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Speaker 1: Most of my dreams are about me against a ticking clock.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to make a plane. I'm responsible for

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Speaker 1: packing my entire family. We have to get out of here.

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Speaker 1: I'm folding clothes that are the size of a mountain.

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Speaker 2: Now, Katie, tell them about your dreams. Oh, that is

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Speaker 2: your dreams. That sounds a lot like real life.

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Speaker 3: You think I'm processing what I feel like all day?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very similar.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm Katie Low's and I'm a dreamer, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm Adam Shapiro, and I am living my dream.

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Speaker 2: Because I get to host the podcast with you.

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Speaker 3: Katie, Ah Adam.

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Speaker 4: This is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from

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Speaker 4: iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm.

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Speaker 3: This episode is about sleep and dreams.

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Speaker 4: We've been keeping dream journals and we're logging our dreams

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Speaker 4: from the night before.

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Speaker 1: Today is the day when we're going to talk to

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Speaker 1: the experts about dreams. I'm dying to know. How's your

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Speaker 1: dream journal? Looking for today's discussion.

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Speaker 2: It's a little weird.

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Speaker 1: We've been keeping dream journals for about a month now,

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Speaker 1: and according to psychology experts, there are a number of

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Speaker 1: benefits to keeping a dream journal.

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Speaker 3: For starters.

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Speaker 1: It can help you be more creative and think outside

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Speaker 1: the box when you're awake. So I'm super curious to

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Speaker 1: hear about your overall experience keeping a dream journal. Did

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Speaker 1: it teach you anything surprising about yourself?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, I've always just in general

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Speaker 4: thought I was somebody that couldn't remember their dreams.

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Speaker 1: I found the same thing. And I also found in

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Speaker 1: keeping our dream journals that I have like recurring elements

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Speaker 1: in my dreams. I can't wait to read your dream journal.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to read your dream journal.

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Speaker 1: All listening. Full disclosure, we haven't seen each other's dream journals.

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Speaker 2: As far as you know, really well, we have the

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Speaker 2: same password. I'm joking. I'm not going to read your

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Speaker 2: dream journal. I dodn't know your dream journal.

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Speaker 4: This is such a fascinating topic, and Katie and I

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Speaker 4: cannot wait to hear what our guests have to say

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Speaker 4: about dreams in sleep.

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Speaker 1: To help us figure out what dreams are and why

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Speaker 1: we have them. We are joined today by doctor Robert Stickgold,

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Speaker 1: co author with his colleague Anthony Zadra of the book

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Speaker 1: When Brain's Dream. He's done groundbreaking research into the links

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Speaker 1: between dreams and memory consolidation and learning. He's a professor

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Speaker 1: of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and director of the

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Speaker 1: Center for Sleep and Cognition at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical

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Speaker 1: Center in Boston.

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Speaker 4: And we're looking forward to decoding the often confusing content

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Speaker 4: of our dreams with Justina. Lastly, Justina is the author

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Speaker 4: of several books, including Wake Up to Your Dreams, Transform

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Speaker 4: Your Relationship's, career, and Health While You Sleep. She is

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Speaker 4: also the founder of the Institute for Dream Studies. Welcome Justina. Yes,

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Speaker 4: before we talk about specific dreams, Bob, what is happening

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Speaker 4: in our bodies and especially in our brains when we're dreaming.

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Speaker 5: Well, you're going to love this answer. We don't really know.

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Speaker 5: We know it's different than your brain, for example, when

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Speaker 5: you're in rem sleep or rapid eye movements sleep, when

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Speaker 5: you have your most intense dreams. But to be clear, dreaming,

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Speaker 5: like consciousness when we're awake, is still a mystery. We

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Speaker 5: can't see it in our brains. When I talk to

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Speaker 5: my students, I always stun them by saying, there have

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Speaker 5: been no scientific experiments that have proven that humans are conscious.

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Speaker 5: I can tell you how the brain changes and that

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Speaker 5: must have something to do with why dreaming happens. But

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Speaker 5: we don't know where consciousness, including dreaming, comes from. So

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Speaker 5: what happens in your brain? While some areas turn off,

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Speaker 5: most notably an ugly name dorsal lateral prefrontal cortext.

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Speaker 1: That Katie say that three times fast, Katie.

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Speaker 4: I think I had to say that in the show

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Speaker 4: once when I was a brain surgeon.

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Speaker 2: I sounded like I knew what I was talking about.

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Speaker 5: It's a region of your brain that's used when you're

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Speaker 5: making decisions. It's executive control, it's impulse inhibition, and when

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Speaker 5: you go into rem sleep that shuts off. So all

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Speaker 5: of those processes are unavailable to the dreaming brain, which

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Speaker 5: is probably why we act irrationally and don't feel like

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Speaker 5: we're in control. We lose connections between but a structure

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Speaker 5: called the hippocampus, which is critical for memory formation and

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Speaker 5: the rest of our brain, so that when we're dreaming,

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Speaker 5: we can't call up a recent memory and actually remember it.

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Speaker 3: It's really bananas wow.

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Speaker 5: And then on the flip side, the emotional system in

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Speaker 5: the brain, the limbic segment of the brain that's ramped

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Speaker 5: up all the emotional structures in the brain seem to

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Speaker 5: go into overdrive, which is probably why our dreams tend

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Speaker 5: to be so emotional. But you'll notice I'm always saying,

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Speaker 5: which is probably why, because we just don't know how

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Speaker 5: to test these things. We don't know how to see consciousness.

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Speaker 5: We cannot see dreaming in the brain if we've got

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Speaker 5: two hundred and fifty electrodes on their brain, if we've

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Speaker 5: got them in a fMRI scanner, where you can say, oh, oh, oh, now,

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Speaker 5: now there's a seventy percent chance that she's dreaming, But

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Speaker 5: we can't say, look at that she's dreaming.

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Speaker 1: Justina, you are considered a dream expert and founded the

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Speaker 1: Institute for Dream Studies. I'm so curious to hear your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on why we dream, what purpose to dream serve?

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Speaker 6: Oh my goodness, for me, there are many purposes on

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Speaker 6: a personal level, and the people that I work with,

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Speaker 6: we advance in our consciousness and our ability to problem solve,

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Speaker 6: and we can see things more clearly that we can't

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Speaker 6: see very well in our waking lives. I say that

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Speaker 6: dreams are like for me, it's a twenty four to

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Speaker 6: seven in our therapist comes free. You don't have to

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Speaker 6: set up an appointment nothing, you know, you just have

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Speaker 6: to pay attention, which is really hard for people. But

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Speaker 6: for many of the reasons that Bob was talking about,

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Speaker 6: you know that we are not wired to remember our dreams,

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Speaker 6: so we have to make special effort. The reason I

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Speaker 6: pay attention to my dreams is because it makes a

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Speaker 6: huge difference in my life and a huge difference in

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Speaker 6: my relationship with other people.

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Speaker 1: And Bob, what would you say, why scientifically do we dream?

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Speaker 5: So you know, the word why is one of those

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Speaker 5: words that can be spun seven different ways. And I

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Speaker 5: think just you know, what you have said about the

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Speaker 5: way you and I think, myself and others can and

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Speaker 5: do use our dreams when we remember them is spot on.

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Speaker 5: But I would argue as a as a sort of

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Speaker 5: total biologist. While we're sleeping, our brain is working full time.

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Speaker 5: It is spending eight hours processing all the memories that

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Speaker 5: are formed during the day. For every two hours we

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Speaker 5: spend a week taking in new information, it takes an

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Speaker 5: hour to process two hours of input. We don't remember

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Speaker 5: more than maybe, if you're really good at a ten

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Speaker 5: or fifteen percent of our dreams, and we get these

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Speaker 5: fleeting moments that we remember the are these whole long

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Speaker 5: dreams that we remember, but still there are a small

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Speaker 5: fraction of that night. And so Tony Zadro and I

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Speaker 5: recently came out with a book called When Brains Dream,

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Speaker 5: in which we put forward this next up model of dreaming,

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Speaker 5: which says that the biological function of dreaming is network

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Speaker 5: exploration to understand possibilities. We know that when we're asleep,

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Speaker 5: and especially in rem sleep, our brains connections are subtly manipulated,

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Speaker 5: so it's much easier for the brain to find sort

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Speaker 5: of unusual, distant weak connections between ideas. So you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean I So you know, I'm driving home from

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Speaker 5: work and some guy runs the stop sign and almost

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Speaker 5: crashes into me. In that night, I dreamed that I'm

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Speaker 5: at an amusement park on bumper cars. Sure, which makes

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Speaker 5: perfect sense, yes, but really doesn't speak much to the

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Speaker 5: issue of what happened yesterday. I'm just in the bumper

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Speaker 5: car was my son Adam, who's just having a great time,

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Speaker 5: and I'm saying this isn't fun. I don't want to

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Speaker 5: be here at all, you know. So there's a whole

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Speaker 5: other side of the story. How do we find the

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Speaker 5: meaning of all of that. That takes a lot of time,

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Speaker 5: and that's what our brain is doing.

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Speaker 3: Justina.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know with what you do, tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the story about how you found

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Speaker 1: your way into your field of dream studies.

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Speaker 6: You know I had as a child. I loved my

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Speaker 6: dream so it was very creative and I loved them,

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Speaker 6: but I had nobody in my family to talk to

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Speaker 6: about my dreams. It was more like, let's talk about

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Speaker 6: something important now, you know, and that's all make believe

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Speaker 6: and everything. So when I realized that these could impact

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Speaker 6: my life, I joined a dream group.

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Speaker 1: That is absolutely fascinating. So it's a group of people

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Speaker 1: who get together and talk about their dreams.

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Speaker 3: Right, I want to join one?

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Speaker 2: I would I don't know. I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: for me. I mean, if there's wine.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. And with the very first dream that I shared,

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Speaker 6: my life changed. I had been to counseling, I had

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Speaker 6: done all kinds of things, but I had never seen

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Speaker 6: it from the perspective of my dream and it was

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Speaker 6: it was amazing. And so with each dream I shared,

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Speaker 6: it just was more and more of an open winda

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Speaker 6: to who Justina was. Authentically. I had been told so

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Speaker 6: many different stories throughout my life of who I was.

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Speaker 6: None of them felt like me, but I believed it

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Speaker 6: because there are adults in your life telling you this,

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Speaker 6: this is you, this is what you know, what you're

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Speaker 6: good at or what you're bad at, or this is

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Speaker 6: what you deserve or not deserve, and this.

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Speaker 5: Is who you're going to be when you grow up.

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Speaker 1: Yes, how do you help people understand their dreams?

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Speaker 6: Well, a mato for dream synergy is dreams plus action

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Speaker 6: equals change because the dreams come to us naturally every night,

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Speaker 6: like Bob said, but we have to provide the action

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Speaker 6: as individuals. Katie, you have all of your life experiences, Adam,

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Speaker 6: you do, and they are going to be used. All

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Speaker 6: of those life experiences to create and manufacture your dream.

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Speaker 6: If I start looking at your dream without you and

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Speaker 6: tell you what that means, then guess who's that's about.

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Speaker 6: That's about me. And that's why we cannot interpret other

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Speaker 6: people's dreams.

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Speaker 7: Thank you, because we do not have the ability to

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Speaker 7: be the other person. We have to put our paper

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Speaker 7: beside our bed to record our dreams because we're not remembering.

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Speaker 7: We have to pay attention to that and learn that

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Speaker 7: metaphorical language of.

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Speaker 1: Dreams, Right, and Bob, do you have you found in

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Speaker 1: your research a bunch of differentiation between men and women

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Speaker 1: in dreaming and specifically sex dreams.

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Speaker 5: I mean, men tend to sleep with in their dreams,

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Speaker 5: tend to sleep with women they don't know, women tend

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Speaker 5: to sleep with men that they do know. I did

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Speaker 5: one study looking at differences between men and women, mostly

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Speaker 5: in the emotions that they express in their dreams, and

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Speaker 5: there were surprisingly few. I had thought we would find

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Speaker 5: that men would be more angry in their dreams and

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Speaker 5: women would be more fearful in their dreams, but the

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Speaker 5: numbers were identical between men and women for both of those.

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Speaker 6: Well, sex dreams really affect so many people, and I've

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Speaker 6: seen people's lives. The marriage is shaken apart because recurring

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Speaker 6: dream of having sex with another partner, and it really

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Speaker 6: upset the spouse. Of course, and once you look at

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Speaker 6: that in dreams again we have to think of metaphorical language.

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Speaker 6: So as an example, this person came in to me

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Speaker 6: and had their spouse had had a lot of these dreams.

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Speaker 6: So then we talked to the spouse, I ask, what

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Speaker 6: does this ex girlfriend represent to you? Three words and so,

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Speaker 6: just to be brief say, the three words were creative, fun,

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Speaker 6: and adventuresome. And so then you think about what part

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Speaker 6: of you is like that, and this particular person said,

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Speaker 6: there isn't a part. It used to be that way

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Speaker 6: when I was in college, but I do not have

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Speaker 6: a bit of that anymore. What the person was hungering

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Speaker 6: for was having an eimate relationship with that part of himself.

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Speaker 6: So if we look at characters as aspects of ourselves,

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Speaker 6: we have a broader and a better perspective of the

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Speaker 6: parts of ourselves that are playing and reacting to ours

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Speaker 6: back and forth. So characters are so much fun and

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Speaker 6: dreams because we start seeing ourselves in new ways.

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Speaker 4: Oh there's so much more I want to find out,

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Speaker 4: but let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 3: You're not dreaming.

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Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is back and we're talking about sleep and

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Speaker 1: dreams with Justina. Lastly from the Institute for Dream Studies

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Speaker 1: and Sleep researcher Robert Stickl. So, Adam and I have

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Speaker 1: been asked to keep journal about our dreams since we've

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Speaker 1: been preparing for this episode. Bob, Justina, I think Adam

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Speaker 1: and I would love to get your help better understanding

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Speaker 1: our dreams.

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Speaker 2: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: So, Adam, do you want to start us off and

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Speaker 1: share one of your favorites?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I will say so.

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Speaker 4: Many of my dreams seem to have a common theme

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Speaker 4: of me being a fish out of water and having

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Speaker 4: no idea how to handle the situation I'm in the

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Speaker 4: middle of. The dream took place at a health retreat.

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Speaker 4: The first night everyone had to eat socks.

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Speaker 6: Oh do you remember more?

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Speaker 2: Or I do?

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Speaker 4: Remember that we were staying at my grandmother's house and

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Speaker 4: that it was very cult like, especially about the socks.

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Speaker 4: I just don't understand how I'm going to eat these

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Speaker 4: and get them down.

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Speaker 6: The first question that I always ask the dreamer is

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Speaker 6: how are you feeling? I'm all about emotions, and Bob

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Speaker 6: mentioned about the emotions in the dream and that part

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Speaker 6: of the brain being available to us the mad, sad, glad,

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Speaker 6: or afraid. If we can narrow our emotions down to that,

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Speaker 6: then we can take some action. But how were you feeling?

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Speaker 6: If I ask you mad, sad, glad or afraid.

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Speaker 2: During the dream or talking about it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, during the dream afraid?

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Speaker 6: Afraid?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably?

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Speaker 6: And do you know what you are afraid of?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Good question.

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Speaker 4: I was afraid that I was going to choke on

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Speaker 4: the socks, for sure, but I always I.

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Speaker 1: Could never do your job, Justina, or I would be

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Speaker 1: laughing at everyone.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't well.

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Speaker 4: And I think I was also just sort of afraid

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Speaker 4: of where this was all going.

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Speaker 2: You know, what was the point of this retreat?

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Speaker 5: Was there confusion in there too?

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Speaker 4: Yes, lots of confusion. I was sort of baffled because.

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Speaker 6: I feel like confusion is one of the hurdles that

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Speaker 6: we have to get over, because confusion leads us to

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Speaker 6: more confusion. And I started realizing this with the more

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Speaker 6: people I worked with, that it is not a well

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Speaker 6: defined emotion. It's not an emotion at all. We get

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Speaker 6: confused because I'm afraid and I don't know what's coming next.

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Speaker 6: Whereas if I say I'm afraid, right, what am I

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Speaker 6: afraid of?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 6: I'm afraid of choking on the socks? The next thing,

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Speaker 6: if it were my dream, is that I would want

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Speaker 6: to find out is what is that? What are the

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Speaker 6: socks representing to me? So if you gave me three

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Speaker 6: three descriptive words of socks, what are they dry?

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Speaker 2: I would say they are stretchy and fluffy, fluffy?

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Speaker 6: And what purpose would you say they they serve.

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Speaker 4: Right, they keep your feet healthy and they keep it

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Speaker 4: from they protect your feet from you know, well, Katie's

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Speaker 4: feeling this right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, are the socks connected to Adam has

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Speaker 1: been dealing with plantar fasci itis for months and he's

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Speaker 1: been dealing with so many like different variations of sock

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Speaker 1: and feet things to protect his foot.

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Speaker 2: But it could also be metaphorical.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and you know where you were. What kind of

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Speaker 6: retreat was it? That was the first thing I heard?

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Speaker 2: Oh right, it was like a health and fitness retreat.

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Speaker 6: Health and fitness, yes retreat. And so the next thing

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Speaker 6: that I'm really interested in is the grandmother, right, So

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Speaker 6: what are the things that you associate with your grandmother's house?

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Speaker 6: Just what first comes.

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Speaker 2: To my Yeah, liked quiet.

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Speaker 6: Which would represent for me a really boost to my

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Speaker 6: health if I'm in a sunny, quiet, relaxing place maybe

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Speaker 6: and it would be real opposite from my daily life. Right. Oh,

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Speaker 6: remember how it was at grandmother's house. Maybe I need

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Speaker 6: more of this now.

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Speaker 4: Right, And I'm being taken away by this sort of

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Speaker 4: cult like health retreat that's forcing me to right, oh,

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Speaker 4: interesting to sort of eat the thing that protects my

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Speaker 4: feet from her getting.

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Speaker 6: So to think of it as not sucks at all,

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Speaker 6: but the metaphorical language of a sock to me represents

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Speaker 6: protection and it's for me. I've had several dreams where

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Speaker 6: the protection was for I realized my soul soo ul

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Speaker 6: instead of sol e. Dreams love that where they shift.

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Speaker 2: Wow, we are brilliant people.

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Speaker 6: I know. That's what. I can't believe it.

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Speaker 4: I am so much smarter in my dreams than I

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Speaker 4: am in my waking life.

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Speaker 6: We all are. That is highest intelligence because we are

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Speaker 6: not confused by other things that we've been told and

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Speaker 6: that we've learned, and our belief system. So the belief

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Speaker 6: gets in the way.

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Speaker 4: Bob, I wanted to ask, I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 4: that the details of the dream are the details of

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Speaker 4: a dream more significant than the emotions? What does the

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Speaker 4: research say about that?

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Speaker 5: I don't think the research has anything to say about that.

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Speaker 5: About what's important, Christina, that was a beautiful presentation and

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Speaker 5: I was really impressed by it. And it's working on metaphor,

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Speaker 5: and it's working on weak associations that have been somehow

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Speaker 5: pulled together. I mean that, as Justina points out, becomes

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Speaker 5: useful but even if you don't remember the dream, you're

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Speaker 5: gonna wake up and you're gonna say, I need to

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Speaker 5: do something about my.

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Speaker 6: Feet, right, don't take anything likely. I have in the

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Speaker 6: thousands and thousands of dreams that I've worked with with people,

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Speaker 6: I have never found one thing in the dream that

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Speaker 6: did not have significance. And when you say, oh, I'm

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Speaker 6: so smart to be able to create that, even though

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Speaker 6: I'd majored in art all of these things, it was

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Speaker 6: my dreams that showed me that I am a creative person.

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Speaker 6: And I believe we all have that capability.

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Speaker 2: Katie, what about your dream? Well, we got to get

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Speaker 2: to yours.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah, I want to hear. So

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Speaker 1: here's my dream. My family and I are in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: We're in a boat, like a really lovely fishing boat,

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Speaker 1: those ones that have the rods sticking out and on

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Speaker 1: the white captain's leather fancy chair, so this is like

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Speaker 1: a nice boat. Is the director of my son's nursery school.

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Speaker 1: He's driving the fishing boat. There are huge swells, and

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Speaker 1: a hurricane is in the distance and is touching down

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Speaker 1: in the water. It's the hurricane was so clear. I

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Speaker 1: am freaking out and the director is so calm in

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Speaker 1: a T shirt, lounging back in his captain leather white chair.

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Speaker 4: This is the most Katie dream I've ever I could

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Speaker 4: ever like create on my own.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't write a more Katie dream than this.

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Speaker 6: So Katie tell us about Mexico. Oh, what does that

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Speaker 6: represent for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, we had just gone on a family vacation there, and.

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Speaker 6: What was that like? Like great anxiety producing, relaxed anxiety producing?

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Speaker 5: Did you ever feel like you weren't in control and

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Speaker 5: people who were in control did not know what they

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Speaker 5: were doing?

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Speaker 1: I felt very out of control the whole time.

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Speaker 6: And this guy give us three adjectives.

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Speaker 1: He's in his late seventies and he's one of the

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Speaker 1: leading experts on early childhood development.

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Speaker 3: He's really really confident.

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Speaker 1: You know, you trust him, but he's also very opinionated,

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Speaker 1: and it's his way or the highway.

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Speaker 6: And I have two ways that I can be. Now,

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Speaker 6: do you know that part of yourself that is well

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Speaker 6: known in their field? Yes, they are confident.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can be that way in some fields.

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Speaker 6: So sure, Because we're always balancing these aspects of ourselves,

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Speaker 6: it seems like, would you rather be that person. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 6: and now to learn to access that. And I love

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Speaker 6: that description of the white chair. I would draw that.

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Speaker 6: I would buy one and put it in my house

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Speaker 6: and sit in it to remind myself that in this

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Speaker 6: chair here is that part of myself.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, yeah, grounded, calm, unaffected, like not

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Speaker 1: easily thrown around by life's waves and tornadoes.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, Adam, are you losing your mind right now?

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Speaker 3: And how this has been nailed? Bob? What do you

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Speaker 3: think did dreams change as we age?

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Speaker 5: As we get older, dreams tend to get more pleasant,

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Speaker 5: And we don't know whether that's biology talking to us

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Speaker 5: or just life smoothing out as we get older. Kids

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Speaker 5: kids have lots of animals in their dreams, much more

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Speaker 5: than adults do. But you know, and kids imaginative play,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of animals, and you know, they're dolls

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Speaker 5: and this and that, and we quote gives those up

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Speaker 5: as we become grown up. And so I suspect they

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Speaker 5: disappear from our dreams because they've disappeared from our waking life.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting, That's I mean?

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Speaker 4: Is that why our five year old is constantly waking

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Speaker 4: up with these extremely visceral, scary nightmares, and that's not

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Speaker 4: something that's a part of our lives in our thirties

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Speaker 4: and forties.

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Speaker 5: Kids have them more than adults. We don't know why.

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Speaker 5: There's no suggestion that having nightmares is itself either pathological

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Speaker 5: or indication of other pathologies. They're just bad luck in a.

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Speaker 1: Way, Bob, what about stress? Is stress reflected in our dreams?

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Speaker 5: Come on, Katie, you know that's your whole dream life.

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Speaker 5: Oh yes, everybody in our culture are running crazy. We're

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Speaker 5: running twenty four seven. We're under stress. We don't know

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Speaker 5: how to deal with all the demands in our lives

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Speaker 5: in addition to having individual things that are so stressful.

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Speaker 2: I have a follow up for Bob that I just

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Speaker 2: I was wondering.

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Speaker 4: You were talking about the amount of information that you're

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Speaker 4: getting during the day and then how long.

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Speaker 2: It takes to process all of that.

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Speaker 4: Have you noticed a giant difference in the studies because

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Speaker 4: we're all ingesting so much information before we fall asleep,

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Speaker 4: you know, like between watching TV and looking at our

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Speaker 4: phones and answering emails and texting people and looking at instat.

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Speaker 5: So at sleep onset. It says, if our brain is

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Speaker 5: in fact cataloging what it needs to work on in

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Speaker 5: our dreams that night. And if we interrupt that normal

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Speaker 5: process as we're lying in bed falling asleep by tramming

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Speaker 5: something of a nature that we would never evolutionarily have seen,

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Speaker 5: which is like car crashes and people fighting and screaming

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00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 5: and jet planes and everything happening. Right, if we don't

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Speaker 5: give our brain the chance to do that review of

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Speaker 5: the day, then yes, those things influence your dreams, and

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00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 5: know that's probably not what your brain was trying to

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Speaker 5: get to. I worry a lot about the fact that

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00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 5: we used to spend hours every day doing nothing and

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Speaker 5: now we cannot tolerate that.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's terrifying.

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00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: Even in an elevator when you look around, I'd sometimes

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00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: like test myself.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, you know.

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00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: What, this entire elevator ride and waiting at the office,

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00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: I'm not going to look at my phone at all.

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00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sit here and have thoughts and daydream.

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00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: This is where ideas come out of and where I

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00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: can process worries or things like that, and everyone else

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00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: is on the phone.

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Speaker 5: You're exactly right, Katie, I think you actually end up

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00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 5: with a shallower society that people who store away all

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00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 5: those memories and don't process them. That's the biological role

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00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 5: of dreaming.

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Speaker 4: This has been an absolutely fascinating podcast, and I want

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00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 4: to thank both of you guys for all of the

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00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: time and energy that you put into this.

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Speaker 5: Wh is so much fun, so much fun.

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00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 6: You're gonna have to do this again, Bob together.

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00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: Yes, you guys should take it on the road. Mind

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00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: blowing episode of Chasing Sleep, Katie.

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00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: And you know what I really feel strongly about is

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00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: I loved keeping the dream Journal, but I was like,

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00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: I mean, of all the things going on in my life,

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00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: really going to keep up with this? And now that

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00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: is a definite yes, right, I mean I I just

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00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: think there was so much to uncover and unpack about

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00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: what I'm currently going through by taking a closer look

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00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: at my dreams.

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00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: Well, we couldn't have had two better guests for this.

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00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: You know what I find to be so interesting is

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00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: that we don't know, you know, we're dreaming or why

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00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: it happens. And they and they confirmed that right right,

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00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: And at the same time, they still had this wealth

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00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 4: of knowledge about dreams and how to dissect those dreams,

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00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 4: what questions to ask and how.

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00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: To decipher them, because what we do know about dreaming

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00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: is that understanding your dreams means understanding yourself.

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00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: And this is the thing that's really blew me away.

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00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: It's all metaphorical, like that's what I felt like, kept

486
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: coming up when Justina is asking were you mad, sad,

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00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: glad or afraid? I started on my own making amazing

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00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: connections between my waking life and my dreaming life.

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00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 4: And two episodes down, and this Chasing Sleep podcast has

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00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: been a dream come true.

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00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: Butt up bub And for our.

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00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: Next episode next week, a topic we know a little

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Speaker 4: about sleep and parenting, do we?

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00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: Though I don't know.

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00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: I thought I knew about parenting before I was a parent,

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00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: Now I am not so sure.

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00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: I definitely want to find out how to keep a

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00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 4: certain five year old in his own bed.

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00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 3: Same here.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, we really want to hear from you.

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00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: Go to your podcast player, then rate and review the show.

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00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: We'll read every single one and I'm very sensitive, so

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00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: thank you in advance.

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00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 4: You can also find us at Shabby Chaps on Instagram

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00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 4: and KTQ Lowe's on Instagram, and don't forget to follow

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00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 4: or subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia

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00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm.

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00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: Our executive producer is Molly Sosha.

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00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 4: This show was written and produced by sound At Brands

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00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 4: Dave Beeson, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rex.

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00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro.

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00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: Until next time, we hope you're living your best while

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Speaker 1: sleeping your best.