Speaker 1: Hey guys, Welcome to Hot Mikes. Please hit subscribe. One
Speaker 1: week ago, Hayden Pannetier was found unresponsive in a Greenville,
Speaker 1: South Carolina Airbnb nine one one was called by her
Speaker 1: boyfriend Brian Hickerson and his brother Zach, who attempted CPR
Speaker 1: until the paramedics arrived. She was pronounced dead forty minutes
Speaker 1: after that. Today, an exclusive interview with the girl next
Speaker 1: door who saw it all, Hayden's Hollywood neighbor, Mia Terrazas.
Speaker 1: We still don't have an exact cause of death for Hayden,
Speaker 1: but there is zero doubt in the hearts and minds
Speaker 1: of anyone who knew her, even in the slightest, that
Speaker 1: her eight year relationship with Brian Hickerson was the root cause.
Speaker 1: He was violent, abusive, and by all accounts, dangerous. You're
Speaker 1: about to hear MIA's account. But of course he was
Speaker 1: there when she died, because he could have been any
Speaker 1: number of times before when they were together. His history
Speaker 1: of abusing others, especially Hayden, was long inconsistent. In October
Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen, in Greenville, South Carolina, police responded to
Speaker 1: a domestic assault in progress, a call involving Brian Hickerson
Speaker 1: and his father, David. A reporting based on the incident
Speaker 1: said that officers saw Brian chasing David through a kitchen.
Speaker 1: The father, David, had apparent blood and bruising, but said
Speaker 1: his injuries came from a fall and he declined medical care.
Speaker 1: Hayden was there. She was listed as a witness no charges.
Speaker 1: It would appear that Brian's father refused to press May second,
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Los Angeles PD in Hollywood. The Hollywood arrested
Speaker 1: Brian on suspicion of felony domestic violence involving Hayden. This
Speaker 1: would not be the only time he was taken into custody,
Speaker 1: at about two twenty four in the morning. He was
Speaker 1: held on fifty thousand dollars bail and released a day later.
Speaker 1: It's believed that Hayden bailed him out. He was charged,
Speaker 1: he pleaded not guilty, and the case was later dismissed
Speaker 1: after prosecutors could not secure a material witness. Then, on
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, February fourteenth, twenty twenty, this one is in
Speaker 1: her book that came out this past May. This is
Speaker 1: me a reckoning by Hayden Pennetier Jackson Wyoming, Titon County.
Speaker 1: The Teiton Carrot. The Titan County Sheriff's office was notified
Speaker 1: of a disturbance at a Jackson home around one point
Speaker 1: fifty in the morning. Brian was arrested and booked on
Speaker 1: suspicion of domestic battery. The caller told police that an
Speaker 1: intoxicated man was locked out of the private residence because
Speaker 1: he had punched his girlfriend in the face. She told
Speaker 1: police that she had been in the bedroom with Hickerson
Speaker 1: when he quote started throwing her around and punching her.
Speaker 1: The documents state that Hayden's face was red and swollen
Speaker 1: and had a scrape and swelling on her left hand.
Speaker 1: Hickerson was released from jail on a five thousand dollars bond.
Speaker 1: Later that day, Ryan was in the driveway upon the
Speaker 1: deputy's arrival, and he claimed that Hayden was in the house,
Speaker 1: saying he beat the f out of me. Hickerson avoided
Speaker 1: answering questions about whether he punched the then thirty year
Speaker 1: old Hayden Pennettier. However, Hickerson claimed he hired a private
Speaker 1: chef to be there so he wouldn't be accused of
Speaker 1: all this bullshit. He said the police talked to the
Speaker 1: chef on the phone and were allegedly told that he
Speaker 1: left around one o'clock in the morning, so he wasn't there,
Speaker 1: although he did say in documents that the couple had
Speaker 1: been arguing earlier in the evening. July fourteenth, twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: Hayden files a restraining order against Brian. July sixteenth, twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: LA prosecutors filed a much broader eight count case covering
Speaker 1: a series of alleged incidents during their relationships, specifically the
Speaker 1: Wyoming assault on Hayden and the LA assault in Hayden's condo.
Speaker 1: All included four felony counts of injuring a spouse or girlfriend,
Speaker 1: two felony assault with a deadly weapon counts, one misdemeanor
Speaker 1: or a battery count, and critically one felony count of
Speaker 1: dissuading a witness from prosecuting a crime ie talking Hayden
Speaker 1: out of it. He was charged with eight counts, seven felonies,
Speaker 1: and one misdemeanor. Prosecutors specifically alleged that Brian Hickerson tried
Speaker 1: to prevent Hayden, identified as the victim of the witness,
Speaker 1: from causing a complaint or causing prosecution to proceed. April
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Brian Hickerson received forty five days in jail,
Speaker 1: four years of formal probation, fifty two domestic violence classes, restitution,
Speaker 1: and a five year protective order. Remaining counts were dismissed
Speaker 1: under the plea deal. Hayden made a statement saying that
Speaker 1: she was going public about this abuse to inspire others
Speaker 1: in abusive relationships to seek help. Quote, I'm prepared to
Speaker 1: do my part to make sure this man never hurts
Speaker 1: anyone again. She meant it. Then he faced up to
Speaker 1: ten years for his crimes, according to this story, Just
Speaker 1: three days before her death, Hickerson attempted to have those
Speaker 1: charges expunged from his record. He claims he had fulfilled
Speaker 1: the condition of his probations. In the August thirteenth hearing
Speaker 1: just ten days ago, prosecutors opposed the petition, citing his
Speaker 1: continued drug use. Neither Hickerson nor his lawyer were even present.
Speaker 1: They cited the TMZ video with Charlie Neff. You know
Speaker 1: this one? Anything before that you asked Hayden to keep
Speaker 1: out of the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you not want her to talk about?
Speaker 1: In the book. So there's a story where.
Speaker 2: I was drunk right Aiden was standing across room, and.
Speaker 1: I had a phone in my hand and I said, Hayden,
Speaker 1: I said, I'll give you ten seconds to run as
Speaker 1: fast as you can for throwed. You don't need a
Speaker 1: prosecutor to tell you. But the prosecutor did say during
Speaker 1: that interview, Hickerson speaks for fifteen minutes about the abuse
Speaker 1: that's been documented in Hayden's best selling book, and he
Speaker 1: makes several admissions about it. We all heard it. Brian
Speaker 1: Hickerson's apparent condition in the interview was especially significant to
Speaker 1: his requests. The prosecution added, because of his lawyer's representations
Speaker 1: that Hickerson is seeking this expungement because he's now sober.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Was also arrested in two separate incidents August second, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, at Barney's Beanery in West Hollywood, and that
Speaker 1: case was declined for prosecution due to insufficient evidence, and
Speaker 1: he was arrested again four days later on the August sixth,
Speaker 1: and charged with one misdemeanor count of being under the
Speaker 1: influence of a controlled substance. The DA's office told People
Speaker 1: magazine the court granted Hickerson judicial diversion and ordered him
Speaker 1: to compleat ten narcotics anonymous sessions, to obey all laws,
Speaker 1: and to refrain from any drugs or alcohol. The DA's
Speaker 1: office said, Brian Hickerson needs to complete all of that
Speaker 1: before he can be a free man. I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone has ever held Brian Hickerson to account. His book
Speaker 1: should be this is Brian, a reckoning that has yet
Speaker 1: to befall me. A very long rap sheet that paints
Speaker 1: the picture of a woman, a woman beating drunken, low
Speaker 1: life loser, of a man who, in my view, by
Speaker 1: the very nature of his violent and abusive ways, elevated
Speaker 1: the self esteem of Hayden Pannetier, a young woman who'd
Speaker 1: been drained of hers The only place that she could
Speaker 1: appear is the good one was standing next to him.
Speaker 1: Theirs was a totally toxic relationship. It thrived on the
Speaker 1: darkest of attachments. But Brian Hickerson is still out there.
Speaker 1: He's never been held truly to account, and he absolutely
Speaker 1: needs to be. The New York Times reporting now that
Speaker 1: Brian Hickerson tried to pawn some of Hayden's possessions, including
Speaker 1: a vintage guitar. She was shocked to find many of
Speaker 1: her possessions in his storage unit. The Times also is
Speaker 1: reporting he was banned from her book tour in May.
Speaker 1: Barnes and Nobles in New York City was given strict
Speaker 1: instructions not to allow Brian inside. Hayden also had personal
Speaker 1: security there at the time as well. Brian has not
Speaker 1: responded to that, and we'd like him to respond to
Speaker 1: a lot more, including that Miaterrazas lived to Hayden on
Speaker 1: the same side of the hall in their housing complex.
Speaker 1: She was the neighbor often kept awake in the wee
Speaker 1: hours of the morning by yelling, screaming, crying, crashing furniture.
Speaker 1: She and Hayden crossed paths often. Their parking spots are
Speaker 1: next to each other in the building. Pleased to welcome
Speaker 1: Mia to Rasis. Mia, thank you so much for spending
Speaker 1: some time with us. If I could just ask you
Speaker 1: off the bat, how did you receive the news that
Speaker 1: Hayden had died?
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I was very very upset,
Speaker 2: and I knew immediately that or I suspected that Brian
Speaker 2: was with her when she passed. It's just devastating to
Speaker 2: hear I had. I saw her on the elevator probably
Speaker 2: I want to say, eight days before she passed, and
Speaker 2: she was with Brian. But she seemed like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: just that she was a little bit more chipper or something.
Speaker 2: And yeah, this really shocking and and sad, but really
Speaker 2: not surprising given their history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe she was thinking this is the time that
Speaker 1: he will keep drinking, but not keep you know, committing
Speaker 1: the same behavior over and over again. When you, you
Speaker 1: and Hayden were friendly. You you know, when you when
Speaker 1: she first moved into the lofts where you live, I
Speaker 1: didn't did she invite you over? Did you? Did you
Speaker 1: strike up a bit of a friendship.
Speaker 2: She did invite me over, and I had met her previously,
Speaker 2: I you know, had a brief friendship with her mother,
Speaker 2: and I also knew Jansen and she had in a
Speaker 2: text message invited me over. And shortly after that I
Speaker 2: saw Brian, and you know, it was just really difficult
Speaker 2: to communicate with her after he showed up, so that
Speaker 2: get together never happened.
Speaker 1: Oh what was she? What was she like when he
Speaker 1: was not around? Did you did you get to interact
Speaker 1: with her in a way? Was she different when he
Speaker 1: was there as opposed to when he was not.
Speaker 2: She was very different. She just seemed like alive, and
Speaker 2: you know, whenever I would see her with Brian, she
Speaker 2: was just quite subdued and almost like her you know,
Speaker 2: body language was completely different, her mannerisms, just like in
Speaker 2: the way she spoke, and when she wasn't with him,
Speaker 2: she just seemed happier. And I don't know, she was
Speaker 2: just a real bit of a character I think in her,
Speaker 2: you know, because I'd see her taken out the trash
Speaker 2: and her pajamas and you know, things like.
Speaker 1: That, and she's just really sweet, cute personality. I mean,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with Hayden over the years,
Speaker 1: just many interviews and you know there for the entire
Speaker 1: n of Heroes in Nashville and all of that. But
Speaker 1: in her book she describes Brian as a doctor jackal
Speaker 1: and mister Hyde, always remorseful and apologetic after he sobered up.
Speaker 1: Did you ever interact with Brian when she was not around?
Speaker 2: I did. I At one time, he you know, I
Speaker 2: was going to take the elevator and he came and
Speaker 2: was also going to take the elevator, and I decided
Speaker 2: to take the stairs and It was just very odd
Speaker 2: because I have an excruciating, you know, neurological condition, and
Speaker 2: I was moving down the stairs very slowly, and he
Speaker 2: was right behind me and letting me know he was there.
Speaker 2: And another occasion, I asked him was he still living
Speaker 2: in the building and he told me yes, he was
Speaker 2: living in the building. And he said, I know Hayden
Speaker 2: has introduced us, and this was only a few months ago,
Speaker 2: so he should have known my name because I saw
Speaker 2: her plenty of times with him, And he said, Hayden
Speaker 2: introduced us, but I've forgotten your name. And I didn't
Speaker 2: answer him, and then he like started to walk after
Speaker 2: me and said, I didn't get your name. What is
Speaker 2: your name? And I just kept walking toward the elevator.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to engage him, but he could just
Speaker 2: be very intimidating. And then other times he seemed just
Speaker 2: completely out of it.
Speaker 1: What was he just like you could tell the substances
Speaker 1: were kind of always going.
Speaker 2: That's what it looked like to me. It looked at
Speaker 2: there was always some kind of substance and or potentially
Speaker 2: mental Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, after enough substances, yeah, I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: suppose yeah, he just yeah, he says it.
Speaker 2: I'm there are videos out there of him that he
Speaker 2: had himself as post and I think he describes who
Speaker 2: he is better than I could.
Speaker 1: And you talked to him the TMZ video where he's
Speaker 1: slurring and he seems to be on something. And this
Speaker 1: is back in May when the book came out, and
Speaker 1: he admits, you know, to abusing her. You know, right
Speaker 1: there in the interview, he seems to be on something.
Speaker 1: Is that something you've encountered before.
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah. I don't think I've ever encountered him where
Speaker 2: I thought he seemed like a you know, just an
Speaker 2: average person, or that he wasn't on something. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about the time you witnessed that
Speaker 1: Hayden was taken from the apartment complex on a gurney
Speaker 1: after a particular fight with Brian.
Speaker 2: I actually saw her being removed on a gurney twice
Speaker 2: within a couple of years, fan, And you know, although
Speaker 2: her her face was and you know, I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: it was necessarily beaten up, but I just saw red
Speaker 2: marks on her. And at one point, the fireman and
Speaker 2: EMT kept ringing the call box to try to get
Speaker 2: in and someone was not letting them in, and they
Speaker 2: were unable to access the door, and I ran downstairs
Speaker 2: and you know, let them in and rode up in
Speaker 2: the elevator with them. And I had tried talking to
Speaker 2: them at that that time. That was the second time
Speaker 2: she was removed, and I told them that I was
Speaker 2: very concerned and could she at least separate Brian from
Speaker 2: her so she could go on the ambulance alone or something.
Speaker 2: And I got mocked for that. It was like the
Speaker 2: EMT or the I can't recall if it was the
Speaker 2: EMT or the fireman. They were waiting for the elevator
Speaker 2: and he, you know, I waved motion to him and
Speaker 2: asking if he could come up first so I could
Speaker 2: speak with him, and he was like just acting very animated,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like, oh, you want to talk
Speaker 2: to me, and just yeah, it completely just dismissed any
Speaker 2: concerns that I that I had. And the reason I
Speaker 2: had asked, could you know, because I knew Brian wasn't
Speaker 2: was the one who was not allowing them into the building,
Speaker 2: and I had suspected perhaps she called the you know,
Speaker 2: the EMT or the fire because she didn't want to
Speaker 2: file another police report. But clearly she had red marks
Speaker 2: on her, and you know, I asked her if she
Speaker 2: was okay, and she said yes, but it didn't appear
Speaker 2: to me that she was. And Brian was hovering over
Speaker 2: the whole time.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get a chance to talk to her
Speaker 1: and be like, what do you what are you doing?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like your place to, I guess
Speaker 1: to you know, you hope family and friends and her
Speaker 1: best friends and you know, mom, dad, somebody is going
Speaker 1: to enter Jack and say you've got to get away.
Speaker 1: Did you ever say to her, you know, hey, he's
Speaker 1: not good for you. Stop you're you know, you're a
Speaker 1: sweet kid.
Speaker 2: I I did. I wouldn't say I directly said anything.
Speaker 2: I did, you know, just let her know that I
Speaker 2: was here and if she ever needed anything. And it's
Speaker 2: really interesting. I did try to broach that topic a
Speaker 2: couple of times, but it's like she just wasn't having it.
Speaker 2: For whatever reason. She couldn't hear anything, you know, discouraging
Speaker 2: about Brian. I don't know. I don't know what it was, honestly,
Speaker 2: So I figured that I had more of a chance of,
Speaker 2: you know, if she ever needed help, if I didn't,
Speaker 2: you know, tell her anything about that, or I just
Speaker 2: I could tell she just didn't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Essentially, did folks in the building talk about this? Did
Speaker 1: you see their neighbors and were they like, oh, Brian,
Speaker 1: you know everybody was he you know, one of those
Speaker 1: sort of constant, omnipresent type of evil characters in the building.
Speaker 2: He was, Yeah. I it certainly appeared that way since
Speaker 2: I work from home, and you know, I would just
Speaker 2: see him all the time, and it looked like he
Speaker 2: didn't have a job. At one point, you know, we
Speaker 2: had those posters up saying to call nine one one,
Speaker 2: and I saw him in the garage. They called the sheriff,
Speaker 2: and you know, I was texting with the HOA saying,
Speaker 2: you know, we have to get this character out of
Speaker 2: our building. And they told me he was going to
Speaker 2: rehab and you know, he wouldn't be around anymore. But
Speaker 2: I never saw him gone ever. I would just constantly
Speaker 2: see him, just, yeah, hanging around working on his car.
Speaker 2: He had fallen asleep in the car one time and
Speaker 2: it was all revved up and carbon monoxide filled the garage.
Speaker 2: And another time he was working on his He had
Speaker 2: an old Bronco and apparently when Hayden threw him out.
Speaker 2: He would have to live in the broncho. That's what
Speaker 2: I heard, because one of our HOA members said that,
Speaker 2: you know, at least he doesn't have to sleep in
Speaker 2: his car now, you know, since he's going to rehab.
Speaker 2: But he was like left his car running again with
Speaker 2: a carbon monoxide filling the garage.
Speaker 1: How did building management allow him when he's a terror
Speaker 1: to you know, everyone who lives there, to even be
Speaker 1: on premises. And you mentioned something about an HOA sign.
Speaker 1: What was that there was? What was the sign?
Speaker 2: Well, at one point they had put up signs and
Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure who put them up, but that
Speaker 2: you know, if we saw Brian anywhere on the property
Speaker 2: to call the sheriff immediately, to call nine one one,
Speaker 2: that he would be trespassing. And I would say. A
Speaker 2: week later, they started coming down and I had made
Speaker 2: copies and I tried hanging them up again and they
Speaker 2: would come right back down. And then I contacted the
Speaker 2: HOA Association several times and they said, you know that
Speaker 2: Hayden would be escorting him in the common areas. And
Speaker 2: at one point, you know, I had told one of
Speaker 2: the members that I hope that you know that I'm
Speaker 2: a CCW carrier, conciled carrier, and that I hoped if
Speaker 2: he ever did anything to me, I was a good
Speaker 2: enough shot to not kill him, you know, because I
Speaker 2: got I was that afraid of him. He's just always
Speaker 2: kind of it's hard to say why you're afraid of somebody,
Speaker 2: But he just gave me the willies from the day
Speaker 2: that I saw him, and then when I looked into
Speaker 2: his history. So yeah, but he seemed like a menace
Speaker 2: on the property, and I wondered why they didn't just
Speaker 2: force him out because I feel also like, you know,
Speaker 2: us as a community, we were telling Hayden that we
Speaker 2: accepted that, and you know, I thought, we need to
Speaker 2: come together as a community and say absolutely not, he's
Speaker 2: not going to be on our property. There was a
Speaker 2: no contact order that a judge had placed and it
Speaker 2: only ended in May of twenty twenty six, and you know,
Speaker 2: I would see him all the time up until you
Speaker 2: know that, up until she passed.
Speaker 1: You carried you have a concealed carrier, so you carry
Speaker 1: a firearm. Is he the reason for that or no?
Speaker 2: He he is not the reason. However, I have to
Speaker 2: say that when I knew he was in the building.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go downstairs to even take down the recycling
Speaker 2: or anything without my firearm on me. Yeah, I yeah,
Speaker 2: it just terrified me that that much. And I had
Speaker 2: warned someone else who was moving into the building. She
Speaker 2: has a very diminutive stature like Hayden, and I told her,
Speaker 2: you know, don't take this as my word, but look
Speaker 2: up his history and you'll see why. You just need
Speaker 2: to be careful on the garage and the common areas.
Speaker 1: How many times would you say and what you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the worst time when when you you could could
Speaker 1: you hear them, you know, fighting through the walls? Could
Speaker 1: you hear a row? Could you hear the arguing and
Speaker 1: the screaming? And you know, did others hear it? And
Speaker 1: how often?
Speaker 2: I'm uncertain if others heard it. It seemed like a
Speaker 2: topic that no one here really wanted to talk about.
Speaker 2: I would hear it frequently when I had my windows open,
Speaker 2: especially because I'm just you know, one unit away, and
Speaker 2: could definitely hear it. Just sounded like muffled screaming. I
Speaker 2: don't know. Sometimes there would be like loud noises there.
Speaker 2: I don't know. At one point he had ripped apart
Speaker 2: her apartment and made it uninhabitable with a sledgehammer. And
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't know after I found doubt about that,
Speaker 2: I didn't know if that's possibly what it was, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the noises. I was uncertain about that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it just sounded very like hostile.
Speaker 1: You're a nice woman, and you obviously you know, a
Speaker 1: good neighbor, and yet you there must be some a
Speaker 1: bit of a helpless feeling, because there's not You can't
Speaker 1: demand that he'd be taken away. You can't take out
Speaker 1: a restraining order, You can't you know, physically intervene. But
Speaker 1: it must have been you talk about when she died,
Speaker 1: you knew instinctively, Yeah, had to be Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely, that was my very first thought that
Speaker 2: he was there. And one can't help but wonder if he,
Speaker 2: you know, lured her away somehow, and you know, thinking
Speaker 2: that it would be investigated under such scrutiny, and you know,
Speaker 2: up until that time, I had called the non emergency
Speaker 2: Sheriff's office to find out what could be done about this,
Speaker 2: to keep this man out, And I called so many times,
Speaker 2: hoping for a different answer, and of course, you know,
Speaker 2: never I just couldn't do anything about it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I wasn't surprised. That was my first thought before they
Speaker 2: started announcing that, you know, he was present during the death.
Speaker 2: It's really tragic, and one wonders how he could not
Speaker 2: be involved given his past with her. That's my thought,
Speaker 2: how could he not be involved?
Speaker 1: You said you saw Hayden eight days before she died
Speaker 1: in the building. Was she with Brian at the time?
Speaker 2: She was? And I was surprised because the you know,
Speaker 2: just the dynamics between seemed a little bit different. Like
Speaker 2: I noticed she was more you know, just like distant
Speaker 2: from him and more engaged with me. And I was
Speaker 2: really paying attention to that, and I thought that, you know,
Speaker 2: the thought that occurred in my mind is maybe she's
Speaker 2: considering leading him. And that's why I was wondering if
Speaker 2: it had anything to do with, you know, their trip
Speaker 2: and her death, because I did feel that, you know,
Speaker 2: she was thinking about leaving him.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she never God, It's just I mean, look,
Speaker 1: you've lived some life, you have experienced like me. I
Speaker 1: you know, I've never been in a toxic relationship. But
Speaker 1: I you know, I said earlier, I was just you know,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, was thinking that she felt a deep
Speaker 1: sort of self loathing about herself. I mean, the moment
Speaker 1: in life that she has to get her child the
Speaker 1: way to the father because she, as the mother, you know,
Speaker 1: is not capable of taking care. There's got to be
Speaker 1: a deep hole that's almost impossible to fill, you know,
Speaker 1: after that in some sort of healthy way. And you
Speaker 1: see this guy Brian. I mean it's almost like he
Speaker 1: was by standing next to him, by comparison, almost like
Speaker 1: a seesaw effect. You know, she could feel good about
Speaker 1: herself because noobically is as bad as Brian, right, exactly,
Speaker 1: an unhealthy elevation of self esteem when you are suffering
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, seemed that she was really struggling with her
Speaker 2: her self esteem, you know, and just being confident, and
Speaker 2: I think also just having some type of imposter syndrome,
Speaker 2: like a lot of people in those positions do. And
Speaker 2: I think also just you know, people demanded so much
Speaker 2: of her and with her just everything that had happened.
Speaker 2: And it's my understanding that Vlad actually did not want
Speaker 2: the child to grow up with Brian because he knew that,
Speaker 2: you know, they were together, and that's why the child
Speaker 2: was taken by him to be raised by his mother.
Speaker 2: I've met his mother one time. We had gone to
Speaker 2: the airport to pick up Hayden, and I rode back
Speaker 2: with the mother and the baby, and she seemed like
Speaker 2: just such a wonderful I mean, those I think those
Speaker 2: guys are great from what I understand, but she just
Speaker 2: seemed like such a wonderful person. So I know she's
Speaker 2: in really good hands with with the mother.
Speaker 1: And when when when Leslie Vogel, Hayden's mother, and they
Speaker 1: had they had their own issues in their in their relationship.
Speaker 1: She documents it in the book, you know, but when
Speaker 1: she was around, or Hayden's father Skip, when he was around.
Speaker 1: Was Brian ever there? When when either of the parents
Speaker 1: were there, or was that his time to step back?
Speaker 2: I never met Skip at one point, I would say
Speaker 2: about approximately four months. Well maybe no, this might have
Speaker 2: been Yeah, it was probably longer. It was probably almost
Speaker 2: a year ago that I saw Leslie in the garage
Speaker 2: with Hayden and they were both talking to Brian. But
Speaker 2: then the sheriff came and you know, told him to
Speaker 2: leave the premises, and it just was a very yeah,
Speaker 2: I was very contentious between you know, Hayden and Leslie,
Speaker 2: it appeared to be god.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, an actress, an actor or an actress,
Speaker 1: you know, they're in the attention business, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean that your eyeballs is what they you know,
Speaker 1: they crave your attention. They performed, you know, for people.
Speaker 1: And you know, Brian's attention on her was constant, never healthy,
Speaker 1: it seems, but constant, malevolent, but obsessive. And you know,
Speaker 1: if if attention is what you're after, this guy seemed
Speaker 1: all consumed with her, and it feels so twisted and backwards,
Speaker 1: but it's.
Speaker 2: It's very twisted and backwards. And honestly, I don't ever
Speaker 2: you know, usually when you look at a couple and
Speaker 2: you can see or you know, sent some type of
Speaker 2: energy between them. And I personally never observed him caring
Speaker 2: for her in any way. He didn't seem to contribute
Speaker 2: in any way. And I often wondered if you know,
Speaker 2: he just got lucky and met her and it gave
Speaker 2: him a place to live and you know, something to do.
Speaker 1: That's one of reload off of I mean the New
Speaker 1: York Times. The New York Times just reported that you
Speaker 1: know that they many of her possessions were in a
Speaker 1: storage locker of herse. He took a guitar from her,
Speaker 1: she took possessions and she found out about it, and
Speaker 1: she you know, I don't know why she would act
Speaker 1: surprised but also never caring for her. I mean, you
Speaker 1: know when he when when they called nine one one
Speaker 1: and you know, paramedics came and they were trying to
Speaker 1: save Hayden's life. It's you know, the report is police
Speaker 1: report says that Zach was an NBC reported that Zach,
Speaker 1: Brian's brother, was consumed with emotion while they were trying
Speaker 1: to save and Brian had none until after they pronounced
Speaker 1: her dead, which means he either finally got hit with
Speaker 1: some some type of reality connected with him, or he
Speaker 1: had seen her in this position so many times before
Speaker 1: him and like, ah, she'll get out, I mean, she'll
Speaker 1: survi credically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard about that. They've told several sorry I
Speaker 2: mean interrupt, They've told several stories about that. And my
Speaker 2: first thought was did he show relief after she was
Speaker 2: pronounced dead? Did he do something to her and then
Speaker 2: you know, showed emotion dead. No, she couldn't tell about it.
Speaker 2: Maybe perhaps he was you know, not showing emotion because
Speaker 2: he was fearful of what she might say, you know,
Speaker 2: about what had happened. I just found that very odd.
Speaker 2: That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we were saying three days before she died,
Speaker 1: he was trying to get his record expunged exactly. He
Speaker 1: attempted to have the charges against him from you know,
Speaker 1: all of those beatings expunged, had his claims, you know,
Speaker 1: he claims he had fulfilled the conditions of his probation,
Speaker 1: and three days before or in the hearing, prosecutors opposed
Speaker 1: the petition, citing his continued drug use and all of that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, he was they had major legal issues between
Speaker 1: them at the time that she got on a plane
Speaker 1: and went to South Carolina with him.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, it's my belief that they, as far as
Speaker 2: I can tell, they never lived apart. And you know,
Speaker 2: she was saying that because she went to promote her
Speaker 2: book and go back to movies and you know it,
Speaker 2: and it's really hard to tell people that you're living
Speaker 2: with someone who, in her words, had you know, beat
Speaker 2: her her face so badly she couldn't leave her apartment
Speaker 2: for weeks. And you know, it's that's just my opinion
Speaker 2: that you know, she wanted to promote her book because
Speaker 2: she said that she had left him and didn't want
Speaker 2: him to hurt anyone else. It's it's just such a tragedy.
Speaker 2: And I just don't understand, you know, my interactions with him.
Speaker 2: I just felt like there was just nothing, nothing interesting
Speaker 2: or engaging about him or you know, compelling enough, and
Speaker 2: it seemed like he's so he's not even yet like
Speaker 2: enough of a personality to be a you know, a
Speaker 2: whole person. That that was just my interactions and my
Speaker 2: thoughts about him.
Speaker 1: I'm going to share something that that I spoke. I
Speaker 1: know a woman who had dated Brian Hickerson years ago,
Speaker 1: another woman who and I asked her, you know, I
Speaker 1: was told and I reached out and I asked her
Speaker 1: about Brian, and she shared a text and it said
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I was abusive. This is him sending it
Speaker 1: to her. I'm sorry I was abusive. You are nothing
Speaker 1: but kind and I'm sorry I treated you the way
Speaker 1: I did, to which she responded, who is this? And
Speaker 1: he sends Brian Hickerson And she says, look, I hope
Speaker 1: you find some kind of healing so you don't hurt
Speaker 1: anyone else, But you need to lose this number and
Speaker 1: do not text me again. Well, well handled. And then
Speaker 1: he said, Hayden told me I should reach out to you.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry one hundred percent, I will lose your number,
Speaker 1: and then apparently tried calling and sent a message right
Speaker 1: after saying sorry, that was Hayden calling you. So there
Speaker 1: she was trying to help him, you know, allegedly make
Speaker 1: amends with someone else. He'd been abusive too, so he's
Speaker 1: clearly just you know, and you know, he chased his
Speaker 1: father around and beating him when Hayden was a witness.
Speaker 1: So he was abusive, you know, across the board. But
Speaker 1: there's there's another woman, and I'm sure there are others.
Speaker 1: And the fact that this son of a b is
Speaker 1: running around still without his own reckoning, the law enforcement
Speaker 1: has failed to you know, take a long track record
Speaker 1: and do something about this guy. I mean, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't understand it. I never saw an
Speaker 2: ounce of remorse in him. He just seemed to. At
Speaker 2: one point, I remember walking in the garage and it
Speaker 2: was almost like he was trying to stare me down
Speaker 2: and intimidate me, or you know, the time that he
Speaker 2: followed me down the stairs and again, I'm going extremely
Speaker 2: slow because I'm in severe pain, and I just felt
Speaker 2: like he was He's very arrogant and he just wants
Speaker 2: to have his way with everything and I'm sorry. When
Speaker 2: someone's sorry, they don't do it again. And he had
Speaker 2: years to, you know, stop these types of behaviors. He
Speaker 2: was in a bar brawl just around the corner at
Speaker 2: the Sunset Marquis around the corner from here. That was
Speaker 2: all over the news, and you know, he clearly just
Speaker 2: he didn't care about really about anything except himself. You know,
Speaker 2: I can't help but wonder if Hayden put him up
Speaker 2: to that and he did it just to appease her.
Speaker 2: One of my clients, who was an attorney was there
Speaker 2: at the at the bar, and she conveyed a story
Speaker 2: that he, as she put it, lobbed a loogie on
Speaker 2: on her and got upset at her, and then there
Speaker 2: was some words said about somebody not leaving a large
Speaker 2: enough tip and she ran out of the bar. She
Speaker 2: was terrified and he chased her down and that's when
Speaker 2: the fight occurred. I'm not even clear if it actually
Speaker 2: started with her, but yeah, it was just a story
Speaker 2: that was conveyed to me. And I have no reason
Speaker 2: to not believe it.
Speaker 1: The number one reason that Hayden suffered, you know, being
Speaker 1: hired later on, you know, after Nashville and in the
Speaker 1: last several years, is him and you know, wanting to work.
Speaker 1: And you know, in a very competitive field, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of actresses. She's got a leg up being
Speaker 1: Hayden penet here. But you know it's amazing, not even
Speaker 1: that your craft, what you love to do, you know,
Speaker 1: how you work, is completely impeded because what relationship. Every
Speaker 1: director knows, every person, everyone sees that DMZ Video couldn't
Speaker 1: get it out of her own way because of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was showing up with her on sets and
Speaker 2: you know, with her work, and why would anyone show
Speaker 2: up with her? And you know that's that's just jealousy
Speaker 2: and stocking in my mind. And she didn't seem to
Speaker 2: want to be with him some of the time, when
Speaker 2: you know i'd see her leading in a you know,
Speaker 2: limo or something like that, she didn't want to seem
Speaker 2: to be with him.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Mia t rasas she was Hayden Pennetaire's
Speaker 1: neighbor lived one unit away in their apartment complex for
Speaker 1: many many years, so she knew her well. And you
Speaker 1: talked about the garage before your parking space. I understand
Speaker 1: it was next to Hayden's because of the location, you know,
Speaker 1: of the apartments. And you said, I think, is it
Speaker 1: Monday morning after the announcement of her death, her parking
Speaker 1: space there was a car in it that you had
Speaker 1: never seen before. What do you make of that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, because it would have arrived very early
Speaker 2: in the morning. So I saw the car there, and
Speaker 2: you know, i'd walked down to look at her apartment,
Speaker 2: you know, and I heard someone speaking in the apartment,
Speaker 2: and then a couple hours later I went down, you know,
Speaker 2: to see if I could still hear a voy there.
Speaker 2: And I had noticed that their their ring camera had
Speaker 2: been ripped, tried to be ripped from the wall, that
Speaker 2: someone had placed black electrical tape over the speaker and
Speaker 2: the camera. And I don't have any idea what was
Speaker 2: going on. The car's now gone, and no, no, I
Speaker 2: was just concerned that perhaps someone you know, was going
Speaker 2: through her things and taking things out of the apartment.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I would always see they dropped
Speaker 2: the packages, you know, downstairs and in the lobby and
Speaker 2: we kind of have to go through them and see
Speaker 2: which are ours, because they're just put on a big table.
Speaker 2: And I would see packages to Brian all the time,
Speaker 2: addressed to Hayden's address, and I saw one the day
Speaker 2: after she passed. Actually that was delivered the day after
Speaker 2: she passed, addressed to Brian. So yeah, I have no
Speaker 2: idea who was in that apartment.
Speaker 1: Did any did his authorities take take the package away?
Speaker 1: Or is it is it still there?
Speaker 2: Is it it's gone? Yeah, I don't know who picked
Speaker 2: it up, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Ring camera ripped from the ring camera ripped from the wall,
Speaker 1: black tape over the camera lens.
Speaker 2: Somebody, Yeah, had tried to rip it off, exactly.
Speaker 1: Did and you hear somebody in the apartment. Did you
Speaker 1: ever see that person come out?
Speaker 2: No? I didn't see. I didn't see who it was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean the only I tried to imagine who might
Speaker 2: have a key I thought didn't look like Leslie's cark,
Speaker 2: or she could have driven up in a different car.
Speaker 2: But is that car stayed for a couple of nights
Speaker 2: and it didn't didn't seem to move, So yeah, I
Speaker 2: just found that interesting. And I that was the first
Speaker 2: I heard at the onset of your show about Brian
Speaker 2: with the guitar and pawning things, and I thought either
Speaker 2: he sent someone there to get things out or you know,
Speaker 2: clean out the apartment to sell off her items. That
Speaker 2: was my first thought.
Speaker 1: He's in South Carolina in Greenville, but you know, maybe
Speaker 1: who knows, I mean just riffing here, but maybe sent
Speaker 1: somebody to the apartment to.
Speaker 2: To remove I wouldn't doubt it. Unfortunately, Yeah, we.
Speaker 1: May not ever know what is the what's the traffic
Speaker 1: like in the apartment now? Is it? Is it quiet?
Speaker 1: Is abandoned? Has have authorities been in and out? Is
Speaker 1: there anyone there?
Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, one's no one's there.
Speaker 2: It looks like it's been quiet for you know, for
Speaker 2: a while now. So it's a mystery to me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I know at one point she had
Speaker 2: I believe that she did not have a mortgage note
Speaker 2: on that that unit, because you know, they purchased it
Speaker 2: when her family came from New York and Hayden was
Speaker 2: new to Hollywood, and she had it for many years
Speaker 2: and then moved her mother out, and then she moved
Speaker 2: in I think about four or five years ago, and
Speaker 2: at one point, I know it was transferred into Brian's name,
Speaker 2: which was very concerning to me. And it was just
Speaker 2: an accident how I even found that out. But yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was really I'm just feel concerned for that,
Speaker 2: and I hope that's not the case.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's still in his name.
Speaker 2: I wondered about that. Yeah, I was more, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: was more trying to find out just about his is
Speaker 2: when I first started looking up his you know, legal history.
Speaker 1: And yeah, well, Mina Trasis, I'm sorry for you. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you had to witness all of this stuff
Speaker 1: and could never see, you know, the outcome that everyone
Speaker 1: wanted to see, and that is her to be able
Speaker 1: to get away from this person and to say lose
Speaker 1: my number like this other you know woman did.
Speaker 2: Well. I hadn't heard about that before. It really is.
Speaker 2: It just makes you wonder how much Hayden was you know,
Speaker 2: suffering to after you know, losing her child and her work.
Speaker 2: And I remember at one point I became just very
Speaker 2: upset and I told my husband how angry I was.
Speaker 2: I said, you know, she's lost everything over this man,
Speaker 2: and like he can't even form a coherent sentence or
Speaker 2: show any empathy or like he just has this like
Speaker 2: flat affect, like a you know, psychopath or something. And
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine who would give up their life
Speaker 2: or someone like that who didn't contribute anything. It was devastating.
Speaker 1: He's a Yeah, sponge, did your husband ever have any
Speaker 1: interaction with with Brian himself?
Speaker 2: He not that I'm aware of, but I know he
Speaker 2: did see him in the building a couple of times.
Speaker 2: And you know, my husband is a medical doctor, but
Speaker 2: he studied psychiatry a long time ago when he first
Speaker 2: was you know, doing his residencies, and he said that,
Speaker 2: like he just there's something not right about in his
Speaker 2: opinion about Brian, and he said, be careful, you know,
Speaker 2: going into the garage or in the building. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was worried about me, even though you know, I,
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, I carry a you know, glock pistol
Speaker 2: with me and every time in the building after I
Speaker 2: knew Brian was here, but he was concerned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet well, Mia, I can't thank you enough
Speaker 1: for sharing your insight. We're all grieving Aiden Bennettier. She
Speaker 1: was such a sweet, sweet kid. I liked her a lot.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm just I'm so said it ended this way,
Speaker 1: but thank you for your insight.
Speaker 2: All yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: And let's just hope that they investigate this thoroughly and
Speaker 2: find out what really happened. And you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know if they'll ever really be closure, but I guess
Speaker 2: that's about as close as you could get as you know,
Speaker 2: having some definitive answer to what occurred there and and
Speaker 2: who it occurred around. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you Mia. Well, okay, you know
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's you know, you hear these stories
Speaker 1: all the time, and you know when it's Hayden Penetier
Speaker 1: or somebody you kind of you know who grew up
Speaker 1: in front of our eyeballs, you know you feel connected
Speaker 1: to it, and I certainly do, and it is absolutely heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: But as the details come out, I hope the investigation
Speaker 1: is thorough and I'm going to say it, I hope
Speaker 1: there is a reckoning for this guy because he is
Speaker 1: absolutely a low life of the highest order. How he
Speaker 1: gained such proximity to her in such a SPHINALI like
Speaker 1: grasp you know, over her is uh is heartbreaking, really
Speaker 1: is Thanks for being with us on hot mics. We're
Speaker 1: very grateful to Mia t Razis, Hayden Pennett here rest
Speaker 1: in peace. Please hit subscribe and that's it. Bye bye,