WEBVTT - Permaculture 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.720 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:09.119 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.079 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:26.160 production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.520 My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.080 me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer Paul 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.760 Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.440 and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.160 to know. Today's episode is going to be a little 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.960 bit different from our usual explorations. Were following up on 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.680 a great conversation we had in an earlier Weekly Listener 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.280 Mail segment. Here's the deal. Shout out to drs, not 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.400 the Atlanta DRS. There's a guy named DR's in Atlanta 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.840 who looks like a wizard, like straight up Gandolf. You've 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.520 got to meet him one day. He does excellent postcard art. Totally. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.400 I will introduce you guys. You may have met him already. No, 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:18.120 but but here's the deal, folks. Durs fellow conspiracy realist. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.559 The world as we know it has been around way, way, way, 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.319 way way longer than human beings, a way longer than 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.280 their ancestors. Humans are sort of a fad and kind 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.280 of disrespectful guest. That's not a hot tap, that's just 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.800 objectively true. Earth also doesn't really need people. When their 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.479 population was relatively small, they fit in the same way 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.320 another apex predator would fit into its natural biomerico system. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.600 But that has changed, and the change is only escalating 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:58.080 as humanity grows and in Biggins, it's technological pursuits. In short, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.920 civilization is reaching a bra game point where it's already 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.160 past it, which is my personal belief. So today we 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:10.760 are looking at a plan, a philosophy, a movement, a 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:15.240 set of practices that, according to its proponents, may just 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.600 help save the world or at the very least keep 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.520 it going a little while longer. And before we introduced 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.880 this plan, which we can't wait to talk about with you, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.440 we've got to we've got to give you some of 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:33.040 the ugly, ugly truths. So here are the facts. Uh, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.120 the world's in trouble. It doesn't matter who you vote for, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.800 doesn't matter if you're an atheist or you have really 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.680 you know, deeply held spiritual beliefs up the wrong river 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.960 without the right paddle. That has planet Earth and I 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.040 was hoping everything was fine. This is horrible news. Yeah, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.280 that's fine. If you look to especially the American West, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.480 if you look to Europe, the United Kingdom, areas across 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.600 the world, you can we see the effects that are 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.760 happening now, that are happening throughout the year, every year 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.520 now and ramping up in the cold weather and the 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.640 hot weather, in the dry weather, in the wet weather, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:18.040 all the weather. It's just not not doing us any favors, 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.480 um and that's likely because we we haven't really been 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.960 doing the planet many favors. No, we sure haven't. I 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.000 mean we're starting to see, you know, things like water 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.080 and natural resources become the ultimate currency. And if you look, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.720 you know, down the line to the future, it's not 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.280 that hard to imagine a world where people are literally 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.400 killing each other over these resources as they become more 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.640 and more scarce and climates become less and less habitable. Yes, 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.680 so what's happening here is this is happening in South 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.160 Asia and Southeast Asia. Throughout Indonesia. A lot of places 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.200 that were wet are dry. A lot of places that 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.520 are supposed to be dry are unsea reasonably wet. As 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.440 we record right now, Uh, there is one country that 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.040 maybe the first country ever to go completely underwater in 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.840 the modern days. That is the Maldives or Maldives. Uh. This. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.720 I've been off the grid, as you guys know, we 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.640 we don't really talk about a lot of stuff on air, 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.000 but I've been off the grid, and I've been traveling 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.760 in places where the weather is famously different from what 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.320 it's supposed to be. Right, I've been in a place, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.040 um for I've been traveling through a couple of different 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.400 places in a part of the world that's normably sort 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:38.120 of dismal and wet. And for for a while over 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.920 the summer, people loved that it wasn't raining because they 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.760 could go out and have fun with you know, their 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.440 kids and their pets and stuff. But now they're getting 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.680 to that oh snap moment where they're thinking, oh, right, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.520 the plants kind of need that water. So what we're 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:59.159 seeing our short term, short term enjoyment, long term consequences, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.200 and for while, for a while, people were fine to 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.360 ignore them. The first conspiracy, which I feel like everybody 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.360 should acknowledge these days, is that many of the scientists, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.080 the boffins, the eggheads, the academics, whatever you want, to 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:18.000 call them that said the climate was just fine or 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:23.440 downplayed the extremity of environmental degradation. They were, in fact 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.600 paid to lie. They were paid by large corporations, you know, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:33.200 chemical manufacturers, energy companies, to uh to try to politicize 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.320 the problem, to say that, you know, for some reason, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:41.040 carrying about water makes you far left or whatever, or 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.680 that if you're far right, you shouldn't care what happens 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.120 to the soil that makes the food that you and 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.080 your family eat. They were very successful about this. They 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.480 were downplaying pollution. They tried to throw a veneer of normalcy, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.560 the dog and the burning house meme vibe. They tried 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.520 to throw that over an increasingly chaotic climate. And even 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.440 they had to know, right, they had to know that 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.320 couldn't work forever. Yeah, yeah, exactly, And it didn't. Well, actually, 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.640 it's still kind of working today because a lot of 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.040 the messaging that was put out there, as you kind 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.359 of stated there been, was to muddy the message, to 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.279 muddy the science, to make sure people believed that the 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.720 science was always out on climate change. We don't know 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.520 for sure what's happening with it. We don't know for 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.200 sure if humans had anything to do with it. Uh, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.440 so let's just continue on as we're continuing on and 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.120 not think about it too much. So as of one, Um, 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.440 we've got some pretty good data from the pre industrial era, 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.039 you know, when the you know, kind of the advent 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.880 of like serious pollution. UM to the right. Now, Uh, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.400 the global temperature has in fact, this is this is 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.360 a thing. This is real. This is not some sort 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.440 of you know, uh, liberal conjecture. Um. It has increased 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.640 by about one point two degrees celsius or the much 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.680 more shocking two Americans anyway, thirty four point one six 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:10.000 degrees fahrenheit. We had to stop for a second and 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.440 do a double thick and make sure the math was right. 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.840 It is right. It doesn't seem like much, but it 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.680 also it's kind of significant. Um, it's it's a big deal. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.360 It's quite extraordinary. The world's oceans alone are actually absorbing 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:28.480 the heat equivalent of five atomic bomb drops like Hiroshima 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:33.560 atomic bombs dropping into the water every single second. Think 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.680 about the vast amount of energy one atomic bomb generates. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.520 This is five of those dropping into the water every 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:47.720 single second, just from atmospheric conditions, just from like ambient heat. Yeah, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.240 it's just the heat. It's it's getting hot and not 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:57.400 not in a cool like party on the weekend. Way, well, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.240 you might it is getting hot in here. You might 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.320 have to as a matter of survival. But well, we'll 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.880 talk about wet bulk We'll talk about wet bulb temperature. Uh. 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.160 We we talked about that in the previous episode, So 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.440 check that out if you want to be depressed. So, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.160 these conspiracies are real. Don't ever forget. This goes deeper 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.640 than a government's debt. Right. So to add to this, 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.640 a lot of modern industries are only exacerbating the problem, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.760 and they are doing so knowingly. Logging is a huge 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.120 issue in some of the world's last large green spaces. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.280 If wet bulb temperature doesn't depress you enough, if you 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.560 still feel like you have a spark of optimism or 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.400 you're having fun one day, then check out what's happening 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.320 to the Amazon. Uh. There's deforestation of course in other places, 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:51.040 massive massive irrigation projects, pollution, industrial by products. I just 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.360 read recently that if you get uh, if you get 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.880 chicken eggs from a city like you know your friends 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.040 have a chicken cooper or something, they're likely to have 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.920 more lead than eggs out in the countryside. It's saying 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.960 everybody plastics and everything. Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, mono agriculture, 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.040 you know, like the way people grow bananas, the reason 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.360 the first commercial banana crop went extinct. Ak the reason 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.000 banana candy doesn't taste like the bananas you get now, Uh, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:27.760 mono agriculture robs ecosystems of their natural checks and balances. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.760 These are very old systems that have existed long before 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.280 humans started fussing around under the hood. They make these 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:42.360 feedback loops where farmers and agribusiness rely increasingly on artificial 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.920 solutions to problems that uh, they themselves have arguably created. 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:53.680 You know, like thinking neo nicotinoids and pesticides, extinctions running rampant. 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.280 You know. Um, this the generations listening now maybe some 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.160 of the last generations to be around when certain large 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.680 wild animals were still wild. And on this side of 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.880 the ground, there's a ripple effect every time a species dies. Look, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:15.840 the game can't go on forever unless we find some solutions. 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:17.800 And this is where you know, this is the light 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.760 at the end of the tunnel, hopefully for the true believers, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.319 right they like, we know all these solutions, reduce, reuse, recycle. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.880 What are the other ones? Oh? Oh, paper straws. I 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.800 sound like a jerk. Sorry, stop drop and roll. Yeah, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:38.280 oh no, that's different. Yeah, yes, Conserve your energy, use 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.520 your water, use your heat, use everything. Like, just cut 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.960 back as much as you can. Everybody. The thing is 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.040 everybody doesn't always do it. Yeah. Maybe don't water your 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:55.480 golf course, you know, quite as exorbitantly. Oh you have to, 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:57.960 and so how else? How else will we have golf courses? 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.600 Hey don't. It's a sunk cost, all right. I bought 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.439 the Altman farm and the golf course, and one day 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.679 I'm gonna learn to play golf. So I need that 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.840 thing ready, I need I need the water. It's a 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.640 sunk cost. It's it's a it's a sunk put baby, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.480 that's what it is. Get on that green. It's not 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.080 green without water. Otherwise it's the brown. That's not cool. 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.640 Nobody wants to put on the brown. Has there ever 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.480 been an exclusive high level astro turf to golf course, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.520 like the whole thing is like a mini putt put course. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.559 Surely they've made leaps and bounds in astro turf technology, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.960 like they could do that it's just a flex to 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.839 not do that. I don't know the answer. I've got 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.199 top golf in places like that, you know, like for 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.000 driving ranges that's probably not real grass. I'm sure it's 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.440 more like those are like the batting cages of golf. 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.880 But yeah, it's absurd how many, how much resources and 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.360 energy and you know, landscaping, hand water get literally poured 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:02.199 into what amounts to like a a playground for the wealthy. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.360 It's funny you mentioned this because there is a controversy. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.560 There has been a push to have AstroTurf or artificial 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:14.760 turf golf courses. But athletes, golfers, you know, and uh, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:19.160 a lot of the golfing enthusiasts are a bit traditionalists 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.719 in their view. They prefer the natural grass, even though 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.000 it could be used to you know, grow crops stuff 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.400 like that, but when not to yuck someone's you just 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.360 realized there are there. We are of the mind on 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:37.240 this show that there's almost always a way around a problem. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.559 There is a solution, and the three of us have 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:44.040 been in crazy situations where we found weird innovations of 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.480 our own um, which might be a story for a 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.520 live show. All the weird stuff we've gotten into. But 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.920 but yeah, there's a lot of um what people call 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:59.839 misallocation of things right, miss prioritization of wants and knee. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.000 There are golf courses of plenty that do suck up 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.679 a lot of water, while there are people dying from 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.920 lack of potable water, lack of clean water. And there 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.760 are these corporate initiatives that come around that purport to 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:23.120 address these concerns right, reduce, reuse, recycle. Often they put 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:27.440 the burden of the action on the consumer rather than 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:32.840 taking accountability as a as the business creating the problem. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.320 Right now, it's not our fault that we've made so 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:41.280 many microplastics and seated them in the ocean. It's your fault, 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.600 you dick, because you drink with plastic straws. That's and 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.400 that's the implication. It's not our fault that there's teflon 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.720 falling from the skies and nargica. Why did you buy 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.000 all those pots and pans? Come on, but those other 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.240 straws get all soggy like a pasta noodle. They're weird, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.199 you know, give me my plastic straw. I'm kidding. They've 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.520 made leaps and bounds once again in non plastic straw technology. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.480 I keep using this term, and I'm going to keep 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.520 using it. Yeah, I'm gonna You know what I love 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.480 about this one is I can see just the way 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.560 that automobile companies vilify pedestrians back in the day by 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.440 creating the crime of jaywalking. I could see I could 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.680 see some of the big plastic movers of vilifying people 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.480 by creating the crime of slow drinking. The problem is 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.760 not the paper straw. It's all these slow drinkers. You 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:40.800 know what I mean, slow drink Call this number. You 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.440 could be part of the problem. Report your loved ones 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.400 for slow drinking. Um. Have you seen, you know at 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.440 bars where you get those really tiny straws and like 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.720 it takes like four of them to amount to a 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:57.200 regular straw. Those are kind of designed for slow drinking, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.960 if you think about it. Okay, so that's the real problem. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.080 We're done with this episode. Then it's slow drinking, guys, 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.320 drink faster. Drinking faster is the new drink responsibly that's 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.200 not gonna come back to buy us. Well, Okay, here's 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.640 the thing. There's so many solutions, many of which are 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.960 proposed in good faith, and a lot of them address 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.280 one aspect of this bigger Gordian knot of what the 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:26.360 hell do people do to continue living on the planet. Um, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.280 this is where our story. This is where our story 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.680 comes in because there's one solution that we had talked about, 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.360 an approach you could say, of philosophy. It's made a 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.560 lot of waves in recent decades. It comes to us 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.680 courtesy of our friends down Under. It comes from Australia 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:47.120 and Tasmania. It's something known as perma culture, a portmanteau 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:52.400 of permanent agriculture and permanent culture. And perman culture is 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.680 going to be kind of confusing to people, I think 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.240 when you first are introduced to it, because it's sort 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.680 of a gastalt whole system them approach, it's a I 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.840 don't know. Um, let's see. It's it's the idea that 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:12.720 you can create a means of integrating human activity with 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:18.320 natural surroundings, creating a highly efficient, self sustaining ecosystem, so 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:23.440 that humans instead of trying to impose change on an ecosystem. Right, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.400 we only grow bananas here now, even though it used 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.640 to be a very bio diverse jungle. Instead, you say, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.760 we're going to fit ourselves into this system. We're going 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:39.840 to become a helpful part of it pretty you know, beautiful, right, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.160 circle of life and so on. Yeah, well even even 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.920 down to the concept of we don't need grass lawns 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.240 anymore anywhere, we can use the like you said, the 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.600 ecosystem that existed and wherever that place is, and just 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.440 make sure that ecosystem thrives and you can make it beautiful. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.840 You can grow things on there, like the flowers you 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.720 want or the food even that you could eat. Uh, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.280 it's it's a really interesting philosophy. Uh that, like you said, 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.920 been really just focused on using what's there and not 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.840 destroying the living system that already flourishes. Is this like 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.119 a biodome type situation? Like are we talking greenhouse like 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.199 hot houses and things like that? Are not at all? No? Okay, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.240 maybe I'm not quite getting my head around, Like where 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.120 do you well, yeah, a little bit right, like where 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.960 I mean, if you don't have a lawn, what are 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.520 you using and using like planter boxes or you're like 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.440 like raised beds, you know, Like what are we talking 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:43.800 modifying the it's modifying the existing like plants that grow 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.280 in that area to however you want them, Like you 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.320 could you can change what grows where kind of but 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.480 it's also working. Well, let's get into it. Well, that's yeah, 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.359 here's what I mean. But when I say when I 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.520 say it's kind of like a greenhouse, it's like Earth 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:03.200 as a big greenhouse. And there are series of interrelated 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.440 sections or neighborhoods we could call them. Uh that that 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.840 sort of edge into one another and overlap edges are 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:16.000 big in the concept of of permaculture. Uh, it's this 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:21.400 idea also has some surprising overlap with some precepts carved 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.760 in the recently demolished Georgia guidestones, the notably the idea 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.000 that humanity, one way or another, should strive to exist 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.560 in balance with nature. That gave a lot of folks 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.919 who are worried about population control and eugenics a slight 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.520 eye twitch. And you should have a slight eye twitch, folks. Uh, 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.639 this at heart sounds like a noble aspiration, but we 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.120 have to ask why has it encountered so much criticism 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.520 over the years, over the decades. And pause for word 0:18:51.560 --> 0:19:01.440 from our sponsor, and then we'll dive in. Here's where 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:06.440 it gets crazy. Okay, we we we said some feel 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.360 good stuff, right we we we talked about the problems. 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:15.240 I think we were pretty realistic. So how okay, background, 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.119 what what is Perman culture? I spent a ton of 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.840 time reading about this and people agree vaguely but not 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:28.000 specifically all the time. It's it's a philosophical thing, right Ben, 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:33.080 So much like a philosophy class. It's like, well, nobody really, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.760 you know, has nailed this concept fully down, but we 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.280 got a vague idea, we got a thought cloud around it. Well, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.119 I mean, well, let's start with the originator perhaps of 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.360 the thought cloud. It's it's a dude, um from Tasmania. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.440 You sort of mentioned that at the top of the show, Ben, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.439 that we we're borrowing a lot of these ideas from 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.399 our brethren in Australia and Tasmania. This guy's name is 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:02.879 Bill Mollison, was born in nineteen and a little fishing 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.920 village called Stanley in Tasmania. Uh it sounds very quaint. 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.520 I love a quaint fishing village named Stanley. Like villages 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.840 named after people always, you know, I like cats named 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.320 after people. Why not villages? Um? Mollison he left school 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.959 early in his life and he took to you know, 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.000 to becoming a tradesman. He worked for a number of 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.119 varying jobs before he you know, found his like true calling. 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.120 He was a baker, He worked in a mill. He 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.240 was a seaman, you know, at sea. I don't know 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:36.399 if it was a captain. I guess he was just 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.679 like maybe a sailor, you know. Uh, he was a 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.800 trapper even for a little while. He fished, but exclusively 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.359 for sharks. That's that's tough. Are we sure he wasn't 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.080 just jumping into the oceans with a knife to fight 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.680 the sharks, like, are we sure? Or or jumping over 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.840 a sharks on a jet ski like like in the 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:00.879 Happy Days, uh series finale? Or maybe he was getting 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.840 fish for the sharks. You know, he might have just 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.480 been like the moving moving the prey for the sharks. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.960 You know, his his demo might have been there's like 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.199 customers might have been great whites. Sharks are apparently not 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.600 super good eating because they're just so sinewy. They're like 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.639 one big muscle. Yeah, they're grilled all dark meat and 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.800 kind of game. Was my understanding. A lot of omnivo 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.000 omnivorous animals don't taste especially great. That's the reason why 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.480 in English people say to eat crow as mean as 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.800 you know, you have to like, uh, you have to 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.160 have some humble pie or whatever. You have to eat 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.159 a trash bird. And you guys know, I love Corvitt's. 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:48.359 They're very, very intelligent, but they taste like garbage because 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:56.000 they eat garbage. Same with foxes. Catfish, Yeah, sage in garbage. Yeah, exactly, 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.200 just a catfish though, But you gotta fry the hell 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.400 out of it, right, what's is that like? It takes. Yeah, 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.639 you gotta get them small. The bigger they are, at 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.040 least in my experience, the less the tasty they are. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.520 But let us know your mileage, baby arey. So yeah, 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.080 you describe it so perfectly. He is a jack of 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.400 all trades for a while is Mollison And eventually he 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:24.679 goes to a place called the Wildlife Survey Section of 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.480 Australia's Science Research Organization something called c s I r 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:34.399 OH and then he spends time at the Inland Fisheries 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:39.399 Commission of Tasmania. So he's there for more than a 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.760 decade and this leads him to kind of a bit 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.760 of a walk about. I guess it's a reflective period 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.200 in his life. He spends a lot of time, mostly 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:56.720 solitary in the wilderness of Tasmania. He learns about the forest, 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:01.600 he has intimate understanding of the coastal ecosyst stims and 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.399 his life continues, but this leaves a huge mark on him. 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.359 In nineteen sixty eight, he becomes a tutor at the 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:12.600 University of Tasmania and then later he becomes the senior 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:17.520 lecturer in environmental psychology, which sounds pretty interesting if you 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.040 read that on a syllabus. Right. Uh. While he's while 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.440 he's teaching there, Yeah, while he's teaching there, he meets 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.960 up with his padawan, the guy who will become his 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.959 co creator of perma culture. His name is Dave. David 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:38.200 Holmgren is a student at the Tasmanian College of Advanced Education, 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.080 and together part in the pun they will sow the 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:46.280 seeds of perma culture. Because they start asking themselves all 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.720 these questions. They say, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.440 hold up, pump the brakes, scratch the record. Why does 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:58.760 humanity impose all these short term goals on fragile ecosystems? 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:04.240 Why don't we just crib the research that the natural 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.879 world has already done for millions of years. It's created 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.919 these entire systems why don't we just work with what 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.960 already works, makes sustainable ways of creating food with long term, 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:19.920 less damaging solutions. Why don't we work within the system, 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:22.919 right and only change it a little when we need to. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.120 This this really hit me, you guys, because as we see, 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:31.919 we see that mimic mimicry of the natural world is 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:38.560 increasingly becoming the forefront of technology in multiple fields. At 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:43.679 some point in any given number of disciplines, especially in engineering, 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:49.359 some bright mind says, hang on, the solution to this 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:54.280 already exists in nature, right. There's a reason eggs are spherical, 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.440 or you know, uh, there's a reason that hexagons are 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.840 in beehives, stuff like that. So why don't we, Like 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:07.720 spider silk is already a better ingredient for bulletproof vest 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:10.400 why don't we just do that? So that's what they're doing. 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:12.480 They're taking this idea and they're saying, why don't we 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:16.040 just do the stuff that was already well figured out 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:19.119 before humans came on the scene. Exactly. It's amazing And 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.320 that's not the only thing, right, So they've got nature 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:25.000 systems and how they work already, why don't we use those? 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.320 And why don't we look to the past a little 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.840 bit to see how humanity has been manipulating the earth 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.320 before we came up with all this industrialization, with all 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.080 these machines that have to do one thing for one 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:40.320 crop and then get as many, you know, many pieces 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.280 of corn out of the earth as we possibly can 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.720 every year. So these guys ordered their names Molison and Holmgren, 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:51.040 they're like, they're the modern movement guys, right, But if 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.320