1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: At the beginning, Urban specialists really about gang intervention to 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: get young men to think about things a different. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: Way, using people with lived experience, using the using ogsg 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: We just training OG's to say, look, you got influence. 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: If you get yourself together, you can change a generation 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: of young people. You follow you. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: You guys even negotiated a truce between the blood and crips. 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, we did. We had over two hundred and 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: seven young people who signed a gang peace treaty, who 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: would add war with each other. 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: inner city of Memphis. And that last part it somehow 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: led to an oscar for the film about our team. 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: That movie is called Undefeated. Y'all. I believe our country's 17 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: people and nice suits talking big words that nobody uses 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: normal folks US just you and me deciding hey maybe 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: I can help. That's what and tong Lucky the voice 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: you just heard has done. Before he was fifteen years old, 23 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Atong founded the Dallas Blood Gang and ran the city's 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: roughest streets. This inevitably landed a talk in prison where 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: a man told him if he could lead for evil, 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: imagine what he could do for good. I cannot wait 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: for you to meet him right after these brief messages 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: from our general sponsors. 29 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: And Toon Lucky, what's up, man, I'm feeling good to 30 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: be in Memphis. 31 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, first of all, and toon Lucky, Lucky 32 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: is your last name, not a nickname that's something you 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: made up. Matters for real? What a name? I mean, 34 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: who and Tong is interesting, but Lucky is like, that's yeah, 35 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: pretty cool man. 36 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: I love it man, because ever since a kid, you 37 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: know that name always. Yet, are you feeling lucky today? 38 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess I am. Yeah, I feel lucky every 39 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: day because I am. 40 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's my name. 41 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: That's awesome from Dallas. First of all, thanks for coming 42 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: to Memphis and joining us, And understand you spend a 43 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: little time today looking around the city, and. 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: I was in search of barbecue. I was trying to 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: find a bit what you find, man? We found pain. 46 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: Barbecue paints barbecues. A real deal. 47 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: Man, I told them ribs. 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: Did you all right? 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: Uh? 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: You got you got? You got to get Alex. You 51 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: hear me on this. You've got to have cozy corners, barbecue, 52 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: bloney sandwich. You will, you will make you want to 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: slap somebody. 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: That's good. 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you. 56 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 2: I got to get that before I go. 57 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: And then next time you're back, you got to go 58 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: to the spaghetti shop and get the I mean the 59 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: barbecue shop and get the barbecue spaghetti. 60 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: Barbecue spaghetti. 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: That's right. 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got. 63 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: It's the real deal. So good. You ever had a. 64 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: Cash I gotta have barbecues. Forget the barbecues. 65 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: Have you have you had coachy corners barbecue bloney? You ain't? Yeah, 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: it is the real deal. I'm so anyway, you got 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: some pains. That's good because see down in Dallas where 68 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: you're from, y'all call that barbecue. But what you got 69 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: to understand is, man, you grill be a few barbecue pork. 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: Whatever y'all doing down there is And you know what, 71 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going in second place. 72 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna even I'm not gonna even take up 73 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: with Dallas because I brought some people from Louis down 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: in Okay, so they and they did me band I said, 75 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: I'm not getting that conversation of both. So I'm in search, 76 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 2: I mean memph searching for the best barbecue. 77 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: So president of Urban Specialists, which we will get to, 78 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: but we got a lot of work to get there, 79 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: to understand how you ended up there and why you're 80 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: doing what you're doing now, because your story is, like 81 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: many of our guests, phenomenal and actually when I when 82 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: I studied up on you a little bit, You're you 83 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: remind me a lot coming up of a couple of 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: other guests we've had similar type background stories, but yours 85 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: has an interesting twist to it, and that you always 86 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: seem to have this innate inside of you, depth inside 87 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: of you, love and care for your your family, and 88 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: candidly you wanted to be good at school, which is 89 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: a little interesting twist which we're going to get to. 90 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: So first of all, Fraser Court, Yes, tell me about 91 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: what Fraser Court is, man. 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 2: Fraser Court is is a little community inside of Dallas 93 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: where I was born. Uh and at the time I 94 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 2: was born at Fraser Court was one of the roughest 95 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: places to be born into right. It was it was 96 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: kind of this little piece of Dallas that nobody went 97 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: to nobody, you know, you you couldn't go over there 98 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: unless you knew somebody. It was that right. We was 99 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: the neighborhood in Dallas that that radio disc jockeys and 100 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: the rest of the city didn't mention. They didn't mention 101 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: at all. But I grew up there. My father was 102 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 2: a project, this project housing project. My father was sentenced 103 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 2: to fifty five years in prison when I was nine 104 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: months and what do you do? 105 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: What he do? 106 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: He was accused of aggravated robbery, right fifty five years 107 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 2: for robbery fifty five and nineteen seventy seventy seven. He 108 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: altimately did thirty seven years. But growing up there, growing 109 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: up in the projects, my mother went to work, dropped 110 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: out of school, went to work at sixteen, and never 111 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: looked back. I mean, when that situation happened, she went 112 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: straight to work and she never looked back. And she 113 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: closed that chapter of her life with my father. The 114 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: interesting part of that was that when she closed that 115 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: part of her life, nobody, not even her, ever sat 116 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: down and began to explain to me who he was, 117 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: what he was about It was like that after was closed, 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: everybody moved on. 119 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: So when you were nine months old. 120 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: I was nine months growing up just nine months from 121 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: from my nine months to my kindergarten years up into 122 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: middle school, I mean I never had a conversation with 123 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: anybody about my father. And I remember as a kid, 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: I wanted to know who my father was, but I 125 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: felt too dumb to ask the question, right because I 126 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: would go to PTA, I would go to schools and 127 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: I would see other kids with the with their fathers. 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: Oh they knew their father, that they if the father 129 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: went in the home. But I could never answer the 130 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: question of who my father was, and no one never 131 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: told me. And so what I did and I never 132 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: asked because because as a kid, I felt I felt 133 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: like I said, I felt dumb. I felt like if 134 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: I had to ask you who my father, Who's That's 135 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: something you supposed to know as a kid. But I 136 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: didn't know that. And so for me, right mother, working, 137 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: hard worker, I placed all of my taple in school. 138 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: So school became my refuge. That was a place where 139 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: you know, I could thrive and I could flourish. I 140 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: was a kid that brought the teacher to Apple I 141 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: was a good kid. Who I remember them discussing with 142 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: my mother, like, we got to move him up two grades, right, 143 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: And my mother said no, I'm like, he's too smart, 144 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: you know, talented and gifts to a rose student and 145 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: this is elementary school, right. And so as my mother worked, 146 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: my grandparents were like my primary caretakers. They were the 147 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: ones who looked at for me. They was the one 148 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: who gave me the confidence. They the ones that affirmed me. 149 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: Because when I was young, I was real skin I 150 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 2: want this big. I was skinned. I had a big head. 151 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: I had a real big, little kid big. And my 152 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: cousins and my cousins, man, they teached me a lot. 153 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 3: They called me blimpy. What's it like, Empy? What's it 154 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 3: like to grow up as a fourth, fifth, and sixth 155 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 3: grader in the hood. We're supposed to be hard and tough, 156 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: and you were skinner, a big headed, smart kid. 157 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you it was tough. It was tough 158 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: because and I think what you just asked represent a 159 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: lot of kids around the country even today. I think 160 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: those kind of kids, kids like who I were, live 161 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 2: this duality, right, this dualism, because on one end, you're 162 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 2: trying to be a good kid, because that's just who 163 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: you are, trying to be an a R student, smart kid, 164 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. But then on the other side, 165 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: you have to be what the neighborhood say you have 166 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 2: to be. And that's that whole survival, that's that whole 167 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: tough that's an environment. And that's something most people don't understand, 168 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: especially people who are who are busy educating and doing 169 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: all that stuff. They not looking deep into that, looking 170 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: granular enough to understand a kid who live in a duality, right, 171 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: who's trying to be good when in the school, and 172 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: then when he in the neighborhood, he has to do 173 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: what the neighborhood says you have to do, because you 174 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: learn quickly in the hood that smart kids, talented kids, 175 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: if they get bullied quick. Right, you learned that quick. 176 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: You learned that early on, Like early on, you learned that, 177 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: you learned like being so. I remember I used to 178 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 2: hide how smart I was. I used to have I 179 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: used to almost be ashamed of it. 180 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: Right. 181 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: I didn't like when my family would talk about it, 182 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: especially when we was all together. I didn't want them 183 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: to I didn't want them to I remember feeling it, 184 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: like feeling like I don't say that, no, and you know, 185 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: and I tried to hide it as much as I 186 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: could until I couldn't hide it no more, right, and 187 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: I had to make some choices. 188 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: This is a this is early in our conversation to 189 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: go where we're going to go. Let's go, but I 190 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: want to go. I want to know what's the difference 191 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: in you and me? And here's why I say that. Okay, 192 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't nine months. I was four, but my dad 193 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: was gone at four nothing. Mom had to work hard, 194 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: and my grandmother and grandfather both SuDS really my paternal 195 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: and paternal grandmother and grandfather either my dad wouldn't the 196 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: picture of My dad's parents were good people, so they 197 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: were heavy in my life through elementary and into middle school. 198 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: And Mom did what she could, but she had to 199 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: put food on the table, cook and everything else. Now 200 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, she wasn't sixteen, she was twenty three, but 201 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: still young. I was the same age. I had very 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: much of the same things you're talking about in my life. 203 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: My dad wasn't there. I didn't understand. It was embarrassing. 204 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: I didn't like when other guys came around and I 205 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: wanted to do good in school and everything else, but 206 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: I didn't go down the path that you ultimately went down, 207 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: which spoiler alert, which we're going to get to all 208 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: of it, but gangs and stuff, really handidly, what do 209 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: you think is the difference in you and me? We 210 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: had the same, We really did have the same. We're 211 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: probably some of the same dynamics through fifth or sixth grade. Right. 212 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: Uh. Before I answered, I asked you one question. 213 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: You don't ask me anything you want to, because I'm 214 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 3: gonna ask you your neighborhood. 215 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: What kind of neighborhood was it that you grew up in? 216 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: Wasn't the projects, but it was an apartment. It was 217 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: drug dealers, lower middle but not the projects. 218 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: Shootings every day? 219 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: What's that? 220 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: Shootings every day? What every day shootings? 221 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: Shoots? 222 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: Were they shooting your gun shots every day? Did you 223 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: see drug dealers hanging out every day? Gang members? Never? Okay? 224 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: I think that's the difference. I mean, I think when 225 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: we look at when we look at the that's the difference. 226 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 2: I think people tend to underestimate the neighborhood environmental influence 227 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: on young people. 228 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: R Shae Cooper was a guest we had some months 229 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: bot Uh Chicago guy right the hood. He said to 230 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: me that I don't know how you expect a kid 231 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: to learn when before he even gets to school he's 232 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: passed three drug deals, her ten gunshots and literally stepping 233 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: over pools of blood. And he said, in their apartment, 234 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: the air conditioner didn't work real well, and they had 235 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: a plugin fan right, and one of the blades was 236 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: a little bit out of balance, so as that fan spun, 237 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: every time it'd spin, it click. Some fans kind of 238 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: click click click, And if you walked into his apartment 239 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: never lived there, that click would drive you crazy. But 240 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: if you live there, you just you just heard. You 241 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: didn't even hear the click anymore. And he said the 242 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: reality of my childhood of gang violence and drugs and 243 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: gunshots and blood and everything was like the click of 244 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: that fan. People from outside area would be appalled by it, 245 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: but it was just the way we lived and it 246 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: just came commonplace. But once you go through all that, 247 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: once you get at the school, you don't care what 248 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: Tom the Mayflower came here or what half a fifty percent. 249 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: Is right, And just think about the kid who experienced 250 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: all of that but was trying to care when he 251 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 2: got to school that experienced everything he just described, but 252 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: was trying to care when he got to school, right. 253 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: And then and then you have a segment of people 254 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: who say, well, you know, cause I got friends who 255 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: didn't make some choices. They grew up in the neighborhood. 256 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: I grew up in too. But when you look at it, 257 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: some people say, man, how did you let that influence 258 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: you to go down that road? And if I had 259 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: the same situation, I don't believe that, you know, the 260 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: neighborhood can convince you to be a gang member or 261 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: even consider right. And I said, I it's simple right 262 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: if I come out of my house, and it's just 263 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: as plains I can get when I am I growing up. 264 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: If I come out of my house and I look 265 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: down the street, I got on a red sweater and 266 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: I see fifteen to twenty dudes stumping a dude in 267 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: the red sweater, and they all got on blue sweaters. 268 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: Intuitive there, I know to go back in the house 269 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: and put on a blue sweater. Now, I mean a game. 270 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: They got to be real bright to know that. 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: You know that you're in the gang, but you know 272 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: you see that you're gonna say, oh, I gotta change this. 273 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: And I got friends who I got friends as we 274 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: got into the gang stuff and all that who who 275 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: wasn't as had the pretends to that we had. But 276 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: because of sure association, filiation, sure geographic, just born in 277 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: that area, Now you in a gang because you're gonna 278 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: suffer the same consequences. And those are some of the 279 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: stuff that I think, I think helped shape some of 280 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: the decisions that I that I don't care for today, 281 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: but those were the decisions that I made. 282 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors. But first, 283 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army 284 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive 285 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: a weekly email with short episodes summaries in case you 286 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading 287 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: about our incredible guests, we'll be right back. Sixth grade, skinny, 288 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: big hegged. 289 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: Thing, glimpy, trying to hide it kind of how's it 290 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: evolved from there? For you started out and I got 291 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: to say this man, shout out to my mother because 292 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: she my mother to this day, had never committed a crime, 293 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: never been in jail. Uh in her life, and and 294 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: I learned from her work ethics. She all did. All 295 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: she did was work. Then she wanted the best, et cetera, 296 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: et cetera for me, and and I and I and 297 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: I wanted to please her, and I wanted to please 298 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: my grandparents. But it just wasn't no match for what 299 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: I dealt with. As your other guests said, when you 300 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: step outside the household, just want a match for that. 301 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: Even at school, I often talk about how school we 302 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 2: were being busted into another neighborhood, probably a BYuT, a 303 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,239 Speaker 2: mile or two down the street, different neighborhood, kind of 304 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 2: just like here in Memphis. But if you don't know 305 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: those boundaries, you'll understand those boundaries. Being caught in those 306 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: neighborhoods can be serious for you. Right, So my safety 307 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: depends on how if I caught that bus, because sometime 308 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: that bus will leave at a certain time, don't care 309 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: where you're at, and then you're stuck in the neighborhood 310 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 2: that's not favorable to you. So then my safety is 311 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: how fast I can run, how hard I can fight. 312 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 2: Some days I fought, had to stay back and fight 313 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: dudes for no reason, and some days I ran, you know, fast, 314 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: as fast as I could. But that was the everyday situation. 315 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 2: You know, think of a kid's who's struggling to do right, 316 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: who want to do right, who's trying to do right, 317 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: who's questioning his identity question Whereas for all this good 318 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: stuff and maintain A and B on the road grades. 319 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: But coming back to this, coming back to a neighborhood 320 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: like this, that stuff we're now they wear you now. 321 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: You know, as much as I wanted to do right 322 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: and keep doing right, it got to wearing me down. 323 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: And I can remember vividly like where stuff started to 324 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: slip from me, like when stuff started to when was 325 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: I probably around about eleven twelve, maybe even thirteen. By 326 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: eleven twelve thirteen, in that age, stuff just started. 327 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: And you're supposed to be playing youth baseball and going 328 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: to the cub Scouts and stuff like that at twelve thirteen. 329 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: You ain't supposed to be thinking about banging. 330 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: Man at twelve and thirteen by that time, you know, 331 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: like from nine to ten, around ten, that's when it started. 332 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: Around sixth grade, fifth or sixth grade, that's when it started. 333 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: By the time I got into seventh grade, we were 334 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 2: selling drugs big time, and I had them amputated my 335 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: personality and became what the neighborhood said. 336 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: But one thing, I say that again, you amputated your personality. 337 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I amputated who I was to become what the 338 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: neighborhood said that I needed to become. And I started 339 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: I put that character on. I became that character. I 340 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: started being what the neighborhood said. Because this is what 341 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: I learned, though. I learned that I was a lot 342 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: smarter than a lot of my peers because remember I 343 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: was going to school, you know, in those formative gears, 344 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 2: and because what I went through, I think it made 345 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: me very very observant to life, probably more than more 346 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: so than some of my other friends. But when I 347 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 2: when I when I put this put this outfit on, 348 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: I realized that I was kind of smarter than a 349 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 2: lot of my peers because I thought a lot because 350 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: me and my father, I think primarily my father being 351 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: out of my life made me think a lot. Made 352 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 2: me think about life a lot because I was a 353 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: kid having some real serious questions that I want an answer. 354 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: That made me pay attention and question a lot of stuff. 355 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: And I don't know if that made my brain just 356 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 2: far off But when I put this outfit on, I realized, 357 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: I said, man, I can run some stuff because I 358 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: was using this. I understood early on that strong rule week, 359 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 2: but the wirest rule of moth. I understood that as 360 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: a kid as ten left thirteen years old a byt thirteen, 361 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to junior high school in limousines making three 362 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: four five thousand dollars a day selling procaine. That's a 363 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: Dallas thing. That's going to the area liquor. Stop buying 364 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: some superior beef supplement and cooking it up with eather 365 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 2: base and making it feel like it's crack cocaine, and 366 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: you can spend bout forty dollars and you can make 367 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: up about ten fifteen thousand dollars easy. 368 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: You're really doing that. 369 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: No, we was really doing this. In my book, you know, 370 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: we were doing that. 371 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: So I read that about this time is when the 372 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: movie Colors came out. 373 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 2: Others came out Colors, Yeah. 374 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: Colors, I remember the song, right, yeah. 375 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they came out. It came out of the movie theaters. 376 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: And again for my neighborhood, we didn't have no gang affiliations, 377 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: but these other neighborhoods they had already the crips that 378 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: already migrated from California, and these other neighborhood had gang affiliations. 379 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: What was your neighborhood, our neighborhood that was just phrase 380 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: of course, Yeah, we were just phrase of course. That's 381 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: the neighborhood that set back there. 382 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: You know, they there was hustling going on, there were 383 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: drug dealing, but it wasn't We went. 384 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: The organized and we didn't have no name for it. 385 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: We didn't have no name for a neighborhood. Well he 386 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: probably wasn't never have a name for a neighborhood. But 387 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 2: because we kept fighting these other kids and then they 388 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: were crips. They were blue bandanas and rags. But we 389 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: went into that and to colors came out. When colors 390 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: came out, we was like, oh so so the enemy 391 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 2: to the crips is the bloods. Oh we the bloods. 392 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 2: Just like that, nobody came from California. We just said 393 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: we four one five bloods, and we're gonna be the 394 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: most deadliest ruthless gag in the city. Now, you gotta 395 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: imagine this little neighborhood was probably out numbered one hundred 396 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 2: and fifty to one. But we had heart and we 397 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: said we was gonna terrorize the city, and we did it. 398 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: I mean, we did it, and I'm not saying that 399 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: to glamorize. I'm just giving perspective to because it'll yeah yeah, 400 00:22:53,560 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: right right, And so we did that and boom. It 401 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: just we didn't even prepare for it. It just read 402 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 2: it like wildfire. Like I never forget. 403 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 3: Man. 404 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: I had went to a funeral one of the first 405 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 2: friends I went to casualty of gang banging. It were 406 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: two friends out of Old Cliff with another neighborhood who 407 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 2: looked up to us, and they both got killed at 408 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 2: the same time. They both were like really fronts lined 409 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 2: soldiers for the gags and stuff they had to be. 410 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: I was just looking at their debituary not too long ago. 411 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 2: I was like about fourteen. They was like fifteen and sixteen, 412 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: fifteen and sixteen, yeah, fifteen and sixteen, and they both 413 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 2: got killed, right, And I remember going to their funeral, right, 414 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: I was like, cause we had Red Dickies and Chuck 415 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: Taylor's and you know, I still had my Grandmama and me, 416 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 2: you know, to be respectful church, all that good stuff. 417 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: This stuff was still worn in my spirit. And I 418 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: remember walking into the funeral home. It was like in 419 00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three with a red shirt, some dickies, red 420 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: Chuck Taylor's red bandana. Really feeling like I'm disrespecting this family. 421 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: You know, my grandmother and grandfather's voices in my head. 422 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: And I remember opening the door on the chapel of 423 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: the church and everybody in there, everybody in there, everybody 424 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: in there except the mother because of the double funeral, 425 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: had them the same thing we had, like Red Chuck 426 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 2: Taylor's red bandanas, even they was in a casket with it. 427 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 2: And then and then and then when we went to 428 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: the cemetery, all of these bloods that we never knew. 429 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: It was no bloods in Dallas before us, before we 430 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 2: said we're gonna be bloods. And so we standing at 431 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: this we at the cemetery and you have forty fifty 432 00:24:52,840 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: hundreds of bloods messkan white, black, Puerto Rican coming from 433 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: four as they came we never seen, and they were 434 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: paying hummage to That's when I knew it was serious, 435 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: because they were paying hummage to us at you know, 436 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 2: calling us the OG's and saying what we finna do? 437 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: All right, there's as I sit and listen to you. 438 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: There's almost a sense of nostalgic reverence when I hear 439 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: that story, which is revolting. It's almost like the way 440 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: we idolize the mafia, the Italian mafia in the sixties 441 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: and seventies, like that's so cool, look at all that. 442 00:25:52,320 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: But they were racketeers and murders and pimps and everything else. Yeah, 443 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: and as horrible as it sounds, I think I can 444 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: almost understand how that may seem cool to a fifteen 445 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: year old kid. Oh yeah, which in and of itself 446 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: is really dangerous. 447 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, flue grit. 448 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. These grandmamas and mamas that are 449 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: working hard and the ain't been in jail and do 450 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: love and are in church and everything else. They are 451 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: so are not stupid. They see this generation of kids 452 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: getting in this. Why did it stopped? Why isn't somebody 453 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: putting their foot in the sand and saying, we ain't 454 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: letting our boys do this. It's tough. I mean, explain 455 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: that to me, because I know it happens, but I 456 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: don't understand it. 457 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: We're talking about this current generation. 458 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Then back then we'll talk about this courage. We'll get 459 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: to what you do now. 460 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: Back then I think it was different in the sense 461 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: that and I think you had a slew of grandmothers 462 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: and mothers who my mother was one who really carried 463 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 2: like who really, you know, I hid a lot of 464 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: stuff from my mother. You know, I hit a lot 465 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: of stuff from a lot of stuff. When I used 466 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: to hustle at the car wash, she would ride the 467 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 2: city bus. I knew at times she got off the 468 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 2: city bus and when that time approached. Now mind you, 469 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm at the car wash hustling, selling drugs, carrying guns. 470 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 2: But when my mother comes down, when that city bus 471 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: come down the street, I'm hiding to it to it 472 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: passed by. Hey, I'm hiding. And that was like that. 473 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: That was true for a lot of my friends, Like 474 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: our mothers didn't play, but we hid a lot. You know, 475 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 2: you didn't have social media, so they didn't see a lot. 476 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 2: You know, it would have to be a neighbor. Hey, 477 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: you had to have a neighbor to say. I got 478 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: many whoopings off my neighbors saying our neighbors saying, hey, 479 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 2: I saw him. Look, I had a cart and at 480 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 2: we're not about my first car. I had a called 481 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen to fifteen. I had a call a thirteen. 482 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: I paid twenty five hundred cash. I for I clean 483 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: Cadillact Coop the Belle with truth and vols, systement and everything. Right, 484 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: look at thirteen. I used to park the car down 485 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 2: the street because I couldn't drive it to the house. 486 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 2: I'm talking about a clean cop. 487 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean was she She don't want to know 488 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: where you got that car? 489 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: I never drove it to the house. 490 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: All the money? Would you hide that? 491 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 2: I hear everything? 492 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: Look so you got you got big money in your pocket. 493 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: Meanwhile your mama working for twelve dollars an. 494 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 2: Hours exactly exactly. 495 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: Look you realize how messed up that is? 496 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: Mess up? Look, I used to hide the car. I 497 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: used to park the car down the street until one 498 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: day my neighb was one of our neighbors told my 499 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: mother that I was driving the car, and she confronted 500 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: me about it. Right, that's how she knew I had 501 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 2: a car. I can't so the cat out the bag 502 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 2: now and she is pissed. My mama is pilled. I 503 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: don't have drive li some she is pissed. Right, So 504 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: one day I come in the house. It's in my 505 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: book to I talk about this part of my book. 506 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: I came in half of my Mama, you're right making 507 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: minimum wage blah blah blah. Struggling means you're working. I 508 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: closed on lit I closed was on lailway. We had 509 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: to put a lailwey get the ninety days all that. 510 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: But look, I came in the house one day, man 511 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: I had I had a woe a roll of money, 512 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: one hundred dollars bills, and I really felt like, man, 513 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm man, you know, take care. 514 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: Of my mom. 515 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna get this money. I know she's gonna be good. 516 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: And man, I put up with myne under cabinet and 517 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: she was in the kitchen, and when she turned around 518 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: and she seen that money, oh all hell broke loose. 519 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: She cursed me out, told me to get she didn't 520 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: take the money, told me to get out of her house, 521 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: don't ever bring. 522 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: Let's be let's put in perspective. She lost her husband 523 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:50,959 Speaker 1: armed robbery. 524 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you and that look, you can imagine how 525 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: that pierced my look perception of what I thought I 526 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: was gonna do like I would. I thought I was 527 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: doing like I'm finally the man, I'm finna give you. 528 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: I'm fine I'm giving you a thousand dollars and one 529 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: hundred dollars bill that at thirteen, fourteen years old, I'm 530 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 2: thinking you're gonna be happy. Like my mama did not 531 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: play that. She she cursed me so bad, all right, 532 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: and didn't take the money. 533 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: So drugs typically, I mean gangs, typically the drugs. 534 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: M started that. That's the that's the natural progression of games. 535 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: It's getting the drug because you got to be able 536 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: to you know, sustain and all that good stuff. So 537 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: I started doing started selling drugs. Did that to the 538 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 2: point that I had fast in my neighborhood in nineteen 539 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: ninety five, and I was fortunate. I was me and 540 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: one other person out of forty eight people fifty forty 541 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 2: eight people in my neighborhood, all my friends, they all 542 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: went fed except me and another friend. I missed the indictment. 543 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: I can't know why I missed indictment, but I missed 544 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: the indictment and all my friends got locked up. They 545 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: did like fifteen twenty years. But when they got locked up, 546 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: after I realized that I wasn't on the list, I 547 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: didn't have a secret indictment, it left me. It left 548 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: the streets dried, up, and it left me out there 549 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: to make money, and so I started. You know, next thing, 550 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: you know, I'm making thirty five five seven thousand dollars. 551 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: Next day, I'm throwing three keys, and I got trap had, 552 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: I got people working for me, et cetera, et cetera. 553 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: And now I'm in a position where I'm not selling 554 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: no drugs. I'm not on the block no more. All 555 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 2: I do is just score it and then give it out. 556 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: So you are now the leader of the Bloods, right right, 557 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: So you're not just a gang member, you're running it. Well. 558 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't ever talk about this, so I'm 559 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: talking about this normally in the interviews. I don't ever 560 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 2: go deep into that because I don't try to glamorize that, 561 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: like you were saying earlier, I don't like to talk 562 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 2: about it because I don't glamorize it. But it is. 563 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: It did happen, right, and so it put me in 564 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: that position where I kind of elevated, had houses. The 565 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: gang stuff was still happening, but it was kind of 566 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: phasing out because of the drugs and all that good stuff. 567 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: And then one day, one day, I remember getting a 568 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 2: call from one of the guys that worked for me, 569 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 2: and he said he was out, and I had a 570 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 2: system like where if somebody as you got somebody who 571 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: picked it up out the whole. Now you had the system. 572 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: And so he called me and said you not answer, 573 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: I need I need something else. I'm out. I said, well, 574 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: I come by there and can pick up the money 575 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 2: and then we'll figure out where he at. When I 576 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: came by the house and where I had to set up, 577 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: I had a house on this side of street, a 578 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 2: house on that side of the street. On this side 579 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: of street where you do business on this side of 580 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 2: the street. You never go on this side of the street. 581 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: And I'm never never bring nothing, no drugs on this side. 582 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: Of the street. 583 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: Just right here. I came to the house, picked up 584 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: the money. When I didn't even pick up the money. 585 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 2: I an't get a chance to pick up the money. 586 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: As soon as I pulled up at the house, because 587 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: I was on my way to home depot, because I 588 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: was renovating another house and I was eighteen and getting 589 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: ready to go to home depot. Soon as I pull up, 590 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: get out the car walk to the backyard, I see 591 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: a van pull up, jumping out and I said, oh, 592 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 2: they coming, and so I walked back to the front 593 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: of the house. By that time another van coming down 594 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: the street. I lay down mine. You ain't picked up 595 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: the money, and then they had us on the ground, 596 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: and then some narcotic officers that knew me personally from 597 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: on the streets but never had the opportunity to get me. 598 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 2: I remember saying, calling the officer name out from his mask, right, 599 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 2: And then they went they were searching everybody. I ain't 600 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: have nothing on I just pulled up no money. So 601 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: the guy who was working for me, they rolled him over. 602 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: He had some drugs on him, right, and he had 603 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: the money on that he never gave me, right, like 604 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: four or five maybe seven down dollars, So they got 605 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 2: the drugs from here. Immediately said that's mine because they 606 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 2: were his. He said that's mine because you member me 607 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 2: called me that. He said, that's mine. So they put 608 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 2: him to the side. Then three or four arcotics officers 609 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 2: go into a huddle. One I know, and they said, 610 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 2: I said, lucky through it, and I heard him and 611 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: I said what They said, look it through it, and 612 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 2: then the others said, yeah, yeah, look it. Though they 613 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 2: went and devised this plan to say I and the 614 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 2: guy was like, no, that's mine straight up, yes, right. 615 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: And I tell that story because that kind of spoiked 616 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 2: my whole criminal justice reform type of bone that I 617 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: got in my body because up until that point, and 618 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 2: as bad as I was in my limited understanding, I 619 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: never felt at that point that public servants, police officers, 620 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 2: civil servants would lie. I had this, I had this idea, 621 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: like a police officer, he can't be lying, he ain't 622 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: gonna never lie. They ain't gonna never do that. They 623 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: were very righteous, you know. I had that. It pierced 624 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 2: my whole idea that because I witnessed them go into 625 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 2: a huddle and because they knew that this the only 626 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 2: chain opportunity we got to get him, We got to 627 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 2: put these drugs on him. And so they went into 628 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 2: a huddle and they said those were my drugs. They 629 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 2: saw me throw them, blah blah blah, and they took 630 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 2: me to they took me to jail her. And that 631 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: began this consciousness that ultimately led me to right here 632 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: that we'll talk about a little bit. But it was 633 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 2: that saying that officer, those officers willing to go to 634 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 2: court and put their hand on the Bible and say 635 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: that they saw me throw those drugs, and those are 636 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: my drugs. That created some in me because I never 637 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 2: thought they would do that. I never thought an officer 638 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: would do that. I thought officers was you know, you 639 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 2: don't break the law to enforce the law, then you 640 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: just like me. So, but that was that was my naivety. 641 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: I thought that was you know, that was my naivety. 642 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 2: And that so on May seventh, my daughter was born, 643 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 2: and then May twenty first I got sense to privilem first. 644 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really do appreciate you going into depth on it. 645 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: The vast majority of our listeners I've never gained bang 646 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,479 Speaker 1: dealt drugs are been arrested on the front porch, and 647 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: so perspective matters. It also matters to explain what you 648 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: do now, which listeners we'll get to first, you got 649 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: to understand how and why. Yeah, and that concludes Part 650 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: one of my conversation with Anton Lucky and guys, you 651 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: don't want to miss Part two that's now available to 652 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: listen to as his redemption story. It's coming together. We 653 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: can change his country, but it starts with you. I'll 654 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: see in part two