1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Moscow Police are investigating a homicide on King Rhode. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: Cause and manner of death was homicide by stabbing. 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 3: This is terrible. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 4: It's a blood death. 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: This is the Idaho Massacre. A production of KT Studios 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio, episode three In Search of a Connection. I'm 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KT Studios. With Stephanie Leidecker, 8 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, and Connor Powell. An unthinkable nightmare comes to 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: life in the small college community of Moscow. Four students 10 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: at the University of Idaho butcher to death in the 11 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: early hours of Sunday, November thirteenth. The gruesome murders spark 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: a multi state investigation stretch from Washington to Idaho to Pennsylvania. 13 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: The forty eight day investigation ends it on the other 14 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: side of the country with the stunning arrest of a 15 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: PhD criminal student and would be law enforcement officer named 16 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Brian Coberger. Moscow Police James fry On the arrest. 17 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: These tragic murders took four young, vibrant lives from our community. 18 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 5: These murders have. 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: Shaken our community and no arrest will ever bring back 20 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 2: these young students. However, we do believe justice will be 21 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: found through the criminal process. 22 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 6: Was there some sort of connection. 23 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: I think that it is likely that there's a relationship 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,639 Speaker 1: between these four students and this person. From the first 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: hours of the investigation, law enforcement officials described the murders 26 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: of Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Eitha Chapin 27 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: as a targeted attack, but police offered no other information. 28 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Shannon Gray, an attorney representing the family of soon to 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: graduate senior Killie Gonsalvez, said publicly that none of the 30 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: victims knew Brian Coberger, leaving the question how is this 31 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: a targeted attack? Here's Stephanie Leideker, Jeff Shane and producer 32 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: Connor Powell. 33 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 3: I think when we all picture a murder of this size, 34 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: we picture a masked killer like you see in the movies, 35 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: But in reality, stranger homicide is extremely rare. This changes 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: from year to year, but typically around fifty percent of 37 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: all murder victims are killed by someone they know. So 38 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: it begs the question, how did the accuse, Brian Coburger 39 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: know the victims. 40 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 4: It does feel like there has to be some connective 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 4: tissue in some way either maybe they met in passing 42 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 4: or maybe they had some sort of class together. 43 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 7: Social media allows people to know people but not actually 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 7: know them, that they can follow them, they can essentially 45 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 7: digital stock them. So he might have known them and 46 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 7: they might never have known him. 47 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 3: And that's actually a parasocial relationship, which is this one 48 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: way relationship we have with it used to be people 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 3: on TV, in the movies, but now with the social media, 50 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 3: you really can intimately know someone without ever having met them. 51 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 4: And you can also see the layout to their home. 52 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 4: We're on social media and we're doing it in our 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 4: houses or outside of our houses, and that can be 54 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 4: a real tell for anybody who's a predator. 55 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 3: As we know, the victims were frequently posting on social media, 56 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: which oftentimes showed the layout of their home. 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: The six bedroom house on King Road is tucked away 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: in a residential area of Moscow. It's surrounded by an 59 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: eighteen hole golf course, the University of Idaho's fraternity row, 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: and other residential homes. It sits about two miles from 61 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: the large commercial shopping area where the Target and Walmart 62 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: are and about two miles from the main downtown bar area. 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 5: About four years before the crime, I was in Moscow, Idaho, 64 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 5: for homecoming. I was campaigning for Congress in the first 65 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 5: District of Idaho, so participated in the homecoming parade, passing 66 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 5: out literature, shaking a few hands, waving at the crowd. 67 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 5: At the conclusion of the parade, one of my good 68 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 5: supporters who was also in town, a friend of mine 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 5: and a law office client of mine, had a son 70 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 5: who was one of the rental residents leasing that particular property. 71 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: That's David H. Leroy speaking to producer Jeff Shane. Leroy 72 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: is a former local prosecutor turned defense attorney. He served 73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: as Idaho's Attorney General. He's also a graduate of the 74 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: University of Idaho College of Law and has been in 75 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: the house where the murders happened. 76 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 5: So we went over to the house, ended up on 77 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 5: the second floor in a living room area, and chatted 78 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 5: with his son and the other two three residents who 79 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 5: were students at the university at that time living in 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 5: the house where the crime would be committed. About four 81 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 5: years later. 82 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: What was it like being in there? 83 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 5: A gray, three story building set in a relatively hard 84 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 5: to get to backwater street up against a hill, so 85 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 5: that you have a couple of different levels of entry 86 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 5: in the house. To go into the lowest level is 87 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 5: basically almost a daylight type basement, and then you must 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 5: walk up a stairway to get to the second floor, 89 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 5: where bedrooms and the living room area occupy the front 90 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 5: of the house. Upstairs, there are additional bedrooms. We didn't 91 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 5: visit those, but it's a three story set against the 92 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 5: hill structure that has multiple entrance levels and multiple exit levels. 93 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 3: You were a student there, so you've I imagined lived 94 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: in different places. It was this house typical of where 95 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: a student might live in Moscow. 96 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 5: This house was probably built in the nineteen seventies, no 97 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 5: later than the eighties, in an area that's immediately adjacent 98 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 5: to campus, literally the campus boundary and the fraternities and 99 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 5: sororities that ring the center of the campus against a 100 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 5: large hill which is topped by the University of Idaho's 101 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 5: water tower with a big emblematic eye on the exterior 102 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 5: of the structure. Is no more than a quarter of 103 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 5: a mile off campus. It's against a hill with single 104 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 5: family residences and other student population apartment buildings, and it's 105 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 5: perhaps no more than half a mile from the center 106 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 5: of the campus. Two thirds of a mile from the 107 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 5: student union itself. 108 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: When they weren't sure who did it, they thought this 109 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: couldn't be that random because this house was kind of 110 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: tucked away. It was a little bit on It's not 111 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: like a cul de sac, but it's a little bit 112 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,239 Speaker 3: of a dead end, like it's on a major thoroughfare. 113 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: What's your take on that. 114 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 5: Now, there's no immediate arterial approximate to this house. You 115 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 5: must turn off an arterial and then off a sub arterial, 116 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 5: and then off that sub arterial to go up a 117 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 5: hillside almost to a dead end about one hundred or 118 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty five yards before you get to 119 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 5: this house. To get to this structure where the killings 120 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 5: took place, you have to work at it, and you 121 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 5: don't immediately pass by it on your way to anything else. 122 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: So it stands to reason that whomever did this did 123 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 3: not just stumble upon the house. 124 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 5: A lot of the issues that was of great concern 125 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 5: semantically as these investigations were developing was whether these children 126 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 5: and whether this house was quote targeted in some way. 127 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: The initial observations of the law enforcement officials the prosecutor 128 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 5: included with it there was some kind of targeting, and 129 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 5: it was a lot logical conclusion, given where this event 130 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 5: happened and the fact that so many students were involved 131 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 5: as victims. But it is some place that you need 132 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 5: to work to get to and would not necessarily happen 133 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 5: upon even if you were looking for a random place 134 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 5: to commit a crime. 135 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: Here again, Stephanie, Jeff and Connor. 136 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 7: I want to Google Maps. I just want to map 137 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 7: out where this house on King Road was. And it's 138 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 7: really not a part of the city of Moscow where 139 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 7: people would just sort of end up. It's not near 140 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 7: the main bar area, it's not near the commercial shopping area. 141 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 7: It is a really secluded, little sort of neighborhood. A 142 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 7: lot of people live there, but it's not the type 143 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 7: of place that you would just sort of drive. 144 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 3: By, and that's been confirmed by a few people that 145 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: we've talked to who have actually been to the house, 146 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: that it's a truck to get there and you wouldn't 147 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: just stumble upon it. 148 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 7: I think one of the things that is sort of 149 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 7: interesting about the house is it really was considered a 150 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 7: party house, which really isn't all that surprising given the 151 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 7: fact that there's a bunch of upperclassmen living in there. 152 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 7: Some seniors soon to be graduating seniors. It's close to 153 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 7: Toney Row, And I think the real question is is like, 154 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 7: is there any possibility that Brian Coburger would have ever 155 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 7: have been in that house for some other reason? 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 4: And if Brian Coburger, you know, is a PhD student, 157 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 4: whether he was invited or not, maybe he could have 158 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 4: sort of slipped in the back door and without being 159 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: spotted or would that be unusual. 160 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 7: We know that the house had parties where even the 161 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 7: girls weren't always at the parties. I mean there's a 162 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 7: police record of police showing up and none of the 163 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 7: residents of the house or even there, and they're talking 164 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 7: to some people who don't live there, and the police 165 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 7: are like, well, you got a noise complaint. We really 166 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 7: need to talk to somebody who's on the lease. And 167 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 7: so people are always coming and going from this house. 168 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 7: But still, how do you get from Pullman as a 169 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 7: PhD criminology student too, as you said, somebody who's kind 170 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 7: of creepy. How do you end up at an undergraduate 171 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 7: house in a totally different university. It just doesn't seem 172 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 7: likely that Brian would have ended up there unless somebody 173 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 7: invited them. 174 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: If the house on CA Road was targeted, as police say, 175 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: was it because of who lived there? Here's Jeff Shane 176 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: speaking with reporter and Jeannette Levy from the Law and 177 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: Crime Network. 178 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 3: Does it matter how he knew them? 179 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 8: I think it becomes relevant if he knew them, because 180 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 8: it's just another dot to connect. I mean, if he 181 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 8: didn't know them, if he actually had never interacted with 182 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 8: any of them, that's so terrifying. If he's indeed the 183 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 8: guilty party, what in the heck is going on? Like 184 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 8: why did you kill these people? 185 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 5: You know? 186 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 8: It just I think it's more of like an understanding 187 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 8: it does. It's an explanation, not an excuse, Like, but 188 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 8: I think you have to look at had he ever 189 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 8: interacted with them? 190 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: Because he's like, I don't. 191 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: Know who these girls are. 192 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 8: I don't know who these people are, and I have 193 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 8: no clue what's going on. Why would I have anything 194 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 8: to do with these kids? They're way younger than I was. 195 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 8: I'm a twenty eight year old PhD student. I mean, 196 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 8: I think it connects a dot if you if he 197 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 8: had indeed interacted with any of them. 198 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: Brian Kobak moved to Pullman, Washington to begin his PhD 199 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: studies in June of twenty twenty two. According to a 200 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: police have of David, cell phone data showed he was 201 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: in the area of the home on King Road at 202 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: least twelve times between August twenty twenty two and the murders. 203 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: But did Brian Coburger know or have a connection to 204 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: any of the victims? Here again, Jeff Connor and Stephanie by. 205 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 3: All accounts, Ethan being at the house was kind of 206 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 3: just chance. Yes, he stayed with Xana a lot, but 207 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 3: Zana would also stay at his fraternity house, So based 208 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: on what we know now, it's stands to reason he 209 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 3: didn't know Ethan would even be home that night. 210 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 7: Evan's Instagram profile was set to private, but it seems 211 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 7: unlikely that Ethan was the target given the fact that 212 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 7: his social media presence was pretty limited and there's no 213 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 7: connection between Ethan and Brian Koberger. 214 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 4: What a horrifying thought too, that this could have been 215 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 4: a missed night for him, you know, the sliding. 216 00:11:59,480 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: Door of that. 217 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 4: What was it about that particular day in the alleged 218 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 4: assailant's life that said, today's the day. It just makes 219 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 4: you think if he had gotten a flat tire, or 220 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 4: if he had caught a cold, or if the light 221 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 4: was red and not green, something maybe could have shaken 222 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: him out of this morning, and who knows, maybe four 223 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: people could still be alive. You know, this is the 224 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 4: stuff nightmares. 225 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: Are made of. All three of the female victims, twenty 226 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: one year old Kaylee Gonsalves, twenty year old Xana Kernodle, 227 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: and twenty one year old Madison Mogan, had public Instagram accounts, 228 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: and all three roommates regularly posted to social media, including TikTok. 229 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't appear that Madison, Kaylee, Zena, or Ethannu Cooburger. 230 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: None of them followed anyone by the name of Brian 231 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: Coberger on social media. However, Kaylee Consalvas's father, Steve, has 232 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: said there are connections between his daughter and Coburger, but 233 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: he has not commented on the possible connection. 234 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: With so little information coming out at the beginning, there 235 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: was so much speculation about the victims and the accused 236 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: and their movements around the murders. As we know, Maddie 237 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: and Kaylee spent their final night at the Corner Club, 238 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: which is a popular bar in downtown Moscow, and people 239 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 3: had speculated that maybe Coberger had been there, he was 240 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 3: a regular, that he met them there, he saw them there. 241 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: There's been nothing to say that that's true. It's possible. 242 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not addressed at all in the probable cause affidavit. 243 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 7: It's not addressed by investigators in anywhere. It's just pure speculation. Sure, 244 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 7: anything is possible, but there's nothing linking Brian Koberger to 245 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 7: the Corner Club, either that night or previous nights. And 246 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 7: you know, that's one of those sort of rumors that 247 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 7: I think has kind of been shot down, But it 248 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 7: doesn't seem that that is the connection between Brian Coberger 249 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 7: and the four victims. 250 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 4: There was also a rumor or there were reports that 251 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 4: Xana and Maddie, as we know, were both waitresses at 252 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 4: the same restaurant, and one of the unidentified workers from 253 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 4: that restaurant claimed that they remembered Coburger attending there because 254 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 4: he had a very strict diet and had very specific 255 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 4: diet requests, but that ended up becoming unfounded as well. 256 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Reporter an Jeannette Levy also went to the Mad Greek 257 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: restaurant and spoke to people there. 258 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 9: I have been to the Mad Greek, and nobody at 259 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 9: the Mad Greek that I spoke to recalled ever seeing 260 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 9: him there, and they knew the young woman who worked there, 261 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 9: you know, Sannah worked there and Maddie worked there. So 262 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 9: the people I talked with at the Mad Greek did 263 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 9: not recall ever seeing him there. 264 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: The owner of the Mad Greek, Jackie Fisher, also issued 265 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: a statement that said there is no evidence that Coburger 266 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: ate at the restaurant. Let's stop here for a break, 267 00:14:52,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Online in media, speculation 268 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: about a possible connection between Coburger and the victims has 269 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: largely focused on some type of social media connection. Did 270 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: Brian Coburger digitally stock Xana, Maddie and Kaylee again Stephanie, 271 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: jeff and Connor? 272 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 4: According to People magazine, Coburger followed Maddie, Kaylee and Xana 273 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 4: before the account was actually deleted, meaning his account was deleted. 274 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 4: There's no mention of the other two roommates. Is that 275 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 4: enough of a connection? And again, is this just rumor? 276 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 4: The outlet also reported that Coburger message at least one 277 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 4: of the victims. They didn't respond, but then apparently Brian 278 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 4: Coburger reached out again and again and again and again 279 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: and again. Is that Stocker mentality or is that just 280 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 4: somebody on social media who wants an answer on something 281 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 4: and now that's getting blown into something larger. 282 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: I actually looked for myself in terms of did Brian 283 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: follow them, because, as we know, the victims' profiles were 284 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 3: mostly public, and if you search through Kayley's followers, for example, 285 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: there are Brian Coberger profiles who follow her, but now 286 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: there's a bunch of them. So it's clear that there 287 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 3: are people out in the world who are making accounts 288 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: with Brian Coberger's names following these victims, which that level 289 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 3: of depravity is disgusting, But to me, that indicates that 290 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: we as the public don't know for sure if you 291 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: followed them. Of course, officials might know something we don't 292 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 3: because what People magazine reports that two weeks prior to 293 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: the murders in late October, he allegedly sent a message 294 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 3: to one of the victims, basically just saying, hey, how 295 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 3: are you, but he didn't get a response, and kept 296 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: repeatedly messaging them over and over again. 297 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 4: What is a person supposed to do? Somebody reaches out 298 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 4: to them on social media or dms them and they 299 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 4: don't want to engage, so they just ignore. But yet 300 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 4: that ignoring somehow gets potentially obsessive for the person who's 301 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 4: not getting a response. There's no right or wrong answer. 302 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 7: It seems very plausible, and it makes sense that Brian 303 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 7: Coberger was probably using social media to contact him. I 304 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 7: mean that just as we're trying to find an answer 305 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 7: for what's the connection, that seems like very likely, right, 306 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 7: But you know, an unnamed source in People magazine like, 307 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 7: how much do you want to actually grab onto that 308 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 7: and say yeah, this is this is concrete. It still 309 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 7: feels like until we get it from investigators, it still 310 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 7: feels like just a theory and just an idea as 311 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 7: opposed to something that you can be like, oh yeah, 312 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 7: that definitely happened. That is for a fact, you know 313 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 7: the connection. 314 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: Here's Jeff Shane speaking with Antonette Levy from the Law 315 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: on Crime Network. 316 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: Knowing him, though, was such a loose term. I mean, 317 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 3: she could have matched with him on Tender and said, oh, 318 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,239 Speaker 3: no thanks, I don't want to go out with you, 319 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: and he latched onto that and she wouldn't have known him. 320 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 8: You're right, And I was actually told that some of 321 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 8: the people on Tender. I was told that some of 322 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 8: the kids in that area use tender for networking and 323 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 8: stuff like that, not just for dating. But I don't 324 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 8: know whether that's true or not. Maybe there could have 325 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 8: been some type of tender connection, I don't know, But 326 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 8: as far as them interacting and you know, hey we 327 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 8: went on a date or we're friends or what have you, 328 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 8: I'm not aware of any connection like that. And frankly, 329 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 8: I think the fact that he went to Maddie's room first, 330 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 8: that to me says a lot. So was she the target? 331 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 8: Did he somehow interact with her at some point in time? 332 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 8: I don't think we know these things. 333 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: Could Brian Kobecker have seen one of the women online 334 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: and tried to start a relationship, only to be ignored 335 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: and rejected. 336 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 10: They don't consider murdering women a hate crime, but I 337 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 10: think a lot of these cases are pretty much fall 338 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,239 Speaker 10: into that sort of category where you have white men 339 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 10: who are rejected or you know, not they don't get 340 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 10: what they want when they want it, and that's why 341 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 10: they do it, and it's just such a like this 342 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 10: inceell mentality, like where they're just so like women should 343 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 10: just be like, you know, falling out their news to 344 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 10: me and that's not the way the world works. And 345 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 10: then they're just so bitter about it that you know 346 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 10: everything is working out for them that suddenly the world's 347 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 10: against them, and you know they're a victim, and it's, 348 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 10: you know, poor me. 349 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: Chris Bargo is a reporter with the TV magazine show 350 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: Inside Edition and has been covering the Idaho murders. He 351 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: spoke to Stephanie and Jeff about Brian Coberger's dating life 352 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: and what he found out about Coburger's often creepy interactions 353 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: with women. Have you heard that he was an inceell? 354 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 4: Because Jeff and I were talking about that and it 355 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 4: seemed like it was a bit of a perfect example. 356 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: And in cell is an Internet term that describes young 357 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: men who are frustrated by their lack of sexual experiences. 358 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: It stands for involuntary celibate. Inceels have often been known 359 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: to lash out at women when rejected. 360 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 11: Okay, it's me the girl that went on a tender 361 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 11: date with Brian We matched on Tinder. 362 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: Chris Bargo interviewed a woman named Haley Willett, who went 363 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: on a blind date with Coberger when they were both 364 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: college students. She posted on social media about her disturbing 365 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: interaction with Coburger and his inappropriate in cell like behavior. 366 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 9: It recognized them immediately in my heart, just because I 367 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 9: couldn't believe that, like I was face to face. 368 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 3: With this guy. 369 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 10: So about two weeks after the arrest of Brian Coburger, 370 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 10: a young woman named Haley shares her story on TikTok 371 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 10: that she went on a date with Brian Coburger about 372 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 10: seven years prior. She said they matched on Tinder. They 373 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 10: talked for a few hours, they went to the movie. 374 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 10: It was pretty inconsequential. They drove back to her dormitory, 375 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 10: he parked, and she said that she thought they were 376 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 10: maybe going to talk. She then said she's gonna go 377 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 10: up to her dorm room, and that's when she said 378 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 10: he invited himself up with her. Now, Haley's very clear 379 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 10: that she didn't really feel threatened and she wasn't scared. 380 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 10: She just kind of thought he was a very clingy 381 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 10: sort of guy. So she said, because she's socially awkward, 382 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 10: she didn't really know how to say no, and she 383 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 10: let him come up, and that's when she said things 384 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 10: really started to change. She suddenly became very pushy and 385 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 10: he's kept trying to touch her, and when he would 386 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 10: touch her, she would say what are you doing and 387 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 10: he would say, I'm not touching you and then get 388 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 10: very serious about it, and she just said it got 389 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 10: to the point where she didn't know what else to do, 390 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 10: so she excused herself to go to the bathroom and 391 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 10: then made it sound like she was loudly throwing up. 392 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 10: But instead of leaving, he just stood outside the door. 393 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 10: So she just stayed in there and waited until he 394 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 10: finally left. Then when he did finally leave, he texted 395 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 10: her that she had great birthing hymns. Haley did not 396 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 10: ever speak to him again, and she really posted this 397 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 10: as just sort of a message to women saying, like, 398 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 10: you know, trust your gut. If you think something's off, 399 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 10: do the right thing and just get rid of the guy. 400 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 10: And again she said she wasn't afraid of him. She 401 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 10: just thought it was an awkward, kind of clingy guy 402 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 10: that was probably more into her than she was into. 403 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 4: Him, wildly creepy and tell us like what was her disposition? 404 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 10: Like Haley just seemed like someone who was trying to 405 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 10: make a point of sort of sending out a message 406 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 10: to other women that you know, like she said, just 407 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 10: trust your gut. She did not seem to be looking 408 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 10: for any sort of fame or notoriety. She wasn't out courting, 409 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 10: you know, interviews or anything of anything. She was turning 410 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 10: most of them down. And she, of course was dealing 411 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 10: with a horrible backlash of people trying to dos her 412 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 10: and people saying horrible things about her, wanting to know 413 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 10: what she looked like back then versus now, grossly misogynistic 414 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 10: things that happened to pretty much any woman who comes 415 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 10: forward in any of these cases, even if they're not involved. 416 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 10: It seemed like at one point she was getting more 417 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 10: hatred for this murder than the actual suspect. But she know, 418 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 10: she was very clear that something was off about him. 419 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 10: And this is one of the few people we had 420 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 10: spoken to or seen in the media at that point 421 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 10: who wasn't from his hometown that just kind of knew 422 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 10: him as a one off, And there were very few 423 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 10: people that we could get like that. 424 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 4: Just the idea that you can go in a blind 425 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 4: date with a person who you know seems nice enough 426 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 4: to your point, seems to come from a nice family, 427 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: not a bunch of zombies. You know, you check a 428 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 4: bunch of boxes. He's educated, he's on the right track, 429 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 4: and come to find out, you just dodged a real 430 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 4: bullet by locking yourself in the bathroom. 431 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: Coberger's troubled relationship with women only seemed to continue and 432 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: often even escalate during his brief time at Washington State University. 433 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: In addition to being kicked out of a bar in 434 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania for harrassing the waitresses, Coburger lost his teaching assistant 435 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: to job at WSU around the time of the murders. 436 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: Brian Cooberger's behavior at the school had been flagged by 437 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 3: Washington State University. 438 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: This is a really big deal. 439 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: The out of state tuition is fifty thousand dollars at 440 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 4: Washington State University, so his teacher's assistant job was a 441 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 4: really big deal and very important to him. This going 442 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 4: away is a real life changer for him. 443 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 7: Coburger didn't come from money, right His parents had filed 444 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 7: for bankruptcy at least once, and to have your tuition 445 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 7: paid for for a PhD program is a pretty big deal. 446 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 7: But over the course of the fall, what we really see, 447 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 7: according to all these reports is that his professors in 448 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 7: the criminology department are really troubled by his behavior, and 449 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 7: it seems like some of that behavior is how he 450 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 7: treated undergraduate female students and other women in the PhD program. 451 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,479 Speaker 4: And is that because he's just odd and awkward and 452 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 4: doesn't really have a great sense of social cues, or again, 453 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 4: is this a tale of a real psycho in training. 454 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 3: But there are some things we do know. Coburger was 455 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 3: not the most inspiring educator and had a tendency to 456 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: talk down to people, especially female students. He would grade 457 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 3: them harder and kind of be demeaning to them. 458 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 5: We know that. 459 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 3: On September twenty third, about a month into his role 460 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 3: as a TA, there was an altercation between him and 461 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 3: his professor, John Snyder, who was kind of effectively his boss. 462 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 3: Then just a couple weeks later, on October third, Coburger 463 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 3: and members of the faculty of the School of Criminology 464 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 3: had a discussion about the norms of professional behavior and 465 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 3: what to expect moving forward. 466 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean norms of professional behavior. That's the phrase 467 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 7: we've heard a lot. There's other reports that he gets 468 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 7: into a screaming match with another female student who leaves 469 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 7: the room because of the way he's talking down to her. 470 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 7: So I mean, when you talk about norms of professional behavior, 471 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 7: it just doesn't sound like he's acting in an appropriate way. 472 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 7: And I think that really is what we're talking about 473 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 7: in this entire story of Brian Coburger, is the way 474 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 7: he views women, the way he treats women, and then 475 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 7: ultimately what he does to women. 476 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 4: It's interesting because by all accounts from what we've heard, 477 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 4: he comes from a very loving family. So again, it 478 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 4: doesn't really fit the familial mo for someone who's air 479 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 4: quotes anti women. 480 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 7: No, not at all. But by the end of December, 481 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 7: by the end of the first term, Washington State University 482 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 7: pulls his TA position funding and you know, he essentially 483 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 7: has to now come up with that tuition that fifty 484 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 7: thousand dollars to cover his program. He's terminated from his 485 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 7: teaching assistant position, and so his behavior, imagine what you 486 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 7: have to do to get that teaching position just you know, 487 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 7: yanked from underneath you. 488 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 6: Someone allegedly broke into the woman's apartment and move things around. 489 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 6: Instead of calling police, the coworker called Coburger, who suggested 490 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 6: and helped her install security cameras. 491 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: Investigators are looking into if Coburger was behind the break 492 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: in and use the cameras to spy on his colleague 493 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: Stephanie and Connor. Can you imagine if this is actually accurate. 494 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: I know all of this is unanswerable in this regard, 495 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: but we want to be able to know that the 496 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: scary person is obvious and this doesn't seem obvious enough 497 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: to me. 498 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 7: It doesn't seem obvious. But there definitely is a pattern here. 499 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 7: I mean this behavior towards women, whether it was when 500 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 7: he was home in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania, in getting kicked out 501 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 7: of the bar there, or it's at WSU. You know 502 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 7: the way he's interacting with undergraduates and other PhD students. 503 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 7: Oh and by the way, he also got kicked out 504 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 7: of a program in high school as well. So when 505 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 7: you see him on paper, he looks like a really 506 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 7: well put together person. But there's a lot of these 507 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 7: stories that are coming together that really fit a pattern 508 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 7: of somebody who has real serious problems. 509 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: But the allegations of Brian Cooberger's disturbing behavior at w 510 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: AS you don't in there. Police are investigating a break 511 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: in at the home of a female coworker. Let's stop 512 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: here for another break If Brian Coburger was digitally stalking 513 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: one of the women in the house. Many have speculated 514 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: that either Kaylee Gonsalvez or Madison Mogan were his primary targets, 515 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: since they were killed first. 516 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 3: Kaylee was set to graduate early and had actually moved 517 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 3: out of the house and was only back in town 518 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 3: to visit her friends, show them her new car, and 519 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 3: just have a fun weekend, so she's not living in 520 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: this house. We know that Kaylee was sleeping in Maddie's 521 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 3: bed because we know that that's where she was found. 522 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 3: They were both found in her bed. So if Coburger 523 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 3: had been digitally stalking or physically stalking any of these girls, 524 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 3: he would have seen on social media that Kaylee was 525 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: back in town. Could this have been the reason why 526 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 3: he struck on that night in November? 527 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 7: There's multiple photos from that weekend of all of the 528 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 7: roommates together with Ethan as well, And so if you're 529 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 7: digitally stalking, you see that Kaylee's in town. The roommates 530 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 7: are essentially all back together, which is kind of what 531 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 7: they were saying was how great it is to be 532 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 7: all back together, And he might have seen that. 533 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 4: Can you imagine too? Again, maybe had they not posted 534 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: on social media the car or where they were, or 535 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 4: just how happy they were to be together. Maybe he 536 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 4: wouldn't have known. 537 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie speaking with Chris Spargo. 538 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 10: If you don't like gay people and you commit a 539 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 10: crime against a gay person, it's a hate crime. If 540 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 10: you don't like people have a certain race and you 541 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 10: commit a crime against them, it's a hate crime. But 542 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 10: what if you hate women? What if you are like 543 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 10: these young men who feel so entitled to female affection 544 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 10: and then when they don't get it, they carry out 545 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 10: these crimes. Why isn't that a hate crime? And why 546 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 10: aren't we focusing on that aspect of it, because that 547 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 10: seems to get lost in the mix. And being a 548 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 10: woman in the same age is just negotiations. Especially when 549 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 10: you're with men, it seems like you know how you're 550 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 10: going to behave, how you're going to treat them. You 551 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 10: modify your behavior based on the way they're behaving to 552 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 10: protect yourself. If you're on a date with someone for 553 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 10: the first time, if you're maybe going to go home 554 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 10: with someone, you have to sort of map out all 555 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 10: these things because you don't know the person they might 556 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 10: become once you get into their apartment, or they get 557 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 10: into your apartment. It's very, very scary, and even on 558 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 10: a more sort of casual level, if you're talking to 559 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 10: someone and you just don't want to be mean, or 560 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 10: you just don't want to be outwardly rejecting of them, 561 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 10: and you're just nice, that niceness can get misconstrued and 562 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 10: then used against you as some sort of leading them 563 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 10: on or and it's it's ridiculous. 564 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: The relationship between them, well him, I should say, and 565 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: is it Kaylee. 566 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 10: We still don't know for sure that there was any 567 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 10: specific target. It would seem, however, that early suggestions, for 568 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 10: whatever reason, have focused on Kaylee. And Kaylee was getting 569 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 10: ready to move out. She got a job in Texas, 570 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 10: she just bought a new car, She's gonna be working 571 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 10: at an IT firm. Everything is sort of coming together 572 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 10: for her, like she was beginning her life as any adult. 573 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 10: And then she went out with her friend Madison. That night, 574 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 10: Zanna had gone out with her boyfriend. The other two 575 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 10: roommates were also out. They'll get back to their apartment 576 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 10: and then where it gets crazy as the timeframe, because 577 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 10: Xanna gets his door dash delivery at four or five am, 578 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 10: and at four twenty am. The suspect car scenes speeding away. 579 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 10: How do you murder four people in fifteen minutes? 580 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: Kaylee's father, Steve Gonsalvez, has said in several interviews that 581 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: his daughter's wounds were significantly more brutal than Madison Mogen's. 582 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: I'll cut in the chase. 583 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 10: Yeah, their means of debt don't match. I don't match. 584 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: There are points of damage don't match. According to her father, 585 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: the knife wounds were deep and slashed open Kayley's liver 586 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: and lungs. This type of attack is often described as 587 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: an overkill. It's typically a sign that the victim was 588 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: an intended target, rather than someone who just happened to 589 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: be there. 590 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 3: Xana's dad told the press that when she was killed, 591 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 3: she had defensive wounds, some of which were so bad 592 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,719 Speaker 3: that her fingers were almost cut off, implying that at 593 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 3: some point Shed maybe tried to grab the knife as 594 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 3: it was being kind of lunged at her. So is 595 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: it possible that maybe she surprised Coburger after hearing the 596 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 3: other people were killed and he was on his way out. 597 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 3: We also know that Ethan's neck was slashed, which would 598 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 3: imply that he was not in bed, but maybe somewhere 599 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 3: in the room and the doorway is what we've heard. 600 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 3: So while Kaylee had the deepest wounds in comparison to Maddie, 601 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 3: without other information, it's hard to know exactly what that means. 602 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 7: Yeah, Kaylee's dad has mentioned that her wounds were way 603 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 7: deeper than the other roommates. That's obviously something that investigators 604 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 7: are looking at. 605 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 5: Well. 606 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Impossible to know yet who Brian Coberger was specifically targeting. 607 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: There are disturbing details about his final days in Pulman, 608 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: Washington before driving home. Here again is reporter Chris Bargo. 609 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 10: I personally think that he knew he was not going 610 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 10: to be able to go back because he wasn't getting 611 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 10: out of the program, but he lost his TA position. 612 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 10: And if you are a TA, you get an in 613 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 10: state tuition and they waive it for a year, and 614 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 10: there's all these sort of allowances, but if you're not 615 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 10: a TA, you have to pay full out of date. 616 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 10: And suddenly he's pay like forty thousand dollars to go 617 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 10: back in the spring. That's a huge leap for someone 618 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 10: who didn't really have a job before that. So I 619 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 10: don't know that he would be able to do it. 620 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 10: So either he moved everything out of that apartment knowing 621 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 10: he wasn't coming back, or he actually lived like that 622 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 10: where there was no shower curtain, there was you know, 623 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 10: like a stripped mattress. It was no furniture in there, 624 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 10: like one TV. And I think that when the public 625 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 10: defender came to get the stuff, she took like a TV, 626 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 10: a CD tower, and like a monitor. 627 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 4: That was it. 628 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 10: So it's just sort of a very bare bones, chilling 629 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 10: sort of setup. 630 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 631 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt 632 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Mascer is produced by Stephanie Laidecker, 633 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: Jeff Sheene, Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo, and me 634 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music 635 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massacre is a production of 636 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Kati's Studios. For more podcasts like this, 637 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 638 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. 639 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 11: I'm Diana h You may Knows, Body Moving, My Friend, 640 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 11: and I John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary 641 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 11: Don't f With Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes 642 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 11: with John, Indiana were turning our online investigative skills to 643 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 11: some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases. 644 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 3: Police say thirty three year old Bride Again was shot dead. 645 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 8: Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter. 646 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 4: Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack. 647 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: It appears to be an execution style of assassination. 648 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 4: This is very active, so we have to be careful. 649 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 4: I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies 650 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 4: in the basement. 651 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 10: I knew, I just knew the move was wrong. 652 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 3: Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one 653 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 3: young girl going missing. If you know something, heard something, 654 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 3: please it's never too late to. 655 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 7: Do the right thing. 656 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: This is True Crimes with John and Deiana, the. 657 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 3: Production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Justice is something that 658 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 3: takes different shapes or formed.