WEBVTT - NVIDIA Vs. The Media ft. GamersNexus 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:03.520 Also media. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.200 Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.320 Zeitron and this week we're joined again by the wonderful 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:23.280 Steve Burke of Gamers. Next us. How are you doing, Steve? 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:24.079 Doing well? 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.080 How about you doing great? See you? We're just at 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:28.120 computext right. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:30.680 Yes, yeah, we're over there for a couple of weeks. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.199 So for the listeners who don't know, because this is 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.559 a fair amount, you don't know every conference. So what 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.720 is computext and what makes it so important? 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.360 Copy text? Is the I would I think it's the 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:46.440 largest computer hardware and computer technology trade show. So that's 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.040 hosted in Taipei every year, and it's it's like a 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.800 much better CES. People may know CS. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.360 And is it more focused on enterprise stuff or consumer stuff? 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:04.200 This year, weirdly, they AI commandeered the entire main hall, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.119 so there were actually there are a lot of pissed 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.520 off consumer hardware manufacturers who were sort of evicted and 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.680 driven out of the main hall and put into the 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:15.840 lesser one with consumer hardware. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.440 What were they even showing with the AI stuff as well? 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.000 I mean one company had an AI computer case? 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.080 Oh how did that? What's the AI do? 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.160 Absolutely no idea sick. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.520 It's so cool that this is absorbed, so it's also 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.600 kind of brutal, that's literally absorbing space. Yes, did you 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:39.640 see anything cool that though, anything you're excited about. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.600 Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff the I mean 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.440 there was some immersion cooling, which is always nice to see, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.400 like where they actually literally immersed the system, you know, 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.760 in fluid for cooling. There was a thermociphon from Nocto, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.640 which is just a really cool use of it's another 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:02.840 cooling technology. Lots of computer case and cooling solution development. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.360 And then on the GPU side, I mean N Video 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.640 sort of buried its fifty sixty launch and then AMD 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.960 more formally announced the information for its ninety sixty XT. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.480 And both of those are sort of the slightly more 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.440 affordable consumer class GPUs. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.840 Yet so in Video also was doing some funny business 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.480 with you recently you did that wonderful video. So walk 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.880 us through what happened that because they tried to big 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.239 dog you so to speak. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.160 Yeah, So, I mean the problem we had with them 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.919 we talked about was for several months there had been 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.320 this I felt sort of pressure from Nvideo with where 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.080 so N Video for contact with people, and Video sends 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.960 out GP review samples. We and other reviewers are not 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.280 entitled to them. That's fine, we can buy them ourselves 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.400 as well, but they send out samples for product reviews. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.720 And in the past, and Video has been in hot 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.400 water for asking another outlet called the hard Run Box 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.560 to I believe the quote was, or the paraphrase was, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.000 change your editorial direction. Yeah, and so that was several 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:11.560 years ago. 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.480 And what did they what did they ask them to 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:14.359 do back then? 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.399 Back then it was seeking more coverage of real time 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.480 rate tracing in video games, which at the time was 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.840 more or less only found in any kind of meaningful 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.720 performance on in video hardware. But also and the reason 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.480 at least we weren't ready to fully do testing for 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.760 real time rate tracing yet was because it just it 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:40.640 wasn't ready yet. I mean, there weren't that many games 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:40.880 with it. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.160 You couldn't really test it because you couldn't use it. 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.280 Yeah, I mean they launched and if I remember correctly, 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.360 there were actually zero games that supported this technology and 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.160 the only thing available were sort of tech demos. And 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.200 so anyway that that was what they wanted, then they 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.600 kind of went away, didn't That's at least as far 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.240 as we know, publicly didn't try to push reviewers in 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.040 a particular direction with their narrative or their editorial style. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.640 And then over the last several months we were getting 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:16.080 this pressure of basically so we do a bunch of 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.719 interviews with engineers and technical people at Nvidia, and I 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.440 felt they were starting to use that as a lever 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.000 to be like, oh, it sure seems like you like 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.200 talking to the thermal engineers. It'd be a shame of 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:29.000 something happened. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.599 And you did that very long one over within video, right, 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.479 you went and kind of looked at how some with 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.120 stuff worked. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.279 Yeah, yeah, we did. I mean they're great educational content. 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.040 The engineers are awesome, and I've spent years working with 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.560 mostly people who are in different departments or don't work 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.080 there anymore to get in video on the same page 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.040 where I'm like, look, we're not looking for a marketing 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.960 puff piece. We're looking for actual engineers who just want 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.359 to talk about the stuff they make and people can 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.000 learn about it. But it's not like, obviously, yes, it 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.560 can support the problem act by nature of if it's 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.120 good and the engineers explain it well, then people will 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.479 like it. But the objective is not just like come 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.120 on our show and use us as a platform to 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.279 sell things. We want engineers, not marketers. Yeah, and so 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:18.080 that was great. And the like I said, lever that 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.560 it became was they wanted more in video on more 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.040 coverage of this thing called MFG, which is multi frame generation, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.559 which is something that Jensen Huan, the CEO, talks about 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.360 on stage as being part of their technology suite that 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:42.120 is a big surprise AI accelerated that effectively multiplies the 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:47.000 frame rate to be used as a smoothing technology. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.240 So it's different. Is this different to like DLSS and 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.000 things like that, or is that. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.000 It is part of the DLSS or the Deep Learned 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.440 Super Sampling Technology suite. So it's sort of it's it's 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.520 almost like a subset of DLSS. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.719 Right, and so it basically just looks better at higher resolution. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.440 It fills in the frames. I'm guessing just trying to simplify. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.279 Yeah, So yes, the simplest version of it is MFG 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:19.320 sort of interpolates frames, so it's able to add in 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.320 or insert additional effectively artificial or generated frames if you're 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.320 trying to be charitable with it, that are not literally 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.000 built by the game engine, and so the GPU is 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.640 working with its own software to construct these frames and 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.760 construct pixels based on what it thinks is going to 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.839 happen next. And we've actually tested it and there's situations 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.320 where it's not bad. There's situations where it's awful, like 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:49.119 with any technology. But what it does is on a chart, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.200 if you just look at the number that comes out 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.680 the so called frame rate or the amount of frames 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.800 in a given period of time, that looks higher with 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:03.839 this technology, but it's not measuring the same thing as 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.000 something without this technology. So it's effectively, you know, you're 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:12.800 comparing apples and oranges if you try to put real 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.040 frames that are rendered in the traditional way up against 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:21.080 these generated AI frames that are effectively guessing at what 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:21.840 they should look. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.560 Like, and do they look bad as well? 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.320 Like they can they can look really bad. I mean 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.120 we've done some testing where in some of the games 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:34.080 it's just like text for example, will will get completely 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.480 garbled text on screen interface interface issues will draw the 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.239 interface in the wrong area. You could have really. 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.200 Sanely bad for like any RPG of any kind or 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:48.880 any kind of like Twitch I own. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:50.000 Yeah, it feels like. 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.640 Anything you'd be doing EVA would be ruined by that. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.680 Yeah, so there's scenarios where it works, Okay, But the 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.240 RPG example you brought up, so Final Fantasy was one 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.960 of the games we test did where there's just areas. 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:04.960 I mean, it just I personally would turn it off. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.840 It looks worse and I'd rather have a lower quote 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:12.360 unquote frame rate than have this sort of potential blurry 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:13.200 mess every now and then. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.760 So strange low qualities. Well, it's just a very strange 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:18.800 thing to push out the door. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.120 Yeah, and the you know, I think sort of finished 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:28.440 the editorial narrative. They know, I mean, it's fine, but 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.120 I'll finish that first and I'll come back to your 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.040 account you just make because that's also interesting. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:33.000 But on the. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:37.160 Editorial side, they wanted more coverage of MFG, and we 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.720 disagreed from an objective standpoint. You know, I kind of 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.000 made the case of them several times, over several calls, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.600 over several months of why we think it It just 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:54.040 doesn't belong on the same charts as normal benchmarking, normal 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.920 objective testing, and so there was, Yeah, there's just a disagreement, 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.640 which is fine. The problem came in when I felt 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.720 repeatedly on various calls with the N Video people that 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.560 they were almost sort of holding hostage the idea of 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.520 working with engineers again, where it's well, the way we're 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.400 able to make this happen is by you covering things 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.199 like MFG. You know, sort of that type of conversation. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.240 Yeah, that's so. And they mentioned something about like budgets 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:25.480 in the video. 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.040 I remember, yeah, I mean there was like discussion of 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.120 one of the times specifically, the statement was that this 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.800 is how we can secure budget for these types of things, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.720 and like to be clear for listeners, we don't take 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:46.320 money for interviews. Yeah yeah, And in fact, I've paid 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.080 now over five figures to visit N Video on numerous 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.079 occasions for said interviews. Personally, like I'm paid. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.120 And I can say this from the PR side, and 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.840 not working not work with A video or anyone associated 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.120 five all that. It's like, no one talks about budgets. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.000 No one is like, oh I can't visit a journalist 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.840 due to budget, and certainly not in Video, a company 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.520 that had thirty nine billion dollars I believe in revenue 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.120 just in the data cent a portion. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.480 Of classical multi trillion dollar marketing cap. I think if 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.960 I try to take Devil's advocate at maybe there's some 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.120 internal budgeting whatever, like the marketing department needs to budget 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.720 time from the engineering department or something. But we're talking 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:36.160 like a couple hours of time max normally, you know, yeah, 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.200 especially when I'm traveling to them. So it just seemed 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.760 like I don't know it. I didn't buy it. And 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:49.959 also that was only one of the numerous UH calls, 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.080 you know, like that the defensible reason for them changed. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:55.959 It felt like each time where it's like, oh, let's 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.360 try this angle, let's try this angle. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.199 So did they end up blocking you? They just how 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.840 did that situation resolve itself? 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.720 I have not spoken with anyone there since we posted 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.000 our video talking about it. And part of the challenge 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.800 with posting that video is, you know, it's like, the 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:20.240 first couple of times this came up, I assumed that 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.080 it was just sort of okay, maybe the guy phrased 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:25.800 it ron you know, I've worked with these people for 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.200 a while and maybe just came out wrong. After a 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.080 couple of times, I did call one of my reps 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.280 after the meeting where they kind of pushed this, you know, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.040 you testing this technology that you think is not appropriate 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.600 to share on charts with competitors. That's how we get 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:46.120 you these interviews. I called a rep and said, you know, hey, this, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.280 if you guys say this to people, this is going 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.160 to be taken the wrong way. And like, I'm still 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:56.800 assuming it's not meant this way. But but if I 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.600 hear this again, right, like it's I'm did I have 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.120 to start assuming it's it's the way it sounds. And 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.920 it did come up again. And part of the challenge 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.440 with making the video we made was, you know, we 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.559 want to blow the whistle on it in case other 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.840 people are facing that pressure, and also in case consumers 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.240 are watching or reading content which may be influenced without 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.080 their knowledge. The problem is, I think en video may 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:25.079 now be in a situation where let's just assume everybody 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.439 makes up and it's fine. At some point, I don't 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.439 know that they will ever be able to put an 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.319 engineer on cam RA any time of the near future 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.840 with anybody without the audience questioning it. And for good reason, 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.080 because that was what we felt was being used as 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.280 the lever against us. Yeah, and so it's just kind 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.720 of I don't know. We tried to, you know, I 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.040 explained to them several times why this is a problem 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.400 and why the phrasing is a problem, and the more 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:55.640 you hear it, the more it's like, Okay, I mean 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.680 at some point, like I think you're saying what it 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.720 sounds like you're saying, I'm going to stop. 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:02.880 Yeah, it's good that you did it, though, because it's 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.120 GM's got over a million subscribers, so who knows what 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.080 they're doing too much smaller outlets as well. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.240 Yeah, I mean, and that's what I'm really concerned about 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:16.880 is I've had conversations with Nvidia in the past that 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.160 will probably get into in a future video, but about 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.720 their strategy for newer creators, and I don't like what 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.800 I've heard. I mean, it sounds very much like we're 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.640 a're gonna sort of try and shape these newer creators. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.560 And you know, I think the problem is as especially 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.800 old guard media, as in people like OG's before US 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:43.160 retire or move to other industries, there's openings to change 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.000 how media interfaces with these companies in general, because you've 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:51.319 got newer people who don't have the historical background with 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.760 these companies to know what to expect, and so it's 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.680 easier to kind of slowly creep that goalpost where it's 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.000 it's less independence and it's more marketing arm of the company. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.199 And that's what I'm really worried about, is if they 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.800 get in any of these companies with newer creators early 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:13.080 and are able to change the expectancy of the relationship, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.400 so change it from independent reviewer analyzing large companies device 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.080 into more of a hey, we're all friends, we're all 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.640 working together to try and benefit the consumer. When if 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.920 you're talking about a multi trillion dollar company that their 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.640 motives are far different from like the guy in his 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:34.160 bedroom who's trying to do hardware reviews. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.479 It's just so weird as well, because they're already so successful. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.320 Is this history? It sounds like historically in Vidia has 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.800 been a bit draconian like this, though not necessarily pressuring 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:50.360 in this way. 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.400 I mean, I certainly think and Vidia is one of 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:58.240 the most vindictive companies in the space. They the stories 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.440 we've heard and told in some instance of their partners, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:06.520 not reviewers, but actual business partners like board vendors, people 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.440 who make the video cards that the Nvidio GPS go on. 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:15.520 Those stories would seem to indicate a sort of vindictiveness 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:21.360 can give an example, Yeah, allocation. So GPU allocation is 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:27.560 the concept of how many of a high demand GPU 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.920 can you, as a partner get to then attached to 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.120 a product to then sell to a consumer. And there's 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:35.960 a limited amount of these because they're going to sell 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:41.600 one hundred percent of them, And allocation is typically measured 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:45.280 by percent, So company A might get twenty five percent, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.680 Company B might get five percent of the GPU supply 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.840 whatever that is. And that allocation, we've been told in 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.160 the past, has been used also as sort of a lever. 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.480 And so an example would be back in the EVGA days, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.360 which Evga sort of famously. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.160 That was a graphics called company. 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.840 Correct. Yeah, they they were in video's number one partner, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.520 and they were so Nvidio favored that they only made 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.160 Nvidia video cards. They did not work with any competitors, right, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.560 and they famously cut that relationship publicly and we ran 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.720 a story about that. But one of the things that 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:27.400 they were unhappy about was Nvidia slowly tightening the screws, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.120 which is a direct quote from an Nvidia pm I 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:37.760 spoke to one. Slowly tightening the tight end the screws 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:42.000 is the quote, but on what the partners were allowed 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.080 to do with their products, and slowly over time they're 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:47.640 losing some of this creative freedom. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.160 What did you say, they lose creative freedom? Like, what 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.280 are they being constrained to do? 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.000 One that's public is we did an interview with a 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.800 famous over clocker who used to work for or EVGA. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.960 Kingpin is his username and his name is on video 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.119 cards that are world famous. We did a video with 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.240 him and he talked about how he wanted to add 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.560 two power connectors to a card to basically make it 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.720 more fun to overclock with for consumers. And so it'd 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.840 be to be able to pull more power, and it 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.520 would also be able to do so safer because the 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.359 current power connector has this issue of burning and catching 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.720 on fire sometimes, right, so, and so he wanted to 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.600 do two of them to kind of resolve some of that. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.760 And in the public discussion we had with Kingpin and 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:44.359 the video he said paraphrasing, but the conversation was he 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.639 said they wouldn't allow it, or they restricted it or 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:48.919 something like that, And I said who is they? And 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.359 he said they, Yeah, like we we there was only 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.560 one day there could. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.800 Be who could it be? 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.399 Yeah, But there's plenty of examples like that, where the 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:05.720 another one would be a couple generations ago. The cheaper cards, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.800 like the two hundred three hundred dollars models they were 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.040 those models were difficult for the partners to actually make 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.560 and still make any money. And so there were times 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.440 where we were told about how this MSRP level video card, 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.360 meaning the number that in video says is the MSRP, 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.120 that would only exist for a fixed period of time 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.560 because it was simply impossible to afford to make it. 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.320 But and Video really wanted them to exist at this 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.879 certain MSRP. It allows them to advertise a lower price, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.560 and so they're pushed to make these cards that allows 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.800 them to potentially get things like more access to allocation 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.800 or you know whatever privilege they may get. 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.760 So on a much larger level, what do you think 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.760 is going on within Video as a company right now? 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.159 I'm not asking for stock analysis like that, totally not that, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.800 but just as a company that both makes can zumographics 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:05.800 cards and undepinds whatever the AI thing is, how like, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:07.440 what do you think is going on there right now? 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:15.120 I think there's definitely a focus on AI to try 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.680 and get money. I mean, there's a Jensen Juan was 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.480 in an interview I don't know last year sometime, I think, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.160 or earlier this year, and made a coment about how 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.800 they use AI to write their own driver software now 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.159 or their own software or something like that. And you 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.800 know this is this is the number one focus. It's 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.000 what they're making the most I guess investor money on, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.040 so they're focused on it. The concern I have is 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.920 it's one thing to sort of let the consumer hardware 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:59.000 side dwindle or get less competitive effort. It's another thing too, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.880 in my opinion, and sort of drag the entire industry 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.879 down with it as they shift focus to the higher 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.760 revenue AI side. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.280 Right when you say drag them down, how do you mean? 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:15.359 I mean things like trying to in my opinion, control 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.840 the media narrative and shape it like that. That to 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.800 me goes beyond Okay, we don't care much about consumer 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.960 We're going to focus on making money with AI. That 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:30.000 gets into we are going to actively damage the credibility 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.640 of independent media and also potentially harm consumers who are 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:39.439 influenced by that media, which has been shaped with a 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.080 certain you know, corporate narrative to push. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:43.480 And that's my concern. 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.440 So that's that's the That's why I draw the distinction 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.040 between you. As we said in our video, it's if 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.040 you want to just focus on AI and if they 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.480 want to just sell all the GPUs to big enterprise companies, 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.679 go for it, but you know, don't screw all the 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.399 rest of us over at the same time. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.399 And do you think that they're abandoning consumer or is 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.280 it just they are they are focusing on the shiny 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:07.160 object of the day. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:15.359 I I don't know Jensen Juan personally my read on him, though, 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.600 I feel like it's unlikely he would want to abandon 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.480 something he already has, right, even if it's only out 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.840 of maybe sort of pride, and so I don't think 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.199 they'll abandon it. I do think they're focusing on AI. 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.600 It's just that, uh I don't. I mean, they have 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.560 like ninety two percent market share and consumer GPUs now 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.560 according to John Petty Research. So it's just like they can. 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.479 It's a monopoly. I mean, that's like, it's just like, 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:48.199 this is what monopolies look like. 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:50.800 Well, let's it feel I would say there was an 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.080 opportunity for someone to come in. But based on everything 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:56.760 you've shown with like AMD recently, even on the low end. 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.399 It just it doesn't feel it almost feels like consumer 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.560 graphics up being not treated with the respect they deserve, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.359 despite PC gaming being huge industry and so on and 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:07.879 so forth. 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.760 Yeah, it's a massive industry and prosumer too. I mean 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.760 even just non AI use cases include people who edit 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:19.080 videos or make movies or do three D animations. Yeah, 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.720 I think Intel's a good barometer here because Intel decided 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.440 to get into consumer GPU, and they're new to it, 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.080 and they've had a hell of a time. They're doing 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.080 much better now with this current generation. But one of 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.600 the quotes from an Intel person I spoke with previously 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.240 to us was for their last generation was we should 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.760 be wrapping these with money when we saw them, because 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:46.080 they were just they were basically subsidizing the buildout of 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:51.119 this new division, this GPU division, by undercutting prices from 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:53.000 competitors to just try and get their foot in the 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.160 door with what at the time was a lesser product. 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.000 And so yeah, I think they're a good broader because 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.360 if you want to be first of all, to have 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:09.360 a fab a fabrication facility costs these days potentially tens 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.040 of billions of dollars in years to build so a 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.159 new vendor would have to be fabless like Nvidia and 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:22.240