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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows for you with

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Speaker 2: all new commentary, updates and insights, and you're welcome to listen.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode seventy three, which we named Chill Satanist.

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Speaker 2: Be sure it came out on June fifteenth, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's listen to the intro of episode seventy three.

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Speaker 3: Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murderer.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen Kilgarat and that's Georgia heartstart and we are here.

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Speaker 3: And we are phony.

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Speaker 1: This is how we do the podcast from now on.

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Speaker 1: I hope you like it.

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Speaker 2: We were told by podcast consultants that we should act

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Speaker 2: like this at the beginning of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you're new to this podcast, you can off curse anymore.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's right. You can f write a the A.

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Speaker 1: You can go to h E double hockey sticks.

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Speaker 2: And also email us, because that's you're supposed to get that.

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Speaker 3: This social media aspect going right. We're at Twitter, and

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Speaker 3: we're at and we're at we're both on bumble even

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Speaker 3: though George is married.

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Speaker 1: What's another one that's good?

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Speaker 2: I actually wait, you might have to cut this out, Stephen,

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Speaker 2: because I'll say her name.

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Speaker 3: To you, but I don't know it.

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Speaker 2: No, it's Lizzie and I were talking about bumble. We

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Speaker 2: were just talking about dating in general, what a nightmare

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Speaker 2: it is in LA and all that stuff. And in

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Speaker 2: the conversation of her trying to get me to join

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Speaker 2: a dating app.

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Speaker 3: I convinced her to rejoin Tinder. What it was the

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Speaker 3: hilarious turn.

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Speaker 2: It was like she was trying to convince me, and

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Speaker 2: as she was convincing me, I'm like, well, then why

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Speaker 2: don't you do it?

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Speaker 3: And then she's like, I don't know. I just I

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Speaker 3: don't know. You know what, You're right, I should sign up? Good?

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Speaker 3: It was hilarious. You're good.

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Speaker 1: You're just like, I'm gonna turn this motherfucker. Are you

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Speaker 1: going to sign up for any of them? No, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna meet someone at a fucking gas station pumping gas.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be like, yes.

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Speaker 3: Why I keep hanging out at gas station?

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Speaker 1: You gotta get a nice car.

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Speaker 2: The problem is that I my arms are always crossed

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Speaker 2: when I'm getting gas, So I put out negative.

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Speaker 1: You're you're more interesting. You don't want superficial shit.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Also, I just don't. I don't.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't know how to pick people based on their

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Speaker 2: picture because I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I'm good at I'm I'll take friends uh phones and

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Speaker 1: be like yes, yes, or like read their thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, because it doesn't matter to me. There's no

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Speaker 1: fucking stakes in my game. I don't get a ship.

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Speaker 2: I was actually doing it for Lizzie for a little while,

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Speaker 2: but it's that thing where then you start seeing what

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Speaker 2: other people's tastes are, which is really funny, where I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I would have said yes to that.

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Speaker 3: Lizzie's like, oh.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah. This is a murder podcast by the guys.

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Speaker 3: This is called Karen's Diary. That's how we start.

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Speaker 1: This is called.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: This is called did you hear this interesting true crime

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Speaker 2: based piece of news which lots of people tweeted to

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Speaker 2: me on Twitter. There's a woman named Agnes Gund who

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Speaker 2: is basically a crazy rich philanthropist. She sold a Liechtenstein

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Speaker 2: worth one hundred and sixty five million dollars Jesus and

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Speaker 2: donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically

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Speaker 2: with the eye to reduce mass incarceration.

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Speaker 3: In this country. Oh my god, and a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Sent it to us on Twitter saying there are some

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Speaker 2: good millionaires out there, and also like some finally some

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Speaker 2: positive news that's great, which I thought was very cool.

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Speaker 1: I just found a friend of mine, a friend like

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Speaker 1: someone she knows is going a dad. He's like sober,

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Speaker 1: but years in year, years ago, he well, he's going

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Speaker 1: to prison for eight years for having some pot on

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Speaker 1: him now in Florida, though, Oh yeah shit, which is

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Speaker 1: just like so heartbreaking. His whole family is not going

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Speaker 1: to have his income, His kids are going to grow

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Speaker 1: up without him. Whatever he could do to be a

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Speaker 1: productive member of society as fucked. Like, it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any fucking sense to me.

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy. That's some old leftover. Those laws are

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Speaker 2: now seeming like blue laws. They're just so old and

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Speaker 2: like blue law. Blue laws are like those laws that

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Speaker 2: were in I don't know if they were specifically New England,

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Speaker 2: but it was like it's like you can't you can't

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Speaker 2: drink on a Sunday Passcounty, right, all that old shit.

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Speaker 2: That's like they're just still on the books because no one.

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Speaker 3: Took them off.

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Speaker 1: You can't spit because of the nineteen nineteen Spanish flu

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Speaker 1: but would walk in it and track it into their

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Speaker 1: house exactly right, But I mean it should still be illegal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that would be nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, okay, so okay, we were going to talk

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Speaker 1: about Mommy dudn dearest finally because we've been promising it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wait, do you have any other short pieces of business

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Speaker 2: before we get into that.

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Speaker 1: Discussion business business?

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Speaker 2: Oh, the video of CAYLEB Brown when she was discovered

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Speaker 2: on Todd Kleop's.

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Speaker 3: You know farm or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Remember when a couple of months ago there was that

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Speaker 1: they found this woman chained up in a storage container, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they showed that. Someone was like they have video of

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Speaker 1: them opening it getting to her, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't watch this because I pictured her like screamed

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Speaker 1: like I pictured the end of Texast Chansaw massacre. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or she's screaming insane yep. And it was nothing like that,

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Speaker 1: and it was almost worse.

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Speaker 3: I went to watch it.

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Speaker 2: I was I was going to watch it with the

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Speaker 2: sound off because I knew that part would be bad.

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Speaker 2: And the first shot is she's fully dressed, She's got

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Speaker 2: a chain around her neck, right, Yeah, there's a collar

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Speaker 2: around her.

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Speaker 1: Deck and then a change, She's laying on a mattress,

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Speaker 1: shitty mattress, but it.

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Speaker 2: Looked so weird. She looked like she was kind of frozen,

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Speaker 2: like she was so scared.

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Speaker 1: And how long she'd been in there? Four months? Uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure Anne had seen before she went and

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend shot shot and kitscha death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and had probably been attacked repeatedly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And the second it started, I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm not watching this. I just what for.

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Speaker 2: Like, I'm glad she's rescued, that's great. I want her

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Speaker 2: to get better. I want her to be strong, all

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Speaker 2: positive vibes. I don't need to watch that moment of horror.

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Speaker 1: I felt bad, but I but I did watch. I

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Speaker 1: felt bad watching it, but I watched it. I think

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Speaker 1: what was so interesting to me is how calm she was.

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Speaker 1: And it kind of hit home of that thing of

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Speaker 1: everyone always saying you don't know what you're going to

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Speaker 1: be like, and uh, what is it?

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Speaker 3: A situation?

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Speaker 1: A crisis? So they're like whenever someone gets killed, and

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Speaker 1: they like, he acted like so calm, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: you don't ever know what it's going to be like

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Speaker 1: for someone, And this was like the perfect or like

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Speaker 1: a traumatic event. This is a perfect example of that

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Speaker 1: to me. And she was like immediately like, I've been

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Speaker 1: locked up in here by Todd Colehepp for this many months.

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Speaker 1: He shot and killed my boyfriend. Like she was just like,

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Speaker 1: here's the information in case I can't give it to

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Speaker 1: you later. Yes, it was, Yeah, it was amazing.

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Speaker 2: I also think I read in an article that the

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Speaker 2: cops said to her, uh like something like where's your

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Speaker 2: buddy or do you know where your buddy is? Which

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Speaker 2: is her boyfriend I was murdered, which I just hated that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why and maybe the phrasing sounded differently,

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Speaker 2: and I don't I'm just judging the written word, but

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Speaker 2: I just hated that.

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Speaker 3: It's like, she's not a child, it's not her buddy, it's.

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Speaker 1: Not a buddy system yeah over here.

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Speaker 2: But it's probably just him trying to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm your friend, disconcing, Okay, yeah, like low key, I

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Speaker 2: like to be judging.

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Speaker 1: Oh, let's see, before we into that, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: I wanted to plug the animating podcasts Twitter, which I

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Speaker 1: think is a new Twitter because it's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of followers yet. Yes, that they I just they go

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Speaker 1: to animating podcasts on Twitter. There's one of our podcasts,

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Speaker 1: short little clip that just brought me so much joy

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Speaker 1: and happiness. It's so hilarious, so hilarious. It's amazingly done.

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Speaker 2: First, especially as fast as we talk and as like

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Speaker 2: talking over like kind of overlapped.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, where that could not have been easy even.

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Speaker 1: Like they had my I went, mmmm, yes, I just

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Speaker 1: made a noise and it was this perfect It's just

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Speaker 1: this hilarious cartoon. Steven's in it, nar walls are in it.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler alert. It's just like they took a clip from

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Speaker 1: our podcast of us speaking and made it animated.

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Speaker 3: It was very exciting.

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Speaker 2: It's it was a real honor, but it was also

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Speaker 2: just like kind of cool, so talented, and also I

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Speaker 2: liked that they it started meet talking to you and

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Speaker 2: pointing at you, which is so mean, like they know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and it looked just like us it

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Speaker 2: did and Steven, oh my god, when it panned over

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Speaker 2: to Steven, like I laughed out loud that for it.

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Speaker 2: It was such a great job. So great job the

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Speaker 2: animating podcast. They do it for other podcasts. Go on

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Speaker 2: to their feed. Fucking best it's very cool, and thank

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Speaker 2: you guys for picking us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Steven had a kitten named after him.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations.

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Speaker 1: I think I cried a little bit.

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Speaker 4: They found him in the backyard, right, I couldn't think

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Speaker 4: of a higher yeah, they Yeah, I couldn't think of

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Speaker 4: like a I don't know, like huge compliment. Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: mean it's just I don't know. Yeah, it just means

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Speaker 4: a lot. It's really cool.

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Speaker 3: So the kitten's name is Stephen Ray Morris.

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Speaker 1: Kitten's name is kitten Kitty Raymore. But they're calling it Morris,

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Speaker 1: which I just think is so perfect.

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Speaker 3: It's very cute, Kitty Raymore.

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Speaker 4: It's just so cute. It's a little tiny and.

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Speaker 3: It's a little baby color.

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Speaker 4: It's like Tappy, not you Elvis. It's like a tappy,

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Speaker 4: like a striped like brown and gray. Oh, it looks

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Speaker 4: like my cat growing up.

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Speaker 3: So that's awesome. Congratulations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, congratulations. That means we don't have to pay you

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Speaker 1: this month, right, yep, because the cat. That's right, right,

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Speaker 1: You've got cat payments.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, going towards the cat.

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Speaker 1: It's going towards the cat. My MoMA, okay, mo me

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Speaker 1: dead and man.

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Speaker 2: People have been asking and asking for us to please

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Speaker 2: talk about it.

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Speaker 3: And today on.

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Speaker 2: On my uh car ride over, somebody I checked my

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Speaker 2: Twitter and somebody was like, are you guys ever going

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Speaker 2: to talk about it? And in all caps, oh no,

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Speaker 2: they said, have you guys? So I bet they were

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Speaker 2: asking a very polite way of like, did I miss it?

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Speaker 2: Have you guys talked about this yet? And just in

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Speaker 2: all caps, I wrote, not yet, Let's.

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Speaker 1: Never talk about it, Let's bring it up every time,

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Speaker 1: Let's move on right now and just never, We'll bring

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Speaker 1: it up every episode.

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Speaker 3: So rude, it's time. It's finally time, It's here. It

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Speaker 3: is mommy dead and dearras.

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Speaker 1: It was good.

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Speaker 3: I moved on. I finally, I finally watched it.

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Speaker 2: I was the I was the one hanging us up

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Speaker 2: because I didn't watch it for so long and I

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Speaker 2: us watched it like three hours ago. Really yeah, nice,

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Speaker 2: I caught up. It's I loved it.

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Speaker 3: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing And it's funny because I thought after watching,

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Speaker 2: since I watched The Keepers first, I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's like a Netflix series. It's this you know, eight

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Speaker 2: part thing and whatever. I thought it was really well done.

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Speaker 2: And also I am now so fascinated with gypsy. I do,

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Speaker 2: It's like I don't. When they were talking about the

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Speaker 2: fact that she was raised by this con woman manipulator

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Speaker 2: and so that's all she knows.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine?

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Speaker 2: So like her kind of top Like I already am

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Speaker 2: not the hugest fan of the baby voice and that

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Speaker 2: kind of like the giggly baby wish which she was

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Speaker 2: forced to like her mother forced her to have that personality.

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Speaker 1: I'm not definitely ann you'll vouch for this.

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Speaker 3: Not a psychologist, okay, but wait, are you a psychiatrist though?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you want some pills? Yeah, adderall all around. But

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Speaker 1: I heard, you know from someone a long time ago

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Speaker 1: that when when older adults women have that baby voice,

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Speaker 1: it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never

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Speaker 1: got past it. Yeah, so they sound the same as

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Speaker 1: they did back then. Right, that sounds cool? Right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's say to say it's real. Well, I've heard the

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Speaker 1: same thing, okay, yeah good? Uh yeah, man, she's being

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Speaker 1: interviewed from prison. Yeah, it's just crazy. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: what her inner life is like.

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Speaker 3: And I wanted to be mad at that dad so bad.

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Speaker 1: But like the dad and a stepmom. But you like

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Speaker 1: you're only.

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Speaker 3: Seeing it through.

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Speaker 2: I feel like if the mom was still alive and

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Speaker 2: she was putting in her two cents, you'd be like,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, I would.

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Speaker 3: Have moved seven states away. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Even the little clips that they had of her were frightening. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like she is a frighten a creepy woman.

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Speaker 1: But like, okay, the dad, while hot, wasn't very smart,

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Speaker 1: so I feel like he was just manipulated and con

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Speaker 1: too clearly for sure, even though his her parents were like,

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Speaker 1: yeah we had like they were conned.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Well, and also when it's that you know that she

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Speaker 2: is either she has some personality disorder I want, I want,

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Speaker 2: even though all I want to do is say which

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Speaker 2: one it is.

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Speaker 3: I won't.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean, if you have munch houses by proxy,

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Speaker 2: which means you're willing to hurt your child to get

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Speaker 2: attentions your heart righting, dinging.

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Speaker 3: All, that's the one I know. But also maybe even

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Speaker 3: maybe even a psychopath. Yeah, somebody tweeted and said psychopaths

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Speaker 3: can't feel anxiety, which would by suck.

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Speaker 2: Was so cool, Yes, because so they never get nervous,

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Speaker 2: so no matter what they do, or who they're lying

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Speaker 2: to or what they're doing They will never have that,

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Speaker 2: like you'll never see the twitch in their eye of

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Speaker 2: like ooh.

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Speaker 1: Or then like burst out into rape, like because anxiety

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Speaker 1: is nervousness. Yeah, and uh, an anticipation of a situation

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Speaker 1: or anticipation of something happening. Yeah, so thank god, I'm

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Speaker 1: clearly not a fucking associate.

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 1: Psychopaths?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we know you're at least we know you're not

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Speaker 3: a psycho.

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Speaker 1: I'm clearly clearly based on my pharmaceutical history. Uh, clearly

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Speaker 1: on a psychopath.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, yeah, the idea because that like going

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Speaker 2: through because I kept going when they would say and

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Speaker 2: then she had this surgery, It's.

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Speaker 3: Like, how the fuck did it get to the point

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Speaker 3: where she's having surgery?

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Speaker 1: Dude? Those doctors, yeah, those I mean, I don'tant. I

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Speaker 1: know that they've moved around a lot of doctors once

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Speaker 1: they got suspicious of it, and she's so manipulated and

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Speaker 1: they wanted to believe her. Why would you not believe

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Speaker 1: a sick child? But I feel like the first I

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Speaker 1: feel like always in a in a pediatrician's mind should

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Speaker 1: be this could possibly be. It has to be there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone knows what it is.

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Speaker 2: But she's inducing with medicine. Right, So she's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: she has this thing, then she's giving her medicine that's

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Speaker 2: giving her the reaction that's making Clearly this woman is

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Speaker 2: smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when they open the medicine cabinet. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: the medicine closet, closet.

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Speaker 3: Also the pictures around the house, from around the house

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Speaker 3: where there's just like brand new Disney slippers everywhere where.

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Speaker 1: It's like Disney thing was creepy as fun.

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Speaker 2: Everything's pink and Disney and creepy. And so she's kind

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Speaker 2: of a hoarder. She's kind of like this, like put

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Speaker 2: on these slippers. It's just yeah, it's the creepiest.

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Speaker 1: And then did you see there was a girl on

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Speaker 1: Twitter who was who like tagged us and was like,

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Speaker 1: I just realized that I have a photo of them

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Speaker 1: with them. It's one of the it's a girl who

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Speaker 1: listens she like worked for Ronald McDonald house or something.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's right, And she's in a.

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Speaker 1: Photo like a photo op with them, yes, smiling, Yes, honey,

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Speaker 1: you win, you won.

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Speaker 2: And also she thinks she has her arm around an

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Speaker 2: eight year old and the girl's fucking eighteen.

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Speaker 3: That's that part of it. Also, because Gypsy's eyes are

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Speaker 3: like a little close together and a little crossed, and

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00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 3: her teeth like stuck straight out, which I'm sure is

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Speaker 3: from being poisoned.

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Speaker 1: Dollar they said, like the leukemia medication.

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Speaker 2: So she kind of has the look about her where

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Speaker 2: it's like something could be wrong. And then what mother

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Speaker 2: brings her baby in and is like, you know, oh,

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Speaker 2: Stephen has it.

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Speaker 3: What's her name, let's give her a.

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Speaker 2: Briann is the one who sent us the picture, and Brian,

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Speaker 2: it's amazing. Also when you look at this mother, you

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Speaker 2: look at a person who used to it. Like in

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Speaker 2: the beginning when they have her the pageant, she was like,

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00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 2: remember she was miss Miss Favor Queen or something that

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Speaker 2: was weird to me too, where.

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Speaker 1: It's like she clearly gave a big shit about the

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Speaker 1: way she looks. Yes, and it's almost like she had

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Speaker 1: this other project now and so she kind of let

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Speaker 1: it go.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she was living vicariously through her daughter's illness, so

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00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: she was she was elicited that exact like she wanted

356
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 2: pity sympathy, she wanted like an emotional connection, but she

357
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Speaker 2: didn't believe she could have it the way.

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Speaker 3: She looked on her own Merit.

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Speaker 1: The other show that I want to talk about. I

360
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 1: don't know if you've watched it, but I randomly watched it,

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00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 1: and you have to and everyone has, especially if you're

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00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 1: into fucking sociopaths, which who isn't the Bernie made Off

363
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Speaker 1: Oh entry with fucking Robert de Niro's Bernie made Off Gore.

364
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 1: It is so good. Oh, Okay, I know I'm obsessed

365
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: with the Bernie made Off case anyways, and I know

366
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: it's not murder and all this shit. But he's a sociopath, yes,

367
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: and so it's really interesting the way they kind of

368
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Speaker 1: show it's just such a tragic story.

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Speaker 3: He might even be a psychopath too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, it's so good. Oh and then it's

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00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: what's her beautiful face as the wife? Uh, what's her name?

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Speaker 1: Michelle Pfiffer.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, she's great.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's it's really fucking good. Everyone. Oh cool,

375
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,679
Speaker 1: it's really fucking good. Cool, And that's it for me.

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Speaker 3: That's it for me.

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00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: Let's get out of here. But bye, okay, we are back.

378
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: How's that dating app ban going for you? Karen?

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, the dating app ban, which is essentially

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00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 2: like be a workaholic your whole life and then just

381
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,879
Speaker 2: see who you can meet through front at the gas station.

382
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Speaker 2: It's not ideal. I'm trying to work on it, but

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00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 2: it's not ideal. Just in my own defense. LA was

384
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Speaker 2: recently ranked second worst among large US cities for dating,

385
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 2: citing high divorce rates, low marriage likelihood, and low quote

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Speaker 2: unquote quality of life metrics for singles. This is, according

387
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,439
Speaker 2: to Time Out Worldwide. The number one city on that

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00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 2: list New York City.

389
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Speaker 3: New York.

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Speaker 1: See, I mean, LA doesn't seem fucking cool at all,

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Speaker 1: But to be fair, it's where I'd met literally all

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Speaker 1: my adult boyfriends, so I can't complain. But New York

393
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Speaker 1: seems fucking horrible.

394
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: Horrible, I mean because at least you don't even have

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00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 2: the fun kind of like, you know, the schmoozy Here

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00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. People are phony, sure, yeah, but at

397
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: least they're good at being phony, Like they'll compliment you.

398
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,880
Speaker 2: You won't see it coming, it'll be a good time,

399
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,120
Speaker 2: as had by all New York. It seems like it's

400
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,919
Speaker 2: a bunch of finance bro types that are like yelling

401
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 2: at women in the streets.

402
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: Right, something that like want a wife and kids. They

403
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 1: don't want, like, you know, you to be interesting. Also

404
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 1: the other thing too that I'm thinking about is like

405
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,399
Speaker 1: you can be like here in LA you can go like,

406
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: let's go for a hike date. That's like a thing

407
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 1: which I never do, but it's free. In New York,

408
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: you have to go for a fucking thirty six dollars

409
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 1: cocktail every fucking time you want to get on date, right,

410
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 1: Like it's right maybe cheap, there's no hiking.

411
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 2: Or if a guy says, like, let's walk around you

412
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: know yeah I almost said public Park, Central Park. Yeah,

413
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: you'd be like, no, creepy, yeah, Like I mean, how

414
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 2: do you I don't know.

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00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,199
Speaker 1: What's your perfect first date? Like if you have it,

416
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: like you're going to meet someone you don't know, like

417
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 1: you might like them, you might not like them. It's

418
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: not even like someone you love.

419
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 2: Like how about just to walk through home goods ooh,

420
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,360
Speaker 2: and then like there's some yes, right, someone needs a spatula.

421
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: It goes on for what thirty minutes and then you're like, okay,

422
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 2: thanks so much and we can just like process this

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00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 2: and see if idan work.

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Speaker 1: A great you get a ramp average like a you know,

425
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: coffee or whatever. You walk through home goods and if

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00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: they're able to like make fun of things the way

427
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do in home goods and then pick

428
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: up a thing that they need, like a spatula, you

429
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: fucking marry that person.

430
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: I think you would learn a lot about watching someone's

431
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 2: shop at home goods, because like, are you the kind

432
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: of person that skips the food asal or you like

433
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: me the kind of person's like, surely I don't want

434
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 2: any of this weird colored pasta, But what if there

435
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: is a hazelnut candy.

436
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 1: I've never heard of these hard candies that taste like violets,

437
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: Like what's happening?

438
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 2: I've never had candy from Finland? Maybe I should give

439
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 2: it a whirl. I mean, I don't know things like that.

440
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: Karen.

441
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 1: That's honestly like fucking brilliant.

442
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 3: There needs to be like have I done it?

443
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: You did? Like there needs to be a home goods

444
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: date night where they close to anyone but people on dates.

445
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: And it's almost like you also have to if you're

446
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: going to be there, you have to need something, right, So.

447
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: I got to pick up nine hundred clip chips whatever.

448
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So I need magnets for my refrigerator. I

449
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 2: can only get them here.

450
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: And like what if on date night they turn the

451
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: lights down a little bit so it's like a little

452
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: more flattering.

453
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: Play a little Neil sadaka, I think you did it.

454
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: I think I've done it, And Home Goods email me.

455
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: Let's get this thing going.

456
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: Home Goods date night. That's fucking also.

457
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 2: Because just as an older person, it's like all the

458
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: conversations around dating are truly for the twenty and thirty

459
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: year olds, granted and God bless. Yeah, when you're older,

460
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 2: it's like I think there's a part of me where

461
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 2: it's like it's not the pressing fear that I used

462
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 2: to have because I really have built this life that

463
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: I am really enjoying and really kind of like thrilled by.

464
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 2: I genuinely all my dreams have come true and do

465
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: come true all the time, So it don't have that

466
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: big empty space type of feeling.

467
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: Right, there's not a rush to have a baby or

468
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: to like buy a home or anything like that anymore

469
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 1: for you.

470
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's more like, oh, this is neat, what's happening?

471
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: Who's going to be here? Like it's just kind of

472
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: that feeling. So then going out of my way to

473
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 2: like drink coffee with a stranger and make small talk

474
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: is truly my worst nightmare to begin with.

475
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: And psychologically, walking side by side makes you talk more

476
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: and makes you more open than when you're sitting across

477
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: from someone just talking. It's why you have the best

478
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: conversations when you're in a car.

479
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: That's why do you need to ride works Truly, we

480
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: get people to say anything.

481
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: That's right back there. Oh my god, I'm obsessed.

482
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: It's true, It's really true.

483
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: It's crazy that this was just happening too. So going

484
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: back to the podcast that Todd cole he fucking case

485
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: was just breaking at the time.

486
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 2: That was breaking and very disturbing breaking, like how everyone

487
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: found out about it is just so upsetting. And yeah,

488
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: and then we finally covered that.

489
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: So maybe let's give an update really quick. So Todd

490
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: Coleheath is now serving seven consecutive life sentences without the

491
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: possibility of parole.

492
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: Yes, he's also currently under investigation for possibly profiting from

493
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: those crimes, after prison messages surface showing that he was

494
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: planning merchandise sales and discussing book or documentary deal.

495
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: As the Fox.

496
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: So as a result of those messages, the South Carolina

497
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: Department of Corrections moved him to its most secure housing unit,

498
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: removed his tablet privileges indefinitely, and is pursuing disciplinary charges.

499
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 2: Also, the Inspector General's Office is reviewing whether new criminal

500
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: charges should be filed against him for attempts to monetize

501
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: his notoriety. I mean, that's an amazing leap forward that

502
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: I don't think was Like we've talked about that a lot,

503
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: you know, For all the mistakes we've made on this podcast,

504
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: I feel like this, this is one area we've been

505
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: pretty solid in, which is serial killers are not the celebrities.

506
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 3: They're not the stars.

507
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: They're not who anyone should be focusing on, certainly not

508
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: the people that should be given deals or any of

509
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: that kind of shit. It's like, if you want to

510
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: hear from those people, read any of the other books

511
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: that were written by people that are also psychotic or whatever, right.

512
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: Or then watch the documentary where they interview the victims'

513
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: families and what they went through, not the guy and

514
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: what he put them through. Nobody fucking wants to hear.

515
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: That, right, And I'm It's interesting because it's like that

516
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: reminds me of after watching The Tinder Swindler, who I

517
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: think just went to jail, but there was a person

518
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: like that was one of the breaking stories back when

519
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 2: the news cycle involved things like that, where there was

520
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: a manager who reached out to him to get him

521
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: set up for like he could so he could have

522
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: writ like a you know, a Bravo show the Tinder

523
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: Swindler hosts whatever. And of course everyone was like, no,

524
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: go fuck yourself, like this is disgusting when you're.

525
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: The manager going after the swindler or the murderer or

526
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: the whatever, Like it's time to join the Peace Corps,

527
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: Like it's time to drop out of society and go

528
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: help people because you've just gotten on the wrong track

529
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: at that point, you know.

530
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: Right, you're just trying to make something out of anything

531
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 2: that does numbers. And it's like, nah, it's a little

532
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: harder than that.

533
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 3: You I think you have to do it. It's you

534
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: have to do it a little bit.

535
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: Better than that life in general, yeah, yeah.

536
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: Being a human being.

537
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: Right, So I actually did covers if you want to

538
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: hear the whole story of Todd Coleheb and his Horrible Crimes.

539
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: It's episode four fifty eight. The episode is called The

540
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: Demands Are Incredible.

541
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because I don't think we knew at

542
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: the time how this case would unfold because he is

543
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: then tied to other cases, which is just chilling. Yeah, definitely,

544
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: that's what that was a great You did a great

545
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: job on that one.

546
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 2: Thank you.

547
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: All right? Oh god, this case that I covered and

548
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: this one is just chilling.

549
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a bad one. And well, let's just

550
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: get into it.

551
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: It's time to listen to Georgia tell her story about

552
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,120
Speaker 2: the Fall River cult murder.

553
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: Okay, oh yeah, who goes? Should we should we talk

554
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: about murder?

555
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

556
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: Let's do it, okay me Stevens? You all right? Okayaren?

557
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: Yes you love cults?

558
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes?

559
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes? Or no?

560
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 2: Should I lean all the way back and stick my

561
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: feet up in there and just listen up?

562
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: Because this is my favorite topic.

563
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: A comfy girl. Actually, I found Ny Night Karen Karen

564
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: Leaping found what There was one cult that I wanted

565
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: to do and then I don't know why I never

566
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: did it, but then I was just like, what are

567
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: other Because I'm not a big cult I mean, I

568
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: love Jamestown obviously. Jonestown Jamestown. Clearly, I'm a big fan.

569
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: I love James Jamestown. Jamestown. That's actually like a really

570
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: nice little like retreat. It's a camp for children with issues.

571
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: I believe Jamestown is like the first settlement and the Colonies.

572
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: But I definitely could be wrong because I can't remember

573
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: high school at all, so I wasn't in no way

574
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: laughing at you.

575
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 3: For that part.

576
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 2: But I do love I love the old joke of

577
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of this and then say the

578
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: different that's you always go with them?

579
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: Can you do it on purpose?

580
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: I love it. Listen when I get shit wrong. I

581
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: think it's hilarious.

582
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: Jonestown is I love it too, obviously because it came

583
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: out of San Francisco. It's like when it can be

584
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: I mean, that's as a hometown.

585
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: It's just so epic.

586
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: Just the amount of people who actually killed themselves is epic.

587
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: Like I look up Heaven's Gate, which I thought was

588
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: really fascinating. That's a good one. It's just fucking cool.

589
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: Heaven's Gate is so crazy too, because it's so sinister

590
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: and yet dull. That's the weirdest part about It's like

591
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: we think we're going to go to a planet or

592
00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: a spaceship or whatever. We like computers and we want

593
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: to be androgynosts, and then we kill ourselves the end.

594
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: There's no blood, there's no.

595
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: I think they killed some people Heaven's Gate. Yeah, who

596
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: like left the thing? Oh yeah, yeah, I'll have to

597
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: do it sometimes. I really want to do Waco because

598
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: I think it's way more complicated. I just I kind

599
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: of don't want to touch it because it's I think

600
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: it's pretty fucking inflammatory.

601
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, like, oh that was no, it is.

602
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: You're right, because I think the story everybody got initially

603
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: it was like these lunatics and.

604
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: They was a place on fire, and it's like, I

605
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: don't think there was Yeah there was children in there.

606
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, children in there.

607
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: You weren't letting them come out.

608
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot to it.

609
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: Okay, anyhow, this is the Fall Rivers cult murder. Who

610
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: had never heard.

611
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: Of it, never heard of it?

612
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: Okay, an hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers, Massachusetts,

613
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: got that one right. In the nineteen seventies. There was

614
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: a crazy fucking recession. They had the gas shortage. She

615
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: had to wait in line, and what was it you

616
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: can only get gas on certain days depending on when

617
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: your license plate.

618
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: Ended and whatever it was.

619
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: So it was like odd days Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I

620
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: mean odd numbers, Monday, whatever. I remember waiting in line

621
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: with my dad at the I believe it is now

622
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: a shell on Pedula Boulevard.

623
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: It was South gas and go or something. It was

624
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: a something good.

625
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: I can't I can't remember what it was, but it

626
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: was like we were out in this like out in

627
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: the different.

628
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: Street waiting to get into.

629
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: The gas station. Done that at Costco before, but not Yeah,

630
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: think of that. But everyone's broken out of a job. Yes, yes,

631
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: pre Costco.

632
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: There's the idea of even buying wholesale was like inane.

633
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone was broke.

634
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

635
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: So nineteen seventies, Uh, Fall River Rivers is hit super

636
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: fucking hard. Factories closed, buildings, abandoned, all that stuff. So

637
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: like Main Street is empty, which just led to a

638
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: crazy CD underground of drugs and sex working to flourish. Yeah,

639
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: so the first victim of the Fall River murders. Can

640
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: you can you look up if it's Fall River or

641
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: Fall Rivers. There's there's no s it's Fall River. Okay,

642
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: So everyone calmed down. Got this right because I've written

643
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: it both ways. The first victim of the Fall River

644
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: murders is say Fall Rivers or Falls River. Sorry, sorry, fuck,

645
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna say both ways, Falls Rivers murders.

646
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: It gets sad now, so let's okay.

647
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, be cool.

648
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: Seventeen year old runaway Duren Levec. She had escaped her

649
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: new Bedford foster home and she got out of there

650
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: and went to Fall River and turned to sex work

651
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: to survive.

652
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: Seventeen years old. Oh Jesus, and like, so fucking every

653
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 3: story here about foster homes. Obviously there are good foster

654
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: parents out.

655
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: There and all blood a blah, but man, oh man,

656
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: Like I have a friend who grew up in several

657
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: foster homes, and it's just like one horrible story after

658
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: the other.

659
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: It's just the thing. I'm like, Well, can you imagine

660
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: if working on the street in sex work is the

661
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: better alternative than living with your foster family. Yeah, that's

662
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: like that you can imagine with them must be like horrible.

663
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: Not that there aren't great foster parents out there. In fact,

664
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: I want to be one one day, but not in

665
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: the seventies. There wasn't okay, she was. So her body

666
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: is found on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy nine, under the

667
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 1: bleachers at the local high school. Yeah. Her wrists had

668
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: been bound with fishing line and she had been stabbed

669
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: in the head several times and her face what had

670
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: been beaten so bad that she was unrecognizable. Then, a

671
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: month after she had been found, a man named Andy

672
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: Maltius goes to the Fall River police station. He wants

673
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: to file a missing person's report for his girlfriend. Uh huh, they.

674
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: Won't do it.

675
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: Ah fucking there's a twist, Okay, a twenty two year

676
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: old sex worker. That's who she is, Barbara Riposa. He

677
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,479
Speaker 1: tells her that he's scared for her safety, and then

678
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: he starts to randomly mumble something about a satanic cult,

679
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: and he says he has information relating to the other

680
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: murder of Dreen Levec whoa. Yeah. So he is a

681
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: very mentally unstable creep. He's a pedophile, a sex sadist,

682
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: and a violent rapist. And when he's questioned by the police,

683
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: he told them that there was a satanic cult operating

684
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: within the Fall River area and the sex worker community.

685
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: So the whole community of drug addicts and sex workers.

686
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ are fucking Satanists. And this is during the

687
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: Satanic panic, remember that, Yeah, which is like the stupidest thing.

688
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: But then there were Satanists.

689
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: Who also it's a violent rapist reporting like, yeah, how

690
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: bad does it have to be?

691
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah?

692
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: Once again, that's just.

693
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 2: Crazy where it's like I'm I'm the worst person and

694
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the police because this is

695
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: this bad.

696
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: I'm so worried about my girlfriend. Oh and yeah, so okay.

697
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: Then Karen Marston, she's a twenty year old single mother.

698
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: She's a drug addict, teenage runaway. It was a teenage runaway.

699
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: She's also working as a sex worker. She comes forward

700
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: because she's afraid for her life. She tells the police

701
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: that the local pimp, Carl Drew, was the ringleader of

702
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: this Satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders.

703
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: The murder excuse me. She felt that she knew too

704
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: much and was too inside the close knit circle of

705
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: the Satanic group to remain safe. So she's fucking terrified.

706
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: The police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but

707
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: she denied it. She didn't want it. Uh, oh, who

708
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: knows why. I mean, I'm sure she doesn't trust the cops,

709
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: and she's a drug addict. You don't make the best

710
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: fucking decisions when you're on drugs.

711
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: And also if you're trying to do drugs, you don't

712
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: want to cop around him, right, protecting you?

713
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 3: Right, You're like, I just need to get high.

714
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So Drew, let's talk about Carl Drew,

715
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: the woman the man she fingered for the murder. Listen, look, listen,

716
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: you guys said it. I didn't. You guys are.

717
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 2: Gross Steven, play back that tape.

718
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: This is a murder podcast, please, I know it all right.

719
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: Carl Drew twenty five years old. He's from New Hampshire.

720
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: He'd been raised on a small farm, and the story

721
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: is that he had a childhood of hard labor and

722
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: physical abuse. He told a story later of his alcoholic

723
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: father tying a rope around his ankles and lowering him

724
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: down a well to remove a cluster of dead rats.

725
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 3: Oh no, why face to face with that shit, and

726
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 3: also fucking leave him there in the well.

727
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: Theylla just what's it called? One things? That's great?

728
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally leave him in the well. How about you

729
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: pour some goddamn battery acid down that.

730
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 3: Well, and your kid.

731
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: Well. In addition, he lived on the farm, so he

732
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: was taught to butcher livestock, and he got the job

733
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: of cleaning the farm's slaughter pit. Again, send that kid

734
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: in there, Yan. He had a way through rotting carcasses

735
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: in order to separate the hides and hoofs for rendering,

736
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: which you know, all of that just smelled so horrific.

737
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: I mean, and you would smell like that for days days.

738
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: Well, this is this is like if I were gone

739
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: with Paltrow and I was like, it was hard for

740
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: me too. I made bone broth recently, Stephen cut that out. Well,

741
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: you have to you have to boil the marrow bones

742
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: for like forty eight hours, and it just gets the

743
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: smell that is so horrific and not good.

744
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah did that smell like linger? Oh yeah? Yeah.

745
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: So then when I ever, like, I can't drink it

746
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: now because it's so disgusting, everybody else make your Yeah,

747
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: you buy it. I know it's expensive, Gwyneth Paltrow, but

748
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: you guys, look at the gut issues, dumb bro it's

749
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: really good for you. Anyways, But where was I at fourteen,

750
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: he runs away to the Fall River. He eventually becomes

751
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: a pimp, and he's a Satanist, and he uses Satanism

752
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: to terrify the sex workers who worked for him. Yeah,

753
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: he had a felony record, convictions for assault, weapons possession,

754
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: and armed robbery. So he's a real great dude. He

755
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: claims later to be the son of Satan. Okay, it's like,

756
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: who knows?

757
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: Did he? Did Satan have kids?

758
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: Oh? I wonder? Yeah I do too, Like did they change?

759
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: Did Satan change diapers?

760
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: I mean that he wasn't a good father.

761
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: Was like she the wife woke up and he's like,

762
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 1: it's your.

763
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 3: Durn, it's your dune. And he's like no, yeah, I'm

764
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: Satan fucking Satan. Yeah I have to do it again. Yeah,

765
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 3: uh the son of Satan. Yeah, okay, come on, yeah,

766
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: I mean most people claim to be Satan, right, isn't

767
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: that more of the thing? Yeah, okay, it doesn't matter.

768
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. He makes the sex workers participate in his animal

769
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: sacrifices and tells them that the same thing would happen

770
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: to them if they disobeyed him. So he wasn't one

771
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: of those nice pimps that ever. Rooman talks or nice

772
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: Satanists or nice Satanists. There are nice ones.

773
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: I mean you seem Satanists. That's fine, I mean whatever. Yeah,

774
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 3: they're chilled out.

775
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh.

776
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: It seems just like a tool to control people. It's

777
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: just a using fear, like this is the thing you're

778
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: scared of. I'll use this symbol, yeah, and it'll control

779
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: your behavior.

780
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: And I'm on all the math, all the fucking like

781
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: Fall River math, which is probably not No, that's the

782
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: good stuff. Yeah, no offense to them. But so the

783
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: Fall River Cult they had like maybe up to ten members.

784
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: They're all associated with the Fall River sex trade. So

785
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: between nineteen seventy in nineteen eighty they held a bunch

786
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy.

787
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: And during the sciences, this guy, Carl Drew would speak

788
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: in different a different voice and in different languages, and

789
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: everyone who had been there was like, no, he it

790
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: wasn't gibberish. He was speaking another language, wow, which was

791
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: like all right, Umm.

792
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 3: Did he know Spanish? Yeah? Had he gotten the Rosetta Stone?

793
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 3: Was CD?

794
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: I know pig Latin. That doesn't mean I'm speaking in

795
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: another language. And we you and I speak in a

796
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: different voice whenever we do fucking ads.

797
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: That's right, so you can do lots of voices.

798
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm not in coloring, not impressed with this.

799
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: Carl, Carl, Carl, your fucking nerd Carl. He's still alive,

800
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: so lips Steven, edit that up for sure.

801
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: Don't edit this whole story out. I forgot to mention

802
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: he's still alive. Okay. First the ritual's rituals involved sex

803
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: and drugs, but then things took a turn when he

804
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: was like human sacrifice time. Oh no, no, okay. The

805
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's twenty two, another known

806
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: sex worker. Her body's discovered. But oh, here's horrible. A

807
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: man is out walking his dog in the forest. It's

808
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: a beagle, picture it, Yes, His dog starts sniffing around

809
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: and like starts to kind of chomp on something.

810
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: M hm.

811
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: And he thinks it's just an animal because she was

812
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: so unrecognizable that he didn't realize it was a human.

813
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 3: Was the full body or just a part?

814
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: I think it was a full body, Oh man, but

815
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: in the bushes, you know what I mean? Yes, So

816
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: that poor dog and that poor man. Do you think

817
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: that dog. He ever let the dog come on the

818
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: face again.

819
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: I think he probably put that dog down.

820
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, once they get a taste.

821
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: It's so dark, I know, But it really is not

822
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: to be hacky and say the same thing we say

823
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 2: all the time. But it's like, what I understand, there's

824
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: a benefit of going into the forest if you have

825
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: a large group and you're there to really hike it

826
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: up and be a team or whatever.

827
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: Walking alone with.

828
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Your dog in the forest, I feel like there's only

829
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: a couple things that can happen to you, and they're bad.

830
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: Like your dog doesn't care if it's in the forest

831
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb, right, Why, it's

832
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: like not that your dog is more stoked when he

833
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: goes into the Why are you?

834
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: And then at the same time, I have to be

835
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 2: totally honest and say, I am jealous of that guy

836
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: because because he gets to do that, because it just

837
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: that moment must must have been horrifying, and like just

838
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: it's just a seminal moment.

839
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: It's a watershed moment.

840
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: I wonder. I wonder, I don't ever want to know.

841
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: I wonder. Here's what I wonder.

842
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: Are seminal and watershed synonyms or did I just say

843
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 2: two different things.

844
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: Seminal is like yeah, no, but they're yeah, they're like right,

845
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: you just said it in better words than defining.

846
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it's

847
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 2: whatever my brain off.

848
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: Sounded like the saurus Jesus, I can't say that the saurus.

849
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: Thank you, you're welcome.

850
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: Um. Okay, she had been so Barbara Riposa, she's been

851
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: badly Okay, she's got her hands bound, she's face down,

852
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: she's on a flat stone that resembles an altar. She

853
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: had been so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed.

854
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: There were stab wounds to her head again. And yeah.

855
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: So then on February nineteen eighty, the cult's third victim

856
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: was killed. This is twenty two year old who you

857
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: may remember, her name, Karen Marston. Oh, no, woman who

858
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: had gone in because she was afraid.

859
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: So, oh no, I'm sorry. I'd immediately assumed it was

860
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: the missing woman. But this is the one who fucking

861
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 2: showed up herself.

862
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the one who went in. She's this twenty year

863
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: old single mother drug addict, and she feared for her life.

864
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: She's the one who came in and said no, thank

865
00:41:53,600 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: you to victim's protection. So she is, uh, she's the

866
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: one who comes forward. So she had been present, it

867
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: turns out at that first murder of Doreen Levek, So

868
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: she had been there. So that's how she was why

869
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: she was afraid. Yeah, and it terrified her so much

870
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: that that's why she went to the police and Carl uh

871
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: what's his last name Drew found out about it. Yeah,

872
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: So her head was beaten in with a rock. Then,

873
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: according to the story, Drew then broke her neck with

874
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: his bare hands. And according to someone else who had

875
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: been there, was a cult devotee, devotee, devote devot she

876
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: was devoted uh and sex worker. She's seventeen year old

877
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: Robin Murphy and she was there and according to her,

878
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit

879
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: Karen's throat.

880
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: Whoa.

881
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: So then he cut an X into her into Karen's chest.

882
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: Do you want me to say her last name instead

883
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: of Karen? No, it's probably okay, uh. And he used

884
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: the blood to put an X on this Robin Murphy's forehead.

885
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: Then they played around with this head.

886
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, drugs, drugs, drugs, that's all I can.

887
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: Think, can you imagine not even just the detachment of

888
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: being able to kill someone, but then to have a

889
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: human head in front of you and not like I

890
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: feel like I would pass the fuck out saying why

891
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: she would?

892
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: You would be in total shock. I mean you would be.

893
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: It's horrifying.

894
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: Well clearly, like if I see someone get hurt, I

895
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is and

896
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: I see it and I can identify with it.

897
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: So like, you're really underlining this point that you're not

898
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: a sociopath.

899
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: So I'm a really good yawn right now. Yon I'll

900
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: fucking yon too. See in case they're a new listener

901
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: that it's the test of a sociopath of you yawn

902
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: and the person doesn't yonn too, then they don't have

903
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: empathy for you. It's just this automatic response.

904
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: No. I mean, but I deserve saying it's just.

905
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 2: So gross even that we're talking about it, much less

906
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: to witness it, be a part of it, take part

907
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: in it.

908
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: It doesn't. It's just defies.

909
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: Logic and the fact that not only is there one

910
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: person who does it, but you'll know someone else who's

911
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: cool with it too, Like the fact that there can

912
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: be two people, because I feel like that'd be one

913
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: in a million people. Yeah, but I guess they all

914
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: live in Fall River do Okay?

915
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: Uh so only wait, telegram just arrived. It's everyone who

916
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 2: lives in Full River. They're super pissed at us, but.

917
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: They're suing us. It's for defamation and.

918
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 3: They said Twitter's not fast enough. We needed to let

919
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 3: you know how livid we are.

920
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: It's actually it's a clown and it's a singing telegram.

921
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 3: But he's got a bloody X on his head.

922
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't worry about it. So only her school was

923
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: ever found, and the reason they found it is because

924
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: she had had X rays of her head, which I'm

925
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: like she had. They said she had sinus issue.

926
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 3: Oh so there was something to compare it like they

927
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: knew who it was.

928
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, got it? Which is crazy. So finally a break

929
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: comes in the case. They the police had wiretapped the

930
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: phone hoping that they would find Carl Drew speaking about

931
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: the murders. But it's not him. It's the seventeen year

932
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: old girlfriend, Robert Murphy, and she is a sex worker

933
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: and aspiring pimp. So she's talking and it turns out

934
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: that she was saying that twenty five year old Drew

935
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: was not the ringleader, but that she was that rob

936
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: Seventeen year old Robin Murphy is huh. Robin Murphy contacts

937
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: police and she offers to testify against Andy Maltius. Remember

938
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: the guy who went in because he was his girlfriend. Yeah,

939
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: as a witness to the murder of his girlfriend. So

940
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: he killed his girlfriend and then went looking for her.

941
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: Is her story?

942
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: Oh?

943
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: Like, so was the setup? Basically like he was trying

944
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: to make him self look innocent.

945
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: Maybe unless Robin's lying, Okay. She also claimed to be

946
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: present for the Dorian Levech murder, and she agreed to

947
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: turn state's evidence in that case. She was like, I'll

948
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: tell you everything. In exchange, she gets a deal where

949
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: she's placed in proctive protective custody and she gets immunity

950
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: in both murders unless she was there for them, and yeah,

951
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 1: then they don't know if she was involved.

952
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that seems like a dream, Like that's

953
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: basically her going, here's what I wish.

954
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like granted. Yeah, So the story she

955
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: gave police was that Andy Maltius killed his girlfriend, Barbara

956
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: Raposa because he found out that she'd been cheating on

957
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: him with another man. So he goes to trial first

958
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: and based mostly on the testimony of Robin Murphy. In

959
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty one, he's convicted of the first degree

960
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: murder of Barbara Raposa, given a life sentence without the

961
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: possibility of parole, and he's later considered to be a

962
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: suspect in a few other unsolved area rapes dating back

963
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: to the early seventies, but no additional charges are ever

964
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: brought against him. He and then later he's found to

965
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: be clinically insane, but they still didn't overturn the verdict

966
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 1: or give him a new trial or anything like that.

967
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: But he ended up dying of cancer in nineteen ninety eight.

968
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: Wow in prison. Wow. So then Robin is allowed to

969
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: plead to the lesser charge of second degree murder in

970
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: exchange for her testimony against everyone, and they keep the

971
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: immunity deal that she had going and she received no

972
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: additional charges in connection with either of the other two murders,

973
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: so she's only getting charged with the murder the last

974
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 1: murder of Karen.

975
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 2: So basically it was like whoever runs forward first and says,

976
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: I will like snitch on everybody else is the person

977
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:54,479
Speaker 2: who gets the deal.

978
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: I think so, And like, I'll hear about plea deals

979
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 1: where they're like they agree that you know, the attorneys whatever.

980
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. They agree to the terms of taking

981
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: a plea only if the information matches up. Yeah, so

982
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: if they end up they would agree to them if

983
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: this thing is the case? Is this thing is true,

984
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 1: which we should totally have Guy back on and ask

985
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: him about yeah, because that seems much more you know,

986
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: what's the word makes much more sense than just being

987
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: like okay anything you say no, no.

988
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 3: I think isn't that always the rule that the thing that.

989
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: You say has to then basically solve the crime and

990
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: be the thing that convicts the person, Right, Yeah, I'm

991
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: pretty sure that.

992
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should definitely have.

993
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: Guy back or like saying that their involvement is is

994
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: this that has to be true? You know what I mean, like,

995
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: I'll testify here is my involvement. But if later it

996
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: turns out that that involvement isn't true, that you lie

997
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: about it, I don't know what's us guy.

998
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: No, it wouldn't be that because that's like then they

999
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: would be planning for the person to lie, which.

1000
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: They could find anything. Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. Okay.

1001
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 2: I mean, what a boring part of a show where

1002
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 2: we were like, we don't know anything about the law,

1003
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: but let's say what we feel.

1004
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Definitely, let's talk about it.

1005
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: It's me going, I don't think it's that, but not

1006
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: based on anything other than my just my gut.

1007
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: I didn't go to law school, but I bet there's

1008
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: a really simple explanation to this.

1009
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 3: Let's keep talking. Listen.

1010
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm a psychiatrist, I'm a lawyer, I'm a pologist, I'm

1011
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: a psychologist. It's great. I'm a cat. I'm also a cat. Okay, okay.

1012
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: So this chick Murphy received or her name what was

1013
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: her name again, Robin Murphy's. She received a life sentence

1014
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: with the possibility of parole. She spends twenty four years

1015
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: in jail in prison, and then she's released on June tenth,

1016
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, but thank god, she violated her

1017
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: parole and she goes to prison seven years later. She's

1018
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: currently serving her time in a maximum security prison in Massachusetts,

1019
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: and in eighty four she recants the entire stuf. She

1020
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: says none of it is true. She's trying to get

1021
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: a new trial, it doesn't happen. She's eligible for parole

1022
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: in March twenty seventeen, which, if you look at your calendar,

1023
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: was like two months ago, and they're reviewing it right now.

1024
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: Hold on, So, in saying that the whole story is

1025
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: not true, is what she's saying that the Satanic cult

1026
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: part's not true? Or she's saying that her part in

1027
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: the murder isn't true.

1028
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: I think what she's saying is that the people she

1029
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 1: is fingering for the crime didn't actually do it. Wow,

1030
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: she doesn't. It's not true, got it. I don't know

1031
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: exactly if she gave an alternative story. I couldn't find

1032
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 1: anything on that. So Carl Davis, who's a different Carl

1033
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: who's involved with the slaughter, with the murder of Karen Marson,

1034
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't ever stand trial for it, and the following

1035
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: year he's arrested for assaulting a woman named Sunny Sparta,

1036
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: and according to the statement by Carl Drew the other

1037
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: guy on his wait for it personal blog, he's still

1038
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: in prison.

1039
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 3: He's a blogger.

1040
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's said that Carl Davis beat up this three

1041
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: month pregnant woman Sonny stabbed her in the head with

1042
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: a knife, and only because she had information implicating him

1043
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: Carl Davis and the woman Robin, and that Carl Drew

1044
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, but she was too scared.

1045
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: This woman Sonny was then too scared to testify.

1046
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 3: Jesus, that just keeps happening with these people.

1047
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's some really convoluted, crazy shit going on.

1048
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: It kind of makes sense though that they wouldn't be

1049
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 3: involving this truly right satanic, scariest person.

1050
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: Well he's if he's not in prison.

1051
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah right, It's almost like that usually happens, where they

1052
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 2: manipulate everybody into doing what they want, yeah, the whole time,

1053
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:52,959
Speaker 2: and then everyone else takes a fall.

1054
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: Well, they're proving that. It's proven a couple of times

1055
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: that they kill people who snitch. Yes, and if Carl

1056
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: Drew is the killer, then they could talk. But because

1057
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: he's locked up. But if the dude who actually did

1058
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: it isn't locked up, I don't know.

1059
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 3: Listen, that really seemed like it was going somewhere.

1060
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: It was he get it, like I don't even need

1061
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: to finish it, you know what I mean, Like it's

1062
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: just I'm just talking. So okay, So for that stabbing

1063
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: he served seven years and he's now free. This guy

1064
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: Carl Davis. Fuck, okay, getting to these.

1065
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of bad Carls in that area, Carl,

1066
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: It's so many.

1067
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 3: Bad Carls, all right.

1068
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: So the case of the first chick, Dauren Levec, never

1069
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: goes to trial because the district attorney is like, it

1070
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: would cost too much and it would be futile because

1071
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: he already has Carl Drew already has a life sentence.

1072
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,919
Speaker 1: So what's the point. It's called uh justice, They cover

1073
00:52:54,040 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: out the word all the charges against Okay. Anyways, Okay,

1074
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: so people still think that the actual ringleader and the

1075
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 1: murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin.

1076
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 3: This seventeen year olds want to be pimp girl.

1077
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: Well, according to according to this blog that he writes,

1078
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: which I read it and it's actually it's pretty it's good.

1079
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: It's like he's he is pissed off about his trial.

1080
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: He like goes down the breakthrough of what happened and

1081
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, all this like prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses

1082
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: to you know, testify against him, and he says that

1083
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: her IQ was one hundred and thirty eight. She was

1084
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: incredibly smart and manipulative, and the attorneys don't want to

1085
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: admit that they got fooled by a seventeen year old

1086
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: girl apparently.

1087
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 3: Just real quick.

1088
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: So do you think Robin and Carl like went to

1089
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: the IQ place one day together and just like get

1090
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: text some tests and we're like, oh my god, what

1091
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: did you get?

1092
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: You get?

1093
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: Did you get?

1094
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: Well, they just both went online and did one of this,

1095
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: like a key testt have to put your email dress

1096
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: in so it's so annoying to get it, you know those,

1097
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: and like you've gotten to the end of it and

1098
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: you don't want to give them your email address, but like.

1099
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 3: But you have to find out you went.

1100
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: You took ten minutes out of your Yeah, when you're

1101
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be working.

1102
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: I just love that he had her IQ right there

1103
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: on hand.

1104
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: Well, he said that they gave it to her when

1105
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: she went into prison, which I don't think they do.

1106
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 3: How did he know that?

1107
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: Good question?

1108
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: Just because he has a blog, Let's not give him

1109
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: all this credit all of a sudden, he's the greatest.

1110
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: I think every blogger is the greatest. You know that

1111
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: about me. The minute I fan someone.

1112
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 3: Has a blog, I'm like you relate because you're also

1113
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: a blogger.

1114
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh they must be really smart.

1115
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: Oh my god, my kindred, my kind my kind my people.

1116
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: So they think that Robin acted alone or really it's

1117
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: a mastermind, and that Drew is actually totally innocent. But

1118
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: he's convicted a first degree murder and for Karen's murder

1119
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: and serving a life in Massachusetts, no possibility of parole. Then,

1120
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: so Robin ends up recanting her statement. She claimed she

1121
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: lighted about the whole thing and that the Carl Drew

1122
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: wasn't even involved. She says he wasn't even involved, and

1123
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: three witnesses come forward who had testified against him, that

1124
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and

1125
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: that they actually wanted to testify for him, but they

1126
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: got too scared and didn't.

1127
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,439
Speaker 2: And so sorry. So then according to that story, it's

1128
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 2: the other bad.

1129
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 3: Carl, it's or it's no, it's Rob.

1130
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: There's a mystery maybe Robin and this other Carl, who know.

1131
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly, but Robin is definitely a mastermind

1132
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: in it, and so who knows who else she worked with.

1133
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,479
Speaker 3: But that's kind of an amazing movie right there. Yeah,

1134
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 3: you get it. One of those fanning girls cast them.

1135
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: It's like Dakota, who else is there? There's Dakote L,

1136
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: there's l.

1137
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's others so talented back at the house,

1138
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: that idea is just like amazing.

1139
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: Who done it?

1140
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 3: Who done it? Was it a seventeen year old running

1141
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: the whole show?

1142
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: Or was it the fucking twenty five year old pimp

1143
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: who had a wade through carcasses of animals?

1144
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: See Also, it's just so uh, it's fascinating. I would

1145
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: love to know how many people were like at those

1146
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: Was it just as straight up we took her into

1147
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 2: the woods and killed her or did they go ceremonial

1148
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 2: and was it this big creepy thing? Like it just

1149
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 2: seems like now I really want to know what the

1150
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: actual story is. Was it like were they taking advantage

1151
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: of Satanic panic and like putting it all under that?

1152
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1153
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: Like what the hell?

1154
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine someone really believing in Satan Like

1155
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: he never.

1156
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 3: Oh wow, hello, he never answered to the Catholic Church.

1157
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: I was going to be like, it's not like you

1158
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: can believe in it because he talks to you, But

1159
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, that's what people think about Jesus,

1160
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: thank God.

1161
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 3: I mean in a lot of things. Yeah, horns, blogs, blog. Look,

1162
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 3: he's starting to me.

1163
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: Well, the happy ending of the story is that he

1164
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: has a blog.

1165
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: And anyone can, and that blogs forgive you no matter

1166
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 2: what you do.

1167
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 1: Listen, go to blog spot to start yourself at your.

1168
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 2: What about angel Fire? Isn't that one that wasn't that

1169
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 2: a blog spot?

1170
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 3: What is Saven?

1171
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: You say, what angel Fire? Yeah?

1172
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 3: It was.

1173
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 4: It was a blog website. It's it's shut down, but

1174
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 4: it's all archives so you can still find your old

1175
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 4: But what is websites?

1176
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: Just like.

1177
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 4: It's a hosting program? Yeah, I like blogspot.

1178
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: That was the first My friend had a blog where

1179
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: she would just rant and talk full shit constantly and

1180
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: it was like bloody bla angelfire dot net or whatever

1181
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: it was. And I just thought it was I was

1182
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: so new and that it was the beginning of the

1183
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: Internet that I thought angel Fire was like where all

1184
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: blogs took place. I was like, oh, angel Fire, that's amazing.

1185
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I

1186
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: was like, oh, there's blogs other places like Yeah, I

1187
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: just thought it was that one spot.

1188
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and then blog spot became that one spot

1189
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: m hmmm.

1190
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 3: They got a little smarter.

1191
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: They don't.

1192
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 3: They went secular with it.

1193
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: They knew it don't involve angel in this or fire

1194
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: sounds satanic.

1195
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that whole concept is a bit much. It's a

1196
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: bit beyond, Like, we.

1197
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: Don't even believe that, and we believe in blogs. They're

1198
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: not true. What if blogs were emit, like blogs were

1199
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: like Unicorn's Like, I don't think they ever existed, and

1200
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: someone's like, yes they did, there's proof, I could print

1201
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: it up.

1202
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, right, yeah, I believe in blogs.

1203
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: Oh my wog is fucking gone from the Internet, so

1204
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: nobody tried to find it.

1205
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 3: By the way, Oh you look, you erased it.

1206
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: I took it down because I read it recently and

1207
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. I was like, oh

1208
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: my Gokay.

1209
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 2: Was it just like your diary, like your daily thoughts? No,

1210
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 2: it was just give me more, just give me a

1211
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 2: taste of.

1212
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: It, okay. I like, I would write really lovely, flourishy,

1213
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: gorgeous tales of you know, my life. But then one

1214
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: of them was about my car getting broken into. Oh

1215
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: were you there, Steven, Now, yeah, it was just.

1216
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 3: Like it was just such to you there in the

1217
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 3: nineties with me. Stephen.

1218
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Stephen, you were there. I met like I did

1219
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: a reading recently on read one because it was so stupid,

1220
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: but oh oh yeah. It was like a twenty seven

1221
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: year old girl who wanted to sound fucking what's the

1222
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: word worldly?

1223
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, stop at twenty seven year olds.

1224
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's what twenty seven year olds were

1225
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 3: built for.

1226
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: That's what the blogs were built for. Yeah, twenty seven

1227
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: year old. Yeah, amazing, Enough about me talk about murder?

1228
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 3: Had I wish to? I guess? I bet you.

1229
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: That's such a frustrating part of being a part of

1230
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: the legal system is so much lying.

1231
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: Oh you just are.

1232
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: Like, we had this old thing set up, and you

1233
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 2: promised me it was the truth.

1234
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 3: Now we're going with this story.

1235
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah and no, and then four years later you're like,

1236
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: I lied about all of it.

1237
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 3: It's like like.

1238
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: We went off of that entire thing. That would be

1239
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: great if like people stop lying.

1240
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: I mean, if they found like the same way as

1241
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 2: you can get like a fingerprint analyzed, you can somehow

1242
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: accurately get a lie detector, like a lie detective doctor test.

1243
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 3: It's not those don't work, though they're fifty to fifty.

1244
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: I wonder if people if they came up with, isn't

1245
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: there a truth? Isn't there like a truth serum powder.

1246
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: Well, they can inject a truth storum, but doesn't necessarily

1247
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 2: mean you will tell the truth.

1248
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 3: And if you're know a lot about that, what's that?

1249
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about.

1250
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 2: That About truth serum. I think it's like a it

1251
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 2: chills you out.

1252
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 3: You know what? Why am I talking right now? If

1253
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 3: you can tell us doctors and chemists, I'll tell you.

1254
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I want to say it's sodium pentathal,

1255
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: but I think that's poison.

1256
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: No, no, I think it is a sodium pedothol. Did

1257
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 2: I get this, Stephen? Do you think it is?

1258
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so impressed with myself. I got that.

1259
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 3: I think you're right too. Yeah, I'm fucking so.

1260
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 2: I think there are people who can beat it, who

1261
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 2: can game it when they know.

1262
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 3: It's going to happen.

1263
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: Well, when you don't care about anything, you can't do it.

1264
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: You can trick it.

1265
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: Also, I think it's I think the reason they don't

1266
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: use it more is because they can't just shoot up

1267
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: whoever they want.

1268
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was going to say that it

1269
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: must be against rights somehow.

1270
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 3: I bet it is.

1271
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't stop lying.

1272
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll start with me.

1273
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: What is it, Stephen?

1274
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 4: Sodium pentathol is used to induce comas anesthesia. Yeah, euthanasia.

1275
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: Oh nope, that's the euthanasia.

1276
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 3: That's oh nope, truth truth serum. There we go.

1277
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 4: It's still used in some places as a truth serum

1278
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 4: to weaken the resolve of a subject and make them

1279
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: more compliant to pressure.

1280
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: It's called wine exactly.

1281
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: I was going to say to light does six wine coolers?

1282
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Watermelon Wave, Bartles and James strawberry strawberry. What what's

1283
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: that one wine that's like strawberry flavored wine?

1284
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 3: What is it called?

1285
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: It's like super cheap and shitty blue Nune. No, I

1286
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: don't know what that is, but.

1287
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 3: You'd know it. Uh Thunderbird night train, night train.

1288
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: No, someone's yelling it at home? Yeah, anyways, someone's drinking

1289
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: it at home.

1290
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 3: Who gotta hope?

1291
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: You gotta hope? Okay, we're back. Are there updates for

1292
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: this one? There are, actually so. Carl Drew continues to

1293
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: serve his life sentence in prison. He recently won a

1294
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: court case granting him access to previously protected documents that

1295
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: could prove his innocence, and then Robin Murphy was granted

1296
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: parole in twenty twenty four. The Massachusetts Parole Board based

1297
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: its decision on several factors. One is that Robin seemed

1298
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: to have addressed her own trauma and addiction issues, and

1299
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: she seems more able to have empathy. She also has

1300
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: earned her bachelor's degree from Boston University, and so the

1301
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: board noted her work inside the prison in a training

1302
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: program matching dog and military veterans. The board said, quote,

1303
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: she acknowledged that due to her pattern of dishonesty, many

1304
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: people have been harmed. She's willing to try and rectify

1305
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: the harm she has caused. End quote. So I mean,

1306
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: if that's the point of our prison system, then it

1307
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: seems like she met those she did in mands. Yeah.

1308
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: Also, she was young on drugs, you know, in with

1309
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 2: a crowd or whatever. And I think what we've learned

1310
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: over the years is like that's definitely a thing you

1311
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: do not see the true sociopaths or psychopaths do. They

1312
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 2: do not admit that they did anything wrong right the victim.

1313
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: It's always sad for them. It's they never do this.

1314
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 2: So it's like, that's all anyone's looking.

1315
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: For, Yeah, rehabilitation, And I mean, you know, I just

1316
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: can't ever not think about the fact that I hung

1317
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: out with the fucked up people back then when I

1318
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: was a thirteen year old, and to think that the

1319
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: mistakes I made back then, Yeah, not that i'd ever

1320
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 1: I did anything. I mean I did illegal shit. For sure,

1321
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: I didn't hurt anyone, but I definitely fucking did illegal shit.

1322
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: And so the fact, you know, it's just I'm just

1323
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: always so grateful that I got out of that, and

1324
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: so for her to have a chance to do that

1325
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: too is important, I think.

1326
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 3: Yes, agreed.

1327
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well Karen, let's get into your wild

1328
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: story about the Berkeley hostage crisis.

1329
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 2: Okay, mine this week I picked because I like doing

1330
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: these ones where I can remember hearing about it or

1331
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 2: some kind of love those right, some kind.

1332
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 3: Of thing where you're like, wait, what was that?

1333
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I get to talk about this.

1334
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 3: So I had this.

1335
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 2: I can't remember whatever I was watching or thinking of,

1336
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: but it was like, because this isn't there There was

1337
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 2: a murder in it, but it was more of a

1338
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 2: hostage crisis.

1339
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 3: So this is.

1340
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: Scare the shit out of me.

1341
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 2: The man's name was Murderdad dash D and it was

1342
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety Berkeley stitch crisis.

1343
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 3: Do you remember this? No, nineteen ninety you were blogging? No,

1344
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 3: you were too young. Back then? Were you?

1345
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: Was just called diary ing?

1346
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 3: Then? Back then?

1347
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 4: Were you?

1348
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: I was ten in nineteen ninety, so no, I haven't

1349
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: even know how to write yet.

1350
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 3: Can you write?

1351
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: At ten?

1352
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 3: You could write cursive? I bet?

1353
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet you could write a nice paragraph about

1354
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 2: like what I did this summer, Yes, with some good

1355
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 2: ten dollar words in it.

1356
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1357
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 3: Okay, So I was twenty so I was in San Francisco.

1358
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh so you were fucking there for it?

1359
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 3: You know? Sorry, I was. I was in Sacramento.

1360
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: It could have been you.

1361
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 3: I move.

1362
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I moved to San Francisco when I was twenty two.

1363
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 2: So I was Sacramento. So I wasn't like right across

1364
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 2: the bay, but we were close by. And it was

1365
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: on the news. This is this was so crazy because

1366
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 2: they when this happened and the news found out about it,

1367
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 2: they went live.

1368
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 3: On the news. Okay, so this is basically what happened.

1369
01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:00,919
Speaker 2: It's September twenty sixth, nineteen ninety just before midnight, and

1370
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 2: a twenty nine year old Iranian male named Murdaud Dashti

1371
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 2: and his friend decided to go to Henry's Public House,

1372
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: which is in the lobby of the Durant Hotel one

1373
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 2: block south of the Berkeley Campus in Berkeley, California, across

1374
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:24,959
Speaker 2: right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. So uh,

1375
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 2: Murdaud Dashti had told his friend he had he went

1376
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: to Berkeley.

1377
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 3: Four years earlier.

1378
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: He had graduated with an engineering degree, and he didn't

1379
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: get a job like he had. He came from Iran

1380
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: and obviously was super smart, got into Berkeley.

1381
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 3: Which no one I knew he do no.

1382
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 2: And got this engineering degree, but then when he got out,

1383
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 2: couldn't get a job. That was like he didn't get

1384
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 2: an engineering job. Or he had these dreams of like

1385
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: now in America and now I'm gonna get a really awesome,

1386
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: high paying job.

1387
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 3: So we couldn't get it, and he was he started doing.

1388
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 2: Handyman work and it was, you know, very much beneath him,

1389
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 2: but he needed the money.

1390
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 3: He had also.

1391
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 2: Gotten married, I think it was the year before he graduated,

1392
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 2: and his marriage like kind of crumbled and the more

1393
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: he wasn't finding a job, and the less money they

1394
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 2: had and stuff, the more controlling he was with his wife.

1395
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 3: And his wife was like, see you later.

1396
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: Money issues, Yes, bad news.

1397
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: So he ends up in this apartment alone and he

1398
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: was later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic.

1399
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: He was a paranoid skits wow. So he had started

1400
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 2: to hear voices, but he wasn't. He didn't deal with

1401
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 2: it in any way. He just was listening to the voices,

1402
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: fighting with the voices. He was living in that world.

1403
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: But he didn't ever go get any kind of mental

1404
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 2: help or medical help for that issue. That night, on

1405
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 2: December twenty sixth, he tells his friend he wants to

1406
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 2: go to a bar where a lot of blonde white

1407
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 2: women will be and so his friend decides that they

1408
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: should go to Henry's.

1409
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 3: And Henry's was this.

1410
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 2: It was really close to the campus, so a lot

1411
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 2: of shorty girls and frat boys would go there and

1412
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 2: it was just like this super popular bar.

1413
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 1: Sounds like a blast.

1414
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh sorry.

1415
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 2: A lot of this I got from a show that

1416
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: I found online. That's an ID channel show called Deadly Demands,

1417
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 2: season one, episode five, and they had actually in this show.

1418
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 3: A lot of this live footage that was from KPIX.

1419
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: Now.

1420
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember Channel five in San

1421
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 2: Francisco now I was in the Bay area. KPIX is

1422
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: the local news, local TV channel. You know their jingle

1423
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 2: kpix No I could. Channel two is the one we

1424
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: watched the most, which was KTVU. They had a whole

1425
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 2: song about yeah, there was only one who was there,

1426
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 2: like slow, isn't that good?

1427
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: There was only one two.

1428
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 3: I was only one to fucking love that.

1429
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 2: And in the late seventies early eighties, when the San

1430
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 2: Francisco Giants only ever lost, like they never won a

1431
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,719
Speaker 2: game ever, there was a like a fifteen second promo

1432
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 2: that they would run during the cartoon time and.

1433
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 3: Like after school, like four o'clock or whatever.

1434
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 2: And it was just like the most janky early eighties

1435
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 2: graphics of a baseball player swinging about, but the as

1436
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 2: he swung, it was just like flash animation where the

1437
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:36,879
Speaker 2: colors changed into like a like a brown and yellow rainbow,

1438
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 2: so it'd be he would swing and it'd be like

1439
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: brown light, brown, tan, yellow orange or whatever, and the

1440
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 2: song that played underneath it was come.

1441
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 3: On, Giants, hang in there.

1442
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, how fucking pathetic is that?

1443
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 1: That's our new thing. Come when we're feeling low, hang

1444
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: in there.

1445
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 3: Come on, Jorjia, hang in there. My sister and I

1446
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 3: used to say it to each other all the time.

1447
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 3: I love it.

1448
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: I love it. One because it's fucking hilarious and horrible.

1449
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: Two because you're singing. You have a great voice, so

1450
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: it's like it's good, like if I tried it wouldn't

1451
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: be good. Well, also it's it's so tacky, it's so ugly.

1452
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: Everything's brown.

1453
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 3: It doesn't it's brown, and it's the kind of thing.

1454
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Like you would never see it these days because it's like, no,

1455
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 2: don't don't cheer on your losing team by basically going

1456
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 2: don't quit baseball.

1457
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: Yeah you'll get there.

1458
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, don't walk up the field, don't walk it up.

1459
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: So an, I told you it's gonna be terrible.

1460
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 2: Come Okay, So props to k TVU, but this was

1461
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 2: kpi S totally different channel. So they're in Henry's they

1462
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: call Last Call. They're the Dosh and his friend are

1463
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 2: sitting in the corner and at one point his friend

1464
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 2: goes and goes up to get drinks and Dosh goes,

1465
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on a Second'm gonna out to the car.

1466
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: He goes out to the car, and he comes back

1467
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 2: with a briefcase. Yeah, and.

1468
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 3: So last call has called.

1469
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 2: Everyone's kind of like they're like wrapping it up. And

1470
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 2: at one point Dash opens the briefcase, pulls out a

1471
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: semi automatic and just starts shooting it into the.

1472
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 3: Air in the bar.

1473
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 2: In the bar, So there are sixty seven people in

1474
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 2: the bar, holy shit at the time, and half of

1475
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: them run out. Then I think they said like eight

1476
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 2: people were shot in that time. So and then everybody

1477
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 2: else hits the floor and kind of when this dust settles,

1478
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 2: he says, he yells to everybody, if you're hurt, you

1479
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 2: can leave right now.

1480
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 3: So weird. Yes, So there are like one woman in

1481
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 3: this and deadly, deadly demands.

1482
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 2: She she got shot eight times and she didn't even

1483
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: know it.

1484
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: She was just like.

1485
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 3: Sitting there, what the fuck?

1486
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,759
Speaker 2: Yes, And because it's an automatic weapon, because we fucking

1487
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 2: need automatic weapons in this.

1488
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 3: Country so fucking badly assault rifles.

1489
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: Everyone had one and.

1490
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 2: This guy had many. He Yeah, she got shot eight

1491
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 2: times and didn't She said, I felt uncomfortable and then

1492
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 2: I touched my side and I was bleeding.

1493
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 3: So she got up and walked out. What the fuck?

1494
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 2: She's totally probably just making me feel much better though

1495
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 2: about what the.

1496
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: Pain that you? Probably? I always like think about the

1497
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: pain when you get shot.

1498
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you I think you go into shock like

1499
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 2: she would go into shock because she didn't get shot. Yeah,

1500
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 2: in any she got, luckily was like her side.

1501
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 3: So she got to leave.

1502
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: And then there was a guy that he shot a

1503
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 2: guy right in the chest. A student and two other

1504
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 2: guys went, can we please bring him outside because he

1505
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 2: can't go up outside by himself, And she said, you can,

1506
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 2: but you have to come back.

1507
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 3: So they all go outside. I seriously doubt they came back.

1508
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 3: Can you imagine, You're like, I'm a man of my word.

1509
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 3: I'm here, I'm here a.

1510
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 2: Gun So okay. So there's a cop, a patrol officer

1511
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 2: that's walking up and down the street and he's like

1512
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: half a block away.

1513
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,440
Speaker 3: He hears gunshocks.

1514
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 2: He thinks it might be firecrackers, but he goes to

1515
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: look and see what it is, and as he gets

1516
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 2: closer he sees the people running out of the pub.

1517
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 2: He realizes then it's gun fire and immediately calls it in.

1518
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 2: So so there's cops and ambulances and everybody on the

1519
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 2: scene really quickly, because luckily someone was right there like

1520
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 2: the second it went off. So there's they have the

1521
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 2: bar surrounded, you know, very quickly. The swat team is

1522
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 2: on site. And so this is the amazing part. He

1523
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 2: so the hurt people leave, he's got everybody else, and

1524
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 2: he immediately makes everyone that's still in the bar line

1525
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 2: up against the windows that face the There's like a

1526
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 2: wall of windows that face the street, and he's like,

1527
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 2: everybody line up against the windows. Therefore they're blocking the

1528
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,799
Speaker 2: windows from the cops can't see and they can't shoot

1529
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 2: into the windows.

1530
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 1: How's scary for those people? Yeah, where's his friend right now?

1531
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: His friend ran out?

1532
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and his friend ran out random The cops said,

1533
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 2: his name is this He has these guns, like I

1534
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 2: didn't know, and he lives up the street. So then

1535
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 2: immediately the cops get a search warrant and they go

1536
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,719
Speaker 2: into his apartment and they start discovering all the things

1537
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 2: that they eventually find out about him, which is he

1538
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 2: went to Berkeley. He's basically now living almost in Squalor, divorced,

1539
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 2: and he's written all.

1540
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 3: These letters to the police, to the government, basically saying,

1541
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 3: you owe me sixteen trillion dollars for the psychic services

1542
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 3: that I've been providing for you. So he believes that

1543
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 3: the voices.

1544
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: In his head are the American government telling him what

1545
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 2: to do, and he has been listening and obeying and

1546
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 2: now believes he should be compensated for what he's been doing.

1547
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 3: And it's so insane.

1548
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 2: In the show, they show two hours before he takes

1549
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 2: this bar hostage, he had called nine to one one

1550
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: in Berkeley and he's talking and this woman is so

1551
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 2: calm and trying to get the information out of him.

1552
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,759
Speaker 2: But he's basically saying, in a very calm and rational

1553
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 2: sounding voice, he's saying, Okay, so I just need the

1554
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 2: police and the government to pay me the money they

1555
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 2: owe me.

1556
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 3: God, because they have been using.

1557
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: You know, my telepathy, they've been using it, and they

1558
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 2: said they were going to pay me, and I need

1559
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 2: that money.

1560
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: Should you listen to it?

1561
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 3: Yes?

1562
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 2: I didn't really. I thought it was a reenactment, and

1563
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 2: then realized.

1564
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: Because everyone's so chill, Yes they were.

1565
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 2: The woman was so professional and he was so calm

1566
01:15:58,840 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 2: that it was not a reenact.

1567
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 3: Wow, And it was.

1568
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,520
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing where if I was a dispatcher,

1569
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have stayed on the

1570
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 2: phone with him as long as she did, because it

1571
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,679
Speaker 2: sounded like bullshit.

1572
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 3: It went from reasonable to.

1573
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 2: Super crazy, where you'd go, oh, this is a person

1574
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 2: playing a prank. It doesn't sound like a crazy person

1575
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 2: at all. He sounds very reasonable and like he just

1576
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 2: needs his money. And what he starts telling her is

1577
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 2: he needs money because he just got this letter saying

1578
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:25,639
Speaker 2: he has to go to jail.

1579
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 3: And what had happened. What happened was he.

1580
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 2: I think it was like three weeks before. I can't

1581
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 2: remember the timeline exactly, but he because he had didn't

1582
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 2: have a job, because his wife left him, because he

1583
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 2: didn't have any money, he had taken his car, driven

1584
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 2: into San Francisco and just smashed a bunch of really

1585
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: nice cars with his car, and he got arrested for it.

1586
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 3: He got caught after having done it.

1587
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 2: He basically probably went to like Pacific Heights or knob

1588
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:56,879
Speaker 2: Hill or some were crazy fancy and just like smashed

1589
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 2: all the Mercedes, like parked on one street.

1590
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: Who wouldn't want to bet it felt pretty great.

1591
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 2: As revenge but then here's the problem. They arrest him,

1592
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 2: They bring him into the police station and they do

1593
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 2: a strip search on him, and for him already being

1594
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 2: in the mental state that he's in and also being

1595
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:20,839
Speaker 2: a practicing Muslim, where being naked, like, they made him

1596
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 2: strip naked and it was incredibly obviously. I mean, it'd

1597
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 2: be demeaning to anybody, it doesn't matter what your religion is.

1598
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: But the way they were saying it in this story,

1599
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 2: it made it down like it was in a religious way,

1600
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:34,879
Speaker 2: not very inappropriate.

1601
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 1: For humiliar someone. Yeah. Probably now there's like, yeah, I

1602
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: don't know.

1603
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 3: So so that was part of it.

1604
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 2: So when one of his first demands, so what he

1605
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 2: does is, once he gets everyone lined up against the

1606
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 2: wall he first asked, he makes all the blonde pretty.

1607
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 2: He says, all the pretty blonde women in the bar

1608
01:17:56,040 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 2: come and stand in the center. So they do, and

1609
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 2: he makes them strip. And then there's no, it's not

1610
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 2: in any of the like articles I found.

1611
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 3: It wasn't.

1612
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 2: It was definitely not in Dudley Demand. But I heard

1613
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 2: about this like it was things that people weren't that they.

1614
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 3: Weren't putting in the newspaper.

1615
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 2: But basically, after making these women strip he made the

1616
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 2: men in the bar basically sexually assault the women. Oh

1617
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 2: my god, but no one has that that was in

1618
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,839
Speaker 2: this website. I found that it's like a police report

1619
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 2: thing that they do not go into detail at all.

1620
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 2: And of course a lot of the men tried to

1621
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 2: block his view, so they were pretending to be doing

1622
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 2: something that they weren't actually doing. But then apparently there

1623
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 2: were things where he it was he made like them,

1624
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, but I don't know.

1625
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:49,879
Speaker 3: What it is.

1626
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 2: It's the creepiest part of the story, and it's the

1627
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 2: part that I remember people talking.

1628
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 3: About the most where it's like, what about it just

1629
01:18:59,000 --> 01:18:59,719
Speaker 3: person to person?

1630
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so who knows the urban legend element of it

1631
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 2: because it's so salacious and gross.

1632
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 3: But also the thing that.

1633
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 2: I heard was that he made somebody assault someone else

1634
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 2: with a carrot, and he talked about bugs Bunny a lot,

1635
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 2: like it was this like one of his fixations. But

1636
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 2: that to me, that sounds like it could just as

1637
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 2: much be an urban legend as it could be anything else.

1638
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 2: That's like totally sounds like crazy a carrot in barlately, right?

1639
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 2: Or did he bring it with him because it was

1640
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 2: part of his like weird plan to humiliate, Like what

1641
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:41,719
Speaker 2: would humiliate a person the most, I don't know any

1642
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 2: way you slice it.

1643
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 3: It's hideous and disgusting, but.

1644
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 2: They barely touch on it in the in the TV

1645
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 2: show version, it's just the women standing there, stripping and

1646
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 2: stripped and crying and like being humiliated that way. So

1647
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: then the next thing he says is he makes a

1648
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 2: guy take a barstool and break a window, and then

1649
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 2: the guy he sits down against the wall, is squatted down,

1650
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 2: and he just makes this guy be his voice for him.

1651
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 3: So the guy and you see this. They have news

1652
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 3: footage of this because this is they went live on

1653
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 3: kpix almost immediately. And you see the guy who's like

1654
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 3: a frat boy from the eighties.

1655
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 2: He's got like, you know, like the blonde hair parted

1656
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 2: on the side, and the white shirt or whatever. If

1657
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 2: he looks scared or is he nerves too far away

1658
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 2: to see that, you can kind of just see that.

1659
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 2: It's like an eighties outfit, and he's basically saying they

1660
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 2: want he wants, he wants. Police Chief Frank Jordan is

1661
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: the mayor of the police chief and he's the police chief.

1662
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 1: I have it here somewhere.

1663
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: Wants him to go on the news and take his

1664
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 2: pants off. He wants them to strip from the waist

1665
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:52,679
Speaker 2: down and go on live TV.

1666
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: This is some dark mirror shit.

1667
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, black mirror, black marry, this is some black marror shit.

1668
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:58,679
Speaker 3: But it's basically he.

1669
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 2: Wants he wants to human the head of the police

1670
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 2: department the way he was humiliated, and he wants it

1671
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 2: to be on TV. Which finally there's a because I'd

1672
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:10,680
Speaker 2: only ever heard of those demands that he had, and

1673
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 2: they just made it soun like can you believe that?

1674
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 2: It's like, no, there's fucking backstory to this.

1675
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: He was.

1676
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 3: There's a reason for it.

1677
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: There is a logic to it. It's kind of like

1678
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: the center of the whole fucking thing.

1679
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:22,120
Speaker 3: It really is.

1680
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 2: And also, why if you smashed your car into things,

1681
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: why did you have to get strip served?

1682
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 1: Definitely, i mean it's almost like were they yeah or

1683
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 1: were they like he's clearly on some drugs, right, but

1684
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 1: it was just schizophrenic.

1685
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 3: Or was it that time of like was it racism?

1686
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,839
Speaker 3: Was it? Was it some kind of what was happening?

1687
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:41,440
Speaker 1: Definitely?

1688
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 3: Okay, so no, it is Frank Jordan. Frank Jordan was

1689
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 3: the chief of police.

1690
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: Okay.

1691
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 2: So anyway, they're like, and they're he's basically saying, he

1692
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 2: turned on the TV in the bar and he's like,

1693
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 2: I want to see it happening. So the the it's

1694
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 2: driving the negotiators crazy because he won't get on the

1695
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 2: phone and he won't talk himself because he knows if

1696
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 2: he stands up in front of that window they're gonna

1697
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 2: shoot him. Sure, so he will only talk through a

1698
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 2: proxy or you know whatever. So they can't negotiate that way.

1699
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 3: So they keep saying, like, we need more time.

1700
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 2: He's also demanding He demanded sixteen trillion dollars. He also

1701
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 2: wanted California, Nevada, and Oregon, like because he wants He

1702
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 2: is like, this is what I'm owed. I've done all

1703
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 2: this work for you, psychically, you owe me this.

1704
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:42,639
Speaker 3: So anyway, they keep saying, we need.

1705
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 2: Time or we have to But that's when the negotiators

1706
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 2: and the police start to realize this is a very

1707
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 2: bad situation because we can't give him even some of

1708
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 2: what he needs. We can't even approximate a negotiation here,

1709
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 2: so this is going to go back.

1710
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: He may have like lied.

1711
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 2: Well, but he wanted to on the news. He wanted

1712
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 2: to see it on his TV. So he wanted to

1713
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 2: see something actually happening. And they're like, there's there will

1714
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 2: not be progress here. So that all happens, it's like

1715
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 2: basically in four hours. So it's now four am and

1716
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 2: there's no progress, and he's getting really agitated, and he

1717
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 2: finally says, I guess I'm going to have to shoot somebody,

1718
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 2: which one of you is going to be the one

1719
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 2: that gets shot?

1720
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

1721
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 2: And he's looking around this bar and it's these are

1722
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 2: college kids. They're all people that are probably the oldest

1723
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 2: twenty three, and they're looking at each other and one

1724
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 2: guy steps forward and says, you can shoot me yep.

1725
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:43,679
Speaker 2: So then he says, can I go tell them what's

1726
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 2: about to happen?

1727
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 3: And the guy says yes.

1728
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 2: So he goes to the window and says, I'm about

1729
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 2: to be I'm about to be.

1730
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm about to be executed right now.

1731
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 2: And of course the police are like they don't know

1732
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 2: what to do because they don't don't have a clear

1733
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 2: they don't have a clear in in any way.

1734
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 3: And it also was a.

1735
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 2: Part of it that the part of that was bad

1736
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:08,759
Speaker 2: was that it was in this lobby of this hotel.

1737
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 2: So there's people in the hotel. Holy shit, and it's

1738
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, but they know they're they're

1739
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 2: like time is ticking away because pretty soon.

1740
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:18,719
Speaker 3: Like by seven am.

1741
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 2: This is a college campus, they're practically on campus, so

1742
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 2: like they're not going to be able to keep people

1743
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 2: from coming closer and closer to the scene. So they

1744
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 2: know they're going to have to do something about it soon.

1745
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 2: So the guy yells ou out the window. Nobody knows

1746
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 2: what to do. This is on the news they have,

1747
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 2: like they were showing this footage. The kid walks back.

1748
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 2: He says to the guy, can I say a prayer?

1749
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 2: And the guy says yes, And so the kid says

1750
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,519
Speaker 2: a prayer. They all are just sitting there like watching.

1751
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 2: Someone will close their eyes and then the guy shoots

1752
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 2: into the ceiling. And so when they they said, these

1753
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 2: people being interviewed who went through this said like they

1754
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 2: hurt all the he says that smoke clears, and then

1755
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 2: he's still standing there.

1756
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 3: So they realized that he's just trying.

1757
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 2: He's trying to prove that he means business, but he

1758
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 2: actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody. But he

1759
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 2: feels like he's being pushed to the limit.

1760
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: That guy who volunteered, they.

1761
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:19,959
Speaker 3: Don't say his name. I couldn't find his name anywhere

1762
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 3: I know in hard Stark.

1763
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 1: What was my dad?

1764
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what is your family? My dad's like, Oh,

1765
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:27,720
Speaker 3: that was a crazy night at work.

1766
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: Well, I used to go to a co ed bars sometimes.

1767
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,519
Speaker 3: I took some night classes over at cal Yeah, that's

1768
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 3: what he would call it. Cow. So a couple of.

1769
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 2: The women in the show say that they think that

1770
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 2: actually made him feel very empowered and made him feel better.

1771
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 2: So it brought the level of tension down a little

1772
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: bit because it was like because he could choose who

1773
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 2: didn't kill him or not exactly right, and he kind

1774
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 2: of chose the better thing.

1775
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 3: But that's also from outside. The cops freak out because.

1776
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: They think someone someone yells I'm about to be executed

1777
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 2: and then there's gunshots.

1778
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: So it's so hard to hear these things and not

1779
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 1: think of like cell phones, I know, you know what

1780
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:10,639
Speaker 1: I mean, because you're like, oh, I wonder if someone

1781
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: had their cell phone open and was tine. It's like,

1782
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 1: there weren't cell.

1783
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 2: Phone nineteen ninety there was nothing. Yeah, it's so weird.

1784
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:17,759
Speaker 1: It was nothing.

1785
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 3: It was such a bizarrely.

1786
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:24,519
Speaker 2: Innocent time in some ways, and then also media wise,

1787
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 2: very stupid because the fact that the news was running

1788
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 2: it live, like people got to watch it as it

1789
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: happened was very bad.

1790
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: And then it bolstered him, probably because he was like,

1791
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: now a big deal and everyone was that's a thing

1792
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 1: of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victims' names,

1793
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 1: because that's what they want us to be famous.

1794
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 2: Exactly right, And it gave the police no control. Whatever

1795
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 2: happened and whatever the newscasters decided to talk about was.

1796
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:52,839
Speaker 3: What was happening.

1797
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 2: So when the newscasters found out that he had been

1798
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 2: diagnosed as a paranoids getsphronic, they said it he saw it.

1799
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 3: Then he got all upset, so he got his wife

1800
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 3: left him or whatever. He sees it, and then he's like,

1801
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 3: it's it's more. And it's also feeding into his paranoid,

1802
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 3: schizophrenic idea that that the government is in his head.

1803
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 3: All of the things that were happening were feeding into

1804
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 3: all his worst fears. That makes sense, and escalating it essentially.

1805
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So so they put snipers on the roof across

1806
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 2: the street and At one point, they're like, because they're

1807
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 2: trying to you know now it's uh, it's four him,

1808
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 2: it's getting you know, it's been going on. So they

1809
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 2: decide that the snipers are like, these street lights are

1810
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 2: actually compromising our position here. If he looks out the

1811
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 2: wayow he can see us sitting here, he might freak out.

1812
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 2: So somebody else decides to shoot out the street lights.

1813
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:53,520
Speaker 2: Well then he hears dosh, she hears that happening outside

1814
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 2: and gets all agitated.

1815
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 3: Jesus, that was a bad idea. Yeah. Uh, that's when

1816
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:01,719
Speaker 3: they said.

1817
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 2: His mood starts to swing from he's like rage, screaming,

1818
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 2: going crazy, to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself for

1819
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 2: like long periods of time. At five am, he tells

1820
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:22,719
Speaker 2: the bartender give everybody four beers. Everybody drank and have fun.

1821
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 2: And one of the women being interviewed says, that's when

1822
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 2: we knew he was going to kill all of us,

1823
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 2: because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us.

1824
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 2: When it happened, he felt like that it was clear

1825
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 2: that the plan was like, have your last four beers,

1826
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 2: have your final raw party, and that's when.

1827
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:43,679
Speaker 3: It got super scary.

1828
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 2: Oh, in that, so he has a briefcase just for

1829
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: the details. In the briefcase, he has a large caliber revolver,

1830
01:28:53,920 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 2: two handguns, a fully automatic pistol. Oh sorry, no, the

1831
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,600
Speaker 2: handguns were one was fully automatic and one was semi automatic,

1832
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 2: and then he has ammunition for all three. So he's

1833
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 2: just got It's like there, he's not going anywhere. He's

1834
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:15,919
Speaker 2: got a briefcase full of stuff. As they're watching the news,

1835
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:16,720
Speaker 2: the news.

1836
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 3: Reports that the boy that he shot in the chest

1837
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 3: died at the hospital. Oh no, and dash, she starts

1838
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 3: going crazy, going, I didn't do it.

1839
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 2: I did not kill him. They're lying there, this is

1840
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 2: the government. They're lying. I didn't do it. And he

1841
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 2: loses his shit. Oh my god, which I think is

1842
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 2: another really sad part about it, because it's like he

1843
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 2: went in there.

1844
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:40,760
Speaker 3: He had this big plan.

1845
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 2: He was gonna he wanted to defile America's citizens. He

1846
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 2: wanted to do to America what America was doing to him.

1847
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 2: But he actually didn't, like actually, deep down that he

1848
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 2: wasn't a killer.

1849
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,719
Speaker 1: Really he wanted to do that, but he didn't. Doesn't

1850
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 1: sound like because letting all the people who got hurt

1851
01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 1: go is just such a yeah, go get you know.

1852
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:04,640
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's not what like a you know, psychopath

1853
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 2: would do or a person that's like, I've got this

1854
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 2: plan and here's my perfect revenge. It's like a person

1855
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 2: with a serious mental issue who's trying to fix the

1856
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 2: complete abject.

1857
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 3: Desperation of his own life. It's horrifying.

1858
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 2: So anyway, so okay, So he tells one of the

1859
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,599
Speaker 2: female hostages to go into to see if she can

1860
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 2: go find go into the kitchen, which is now dark,

1861
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 2: and find a light switch, like he wanted to go

1862
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 2: into the back room for some reason. Well, she goes

1863
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 2: in there and then sees that there's an exit giver

1864
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 2: and she gets the fuck out, and then she goes

1865
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 2: to the police and like reports everything that's going on

1866
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:56,640
Speaker 2: and updates everything. And then another at around four a m.

1867
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 2: Another female hostage she had moved into and hid in

1868
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 2: the dining room area, and she managed to open like

1869
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:08,439
Speaker 2: an accordion style door that led to the hotel lobby,

1870
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 2: so she got out too. So then around six point

1871
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,639
Speaker 2: fifteen in the morning, the rear kitchen door opens again

1872
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 2: and a third female hostage, who was sent into the

1873
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 2: kitchen to find a light not learn his life does it.

1874
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:27,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just wants that light.

1875
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 2: So bad that he's not seeing his mistake. So she

1876
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,080
Speaker 2: gets out too, So now there's thirty three people still

1877
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 2: in the pub with him. Now the problem is again

1878
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 2: because it's the nineties, there's no cell phones or anything.

1879
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 2: The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system, so

1880
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 2: it's you know that crazy thing of like it's all

1881
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 2: the lines are connected to the lobby. So it took

1882
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 2: them that a really long time to just go straight

1883
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:56,760
Speaker 2: to the pub phone. So they finally start calling the

1884
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 2: pub phone and he won't answer it, and he's saying,

1885
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 2: they're just trying to get to they're trying to distract

1886
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,759
Speaker 2: me and just not coincidentally, but by chance or whatever,

1887
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:11,799
Speaker 2: is that the same The phone's cord couldn't stretch past

1888
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 2: the bar, so when the phone was ringing, he was like,

1889
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 2: bring it to me, but it couldn't reach where he was,

1890
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 2: so he would have had to get up and walk

1891
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 2: to the bar to answer the phone, which he believed

1892
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 2: was a trick.

1893
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 3: So he makes a guy.

1894
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:26,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just one more thing where it's like everything's

1895
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 2: feeding into his paranoia.

1896
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 3: So he makes a guy get on the.

1897
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 2: Phone and again by proxy, they're trying to negotiate, which

1898
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 2: it doesn't work, and the guy is demanding yelling stuff

1899
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:39,840
Speaker 2: and whatever, and the proxy is kind of trying to

1900
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 2: say the calm version of what the guy is saying,

1901
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 2: because he's like, I want sixteen trillion dollars from my

1902
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:48,200
Speaker 2: Mantle telepathy services.

1903
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 3: It's all that stuff.

1904
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 2: So they had basically they knew they were at an

1905
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 2: impasse because they weren'ting to be able to negotiate with him.

1906
01:32:57,240 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 2: There was no They had done everything that they could

1907
01:33:00,320 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 2: in terms of negotiation. So they knew now that the

1908
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 2: waiting strategy that part was over because they had they

1909
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:07,719
Speaker 2: had to take some kind of an action.

1910
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:09,639
Speaker 3: So they decided they were going to do.

1911
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 2: A diversion tactics, which is basically when the swap team

1912
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,599
Speaker 2: goes in in two teams and one of the team

1913
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:21,160
Speaker 2: rolls in like a flash canister, and then the other

1914
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 2: team comes in from the other side. So when they

1915
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 2: they it's seven twenty three in the morning, so they'd

1916
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 2: been there for fucking almost eight hours. They roll in

1917
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 2: the flash canister and everyone starts screaming, and the cops

1918
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 2: come in and they the second team like opens the

1919
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 2: door and they're like, get out, get out, get out.

1920
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 2: So some people are running and as he stands up

1921
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 2: from his place where he'd been, you know, like crouched

1922
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,439
Speaker 2: against the wall, and he starts moving toward a booth

1923
01:33:58,479 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 2: where he had all these people. And when the swap

1924
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 2: team saw him moving toward that group of hostages, they

1925
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 2: shot him. They they yelled for him to put the

1926
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 2: gun down or whatever, and he didn't, and he kept

1927
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,120
Speaker 2: moving and so they shot him there and then they

1928
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:14,599
Speaker 2: got the rest of the hostages out and then they

1929
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:17,760
Speaker 2: got Dashdi into an ambulance and he died on the

1930
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 2: way to the hospital. Yeah, and holy shit, essentially the

1931
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:31,880
Speaker 2: uh they the news was using high power cameras, they

1932
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:37,639
Speaker 2: were monitoring police radios, they were seeking public interviews. They

1933
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:45,719
Speaker 2: were broadcasting detailed and often uncoroborated information the entire night

1934
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 2: and never thinking about what would happen. And they actually,

1935
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it was kpi X or a

1936
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 2: different newsplace, but but they had they reported the swat

1937
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 2: team plan news and the only reason Dashitie didn't see

1938
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 2: it is because he had turned it to a different

1939
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:07,840
Speaker 2: channel at that point. Just fuck just by luck, because

1940
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 2: they were just basically it was almost like having never

1941
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 2: been in that scenario before, they were like, let's go

1942
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:13,840
Speaker 2: with the story.

1943
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 3: Let's keep it's.

1944
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 2: The reason that like, it's the reason we are now

1945
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 2: in this twenty four hour news cycle that is that

1946
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:23,759
Speaker 2: is capturing and poisoned the minds to so many people

1947
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 2: because the news does it for money and because they

1948
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 2: keep eyes on the screen. And this was almost like

1949
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 2: one of the first versions of that and the worst

1950
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 2: versions of it. Yeah, so anyway to this to date,

1951
01:35:39,160 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 2: they say this incident is one of the most significant

1952
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:50,360
Speaker 2: hostage rescue opera significant and successful hostage rescue operations in

1953
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:51,440
Speaker 2: US history.

1954
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 3: Wow.

1955
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's amazing that they were able

1956
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: to do that without anyone else getting hurt.

1957
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:00,120
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, yeah they didn't shoot anybody or no,

1958
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 2: no innocent bystanders. But it's really crazy when in that

1959
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 2: show Watching in the morning light when they when those

1960
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 2: people start finally start running and there's just swap people

1961
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 2: all the way up the street going like this and

1962
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 2: just people in.

1963
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 3: Eighties clothes fucking like booking it up the street.

1964
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 1: Have I never seen that? It's yeah, I'm just picturing

1965
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:25,599
Speaker 1: the Columbine video of the footage of the kids getting

1966
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 1: out of the Yeah, and how scary that is.

1967
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:29,559
Speaker 3: It's so so awful.

1968
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: That is so terrifying. You just got to wonder what

1969
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 1: you do in those like you personally would do in

1970
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 1: those situations. And as much as I'm like, it's the

1971
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:40,720
Speaker 1: thing of like, well, those girls escaped, but like at

1972
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 1: what costs? You know too, because you're always like, well,

1973
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 1: they're going to kill someone else because I escaped. But

1974
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 1: then they were able to probably tell police where he

1975
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:51,559
Speaker 1: was crouched and what he was doing and what.

1976
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 3: He yes, like what this situation was inside. Also, the

1977
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:55,800
Speaker 3: girl that.

1978
01:36:55,760 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 2: Got shot eight times, her friends had to stay behind,

1979
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 2: so she had all this guilt.

1980
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 3: She got to leave and her friends were there, so

1981
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:04,640
Speaker 3: she's like.

1982
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: Met you know, any times I think, yeah, you.

1983
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 2: Have shoddy times, you're free and clear, But I mean,

1984
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 2: that's what a terrible scenario to even be in totally

1985
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's just it's just such a crazy, fucking

1986
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:21,599
Speaker 2: unbelievable thing that happened.

1987
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, well fuck man, Yeah that's how everyone.

1988
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:30,639
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. Are there any updates?

1989
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:34,720
Speaker 2: Karen not really like case updates, but because of the

1990
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 2: way the media covered this story and the live updates

1991
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:41,679
Speaker 2: of the hostage situation and the updates of the special

1992
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 2: response team plan that whole mess. The hostages later sent

1993
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 2: an open letter to the media asking them to reconsider

1994
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 2: the way they report future hostage situations, saying some of

1995
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 2: the broadcasts had put their lives at risk and as

1996
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 2: a result of that, news stations changed their policies reporting

1997
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:02,160
Speaker 2: breaking news like that.

1998
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah, wow, all right, let's head back in

1999
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 1: to wrap up the show.

2000
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:11,839
Speaker 3: God bless amen.

2001
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: Okay, positive thing this week, positive thing this week. Go ahead, Okay.

2002
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:23,280
Speaker 1: Last night I got to see the movie The Big Sick,

2003
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,599
Speaker 1: which our friends Emily Gordon and Kummel nan Gianni made,

2004
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 1: and it was so lovely and such a great romantic

2005
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 1: story that isn't shitty. It's always weird because I've known

2006
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 1: Emily for a long time and she told me the

2007
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:44,719
Speaker 1: story about how it's a story of how they started

2008
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:48,160
Speaker 1: dating and she told me this and just to watch it,

2009
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 1: and Kumeo's in it and Zoe Kazan, who's so fucking talent.

2010
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: It was just please go watch it. It's just such

2011
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 1: a great movie of like, is it out? I think

2012
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 1: it's coming out this weekend or something. Okay, so yeah,

2013
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 1: but it was just so lovely and it was great

2014
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: to see, great to see that maybe really happy.

2015
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 3: Nice. Yeah cool.

2016
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:08,880
Speaker 1: What about you?

2017
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 3: Well, I guess I'll just do I can do the

2018
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 3: simple one of that.

2019
01:39:11,479 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 2: I get to write on Baskets this new season, which

2020
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 2: is very exciting.

2021
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:16,919
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

2022
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 2: I love that job and I love the people that

2023
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:24,040
Speaker 2: work there, and it's just like a very very very cool.

2024
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 3: Room to work in.

2025
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's so great.

2026
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, So that's it's even though it's hard to have.

2027
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:35,760
Speaker 2: This is now a full time job at this podcast,

2028
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:39,719
Speaker 2: so to have two is challenging. But we've done it before.

2029
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: We have Okay, we're back, Karen. How do you feel

2030
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:48,839
Speaker 1: about the fact that in this episode you're getting another

2031
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 1: writing job, You're picking up a new job.

2032
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 3: Dude.

2033
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 2: It made me laugh so hard where it's just like

2034
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 2: you were talking about it, just like they're gonna make

2035
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:00,759
Speaker 2: it work.

2036
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 3: They made it work before or whatever.

2037
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 2: We're just like, here comes the breaking point of like

2038
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:09,120
Speaker 2: I worked my whole life to be a sitcom writer.

2039
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:11,840
Speaker 2: It was finally happening, and it's like, but now you

2040
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 2: have to quit because you have this other thing that

2041
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 2: you never saw coming. Literally sitting in your Lau and like,

2042
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 2: and you can't do it.

2043
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:22,719
Speaker 1: You have to say no to one of I think

2044
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:25,320
Speaker 1: one of the best shows that's ever been on TV. Yeah,

2045
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:27,400
Speaker 1: have to say no to it. But I mean they

2046
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 1: saying grace is that it's not a permanent It wasn't

2047
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 1: a permanent job. It was you know, however many weeks, right,

2048
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 1: so that was like the way you thought you could

2049
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,360
Speaker 1: get through it. But shit, man, it was hard.

2050
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:42,120
Speaker 2: I mean it was hard for you and I everybody involved,

2051
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 2: and just exhausting in general. And then also that's why

2052
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 2: so many of my stories turned into me just retelling

2053
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:51,439
Speaker 2: I survive, because it was just this constant churn where

2054
01:40:51,439 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I can't write up a whole new

2055
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 2: story for myself this week.

2056
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 3: It's wild.

2057
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 2: I mean the shit that we actually just did, because

2058
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:01,799
Speaker 2: it in front of us and we got it done,

2059
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 2: it's pretty hilarious. It's like, looking back, it's laugh out

2060
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,599
Speaker 2: loud funny. But at the time we were just like, well,

2061
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:10,200
Speaker 2: this is just what we're gonna have to get done.

2062
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it feels like, so we're in episode seventy three,

2063
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 1: so it just kind of feels like we were just

2064
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:17,040
Speaker 1: white knuckling it and think, well, it feels like we

2065
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 1: were we were growing so much and it was so

2066
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: exciting that we were like high off of that. And

2067
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 1: then there's a point, I think around now where we

2068
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:28,719
Speaker 1: start white knuckling it, and yeah, we kind of haven't

2069
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,280
Speaker 1: stopped doing that since.

2070
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 2: No, because every I mean, I was in a version

2071
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:39,600
Speaker 2: of show business for the for fifteen years prior, and

2072
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 2: I would tell what I would tell you was what

2073
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:43,439
Speaker 2: I believed because for fifteen years, that's what I saw,

2074
01:41:43,479 --> 01:41:46,760
Speaker 2: which is like, you can't don't ever make decisions like

2075
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 2: this is going to go on forever, because when it stops,

2076
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 2: you'll be fucked. So you have to pretend like it's

2077
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:55,840
Speaker 2: going to end soon. But there's another side to that,

2078
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 2: which is like, well that isn't what's happening, and your

2079
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 2: base setting up safety nets or like acting like that

2080
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:06,360
Speaker 2: and killing yourself because you have all these safety nets. Ye,

2081
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 2: Like this success in this show is such an outlier

2082
01:42:10,760 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 2: and we're so lucky. We're so lucky that I have

2083
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 2: never believed in it, and I refuse to believe in it.

2084
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 1: Well, Vince and I were in couples therapy recently and

2085
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 1: we were talking about like the tour right now, and

2086
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 1: how stressle it is and everything, and it's been ten years.

2087
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,840
Speaker 1: And then I said, you know, this podcast feels like

2088
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 1: something that happened to all of us, not that we did. Yes,

2089
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: like it wasn't happening to us, which is we're so

2090
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:43,639
Speaker 1: lucky that it shows us. But it's yeah, definitely been

2091
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:46,519
Speaker 1: like a doubles AMEX kind of thing.

2092
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:49,920
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you said doubles AMEX or I'm like,

2093
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:51,799
Speaker 2: do we get do we get double.

2094
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:55,120
Speaker 3: Points for this shit? Oh my god, we're going.

2095
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:58,440
Speaker 2: Flight to the moon because we have so many AMX points.

2096
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:03,320
Speaker 1: All right, let's uh should we close this out?

2097
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:04,519
Speaker 3: Let's close it out.

2098
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:09,120
Speaker 2: So this episode was originally titled Chill Satanist, which we love, but.

2099
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:11,360
Speaker 1: If we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it.

2100
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 3: I Love Jamestown, which is what Georgia says.

2101
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 2: Because she met Jonestown and because we're very tired, because

2102
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:20,280
Speaker 2: we're just human being.

2103
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for making an excuse, but I am so Jamestown.

2104
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:25,880
Speaker 1: I am that's me, And then we could also name

2105
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:27,640
Speaker 1: it So Many Bad Carls.

2106
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kind of crazy how many bad carls

2107
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 2: there were in this episode.

2108
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 1: Truly. Well, thanks so much for listening. To another episode

2109
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 1: of rewind. We're going to go back to twenty seventeen

2110
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 1: and let us say goodbye to you there, please, Well,

2111
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: thanks for listening you guys.

2112
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you. We hope everything it was great. I

2113
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:49,960
Speaker 3: help you.

2114
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:55,160
Speaker 1: A very happy This has been my favorite murder you guys.

2115
01:43:55,840 --> 01:43:58,719
Speaker 1: Thank you, Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

2116
01:43:58,880 --> 01:43:59,679
Speaker 3: Bye bye.

2117
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:00,679
Speaker 1: Want a cookie