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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear for the Man, the Myth,

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Speaker 1: the legend, our super producer, mister Max Williams. Max Williams.

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Speaker 1: And who is that cheering on our super producer? Why

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Speaker 1: it's none other than mister Noel Brown Nolan. How are

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Speaker 1: we feeling?

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Speaker 2: I'm all right?

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Speaker 1: How are you? I'm okay, man, I'm okay. Got a

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Speaker 1: lot of.

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Speaker 3: Run of dreary weather here in Atlanta, finally broke and

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Speaker 3: that bums me out. So I'm feeling pretty great today, really,

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Speaker 3: I you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm Ben Bullen by the I feel weird, Noel,

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Speaker 1: because I had just perfected the newest update on my

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Speaker 1: rainy day playlist, you know what I mean, And I

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Speaker 1: didn't do it in time for the weather.

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Speaker 2: What are we talking here? We're talking like chill hip hop,

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Speaker 2: beast to study.

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Speaker 1: Too or I loved love a godspeed?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Got it back into some Shirley Manson stuff. We'd love

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Speaker 1: to hear yours garbage? Uh huh, yes, yes, garbage. Pistoln

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Speaker 1: speaking of the opposite of garbage. We are thrilled you,

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Speaker 1: Max and myself by a new podcast that is right

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Speaker 1: up our alley. Hoax created by none other than the

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Speaker 1: legendary Lizzie Logan and Dana Schwartz and Noel. We have

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Speaker 1: a special surprise for our ridiculous historians.

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Speaker 2: Is it true? Are they here?

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Speaker 1: They're here, They're here this part Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: So happy to have y'all.

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Speaker 1: Let's get right into it. First, tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your background. I think you're going to be

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Speaker 1: both familiar to a lot of our listeners already. Could

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Speaker 1: you tell us how you guys teamed up and what

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Speaker 1: inspired you to create a show all about hoaxes.

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Speaker 4: Lizzie, I was pointing at you, Dana as this as

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Speaker 4: this podcast was your idea.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, I'm Dana Schwartz. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 5: history podcast Noble Blood, which is a scripted podcast where

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Speaker 5: we talk about the history of nobles, you know, and

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Speaker 5: they're interesting, usually bloody stories. But a fun fact about

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Speaker 5: me is I'm real life human friends with Lizzie Logan

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Speaker 5: and I had this idea. I've always been fascinated by

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Speaker 5: historical hoaxes. There have been a few Noble Blood episodes

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Speaker 5: that sort of touch on hoaxes, fake royals, you know,

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Speaker 5: Anastasia stories like that, And I'm captivated about the idea

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Speaker 5: of why people believe things that aren't true and the

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Speaker 5: people that purport that they are true. And so I

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Speaker 5: sent a text message to Lizzie Logan, my real life friend,

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Speaker 5: about this idea, and we noodled it together, and a

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Speaker 5: year and change later, here we are.

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Speaker 4: It's true, And I'm I'm a little bit more of

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Speaker 4: the modern day scam scandal fan. I love like I was.

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Speaker 4: I was on the fair noose beat, like from the beginning.

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Speaker 4: I was fascinated by that, Like fraudsters, annadel Vi, like

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Speaker 4: anything of that that's in the news, I am like

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Speaker 4: fascinated by. So it's been really fun to research these

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Speaker 4: with Dana and find out that people have been hucksters

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Speaker 4: throughout history. We think of this as sometimes a new

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Speaker 4: phenomenon of like, oh, people are falling for these scams

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Speaker 4: and these liars these days. Now nobody you can't trust

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Speaker 4: anybody anymore. It's like, oh, you could actually never trust anybody.

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Speaker 4: This has actually been going on since the dawn of lying.

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Speaker 3: Well, it couldn't come at a more appropriate time, because

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Speaker 3: it would seem that just about everything we hear about

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Speaker 3: as a hoax, if it is unflattering to certain folks

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Speaker 3: in government these days, yeah too about it.

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Speaker 2: It had to put it out.

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Speaker 5: Very cy call things hoaxes, and I think like, unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: at this moment, when AI and deep fakes are so pervasive,

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Speaker 5: the fundamental question of whether you should believe some information

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Speaker 5: that's put in front of you, I think is very critical.

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Speaker 5: And so by using these anecdotes, these fun stories, I mean,

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Speaker 5: our first episode is about two young girls in nineteen

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Speaker 5: seventeen saying that they took pictures of fairies. It seems silly,

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Speaker 5: but the bigger questions about that I think are unfortunately

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Speaker 5: relevant today. Just like scrolling through Facebook and you see

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Speaker 5: these like AI slop stories that get like thousands of

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Speaker 5: likes about someone like being like no one came to

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Speaker 5: my birthday party, and it's like a cartoon of one

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Speaker 5: hundred and twenty year old woman.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's like I saw one today where it was

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Speaker 3: Leonardo DiCaprio covers his face with a cap at Jeff

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Speaker 3: Bezos's wedding, and it's such an unremarkable and likely thing

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Speaker 3: to have happened that you look at and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: sure that happens. But then I look down on the comments,

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Speaker 3: It's like, this is totally AI. It was based on

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Speaker 3: a still image that was then AI afied to like animate.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we're also willing, maybe even want to

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Speaker 3: be the first one to share something that all of

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Speaker 3: this stuff just makes it even more difficult to sort

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Speaker 3: things out because it just capitalizes on that wanting to

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Speaker 3: be the first one to break the news on something

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Speaker 3: that impulse is already kind of depriving you of some

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Speaker 3: critical thinking at a very crucial moment when this kind

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Speaker 3: of information gets spread like wildfire.

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Speaker 1: We want to be Promethean right in the attention economy?

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Speaker 1: Where are my likes? Where am I rip boost?

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Speaker 4: This is?

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Speaker 1: This is something that we've explored often flzient data in

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Speaker 1: our or another show we do called stuff they Don't

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Speaker 1: Want you to Know. And I think one thing that

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Speaker 1: really interests Nol and myself and Max and all our

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Speaker 1: fellow audience members tonight is the idea that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, especially before AI Slop, a lot of us

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Speaker 1: assumed that it was just easier to pull off a

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Speaker 1: successful hoax in ages past right, just like you know,

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Speaker 1: every true crime show says, well, you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: easier to murder people back then. So do we think

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Speaker 1: that it was easier to pull off a successful hoax

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Speaker 1: in the past or has AI changed that conversation entirely.

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Speaker 3: And that lack of critical thinking and that kind of

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Speaker 3: like you know, knee jerk reaction.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna say yes and now, Yes, it was easier

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Speaker 5: to pull off a hoax because there were fewer mechanisms

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Speaker 5: of like immediate fact checking. Like if you say something

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Speaker 5: to someone, someone can't just like quick google it to

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Speaker 5: see if it's real. You know, if someone says they're Anastasia,

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Speaker 5: you can't do a genetic test immediately and prove that

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Speaker 5: that's not the case. The Princess Anastasia, you know, talking

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Speaker 5: about the Romano Princess.

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Speaker 2: From the animated film.

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Speaker 5: From the animated film, and as we know, it was

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Speaker 5: a happy ending and she lived happily ever after. Yes,

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Speaker 5: so in some ways it was easier to lie just

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Speaker 5: because there were fewer ways of fact checking immediately. But

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Speaker 5: I will say something that continues to come up over

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Speaker 5: the course of this podcast is people were not more

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Speaker 5: stupid in the past when we have hoaxes and we say,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, everyone believed this. That's not the case

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Speaker 5: with almost every hoax. There were people at the time

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Speaker 5: calling bullshit. In our first episode we talked about these

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Speaker 5: coddingly fairies, and it was notable because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,

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Speaker 5: who wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories, someone you would have

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Speaker 5: imagined to be a very intelligent man good at deductive reasoning,

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Speaker 5: was a big defender of these fairy photographs.

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Speaker 2: We have talked about this particular story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, on both ridiculous history and stuff that don't want

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Speaker 3: maybe just to remind us a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It was like the early, very very well done.

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Speaker 3: Photoshop job that like had people convinced that someone had

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Speaker 3: photographed like these magical creatures.

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Speaker 4: Which I just want to go on record and say,

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Speaker 4: if you haven't looked these episode.

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Speaker 2: Two, they're nuts.

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Speaker 4: Two points two points One, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle fell

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Speaker 4: for this, and he was a smart guy. Two most

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Speaker 4: people did not fall for this. Three The photos look

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Speaker 4: fake as hell, Like they do not look real like

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Speaker 4: this is this is the thing that.

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Speaker 6: People need to understand, Like they don't they just they.

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Speaker 7: Don't look real at all, Like the the The idea

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Speaker 7: that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle fell for this is so

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Speaker 7: funny to me because they just don't look real like

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Speaker 7: on any level.

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Speaker 5: He I mean, we get into it in the episode,

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Speaker 5: but he believed it because he wanted to believe it.

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Speaker 5: He was a spiritualist. This just reinforced his worldview. But

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Speaker 5: plenty of people at the time knew that these photos

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Speaker 5: were fake. Plenty of these people were making fun of

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Speaker 5: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle for falling for it. There's one

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Speaker 5: quote that I love where someone said, knowing children and

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Speaker 5: knowing that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle has legs, I believe

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Speaker 5: these girls pulled.

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Speaker 3: His Like, yeah, there's no dimension to them, there's no

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Speaker 3: light fall off, there's not completely flat. I think in

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Speaker 3: my mind I was remembering it looking a lot better,

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Speaker 3: and I'm looking at it now and you're dead on

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Speaker 3: it really.

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Speaker 4: Don't look like I've seen spooky photos where I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I understand how a person in the past, or even

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Speaker 4: a person today would have fallen for this if you

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Speaker 4: don't know enough exposure is yeah, this is not like

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Speaker 4: BuzzFeed creepy photos where you're like.

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Speaker 6: Oh my god, what is that. This is not that

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Speaker 6: this is a fake looking photo.

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Speaker 2: They do not exist in the same space clearly upon.

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Speaker 5: I mean really, what they did was they just one

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Speaker 5: of the girls just drew fairies and pinned them around

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Speaker 5: them with hatpins. So the photo itself wasn't manipulated, which

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Speaker 5: is why they were like, we took these photos to

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Speaker 5: the expert expert photography people and they prove that it

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Speaker 5: wasn't a double exposure. It's like, yeah, it wasn't because

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Speaker 5: these girls just had cardboard cutouts of fairies around them.

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Speaker 1: And they're nice drawings. To be fair, We don't want

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Speaker 1: you don't want to call that. Yeah, I do also

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Speaker 1: want to say, on a positive note, this would be

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Speaker 1: like a really nice hallmarky type card to send to

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Speaker 1: your family.

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Speaker 5: It's the girl was sixteen. This is like a really

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Speaker 5: creative art project that she was doing with.

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Speaker 2: Her cousin's fun.

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Speaker 1: And how did the how did the I don't want

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Speaker 1: to call them culprits. How did the uh let's use

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Speaker 1: that little culprits, those little scamps, little scamps? Okay, how

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Speaker 1: did how did the how did the scamps? Uh deal

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Speaker 1: with this?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: It became you know, a subject of conversation on the

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Speaker 1: level of a meme going viral. Right, So, without spoiling

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Speaker 1: too much of the episode, could you tell us how

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Speaker 1: those kids dealt with the the fame and the backlash

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Speaker 1: and the controversy.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the truth is, I think they were both

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Speaker 5: kind of mortified. They were humiliated at school. They were bullied.

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Speaker 5: Arthur Conandoyle originally used as a pseudonym when he publishes

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Speaker 5: the story about these photographs in the strand, but everyone

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Speaker 5: still knows it's them. The girls recount like photos of them, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: because it's photos of them. The girls, you know, both

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Speaker 5: recount being mocked at school. The older girl, Elsie, was

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Speaker 5: fired from her job because people kept calling and like

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Speaker 5: trying to the reporters kept calling and coming there. So

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Speaker 5: it was it was very challenging, and I mean, in

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Speaker 5: spoiler alert, no spoiler alert, it was a hoax. But

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Speaker 5: both girls agreed that they would not publicly admit that

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Speaker 5: the photos were faked until Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and

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Speaker 5: mister Gardner, who's another like a big proponent of the photographs,

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Speaker 5: we're both dead.

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Speaker 2: Oh jeez, Okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: I think the interesting part about this to me and

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Speaker 3: this maybe comes into play with a lot of hooks

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Speaker 3: is the power of belief and playing into people's superstitions

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Speaker 3: or playing into people's biases or whatever. That to me

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Speaker 3: is I think a huge part of successfully perpetrating a hoax.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, tell the people what they want, you know,

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Speaker 1: play on that confirmation bias, because who doesn't love feeling?

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Speaker 1: Beat me here, Max, who doesn't love feeling? Right? You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, I did make

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes and fairies are real, and here's the one

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Speaker 1: thing that supports it.

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Speaker 5: I think another big lesson to take away from the

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Speaker 5: hoax is, once you are convinced of something, you can

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Speaker 5: justify any possible hole anyone points in the argument. People

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Speaker 5: pointed out that these quota quote fairies, we're wearing very

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Speaker 5: modern clothing and had very modern hairdos, and he said, well,

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Speaker 5: they're there thought figures. Fairies are mythical creatures that are

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Speaker 5: sort of conjured from your imagination, so that of course

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Speaker 5: their their appearance changes over time or counter explanation. The

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Speaker 5: reason they look like regular like fairies in a story

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Speaker 5: book isn't that, you know, strange that they look like

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Speaker 5: just exactly how people imagine fairies. Look, well, maybe people

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Speaker 5: just got it right. Maybe our popular imagination of fairies

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Speaker 5: was based on their reality, and so he just came

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Speaker 5: up with these counter explanations for any possible hole someone

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Speaker 5: could point Poe.

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Speaker 3: Which argument so un Sherlock Holmes, The in of him,

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Speaker 3: isn't it? I mean, it's like it seems to go

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Speaker 3: counter to everything that he stands for in terms of

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Speaker 3: that kind of power of reason and deduction and you know,

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Speaker 3: not being swayed by bias and looking at only the facts.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting people have.

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Speaker 4: Come to a conclusion when you're arguing with them. The

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Speaker 4: argument no is no longer do fairies exist or not?

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Speaker 4: It is are you wrong or not? It is are

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Speaker 4: you a person who is able to be duped or not?

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Speaker 4: So like, if I've convinced, like if Dana is convinced

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Speaker 4: of something, then if I'm arguing with her, it's not

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Speaker 4: really about the thing we're arguing about. It's am I

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Speaker 4: able to convince Dana that she is a person who

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Speaker 4: is like stupid in some way or like gullible in

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Speaker 4: some way. It's hard for her to swallow that she

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Speaker 4: is a person who could be wrong.

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Speaker 5: Especially if people have been calling me a genius because

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Speaker 5: I wrote Sherlock Holmes books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, not very Hounds of Baskerville. I love you, bro.

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Speaker 1: But this, this leads us to I think this is

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Speaker 1: a tremendous point that echoes in the modern day, the

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Speaker 1: idea of tying one's identity to a conclusion right in

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Speaker 1: a society that very much does not reward people changing

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Speaker 1: their minds right are encountering new information. There's a big

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Speaker 1: sunk cost fallacy in that kind of thing. And if

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Speaker 1: we stick with the world of print for just a moment,

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Speaker 1: there's another story you all found and hipped us to

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Speaker 1: that I had personally never heard of before. The fake

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Speaker 1: first newspaper in England.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, this became my own sort of many personal

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Speaker 5: crusade because if you believe it, this is a hoax

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Speaker 5: that's still to this day around the world. Museums and

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Speaker 5: a website still write up as true. It is kind of,

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Speaker 5: when you think about it, the original fake news. It

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Speaker 5: is a newspaper called The English Mercury. It was donated

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Speaker 5: to the British Museum in sort of a cash of

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Speaker 5: papers in seventeen seventy six by this man named Thomas Birch.

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Speaker 5: And he donated all these papers that used to belong

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Speaker 5: to the second Earl of Hardwick. So these papers are

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Speaker 5: just in the museum for a good long time when

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Speaker 5: a researcher named George Chalmers finds them and is astonished

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Speaker 5: because in these papers is this newspaper from fifteen eighty

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Speaker 5: eight discussing Sir Francis Drake and the English defeating the

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Speaker 5: Spanish Armada, this massive event in English history. And what

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Speaker 5: would really be astonishing is that if this English mercury,

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Speaker 5: this discovery is now the oldest newspaper in the world,

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Speaker 5: The actual oldest newspaper in the world is a German

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Speaker 5: newspaper from fifteen ninety four written in Latin. So not

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Speaker 5: only is this discovery monumental because it's the oldest newspaper

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Speaker 5: in the world, it's about a marquee event. It's not

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Speaker 5: just like a regular, you know, Tuesday newspaper. It's like

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Speaker 5: about the Spanish Armada. And it's proving this to this

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Speaker 5: British person reading it, that Englishmen have invented the newspaper.

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Speaker 5: We thought it was German, but it was Us, and

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Speaker 5: so they're so excited, and for almost half a century

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Speaker 5: people just take that as fact, and it's not until

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Speaker 5: forty five years later that a researcher going through the

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Speaker 5: British Museum archives realizes that the manuscript is so obviously

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Speaker 5: a hoax, like based on the typeface, based on some spellings.

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Speaker 5: There's an original manuscript version of it that's in the

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Speaker 5: handwriting of the second Earl of Hardwick with some corrections

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Speaker 5: from that friend, Sir Thomas Birch. And what this researcher

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Speaker 5: figures out is that newspaper was basically just like a

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Speaker 5: creative writing exercise that the Earl did with his friend.

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Speaker 5: Like it feels almost like a fifth like an assignment

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Speaker 5: you would get in fifth grade, where it's like, imagine

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Speaker 5: that you are at a historical event and you are

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Speaker 5: a reporter, Like what would a reporter say about the

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Speaker 5: invasion of the Spanish Armada? Like the Earl and his

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Speaker 5: friend just did this as a writing exercise, like a

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Speaker 5: quote unquote literary game. And they weren't even trying to

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Speaker 5: hoax anyone, to be fair, they just donated it among

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Speaker 5: all their papers. And I find that very charming, and

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Speaker 5: still to this day you will see the English Mercury

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Speaker 5: referenced as as a real historical newspaper from fifteen eighty

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Speaker 5: eight when it is not.

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Speaker 4: I have a distinct memory of doing that in fifth

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Speaker 4: grade that we were doing a unit on Egypt and

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Speaker 4: there were two like it was like five A and

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Speaker 4: five B, like our two fifth grade classes, and we

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Speaker 4: each had to do like an ancient Egyptian newspaper. And

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Speaker 4: there was like kind of a rivalry between the two

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Speaker 4: classes of who could come up with a better name

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Speaker 4: for their newspaper, and we I forget which class was which,

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Speaker 4: but one was called the Giza Gazette and the other

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Speaker 4: was Pyramid Paparazzi. Oh, but it was like one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent if a thousand years from now.

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Speaker 6: Someone then found what we did.

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Speaker 4: And was like wow, like did you know ancient Egypt

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Speaker 4: had newspapers.

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Speaker 6: One was called the Giza Zet and the other was

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Speaker 6: called Pyramid Paparazzi.

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Speaker 4: And then they were like, oh, this is not written

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Speaker 4: in hieroglyphics, this is actually not from ancient Egypt.

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Speaker 5: Did you say in any of it with like tea

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Speaker 5: bags to me?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I also noticed, Lizzie, this is a bit apropos. You

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Speaker 1: have a poster of the pretenders?

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Speaker 4: Oh yes, why as band very hoxy rock band.

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Speaker 6: Pending.

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Speaker 1: Think about it, folks connect those dots. So it also

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Speaker 1: I think the idea of this fake first newspaper, you know,

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Speaker 1: we see here not malice, right, not necessarily a heist

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Speaker 1: nor adrift, but more this idea of something affirming a

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Speaker 1: concept of English nationalism and exceptional exceptionalism. So we also

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Speaker 1: see I don't know the idea that people want to

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Speaker 1: be read on to a mystery, right, people again, we

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Speaker 1: love the validation. We love not having to change our minds.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that takes us a little bit closer to the

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Speaker 1: one and only folks you know him, you know them.

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Speaker 1: We got to get a sound qu for him, PT book.

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Speaker 1: We'll do some dances here.

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Speaker 5: He is the greatest showman himself.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say, the greatest show what a musical?

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Speaker 1: So what makes what makes our what makes our buddy?

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Speaker 1: Ptb the notorious ptb uh considered the ultimate Hopes not

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Speaker 1: the best dude.

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Speaker 5: There was a certain shamelessness to him. I think that

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Speaker 5: a lot of the hoaxes that we like to cover

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Speaker 5: on the show have like a general sweetness, and even

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Speaker 5: that example of the English mercury Uh, it was like

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Speaker 5: a fun writing game between two Buddies, and they weren't

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Speaker 5: even trying to fool anyone. They were having fun, and

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Speaker 5: that was sort of also at the heart of the

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Speaker 5: Cuttingly Fairies was just these two young girls. What I

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Speaker 5: find so disquieting about P. T. Barnum is the shamelessness

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Speaker 5: with which he was alying to people for profit and

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Speaker 5: then also exploiting the people that he was using he had.

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Speaker 5: I think the biggest hoax that I think has the

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Speaker 5: biggest impact to this day that he perpetrated that I

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Speaker 5: don't think people realize necessarily was a hoax is the

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Speaker 5: idea of George Washington and the Cherry Tree story. He

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Speaker 5: helped popularize that because he in the eighteen hundreds had

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Speaker 5: a black woman that he traveled with who was very,

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Speaker 5: very old, who he had claim falsely to be the

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Speaker 5: one hundred and something year old woman who had helped

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Speaker 5: raise George Washington. Not true.

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Speaker 4: I would also say one of the greatest hoaxes of P. T.

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Speaker 4: Barnum's life is his own legacy, which is now being

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Speaker 4: burnished in the film The Greatest Showman, which.

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Speaker 2: Is really rosy out.

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Speaker 4: I also would just say, like our podcast is a

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Speaker 4: lot about like a suite or innocuous hoaxes, which it

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Speaker 4: has less to do with the nature of hoaxes and

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Speaker 4: has more to do with us wanting to have like

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Speaker 4: a positive, feel good podcast. Like that's less a statement

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Speaker 4: on the nature of hoaxes and more about like Dana

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Speaker 4: and I want to have a fun podcast where you like,

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Speaker 4: learn a little bit and also don't feel bummed out

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Speaker 4: at the end. So we have purposely chosen hoaxes where

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Speaker 4: fewer lives are ruined than in other hoaxes. But if

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Speaker 4: you research hoaxes on your own, you will find many

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Speaker 4: where people's lives are ruined and people are taking advantage

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Speaker 4: of It's just you won't find.

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Speaker 6: That on our podcast because our podcast is fun.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. My favorite, my favorite hoaxes are the ones we're

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Speaker 5: sent where you leave and you just say, well, Leveryn

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Speaker 5: had a good time. Wasn't that that was interesting?

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Speaker 4: That's interesting, that was crazy, had a fun ride.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, that's that's Uh. That's a great point about

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Speaker 1: the sort of logic and philosophy of our explorations here,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, you don't want everything to feel like an

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Speaker 1: endless death march. You know, you don't want every story

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Speaker 1: to end uh end up feeling like you just accidentally

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Speaker 1: watched Requiem for a reason.

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Speaker 5: No, you want to watch Requen for drink consensually. Ideally,

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Speaker 5: I will also say an only one. I think we've

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Speaker 5: sort of thought about the difference, sug. We've sort of

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Speaker 5: thought about the difference between a hoax and a scam

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Speaker 5: and something that is just nakedly a scam I think

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Speaker 5: is just for profit and just meant to exploit people,

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Speaker 5: where something about a hoax is more performative and also

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Speaker 5: has an element of whimsy to it. I know it's

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Speaker 5: when I see it thing the difference.

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Speaker 1: There we go. I like that because we've sometimes discussed

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Speaker 1: over the years on this show, we've discussed heist and

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Speaker 1: hoaxes that we really enjoyed, and I think we're on

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Speaker 1: the same pat here because sometimes our favorite ones are

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Speaker 1: going to end up being someone who just wanted a

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Speaker 1: little bit of wackiness in their lives, you know. Or

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Speaker 1: they said something wild to their buddies hanging out, whether

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Speaker 1: in correspondence or in person, and no one questioned them

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Speaker 1: on it, And it gets really weird when someone starts

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Speaker 1: kind of just like the Yankee and Arthur's Court right Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: Yeak and King Arthur's court when the character Merlin you

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Speaker 1: realize that he actually believes he has magic powers. I

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Speaker 1: think it's fascinating how that happens with some real life

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Speaker 1: historical figures where they, you know, they say they're long

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Speaker 1: lost prince or what have you to some group of people,

438
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: and then those people just believe them, and you know,

439
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: fast forward a few decades and this guy's like, yeah, maybe,

440
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I am.

441
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm glad that you brought up King Arthur

442
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 5: because I not to put on my noble blood hat.

443
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 5: King Arthur is kind of maybe the longest running hoax

444
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 5: in popular culture because King Arthur did not exist, Like

445
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 5: I'm so sorry to everyone, what I know, it feels

446
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 5: like telling kids Santa Claus didn't exist. He didn't, but

447
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 5: at different periods in history he was sort of used

448
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 5: as propaganda to bolster people's reputations or to serve a

449
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 5: political purpose. This king, Henry the Seventh, the dad of

450
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 5: Henry the Eighth of Wife Fame, had a pretty tenuous

451
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 5: claim to the throne. Tenuous at best, but he won

452
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 5: a battle and when he was trying to sort of

453
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 5: establish his lineage and sort of established to prove that

454
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 5: he was a worthy king. He said on his Welsh

455
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 5: side that his family went back to King Arthur, and

456
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 5: he named his firstborn son Arthur as a way to

457
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 5: sort of create that legacy and tie in people's minds.

458
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: Even though Arthur was not a real person, he just

459
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 5: served a valuable political purpose.

460
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: No was he was the popular King Arthur legend. Is

461
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: this made from whole cloth or is it an amalgamation

462
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: of other previous royals.

463
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 5: I think the idea of King Arthur is a literary invention,

464
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 5: but it is a literary invention that takes its earliest

465
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 5: tiniest seeds from medieval chronicles. There's this chronicle called the

466
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: Historia brittonam in eight hundred and twenty eight that mentions

467
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 5: Arthur not as a king, but as a military leader

468
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 5: who fought off the invading Saxons and beat hundreds of

469
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 5: Saxons in this one battle. But even in that chronicle, Arthur,

470
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 5: a not a king, doesn't have any of the Guenevere

471
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 5: Lancelot cord round tab table.

472
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 6: Maybe it's anyone ever sets it around table?

473
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: Was you know, table technology at that point.

474
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 5: They probably were making tables round, I'm hoping, so maybe

475
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 5: we're there but even in that chronicle from eight hundred

476
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 5: and twenty eight, by that point, that chronicle has a

477
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 5: lot of flavors of mythology, where it's like they mentioned

478
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 5: that this general Arthur, you know, killed nine hundred people

479
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 5: single handedly in a battle that he they mentioned that

480
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 5: his dog had like a paw print in stone that

481
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 5: stayed in stone, and anytime someone stole the stone, it

482
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 5: would always appear right back where you stole it. That's

483
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 5: not like one of the pieces of the Arthur myth

484
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 5: that that stood the test of time. And there was

485
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 5: another where it's like the grave of Arthur's son if

486
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 5: you measure it any every time you measure it, it's

487
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 5: a different length. So even back in eight hundred, the

488
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 5: closest we can come to Arthur or a quote unquote

489
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 5: real Arthur is a general who was only mentioned in

490
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 5: this chronicle, not really mentioned by other contemporary sources, not

491
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 5: mentioned by other chroniclers who mentioned this battle, So it's

492
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 5: a pretty hazy source. And even then he was a

493
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 5: mythological figure.

494
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: But then like it wouldn't have been til acted. The

495
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 3: fact they referred to them as Arthurian legend, right, like

496
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 3: that was sort of.

497
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, doesn't the myth of the Holy Grail come

498
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 4: from Arthurian legend?

499
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that comes the idea of like the Holy Grail,

500
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 5: And I mean, I think I'm not good on Christian mythology.

501
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 5: I think probably the idea of the Holy Grail maybe

502
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 5: existed before. But the quest for the Holy Grail and

503
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 5: the sword and the stone and these pieces of Arthuriana

504
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 5: that we associate with King Arthur come centuries and centuries

505
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 5: later in literature.

506
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: As they as they serve first propaganda, right, and then

507
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: they later serve literature because nostalgia is a hell of

508
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: a drug at some point, and maybe maybe this is

509
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: something that a lot of us would hear and think,

510
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: oh gosh, look at like we were saying earlier, look

511
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: at these suckers from the past. It's really more an

512
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: argument about access to information, as you were saying, And

513
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: we could argue that now the pendulum is starting to

514
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: swing the other waves.

515
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if anything, where maybe a little bit

516
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: dumber now than people were back then because of the

517
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: you know, reliance on that kind of technology and that

518
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: kind of information gathering and that kind of like you know,

519
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 3: instantaneous gratification. Not to mention what things like AI chat

520
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: GPT are doing to us even further down the rabbit

521
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: hole as far as that's concerned.

522
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, critical thinking found dad Niditch.

523
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right exactly. Can't wait for the AI pictures

524
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: of that one on Facebook. With this, we want to

525
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: we want to ask you all a couple of these

526
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: larger questions with with hoaxing, with sussing out the fact

527
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: from the fiction, right and the truth from the proof

528
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: from the propaganda. What would you all recommend people do

529
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: when they hear a story that sounds super weird, or

530
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: hear a story maybe they really want to be true,

531
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: et cetera. How do we, as casual encounters of information

532
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: start parsing through all this? Frankly, I'll say it bullshit

533
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: that we see on the internet.

534
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 8: Oh.

535
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 6: I always just say, like, keep an open mind.

536
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 4: I always come from a place of like, I don't know,

537
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: you know, like you don't need to know right away

538
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: if something's real or fake.

539
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 6: You can take a week, you can take a month,

540
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 6: you can take like.

541
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 4: I'm I'm luckily like I don't work at CNN, so

542
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 4: I don't need to be the one who decides if

543
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: something is real or fake right away. And I don't

544
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 4: need to report on it right away, so I can

545
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 4: take my time and look at different sources, and I

546
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 4: don't need to immediately have a verdict on whether something

547
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: is real or true. And I don't you know, we

548
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: were talking about like everybody wants to repost right away,

549
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: Like you don't need to repost right away, So you

550
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: don't need to know right away if it's.

551
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 6: Real or fake. You can wait for the dust to settle.

552
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 6: You can wait for.

553
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: NPR to weigh in, like there are people out there

554
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 4: who will do the fact checking, and you can wait

555
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 4: for them to do the fact checking, like you don't

556
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: need to immediately go into down the rabbit hole. I

557
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: see so many people who are immediately up in arms

558
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: about like.

559
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 6: You know, like I'm not to.

560
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 4: Take it to a super serious thing, but like there

561
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 4: will be like like the hours after like a mass

562
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: shooting or like a earthquaker, like some like big story,

563
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 4: Like that's when the least reliable information is and people

564
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 4: are already up in arms about like why aren't they

565
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: reporting about the this or the that or the whatever.

566
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yo, like give them a week to

567
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: get their story straight, Like give the journalists some time

568
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: to do their jobs, then come back to it in

569
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 4: a couple of days and then we'll see like where

570
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 4: you can donate or this, that and the other. Like

571
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 4: you can just give it some time and be patient

572
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 4: and the information I knock on wood still have some

573
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: trust that some last dregs of the free press exists

574
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: and the good information will make its way to you

575
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: through some of our institutions if you give it some time.

576
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 4: But like, you just can't make these snap judgments. I

577
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: think that's where a lot of people go wrong, is

578
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: that they want the information immediately and they're like, well

579
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: this TikToker said and they said that they were there.

580
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 6: So then that's true.

581
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 4: But then that proved not to be true, and that

582
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: means that you can't trust and it's like give.

583
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 6: It a day.

584
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: Republica by the way, Yeah, we were just talking about

585
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: that on stuff they don't want you to know.

586
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 2: Matt who you'll know.

587
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: Matt Frederick brought us a story about how many like

588
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: typos and fact checking errors or even popping up in

589
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: the ap now, and it seems like a lot of

590
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: that is sort of like the domino effect of that,

591
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: you know, first to market kind of attitude, so you

592
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: really do have to be careful. But we brought up

593
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: Republica and Axios and a few others, like we like

594
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: four oh four media, but in really do have to

595
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: be careful.

596
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: We'll swing, We'll swing correctly a couple of times. But

597
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: it's yeah, this is something that makes me wonder. You know,

598
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: have we are Have we arrived full circle at the

599
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: heyday of the town crier. That always seemed like a

600
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: cool job to me, especially you know, like now we

601
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: have not like town criers under royal license. We're patent

602
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: from the monarch. We have the town criers of TikTok.

603
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: But I do love the idea. This is just a

604
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: pitch if any of you invents time travel, what if

605
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: we go back in time and bill ourselves as independent

606
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: town criers broad like on a circuit. Just walk in,

607
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: do a vibe check, and start shouting what we think

608
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: is the news or just.

609
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 5: A counterpoint, something more controversial. Put the established town crier

610
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 5: out of business because ours is more salacious.

611
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll call it. Actually, I feel.

612
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 4: Like there are people you can find standing on the

613
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 4: street yelling their controversial opinions. I feel like you actually

614
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: can find people doing that. Maybe they're time travelers.

615
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 6: Maybe those people are doing Maybe.

616
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 5: I think all of Lizzie's advice is just like so

617
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 5: smart and dead on. And I would also add you

618
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 5: don't need to post it all unless you were an

619
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 5: elected official, I guess, or you just like screenshots and

620
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 5: the internet are forever and like, you don't need to

621
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 5: weigh in on everything. No one is waiting for your

622
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 5: take on every snow One's like, I can't believe I

623
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 5: can't wait to see what Greg says about this?

624
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 4: Right?

625
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: Where is joh rule Dane When I.

626
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 6: Talk about this all the time? Shutting up is always

627
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 6: an option.

628
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: Shutting up is always an option. And you know what,

629
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 5: if you find something really interesting and really cool that

630
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 5: you do want to share, I would even say the

631
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 5: best thing to do is way a beat, get coffee

632
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 5: with a friend, meet a friend in person, and say

633
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 5: it to their face, because then if they say that

634
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 5: sounds fake and that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,

635
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 5: you can be like, oh, maybe you're right, let me

636
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 5: just check on that. And also that you got to

637
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 5: get coffee in person.

638
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: With a friend.

639
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like this great advice. Yeah, this is fantastic

640
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: insight because it's there are some solid arguments that I

641
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: don't think are one hundred percent proven, but there are

642
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: solid arguments from a couple of different fields that maybe

643
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: it's a hardware problem for the human brain at this point,

644
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: like not having evolved to digest all of this information

645
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: at this unceasing pace. So it sounds like the idea

646
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: of not even totally going full off the grid or

647
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: lud eyed or whatever, but just giving your yourself a

648
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: second to take a beat with that. Again, fantastic insight.

649
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: As Noel's saying, do you all have eddy moments? Let's see,

650
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to put anybody in the spot here,

651
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: but do you all have any moments where you thought

652
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: hot Dog I was taking in? I totally believe this

653
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: is true. Okay, Yeah, we got a hard nod from

654
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: Lizzie on that one too.

655
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 5: I think everyone does.

656
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 6: I yeah, I mean, I've, I've.

657
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of an actual hoax example. The

658
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: only example that's coming to mind is an example of

659
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 4: just like bad reporting.

660
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 6: Okay, but.

661
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 4: Oh well, I remember, I know, I know a girl

662
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 4: who had a ticket to Firefest and then but she

663
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 4: didn't end up knowing. And this sounds like I'm lying

664
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 4: to make myself sound good, but I swear I'm not.

665
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 6: I remember a girl who had.

666
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 4: To take it to Firefest, and she was telling me

667
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: about all of the accommodations and then how much it costs,

668
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: and it didn't cost very much, and I remember being like,

669
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: you're gonna get sold into white slavery. Like yeah, I

670
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 4: remember being like not that I knew that it was

671
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 4: a scam, but I was like, this sounds like freaking

672
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 4: sus Like I was like, this is that sounds too

673
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 4: good to be true? And then she ended up like

674
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: she couldn't go, and she like sold her ticket and

675
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 4: then yeah, bullet dodged. And then when it happened the

676
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 4: like we went back into the office like after the weekend.

677
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 6: I was like, aren't you so glad you didn't go?

678
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 6: She was like, I'm so glad I didn't go. So

679
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 6: that's what.

680
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: Do you know anyone that bought a ticket to Firefest too?

681
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 4: No?

682
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 6: I don't think I do.

683
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: And maybe that's.

684
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: Worth talking about real quick, because when you have something

685
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 3: like Firefest, it's such a scam that's debunked. There's two

686
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: documentaries about it, and yet people still bought tickets to

687
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 3: the second one.

688
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: What where does that come from. Is it just pure ignorance?

689
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: Is bliss?

690
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 5: Is it just like I think it's I don't think

691
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 5: it's even ignorance. I think it's knowing the hoax and

692
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 5: thinking like, oh, this will be fun, I'll like make

693
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 5: content about it. I think those people know exactly what

694
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 5: they're getting into, and I think kind of their hope,

695
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 5: almost hoping it's going to be a disaster.

696
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 4: I also think this is an example of Like I

697
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: think this is a great.

698
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 6: Example of the amplification effect.

699
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's the real term, but like

700
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 4: I think Firefest two probably sold about five.

701
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 6: Tickets, five actual I don't think this is a real thing,

702
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 6: like like.

703
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: Not the second round of controversy when the trailer came out,

704
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: but the first round of controversy when Halle Bailey was

705
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 4: announced as the Little Mermaid, Like there were a few

706
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 4: racist comments and then everybody picked it up and it

707
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: became like a thing.

708
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 6: Like there's a lot of manufactured.

709
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 4: Controversies on the Internet where if you actually trace it back,

710
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: it's like three people are mad about.

711
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: This one of the worst, one of the worst developments

712
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 5: to the Internet, And just like this need for so

713
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 5: much content just to like be in the content now

714
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: is people report three tweets as a news story.

715
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: Yes, oh god, no, that's a good It doesn't get

716
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: talked about enough, honestly, I mean it's so true.

717
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: Ever one of my tweets. That's the part that's the

718
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: worst part of it.

719
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not that much different than like, you know,

720
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 3: if we see a bad review for the podcast or

721
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: somebody says something mean about me personally, then I just

722
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: assume that's what everybody thinks.

723
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: You know.

724
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: It's just so easy to like believe that one opinion

725
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: represents something so much larger, just because of how everything

726
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: kind of in a certain way is equal on the internet. Like,

727
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: if it's something that you see, then it's there and

728
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: it has the same weight as any other piece of

729
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: content that you might run across.

730
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're not.

731
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 4: Careful or like I remember, like during the Eras tour,

732
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 4: they were listing like resellers were listing floor seats for

733
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 4: like twenty thousand dollars or something, and there were all

734
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 4: of these sites being like, can you believe people are

735
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 4: paying twenty thousand dollars to see Taylor Swift?

736
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 7: I was like, no, the tickets are available that means.

737
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: They're not sell it, like exactly.

738
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 8: I was like, how do you know anyone has paid

739
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 8: that much? I was just like that you made that up.

740
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 8: That is a made up price. That's a made up price.

741
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 8: Someone made that up, and you have now made up

742
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 8: that there is a customer for it.

743
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 6: This is made up. You made that up for your article.

744
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 4: You made up this consumer to get mad at who

745
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 4: is paying a made up price.

746
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 6: This is a mini hoax. This is a many hoax

747
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 6: that this is happening.

748
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 4: This is a little, tiny, little hoax just so that

749
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 4: you can have something to write about.

750
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 6: Not like I don't know that anyone actually about tickets

751
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 6: to that.

752
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 5: It almost is a thing where you see something like

753
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 5: on a web page that's like so imminently clickable, where

754
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 5: you're just like, well, I have to see that. It's

755
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 5: the classic rule of thumb that if a headline is

756
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 5: a question, the answer is no.

757
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: No, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.

758
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 4: This is is gen Z killing the stock market?

759
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 1: No, no, right exactly, And that happens often with celebrity news.

760
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: Another one that I think works very well in political

761
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: reporting is when you see words like ASTs or slabs

762
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: or you know, basically capals old Batman style. That usually

763
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: means that someone had a quote that was taken out

764
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: of context where they were like, yeah, I guess hypothetically,

765
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: if this person you're talking about is microwaving camels, I

766
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: think it would be a bad thing, And they're like,

767
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: how dare you, senator? But this maybe speaks to again

768
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: that that requirement of a cadence right, of a publishing

769
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: cadence right, we have to have the news, and if

770
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: the news does not exist, we have to therefore make

771
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: the news.

772
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 5: I have I have experienced the moment of being taken

773
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: out of context in a way that made me seem

774
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 5: incredibly lame. Where I was quoted in an article for

775
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 5: an outlet I will not name. I had made a

776
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: TikTok about breastfeeding my son and how much time it

777
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 5: takes and like people don't realize that, like feeding your

778
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 5: children with your body takes up so much on and

779
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 5: was giving an interview about it, and I said something

780
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 5: to the effect of like, when I'm doing it, I

781
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 5: spend a lot of time on my phone, which is

782
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 5: great for my brain. And I was so obviously in

783
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 5: my mind being sarcastic, and they wrote it up as

784
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 5: if she was like, well, lucky for her, like she

785
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 5: is spending a lot of time on her phone, which

786
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 5: Schwartz claims is great for her brain. And I was like,

787
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 5: oh no, and it was just so miscommunicated that then

788
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 5: seeing it in print, just felt this is like such

789
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 5: a tiny example, but it's so easy for something just

790
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 5: to like it wasn't malicious. It was just sort of

791
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 5: like you flippant and it just happened lay a little lazy,

792
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 5: a little just a misunderstanding. It just is a minor

793
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 5: example of just how easy it is for things to

794
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 5: be misconstrued.

795
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: Especially true when we're encountering something written in print about

796
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: something that was conveyed through audio or video, right, because

797
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: we don't really gosh, you know what, No, we should

798
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: do a history of strange punctually marks, because we don't

799
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: really use like the Entero bang or you know, some

800
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: kind of mark that says.

801
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: Clearly and I would die on that. A period and

802
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: a text is aggressive and I will die on it.

803
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: He'll disagree in lack of a period also seems pretty cold.

804
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 3: Where do you all fall on that issue? Period at

805
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: the end of a text aggressive?

806
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 5: It depends if it's one, if it's one word. It

807
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 5: depends on what the text is. If it says, if

808
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 5: it's fine, period aggressive, not fine, it'd full sentence.

809
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 3: I agree with that because then you have some nuanced

810
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 3: wild actually communicate a vibe.

811
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: But if it's a word and a period, not a fan.

812
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 4: I also subscribe to the belief that a text is

813
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 4: not writing it is written speech.

814
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that. But also we could argue there

815
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: are a lot of people in the audience tonight who

816
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: would say fine without a period is likewise not the

817
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: coolest thing.

818
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: Fine isn't general. Fine Also don't like.

819
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 6: Sounds good?

820
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: Good seems dismissing.

821
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: I do a dash. I like to do a dash.

822
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: If it's not a sentence, Yeah, I'll just do a dash.

823
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: I'll be like, that sounds great.

824
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 5: If someone ever texts it is what it is period?

825
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 5: That person.

826
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Was that was that Will Pearson, I'll find it.

827
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, in context of period can absolutely be devastating.

828
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: All this to say, bring back the Interra Bank in

829
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 3: Terra Bang, I'm telling you it's going to be a winner.

830
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: We're going to do an episode.

831
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: Described as this character, this forgotten character.

832
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: So have you ever seen a question mark and an

833
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: exclamation mark and thought they should hook up.

834
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 7: Uh.

835
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 1: It's basically that uh. But there there are so many more,

836
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: not just punctuation marks, but there are so many more

837
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: Hoaxes that are out there in the past and the

838
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: present and probably the future. Not my best segue, but

839
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: here we're going. We can't thank you all enough for

840
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 1: making this show. And as you can tell, we're big

841
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: fans of your previous writing, your unrelated shows. Right Noble Blood,

842
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: Reductress Reductress mc sweeney's, by the way, one of my

843
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: dream hangout spots where can people learn more about Eule's work,

844
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: not just on Hoax, but on your various other endeavors.

845
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: I feel like the easiest place to find both of

846
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 4: us is Instagram, because, as as Dana mentioned, we're both

847
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 4: staring at our phones way too much, so we're probably

848
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 4: just going to be throwing up links on there. I'm

849
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 4: Lizzie Logan with five z's, so just l i zz

850
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 4: zz ze l O g A N.

851
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 5: I'm Dana Schwartz, also with a lot of ease, but

852
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 5: my z's are at the end schwartz zz. Listen to

853
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 5: Noble Blood and listen to Hoax, and if you like it,

854
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 5: Please leave a rating, review, subscribe. It's a new podcast,

855
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 5: getting getting new listeners, listening, spreading the word. It means

856
00:45:58,320 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 5: a lot.

857
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: And if you like our show, you are gonna love this.

858
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: When folks, we are not blowing smoke. This is this

859
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: us saying hoax is amazing? Is itself not a hoax?

860
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: So we want to be clear. And someone had to

861
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: say something like that towards the end of the show. Hell,

862
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: you love it too, Kui, Thank you so much, Lizzie,

863
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Data. We are no we have

864
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: other people to think. We'll do it real quick. Super

865
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, Alex Williams who composed our track.

866
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 3: Chris Prociotis and Jeff Goates here and Spirit, Jonathan Strickland, Bequister,

867
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: aj Bahamas, Jacobs The.

868
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: Bustler and of course Noel. Thanks to you. Tune in

869
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: in the next few days, folks. As the Cinnamte said,

870
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: we have such wonders to show you.

871
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks.

872
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

873
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.