1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey there, welcome to Stuff about your mind. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Julie Here. Robert is out this week with his son 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: who has undergone surgery and is doing well. So we 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: decided to present a classic episode The Werewolf Principle, in 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: which we discussed the ideal astronaut and how we can 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: tinker with our humanness to adapt ourselves to space. Latest 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: will be discussed a positive attitude, of course, not to 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: mention becoming a cyborg. Julie. There is a book I 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: read a little while back, and it's reference to the 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: title of this podcast, UM The Werewolf Principle by Clifford D. Simmic, 12 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: and I find it really interesting. It's not perhaps not 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: Simmic's best works, and he's probably best known for a 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: book called City, which one Hugo Award, But it's kind 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: of like they came up to the Clifford, you know, 16 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: really established us sci fi dude, and they said, hey, 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: we want you to write, um a novel about wherewolves 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: from space? And then he set out and wrote the 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: most intelligent, interesting take on that concept possible, instead of 20 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: it just being where wolves landing and running around howling 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: it things, um it involved a guy. Yeah, yeah, which 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: gets into the interesting argument that I've always wondered. It's like, 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: what if what would happen to a werewolf landed on 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: the moon. Would they be aware a wolf all the time? 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: Would they be affected by what the Earth was doing? 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: Would it be howling all the time? Yeah? Yeah, interesting 27 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: But but but Clifford, the simics, the whole take was 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: that he decided to make this a person who had 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: been engineered to adapt to different environments and sent off 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: into space. So he goes to, if you were to 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: land on Mars, his body would rapidly change so that 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: he could know live on Mars, um et cetera. And anyway, 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: he's returned to Earth and he's he keeps changing into 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: these previous forms. Uh, And that's the base. There's also 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: something really like that, like humans live in houses that 36 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: can fly around and there, and they're brownies like little 37 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: um creatures that live in the woods. So isn't he 38 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: like two hundred years old or something by the time 39 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: he returns. Yeah yeah, yeah, so he's got he's got 40 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: a lot of living. Yeah, but it's it's such a form. 41 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: But at hard it's such a fascinating concept because, uh, 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: we're we still talk about tera forming a lot. We 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: talk about I mean, one of the basic models of 44 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: space flight is let's take a little bubble of our 45 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: environment and let's blast it up into into orbit. Because 46 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: we are ultimately we're creatures that can that are that 47 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: have evolved to live only in a very small region 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: of our own atmosphere, just a small portion of of 49 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: the Earth's crust, because the crust also some definitions includes 50 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: the atmosphere. So so we're only really supposed to live 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: in this one little section. But we keep pushing the boundaries. 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: You know, we want to climb on Everest, we want 53 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: to to live in space, and then we want to 54 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 1: have our little environment when we're in orbit. We want 55 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: to turn Mars into Arizona. Uh and uh and and 56 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: and and and you see these fantastic science fician visions, um, 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: where we've gone out and done that to all these 58 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: different worlds where we we just find you know, exo 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: planet after exo planet, change it into into Florida, change 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: it into a vacationville, right right. Um, we're looking at you, 61 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: Richard Branson. But and then do you think, okay, well, 62 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean fish. They're not doing this. They're not saying, Wow, 63 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: I wish I could live on land run and have 64 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: these gills. You know, how do I come up with 65 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: some sort of lung situation here? Right? They ended up evolving, 66 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: adapting over time and uh and reaching the point where 67 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: they where something could not return to the water. Uh. 68 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: And and so you run into this interesting argument of 69 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: what should we be doing to evolved to our setting 70 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: and as opposed to changing our setting to to to 71 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: adhere to our demands? Right, And of course the astronaut 72 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: is like the perfect specimen to look at this whole 73 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: argument with, right, Yeah, it's they're not very ideal in 74 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: terms of trying to actually explore space and nothing against them, yeah, 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: getting in the way. Well, that's actually a good place 76 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to start, Like what is the ideal astronaut given what 77 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,559 Speaker 1: we currently know about you know about about sending people 78 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: into orbit um. One of the more interesting things is 79 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: that you want somebody with ideal methane output of course. Yeah. 80 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: And of course, for I think we all know what 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm talking about farts of course in space. And when 82 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: you see ideal, I think you mean minimum minimum um. Yeah, 83 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: because at first of the methane is it's flammable, so 84 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: you don't want you have a closed environment. You don't 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: want like a lot of gas going off in there 86 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: and potentially catching on fire while guys are carrying off 87 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, experiments, etcetera, plus the whole psychological thing. If 88 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: you're going to be stuck in a spacecraft for six months, 89 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily want to be gas and people out 90 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: right right right. There's a govern name of Edwin Murphy, 91 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: and he did some he conducted some research on this. 92 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: Uh and this is this is really anoting it was. 93 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: It was. There's a whole chapter dealing with with this 94 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: topic and Mary Roach's latest book UM about Mars and 95 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: the Space the space program. So Murphy used an experimental 96 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: bean meal and he fed it to volunteers who had 97 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: been rigged to a erectal catheter uh to uh and 98 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: and to to measure how much gas was going out 99 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: uh and he was he was interested in individual differences, 100 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: not just the the overall volume, but in you know, 101 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: the percentage of methane in the game in the the 102 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: the flattest I believe it's the flattest technical term for it, 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: because if you're writing a scientific you know, um, discussion 104 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: on something you don't want to just you know, keep 105 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: saying the farts over again part doesn't cut it. Yeah 106 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: in sert cheese joke here Yeah, uh so. Um, but 107 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: what he found was really interesting. Uh he found out 108 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: that about half the population doesn't produce methane in there. Um. 109 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: I thought that was incredible because it was something about 110 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: like their their bacterial flora. Yeah, it's and it's great, 111 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: and it's important to know that methane itself is like 112 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: a it's not methane doesn't stink. Okay, there are other 113 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: things at work in one's digestion besides methane production. Um. 114 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: So it's not something where you can where where these 115 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: people are not creating or uh you know, emanating or 116 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: expressing express thing flattist, though he did apparently claim that 117 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: one he found one individual who was quote flattist free, 118 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: which just sounds I just I don't I didn't even 119 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: think that was possible. I mean, can you imagine, I 120 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: mean you can put that on your resume? Yeah, I 121 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: mean people would or would they hate you? I don't know. 122 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: I would kind of I would feel like like if 123 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: someone if I was in a position to hire somebody 124 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: and be like, oh, by the way, I'm flattist free. 125 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: I would be like, well, I'm not hiring you, jerk. 126 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna set around just make us look bad. Yeah, yeah, 127 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah, we could never blame anything on you. Yeah, yeah, 128 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: I just can't. It would happen and like we do. 129 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: We just said they're all smug like and just it 130 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: would be horrible. Yeah, but you could always be an astronaut. Yes, 131 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: being an astronaut would be great because because there wouldn't 132 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: be any concerned with methane at all. Um. So, Murphy's 133 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: whole argument was, hey, NASA, you need to focus on 134 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: getting astronauts who have the proper um flattest output for space. 135 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: You want to want people that are that are producing 136 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: the less hostile flattest and only those people. Everybody else 137 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: you're you're out of the pool. Yeah. And then NASA 138 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: was like, no, we're just gonna not serve beans, that's right, 139 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: No cabbage, broccoli. I think we're going to get the 140 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: go the easier route. Yeah. And actually, this guy to um, 141 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: if I understand this correctly from Mary Riches book, he 142 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: was like a flattest researcher, Like he was employed as 143 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: a flattest reacher researcher, and only a plattest research. This 144 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: was his life work. Yes, yeah, so you can can 145 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: imagine why he took it so seriously and and didn't 146 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: he even uh insert the rectal cath Yes, she actually 147 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: talked about that, the rectal catheter. Yeah. I mean it's 148 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: we're we're laughing, but it's you know, it's a it's 149 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: an important area of study if you're talking about sending 150 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: guys up in gals up into space in this little, 151 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: tiny environment. But it's but this is cost it's also 152 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: like one of the first like real you know moments 153 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: like which way are we gonna go? Are we gonna 154 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: gonna gonna change our environment? Are gonna change us? And 155 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: this was a chance to not really change us, but 156 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: to you know, selectively choose. And I mean granted there 157 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: there are you know, minimal requirements for for astronauts and 158 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: and uh members of any you know, space program stuff 159 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: like um you know, you know, I sight blood pressure height. Um. 160 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: You know obviously that they tend to go for people 161 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: who have at least a bachelor's degree in some sort 162 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: of science or engineering. Our mathews. Yeah, so and and 163 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: you have to have kind of a happy, go lucky disposition, right. Yeah, 164 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: and even like space tourism, most of them models we're 165 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: looking at, even the ones like you know, even like 166 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: the Branson's whole whole space tourm tourism deal. As as 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: much as they're going to try and cater that to 168 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: to make make it available to everybody, Uh, the certain 169 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: people are just not going to be eligible to go 170 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: into space, right, So people who have a fear of flying, right, 171 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: I think are going to be cut off the list. Yeah. 172 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: But but this is a case where where NASA could 173 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: could either have have have said, yes, we're gonna go 174 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: after the people who who have minimal flatt us you 175 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: know in our o methane producers um, and they said, no, 176 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: we're going to change the meal plant. So it's so practical. 177 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: So so other areas that the mary roach brings up. 178 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: Bone mass, of course is a big deal if you're 179 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: gonna lose bone mass if the more you're in a 180 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: in a in a microgravity environment. Yeah, and actually that 181 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: I mean the staff that I saw in that was 182 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: astronauts lose one to two percent of their bone mass 183 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: for each month they spend in spe that's quite a bit. Yeah, 184 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: and uh and but but the interesting thing is that 185 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: black women, for instance, are seven to denser in their 186 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: bones than than than wider Asian women. And uh, of 187 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: course Mary didn't have the the data for men, just 188 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: for the women, and I've seen that's tied to osteoporosis research. 189 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: But but conceivably, um black men would also have better 190 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: bone density than wider Asian men. So so it ends 191 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: up creating an interesting argument there should we only be 192 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: using um minimal flatt us black astronauts, you know? Why not? 193 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Why not? Yeah, if they're gonna be more suited for space. 194 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: And you can take this even one step farther, and 195 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: that is that maybe they should all be deaf, because 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: because you know, if anybody's ever had motion sickness, be 197 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: it on a boat, in the car, etcetera, you know, 198 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: it's you get kind of nauseous. Next thing, you know, 199 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: you're throwing up into the the floorboard of the vehicle. 200 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: And it's an inner ear thing. And I think it 201 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: used to think it was tied to the stomach, but 202 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: it's not. It's tied to inner ear and uh and 203 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: and many people argue that it's kind of a mistake 204 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: of evolution, because vomiting, as much as we may hate it, 205 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: does serve a number of really key functions. You know, 206 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: you eat something and it's bad, it's poisonous, you barf 207 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: it up, start over um and and actually animals that 208 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: don't vomit, I mean that becomes a problem because if 209 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: they eat something they should eat a belief. Horses are 210 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: like this, Uh, they eat something they shouldn't eat. They 211 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: can't vomit it up. It's it's you know, it's more 212 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: of a it becomes a real problem with discomfort, right, Yeah, 213 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: because like with kids, right, if a kid eats something 214 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: they're not supposed to. A child, not a goat. If 215 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: a child eat something that he or she is not 216 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: supposed to, you can always there's the vomiting, right, you 217 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: can give them epicac or something, right. Uh. And I'm 218 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: thinking about this too, like this is sort of accident 219 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: of nature, right, because whatever controls our vomiting response is 220 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: near our inner ear or function or something along this time. Sorry, 221 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: I don't have the correct terminology, but I sort of 222 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: scan that remembering. Okay, so that's why we sometimes vomit 223 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: because we're Yeah, but it serves no evolutionary you know, 224 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: there's no reason for it. It's like I'm feeling kind 225 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: of motion sickness and my body's like we have to 226 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: vomit now, you know, there's no Yeah, it serves no 227 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: like evolutionary advantage. UM. So the only way to a 228 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: completely get rid of motion sickness is um is for 229 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: the human have a non functioning inner ear. And uh 230 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: so you we can see within go for deaf people. 231 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: So all black death astronaut crew with minimal flattus, all right, 232 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: I mean it could happen. I guess the problem is 233 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: is that you just keep narrowing the pool to the 234 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: point where it's probably harder and harder to get astronauts 235 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: right unless you create and this is I'm throwing this 236 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: out there is like a future kind of thing and 237 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: and and kind of a potentially scary eugenics kind of thing. 238 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: But like then you create a breeding program, right just 239 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: for astronauts, just to encourage the traits. I mean, we 240 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: do it. We've done it with dogs and that has 241 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: some horrible effects and many times. But conceivably, it seems 242 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: to me you could you could have a breeding program 243 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: similar to the you know, like something out of dune 244 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: where you're just breeding for ideal astronauts and and so 245 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: it's like a genetic, you know, hereditary thing. You create 246 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: an entire cast or subspecies of astronauts. I know. And 247 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking now, like the Island of Misfits and 248 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: we have bread nose reindeer in the elphit wanted to 249 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: be a dentist, Like there might be that person that's 250 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: bread to you know, do this and guess you know what, 251 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to. I really want to go to space. Thanks. Yeah, 252 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: but then when you have to sit down with and 253 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: be like like but dude, listen, listen like you well, 254 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: don't listen, like read the words from the writing because 255 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: you're deaf, because we bread for that. You know. It's 256 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: like your your death, your bone density is incredible, your 257 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: you have no methane when you when you when you 258 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: break wind, like this is this is for you. But 259 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: they're like, no, I really really want to be an artist. 260 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: But what do you do? Yeah? Right, I guess what 261 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: it's time to take a break. We get back. We 262 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: will talk more about the werewolf persiple. So there's that 263 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: that viewpoint like what if we so you know, step 264 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: one we we only choose the people that are ideal 265 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: for space. And then okay, we can take that a 266 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: step farther. What if we we bred people for space? 267 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: But then then the next step is, what if we 268 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: engineered people for space? What if we made them, um 269 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: adapt or made them better? We adapted them and to 270 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: the cyborg yes, um, And like a simple version of 271 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: it would be like if you just made people deaf 272 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: before we sent into space, which is kind of horrifying, 273 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure a lot of people go for that. 274 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: They might, I don't know, but there are a number 275 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: of interesting changes that could that could take place that 276 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: would be less scary, though some of them are pretty scary. Um. 277 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: So let's look get the cyboard now that this is 278 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: a term that is preloaded these days, because when when 279 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: when I say cyborg, what do you think of? Well, 280 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: I think of the terminating I think he's technically yeah, 281 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: he was more of a robot covered with flesh, with 282 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: flesh um Darth Vader. Yeah, I think Darth Vader was 283 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: pretty cybernetic in his state. Um RoboCop. Perhaps the cyborg. 284 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of foggy on the explanations in the 285 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: first two movies. But but yeah, you get this idea. 286 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: It's like a human being that has been augmented terrifically 287 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: or terrifyingly with machines. Six million dollar Man, six million 288 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: dollar man is is a prime example on the cyborg Yeah. 289 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: But but again, this is kind of a term that's 290 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: gon been taken by by science fiction and and just 291 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: sort of they run wild with it. So now you 292 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: just think of like man with half metal face kind 293 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: of thing. The term actually originates back in nineteen sixty 294 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,479 Speaker 1: September of nineteen sixty in UH an edition of Astronautics. 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: And this was an article by men manfred E. Kleins 296 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: and Nathan S. Klein uh one with a C, the 297 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: second with a K, and it was titled Cyborgs in 298 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: Space and it's a great read. I will have to 299 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: throw up a link to it on the the accompanying 300 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: blog post when this podcast comes out. Um, but they may, 301 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: they just may. May. They make the huge argument that 302 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: like here's just a quote from it. It It really sums 303 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: it up. In the past, evolution brought about the altering 304 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: of bodily functions to suit different environments. Starting as of now, 305 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: it will be possible to achieve this to some degree 306 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: without alteration of heredity by suitable biochemical, physiological, and electronic 307 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: modifications of man's existing um bodies. So and so, what 308 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: I thought was kind of cool about this too is 309 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: that it's not necessarily that they felt like they were 310 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: changing humans, but that they were improving humans so that 311 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: they could explore more and they could have more independence 312 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: to to create more and to think more if they 313 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: if they weren't um burdened by their own physicality. Right, 314 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: and you in pulinding, people make the argument that the 315 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: cyborg has been around for ages. Right, the second that 316 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: we skinned an animal and started wearing its fur cyborg. Second, 317 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: with the second we strapped or wristwatch to our to 318 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: our arm cyborg dentures exactly, Yeah, how are you gonna chew? 319 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: You know, you throw the dentres in. You've augmented the 320 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: individual with technology to better enable them for their environment. 321 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: You've become something more than human. Right and and certainly 322 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: we went into a number of of these possibilities on 323 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: the previous uh UM Accessorizing podcast about you know, somebody 324 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: can wear flippers, They're gonna they're gonna swim faster. Um, 325 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: you know, we we wear about computers, are you know, 326 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: are our iPhones? It's like there's there's so much technology. Eyeglasses, contacts, um, lasers. 327 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: These are all examples of something where technology changes the 328 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: person to better suit them for their environment. You may 329 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: think of it as just your everyday life, but your 330 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: everyday life is here on earth. But what if the 331 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: everyday life was in space? So clients and client took 332 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: that and then they looked at all the problems facing 333 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: us and trying to exist in space or explore space. 334 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: And I thought that the solutions they came up with 335 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: were incredible. I mean, they're they're really creative, and they're 336 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: really interesting ways to to approach the problem. Yes, And 337 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: I have to tell you though, to like reading this, 338 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: I thought, God, this is this is so crazy, Like 339 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: this is the Madman era. Can you imagine them like 340 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: sitting in a cocktail party saying, well, I've got an 341 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: idea about this whole problem of the lungs in space? Yeah? Yeah, 342 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: or I mean it reminds me a little bit. In 343 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: Mary Roach's book, she talks about like when you would 344 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: have scientists, the scientists that designed space travel and the 345 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: jock afternaughts that would do it, like sitting in the 346 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: same room and the and she pointed out how that 347 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: the scientists would be like, you know, we could develop 348 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: a way for the for them to actually eat parts 349 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: of the ship on the return trip from Mars, and 350 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: maybe there's a way we can make it to where 351 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: they can eat eat pooh or something. You know. It's 352 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: like they're actually beginning to think along those lines. And 353 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: the astronauts were like, no, no no, no, no, we're not 354 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: doing that because it's something about like the scientific mindset 355 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: when you really get into it from a just a pure, 356 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: purely logical problem solving, uh you know, frame of mind. Right. 357 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: So so there's a hint of that, more than a 358 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: hint of that in this in their original article, because 359 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: it's some of the possibilities are a little uh uh, 360 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, they make you shake your head a little, 361 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: but but but they're but the logic of it is 362 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: is interesting and intensive. For instance, they pointed out that 363 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: we could have osmotic pressure pump capsules, um and sensing 364 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: and controlling mechanisms in our bodies, like implanted to give 365 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: us medications for blood pressure to give us basically speed 366 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: if we need to to stay awake um, which you know, 367 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: they have various medications on space UM any kind of 368 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: a space mission these days, but you generally have to 369 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: pop the pills yourself. But what if it was an 370 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: automatic thing. And that's one of the huge key um 371 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, aspects of of what was basically cyborg one 372 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: um as outlined in this proposal, and that was that 373 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: we were taking these different things and turning them over 374 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: to subconscious functions, so automating the right Yeah. So it 375 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: wouldn't be like like, oh, I'm getting a little sleepy 376 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: and I've got the high pressure job ahead of me. 377 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 1: I better you know, pop some of this uh this 378 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: NASA speed Uh No, you would just it would just 379 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: kick in ums all these sensors that are taking the 380 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: data and recalibrating your body based on that. Yeah. And 381 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: and other things too in this situation, would be like 382 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: any radiation medications, uh, pituitary drugs to help induce hibernation. 383 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: That was a big key too, because you get into 384 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: the issue of how are you going to worry about 385 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: sending people on long space voyages where you know they're 386 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: gonna be that they're going to be setting around doing 387 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: nothing for you know, years. What if you can we 388 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: could learn something from bears. Well, bears don't technically hibernate, 389 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, it's a different Well, I think that 390 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: they are interested in pairs. It's something that when they hibernate, 391 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: they're actually redistributing the calcium back to their bones or 392 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: something nuh like that, that which they thought. Well, if 393 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: we could just replicate that humans would be great. Yeah, yeah, 394 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: because bears are sitting around doing nothing for for the 395 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: period of their of their their winning nap time. But 396 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: they're not they're not losing a bone in their bone 397 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: density and their their muscles. They can still walk at 398 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: the end of it. The human lad in bed for 399 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: X number of months here, she would not necessarily be 400 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 1: able to move when I got it when they woke up. 401 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: And the crux of the problem too is that yeah, 402 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: you can you might have muscle atrophy atrophy, but you 403 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: can get your muscles back afterward, right, And you'll have 404 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: some bone loss, but you may not be able to 405 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: recoup actually all of the bone density that you lost 406 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: in particularly um the area and your hips. So if 407 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: you're an astronaut and you reach retirement age, then it's 408 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: not a great scenario for you, because that's like the 409 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: number one thing that happens to people in your older 410 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: years is that they fall and break their hips. So 411 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: it's actually like a real problem for Yeah, yeah, totally. 412 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: Here are a few other things from the Cyboard paper. 413 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: They suggested replacing them, along with an inverse fuel cell 414 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: um altering your intestinal plumbing so that don't love this 415 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: waste water goes through a filter and right back into 416 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: your blood, which which this is one of those where 417 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: you can just imagine it coming up in in the 418 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: Madman era where it's like, you know, we're wasting a 419 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: lot of water when we go to the bathroom. I 420 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: think we can we can probably pump that through a 421 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: filter right back into the bloodstream. Yes, yes, And to 422 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: your point to about redistributing the poop so to speak, Um, 423 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: there's a quote from the paper that says sterilization of 424 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: the gas show intestinal tract plus intravenous or direct intra 425 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: gastric feeding could reduce fecal elimination to a minimum, and 426 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: even this might be reutilized. So yes, to your point, 427 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: they're absolutely thinking about this eating your own Well, well 428 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: that's kind of the you're putting the dark spin on 429 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: it do it that we'll put the light spin on it, 430 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: minimizing and hate. You know, I'm a dreamer one day 431 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: eliminating pooping, just completely get rid of it. What a 432 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: world we would live in? Um So. I mean that 433 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: most assuredly be the death knell for the newspaper industry. Um. 434 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: The of course, the whole idea of like a recycling 435 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: like urine. Of course, we're already doing that in space. 436 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: We we have water filtration systems and uh and and 437 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: and of course everybody has the the idea of the 438 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: still suit from from the dune novels, you know, the 439 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: idea that you could pee in the suit and it 440 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: would turn back into water. So um So, some of 441 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: the ideas are like I would not be opposed to 442 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: wearing a still suit to you know, or or two 443 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: or someone said hey, this this water was p an 444 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: hour ago. I'd be like, well, you know, a lot 445 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: of water was p at some point, so it's good. 446 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: But the whole idea of like we're now gonna re 447 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: reroute your intestinal system so that the waste water goes 448 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: back into your bloodstream. That's a little more extreme, but 449 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: it's an interesting solution. Um let's see a few other 450 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: ones here enzyme tinkering to create uh anaerobic organisms in 451 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: other words, astronauts that don't require air or can live 452 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: in different atmospheres. So that's some extreme makeover right there. Yeah, 453 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: And for those types of solutions, I can't help but think, like, 454 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: how do you recircuit the autonomous part of your body, 455 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: like your lungs that want to breathe? Like and I do. 456 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: I think that all of their solutions are really fascinating, 457 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: but that's to me, those are the sticking points like that, well, 458 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: the humanness part of our body that wants to do this. 459 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: How do you shut that off? Um? They go back 460 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: to the inner ear thing and and getting a little 461 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: motion sick and weight business. They proposed either draining ear 462 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: fluid or filling them up. So there you go. Um 463 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: they said electric slash drug cardiovascular control. They recommended drugs 464 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: to preventing a muscle atrophy, which sounds perfectly reasonable except 465 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: in their in their argument, would probably just happen on 466 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: its own through something implanted in you, which I guess 467 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: you would have to get like a refill pack. You'd 468 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: be kind of like a printer. I'm thinking on your 469 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: back where you have like the cyan and the magenta 470 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: and all this. You suddenly you get like a little 471 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: light would show up and it's like, oh, I'm running 472 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: low on anti radiation medicine. Yeah, and I wonder if 473 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: there'd be one that would run out the fastest, you know, 474 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: because it seems like we're always having to replace cian. 475 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: I don't know it's true. Why is that? Yeah, it's 476 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: a weird color. But they also recommended lowering body pressure 477 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: to facilitate better facilitate space walks, perhaps naked space walks. 478 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm thinking like, like, basically they're saying we we would 479 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 1: we would just remove some of the necessary functions of 480 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: a space suit. So that's that's pretty wild. They also 481 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: talked about engineering humans to have a light sensitive, chemically 482 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: regulated system that would change their reflecticity. In other words, 483 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: you wear you know, you wear a black shirt on 484 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: a bright day, you end up being hotter and you 485 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: have a lot more of that heat you were a 486 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: white shirt reflects. So in space you're gonna have situations 487 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: where where you need to eat or don't need the heat, 488 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: because it can make a difference between cooking and freezing. 489 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: Is this the protective plastic sponge clothing they were talking about. Yes, yeah, 490 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: which sounded um, sounded like I don't know something in 491 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: my attic right. They also brought up anti basically anti 492 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: space madness medications, anti psychosis medications, because you're gonna be 493 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: up there for a while in this cramp space. You 494 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: don't want your fellow astronauts going crazy. Yeah. So yeah, actually, 495 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: and I noticed that that drugs were huge part of 496 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: the solution here for a lot of this stuff. Yeah, 497 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: which makes sense at the time, but I guess not 498 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: knowing as much about the side effects now. Well, well, 499 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: the thing is they keep a lot of these type 500 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: medications on the spaceship. I have a blog post on this, 501 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: which will also link to when I get around and 502 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: doing the the accompanting blog post for this. But but 503 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: there are a number of different medications that they keep 504 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: on on the shuttle. So it's not not just the 505 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: idea of using them, but having them where they kick 506 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: in automatically, where it's like you start feeling a little 507 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: crazy and then you're the system that's implanted in your 508 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: side like checks you, you know, so you only feel 509 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: crazy for a second. That now, oh it's interesting this, uh, 510 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, this features into n and Banks 511 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: culture series. We have the humans have been augmented over time, 512 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: so everybody has like all these systems that are either 513 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: subconsciously or consciously control so they can they can feel 514 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: less psychotic or or you know, crank up there. They're 515 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: sort of caffeine level without actually uh, you know, having 516 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: something to drink. She's actually made me think about this 517 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: book that I just read, Super Sad True Love Story. 518 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: I believe this is the title. And they talk about 519 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: everybody has something called an apparette, which is they wear 520 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: around their neck and it basically will tell you every 521 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: bit of data about yourself, will communicate it to another person, 522 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: so you could feasibly see what my cholesterol level is 523 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: and you know whether or not I need to adjust 524 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: that or if I even have like little nano robots 525 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: going through my blood like cleaning things up as well 526 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: as my credit score. It's good stuff, but just reminded 527 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: me of that. Um. They also talked about prolo using 528 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals too, to have to kick in some prolonged sleep 529 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: if you get injured. Like they're all deals. Like you're 530 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: on your return trip from Mars and you, I don't know, 531 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: you step into really badly, or more likely you're injured 532 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: on a space walk, etcetera. You might need to just 533 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: be able to put that person under for the ride home. 534 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,239 Speaker 1: It might maybe a condition that can't be or an 535 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: injury that can't be treated reasonably on the ship. That 536 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: was another hallmark. Yeah, putting people inder and um so yeah, 537 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: those are some of the key arguments that they made. Um. 538 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: From there, they went on to do a number of 539 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: other cyborg studies, where each one dealt with another level 540 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: like cyborg to dealt with the manipulation of human emotions 541 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: through mental exercises. Um. And and this this one involved 542 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: like a lot of hypnosis, like like the idea of 543 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: using using hypnosis to and uh and I could see 544 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: like like meditation being a big thing too. Yeah. They 545 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: mentioned in yoga too in the paper Yoga in space? 546 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: Can you do what here? You will have done more 547 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: yoga than me. Could you do yoga without gravity? I 548 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: assume you could do some of the postes, right, um, 549 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: I mean never having done it and then gravity free environment, 550 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure, but yeah, like I mean, I 551 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: don't know, it seems like the different balancing poses would 552 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: be kind of pointless and like down dog. I don't know. 553 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: I think the down dog even count if there's no gravity. No, 554 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't. I mean I think you'd have to have 555 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: your compression suit on, and perhaps you'd have to do 556 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: like partner yoga with one person holding you down. This 557 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: would be interesting if if anybody out there has any 558 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: thoughts and what a micro gravity yoga technique would consist of. 559 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: I have to ask my yoga teacher. Um, so there's 560 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: that level. Maybe I will No, I will do it, okay, 561 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: Um maybe alright. So then Cyberg through his genetic alterations 562 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: to enhance the human emotional range uh Cyberg four deeper 563 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: genetic changes, and then uh Cyborg five. Ultimately, they were 564 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: talking about the separation of mind from body, um, which 565 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, the ideas like, perhaps instead of sending humans 566 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: to this hostile environment, you can fall back on the 567 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: human creation that is best suited for space travel, the machine. 568 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: If we could just simply put our consciences in it, 569 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: or somehow experience what the machine is experiencing. Uh, you know, remotely, 570 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: we could have some sort of implant that tied into 571 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: the Yeah. Yeah, like it more or less an extension 572 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: of what we're already doing, right, we just more data. Yeah, 573 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: we talked a big game, you know about sending humans 574 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: to Mars, but ultimately we can send robots there and 575 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,239 Speaker 1: we can you know, move our hands on a on 576 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: a keyboard and move things on Mars. We can we 577 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: can look through a screen and see what's happening on Mars. 578 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: And as that technology improves, and I mean it's it's 579 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: basically like we're there and without having to worry about 580 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: how you're gonna feed this person, how are you gonna 581 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: keep them alive, how are you gonna you know, tackle 582 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: the the the huge obstacles of engineering a person that 583 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: can or buy this environment. That makes sense to me. 584 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: I mean, to to do the sort of surveillance that 585 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: you need, right to to have nano robots or robots 586 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: go out and accumulate all that data. The thing that 587 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: I think about is what what's missing there? Is um 588 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: like the overview effect, right that the reporting back of 589 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the the human part of it. Yeah. So yes, the 590 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: We've talked about this before in a podcast about overview 591 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: ef fact that since the beuphoria, you get in this 592 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: deeper better understanding of the planet that you live in. Yeah, 593 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: like the Grand Canyon example is great. Like, I've never 594 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: been to the Grand Canyon, but I've only seen photos 595 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: of it. It looks really cool in the photos, but 596 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: everyone will tell you that's been there, that the photos 597 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: just don't cut it. That you don't really like understand 598 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon until you see it, which which I 599 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: totally buy because I mean, that's that's how seeing anything, 600 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, amazing works. It's like the photo, the video. 601 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: You can really capture a moment or a string of moments, 602 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: but it's not the same as being there. Yeah. Yeah, 603 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: but then you know, I don't know, I think about that. 604 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: S robots makes so much more sense. But you know, 605 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: it seems like I've been bringing this up a lot. 606 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: But like the exo skeletons we talked about the military 607 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: is using, you know, is there a way to combine 608 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: that technology as well as the carbon nanotube muscles that 609 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: they're trying to create to glomb that onto the human too, 610 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: to again make them more of this um the cyborg 611 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: in reality as opposed to the future that we keep 612 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: pointing to. Yeah, so, one of the big questions that 613 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: comes to mind when we talk about all these different 614 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: variations on the cyborg is is that if we change 615 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: humans to live in space or live in another world, 616 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: at what point are they no longer human? You know, 617 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: like what you know, you get to where you're adding 618 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: a lot of hardware, you're genetically altering somebody and then 619 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: you're sending them out. And is that a human being anymore? 620 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: Is that something else? Is it a subspecies? I don't know. 621 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: Paul Davies of Study has actually said that biological intelligence 622 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: is only a transitory phenomenon of leading phase in the 623 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: evolution of the universe. And so his feeling is that 624 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: the supplies to humans and and if there are indeed 625 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: in uh, extraterrest extraterrestrial life out there, that it's uh, 626 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: it's got to be some sort of machine hybrid mhm. 627 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: So this is an idea that's come up before. Is 628 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: aliens Is these more evolved UM replications are iterations of 629 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: ourselves that are the sort of machine cyborg being. Yeah, 630 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: and uh, and it falls back in line with what 631 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, Like it comes to like 632 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: the like the like say Cyborg five was talking about 633 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: UM like basically machines with human intellects, you know, it 634 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: becomes more of a I mean again, just look at 635 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: what we've sent out, We've sent machines. Machines have been 636 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: the first to land on on, on Mars, on on 637 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: the moon first, I'm going to be the first to 638 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: leave the Solar system. So it says the definition then 639 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: if the brain is intact, then we're still human. But well, 640 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: I think we would kind of like that to be 641 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: the case. But again, we're not just our brains. It's 642 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: like we're you know, we're We're a much more complicated 643 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: system than that up the gut. So anyway, it's an 644 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: interesting question at what point, at what point do do 645 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: have At what point would we not be human anymore? 646 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: At what point are we already not human? Um? This 647 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: there's a n stat that and this ISNT seven which 648 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: which argued that that of the human population was already 649 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: a cyborg just counting like everything from you know, pacemakers 650 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: to prosthetics. Two Denture's that there was just a huge, 651 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: huge population segment of the population that was already not 652 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: fully human. And certainly, I mean if you start counting clothing, 653 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: like none of us are except for those those few 654 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: nudists out there, they're keeping it real for the for 655 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: the original humans. Hey guys, thanks for listening in. If 656 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: you'd like to check out more from us, think sure 657 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: to visit stuff to Blow Your Mind dot com. Hang 658 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: with us on Facebook, Tumbler, and Twitter, and send us 659 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: your episode suggestions that blow the mind at Discovery dot com. 660 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 661 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com.