I

1006
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: mean functional medicine. This is a large part of functional medicine,

1007
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: which is your body already knows. Your body knows how

1008
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: to heal itself, so all you have to do is

1009
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: protect the body, you know, Like I and I love

1010
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: these things, Like what are you doing, I'm doing a cleanse,

1011
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: So you're you're drinking lemon juice and cayenne pepper for

1012
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: a week, you know, and you're doing a cleanse. What

1013
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: are you doing while I'm cleaning. I'm cleaning my body

1014
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: of toxins. I'm like, that's what your liver and kidney

1015
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: do as long as your liver and kidneys are healthy, Like,

1016
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: you're good, you know, and so your body already knows

1017
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: how to get bad things out of it, Your body

1018
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: already knows how to fight disease, your body already knows

1019
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: how to do these things. The only thing you have

1020
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: to do is look after your body and trust your gut,

1021
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: right literally and figuratively, especially with the hugging, especially.

1022
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,479
Speaker 2: With even something that I love that example so much

1023
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 2: because it's like I love the idea that a kid

1024
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: knows when to let go, Like that idea of like

1025
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 2: only let go when the child lets go.

1026
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: It's so beautif kid knows, it's.

1027
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: Literally romantic, spectacular, and just the kid knows, it's so

1028
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: beautiful because that's actually what we want. We want someone

1029
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: to hold us for as long as we need to

1030
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:23,479
Speaker 2: be held.

1031
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: And I'll take it a step further. Right, So in

1032
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: terms of the kid knows, right, so good parenting advice

1033
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: is like, you know, like when it's cold outside and

1034
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: the parents like, put on your sweater. I don't want

1035
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: to put on your sweater. I don't want to put

1036
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: on your sweater. I don't want to let the kid

1037
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: go outside in the cold, and very quickly the kid

1038
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: will either be fine or not fine. The kid knows

1039
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: the kid, be like I am cold, put on a sweater, right,

1040
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: they won't right? Like Like there are little things that

1041
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: we know, and that goes right back to friendship. We've

1042
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: all been in relationships that suck energy from us and

1043
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: we feel like we have to like keep going because

1044
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, we've been friends for a bunch of years,

1045
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: so time is the only bond. You don't actually fill

1046
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: each other up anymore. You know, people grow up. You

1047
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: were a different person than you were five years ago.

1048
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm a different person than I was five years ago,

1049
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 1: hopefully better. I definitely know there's some skills that I've got.

1050
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm definitely a better friend. I'm a better leader, I'm

1051
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: a better boyfriend. Like I worked on those things, you know,

1052
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: and I'm better at it. You know what it's like.

1053
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, for a lot of us, we

1054
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: left home when we were eighteen, and we kept growing up.

1055
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: We went to school, we got a job, and we

1056
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: kept learning and growing and taking ourselves on. But our

1057
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: parents knew us up until we were eighteen, and then

1058
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: they missed the new growth. And then you come home

1059
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: and your parents are treating you like you're eighteen, and

1060
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: you're like I'm not. We say stupid things like I'm

1061
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: not a cute anymore, but they only know you as

1062
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: the eighteen year old. They've missed all the growth. And

1063
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: that sometimes happens where we're growing at different paces, or

1064
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: we grow and somebody else chooses not to and that's fine.

1065
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: But we know people differently.

1066
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: You know.

1067
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: It's like maybe there was a bully you had in

1068
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: high school who bullied you. They're not a bully anymore.

1069
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean they might be, but that's my memory, but

1070
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: that's your memory. So you come up with you you

1071
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: see them at a bar, and you come in with

1072
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: like animosity, you know, versus like how are you and

1073
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,439
Speaker 1: they're like I am sorry, you know, and I think

1074
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: that's I just find all this friends. I'll tell you

1075
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 1: one really funny.

1076
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1077
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: Hopefully you have friends that you can call on in

1078
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: really dark times that something's gone wrong, whatever it is,

1079
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: problems in your marriage, problems is your career, whatever it is,

1080
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: something went badly. You call for and be like, dude,

1081
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: can I just talk to you? Like life is not

1082
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: good right now. I just I just need to talk

1083
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: to somebody, like you know who those people are? Yes,

1084
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: you know exactly. The phone numbers you're going to call.

1085
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: What I've learned is the people when everything goes right

1086
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: and you want to just brag, like, dude, I just

1087
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: want an award. I just made a bunch of cash.

1088
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: I just I'm a frickin hero, I'm the smartest person

1089
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: in the room. That number of people that you can

1090
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: call is even smaller, true, And I just love the

1091
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: fact that there's more vulnerability in wanting to toot your

1092
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: own horn and ask a friend to hold space with

1093
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: no judgment, no jealousy, and no envy, and that number

1094
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: of friends that I can call and be like, I'm

1095
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: a frickin rock star and I just needed to tell

1096
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: somebody about how great I am and how proud I am,

1097
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: and that friend will gush and glow and cheer. And

1098
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: I remember a friend of mine called me and something

1099
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: amazing happened in his life, and like he didn't know

1100
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: who he could call because he didn't want to sound

1101
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 1: like he was bragging but to me, but he needed

1102
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: to get it out. And I just sat on the phone.

1103
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: I was like a proud parent. I was glowing. And

1104
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: you realize that chemicalist seratonin that when you see somebody

1105
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: walk across the stage at graduation and accept their diploma.

1106
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: Like their bodies are being consumed by serotonin with the

1107
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 1: feeling of pride. That's what seratonin gives you, the feeling

1108
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: of pride as they're graduating. You know that amazing feeling.

1109
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: But what we don't talk about is the parents and

1110
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: the friends and the family sitting in the audience also

1111
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: have serotonin pouring through their bodies and they feel the

1112
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: same pride for the person on the stage. Oh wow, right,

1113
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: And so when you have a friend that you can

1114
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: brag to and they share in your pride, both of

1115
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: you are coursing. Your veins are coursing with serotonin, and

1116
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: it is a pro social experience. In other words, it

1117
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: is making you even closer your ability to share the

1118
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 1: vulnerability of success, giving somebody else the opportunity to share

1119
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: in your pride. You're actually not bragging to them, that's

1120
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: not what's happening. You're both firing on serotonin. I felt

1121
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: the same pride, joy and excitement that my friend was feeling.

1122
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: And when I hung up the phone, I was in

1123
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: such a great mood because my friend had an amazing success.

1124
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful, I mean and that's.

1125
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: Because you have to do so much in a friendship

1126
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: of all the good stuff and the bad stuff, and

1127
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: that I don't want to be here, but I'm gonna

1128
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: sit here and the bad news and the time and

1129
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: the effort. You have to do so much work to

1130
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: nurture a friendship, to earn the mutual joy from either

1131
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: one's success, the fact that I can share in your

1132
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: success and you can share in my success, and I

1133
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: am feeling more confident in a great mood because you

1134
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: had success that just like a parent earns the feeling

1135
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: of pride from their child walking across the stage, because

1136
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: all the sacrifices of raising my kid. Now not everybody

1137
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: who knows my kid is not pouring with serotonin. It's

1138
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: the ones who earned it from the years of investing

1139
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: in the friendship, in the relationship. And that's what you

1140
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: miss in all these shortcuts. That's what we miss in

1141
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: all of this AI stuff. You don't get to earn

1142
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: those feelings, and those feelings are the best feelings in

1143
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: the world. And all those feelings do is make you healthier.

1144
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: The more oxytocin and serotonin you have in your body,

1145
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: you're less likely to die from heart tosease, you're less

1146
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: likely to get many cancers, you're less likely to get diabetes.

1147
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: In other words, friendship and the hard work of friendship

1148
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 1: and earning that oxytocin and earning that serotonin keeps you healthy.

1149
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: And then we go back to the chocolate cake and

1150
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: the exercise of the doctors, and you start to realize

1151
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: the healthiest thing I can do is not the diet.

1152
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: The healthiest place I need to apply my willpower is

1153
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: not on how long I'm working out, but it's how

1154
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: much time, effort, and energy and presence I give to

1155
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: my friends.

1156
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: But first, here's a quick word from the brands that

1157
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 2: support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.

1158
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: Now let's dive back in. Where this is hitting for

1159
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 2: me is that the challenge I think people are having

1160
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 2: today is they're struggling to clap for their friends when

1161
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 2: it's not their turn. People are struggling to feel joy

1162
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: for someone else's joy when they're not in a joyful state.

1163
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 2: So I've had real life scenarios in my life right

1164
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: now which I'll share that immediately came to my mind

1165
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: when you were saying this, which I love. There on

1166
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 2: this conversation is two examples. One person, and these are

1167
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: people who are really close. This is not like some

1168
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 2: fake friendship, really close. One of them's going through a miscarriage,

1169
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 2: the other one is expecting a baby, and the person

1170
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: of the miscarriage is feeling bad because they're a miscarriage.

1171
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: They're feeling bad because they can't celebrate their friend's wine,

1172
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 2: and they're now feeling bad that they don't even want

1173
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 2: to be around their friend because their friends are actually expecting

1174
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 2: And now that friend's feeling guilt because they're having a baby,

1175
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, how do we share this with

1176
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: that person who's just lost a baby? And it's real, right,

1177
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: Like it's really real. And this applies to people getting

1178
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: married before you The kids one is probably the most

1179
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: one of the most dream forms of it. But if

1180
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 2: people getting married, people getting engaged.

1181
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: Before your career doing great, somebody else's career hitting the skills.

1182
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: There's so many versions of all of it, but the

1183
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: most extreme one being or that I've heard so far

1184
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: as this, I've just lost a child and you're having

1185
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: a child, and we're best friends and we were going

1186
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: to be having children at the same time, and we

1187
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: were going to share that together.

1188
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: And we were going to.

1189
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 2: Raise our kids together and now I don't even you know, so,

1190
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: how what do we do when we can't share our

1191
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 2: win with our deepest friend because they're losing and they're

1192
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: scared to share space with us because they're threatened by

1193
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 2: your win.

1194
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: In that context, communication, right, and this is the thing.

1195
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: We avoid the communication because it's uncomfortable. I don't know

1196
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: what to say. I don't know what to say. You know,

1197
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: one person's the happiest they've ever been. The other person's

1198
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: the saddest they've ever been, and neither knows what to say,

1199
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: and both are consumed with guilt. Both are consumed maybe

1200
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of anger. I mean, there's all

1201
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: kinds of feelings, and feelings are messy and they slow,

1202
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: and you know, and the other one's success or achievement

1203
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: or in this case, pregnancy just reminds me of what

1204
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm going through. It makes it just makes it feel worse.

1205
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to be reminded right now. And it's

1206
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: kind of like when something bad happens in someone's life,

1207
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes we don't do anything because we don't

1208
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: know what to say, and we don't want to say

1209
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, and so sometimes that's the best thing

1210
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: to say. Hey, I don't know what to say. I

1211
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: don't want to say the wrong thing, but I want

1212
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: you to know I love you. I can't imagine what

1213
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: you're going through and it must be the worst thing

1214
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: in the world. I'm here when you need me. Take

1215
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: the space you need.

1216
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 2: Better to say.

1217
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: Just say something, say something incomplete. And when you say,

1218
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about getting it right, just say

1219
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: the thing you're feeling. And the feeling is I don't

1220
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: know what to say. Yeah, you know, I had a

1221
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: friend recently who lost somebody close to them, and you know,

1222
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: I got the text that says it happened, and I

1223
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: don't know what to say, and I write back, dude,

1224
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: that sucks. I'm sorry, that really sucks. That's all I had.

1225
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, and there's no rules,

1226
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: there's no right thing to say, and we don't know

1227
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: what state somebody else is in. And even the friend

1228
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: who is who had the miscarriage saying I love you,

1229
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: please understand, I'm just struggling. I love you. I just

1230
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: need a little bit of space. I will promise I

1231
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: will reach out soon. I love you, and it just

1232
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: opens up a space to say I love you too.

1233
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: I understand, you know, it's just a human moment. And

1234
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: I think what we have to do is like we

1235
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: try and come up with the right answers. What's the

1236
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: right thing to say? When this there's no right thing

1237
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: to say? And some people will handle it differently than others,

1238
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: and some people will go into deep sadness, and some

1239
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: people go into anger, and some people will be avoidant,

1240
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: and some people will bury themselves and pretend, I mean

1241
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: like there's no right And so what I've learned is

1242
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: instead of trying to guess, is a just say what

1243
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: I am feeling, which is I don't know what to say, Mike.

1244
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: Let me express my confusion, let me put out something

1245
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: and be there like when you're ready, please I'm here,

1246
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: which is kind of like saying I love you. And

1247
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: sometimes to ask. So I have a friend who called

1248
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: me and said I'm struggling. I said, so, do I

1249
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: go into solution mode because I know what to do,

1250
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: I know exactly what's going on, or do I go

1251
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: into the no, I got to hold space. This is

1252
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,919
Speaker 1: what friends do. They hold space for friends in need.

1253
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: And so I just said, what do you need. Do

1254
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: you need me to hold space or do you mean

1255
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: to offer you some ideas? And then they said I

1256
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: think right now, I just need you to hold space.

1257
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I will climb into the mud with

1258
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: you and I'll sit there for you with you, and

1259
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: when you're ready, you tell me. I think I'm ready

1260
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: to get out now and be like, oh hey, I

1261
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: got some ideas and a you can ask. You can

1262
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: ask for guidance if you don't know, as opposed to run,

1263
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: I guess and be if somebody gets it wrong, you

1264
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: can tell them. Yeah. The reverse happened to me. I

1265
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: was in a bad, bad place and I called somebody

1266
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,919
Speaker 1: where I just needed them to listen. And I called

1267
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: her up and I was like, I just I'm having

1268
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: a really hard week and can I just I need

1269
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: And then this happened, and then this happened and I'm

1270
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: feeling this and this happened and she went into fix

1271
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: it mode and it made me feel worse because I

1272
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: just need to feel heard in that moment and it

1273
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: was well intentioned, but I was getting angry. I could

1274
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: feel myself getting angry. I feel out myself getting frustrated,

1275
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: and I simply said, can I just interrupt you. I

1276
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: know it's well intentioned. What I need right now, I

1277
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: just need you to just listen. I'm not angry, please

1278
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: and thank you so much. What I need right now

1279
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: is please just listen. That's all I need. And she

1280
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm so sorry, and you can reset.

1281
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Please go ahead, thank you. Very few

1282
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: of us are experts, and even the experts bungle it

1283
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: all the time. And I think the just trying to

1284
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: say how you actually feel, telling people what you need

1285
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: in the moment you need it, and asking for what

1286
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: you need in the moment you need it right, that

1287
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: combination much can bumble through it all. It won't always

1288
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: be fun, but it's a good start. Yeah, And you

1289
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: don't need any PhD skills.

1290
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: The most important thing about that is saying something is

1291
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 2: better than saying nothing. And they're saying something, part speak

1292
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: your intention, like that's that's what I feel like. It's

1293
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: like when I'm sharing my confusion and I'm sharing my

1294
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: feelings and I'm scared to share them because they're messy.

1295
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: Going back to your earlier point, being human is messy,

1296
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 2: and you're right, sometimes I get a message like that too.

1297
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't really know what to say,

1298
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 2: and not saying anything is way worse than saying, hey,

1299
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I'm here. If you need me, let

1300
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 2: me know.

1301
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, and I don't know

1302
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: what you need exactly, and tell me if you feel

1303
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: up to it, please tell me exactly. Right, but I'm here.

1304
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: Just know one thing, one thing, one hundred percent sure

1305
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: is I'm here exactly, you know. Yeah, And that's sometimes

1306
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: all people needed to feel not alone, most mostly mostly Yeah.

1307
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: And I think we're also afraid of triggering somebody or

1308
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. And

1309
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: it's our own fears, that's our own insecurities. And it

1310
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: goes back to the ghosting. It's my fear of discomfort

1311
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: that's making it worse for somebody else. Yeah, you know.

1312
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: And it goes back to what the definition of a

1313
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,959
Speaker 1: leader is, right. A leader is the person who accept

1314
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: the awesome responsibility to see those around us rise. It's

1315
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: about caring for people, right, And it's a very leadery

1316
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: thing to do to just be the person who says,

1317
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, but here it is. Yeah.

1318
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 2: I remember this a while ago. There's someone that I

1319
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: knew that told me one of their friends came up

1320
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: to them and said they said exactly how they feel,

1321
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: but it was different. It said I'm envious of you.

1322
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: I kind of respect that.

1323
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, but it was hard for that person

1324
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: to hear it. Yeah, because they felt a creative a distance,

1325
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: even though to me, that person is being courageous.

1326
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: There's a way to do it though. Yeah, I wouldn't

1327
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: recommend going up to somebody to be like, dude, I'm

1328
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: really envious of you because you don't know the context.

1329
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 1: You know't where it's coming from. I think context is important,

1330
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: A good setup is important, you know, like, don't know

1331
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: what to say. You know, I'm afraid of saying this

1332
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: wrong right, and I think to say, I need to

1333
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: share something with you that's really uncomfortable for me to share,

1334
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: and I know it's revealing of my own issues. It

1335
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you, and I know it's

1336
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: something I'm dealing with, but I'm really envious of you,

1337
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: And that Letted least signals like it's not you, it's me.

1338
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: Like I'm dealing with my own insecurities and my own

1339
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: feelings of inadequacy and my own feelings and by the way,

1340
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: that same friend, you know, his career, just like when

1341
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: I was still like struggling and you know, trying to

1342
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: make a go of it, and I had no money,

1343
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 1: and he was starting his career starts to take off,

1344
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 1: and like we would go for dinner, and like he'd

1345
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: order expensive bottles of wine and I'm sitting there just

1346
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: stressed out because I know we're going to split the

1347
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: check and I am like everything he's ordering and I'm

1348
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: just like sitting there going and it's just making me

1349
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: feel worse. His success is actually making me feel bad

1350
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: and affecting a boat and feeling inadequate and feeling lesser than.

1351
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: But this is why he's a great friend. He goes, hey, listen,

1352
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: let's make a deal. I'll pay for the wine and

1353
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: let's just split the meal. I'm like, I'm good, thank you.

1354
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: I don't have to say a word. He knows where

1355
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: he is and he knows where I am.

1356
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: But that requires humility.

1357
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: And it still sucked. And I still hated it, and

1358
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: I still had jealousy and I still had anger. I

1359
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: still had all the feelings. As his career is flying,

1360
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: all it's his success is just reminding me what I

1361
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: haven't achieved or what I'm not achieving, or you know,

1362
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: am I ever going to achieve anything? You know, I

1363
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: wish I had. And he's buying big houses and things like,

1364
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, and not that I desire big houses, but

1365
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: I'm watching it happen. And I knew it was my issue,

1366
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: and I knew there's a there's a danger of me

1367
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: lashing out or making accusations. You're always throwing your money

1368
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: around in front of me. I knew all of that existed.

1369
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, I had the self awareness to be like,

1370
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: this is me, this is my issue, These are my insecurity,

1371
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: these are my fears, this is my ego. And I

1372
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: can't remember what I did. I sat in a discomfort

1373
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,959
Speaker 1: for a long time, and I think at some point

1374
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: I just talked to him. Yeah, and you know, he's

1375
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: he's one of my best friends in the world. And

1376
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: now I can look at him be like, dude, I'm

1377
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: so proud of you, like you freaking nailed it. And

1378
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: I've known him since we were eighteen years old, you know,

1379
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: so it's like we've known each other since we were

1380
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: both idiots. You know, we've known each other since we

1381
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: were eighteen. We lived across the hall from each other

1382
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: freshman year of college, and we've always been friends. We've

1383
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: never not been friends.

1384
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 2: So you can't be friends with people you're envyousself and

1385
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 2: people that are envious with view.

1386
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: I've never actually talked to him about it. It's really funny.

1387
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: I was actually just talking to him on the way

1388
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: up driving up to here, which is really funny. I've

1389
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:51,919
Speaker 1: never talked to him about it. I should. I don't

1390
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: know what his experience in that moment was being on

1391
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: the other side, but I treated it like a fight.

1392
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: I treated it like we have to get through this,

1393
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: even though he was pretty much uninvolved in the whole

1394
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: thing was going on in my own head. He was

1395
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: just going through life. He probably was completely in fact,

1396
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: knowing what I know about him, he was completely I

1397
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: guarantee you mostly unaware, right I remember, I just I

1398
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: love him, I care about him. Nothing happened. I didn't

1399
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: do anything to me, just doing well. I treated it

1400
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: like like this is a tension and I have to

1401
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: get through this because it goes right back to it

1402
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: before the stress is worth it. Yeah, this friendship is

1403
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: worth going this, This stress is worth getting through for

1404
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,879
Speaker 1: this friendship. It's not. You can't say that about all friendships,

1405
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: but in this case, it was it was worth it. It

1406
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: was worth it to sit in mud by myself and

1407
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: maybe tell somebody else what I was going through and

1408
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 1: have them go, oh, that sucks, you know. So I

1409
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure that's how

1410
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: I dealt with it. I probably told somebody else.

1411
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I had

1412
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 2: a friend say to me the other day. They said, Jay,

1413
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 2: you know the thing I love about you is that

1414
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 2: you've stayed the same despite your success. You taller a friend. Yeah,

1415
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 2: And it was just like and I said, you know,

1416
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 2: the reason why I've been able to be the same

1417
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 2: with you is because you've stayed the same with me.

1418
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 2: And it was this really interesting not that we haven't

1419
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 2: changed or grown. Of course, I've learned new skills, so

1420
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 2: they but that they didn't think I was changing negatively

1421
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 2: and that allowed me to continue to be who I

1422
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 2: wanted to be with them.

1423
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: You only get half the credit on that, right. The

1424
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: other half of the credit is that I guarantee you

1425
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: that other people in your life, other friends, will give

1426
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: me a different answer that they will say now that

1427
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: Jay's all successful and you know.

1428
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 2: No, but that's the point of my life.

1429
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like he's like aloof Now that's the point.

1430
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So my point is that's exactly what I'm saying.

1431
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 2: That maybe I didn't explain it. Well, he's saying that

1432
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: I'm giving him the credit back. Oh yeah, yeah, because

1433
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 2: I'm saying, you didn't change what you've viewed of.

1434
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: In me, right, So I never he's done the work.

1435
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, because he's allowed me to continue to be

1436
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: me without judging me comparing this and you're right, You're right.

1437
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 2: It is only half the credit.

1438
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: For sure, you know, and you you may have changed totally,

1439
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: and you may be more aloof you know, and you

1440
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: may be more cynical, and you may be more guarded.

1441
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: All of that and some people who may experience you

1442
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 1: is different. Right, all those things can be true. But

1443
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: I love the fact. Yeah, I think he gets the

1444
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: credit for having the strength of ego to recognize that.

1445
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my point. Yeah, yeah, that's it.

1446
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: Gets the credit came across from but he gets he

1447
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: gets all the credit. He gets. That's really cool.

1448
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just a really interest. It never clicked

1449
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,679
Speaker 2: to me because I was receiving it, and I was like, yeah,

1450
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 2: but can't you know maybe I have exactly what you're saying.

1451
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: Like I was like, maybe I have changed. Not everyone

1452
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 2: would agree with that, but it was the idea that

1453
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 2: was him that that was that way we kind of

1454
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 2: went to the end of a relationship like breakups. But

1455
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 2: I was thinking about another thing that I feel a

1456
01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 2: lot of people are struggling with friendships that I at

1457
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 2: least here right now, are people who are wanting to

1458
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 2: kind of like where you were actually, but you're wanting

1459
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 2: to grow, You're wanting to pivot into a new business,

1460
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 2: You're wanting to start something. And what I've noticed is

1461
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 2: we're not scared of what people think on the internet.

1462
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 2: We're scared of what people around us think when you're

1463
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 2: starting something, Like when you're trying to begin something, you're

1464
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 2: not really scared about what some anonymous person says on

1465
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 2: the internet. That's not even on your mind. You're scared

1466
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 2: about what your friend from college is going to say

1467
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 2: about that video you made, or you're scared of what

1468
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 2: your friend from high school is going to say about

1469
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: the business you're about to start. You're scared of the

1470
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 2: LinkedIn update that goes out to your former colleagues, right, Like,

1471
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: that's the thing you're worried about. What do we do

1472
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 2: when we feel that people around us don't believe in us?

1473
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 2: Are the most cynical, the most skeptical, are the most

1474
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 2: negative about our ideas.

1475
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: That's interesting even a person, for anybody who wants to

1476
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 1: accomplish anything of value in the world. And when I

1477
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: dunk of value, I think of impact. Right, That's how

1478
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: I define it. Right, if you want to operate at

1479
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: a skille that's bigger than yourself, and if you want

1480
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: to and when I say bigger stuff, it could be

1481
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: three people, right, meaning I want to have an impact

1482
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: in three people's lives around me. I want to be

1483
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: the best parent in the world. Right. My point is

1484
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 1: more than you. Right. So I think we confuse when

1485
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: we think bigger than ourselves. We don't necessarily mean national stage.

1486
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: Bigger than yourself can just means more than one. Right.

1487
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: Anybody who wants to have an impact in the lives

1488
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: of others has to get used to the idea that

1489
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: not everybody's going to like you, Right. You just have

1490
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: to get used to that idea. And for me, I

1491
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,879
Speaker 1: have rules, which is if you don't like me because

1492
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 1: you disagree with me. I'm cool with that. Right. If

1493
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 1: you don't like me because somehow I make you uncomfortable,

1494
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that too. But if somebody I respect

1495
01:12:56,800 --> 01:13:00,879
Speaker 1: doesn't like me, now I've got a problem, right, because

1496
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm not so blind and pigheaded to be like, screw

1497
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: the world, it's me. You know. If you don't like it,

1498
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: you can you know, you can eat it. Right. My

1499
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: eyes are open. And if there's a friend I care about,

1500
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: who's m simon? Okay, I got to take that seriously

1501
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: because now I'm getting too big for my breeches, or

1502
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,879
Speaker 1: now I'm not listening, or now I'm ignoring my blind spots,

1503
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 1: And now I got a problem, right. But if somebody

1504
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: just disagrees with me, I mean, what am I supposed

1505
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: to do? I don't get everything right. Sometimes things come

1506
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 1: out wrong. Give me some grace, you know. But if

1507
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: you just disagree with me, like what am I like?

1508
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I actually don't know what to do.

1509
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: It's like the gold dress, blue dress? Remember that? Yeah,

1510
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: it's like the dress is blue, You're an idiot, it's gold.

1511
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, what am I supposed to do. I see

1512
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: it as blue. I don't know what to do. That's

1513
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: what it is, right, It's hard. Everybody wants people to like.

1514
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 1: You know, I have a lot of respect for people

1515
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: who like literally don't care. Yeah, I don't have that.

1516
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 2: Well, it goes back to what you were saying earlier

1517
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 2: that we're looking for people to affirm, confirm, and join.

1518
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 2: So it's like when you have that idea and everyone

1519
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 2: around you, who you thought supported the same football club

1520
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 2: and had the same values doesn't agree with you, it

1521
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 2: kind of feels like there's something wrong.

1522
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 1: You're kind of raising something that's quite least, it's quite insidious.

1523
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: We can't help but think about like likes and views

1524
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: on a post that you know, we get our sense

1525
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,600
Speaker 1: of self from how many likes we get, And this

1526
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: video got more likes. I'm bohite, period, I'm awesome, this

1527
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: video gout no likes, Oh my god, I'm worthless? Yeah

1528
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: like or how many views it gets. And that's sort

1529
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: of the macro social media version of what you're talking about,

1530
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,560
Speaker 1: which is if people like me, I must be a

1531
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,679
Speaker 1: good person. That people don't like me or aren't giving

1532
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: me a lot of views, I might I must not

1533
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 1: be a good person, and how to disconnect a like

1534
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: or a view or a comment from what I'm trying

1535
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: to do here and what I'm putting out in the world.

1536
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: And the problem is it's the incentive structure, right, because

1537
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:11,640
Speaker 1: if you're making money from views, if your sense of

1538
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 1: value in the world comes from those numbers, that's the

1539
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: insidious version of what you're saying. And how do you

1540
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 1: get comfortable like some will do well? Like I can

1541
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: tell you I've won the Internet Lottery more than once.

1542
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 2: Yeah you have.

1543
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: I have won the Internet Lottery more than once. And

1544
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 1: I've had multiple things that I've put out there go

1545
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 1: very viral. None of them did I predict. The videos

1546
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: that I thought would do well fine, And the videos

1547
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: that I had no clue went you know, and they

1548
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,560
Speaker 1: went ballistic and it wasn't because the production quality, and

1549
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 1: it wasn't I didn't just didn't know something connected, you know.

1550
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: That's why I call it virals. I was at a

1551
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: dinner once and a guy I'd like, what do you do?

1552
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 1: He's like, I made viral videos. I'm like, no, you don't.

1553
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 1: You make videos and you hope they go viral. And

1554
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: that's why this stuff is hard. Now you can do

1555
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: tricks and games. You and I both know people who

1556
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: use all the tricks and games to drive the views.

1557
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 1: And you know, and there are tricks and games on Amazon,

1558
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 1: there are tricks and games on YouTube, there are tricks

1559
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 1: and games on Instagram, right, TikTok, they all have tricks

1560
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: and games. But when something actually goes for legitimate reasons,

1561
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: it's because you connected with somebody you didn't even really

1562
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: knows realize why or how. And to make those the

1563
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,759
Speaker 1: standards is ridiculous. It's stupid. Like people said to me, Simon,

1564
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, after I wrote, start with why, how are

1565
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: you going to write a second book as popul as

1566
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: the first? The answer was easy, I'm not. I'm not.

1567
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: Didn't predict that, didn't orchestrate her. That's like asking me,

1568
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: how are you going to repeat that lottery win? Well,

1569
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: I've studied the numbers I picked the first time, and

1570
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: I've got a formula I having to pick. No, I

1571
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: won the freakin lottery? What do you want from me?

1572
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know.

1573
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do the best job I can

1574
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: the second time, and it won't do as well. And

1575
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: that's okay, you know, And I think to disconnect our

1576
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: value from the metric. Is a is really the lesson here?

1577
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and on on that small scale of.

1578
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 1: The I'm not less valuable because my second book didn't

1579
01:16:57,800 --> 01:16:58,759
Speaker 1: sell as well as my first.

1580
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, me too, But yeah, I know that

1581
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 2: that point that you're making to me, that micro version

1582
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 2: is that I don't feel value. Like, for example, when

1583
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 2: I put on my first video the people closest to

1584
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 2: me or maybe second closest to me, where like, you

1585
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 2: talk too fast, the editing's bad, the music's soft, and

1586
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 2: the funny thing is they were right like that all

1587
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 2: of that was true, but it resonated with someone right.

1588
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 2: It was like a weird It was like this weird

1589
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 2: thing where and I've seen that with people when they're

1590
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 2: trying something new. It's like the people around them will

1591
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 2: be the most cynical, the most skeptical, And if you

1592
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 2: use that as feedback it could get better, or if

1593
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 2: you use it as like, hey, you're not really an

1594
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 2: explant that you don't know much, I'm just going to

1595
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 2: get on with it, right. That's what I'm trying to

1596
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 2: get at is like how does how does someone deal

1597
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 2: with the discomfort of just your best friend thinks your

1598
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 2: business idea sucks, or like your your best friend thinks

1599
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 2: the person you're dating is not right for you.

1600
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: But you're conflating a lot of stuff there.

1601
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 2: I like the best and doesn't like the best in

1602
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 2: your date.

1603
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: That's a hard one. Yeah, very often they don't tell

1604
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: you until you after you've broken up.

1605
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 2: Why do our friends feel like they have to wait

1606
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 2: till we break up?

1607
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 1: Because it's really uncomfortable to say I don't like your partner.

1608
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 2: Could we do something better about that too?

1609
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 1: Can I have a really uncomfortable conversation with you? You know?

1610
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 2: Could we do something better to help our friends have

1611
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: uncomfortable comed.

1612
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, sometimes not all

1613
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: our partnerships are unerstood by our friends too. I've definitely

1614
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: been in partnerships that people are just like really, I'm like, no, no, no,

1615
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: you don't understand the value that this person gives to me.

1616
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: And this person is the exact right person I need

1617
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: to date for the place I'm in right now, you know.

1618
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: I mean I had a girlfriend many years ago who

1619
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 1: nobody could like they looked at us walking dow the

1620
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:40,560
Speaker 1: street and people just like like I me and my

1621
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: friends like they're like, what like they couldn't understand this relationship.

1622
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: And what they didn't understand is who I was and

1623
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 1: what I need In that time, she was magical and

1624
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 1: we're still friends, but nobody, nobody got it, and she

1625
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: was socially awkward and like so like if you've got

1626
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: friends with big personalities and you know, we go and

1627
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: she's just quiet the whole night, Like my friends didn't

1628
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 1: get it. That's the other thing I've learned, which is

1629
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: to do people not like the girl I'm dating or

1630
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: do they just want somebody who's the life of the party.

1631
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 2: You know, that's a great point.

1632
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if they're looking for somebod who's a life

1633
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: of the party, that's not who I'm dating. She's the rock,

1634
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: she's not the fireworks. She's stable, and that's what I need. No.

1635
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that because I think you're right.

1636
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 2: I mean introverts in general, in friendships in great settings

1637
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 2: like my family.

1638
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: My parents have never liked quote unquote any introvert I've

1639
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 1: ever dated. They love the extroverts because the extroverts are

1640
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: fun and the introverts are awkward. That's pretty much it.

1641
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

1642
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 2: our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now

1643
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 2: back to the discussion. I think everyone who's listening right

1644
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 2: now and watching me include it is thinking of someone

1645
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 2: in my life right now. Yeah, that I don't enjoy

1646
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 2: being around because they're introverted. Yeah, And even though I

1647
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 2: can be very introverted in certain group settings, Yeah, and

1648
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 2: certain group friends saying I'm the biggest introviet there is. Yeah,

1649
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 2: and then in sand and I'm the awkward ones sometimes

1650
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 2: where people like I don't get it same you're dating him.

1651
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 2: He's so vivacious on stage and on camera, and at

1652
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 2: dinner he was quiet and grumpy. How should introverts think

1653
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 2: about friendships differently to extroverts.

1654
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 1: I don't think they should think about friendships differently. I

1655
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: think they're all the same. The rules are the same,

1656
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 1: you know. I think we confuse introversion extraversion in social awkwardness.

1657
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: There are socially awkward introverts. There are socially awkward extroverts.

1658
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 2: Definitely.

1659
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 1: There are socially functional introverts, and there are socially functional extroverts.

1660
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:46,640
Speaker 1: I am a socially functional introvert, right, I'm okay, you

1661
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: know I'm not that awkward, though I can be. My

1662
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 1: ex would make fun of me. We'd go to a

1663
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 1: party and like all these little groups of conversations, you know,

1664
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: people standing around in threes and fours with their drinks

1665
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: talking one over there, one over there, and I never

1666
01:20:58,080 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: knew how to insert myself into one of them. And

1667
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: I know, oh the people like, but I never know

1668
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: how to insert myself. And so I just stand by

1669
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 1: myself with my drink in the middle of the room.

1670
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: And she would always make fun of me that I

1671
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,560
Speaker 1: would just stand there by myself, just totally fine, just

1672
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 1: taking the room in, you know, and I just feel

1673
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: sorry sorry for everybody else is looking at me going out.

1674
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: I don't even know. People don't know how to talk

1675
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: to me. How do you walk up to it? A

1676
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: person just standing in the middle of the room by themselves,

1677
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: Like I think friendships are the same, Like, of course

1678
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: it's partially. It's energy, is what we get from people.

1679
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: And I'm going to go right back to what we

1680
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 1: said before. Stop thinking about the introversion of the extraversion

1681
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: of life of the party, death of the party. Does

1682
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: this person give you something? Are they additive to your day,

1683
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 1: to your night, to your life? Not every friendship has

1684
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: to be a deep, meaningful relationship, but every friendship should

1685
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 1: be additive, and it should they should be worth the

1686
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 1: time and the energy that we invest. Yeah, right, And

1687
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:50,560
Speaker 1: one thing I look to is you don't need to

1688
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: keep score, but you do want there to be some

1689
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 1: reciprocal investment. I've definitely had friendships where I'm the one

1690
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 1: making the plan, I'm the one doing the calling, I'm

1691
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: the one doing the texting. They always respond, But if

1692
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 1: I didn't call her text I'm not sure I'd ever

1693
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 1: hear from them again for the rest, you know. And

1694
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: in those scenarios, I'm asking myself, like, we have fun,

1695
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm investing. What if we didn't? What if I didn't invest?

1696
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, And so I've done little experiments where

1697
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: I just like, don't and some of those friendships drift apart.

1698
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: They just drift apart, and you're like, huh, okay, got it,

1699
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 1: not offended. And then other times the person will be like,

1700
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 1: I have not talked to you for so long. You

1701
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 1: are always so good at staying in touch with me.

1702
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm a bad friend. I'm going to do better. I

1703
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 1: don't like not talking to you, And they pick up

1704
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 1: their game, and again it goes right back to where

1705
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: we started. If you peel the onion back one layer.

1706
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 1: A lot most of us are bad friends, and most

1707
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: of us are lazy, you know, and most of us

1708
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 1: would prioritize work before a friend and take our friends

1709
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 1: for granted. In this case, when one person's putting in

1710
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: all the energy, it's super easy to be the lazy friend.

1711
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: On the other end, I've definitely been the lazy friend

1712
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 1: on the other end, you know, I have one friend

1713
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: rockstar rock star. It's making plans, getting in touch and so,

1714
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: you know.

1715
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 2: But that's that thing, right It's like when we're looking

1716
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:10,759
Speaker 2: at the question of as someone additive to my life,

1717
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 2: if they don't ask the other side of.

1718
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 1: Also, it's also what you're looking for, right, Like if

1719
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 1: you as long as it's communicated. I think it's like,

1720
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 1: thank you so much for always being so good at

1721
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 1: being the one who initiates every time we get together,

1722
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: because I can tell you every time we get together,

1723
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: I love seeing you. Thank you for leading the way.

1724
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 1: It's I think it's just acknowledgment. Again. This is why

1725
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: these things, like human beings are messy. There's only a

1726
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 1: few things that are quote unquote right or wrong. But

1727
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,840
Speaker 1: a lot of this is figuring out what each person wants,

1728
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: and sometimes by the way, they want things different things

1729
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 1: at different times. And that's the if you're really busy,

1730
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 1: if you're really stressed, or if you're really distracted, or

1731
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: and like, well, we've all been the person or been

1732
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: the friend of the person who like has a new

1733
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 1: romantic relationship and all of a sudden you don't anymore.

1734
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: Ye right, We've all been that person, and we've all

1735
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 1: been on the receiving end of that person, right, And

1736
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: then they break up, and then they start calling and

1737
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well now that you're now that I'm

1738
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: you're not busy, and now you're a friend again, right right, yeah,

1739
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: And so like what do.

1740
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 2: You do in that situation? Do you allow it? Do

1741
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 2: you pretend to be disrespected? Are you offended? I feel

1742
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 2: like we have such we've seem to have such big reactions,

1743
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 2: we will be such common occurrences.

1744
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 1: I think communication is like lubrication. The more communication there is,

1745
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: the easier the machine goes. And without communication you get

1746
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 1: is friction. Right, most fights amongst friends. I just had

1747
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 1: a fight with a friend just this week. It was

1748
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 1: based purely on first miscommunication and then total lack of

1749
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: follow up, and then the tension just grew and grew

1750
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: and grew until one of us was like, this is ridiculous.

1751
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: It's usually miscommunication and then lack of communication, and so

1752
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 1: if you can communicate even badly, that will lose bcate

1753
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: the relationship. And so what I find is that good

1754
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 1: relationships talk about the relationship. Yeah, Like, you see good

1755
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 1: marriages and they like, I love how our marriage works

1756
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: so well. And you see good friendships. You know, you're like, ugh,

1757
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: here's what I love about our friendship. I love that

1758
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 1: I can tell you everything. I have one friend that

1759
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 1: almost every time we talk, almost every time, I will

1760
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: say the same thing. Do you know One of the

1761
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 1: reasons I love our friendship is because debt dot dot

1762
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: dot dot, and I say it, and I even say

1763
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 1: I know, I say this every time I talk to you,

1764
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 1: but it's just how I feel every time I do.

1765
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: I love that we're friends because I can dot dot

1766
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 1: dot or you make me feel dot dot dot every time,

1767
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: and we talk about the friendship, and I think that's healthy.

1768
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: And so it's okay to talk about the friendship. It's

1769
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 1: okay to say here's what I love, here's what I

1770
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, and and it's okay if we need different

1771
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 1: things in different moments. And as I said before, if

1772
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: we do the work, it's not the chat Chebt answer.

1773
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 1: It's if you do the work, you get to earn

1774
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: the serotonin, you get to earn the oxytocin, you get

1775
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 1: to earn the feeling of the hug because it is

1776
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 1: natural and not because you counted for it. The serotonin's

1777
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: because it's earned and you have genuine joy. And if

1778
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: you cannot because you've got your own stuff going on,

1779
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: if you cannot be that person for the time that

1780
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: you know they need you, then simply say so, I

1781
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 1: got shit going on in my life. I can't be

1782
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 1: the person you need me to be right now. I

1783
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: love you, I love you, I love you. I just

1784
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: need to deal with my own shit, because otherwise people

1785
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 1: will make up stories. Ninety nine times out of one

1786
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 1: hundred tho stories are wrong, and then we will treat

1787
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,560
Speaker 1: people or act based on our version of events or

1788
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 1: our story. And that's all listening is. Listening is just

1789
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: hearing what the other person's story is, just so I

1790
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: have the context for why you've been acting the way

1791
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 1: you've been acting. The story doesn't have to be right.

1792
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 1: It's just their story, just like my story doesn't have

1793
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 1: to be right. It's right to me, but it's just

1794
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 1: my experience of something like my friends like you did this,

1795
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,600
Speaker 1: and then you did this, and then you did this,

1796
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 1: and I was like wow, and I didn't say well,

1797
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 1: I didn't intend to. I said wow, I'm sorry, like

1798
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Yes I did do that, And now

1799
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: I want to tell you my experience of what happened

1800
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 1: to the same event. You did this, and you did this,

1801
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 1: and you did this, and she said no, I didn't,

1802
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: and I went, I'm not telling you, I'm right. I

1803
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: just want you to hear how I experienced what went down,

1804
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: so you have context for why I acted the way

1805
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: I acted, because now I have context for the way

1806
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: you acted the way you acted. Neither of us is

1807
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: right and both of us are right. So this is

1808
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:40,679
Speaker 1: about understanding, not about competing. And the funny thing about

1809
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 1: communication is when somebody gets it wrong or when somebody

1810
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 1: gets it right, you'd be like, thank you for saying that.

1811
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: That's the best thing I needed to hear. And when

1812
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:49,719
Speaker 1: they get it wrong, you'd be like, don't invalidate my story.

1813
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 1: Please just listen to my story. Sorry, sorry, sorry, you're right,

1814
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right. Like this is the great thing

1815
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 1: about human beings is we can actually like give people

1816
01:27:57,400 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: guidance about what they're getting right and wrong in the

1817
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,640
Speaker 1: moment and it doesn't destroy the moment, and you can

1818
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: be like, you're right, I'm sorry, I'd like to reset.

1819
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:08,560
Speaker 1: Please continue. We can do that and it works. I

1820
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 1: have one friend. I mean, it's how so funny that

1821
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: how much guidance were able to give people as opposted

1822
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 1: letting them guess. I have one friend I was upset

1823
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: about something another who knows what I was hurt. I

1824
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: was like, can I just tell you? And I did

1825
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 1: all the things I want to tell you. I'm hurt,

1826
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 1: and this is the story I'm telling myself may not

1827
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 1: be true. I just want you to know what happened

1828
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,840
Speaker 1: when you said this. It made me feel this way,

1829
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 1: and she goes, well, that's not what I intended. I'm like,

1830
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 1: I didn't say you intended it. I just want you

1831
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: to know how I feel, and she goes, well, that's

1832
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: those are your feelings. I'm not responsible for the way

1833
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 1: you feel. I'm like, well, actually you are. You know,

1834
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: when people say like, I'm not responsible for your feelings,

1835
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: your feelings, your feelings, I'm like, that's not true. If

1836
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you say something mean and it hurts my feelings, yes

1837
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 1: they're my feelings and I'm responsible for my feelings. But

1838
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: you said that that made me feel bad. So yes,

1839
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 1: you are involved in this chain of events. I totally

1840
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 1: reject this idea as like I'm not responsible for your feelings,

1841
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 1: your feels or your flings, Like, no, you called me,

1842
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: you called me ugly, and that hurt my feelings because

1843
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 1: it tapped into my insecurities.

1844
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, when it's not black and white, yeah, you know,

1845
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 2: but it's you are.

1846
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: You're in the chain of events. I'm not saying you

1847
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 1: did on a purpose anyway. So I'm going on and

1848
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:17,719
Speaker 1: on and she's just if they deny push, that's your problem.

1849
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 1: Those are your feelings. I'm not responsible your feelings. I'm

1850
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:21,639
Speaker 1: living my life. You're living a life. This is going

1851
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: on and on it and I'm getting more frustrated. I'm

1852
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: getting more upset. I'm not feeling heard, And I just said,

1853
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 1: can I just give you some advice about how this

1854
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: is going to just because you're getting frustrated with me.

1855
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm getting freshured with you. This is super easy, right,

1856
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: Just say sorry. That's all I need. Just just say sorry.

1857
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: You said those words. Just say sorry. She goes I'm sorry.

1858
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, thank you, and then we were fine.

1859
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. You can guide it.

1860
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 1: You can guide it. And so it's like, well, I'm

1861
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 1: not saying sorry, I'm like, I'm literally telling you all.

1862
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 1: And by the way, one of the best lessons in

1863
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: the world. Saying you're sorry doesn't mean you're wrong correct

1864
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 1: Saying you're sorry means you take accountability for the things

1865
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: you said or the actual that were performed. And where

1866
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 1: people like, well I don't have to say sorry if

1867
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 1: I didn't attend them. Well, if you're walking through the

1868
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: airport with your wheelibag and you run over someone's foot

1869
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: by accident, you turn around and they turn around and

1870
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm so sorry, right, didn't do it on purpose,

1871
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: but it is your wheelibag. Now if they turn around

1872
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: and look at you, waiting for the the sorry, and

1873
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 1: you're like and you look at me like, what, I

1874
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 1: didn't do it on purpose, and a fight will ensue.

1875
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: You will get yelled at.

1876
01:30:26,360 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 2: That's a great example, right, Yeah, you didn't.

1877
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Do it on purpose. It's still your wheelie bag, right,

1878
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: you didn't do it on purpose. There's still your words,

1879
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 1: there's still your actions. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but

1880
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 1: they are yours. And all you have to do is

1881
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: apologize because it did come from you. And like I said,

1882
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:48,799
Speaker 1: I reject this whole sort of like, I'm not responsible

1883
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 1: your for your feelings. Your feelings are yours. I don't

1884
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 1: have to apologize. I'm like, dude, you're mean, you were mean,

1885
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 1: you are mean, Like, what are you going to tell you?

1886
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh my gosh, it's been such a joy to

1887
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 2: talk to you. I always feel you're so refreshingly human

1888
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 2: in all your insights. They're going back to your point

1889
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 2: on imperfect as imperfect as human and human is imperfect.

1890
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:17,679
Speaker 2: It's so refreshingly human to just talk to you about

1891
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 2: these ideas when sometimes we can end up living in

1892
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:23,680
Speaker 2: a didactic three ways in two ways and say this

1893
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 2: and it's true, it's all of that's helpful and it's

1894
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 2: completely unhelpful because the reality.

1895
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:30,680
Speaker 1: It's useful and useless at the same time.

1896
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 2: Exactly, Yeah, because the reality is this. I just thank

1897
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 2: you for showing up in that way. Because I love it.

1898
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 2: I really enjoy it because what I freeze you, it's freeing.

1899
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 2: It's liberating to know that, you know, if you can

1900
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 2: be messy, we all can.

1901
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,320
Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to present themselves as

1902
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 1: they are, which is messy, because to present yourself as perfect, yeah,

1903
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:55,879
Speaker 1: sets up an unfair standard for other people to live by. Absolutely,

1904
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 1: and usually people present themselves as perfect, usually out of

1905
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: absolute fear that they don't want people to know that

1906
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: they're actually imperfect. And I'll say what I said before.

1907
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: To be beautiful is to be human. To be messy

1908
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:11,200
Speaker 1: is to be beautiful. We don't fall in love with

1909
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 1: the perfection. We fall in love with the imperfection. We

1910
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 1: fall in love when somebody lets us be imperfect, allows

1911
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 1: us to be imperfect, and allows us to love them

1912
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 1: for being imperfect. We showed up on the first date

1913
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: because of all the perfection and imperfection is earned, like

1914
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 1: the space to be imperfect is earned. You do not

1915
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,720
Speaker 1: reveal all your imperfections on date one too soon, too much.

1916
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:37,640
Speaker 1: That's overwhelming. And when you do the work and you

1917
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,000
Speaker 1: take the small risks that then become big risks. I

1918
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 1: want to be my messy self. With somebody who loves

1919
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: me for my messy self. And I want somebody to

1920
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: feel that I love them no matter how messy they are.

1921
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 1: And that is a high standard and a hard thing

1922
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:54,600
Speaker 1: to find. And if you have a friend like that,

1923
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 1: you work damn hard to protect that friendship.

1924
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 2: And we end every episode of On Purpose with a

1925
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 2: final five. These have to be answered in one word

1926
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 2: to one sentence maximum. Okay, So Simon Sinek, these are

1927
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,320
Speaker 2: your final five. Question number one, what is the best

1928
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 2: advice you've ever heard or received? Let's do it to

1929
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 2: do with friendship.

1930
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 1: So the best advice I ever got professionally is three

1931
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:20,040
Speaker 1: quarters of an answer is better than an answer and

1932
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,320
Speaker 1: a half. And I think it actually, I actually think

1933
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:25,600
Speaker 1: it applies to friendship too. Sometimes just shut up. You know.

1934
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:29,400
Speaker 1: One of the best advice I got personally is you

1935
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:31,439
Speaker 1: don't have to know everything and you don't have to

1936
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:34,479
Speaker 1: always be right, and that's of relief.

1937
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 2: Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever

1938
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 2: heard or received?

1939
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: Trust me, I've been doing this longer than you.

1940
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 2: Aha, that's a good I like tho.

1941
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,080
Speaker 1: I try and ignore people to tell you that.

1942
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:48,759
Speaker 2: Question number three, define a good friend.

1943
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 1: I believe that friendship is two or more people who

1944
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:55,040
Speaker 1: agree to grow together, and so a good friend is

1945
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: somebody who we have decided that we're going to grow together.

1946
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:00,639
Speaker 2: Question number four, how do you define a bad friend?

1947
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 1: A friend who's trying to extract rather than grow.

1948
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:07,479
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question we asked this every guest who's

1949
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one

1950
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,680
Speaker 2: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what

1951
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 2: would it be.

1952
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: That I would outlaw the harp? Why? It's silly instrument.

1953
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: It's good for dream sequences. That's about it.

1954
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:22,760
Speaker 2: No way, you're joking right now. Really, you genuinely don't

1955
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 2: like hearts?

1956
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 1: No, I don't like harps. Wow, you can listen to

1957
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: a harp symphony.

1958
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 2: No, I have not, But I like harps.

1959
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:29,639
Speaker 1: I didn't know it's good for dreams.

1960
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:30,639
Speaker 2: They're in Eavan though.

1961
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 1: Exactly it's good for one thing, dream sequences. Yeah, I

1962
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: would outlaw harps.

1963
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 2: I love it, Simon and Okra harps Okra, Wow, that's it.

1964
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 2: It's attacking my Indian heritage. I love it. Simon, You've

1965
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 2: been a joy as ever, and I hope this is

1966
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:52,839
Speaker 2: the first of many appearances on purpose. I really appreciate

1967
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 2: your views as always, and I look forward to these

1968
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:56,640
Speaker 2: conversations and lots more of them.

1969
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 1: So thank you, thanks for having.

1970
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If

1971
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,799
Speaker 2: you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant

1972
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 2: on why discomfort is the key to growth and the

1973
01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 2: strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you

1974
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 2: want to be more and achieve more this year, go

1975
01:35:16,160 --> 01:35:17,360
Speaker 2: check it out right now.

1976
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 3: You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months,

1977
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 3: and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief.

1978
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 3: There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of

1979
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 3: expected it, and you would have been disappointed if it

1980
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 3: didn't happen.