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Speaker 1: Com slash Therapy for Black Girls. Just go to Helix

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Speaker 1: Sleep dot com slash Therapy for Black Girls, take their

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Speaker 1: your life. Now let's get into the show. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about

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Speaker 1: mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we

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Speaker 1: can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed

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Speaker 1: psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find

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Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for session one eight one of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. It's been a week, hasn't it.

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Speaker 1: Going into last week, I thought I had a pretty

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Speaker 1: good plaint of how I was going to support myself

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Speaker 1: through election Day, but I hadn't really felt too much

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Speaker 1: about what to do in the days following. I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that lots of you have pretty complicated feelings these

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Speaker 1: days as well, So I wanted two of my friends

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Speaker 1: in colleagues to join me this week to do a

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Speaker 1: little reflecting on what many of us might be feeling

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Speaker 1: right now. For this conversation, I'm joined by Dr Joy

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Speaker 1: Beckwith and Dr Ayanna Abrams, who joined us in session

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Speaker 1: thirty six with the podcast to chat about couples counseling.

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Speaker 1: Dr Beckwith is a clinical psychologist, resident radio expert, and

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Speaker 1: college professor. She's a graduate of Spellman College, Rollins School

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Speaker 1: of Public Health, and Emory University, where she served as

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Speaker 1: the chief clinician. Dr Joy can be heard weekly in

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Speaker 1: thirty states on the nationally syndicated radio show The Nightly Spirit,

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Speaker 1: where listeners get their weekly dose of encouragement and callers

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Speaker 1: can ask for on air advice regarding their most pressing dilemmas. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: she developed seminars and workshops for organizations and corporations nationwide

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Speaker 1: and is the co founder of the car Force Psychological

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Speaker 1: Health Institute in Atlanta, Georgia. Dr Abrams is a licensed

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Speaker 1: clinical psychologist also in Georgia, and the CEO and founder

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Speaker 1: of Ascension Behavioral Health. She's also the co founder of

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Speaker 1: Not So Strong, an initiative to improve the mental health

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Speaker 1: and relationship functioning of black women through the use of

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Speaker 1: vulnerable storytelling. Her specialties include racism based trauma, anxiety, depression

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Speaker 1: and other mood disorders, entrepreneurial mental health, and relationship and

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Speaker 1: marital hunseling. She has extensive and clinical experience working with

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Speaker 1: people of color, specifically black women, black men, and black couples.

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Speaker 1: During our chat, we discussed how we're feeling post election,

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Speaker 1: how many of the feelings we're experiencing are the result

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Speaker 1: of the trauma we've endured at the hands of our government,

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Speaker 1: these ideas about black women saving the world, and we

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Speaker 1: discussed the power of representation and what it means to

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Speaker 1: have Vice President elect Kamala Harris preparing to take office.

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Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please

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Speaker 1: be sure to share with us on social media using

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Speaker 1: the hashtag CBG in session. Here's our conversation. So I

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Speaker 1: am so excited that y'all were able to join me.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate my sisters psychologists. I just jumped into the

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Speaker 1: group chat like, hey, y'all free to chat this week

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Speaker 1: because I definitely felt like we needed to do a

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Speaker 1: whole debriefing session of post action. So I want to

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Speaker 1: just hear. Maybe you can start as dr A what

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Speaker 1: have you been feeling kind of in the immediate aftermath

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Speaker 1: selection the question. My best way to describe is I'm mixy.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling mixy um so so, which is for me

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Speaker 1: a mix of feeling relieved. A little bit of hope

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Speaker 1: has come back. But I got my eye on things right,

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Speaker 1: so I haven't kind of, no, deeply, deeply gone into

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Speaker 1: a space of relief just yet. I'm still kind of

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Speaker 1: holding out for some things. But my body does feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit looser and lighter. I will definitely say

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Speaker 1: them where it was last week, m probably somewhat similar.

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Speaker 1: I think I feel, for the lack of a better word, tender,

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Speaker 1: but I think, I think because so I'm in this

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Speaker 1: space where I think it can go in any direction.

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Speaker 1: So I cried, you know, a whole lot recently, and

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Speaker 1: I think it just feels like, okay, should I exhale

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Speaker 1: a little bit or wait a second, I just steel tinder.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not quite ready to be on any side yet.

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Speaker 1: I'm still cautiously optimistic. Is it's kind of what I'm

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Speaker 1: feelings like okay, well, you know, we can you know,

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Speaker 1: feel joy? Okay, well not too much joy. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's a little tender spot. I feel very, very tender,

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Speaker 1: and that's often presenting myself. So I don't have this

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Speaker 1: overwhelming sense of like joy, but I do feel joy,

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Speaker 1: And I don't have this overwhelming sense of relief, but

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Speaker 1: I do feel relief. And so it's just a really

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Speaker 1: really mixed tender spot that I'm in, very tender. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate those reflections, you know. So I also like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have been really shocked by my

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Speaker 1: reaction because I don't know that I consciously knew like

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Speaker 1: how much I was holding in, so kind of immediately

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Speaker 1: after the race was called for Biden, I just like

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Speaker 1: broke into tears and spent much of Saturday crying, right,

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Speaker 1: a mix of kind of like joy like you're mentioning

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Speaker 1: dr joy of kind of seeing people in the streets celebrating,

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Speaker 1: and kind of also relieved, but also just oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: like this was really bad, right and so and so

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Speaker 1: not even recognizing that I was holding onto so much

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Speaker 1: stress related to the fact that we have been under

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Speaker 1: such a cruel crewe rain in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: for the past four years. That speaks to me that

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Speaker 1: that part about realizing in some way, like knowing it

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Speaker 1: was bad, but not not being able to kind of

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Speaker 1: fully encompass how bad it was. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: part of what I where I was on Saturday, because

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Speaker 1: it's like it's been this bad, there's a part of

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Speaker 1: me that still hasn't let go of that just yet.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's part of my mixing as well,

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Speaker 1: like don't don't just jump into you know, relief too soon,

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Speaker 1: Like it's been so bad for so long that there's

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Speaker 1: a part of it that my body just hasn't really

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Speaker 1: been able to shake just yet, Like it hasn't been

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Speaker 1: enough time. It's only been four yeight hours for me

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Speaker 1: to kind of move through some of those emotions. So

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Speaker 1: I'm still in the parts of it. And also because

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Speaker 1: it's we're not fully out of it, where I just

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Speaker 1: I have not been able to take the full leap

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Speaker 1: into hope into the future just yet. Dr A, that's it.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the part where it's tender. It's just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: do I dance a little bit, or way do I

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Speaker 1: hold off because it's like, well, there is some relief

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Speaker 1: and there is some joy, but we're still in it.

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Speaker 1: And so it's like what do you feel when it's

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Speaker 1: not completely over? You're not completely out of it yet

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Speaker 1: what I was sharing with my family, I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I realized, much like you, Dr Joy, that I had

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Speaker 1: been holding my breath and I did not know that

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Speaker 1: I've been holding my breath. And I think how to

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Speaker 1: describe that is? I think often it makes me this

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Speaker 1: is and you know, just for me, I think to

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Speaker 1: get by on low supply like low oxygen isn't foreign

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Speaker 1: to me. I think we often just get by. We

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Speaker 1: often keep going, We often pushed through, and much like you,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy, I didn't realize like how much my little

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Speaker 1: supply was low, and that I had been holding my

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Speaker 1: breath until that shower where I cry and it was

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Speaker 1: just like you know, that type of crying. It's like okay, girl,

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Speaker 1: what is that you know? And where did that come from?

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Speaker 1: But really digging that deep and crying that deeply, realizing

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Speaker 1: like wow, you have been holding some stuff for quite

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Speaker 1: some time. But then even catching yourself like okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, like what does this Christ symbolize? You know,

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Speaker 1: because you're still kind of in there in it. And

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Speaker 1: I think for me, like once you're being traumatized and

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Speaker 1: you feel like you've been you know, traumatized for so

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Speaker 1: long you know, there's this hesitation to like, Okay, well

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Speaker 1: what's next? You know, what will come next? Should you

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Speaker 1: be celebrating? You know, are you celebrating too soon? It's

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Speaker 1: a lot. I'm glad you brought up that word, Dr

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Speaker 1: Joy traumatized, because I really feel that that is what

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Speaker 1: most of us are experiencing and didn't even necessarily know

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Speaker 1: to call it that, right, And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are all psychologists, and so we know what it

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Speaker 1: means to kind of work with someone who has been traumatized,

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Speaker 1: and so I think it's important to also think about

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Speaker 1: what this might feel like if you do already have

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Speaker 1: a history of trauma. Right. So, I think I had

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Speaker 1: been spending a lot of time leading up to like

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Speaker 1: election day thinking about the fact that how trauma tized

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Speaker 1: I felt waking up four years ago and finding out

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Speaker 1: that A Killery had not won the election, right, And

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Speaker 1: so in some ways I have been kind of bracing

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Speaker 1: myself for like revisiting the scene, so to speak. So

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Speaker 1: I thought I would have had more of a reaction

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, right, But it wasn't actually until after the

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Speaker 1: race was called that I had the reactions. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you all can maybe speak to that, like this

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Speaker 1: whole new experience of trauma that we've all had from

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Speaker 1: the government for four years in light of anybody who's

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Speaker 1: had a past history of trauma. I think that that

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Speaker 1: you know, that activation, as we've seen, is showing up

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Speaker 1: very different for people. Right. There are some people who

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Speaker 1: have talked about, you know, being more desensitized and numb

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Speaker 1: doubt right that though they don't even turn on for

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Speaker 1: the past few years. They haven't even turned on press

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Speaker 1: conferences anymore. They've just kind of shut it off. They

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Speaker 1: don't look at the tweet, they don't do any of

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Speaker 1: that anymore. And I think that's one way in which

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Speaker 1: people respond to wright trauma. Another way that people respond

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Speaker 1: to trauma is they're activated by it. They're looking at

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Speaker 1: all the stuff, They're looking at all the news, they're

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Speaker 1: sharing all the the awful things that we've kind of

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Speaker 1: seen and heard over and over and over and over, right,

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Speaker 1: So all of that makes sense in terms of um

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Speaker 1: the differences or the different ways within which how people

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Speaker 1: process or manifest right their trauma. We're either talking about

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Speaker 1: it a lot, right, or you know, you see people

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Speaker 1: who are just like, no, I can't I can't even

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Speaker 1: go there. I can't even take any more of this

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Speaker 1: stuff in. And that has its own implications, right if

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Speaker 1: you are more numbed out of me and you can't

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Speaker 1: feel other things. But we've been seeing that for the

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Speaker 1: last few years, right, just depending on where you are

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Speaker 1: in terms of how you process and how you cope.

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Speaker 1: I don't tend to hold things as you know, actively emotional.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably more of one of the numbing, like with drawers.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I'm not impacted by it, but I

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Speaker 1: think I've been so impacted that now my body is like,

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Speaker 1: m we can't take motives. So I'm not watching I'm

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Speaker 1: not reading stuff, I'm not retweeting stuff, any of that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think for me it was very, very similar,

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Speaker 1: but like realizing this influx of emotions and then being

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Speaker 1: able to label them like, okay, this feels like trauma

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Speaker 1: to me. So you know, going through where I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: these strong sense of sadness, the strong sense of anxiety,

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Speaker 1: they really feeling exhausted. Really, you know, you're kind of

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Speaker 1: describing like a dissociation from this stuff. It's just like, man,

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Speaker 1: what is going on? Feeling like this is the twilight

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Speaker 1: zone to a certain extent, and even having like you know,

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Speaker 1: not being able to rest, not being able to disconnect,

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Speaker 1: So the hyper vigilance of it all, feeling like I

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Speaker 1: need to protect myself, like what's going on? I need

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Speaker 1: to watch the news, I need to read what's happening here,

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Speaker 1: I need to be on this side, like what are

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Speaker 1: they saying? What are the possibility So really finding myself

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Speaker 1: on several ends of it, sometimes really really being overly

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Speaker 1: engross in it and then realizing like, well, okay, well

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Speaker 1: I thought I was doing that too, you know, protect

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Speaker 1: myself so better inform myself. But as a result, I

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Speaker 1: am more anxious, so pulling away from it, and then

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Speaker 1: the depression and what comes along with it with that,

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Speaker 1: the sadness of being out of the know, or the

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Speaker 1: sadness of like I don't know what's going to happen,

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Speaker 1: or feeling as if things are out of your control,

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Speaker 1: or that something horrible can happen to you at any moment.

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Speaker 1: So I went through, I guess, you know, a spectrum

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Speaker 1: of all of those emotions and really trying to figure out, Okay, girls,

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Speaker 1: so what's the balance, Because too little is not good

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Speaker 1: for you, and you're not like nuts feeling, but also

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Speaker 1: too much is it's too much and you're not good

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Speaker 1: for yourself nor anyone else. So avoidance wasn't the answer,

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Speaker 1: nor kind of hitting it head on either. There's a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot, But once I experienced all of the like

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Speaker 1: this trauma, I was gonna says I. As I was

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Speaker 1: listening to myself talk and also listening to what you know,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy was saying, I think I and a lot

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Speaker 1: of my clients, and out of particularly other black women

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Speaker 1: who've talked to I think a lot of us have

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Speaker 1: also transferred or kind of transformed a lot of that

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Speaker 1: traumatic energy into overfunctioning in other areas of our lives.

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Speaker 1: I have worked so much, I have seen so many clients.

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Speaker 1: I have done like so much work, and I really

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Speaker 1: like honed in on my focus of like listen, we

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Speaker 1: all we got so I'm gonna do whatever I can

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Speaker 1: for the black people, my client, my couples, my groups,

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Speaker 1: my my companies. So I do think that I've transferred

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Speaker 1: a lot of that energy into work without having enough

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Speaker 1: of a cap on it right in terms of that balance,

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Speaker 1: because it was just so much energy there. And I've

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Speaker 1: talked to my clients a lot about that over the years,

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Speaker 1: even if we didn't explicitly kind of plug it into

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Speaker 1: write the regime right and kind of the trauma of

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Speaker 1: you know, our leadership and government. But I wouldn't be surprised,

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Speaker 1: right if people can look at the last four years

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Speaker 1: and notice a remarkable little difference or marked difference in

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Speaker 1: how they were functioning. I would love to hear both

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Speaker 1: of you really talk about how people might be able

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Speaker 1: to kind pick that apart for themselves. Right. So, now

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Speaker 1: that we are it feels like we can kind of

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Speaker 1: see the light at the end of the tunnel, right,

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Speaker 1: how they can begin to kind of make sense and

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Speaker 1: even kind of explore some of all of what they

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Speaker 1: might be feeling. What suggestions would have you know, I

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Speaker 1: think our tendency dark a is is to control the controllables,

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Speaker 1: and we start to feel whenever we feel like things are,

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Speaker 1: you know, out of control, we really go into like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this response. We want to control the controllables, and so

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Speaker 1: we put that energy towards what we feel like is

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Speaker 1: able to be controlled. But now that we're able to

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Speaker 1: breathe a little bit, now that we're able to actel

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Speaker 1: a little bit, for me to take a step back

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Speaker 1: and to say, okay, so what is like, what is existing?

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Speaker 1: Because what we do know is that there's some of

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Speaker 1: the things that happen are some of the ways that

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Speaker 1: we responded that aren't necessarily a bad way, you know,

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Speaker 1: a bad response to the trauma. So for those of

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Speaker 1: us who decided to lean in a little bit more

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Speaker 1: with our family members, to lean in a little bit

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Speaker 1: more on our growth group, our circles, for those of

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Speaker 1: us who started journaling, so engaging in other ways of

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Speaker 1: self care meditation, there's some of those things that hey,

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Speaker 1: they could benefit from staying like, let me not throw

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Speaker 1: that away. But then to look at the parts that

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Speaker 1: Dr A said, you know where did I overextend myself?

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Speaker 1: Over exert myself? So what is so just because I

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Speaker 1: know I can work sixty hours a week and just

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Speaker 1: because I know, like, hey, I'm keyed up, basically, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't really work for me in terms of sustaining myself.

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Speaker 1: And so I believen looking at what is now? So

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Speaker 1: now that I'm breathing, but now that my my vision

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Speaker 1: is not as cloudy, now that I'm able to get

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Speaker 1: a good night's sleep, for a better night's sleep, to

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Speaker 1: really look at what is and to take evaluation of,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are the things that need to stay

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Speaker 1: and what are the things that need to go, and

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Speaker 1: then kind of getting some things in place to know

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't have to happen all at once. There

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Speaker 1: is some self compassion and to look to say, I

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Speaker 1: now know or I can connect with why I did that,

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Speaker 1: why I engaged in that behavior, and how that suited

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Speaker 1: me then but may not be best for me now,

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Speaker 1: And to start getting rid of some of those seeing

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Speaker 1: dividing up some of those tasks and really figuring out

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Speaker 1: how can we keep that because as the world we

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Speaker 1: opens and as life kind of gets back to this

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Speaker 1: new sense of normalness, what needs to stay and how

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Speaker 1: can I keep those things and don't go back to

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Speaker 1: that the person that I once was that Hey, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't as happy either. So yeah, so self evaluation, I

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Speaker 1: think inventory is going to be so so important. So

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Speaker 1: how did I respond to this? Um, what did I

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Speaker 1: start or what do I need to start now that

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Speaker 1: I'm out of that. I've been in survival mode so long.

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Speaker 1: Maybe now do I need to go to therapy or

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Speaker 1: start some therapy so that I can kind of work

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Speaker 1: on something of the stuff that has come up for

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Speaker 1: me during that time period, during the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: or even with this pandemic the last couple of months,

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Speaker 1: Like what am I recognizing now that I cannot run

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Speaker 1: from it? The fact that now that I can these

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Speaker 1: things in terms of escaping some of these things. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't add too much more to that in terms

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Speaker 1: of that inventory of what's been working, what's not been working.

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Speaker 1: You know, what has been the implications right of any

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Speaker 1: coping skills you've been engaging in or kind of who

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Speaker 1: you've been connecting to and as you see yourself now

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Speaker 1: and as we're kind of moving into a new not

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Speaker 1: only year, but new you know, presidency, right, new kind

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Speaker 1: of leadership in this way other ways in which we

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Speaker 1: have been connected and involved in it that have felt

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Speaker 1: really healthy. That I know what has increased for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people in the sense of advocacy, some boundary

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Speaker 1: setting right around who they are engaging with, whether it

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Speaker 1: be workspaces, family, peers, community like neighborhood stuff, as well

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Speaker 1: as getting more connected in like campaigns and just kind

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Speaker 1: of knowing what's going on, right and not only their

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Speaker 1: you know, immediate communities in the nation, but also in

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Speaker 1: the world, right, people finding ways to be more informed

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Speaker 1: of things, but being able to you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: create what you want that, particularlyast the top of next

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Speaker 1: year to look like in terms of how connected you

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Speaker 1: have been, and only you will know if you have

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Speaker 1: been hyper or kind of over connected versus kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling a little bit more balanced in that. But that

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Speaker 1: inventory is really important and not a one time thing, right,

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Speaker 1: You also get to take inventory at the top of

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Speaker 1: next year. You get to take inventory a few months later,

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Speaker 1: just to see where any of what is going on

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Speaker 1: that we can't you know, foresee right now is landing

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Speaker 1: for you. And I think the other piece I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about a little bit more with that is what

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing some people talk about and some people be

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Speaker 1: able to speak to, is while there's some sense of

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Speaker 1: relief that we are, you know, moving into this new

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Speaker 1: leadership and can feel hopeful and joyful and encouraged, for

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Speaker 1: some people, it doesn't feel too far from what we've

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Speaker 1: been in because of who the president is. Right. The

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Speaker 1: president is still a white man. Right, The president still

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Speaker 1: is in a position of you know, privilege and power

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Speaker 1: that historically has not been that safe for us. So

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Speaker 1: I also recognize, you know, some of the skepticism around, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to remove it too far right and

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Speaker 1: give him too much credit for this, right, particularly when

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Speaker 1: it's been black women who are still doing a lot

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Speaker 1: of the work and a lot of the heavy lifting.

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Speaker 1: So for some of us, nothing's changing. For some of

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Speaker 1: us is just like, yeah, we keep all trucking like

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Speaker 1: we've been trucking, right, We keep on taking care of

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Speaker 1: ourselves the way we have been taking care of ourselves

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Speaker 1: because we've never are really trusted government, right, So also

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Speaker 1: recognized that that those feelings of relief might not be

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Speaker 1: as present for some people because this doesn't feel too

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Speaker 1: different in terms of the larger social justice structure of

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Speaker 1: our government. Very good points that Dr A. It's so funny.

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Speaker 1: I was reading something very recently that spoke suggest that

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Speaker 1: it said, you know, how do you survive as a

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Speaker 1: black woman in a society that worships whiteness and particularly

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Speaker 1: a white middle And so as we have this this

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Speaker 1: new president, you know, those things still remain, and so

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Speaker 1: you know where people are hesitant to move forward, hesitant

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Speaker 1: to feel this huge sense of hope. I think what

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Speaker 1: these last couple of years have reminded us of what

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Speaker 1: we already know is that we are survivors. We will survive,

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Speaker 1: and to not put our trust and our faith and

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Speaker 1: our hope in that person, but to bring it back

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Speaker 1: to us. It's like, you know, my trust, my faith

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Speaker 1: is in my fod to survive. But also you know

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Speaker 1: what the pandemic taught us, or what the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years have taught me, is just the power of

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Speaker 1: my village, the power of the collective, the power of

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Speaker 1: you know, all of us to come together and what

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Speaker 1: we can do and what happens when that does happen.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter who is there. Those things you're

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Speaker 1: right after a they have been the same. We heard

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Speaker 1: Biden say, you know, we have had his back and

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Speaker 1: he hopes to have ours. Well, you know what, we've

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Speaker 1: heard stories like that before too, and so you know

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Speaker 1: how much of that do we totally say okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and put our faith in, Like we don't have faith

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Speaker 1: necessarily in our government hasn't been on our side. So

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Speaker 1: what do we put our faith in? What do we

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Speaker 1: put our hope in? And what is it that we

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Speaker 1: can trust? And one thing for sure, you know what

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Speaker 1: the world has found about is that you can trust

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Speaker 1: the black woman. But I think that's something that we

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Speaker 1: know too, to be able to trust each other, to

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Speaker 1: see how much we have supported each other, how much

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Speaker 1: we have held each other down and this country frankly,

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Speaker 1: so going back to that, like what feels solid to us?

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Speaker 1: Returning to that, M So I want to stay with

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Speaker 1: this idea for a little bit because, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: over the past, we did have and all of these

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Speaker 1: you know, celebrations and exclamations about how black women have

430
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: saved democracy, right, And like you said, Dr Joy, you know,

431
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: we know that black women show up and show out

432
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: like that is kind of who we are in a

433
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: lot of ways. But it also feels like we have

434
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: to pay attention to what Dr a has also mentioned

435
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: that it feels like for a lot of us are

436
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: kind of primary coping mechanism is to overfunction, right, And

437
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: so it kind of feels like I have complicated feelings

438
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: around black women being celebrated for service, right. I mean,

439
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: of course we want to be of service, you know.

440
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: I think that that is something that a lot of

441
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: us value. But I struggle with this idea that it

442
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: feels like there is just this you know, effusive praise

443
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: for black women when it feels like they are in

444
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: service and they're saving other people. That then makes it

445
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: really hard for us not to feed into this strong

446
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: black woman narrative. Right. So, if we know we get

447
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: all this praise for kind of doing the things we

448
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: how are we making sure to kind of check that

449
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: and make sure that we're also saving some for ourselves. Yeah,

450
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: And I think the complicated is really the best way

451
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: to describe that kind of paradox, right, because in us

452
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: continuing to show up for ourselves, right, other people also

453
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: get to benefit off of this, But it creates this complacency,

454
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: they're right where we kind of get this praise. And

455
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: I remember I just you know, made a post saying,

456
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,959
Speaker 1: you know you can, you can praise us and do

457
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: all of this, but well, how are you actually treating us?

458
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: Or are you the you know, the love of the

459
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: black women's vote, But like, do you love black women?

460
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 1: What does that look like in your life? Do you

461
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: pay us? Do you respect us? Right? So, how does

462
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: that actually show up day to day versus you love

463
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: or we can contribute so that you have to do

464
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: less work, all Right, And that is a paradox that

465
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: we have not been able to move out of. We

466
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: will only actually be able to shift out of that

467
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: kind of paradigm when white people begin to do more work,

468
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: particularly white women, begin to do some more their own work.

469
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: But I think we're still right in right in the

470
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: middle of that phase of how that still shows up.

471
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: I don't think we would have done anything differently because

472
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: it all trickles down to us in some way and

473
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: we will always bear the worst brunt of it. Also,

474
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: I don't think we would show up any less, but

475
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: it means that we still have to deal with what

476
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: it means that other people feel so relieved that we've

477
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: done the work for them again. Yeah, dr a complex

478
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: is the only word to describe that. It is very

479
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: tender and it's very heartbreaking. Innocence where to think of

480
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: black women is anonymous with strength, anonymous with being strong.

481
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: It does not mean that it is not heavy, and

482
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: I think that's the part that they don't see because

483
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: we carry it so well. It is heavy and it

484
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking because if we look at everything that we

485
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: have to carry in the sense of just dealing with violence,

486
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, violences within our families, in terms of our

487
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: black men, in terms of economic inequalities or economic instabilities,

488
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: like all of those things. We think about how hard

489
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: we have to work in order to obtain, attain, maintain

490
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: all of that. It just makes us so much and

491
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: so I think it is a process. You're right. I

492
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: think others have to do the work to doctor A

493
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: and us making sure that as strong as we are,

494
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: that we are also being that for ourselves too, Like

495
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: what does that look like when I use the strength

496
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: to take care of myself. We are carrying the burden

497
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: of democracy for an entire country that routine and systematically

498
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: oppropresses us. And so I am mindful of what has

499
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: happened here. We are showing up, And I think the

500
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: reason that we're showing up, doctor A, you hinted at it,

501
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: it's mainly because I think the only thing are one

502
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: of the only tools that we feel that we have

503
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: that gives us hope for equality is our democracy. So

504
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's like, well, we know what

505
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: happens if we don't show up. We know what what

506
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: happens if we don't advocate like this, if we don't

507
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: show up and show out, I mean, you know the numbers,

508
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: So what if we had that out on this and

509
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: and so, but what would have happened and to whom

510
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: it would have happened too? It goes back to us

511
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: in terms about economic instability, in terms of our job insecurity,

512
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: in terms of the violence that are happening. It comes

513
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: back to us. So we have no choice at the

514
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: end of the day but to show up the way

515
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: that we show up. And so I think it is

516
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: basically using some of that strength will require others to

517
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: do their work too. That's the thing. It's like, you

518
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: can't sit back and require us. We already know how

519
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: strong we are, we know how powerfully are we know

520
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: what exists. It's like, it's really we don't have to

521
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: pull the blinders off of your eyes. It's like you

522
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: need to open your eyes so that you can see too.

523
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: And so it's a whole complicated mess, but we understand

524
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: why we showed up the way we had to show up.

525
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: We frankly did not have another choice. Yeah, that's the

526
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: murkiness of and as we were talking about this as

527
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: as an abusive relationship, that that's the murkiness of codependent relationships.

528
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: Right that we learn right that if I don't do it,

529
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: it won't be done all right, and then I have

530
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: to I will make in front of all the negative

531
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: consequences if you do not do this thing. So it's

532
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: it's really hard to get out of. It's really hard

533
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: to separate yourself from when this has been our life, right,

534
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: that this hasn't been a one year or two year

535
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: or six months, you know, a thing that we can

536
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: maybe we have seen ourselves in other ways. This is

537
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: how a lot of black women know themselves. Right, So

538
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: it can be really easy to say like no, just

539
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: do it differently, just don't do this or don't do this.

540
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: But it's complicated and complex, right is the word? All right?

541
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: This is a an abusive, codependent relationship with the government. Yeah,

542
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: And that's the point that I really struggle with, right

543
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: because it's like we keep showing up, like when is

544
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: there ever time like any care of and just like

545
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: any abusive relationship, what happens. It's like, you know, they

546
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: give us, you know, stimulus checks and little small gifts

547
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: things here to make the pain not be so bad.

548
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: It's like you know, well, hey, this is supposed to

549
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: hold you over or you know, here the flowers, you know,

550
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: to kind of make up for you know, the pain

551
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: and the the abuse that I've caused you, and it's

552
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: just like no. And so it's this siightful, this thing

553
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: that keeps continuing this codependent relationship is like, well, you

554
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: know I do need to do this or you hang

555
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: it over our heads. It's like, well, once you vote

556
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: for me or once this happens, then I will release

557
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: perhaps maybe the second stimulus check. And so you know,

558
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: how do we get ourselves in this situation where it

559
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: is very very mimicking up an abusive relationship and then

560
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: when do we get out and how do we get

561
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: out of it? M We go back to where Dr

562
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: gr was saying, like when is noth enough right? Right?

563
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: And I see that as an opening for and I've

564
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: appreciated some people also being able to speak to this

565
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: like hey, I can hold my joy, attend to what

566
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: I can hold feeling relief and encouragement, but there's still

567
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: accountability there. We can still kind of use these experience

568
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: say hey we have heard this before. Hey you are

569
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: calling on us right in this way where you are

570
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: thanking us and you are praising us, but this is

571
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: what we're still asking for, right, So not not letting

572
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: up right and that kind of accountability and those kinds

573
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: of demands and says, hey, this is how you actually

574
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: take care of us, not just in words, not just

575
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: in Paris in the first forty eight hours, right, but

576
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: this is what we are looking for. I think that

577
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: is also something that that can allow us to feel

578
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: a little bit more empowered in the transition of this process.

579
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. We may have to remind some of our

580
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: people of our our famous little statement that support is

581
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: a verb. So you say you are an ally, It's

582
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: like there are multiple ways, and so how do you

583
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: show up? Yeah, how do you show us that you

584
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: support us? You know, it's more than just what you say,

585
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: but it is and what and how what you do?

586
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: So holding them accountable? But I think for us to

587
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: be aware of what is it that we want to

588
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, what are some things that they can do,

589
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: So when when they do want to put some action

590
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: behind it, what does that look like for us? Yeah?

591
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: And holding people accountable. M you didn't say anything in

592
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: the meeting, huh, Yeah, they love something your office after

593
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: the meeting is over right, and say oh h mm

594
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: hmmm mmmm, it's like, really you enjoyed it? Didn't I

595
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: could wouldn't have known I don't know, yeah, and not

596
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: being able to stand in the back of that channel.

597
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, the little back channeling the email like

598
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: really really great thing you said. I wish I had

599
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: those words for that. You were just that was so

600
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: spot on, but you didn't see see everybody on that.

601
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: You said that to just me. Uh And I think

602
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: that's tired of it. We're tired. We're tired of the

603
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: back door, the back channeling of like, oh, really great points,

604
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: and we're tired of you stopping by the office is

605
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: at the very end to say, you know, a great

606
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: job today and really being able to stand into that,

607
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: like you know, it would have been really great to

608
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: hear you say that in the meeting today and that's

609
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: it and leaving it there, and you need to sit

610
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: in that discomfort knowing that, you know what, you could

611
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: have shown me that in a number of other ways,

612
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: this little stop by my office is not one of them.

613
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. See see your folks. So the other thing

614
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: that I think has been really complicated for people is

615
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: the idea that and I don't know that a lot

616
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: of us, but I think some of us thought that

617
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: the election would not have been as close as it

618
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: has been, right, and so so we are also left

619
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: dealing with the idea that over seventy million people saw

620
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: everything that this administration has done. I saw how many

621
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: people have died, saw no real leadership, and said, yes,

622
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: sign me up for another four years of this right,

623
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: And so I find myself feeling than really anxious about

624
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: like who to trust, right, Like how do I know

625
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: where you fall on this side of things? So I'm

626
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: wondering if you all can maybe speak to that, just

627
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: the idea that so many people still decided to vote

628
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: for this administration. Yeah, you know, I think that speaks

629
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: to a lot of newer I don't think you do us,

630
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: but newer conversations, particularly since the murder of George Floyd,

631
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: where there are more non black communities talking about the

632
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: difference between being a passive non racist right and an

633
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: active anti racist right. And those are ways in which

634
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: I had already kind of been engaging, like, Hey, if

635
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: I don't hear anything like actively from you, that I

636
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: don't put a pass you. If I can't see it,

637
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: then I can't really vouch right for you or kind

638
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: of vouch for how you feel about me or my

639
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: family or my loved ones or my culture or any

640
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: of those things, until I see some willingness right to

641
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: get uncomfortable, until I see some willingness to be inconvenience,

642
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: until I see some openness to whatever losses might come

643
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: with right, you speaking up in these ways. So I'd

644
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: already kind of moved to a bit of a position

645
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: in that way, so this didn't surprise me, And as

646
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: much it was still uncomfortable. It's like, dang, okay, y'all

647
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: had a chance. Oh here we are right. Not only that,

648
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: y'all had a chance, willer of y'all voted right then

649
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: four years ago, right, the percentages went up. So I

650
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: don't feel myself too deflated or defeated. But it really

651
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: hasn't changed what I look for, and I don't really

652
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: I don't call them allies, and they tend to call

653
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: themselves allies. I don't look for that anymore, right, Right.

654
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: What I will pay attention to, right is if you

655
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: are actively anti racist. That's what I But other than that,

656
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm not giving praise. I'm not doing all this. I'm

657
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: not doing this, you know, public appreciation of particularly non

658
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: black people who who will speak out against things. I'll

659
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a like, but I'm not

660
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: gonna do all all this work to give you a

661
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: whole bunch of praise. In terms of that what I

662
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: find as you know, kind of basic social justice right

663
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: and kind of human rights work. But I've always had

664
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: my eye on how actively someone is willing right to

665
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: engage in that in that work. So the too closeness

666
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 1: has been uncomfortable but not too surprising for me, Like

667
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: it was just confirming, right, what I was already thinking

668
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: in terms of like how performative was six months ago,

669
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: how performative was June and July. This is only a

670
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: few months ago. And look, right, we're not even so

671
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: far from all the Black Squares and all the money

672
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: donated to the concern, all the d ms that we've had,

673
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: and all the podcast requests that we've had, and all

674
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: the company talks we've been doing. We're not even far removed.

675
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: And yall are already over it. Okay, okay, absolutely, So

676
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm with Peopack today. I I was a surprise, but

677
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: still somewhat like hoping for something better. It's like you

678
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: see it and you're just like, you know, dang, I

679
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: was really hoping that we would have turned the corner.

680
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: But yes, it's more of an active, entire racist because

681
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: I too, I saw like, oh, we we go past

682
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: the black squares now, so there's nothing else after the

683
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: black square, which did not include a caption, by the way,

684
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: but after the black square, you know there is nothing else.

685
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: So I'm really looking at how do you show up?

686
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: It goes back to what our parents taught us a

687
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: long time ago. Actions speak louder than words, and so

688
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: you know what you're saying this. You put up your

689
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: little black square, you sent some d n s, you

690
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: like some stuff, and you posted up pictures with you

691
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: and your black friends or your black colleague. That's not

692
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: enough for me. He right, Hello, but why were you crying?

693
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: I don't even know why you're crying because, just like

694
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: the Black Squares, it did not come with any type

695
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: of caption, so you could have been crying for a

696
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: number of other reasons. I'm not sure this resulted in

697
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: me having trust issues. I got trust issues, and so

698
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: that's it. It's like you build it. It's like, girl,

699
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: I trust you because of what I've seen over the

700
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: last couple of months or whatever. It works in the

701
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: opposite direction. I trust issues because of what I have

702
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: not seen. You have not actively been in anti racist

703
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: and so you know what, Okay, did you still out?

704
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: And I'm operating in that. And they've been crying this week,

705
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: was crying last week, was crying this weekend. They've been

706
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: crying for the last five months, and I just what

707
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: what are you? What? What? I still don't know why.

708
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: We don't know what the tears are about. But we

709
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: don't We don't know why, though, that's the thing. Put

710
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: some words behind it. Yeah, I don't know, m M.

711
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: So it's more so being active. I gotta see it.

712
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: I gotta see it. So we also know that, and

713
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: I am not at all shocked by the behavior that

714
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: the president is having related to using the election right,

715
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: so we knew he was not gonna be a gracious loser.

716
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: But I also this is another part of my anxiety.

717
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: I am concerned about what the next seventy plus days

718
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: looks like because we do know that there's something going

719
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: on there, right, and so I don't know that we

720
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: are able to accurately gauge just how like ridiculous he

721
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: might not become within the next couple of days. So

722
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: can you both speak to kind of like your thoughts

723
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: about that or you know, we've been using the kind

724
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: of language of an abusive relationship, which is the format

725
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: that really fits. I'm wondering related to that kind of

726
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: a framework, what are your thoughts about, like what the

727
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: next couple of months might be, Like I find myself

728
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: not super actively, but just you know, preparing for a

729
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: series of tantrums, right, preparing for a series of you know,

730
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: power place things that were not unfamiliar with right over

731
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: the past few years, but they'll look a little bit

732
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: different at this point. Right, this is the the grasp

733
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: right when someone is losing power. It's becoming as as

734
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: real as as maybe the president and see or the

735
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: right house will be able to let in. I don't

736
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: think it will go too deeply, but we're going to

737
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: see a whole bunch of grabs at anything. And with

738
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: those grabs not only comes a you know, it's a

739
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: great response to denial, right of what is happening and

740
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: that it's real. But then you move into anger phases.

741
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: What that anger will look like, right, is anything that

742
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: mischaracterizes right the quote unquote opposing side, or mischaracterizes the people.

743
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: But I think it'll just be a mix of all

744
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: of those things. I don't think there's going to be

745
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: a moving through the full through all the stages of

746
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: grief in the next you know, seventy something days. I

747
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: think we're gonna be bouncing back and forth between denial

748
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: and anger, denial, anger, denial, anger, and that's gonna take

749
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: us through until January is a denuy twiny whatever day

750
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: it is. January. Yeah, yeah, and maybe maybe we'll get

751
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: to a little bit of the bargaining right stage. But

752
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to deep past any of that. What.

753
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll ever see acceptance. I agree,

754
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, as we go through those stages. But m hm,

755
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: so I think what the things that you mentioned are

756
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: exactly right. We're talking about tantrums, we're talking about outbursts

757
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: and power plays. Yes, I think whenever we see a

758
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: person who feels like they have lost control, when they

759
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: feel a sense of shame or humiliation, all of those

760
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: things kind of raised this flag for us that says,

761
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, what, we have to be prepared for some

762
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: type of bullying behavior, some type of rage, some type

763
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: of outbursts, some type of aggression. And so it's one

764
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: of those things where you know that cows move. It's

765
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: being aware that cows move. So when they start to move,

766
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, dang, there's that sound. We expected it.

767
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: We knew that it would come. And I think that's

768
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: what we're all saying. We see the perceived loss of

769
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: power or loss of control. We see what could be

770
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, interpreted shame or humiliation. And so when these

771
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: denials start to kind of come out, or when this

772
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: anchor starts to come out, it's like, Okay, here it is.

773
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: We knew it was coming, and you know, we can

774
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: only hope and pray that, you know, there's a limit

775
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: to it. You know. The other thing that is really confusing,

776
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: I think, but not so confusing. It is just the

777
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: fact that there are so many other people who are

778
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: buying into this with him, right, So it is a

779
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: circle of advisors and you know, his people who are

780
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: all kind of feeding into this, you know. So it's like,

781
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: is there no one who will kind of step aside

782
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: and say, hey, okay, we really need to make a

783
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: plan to kind of lose this graciously or in the

784
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: benefit of the democracy. You know, this is our plan

785
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: for kind of transitioning. Like, I think that that's the

786
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: point that makes it really difficult as well. Yeah, I agree,

787
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: I am actually seeing it live at least some more

788
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: mumblings of some people in his camp, at least being

789
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: able to say like, hey, let's call it, let's do this,

790
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: let's not you know, go against the democratic process. But

791
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, as I think about this all in the

792
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: the frame or context of power and privilege, I also

793
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: recognize that people are still attached to that level of

794
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: power that they have and if I do too much, now,

795
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: what does that mean for what I might lose in

796
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: the future. Right, it's all the proximity to power that's

797
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: still really at play. So there's a part of me

798
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: that while I can feel I do feel, you know,

799
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: disappointed and still confused by it, when I'm able to

800
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: root it in that power structure and makes a lot

801
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: of sense. Right, they want to still be in proximity

802
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: to the access of whatever power and whatever social capital

803
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 1: they get from it now because he represents a loss

804
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: of that, And in some ways I also still see that.

805
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: I think he's also commatized people who are around him,

806
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't be surprised if people also feel scared. Right,

807
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: There's been a move of the needle internally, and I

808
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: don't think that everyone around there feels safe enough to

809
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: say it outside, to say it kind of out loud

810
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: right to him, And that's an impact, right of that

811
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: kind of manipulation he has silenced people. I'm interested to

812
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: kind of see what happens over the next few weeks

813
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: and kind of in the spring, because I think we're

814
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: also gonna hear a lot of stories about what the

815
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: last four years have been like for people. I think

816
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff is gonna come out over

817
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: the next few years. But again, it also just mimics

818
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: the silence, and that can happen right in a really,

819
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: really toxic relationship. I do not feel safe enough to

820
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: say any of this stuff right now because I need

821
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: a job, I needed this, this is where I live,

822
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: like whatever the factors might be at play. So I'm

823
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: hoping that even that some of those people can also

824
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: feel safe enough, at least after a few weeks from now,

825
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: to find safety and then to begin right kind of

826
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: narrating their own story. I think some people are still

827
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: too close to it now. The other people. I hope

828
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: there's consequences for a number of things that have happened

829
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 1: I do have some faith that there are some people

830
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: in there who are just really conflicted because of those

831
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: same reasons. I totally agree, Dr A. I think that's

832
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: the saving grace. I feel like, you know, just like

833
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: with all toxic relationships, it's like, well, things don't really

834
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: start to come out, and people don't normally start to

835
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: really talk about, you know, what it's been like until

836
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: they are out, until they know that they are safe

837
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: to have a sense of feeling safe again, that their

838
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: their livelihood is not being friend But you're also right,

839
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: there is something to be said about wanting to hold

840
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: onto power and privilege and everything that comes along with that.

841
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: And so it's funny because when I was thinking about

842
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: this too, like hey, there's no one around him who's

843
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: being able to say like, hey, okay, you know we should,

844
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: you know, for the sake of our country. But then

845
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: I thought about it. I think that perhaps I don't

846
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: know if all of them, but perhaps some of those

847
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: people they were released a long time ago. So you

848
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: do remember when we were doing the showing of the board,

849
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: it's like, well, you know, we have a whole bunch

850
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: of people, and so the ones that we have who

851
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: are remaining it's like they're in it and they're deep

852
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: in this topic relationship, and so it's not as easy

853
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: to really say, hey, you know, okay, let's back off

854
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: of this. It's like, nope, a lot of things are

855
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: tied to this power and privilege. If you go back

856
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: to even this the terror management theory when it talks

857
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: about the existential crisis in terms of you know, maintaining,

858
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: maintaining or holding onto you know, these parts that exist

859
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: because you're wondering what happens to me if this crumbles.

860
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: So if in fact, you know, this power goes away,

861
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: or if in fact this privilege goes away, or if

862
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: in fact all of this stuff starts to rumble, than

863
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: what happens to me. So then it's like, well, what's

864
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: driving you? What's making it? Where I'm holding onto this.

865
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: They may both like to us that you know, you know,

866
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: you're you're a part of that, or you agree fully

867
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: with that, where then in fact there's something else that

868
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: is driving and it's like you're really afraid of what

869
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: is at stake for you? Yeahslutely. So the point that

870
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: has been most joyful for me has been Kamala Harris

871
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: of course being our first female female, first woman of

872
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: Indian descent, vice president elect, right, and so you know,

873
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: I know we are all very excited about that. Dr

874
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: Joy and I are both Catha Elpha, so she's a

875
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: sorority sister, you know. So there's just a lot of

876
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: pride and a lot of excitement about what she represents.

877
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: And we said this before on the podcast. Of course,

878
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: representation is not enough, but it is something right, and

879
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that we can kind of take away

880
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: what this means to a lot of people. I'd love

881
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: to hear both of you just kind of talk about

882
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: like the importance of her representation. That's very important. She's

883
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: also Caribbean, don't forget she's could listen now, I love it.

884
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: Dr A Yeah, I mean representation is important when you

885
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: when I was just looking at posts not only of

886
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, adult women and and you know what this

887
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: means for us, but all the posts about the little girls,

888
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: all the posts when you saw the little girls up

889
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: at the screens, and you know, the little girls saying

890
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: like and what whether that be little Black girls or

891
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: Southeast Asian girls right there just being able to kind

892
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: of say like, oh, Okay, this isn't as far fetched anymore. Right, So,

893
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: like I have, I have loved to see that kind

894
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: of joy and that kind of encouragement and that kind

895
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: of empowerment in terms of the imagery there. And what

896
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: I've also loved is that she has been willing and

897
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: open to speak directly to it, right, that it's not

898
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: just about her showing up in these ways and then

899
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: and then the government gets to kind of use her

900
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: right as that. But she has named black women in this.

901
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: She is talking about her Southeast Asian past, she is

902
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: talking about her mother, she is talking about her family lineage.

903
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: That's what feels really really important. That there is a

904
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: narrative that we can't make up and put on her

905
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: because she's not speaking about it. That's what I that

906
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: I even think is even more powerful than the imagery. Right,

907
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: but that she is calling this out and that would

908
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: be something that that sounds like it will be spoken

909
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: by both of them, her and President elect actively. And

910
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: that's what I'm looking forward to seeing. I'm not just

911
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: here as as a present and you get to project

912
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: all this stuff onto me. These are my words about

913
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: who I am. Dr A. I think, Oh my gosh,

914
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: so the same thing for me. Just the joy that

915
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: I feel when I see little girls, when I saw

916
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: the little girls looking at the television screen or seeing

917
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: these little girls on her lap, and just like you know,

918
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: just to be able to see yourself. And it's like, man,

919
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: she she is. She looks like she looks like me,

920
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: she talks like me, she smiles like me, she's snails

921
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: like me, all of that good stuff. And and so

922
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: I think exactly what you said, Dr A. Unlike the

923
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: Black Squares with about the caption, we're not just seeing

924
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: this and and having to make our own story or

925
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: our own narrative about it. Not only do we see it,

926
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: but she's speaking about it, and so we talk about representation.

927
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: I think about her, of course, you know, as a

928
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: woman of color, as a black woman. I think about

929
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: her as a woman who her mom being a Shamala

930
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: being a single parent and raising her. So also what

931
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: does that represent? And so little girls seeing that, although

932
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: it may be me and my three sisters, is like,

933
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: look at what she was able to do, and you know,

934
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: or or those whose fathers were not as present perhaps

935
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: in their in their lives. And so it's just representation

936
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: on all different hearts. And so finding a little piece

937
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: of herself saying oh wow, look at that. Oh that's

938
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: like my family. W wow, look at that and look

939
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: at where she is right now, and so the joy

940
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: that it brings me, but also from this side of us,

941
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: knowing how hard and how difficult it is for us

942
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: to get to certain places. You know, how many barriers, um,

943
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: you know we're in the way, you know, how we

944
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: can't just be enough or good enough. I mean you

945
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: have to really really over excel. And so to see

946
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: her carry all of that, carry it so well and

947
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: to be where she is, man, the joy, the joy,

948
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: the joy. Yeah, And I think I was thinking about that,

949
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: and this is not directly correlated with somewhat correlated. I

950
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: think early on, you know, there are these roles about

951
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, what women, you know, the occupations were supposed

952
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: to have. And even if it's like you know, you

953
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: know in in churches, perhaps you know, can a woman

954
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: be a pastor? And just so much like what you know,

955
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: what's a woman's job and what's the man's job? And

956
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: so here you are looking at one of the most

957
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: powerful positions in the country and seeing her a representation

958
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 1: of us in that position. Yeah, yeah, it is freeing

959
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: in so many ways, so many ways to completely agree

960
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: with everything. Yes, I joy is the perfect word to

961
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: to really kind of capture that feeling. So I really

962
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: appreciate you both for sharing so openly all of your

963
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: feelings and thought about all of this. Please let people

964
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: know where we can find you. Dr Joey, go ahead

965
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: and tell us your website as well as any social

966
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: media handles you'd like to share. Absolutely, so, I'm all

967
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: over social media. I ask Dr Joy. That's a s

968
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: k d R j o Y asked Dr Joy. That's

969
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 1: also my email address, and my website that's www. Dr

970
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: Joey book dot com. Perfect, dr A listen. Um So

971
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm my The name my practice is Ascension Behavioral Health

972
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: um so, my website is Essential Behavioral Health dot com. Um.

973
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: I do most of the running of my mouth on Instagram, So,

974
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 1: which is at doctor underscore ianna underscore a UM against

975
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: at d R underscore a Y A n n A

976
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: underscore a UM. I can be found on Facebook at

977
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Ascension Behavioral Health Perfect. Well, thank you both again. Like

978
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: I said, we will be including all of that information

979
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: in the show notes. Um and thank you again for

980
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: visiting with us. Thank you for having us. I'm so

981
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: glad that Dr Beckwith and Dr Abrams were able to

982
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: join us today. To learn more about them and their work,

983
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for

984
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session one, and don't forget

985
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: to text two sisters right now and tell them about

986
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: this episode. If there's a topic you'd like to have

987
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: covered on the podcast, be sure to submit it to

988
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mailbox.

989
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: And if you're looking for a therapist in your area,

990
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy

991
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory HMM. If you

992
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: want to continue digging into this topic and chat with

993
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: some other sisters in your area, come on over and

994
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take

995
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: a deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and

996
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 1: just about everything else. You can join us at Therapy

997
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank

998
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: you all so much for joining me again this week.

999
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

1000
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,