Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 1: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 1: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 2: These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Yay, that's messed up an SCVU podcast. We
Speaker 1: are out of the time machine and I am Lisa
Speaker 1: Traeger and I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: We're back. It's our first episode that we're no.
Speaker 3: This is our so this will be the second episode
Speaker 3: coming out in twenty twenty five, but it's our first
Speaker 3: time chatting in Fresh five Fresh Your.
Speaker 1: Day after January sixth, which every time I do see
Speaker 1: a new photo or video, I'm like, wow, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: That wasn't a bigger deal.
Speaker 1: Wow, they really killed some cops, Like they really like
Speaker 1: went nuts. They really were trying to murder the vice
Speaker 1: president of the United States, And it is a blip
Speaker 1: on our radar of life.
Speaker 2: It's wild.
Speaker 1: It's been a very concentrated effort to make us not
Speaker 1: remember it.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: Oppostead of nine to eleven, They're like, never remember, honey.
Speaker 2: I remember. It's great.
Speaker 1: That's not how I wanted to start our first you know,
Speaker 1: obviously No Five getting you know, we have.
Speaker 3: To have a nine to eleven reference as soon as
Speaker 3: possible on this podcast.
Speaker 2: That is what we do.
Speaker 1: Everything is our violation in time and space to where
Speaker 1: nine to eleven is and happened.
Speaker 2: I do need to start up just selfishly.
Speaker 1: I will say my Netflix comedy special Night It comes out.
Speaker 2: January twenty eighth.
Speaker 1: I need you to get on your Netflix now and
Speaker 1: there's a feature if you look me out you could
Speaker 1: do remind me. So just you remind me and then
Speaker 1: it'll pop up and you have to watch. And not
Speaker 1: to be desperate, but I do want to be in
Speaker 1: the top ten, and it is all up.
Speaker 3: To you, and I feel like the more of you
Speaker 3: that you're family and me and then it'll that'll help
Speaker 3: it get into the top ten. And just do it now,
Speaker 3: because I never remember the ship that comes out on
Speaker 3: Netflix until it's like two days later.
Speaker 2: Let's get on at the day of everybody come on.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll be out here, I'll be posting, I'll
Speaker 1: be desperate, and then I hope you like it. But
Speaker 1: I did want to say that up to I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see it.
Speaker 2: That little night Owl. You can even you should watch it.
Speaker 1: But honestly, Like even if you put it on and
Speaker 1: then leave the house, that's.
Speaker 3: Fine too, or watch it and then just let it
Speaker 3: replay after.
Speaker 2: You're on your mute. Yeah, put it in the background
Speaker 2: on MU.
Speaker 3: Let's just get some view listens, come views, Yeah, listens.
Speaker 3: I'm like so in podcasting, Yeah, I mean, we gotta.
Speaker 3: We need the TMU hive to rise up, guys. We
Speaker 3: need to get this fucking thing in the top ten.
Speaker 3: Let's go Hi murder girl. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, god. We have so much. I mean, it's it is,
Speaker 2: we have so much.
Speaker 1: I think we just have to go back and forth,
Speaker 1: like a kind of I did on Instagram mute ADHD
Speaker 1: and autism. I can't, I can't anymore. It cannot it
Speaker 1: cannot keep I don't want it. I don't want that.
Speaker 1: Leave me alone so hard.
Speaker 2: I put it on my not interested words.
Speaker 3: Jared's like, does everybody have ADHD?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it does feel like that.
Speaker 1: Like one of the poems said, you don't understand how
Speaker 1: hard Halloween is for ADHD, and someone wrote, wow, you
Speaker 1: guys can't do anything. It's like what, Oh, it's so
Speaker 1: hard to be ADHD and do a forty hour work week.
Speaker 1: You think people without ADHD love working forty hours a week,
Speaker 1: Get over yourselves. Get over yourselves. I'm done with your
Speaker 1: memes and your virtual diagnosing. I don't want it. Let
Speaker 1: me live my fucking life.
Speaker 2: Nuts. It's nuts, it is nuts.
Speaker 1: Over it's I will say, people definitely struggle with these things,
Speaker 1: but they social media of it all is insanely. Let
Speaker 1: me struggle in silence. Get it out of my head.
Speaker 1: If I have it, I I'd rather not know about it.
Speaker 1: Leave me alone. I don't need my phone telling me.
Speaker 1: Do you feel targeted? You feel like it's coming at you?
Speaker 3: I because I see it all the time, like ten
Speaker 3: signs that you have ADHD or whatever, and I'm like.
Speaker 1: It'll be like this, is it hard to get up
Speaker 1: in the morning, and it's like, yeah, yeah, that's not ADHD.
Speaker 1: It's fucking twenty five degrees, it's cold, and we're nearing fascism.
Speaker 1: Let me rest I don't have a mental disorder because
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Do you have trouble completing boring tasks? Yeah, everybody fucking does.
Speaker 2: Unless you're a socio. Unless you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: anyone who are.
Speaker 1: You're a work, You're a work bitch, you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're a yeah, corporate baddie.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but.
Speaker 3: Listen, and I say this like, I don't want anyone
Speaker 3: who has ADHD to be like, you guys are being insensitive.
Speaker 3: I take I'm on ADHD medication, so I but.
Speaker 2: I should be offended too.
Speaker 1: If you have ADHD, you should be hissed at these
Speaker 1: people well trivializing your life because or.
Speaker 3: Just turning it into like the disorder dajure, Like it
Speaker 3: just doesn't seem like it's that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, everybody's got a different experience.
Speaker 1: I just can't have it on my Instagram NonStop and
Speaker 1: I put yeah, it's like they really needed back. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. So I got the flu over Christmas.
Speaker 3: I had the flu like the fort the four days
Speaker 3: leading up to Christmas. I took the fucking COVID flu
Speaker 3: combo test and I had a big positive.
Speaker 2: Line for flu A.
Speaker 3: I don't know the fucking difference, but the sad thing
Speaker 3: is you can be positive for all flu A, flub
Speaker 3: and COVID.
Speaker 1: You can get a triple strike on that test. But
Speaker 1: I had the flu.
Speaker 3: Luckily, my in laws were in town so they could
Speaker 3: like help Jared with the kids or whatever. But I
Speaker 3: it was like that kind of thing where I was sick.
Speaker 3: And so I was watching the final season of Dairy Girls,
Speaker 3: which is like the best fucking show. I love it
Speaker 3: so much, but it was like, you can't even focus
Speaker 3: on TV. You just feel so shitty. So I was
Speaker 3: in internet whole that I can't even describe. Like I
Speaker 3: was on Instagram watching videos that were multiple parts where
Speaker 3: I'm going back into people's accounts and having to go
Speaker 3: find the second part. Like I was this one girl,
Speaker 3: I don't even follow these people, and I was just
Speaker 3: so deep in my free you paid my explore that
Speaker 3: it was. It was scary. I don't know that I've
Speaker 3: fully gotten out of it yet either. Now I'm just
Speaker 3: so used to scrolling the videos of people that I
Speaker 3: don't watch.
Speaker 2: No, it's sick. The phone is sick.
Speaker 1: Except I mean, obviously, well we can talk about Luigi. Obviously,
Speaker 1: that's but we have to keep following. We cannot let
Speaker 1: it be an internet trend. They they can kill him,
Speaker 1: They've killed Epste, They've killed other people, Like you cannot
Speaker 1: let this man be charged with terrorism, Like we cannot
Speaker 1: stop paying attention and watching and showing him that we
Speaker 1: care because the government is up to no fucking good,
Speaker 1: especially with what happened on New Year's Day with Vegas
Speaker 1: and New Orleans and the news and investigations on that
Speaker 1: seems shade. What they're trying to do to him is
Speaker 1: not whatever you know, innocent toil, proven guilty. This lawyer,
Speaker 1: bitch though we're about to watch a master like I'm
Speaker 1: excited to watch this bitch. She is a former Manhattan
Speaker 1: District attorney. She is like the Fred Thompson if we're
Speaker 1: insp you are, yes, in charge of Cabot and Novak,
Speaker 1: and now she's on the defense. And I'm I'm and
Speaker 1: I think you know everyone has these cases.
Speaker 2: You know, you've lived in New York. You're always like, oh,
Speaker 2: I remember that I followed this.
Speaker 1: I followed that I really haven't had something that's like
Speaker 1: transfixed me in this way.
Speaker 2: And yet if he wasn't hot, would we not care
Speaker 2: as much? Sure?
Speaker 1: But that we need hot people, Gloria Glorias Seinheim was hot, right,
Speaker 1: we need hot people, and then we're from sometime to
Speaker 1: lead us and he had everything to lose, but he
Speaker 1: is also innocent, and I think they're gonna prove it
Speaker 1: in court.
Speaker 2: You think he didn't do it.
Speaker 1: I think the evidence is fucked. I think the cops
Speaker 1: are lying. But also like I do have the FBI
Speaker 1: report open and I'm gonna read it. I just watched
Speaker 1: someone talk about but you don't know what's real or not,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, but it's like the timing from like
Speaker 1: the hostel to when you show up. Also like the
Speaker 1: inconsistencies of like what was left in the park, what
Speaker 1: wasn't I think there's I think they also fucked with
Speaker 1: like the ability for a fair trial with the mayor
Speaker 1: and the purple and the purple like yeah, but like
Speaker 1: so hot, like can you even imagine, Like I am
Speaker 1: just and still I don't think looks like the guy
Speaker 1: from the original photos exactly. That's what I mean, Kara,
Speaker 1: Like I I think there's more to this, And I
Speaker 1: think if Casey Anthony gets to kill her baby, we
Speaker 1: can really see what happens at this trial because it's
Speaker 1: up to the prosecution and like, I just don't know.
Speaker 2: We'll see what the evidence is and we'll see what
Speaker 2: I'm folds.
Speaker 3: Have you seen the memes that are saying that his
Speaker 3: lawyer looks like Heather Thompson from Real Housewives of New York.
Speaker 2: They're like, you're on her Halla. We need to stop
Speaker 2: and give my.
Speaker 1: Client a fair Actually I gave it a few friends
Speaker 1: this year Happy Halla Days cards with Heather Thompson. So
Speaker 1: she's been I mean, the bitch needs to talk about
Speaker 1: p Diddy. All she did was brag about working for
Speaker 1: Popcast and the fact that she is this fucking silent
Speaker 1: makes me think not good things, Like, honestly, bitch say something,
Speaker 1: but whatever, shady I don't know, but she went on folds.
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that they were matching in court, like,
Speaker 1: there's just like a lot to it. He's I'm interested.
Speaker 1: I'm interested. But we have court dates. There's like Federal
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania back in New York, so it's like January eighteenth,
Speaker 1: I think is a date February twenty something.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of dates, so we'll follow along. You're
Speaker 2: you're for like fervor for this?
Speaker 1: Uh court case is reminding me of this movie I
Speaker 1: watched over the break casey.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen it. It's called Red Rooms.
Speaker 3: It's a French it's a French Canadian so it's in Montreal.
Speaker 3: All okay, but it's like the reason I heard about
Speaker 3: it was Katya was talking about it on her podcast,
Speaker 3: and it's like it's a horror movie that is not
Speaker 3: bloody at all, like there is like no, it's my
Speaker 3: exact kind of horror movie, not gory, but like terrifying.
Speaker 3: And it's about this like girl who's like a model
Speaker 3: and a poker shark and she's obsessed with this serial
Speaker 3: killer and she goes to his trial every day. And
Speaker 3: I won't say anything else about what happens in the movie,
Speaker 3: but it's like the movie's about like like people's obsession
Speaker 3: with true crime and like you know, all this stuff,
Speaker 3: and I just thought it was like relevant to our listeners.
Speaker 3: We rented it on Amazon. I think I don't think
Speaker 3: it's available for streaming anywhere. And it is subtitles. It's
Speaker 3: mostly in French, but modern like it came out in
Speaker 3: like twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: I think I'm looking at it. I'm excited. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: This looks fucking good. And that's the thing. I do
Speaker 1: want to go to the trial. I'm not in town
Speaker 1: for a lot of them, but I'm gonna end up going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a whole thing. I mean, it
Speaker 3: was also weird in this movie. It's also crazy in
Speaker 3: this movie to see how their trials work. Like the courtroom,
Speaker 3: it could not be more opposite than like an SVU courtroom.
Speaker 3: It's like bright white, modern fluorescent lights, and people come
Speaker 3: and like sleep on the street at five am to
Speaker 3: be able to be.
Speaker 2: The people sitting in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: So that's because they I don't want to sleep on
Speaker 1: the street and I need someone to come with me.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens. But I bet you there'll be
Speaker 1: people that want to go with you. For sure, we'll
Speaker 1: see what happens. But well, on a more positive note, yeah,
Speaker 1: get positive. I did take my children. I did force
Speaker 1: my children to go see Wicked.
Speaker 3: The break got really long, and I was like, we
Speaker 3: got to go do something that kills three hours?
Speaker 1: Do you guys want to go see Wicked? And they're
Speaker 1: both like, and I was like, we're going. So I
Speaker 1: did take that and how to I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: slow start.
Speaker 3: Rosie liked it, but about I would say, at the
Speaker 3: hour forty five marks, she was like, can we go?
Speaker 3: Like it was just long for her and then Oscar
Speaker 3: was wrapped the whole time loved it. Did fall asleep
Speaker 3: in my arms for about twenty minutes. But besides the
Speaker 3: twenty minute nap, he was all in paying attention and
Speaker 3: like fully watching it, which I was shocked.
Speaker 1: But like Rosie lost interest, but then at the end
Speaker 1: for defying gravity was she like, yeah, I'm back, I'm back.
Speaker 2: He was back.
Speaker 3: Like every time she was losing interests, I go wait,
Speaker 3: there's a really good number coming up, and she'd be like, okay,
Speaker 3: you know, like I think the I'm not that girl.
Speaker 3: That's not really Rosie's wheelhouse, like about a love triangle
Speaker 3: and whatever, you know. But but like then I go,
Speaker 3: hold on, there's about to be a lion cub and
Speaker 3: she's like, okay, you know, like she was, she was
Speaker 3: focused in on some of that stuff and she liked it.
Speaker 2: I mean she didn't, but like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know if I have like a full little like wicked
Speaker 3: stand on my hands now.
Speaker 2: But they they watched, they watched.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, go ahead, No, No, all I was gonna
Speaker 5: do is another was more movie reviews, is that my
Speaker 5: son saw Mufasa with his grandmother, and my and Rosie
Speaker 5: saw Sonic three, And I've heard from both.
Speaker 3: Nicole Byer and Rosie that Sonic three is awesome, so
Speaker 3: you guys should go see it. Wait at the end
Speaker 3: of my movie corner, what were the what were the
Speaker 3: hit gifts? I guess I would say, like what did
Speaker 3: the child? Yeah, like what did the children?
Speaker 2: Like? What the gifts?
Speaker 3: Okay, so Rosie, you know they got the Amazon catalog.
Speaker 2: They circled the ten thousand things.
Speaker 3: Jared's mom picked this random thing, which is this fucking
Speaker 3: bunny that comes in like a magic hat and when
Speaker 3: you take it out, confetti explodes all over your fucking house,
Speaker 3: which is annoying. Then it has a magic wand and
Speaker 3: when you tap it on the nose, it says like
Speaker 3: abracadabra and like all this like cute magic shit. She's obsessed.
Speaker 3: They won't stop fighting over it. We have to put
Speaker 3: it away, like it's crazy. My mom got her a
Speaker 3: stuffed animal. Fox was the first thing she opened. It's
Speaker 3: it's tiny, It's like the size of the palm of
Speaker 3: your hand. She's obsessed. I got them Yodo players. That
Speaker 3: was the big gift.
Speaker 1: I got them, which are like these players that play
Speaker 1: cards of stories.
Speaker 2: But you can also listen to podcasts.
Speaker 3: You can also make your own cards, so I'm gonna
Speaker 3: have Jared like tell them this long story that they've
Speaker 3: been telling on a card so that they have it.
Speaker 3: And Rosie just like got in her bed and like
Speaker 3: listened to podcasts for like an hour by herself. I
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, this is gonna be a podcast girl.
Speaker 3: Oscar couldn't care less.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 2: I'm glad I got him one because he's gonna want
Speaker 2: it like later.
Speaker 3: And when we're like on trips and she has hers,
Speaker 3: Rosie actually stopped and opened shit and played with it.
Speaker 3: Oscar was like that wild eyed, crack addicted present opening
Speaker 3: like psychosis that kids get. Like he would just open
Speaker 3: one thing and go, oh my gosh, wow, and then
Speaker 3: go is this for me? And then open the next
Speaker 3: day Like he was so crazy. But my sister got
Speaker 3: him a bunch of Unicorn Academy stuff, which is the
Speaker 3: show he likes. I got him a Unicorn T shirt
Speaker 3: that he loves. He got they got guests who with animals,
Speaker 3: They got Mario and Luigi Checker set like they got
Speaker 3: They got so much shit. It was like really crazy,
Speaker 3: Like we always look at the tree and we're like,
Speaker 3: this is because I forgot that. Like besides us, his grandparents,
Speaker 3: their grandparents get them stuff, like my mom sent a
Speaker 3: box of shit. My sisters sent stuff. It's like they
Speaker 3: got so much crap. But anyway, they had a good Christmas.
Speaker 3: They got they got good stuff.
Speaker 2: Did you watch did you guys watch Home Alone? I
Speaker 2: mean we watched Home Alone so many times.
Speaker 1: Over Break and number two, like we're watching Escape from
Speaker 1: New York, we saw it a million times.
Speaker 2: They also watched they had.
Speaker 3: My friend Valentina has these two sons that are They
Speaker 3: lived down the street from us, and they came over.
Speaker 3: We've been doing movie nights in their bedroom so that
Speaker 3: she and I can just drink wine in the living
Speaker 3: room and it's the best. They come out a lot
Speaker 3: just to ask us questions. We put on the Mask.
Speaker 3: Jim Carrey's The Mask. Nobody walked out. Nobody came out
Speaker 3: for the entire time.
Speaker 2: Wow, entire time.
Speaker 3: And that movie has, like I think some scary parts
Speaker 3: they for like it's PG thirteen but like from ninety
Speaker 3: two or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Mask, big hit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like the Mask for Cameron Diaz is like
Speaker 1: Wolf of Wall Street from Margot Robbie. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, let's let's go career.
Speaker 3: Yeah, introducing the hottest woman you've ever seen?
Speaker 1: Well speaking of Okay, So I watched Ready or Not,
Speaker 1: which is like comedy more fun yea, yeah yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's the girl that I liked from Nine Perfect Strangers
Speaker 1: Tomorrow weaving. She looks like Margot Robbie but is like
Speaker 1: funny and awkward and silly, like no one is doing
Speaker 1: it like this bitch. I am obsessed with her, and
Speaker 1: I watched it twice in one week, Like, I like,
Speaker 1: loved this movie so much.
Speaker 2: Oh she's so pretty, yes, but.
Speaker 1: Her characters like the way she moves her face like
Speaker 1: no one is doing it like her. Oh oh she's
Speaker 1: it's special. But the movie was so fun. But listen,
Speaker 1: so my TV broke, Roku sent another one. I got
Speaker 1: in the handyman. The handyman came, like you know I had.
Speaker 1: We had to move the hanging thing. Then we take
Speaker 1: the TV out of the box, fully cracked, fully punched,
Speaker 1: cracked down the middle like fully broken again. I'm like, motherfuck.
Speaker 1: But they sent a third one and it's hanging and
Speaker 1: it's here. But I've just been so laptop that, like
Speaker 1: I really did miss the.
Speaker 3: TV, like overbreak when I really could use my TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah for like a cozy little moment. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: I always love a little drama. And I saw a Nasfaratu.
Speaker 1: Oh what do you think one of the top ten
Speaker 1: worst movies I've ever seen in my life?
Speaker 2: I hated it.
Speaker 1: Wait, casey, I haven't.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it. I
Speaker 4: can't chime in. I'm shocked to hear this, though.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I think I just hate Dracula because
Speaker 1: I love Hotel Transylvania, Like that's what it is. Weird,
Speaker 1: but like, and I like the idea of vampires, like
Speaker 1: I do. Think it's hot in some sort of way.
Speaker 1: But so then I bought Bram Stoker's Dracula at home
Speaker 1: because I'm like, Okay, I hated that, but I feel
Speaker 1: like I like Dracula. I hated I hated it this too.
Speaker 1: I go, why am I I'm like, I think I
Speaker 1: just hate this. So then I went on Dracula Dead
Speaker 1: and loving it, which is like a movie I liked
Speaker 1: as a kid, and I was like, Nope, hate this too.
Speaker 1: Hate Dracula, like that's what I've learned. Like this was
Speaker 1: the name of a vampire.
Speaker 2: Interview with a vampire.
Speaker 1: Love that, but that's not the classic story of that
Speaker 1: Kula story. It's different, it's fun. This story is like
Speaker 1: a guy needs to make a real estate deal, so
Speaker 1: he goes to Dracula's house what what and his wife
Speaker 1: knows and that's the story. So the wife is like,
Speaker 1: she's she has a weird cosmic relationship with this Dracula.
Speaker 1: She knows something bad's gonna happen. And he's like, I
Speaker 1: have to make this real estate deal. This guy is
Speaker 1: sucking on his like chat like ruining his life. It's
Speaker 1: vampire stuff. But he's like, I have to sell this property.
Speaker 1: Like I don't get it. But then once forty five
Speaker 1: minutes in, I was like, okay, I can, but I
Speaker 1: was shaking my leg I was like holding my face
Speaker 1: like I was just like.
Speaker 2: Get me out of here. Oh my gosh. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Jared saw it and he was kind of like it
Speaker 1: was fine, but he also said it was too long.
Speaker 1: I like my rats of it all, Like I like
Speaker 1: the pubonic place, like once he comes to town and
Speaker 1: there's like some real action, I like, but I just
Speaker 1: and it's all just moments of drama and mood.
Speaker 2: Without a I don't know. I can't wait for Casey
Speaker 2: to see it.
Speaker 1: I just was like, okay, I was crawling out of
Speaker 1: my skin. Yeah, everybody was like fucking talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm never gonna see it, but you know,
Speaker 1: everyone was talking about it, so I was assuming it
Speaker 1: was like this masterpiece.
Speaker 2: But and the guy is scary.
Speaker 1: He is scary looking, like I think it's a star's
Speaker 1: guard who's always you know, Oh my god, there's like
Speaker 1: a new dress, like I cannot I cannot believe any scars. Well, Casey,
Speaker 1: I hope you know you probably like no Sperratu and
Speaker 1: bram Stokers, so you're too.
Speaker 4: I have a big I love bram Stoker's Dracula. I
Speaker 4: love nos Faratu, so I really gonna love it. I'm
Speaker 4: probably gonna love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I saw there was a sign up on your boulevard
Speaker 3: in Highland Park for a nose for to look alike
Speaker 3: contest recently, and I was like, Timothy Shallamy, you've gone
Speaker 3: too far, Like we've gone too far on the lookalike contests.
Speaker 2: But I don't know, but yeah, yeah, uh oh.
Speaker 1: But they did speak Russian at one point, and so like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited. I would like to touch on something.
Speaker 1: So have you heard of the Sunny Angels? There are
Speaker 1: those like naked little babies sketch and then you've told
Speaker 1: me about them a little bit. So I you know,
Speaker 1: I frequent this toy store and I happened to be
Speaker 1: there when they had like the Christmas Dinner collection and
Speaker 1: the whole fun of the game. You know, you don't
Speaker 1: know which one you're gonna get. There's like eight options.
Speaker 1: It's like one of those kinds of toys. They're like
Speaker 1: one of eight and you try to collect them all
Speaker 1: and they all have different heads and they're all different
Speaker 1: and I go, oh my god, Christmas with my friends,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy I'm gonna buy four for Christmas, Like
Speaker 1: this will be perfect.
Speaker 2: Everyone had a different one. They're so cute.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize they have a cock and balls, they
Speaker 1: have a they have a little dick.
Speaker 2: Hold on, how do I get the dick? Look? Do
Speaker 2: you see it? Wait? What is happening? Why are they
Speaker 2: not smoothed down there?
Speaker 1: So no one was that happy, and I go, you guys, Sonny, like,
Speaker 1: excuse me. These have been sold out for months. I
Speaker 1: was there the day it came out. I happen to
Speaker 1: get you these collects, and they go, We're just really
Speaker 1: uncomfortable that they all have a dick and balls?
Speaker 2: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: And they're pantsless, their pants tand to remove their pants
Speaker 1: to find the dick and balls and like our butt
Speaker 1: is fine, like their butt is fine, like whenever a
Speaker 1: kid butt is fine. But why dick and balls? Are
Speaker 1: they all? Are they? I think they all have this?
Speaker 1: So now it's like disgusting. So now I have the like,
Speaker 1: but look at it. Look at it from the dick
Speaker 1: up like the dick up, it's adorable. It's dressed like
Speaker 1: a crocodile with like a party had on fork and
Speaker 1: super Kid ready to eat dinner for the Christmas dinner collection.
Speaker 3: This is like quite this little boy did not wear
Speaker 3: pants to the table and his dick is out and
Speaker 3: we just can't be teaching kids at that.
Speaker 1: But how is that the collector toy? I just don't
Speaker 1: understand how that's the number. A while and then what's
Speaker 1: cool now? Or I don't know if it's cool. People
Speaker 1: that are into it have a tote bag and the
Speaker 1: tote bag has like a plastic sheath on it with
Speaker 1: and they're all cut out and you can put them
Speaker 1: you can display all your sunny Angels, so you can
Speaker 1: have like twelve of them in this like plastic side
Speaker 1: thing of this tote bag, and you're just like going
Speaker 1: around town with a bunch of little baby dick and bolls.
Speaker 2: Like is so fucked up. It's so fucked up.
Speaker 1: So I was really like disappointed, but also like I
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm that like lack perception like that I
Speaker 1: didn't notice this was going to be such a problem.
Speaker 2: You know that this was disgusting? Yeah, I mean, did
Speaker 2: they I'm wondering.
Speaker 3: I'm now trying to think back to that do leap
Speaker 3: a sketch on SNL, Like did they address it like
Speaker 3: they had a wall of those sunny angel dolls in
Speaker 3: the sketch?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I have got to go back. I gotta go back,
Speaker 1: and look, I do have to talk about a situation.
Speaker 1: There's more, but you'll know why this is a huge deal.
Speaker 1: But I for Christmas, my friend got me a Mister
Speaker 1: Potato Head cookie jar.
Speaker 2: Okay wait, I saw the photo of.
Speaker 1: That and was like, is that the same one that
Speaker 1: you were telling me to get for the party? Yes,
Speaker 1: Because I was telling her, I go, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm on this site, there're soke and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I love the Timona and poomba and I go, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: That's what I looked at. But it's too big, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I was like we were because then I got
Speaker 1: someone in my Christmas group a Pelican cookie jar, and
Speaker 1: so we just it was a it was a heavy ceramics.
Speaker 1: I love it because then because then the other our
Speaker 1: other friend, I got her a vase that was a
Speaker 1: ceramic like buttoned down collared shirt, and then our other
Speaker 1: friend got her a ceramic pair of pants with cats
Speaker 1: coming out of it. So it's like she got a
Speaker 1: sur I'm full outfit. And then we each got cookie jars.
Speaker 1: So I was showing someone at the cellar and it
Speaker 1: was Lenny Marcus and he goes, that's like a crazy
Speaker 1: friend group. He's like, you all just got each other ceramics,
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck? But Kara and I just were
Speaker 1: talking about it about these cookie jars. She was going
Speaker 1: to this party, but I had just mentioned I'm like,
Speaker 1: can you believe this potato had cookie jar?
Speaker 2: And then I could.
Speaker 1: Not believe when I opened the box, like I really
Speaker 1: was surprised, so happy, I had a photo of it
Speaker 1: on my desktop, Like I was like these photos.
Speaker 2: I could not believe it.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's kind of like when you
Speaker 1: buy your kids stuff and they like the box. I
Speaker 1: got all these like nice gifts, but my friend and
Speaker 1: I guess it's like two dollars. But remember when Samantha
Speaker 1: has a crush on the priest and she brings them
Speaker 1: cans of peas and she goes.
Speaker 2: Lists sir, they're the best.
Speaker 1: So I got a can of l Surpee and I
Speaker 1: lost my mind and they were like I truly bought
Speaker 1: them at the corner Sturf for a dollar ninety eight,
Speaker 1: and I go, I thought they were ten dollars. Cansas peace,
Speaker 1: you know. But I got this cannonvala syrpiece with a
Speaker 1: bow on it, and like, I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: That's great. I mean, that's somebody who knows you. Yeah,
Speaker 3: somebody who knows you. And then we just kept going,
Speaker 3: they're the best. Oh my god, thirty Casey's had to
Speaker 3: literally reinvent a new flag that says how long we've
Speaker 3: been talking.
Speaker 1: Okay, but I have one more fucking story. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Okay, So I'm killing time. So I had
Speaker 1: a great Christmas time. New York is like desolate, everyone leaves.
Speaker 1: It was just like I loved kind of walking the streets,
Speaker 1: and then I love performing comedy at this time of
Speaker 1: year here. So I was doing five to eight spots
Speaker 1: a night. I was like a smike of God, I
Speaker 1: was sleeping. I was like staying out till three or
Speaker 1: four doing spots, and then like waking up at one
Speaker 1: or two. Like it really was kind of a heavenly
Speaker 1: time with some soul cycles sprinkled in. But I had
Speaker 1: I had an hour and I had two hours to kill,
Speaker 1: so I go, I'm going to go to the Chelsea
Speaker 1: Cafe and the Hotel Chelsea, sit at the bar, kill
Speaker 1: some time. So then after a while though, I get
Speaker 1: a text, I get a call from a friend and
Speaker 1: he's like, I have whatever. Two friends were going to
Speaker 1: come meet me, so I go great, and then a
Speaker 1: couple comes and they were going to take the two
Speaker 1: chairs next to me. Then there's a third chair with
Speaker 1: a coat and two men, and I already had my
Speaker 1: eye on them because those two men asked a woman
Speaker 1: who was sitting at the bar enjoying herself, are you
Speaker 1: traveling alone?
Speaker 2: And I thought that was creepy.
Speaker 1: So I clocked them and then she checked she she
Speaker 1: uh paid her bill and left and I bet it's
Speaker 1: because of them.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 1: So this couple wants to take the chair and I go, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: I actually do have a friend coming. Would you mind
Speaker 1: seeing if like you can take those two? And I
Speaker 1: get this one, and so they ask this guy and
Speaker 1: he goes, no, my jacket's there, and so they go,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, but like she's just trying to have a friend,
Speaker 1: like do you mind moving it? And then the guy goes, no,
Speaker 1: I have a big jacket, and granted there's hooks under
Speaker 1: the bar. They go there's and then the guy of
Speaker 1: the couple, realizing, he goes, oh, are you fucking being serious?
Speaker 2: Dude, I thought this was a bit. He gets worked.
Speaker 1: I mean this, they're piss and I'm like, I am
Speaker 1: so sorry, guys. I didn't mean to like we can stand,
Speaker 1: We'll get a table, like I am so sorry, and
Speaker 1: he was like no, this is bullsh Like this couple
Speaker 1: flips out. They go get a table. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: buy him a drink and they're like we're taking care
Speaker 1: of them, like you don't have to worry. So then
Speaker 1: it happens again where someone is like hey, and he goes,
Speaker 1: my jacket's on this chair and it is staying here.
Speaker 1: And then finally a manager came and we're like, we
Speaker 1: will hang up your coat, sir, and he goes, well,
Speaker 1: that wasn't an option, and it's like, oh it was.
Speaker 1: We said, there's hooks underneath. I am a giant park bar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: these two guys and like would not move his coat.
Speaker 1: It was crazy, wouldn't put it on the back of
Speaker 1: his own chair. Well it was a basketball, there's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like a nice yeah, Oh my god. People are
Speaker 1: just And I was I think I know who jacket
Speaker 1: guy voted for his own saying I think I know.
Speaker 1: But and the thing is, I was sitting there alone
Speaker 1: for a really long time, like the fact that a
Speaker 1: friend friends was coming was last minute, Like I wasn't right.
Speaker 1: I would have planned it sooner, like I would, you know,
Speaker 1: but just really crazy, so crazy.
Speaker 3: When I was in college, I used to put my
Speaker 3: you know, when I was in college, I had a
Speaker 3: Kate's Bade bag because I worked at a kid's clothing
Speaker 3: store and I carried a a Kate's Bade diaper bag
Speaker 3: as my like school bag.
Speaker 2: It was like it was c and like I would
Speaker 2: put it on the.
Speaker 3: Chair and people would always be like, oh, does Kate
Speaker 3: need to see and I always be like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: put it on the girl like I would always move it.
Speaker 1: But I guess there's some people that feel that their
Speaker 1: shit needs its own seat.
Speaker 3: That's so insane. Please don't be that person. In twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five, everybody, and we're starting.
Speaker 1: But I also want to say, we did take three
Speaker 1: weeks off of recording, and you know what, I watched
Speaker 1: the whole new season of SVU. I'm fully caught up.
Speaker 1: Loved it, and I see amazing, amazing programming. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I ever did this. I do this every year.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. Then I can't get
Speaker 2: up like I loved it.
Speaker 1: But then I've just been like watching SVU without think,
Speaker 1: like it was just old times, Like I was just
Speaker 1: kind of like four times, yeah, before times, just like
Speaker 1: putting on some heinous crimes.
Speaker 2: Baby.
Speaker 3: I've been liking the new season as well. I got
Speaker 3: caught up and I'm down.
Speaker 2: I'm in now.
Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta catch up on OC. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm a season behind on that ship. But yeah, we
Speaker 3: can start for real.
Speaker 1: And Casey wanted all of you to know he has
Speaker 1: no updates for you. He doesn't care to update you
Speaker 1: on his Chris no updates.
Speaker 4: I'm just don't think people want to know what They
Speaker 4: don't care what's going on in my life.
Speaker 2: How was Patience's first Christmas? Though?
Speaker 4: Oh it was great. She had a wonderful time. You know,
Speaker 4: all the toys we bought her, she always liked some
Speaker 4: strange like accessory that came with it, Like right, the
Speaker 4: wrapping paper are like this little hammer that came with
Speaker 4: this larger toy. She likes the hammer more so. Yeah, no,
Speaker 4: but she loves she had. She had a wonderful time.
Speaker 3: My kids when they were your kid's age, their favorite
Speaker 3: toy was DVD screeners, but and bottle with rocks in it.
Speaker 2: You know, anything that you can.
Speaker 3: Get, anything that's no money, that uh is an accessory
Speaker 3: of something you paid for. All right, but let's get
Speaker 3: started with today's episode.
Speaker 2: It's a good one, all right.
Speaker 1: We are doing the episode Lust today, season four, episode four,
Speaker 1: taking it back to the fall of two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: Like I forget that it's a thing, Like I had
Speaker 1: no memory of this episode the moment I saw him
Speaker 1: and like the thumbnail obviously, but I still there's so much.
Speaker 2: It's just so good.
Speaker 1: I would say it's one of the best episodes that
Speaker 1: I've forgot exists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like when I read the synopsis of it, I
Speaker 3: was like, have I seen this one? And then as
Speaker 3: soon as you see the main guy and then you
Speaker 3: when I hear the name Dartan or whatever like the aliases,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, it's this one. It's this one, like
Speaker 3: that's always like where I remember this.
Speaker 1: They had me going the whole time, like I was
Speaker 1: at the seat of my pants.
Speaker 3: Well, it opens on, honestly, just a gorgeous morning in
Speaker 3: Central Park, like it's beautiful. Two guys are arguing about
Speaker 3: the dog that obedient schools didn't work. I'm not sure
Speaker 3: what the relationship is. I think they were a couple,
Speaker 3: but it's like not very obvious. And their dog's name
Speaker 3: is Radio. And the guy who thinks that the dog
Speaker 3: sucks is Matt Cervito, who we actually he's been all
Speaker 3: over the Dick universe and he was just in the
Speaker 3: episode Parasites that we covered recently, and he was in
Speaker 3: like Billions and I realized he was also in Your
Speaker 3: Pretty Faces Going to Hell with Friend of the Pod
Speaker 3: Henry Zebrowski, and he played Satan, pretty big role. He
Speaker 3: was in many episodes as Satan, so big, a big
Speaker 3: get for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. Yeah, apparently he was in a silk top.
Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he is Doug and his pal and I gasped.
Speaker 2: When I saw him. I gasped, like that he is
Speaker 2: a thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's dug here and here he's just dug
Speaker 3: and like, we're not gonna see him for very long.
Speaker 3: And him and his friend's dog, Him and his boyfriend's
Speaker 3: dog just found something bad in the bushes, as all
Speaker 3: dogs tend to do on this show. And it's a
Speaker 3: woman's dead body, and we only see the legs, but
Speaker 3: they are covered in blood. Like it is gruesome, and
Speaker 3: now the gang is all there. The two guys who
Speaker 3: found her mentioned her face being so messed up that
Speaker 3: they couldn't recognize her, so they don't even know if
Speaker 3: she was like a park regular because they can't even
Speaker 3: see her. The vic is in her fifties or sixties,
Speaker 3: and the only idea is a key on a string.
Speaker 3: She's been beaten stabbed the whole nine, as Benson says,
Speaker 3: and her body is still warm. So this just happened
Speaker 3: in like broad daylight in Central Park. And then Live
Speaker 3: clocks a small dog's pawprint in the blood, like on
Speaker 3: the victim, but it's too small to be radios and
Speaker 3: so this woman carries treats. It must be from her
Speaker 3: own dog. I guess they found dog treats.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's confusing.
Speaker 3: Then they find a knife wrapped in plastic so they
Speaker 3: won't be able to get like any prints off of it.
Speaker 3: Then they also find a disposable rain ponn show that
Speaker 3: the pert probably wore. And then they find a dog's
Speaker 3: leash like tied around a tree, and they figured that
Speaker 3: the victim's dog wiggled out of his collar, left the
Speaker 3: pop print and then took off, And Munch goes, maybe
Speaker 3: Lassie went to get help A good a Lassie reference.
Speaker 2: As always, those.
Speaker 1: Dogs are so cute and I don't see them enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know why they're not more popular. They're like
Speaker 1: so fucking cute, they're beautiful. Yeah, I don't know why.
Speaker 3: Maybe you do more out in like like Montana or
Speaker 3: like Western States. Where they have like room to roam
Speaker 3: and like make cattle do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: But now we're at Melinda's house and she is telling
Speaker 3: us that there are thirty seven deep puncture onounes to
Speaker 3: the chest, mostly on the breasts.
Speaker 2: Yikes.
Speaker 1: The cause of death is acute pnumo thorax, which basically
Speaker 1: means she drowned in her own blood. Oh Happy Tuesday,
Speaker 1: no fluids. But she was sexually assaulted with a branch
Speaker 1: they found at the scene. Like it's really fucking brutal.
Speaker 3: Like I'm sorry, I'm trying to describe it, and I
Speaker 3: don't feel that there's a way to be funny here
Speaker 3: because it is a super brutal body, you know, autopsy here, no, prince,
Speaker 3: She's gonna need to do facial reconstruction because the guy
Speaker 3: completely wrecked her face. She was also wearing a ring,
Speaker 3: and Benson is impressed by the ring, and you know,
Speaker 3: Benson knows her shit, Like if it's a nice ring,
Speaker 3: Benson knows. Benson's like, what is this a Tiffany five carrat? Like,
Speaker 3: you know, she knows. Melinda gives them something they can
Speaker 3: use to help the id. This woman is in her
Speaker 3: sixties and walks with a limp. She probably had childhood
Speaker 3: polio because the vacs didn't come out until nineteen fifty four.
Speaker 3: But with any assist from RFK, it's gonna be back soon.
Speaker 3: I know we'll have folio back in the streets any
Speaker 3: day now. But yeah, her one leg is an inch
Speaker 3: shorter than the other one, I guess.
Speaker 2: So she would have walked with the limb.
Speaker 3: So back at the precinct, Finn is stating the obvious,
Speaker 3: like this guy wanted her to suffer. Stabler Breeze is
Speaker 3: in late from a parent teacher conference. Okay, uh, Daddy
Speaker 3: Cragan is in no mood for theories. He's got the
Speaker 3: press breathing down his neck and he needs something solid.
Speaker 3: I find out hard to believe that the press is
Speaker 3: like super breathing down his neck, being like who's the
Speaker 3: dead lady?
Speaker 2: Like over and over. I mean, there's so much going
Speaker 2: on in New York.
Speaker 1: But I also find it hard to believe that Stabler
Speaker 1: was at a parent teacher conference. Yeah exactly, I'm sure
Speaker 1: he's like, this has to happen, This parent teacher conference
Speaker 1: has to happen at nine pm or not at all,
Speaker 1: Like when I get out of work, but it's they're
Speaker 1: kind of fucked, they've got nothing. They're like, it's really
Speaker 1: brazen for broad daylight, Like maybe this guy's attacked older
Speaker 1: women before.
Speaker 3: Let's check that moo. Then they get a call that
Speaker 3: a j all dog was brought to the vet with
Speaker 3: bloody pause. Uh oh, so now the vet's filling them
Speaker 3: in that some joggers found the dog and he's a
Speaker 3: King Charles Spaniel.
Speaker 1: He looks like Elizabeth Taylor from Sex and the City
Speaker 1: and super super sweet dog. And he's not tattooed or chipped.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that dogs were getting tattooed. But that's
Speaker 1: a good idea, I guess for identification. Shameful, I know,
Speaker 1: I mean the chip seems better for sure. And then
Speaker 1: pet like a baby puppy French sheet today.
Speaker 2: Real cute, so cute. I love a little French sheeet.
Speaker 3: But she the vet has to explain chipping to Finn,
Speaker 3: like they haven't gotten to the Bob Sagged episode yet,
Speaker 3: Like Finn doesn't know about chipping, so she has to
Speaker 3: tell him like yeah, basically has the owner's name and number,
Speaker 3: like and it's sub subdural or subcutaneous or whatever like chip.
Speaker 3: So they washed away the blood, so the evidence is gone.
Speaker 3: But the Vet's like, but I did keep this, and
Speaker 3: it's a full sneaker.
Speaker 2: The dog had a full sneaker.
Speaker 3: In his mouth as he walked across the you know
Speaker 3: the part found Yeah, a hero dog, a junior detective, Yes, exactly,
Speaker 3: and McGruff the crime dog if you will. He has
Speaker 3: the sneaker has an orthotic in it for the shorter
Speaker 3: leg and this is wild. They're gonna identify this murder
Speaker 3: victim from her orthotic, Like they're at the company that
Speaker 3: makes it.
Speaker 2: He checks the serial number.
Speaker 3: He's like, these are all specific to our clients, and
Speaker 3: it belongs to doctor Esterman, they said, Greta Esterman.
Speaker 2: She works for the Department of Health.
Speaker 3: So now we're at CSU and we're talking to this
Speaker 3: tech that we've never seen before and.
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever see again. But he's a
Speaker 1: big part of this episode.
Speaker 3: And he's saying that this is his first time printing
Speaker 3: a dog and like they're gonna swab the dog's mouth
Speaker 3: too to see if he, like maybe bit the perp.
Speaker 3: And Greta Esterman lives on the Upper West Side. Her
Speaker 3: husband is a society lawyer named Arthur, and then Elliott
Speaker 3: goes to leave and Munches like, don't forget the dog,
Speaker 3: and so Elliott, you know, has to walk out this
Speaker 3: little king Charles.
Speaker 2: Under his will.
Speaker 1: They also at one point call him a pooch and
Speaker 1: they's Munch and it was really cute. They do say
Speaker 1: pooch twice at the beginning. It's really cute, like Olivia
Speaker 1: says it and then Munch says it. So yeah, we're
Speaker 1: a lot of pooch flying around.
Speaker 3: And then at the Estman residence we meet Arthur, who
Speaker 3: is played by Michael Gross, who most famously for me
Speaker 3: is the father from Family Ties, but Casey knows him
Speaker 3: from Tremors and he was also in the season sixteen
Speaker 3: episode of SVU Assaulting Reality, where it's like a Bachelor
Speaker 3: episode and he's one of the producers of the Bachelor
Speaker 3: show and like an assault happens and he's upset. He's like,
Speaker 3: I should have never let Greta go out alone, and
Speaker 3: he tells them he didn't leave the house till nine
Speaker 3: to go play tennis. Since he's retired, he's taken up
Speaker 3: a new hobby of sleeping late, so he woke up
Speaker 3: and just thought Greta had already gone to work and
Speaker 3: taken buddy with her, which she does sometime to time.
Speaker 3: And then they're like, well it's ten o'clock now, like,
Speaker 3: aren't you worried that she's not home? And he's like,
Speaker 3: she works late sometimes. So he explains she treated people
Speaker 3: with you guys.
Speaker 1: So I'm on Michael Gross's IMDb, and you know he
Speaker 1: went to Yale's School of Drama, so you know, I'm
Speaker 1: loving that. But before that, it says he was involved
Speaker 1: with a gang for a couple of years during high
Speaker 1: school before becoming a better student.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a little shocking to you. That's
Speaker 2: a very shocking.
Speaker 3: That's very shocking that Michael Gross, the father from Growing Pains,
Speaker 3: was in a gang for any amount of time.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised. Good, good tidbit.
Speaker 3: So doctor Esterman, Greta Esterman, her job was treating people
Speaker 3: with HIV and she tracked exposure patterns and some people
Speaker 3: thought it violated their privacy.
Speaker 2: So maybe she had some enemies.
Speaker 3: And the husband's like, well, she got occasional threats and
Speaker 3: last month a guy called her office and was saying.
Speaker 2: He was going to ruin her life.
Speaker 3: So now we're at the we're at Greta's office and
Speaker 3: that we're talking to Health Commissioner Chung. And she is
Speaker 3: played by Christine Toy Johnson, who literally is like rivaling
Speaker 3: Kevin Kane for most characters. She's been in Countdown as
Speaker 3: a doctor, she was in Anchor as Kiko Nishimora, she
Speaker 3: was in Holden's Manifesto granting immunity. I thought you were
Speaker 3: on my side and constricted as doctor Celia Lee. And
Speaker 3: here she's Health Commissioner Chung. So she's done a lot
Speaker 3: on SVE and she's telling Benson and Stabler that yes,
Speaker 3: Greta got threats, and Benson goes, yeah, contact tracers are
Speaker 3: about as popular as repo men, and I did. It's
Speaker 3: funny because I didn't even know the term contact tracing
Speaker 3: until COVID came around. But I guess obviously it's been
Speaker 3: used in like epidemiology probably for a long time, or
Speaker 3: like in tracking diseases, but I think it came into
Speaker 3: the consciousness with COVID, where you'd get like an alert
Speaker 3: from like the contract tracing app that someone near you
Speaker 3: had COVID or whatever. But she said, yes, like they
Speaker 3: get threats. But nothing deterred Greta. She was so dedicated.
Speaker 3: And then she hands over all of Greta's personal papers
Speaker 3: and a phone law and she's like, I just never
Speaker 3: had any of the threats investigated because Greta said that
Speaker 3: angers a normal response and that they'd eventually move on
Speaker 3: to acceptance, and you know, she didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 3: So at the precinct, Stabler and Menson are looking through
Speaker 3: all the shit that she gave, all the personal papers,
Speaker 3: and they're finding out that the Estermans love to party.
Speaker 2: Okay, they love to party for charity.
Speaker 3: They're big donations galas giving blood publicly at blood bank
Speaker 3: events like they're big, you know, the New York Society people.
Speaker 3: But last month AIDS activists threw pigs blood on her
Speaker 3: to protest some of the work she was doing with
Speaker 3: like pigs blood. So then Stabler reads one out loud
Speaker 3: so funny. It says, snoopy bitch, doctor you die. And
Speaker 3: his read is so funny, like if you're not watching
Speaker 3: this episode, or you're watching it later, please take a moment.
Speaker 3: And the way snoopy is spelled s n oop i
Speaker 3: e bitch is spelled b ic h. It's just a
Speaker 3: wonderful moment of Stabler just cold reading a threatening note.
Speaker 2: I wrote this snoopy fish, doctor you die.
Speaker 3: And then they say the husband's alibi about playing tennis
Speaker 3: checked out, and Stabler is pointing out that this woman
Speaker 3: just wanted to save lives and people hate her, and
Speaker 3: Munch takes this opportunity to obviously hop on his soapbox
Speaker 3: about the fine line between prevention and privacy, and Benson's like, okay, bro,
Speaker 3: but like people have the right to know if they've
Speaker 3: been exposed to hav and Munch is like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: just don't like it when the government starts making up lists,
Speaker 3: and Finn's like, don't get him started, please, And then
Speaker 3: Live finds something in the phone log. Anonymous mail says
Speaker 3: he'll copulate me to death is something that she wrote
Speaker 3: down in her phone log. And the idea is from
Speaker 3: somebody named Roger Pomerantz who did six years for sodomy
Speaker 3: one and just got out two months ago. Hasn't checked
Speaker 3: in with his PO in a while, so and I
Speaker 3: would say, a rare go, you gotta check.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the PO you got it, you got it. That's
Speaker 1: a big red flag.
Speaker 3: And Benson, Stabler, Finn and Munch all go to visit
Speaker 3: this guy. Usually they pair off, but good thing all
Speaker 3: four of them go because they go visit him at
Speaker 3: this bakery. He immediately runs. He's a big guy. When
Speaker 3: they id themselves, he runs, Finn cuts him off. The
Speaker 3: whole gang has to like work together to throw this
Speaker 3: guy up against a wall. And Munch is like, you know,
Speaker 3: resisting arrest is a parole violation, and Roger goes bite me,
Speaker 3: and Finn's like, we're gonna do a lot worse.
Speaker 2: It's like, wow, okay, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: So top of that too, you know, whenever I think
Speaker 1: of Pearol, I think of Miss Congeniality because in the
Speaker 1: beauty pageant, like the question they ask her like what
Speaker 1: do you care about? You know? She does, she goes,
Speaker 1: I would be tougher on parole viol violators. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I always have thought like why that was her number
Speaker 1: one passion?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that big of a deal. Well, I don't
Speaker 2: know because it is like it isn't.
Speaker 1: But it's like, if if I have the audience, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I just can't imagine parole.
Speaker 2: Violate being your number one thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would say, Bay, you know, like the
Speaker 1: juvenile system like that, she's seen other things. She's probably
Speaker 1: seen human trafficking. You know, she's in the FBI.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe she's like on the side that we are on.
Speaker 3: Sometimes when people get out of jail so quickly and
Speaker 3: like immediately reoffend or I don't know, of course that's
Speaker 3: what she means, but it's usually like not.
Speaker 1: Even show up, you didn't do something. But obviously you
Speaker 1: know I'm into full castration. So I am with her there, yes,
Speaker 1: fully of okay.
Speaker 3: So this little parole violator is now in cement room
Speaker 3: bars and they're talking about his record menacing gun charges, assault,
Speaker 3: one knife, point stranger, rape, and he's like, let me.
Speaker 2: Clarify that was a quote.
Speaker 1: He goes, hook or I who was pissed I wouldn't
Speaker 1: pay her for a lousy lay. It's like, that is
Speaker 1: literally what you have to do with sex workers. You
Speaker 1: must pay them for the lay. He's like, wait a second.
Speaker 3: In my defense, that one was okay because I just
Speaker 3: didn't want to pay for it, Like what?
Speaker 2: And then Benson's like, how's.
Speaker 3: Your sex life, rag, which I like that, and she goes,
Speaker 3: you still have to force women.
Speaker 2: He goes, I just got married. I get it all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: And now he's talking a Stabler about Benson like she
Speaker 3: could use a good like acting like she could use
Speaker 3: a good pounding or whatever. And Live does not like that.
Speaker 3: She's like, you don't like women in authority and he
Speaker 3: agrees he does not, and then she brings up Greta.
Speaker 2: He goes, she was in my business.
Speaker 3: She was going to call my wife and tell her
Speaker 3: I had gone a rhea, and Benson's like, so you're
Speaker 3: dumb enough to get the clap, And then the law
Speaker 3: says the doctor has to tell her and he's like,
Speaker 3: I was just exercising my free speech when I left
Speaker 3: her the threat on the phone. Right, So they bring
Speaker 3: up her murder and then he goes crazy. He lunges
Speaker 3: at Benson. He's like murder, and he like the murder,
Speaker 3: and then he launches at Benson and Stabler has to
Speaker 3: restrain him and his Stabler goes, where are you going
Speaker 3: with my table? Like while he hasn't been a headlock,
Speaker 3: he goes, where are you going with my table? And
Speaker 3: it's made me laugh, and then Stabler has him in
Speaker 3: some kind of calming chokehold that he keeps him in
Speaker 3: long enough for this guy to just completely calm down,
Speaker 3: and then he's able to keep questioning him. And basically
Speaker 3: the guy has an alibi, so he's a red herring.
Speaker 3: At the precinct, Munch and Finn are updating Daddy Craigan.
Speaker 3: The alibi checks out he was at work by eight am,
Speaker 3: and then Arthur Estman shows up with two bags of
Speaker 3: papers just as they're bringing Roger out, and with no warning,
Speaker 3: Arthur attacks Roger like head butts.
Speaker 2: Him, and then it's like so insane. He goes he's
Speaker 2: the one and just.
Speaker 1: Goes sazy giant and this man, yes, really funny, and
Speaker 1: this is like a man in his sixties who is,
Speaker 1: you know, on the slimmer side slimmer bills going up
Speaker 1: against this large man. And then so they lock Roger
Speaker 1: in a cell because I guess they're still going to
Speaker 1: get him on parole violations, and they're helping Arthur pick
Speaker 1: up all his papers and he's like, I found something
Speaker 1: that could help, and then he gives them a case
Speaker 1: file that Greta was really worried about, and she said
Speaker 1: she had told him it's a terrible situation that I
Speaker 1: have to stop, but didn't get into further detail. He
Speaker 1: can't figure out what any of the stuff means, but
Speaker 1: they've got an idea of someone who can help them translate. Boom, Melinda,
Speaker 1: she's there.
Speaker 3: She was up all night decoding the file and she
Speaker 3: figured out what doctor Esterman was working on. And it's
Speaker 3: a big contact trace, right. She was trying to track
Speaker 3: down the common source of infection of all these people
Speaker 3: who live in Little Italy. Most of them don't know
Speaker 3: each other, but a lot of them are positive for HIV.
Speaker 3: And she was looking at an HIV positive guy who
Speaker 3: had sex with a lot of partners, and he's the nexus.
Speaker 3: He's like the center of this miniature epidemic.
Speaker 1: If the Nexus, they're they're thinking, Okay, if the Nexus
Speaker 1: knew Greta was close to iding him, maybe he killed her.
Speaker 1: She wasn't done with her interviews, so maybe they need
Speaker 1: to pick it up where she left off, to finish
Speaker 1: it for her.
Speaker 2: And find the killer.
Speaker 3: Melinda gives them the list that Grata hadn't finished, and
Speaker 3: it starts with a college student named Mike Andretti.
Speaker 2: Now Benson is table.
Speaker 3: Are talking to Mic about why he didn't wear a
Speaker 3: condom and Lol, it's because he's Catholic. And if his
Speaker 3: mom catches him with a condom. He's dead, and then
Speaker 3: he goes, now I'm dead anyway, and lives like, no, no,
Speaker 3: there's treatment, and he goes, I don't mean from HIV,
Speaker 3: I mean from my mom. It's like, get a grip, dude,
Speaker 3: you're you're a fear of your mom has truly ruined
Speaker 3: your life. The person who gave it to him was
Speaker 3: this hot woman in his friend's building. She was all
Speaker 3: over him and said her husband didn't know what she was,
Speaker 3: what he was missing, and she was his first. They
Speaker 3: need her name, and he's like, the whole neighborhood's going
Speaker 3: to find out. I'm like, I don't really know if
Speaker 3: that's how New York works. And then he gives her
Speaker 3: the name and it's Vicenza, a ghosto. So like literally
Speaker 3: everybody in this little Italy thing is Italian according to
Speaker 3: this episode, like everyone who lives in little Italy is Italian,
Speaker 3: and they're all fucking each other. So now they go
Speaker 3: talk to Vicenza and she's like, it's Joey's fault.
Speaker 1: My husband. Who's my soon to be ex husband. She said,
Speaker 1: he's probably with a Strippery's banging. He knows she has
Speaker 1: HIV Joey, but he somehow didn't get it, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: a month before the wedding, I cut Joey off from
Speaker 1: sex for the honeymoon, you know, like to build up
Speaker 1: sex for the honeymoon or whatever. And he didn't care
Speaker 1: because he had a slot on the side. Then she
Speaker 1: comes home the honeymoon with chlamydia.
Speaker 3: So she figures out that Joey's been cheating, decides to
Speaker 3: get revenge. And she said the only person she slept
Speaker 3: with was this college kidnamed Mike, and they're like, girl,
Speaker 3: he says you were his first, and like, we believe him.
Speaker 3: He looks very virginal, and then she admits it was
Speaker 3: this guy, Mario, who bartended at a club. So now
Speaker 3: they're at the club and there's this guy there and
Speaker 3: at first he's like, nope, no Mario, and then they
Speaker 3: show him a picture of the doc that tracks HIV
Speaker 3: and he's like, wait, is this about AIDS And he
Speaker 3: spills everything and says Mario stopped coming in a couple
Speaker 3: weeks ago after the dock stop by. He's like, we
Speaker 3: don't share girls. He's way into other shit that I'm not.
Speaker 3: That's too hot for me, Like he's into orgy's threesomes,
Speaker 3: another girl, another guy, anything to get off. And then
Speaker 3: they're like, well, then why do you look like you're
Speaker 3: about to throw up? Like why do you look so spooked?
Speaker 3: And Finn's Finn goes, I got it. You guys share
Speaker 3: needles and then he goes, not dope, image enhancers steroids,
Speaker 3: And I'm like, you share needles for steroids, Like I
Speaker 3: thought needles sharing normally happens because you're like hi, and
Speaker 3: you're not really thinking straight about like hygiene. You just
Speaker 3: want to get high for steroids. It's like, go get
Speaker 3: a clean needle. I'm confused about why you would have
Speaker 3: to be sharing needles for steroids. But the guys like,
Speaker 3: I'm really screwed here, and they're like, so are all
Speaker 3: your partners? We need a list. So back at the precinct,
Speaker 3: it's science presentation time. Doctor Esterman had id'd forty seven
Speaker 3: cases in this little Italy neighborhood. They continued her trace
Speaker 3: and found thirty two more cases. That's seventy five cases
Speaker 3: in this area. And little Italy is small. Everybody, it
Speaker 3: is a small area. Like the nexus is one guy
Speaker 3: and his name is Mario Molinari. And he's directly connected
Speaker 3: to twelve women and two men, and out of those
Speaker 3: fourteen cases, the rest branch out from their partners. So
Speaker 3: everybody in Little Italy is banging okay, and they're like,
Speaker 3: Gregan goes, all right, let's go find typhoid Mario, which
Speaker 3: is funny to me. So they go to Little Italy
Speaker 3: and they talk to a bunch of old guys who
Speaker 3: know Mario, which is very like Italian I feel for
Speaker 3: a bunch of old guys just be outside drinking coffee,
Speaker 3: maybe playing cards, and they're like, oh yeah, girls are
Speaker 3: always looking for him. He's up at Saint Catherine's Hospital.
Speaker 3: An ambulance came for him. Probably wore himself out with
Speaker 3: all that bata bang uh like, So it's hilarious. But
Speaker 3: Saint Catherine's is where they had next, and they're talking
Speaker 3: to Mario played by a guy named Chris Tardio who
Speaker 3: was on four episodes of The Sopranos, still works, and
Speaker 3: he's like, why is the.
Speaker 2: Sex and the City guy?
Speaker 1: So he's, uh, he's when Samantha hires an assistant who
Speaker 1: has a lot of attitude and he won't listen to her,
Speaker 1: and then she goes you know what, you're fired, but
Speaker 1: we'll fuck now.
Speaker 3: And then on the desk, yes, okay, because I saw
Speaker 3: that he was on in indeed, just said like Matt
Speaker 3: or something, and I was like, oh, that's not ringing
Speaker 3: a bell immediately, so I didn't. I didn't look into it,
Speaker 3: but I knew you would. Why didn't look into it?
Speaker 3: I knew from the moment.
Speaker 2: You just knew from his face.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, wow, I did not recognize him as that
Speaker 3: assistant you our Sex and the City expert. So he's like,
Speaker 3: why does that doctor care who I slept with? And
Speaker 3: I'm like, why is everyone acting like it's the seventies.
Speaker 3: It's two thousand and two. We all know that HIV
Speaker 3: is not good to spread. Like He's like, why is
Speaker 3: everybody on my case?
Speaker 2: It's like, you have.
Speaker 1: HIV, sir, you cannot just go around doing whatever you want.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I didn't even know the doctor was murdered.
Speaker 1: He says, I wish I could have seen it. And
Speaker 1: then Benson checks his file, which you know is probably
Speaker 1: a violation of privacy, and she's like, he's been in
Speaker 1: the hospital with pneumonia for six days. It wasn't him,
Speaker 1: And he goes, yes, some slut gave me HIV and
Speaker 1: didn't give a damn.
Speaker 2: Now I don't give a damn.
Speaker 1: And the law says they can't tell anyone, and then
Speaker 1: they cuff him to his bed and they're like.
Speaker 3: Wrong, Like you knew you had AIDS, you didn't warn
Speaker 3: your partners. That's a crime. So this guy's now in trouble.
Speaker 3: Cabot is on the scene at the precinct and she's like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm gonna charge Mario with attempted murder, reckless endangerment,
Speaker 3: and statutory rape for the underage girls. Didn't even throwing
Speaker 3: that one in at the last minute. Didn't realize he
Speaker 3: was also poking up with underage girls. Cab says, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: this happened upstate and the health department posted flyers and
Speaker 3: people just came in to get tested. She's saying that
Speaker 3: to Benson because Benson's like concerned about, like, how are
Speaker 3: we going to find out who all these victims are?
Speaker 3: And then Craigan and Sabler walk in, Uh oh, they
Speaker 3: found another body in the park. Cut to the press
Speaker 3: questioning Cragan calling the perp the central park stalker. They
Speaker 3: want to know if a Cereal is on the loose.
Speaker 3: Now they're in Central Park. A mounted cop found the body.
Speaker 3: A mountie, they say, he he shook up. He's like,
Speaker 3: I've seen dead bodies, but nothing like this. And he
Speaker 3: says that this area the park doesn't really get a
Speaker 3: lot of traffic. It's two wooded for dog walkers and joggers.
Speaker 3: And he goes and then I just saw Mona lying
Speaker 3: there and they're like, you knew her, and he goes, Yeah,
Speaker 3: her name's Mona Sidley. I recognized her by her binoculars,
Speaker 3: not her face. She doesn't really have one anymore. Jesus okay,
Speaker 3: second old lady found with like a vague resemblance of
Speaker 3: a face in the park. Melinda found nothing on the
Speaker 3: body but one foreign hair. There was a similar knife
Speaker 3: sitch situation wrapped in plastic. We find out later that
Speaker 3: there was also a poncho. So it seems like the
Speaker 3: same guy. But Melinda's like, it might not be the
Speaker 3: same guy. Like Mona was only stabbed six times as
Speaker 3: opposed to thirty something in the Greta attack. Plus Mona's
Speaker 3: facial injuries aren't half as bad as what happened to Greta.
Speaker 3: This time, it was a broken bottle used in the
Speaker 3: sexual attack instead of a tree branch. It's really like,
Speaker 3: and Melinda's not sure it's the same guy.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 3: Why we questioned Melinda, but you know, she's like, I
Speaker 3: don't know. The moos just seems so different. So now
Speaker 3: we're talking to the CSU tech with no name. The
Speaker 3: guy playing him his named Manny Perez. He's been in
Speaker 3: three other episodes of SVU, and he says it's the
Speaker 3: same guy, no doubt. First off, another yellow poncho, another
Speaker 3: knife with the plastic around the handle, same tread found
Speaker 3: at the scene, matched to a size ten hiking boot.
Speaker 3: And he's got soil samples from Greta's regular jogging area,
Speaker 3: samples from where her body was found, and from where
Speaker 3: Mona's body was found. And he's like, when you find
Speaker 3: the shoes, they're gonna match all these three samples.
Speaker 2: I'm guaranteeing you.
Speaker 3: So then Finn tells Benson, I think it's definitely the
Speaker 3: same guy, and Benson's like, well, but why would the
Speaker 3: guy be losing passion about in his crimes when normally
Speaker 3: serial killers they escalate, like their crimes get worse and
Speaker 3: worse and they're like, maybe he got interrupted, maybe he's
Speaker 3: gotten more self control with experience. But his post murder
Speaker 3: behavior is different as well, Like he hid Greta, but
Speaker 3: not Mona. He left her out in the open. Maybe
Speaker 3: there's a connect between these victims. Mona lived alone, was
Speaker 3: never married, she was a retired bookkeeper. So then they
Speaker 3: remember that gret In Greta's calendar, they saw she had
Speaker 3: a standing lunch with her friend Bonnie Vernon, so they
Speaker 3: go have a chat with her and they're like, they're like,
Speaker 3: did Greta have any bird watcher friends? Because I guess
Speaker 3: you know, Mona's got the binocular, she's a bird watcher.
Speaker 3: And Bonnie's like no, and she would have told me
Speaker 3: something like that, which is hilarious, like the first thing
Speaker 3: you catch up with.
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, you know, I have a bird
Speaker 2: watcher friend now.
Speaker 3: But it turns out they were college roommates at Radcliffe
Speaker 3: and she met Arthur at Harvard. Her family did not
Speaker 3: approve of the marriage because she came from old money
Speaker 3: and they didn't think Arthur was good enough for her,
Speaker 3: and the friend goes he practiced tennis more than law,
Speaker 3: but as a couple they were perfect no affairs. Arthur
Speaker 3: is so old fashioned. I doubt he even looks at
Speaker 3: other women. But a few months earlier, she remembers, Greta
Speaker 3: asked her to run a credit report on a man,
Speaker 3: but didn't say why, but she knows it had to
Speaker 3: be personal, because otherwise she would have just used her
Speaker 3: city investigators that she has access to through the health department.
Speaker 3: And the guy's name was Vartan Dadian. There we go,
Speaker 3: there we go, Vartan. She remembers, thinking, Oh, my friend
Speaker 3: has an Armenian admirer. Okay, so now we're onto the
Speaker 3: trade tracking down of Vartan Dadian.
Speaker 1: I gotta know why someone put that name in like that?
Speaker 1: Is that's a good Neil question? Be like Neil, what
Speaker 1: is that an anagram of? I'm sure it's like some
Speaker 1: old star that he loves. But he says, no, if
Speaker 1: she maybe him, maybe we can email him, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: him before to ask him other questions. Yeah, you gotta
Speaker 1: ask him because I am so curious.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So now they're talking to Arthur and he's like, are
Speaker 3: you implying that she was having an affair?
Speaker 2: And he's like that's impossible.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, well, how did she seem lately,
Speaker 1: and he's like, not really herself.
Speaker 3: She seemed preoccupied. Sometimes she worked all night and didn't
Speaker 3: come home. She said she had to trace at night,
Speaker 3: and like bars and clubs were a big part of
Speaker 3: her contact tracing. So and then they asked him about
Speaker 3: Vartan Dadian, like any any ring, any bells, and he's
Speaker 3: like no, And if she had a boyfriend, I don't
Speaker 3: think I would know his name, she said. He goes,
Speaker 3: I thought we had the perfect marriage. Okay, there's no
Speaker 3: such thing. And then Cabot subpoenut financials for Vartan. He
Speaker 3: lives on the Upper East Side, he's got a pension,
Speaker 3: everything's pretty standard. Rent goes out small expenses, but he's
Speaker 3: got plenty of cash in another bank account opened last
Speaker 3: year and for the past year twenty a month has
Speaker 3: been going in to that account from Greta's personal account.
Speaker 3: And then charges. We're talking four star hotels, top restaurants,
Speaker 3: but also Gold Coast Models, okay, escorts, baby, So now
Speaker 3: we're at Gold Coast Models and there's a very SVU
Speaker 3: receptionist there. She's kind of dorky looking, and she whines.
Speaker 3: She's like, we don't take walk ins then she gets
Speaker 3: a call and she has a perfect sexy voice.
Speaker 2: She's like, thank you for calling Gold Coast Models. This
Speaker 2: is angel Like she fully changes her voice. It's very funny.
Speaker 3: And then she tries to stop Finn Munch from going in,
Speaker 3: but it's like, duh, you can't stop the cops. And
Speaker 3: then she's like Darla, like the cops are headed your way.
Speaker 2: So the boss.
Speaker 3: Darla's like, come on in, I've got nothing to hide.
Speaker 3: And they're like, who sees Dartan whatever?
Speaker 1: Vartan Dadian and they're like, she goes, oh, miss Kitty
Speaker 1: sees Dadian on a daily basis, and they're like where
Speaker 1: is she? Yeah, yeah, and she goes, well, she retired
Speaker 1: because he promised that he'd support her buy her a condo,
Speaker 1: but guess she's still waiting for her payday. So she
Speaker 1: works the bar at the Broadway Terrace Hotel. So they
Speaker 1: go find her there drinking a huge Cosmo and she's like,
Speaker 1: I last saw Vartan two nights ago. We went to dinner,
Speaker 1: then we went upstairs to the hotel suite, but he
Speaker 1: didn't have the funds for a sleepover, so she went
Speaker 1: home and he stayed to sleep And now they're at
Speaker 1: the apartment of our Tan Dadian and they're talking to
Speaker 1: this older man who seems very confused. He's like, SVU,
Speaker 1: what are you doing in my house? And he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not seeing anybody right now. And they're like,
Speaker 1: what about miss Kitty and he goes, now, I know
Speaker 1: you have the wrong guy.
Speaker 2: I'm not really interested in pussycats. I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3: So this is a gay man who does not use
Speaker 3: an escort service, and he has never heard of Gold
Speaker 3: Coast Models. And he's like, my bank account is not
Speaker 3: at that bank, and I haven't had any problems with
Speaker 3: credit card or ID THEFS, but I'll call my bank
Speaker 3: in the morning. And then they ask them about Greta
Speaker 3: and he's like, oh, yeah, I read about her in
Speaker 3: the papers, But how is my name involved in this?
Speaker 3: And they're like it's a misunderst But just as they
Speaker 3: go to leave, Stabler goes, oh, did you go to Harvard.
Speaker 3: They don't really say how he gets this idea. I
Speaker 3: guess he clocks like an alumni magazine or something on
Speaker 3: the table and he's like, yeah, I did Harvard and
Speaker 3: sixty Harvard class of sixty one.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 3: Interesting So now back to talking to miss Kitty and
Speaker 3: they've got her at the precinct and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we always met at five star restaurants.
Speaker 2: Bartan had very good taste. And they're like, well, where'd
Speaker 2: you go?
Speaker 3: Two nights to go and she says, shy Marco nine o'clock,
Speaker 3: want to know what I ate? And Finn goes, I'm
Speaker 3: not touching that one. And you know, it's season four.
Speaker 1: We're hot on the puns and the double entendre, and
Speaker 1: she says that night he was his usual charming self.
Speaker 2: And then Benson.
Speaker 1: Pulls Munch out and is like, you know what, we
Speaker 1: got too many Harvard guys in the mix here. I
Speaker 1: need you to give this photo a ray to Kitty
Speaker 1: and have her pick out her playmate. So then Munch
Speaker 1: does that and she picks out Done Done, Arthur Esterman.
Speaker 1: She goes, that's my Vartan.
Speaker 3: So this fucking sad widow has been plaguing the entire episode,
Speaker 3: and well, the night, yes, we were all buying it
Speaker 3: unless you subscribe to the rule that like they're not
Speaker 3: really going to bring in sort of a recognizable actor
Speaker 3: just for him to be like a sidecarre, you know,
Speaker 3: he's they're usually going to get something bigger.
Speaker 1: Maybe he had aids in the end and he was yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: ste fire, or it was like she had the you
Speaker 1: know there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't think of another example at the moment, but
Speaker 1: but it's true. He was setting her good job, like
Speaker 1: he was setting it up to look like she had
Speaker 1: an affair. Not only did he throw the next to
Speaker 1: sky at us, but he threw the fact well, yeah,
Speaker 1: she wasn't coming home a lot lately. I guess bars
Speaker 1: and clubs were part of her work, like totally trying
Speaker 1: to make it seem like she was having an affair.
Speaker 1: Like this guy was trying all the pulling out all
Speaker 1: the stops. So the gang is all talking about it
Speaker 1: and they're like, wow, the night of this guy's that
Speaker 1: this guy's wife's body is found, he went and saw
Speaker 1: Miss Kitty Andy booked another date for right after the funeral.
Speaker 1: He either killed her because she found out that he
Speaker 1: was draining the bank account or because he was a
Speaker 1: new life with Miss Kitty and Finn's like it's both.
Speaker 1: Greta was just at the bank last week asking questions
Speaker 1: about these wire transfers, and all the transfers were authorized
Speaker 1: by him, not her, And Craigan's like, well, why would
Speaker 1: like an HIV doctor be okay with her husband like
Speaker 1: seeing sex workers? And they're like, well, she didn't have
Speaker 1: that much time to confront him. She only went into
Speaker 1: the bank on Friday to ask about the money and
Speaker 1: she was found dead on Monday, so I guess probably
Speaker 1: an awkward weekend. But you know, only a little bit
Speaker 1: of time has she even had this knowledge, and it's
Speaker 1: still circumstantial. They say they need hard evidence. Miss Kitty's
Speaker 1: ID though, is enough for a search warrant. So now
Speaker 1: they're at the Estrument home and they're searching, and they're
Speaker 1: finding evidence of these big cash transfers to Bartan and
Speaker 1: they're like, he probably killed his wife and then killed
Speaker 1: Mona to make it look like it was a serial killer.
Speaker 1: Yet another thing he's throwing at the cops. So then
Speaker 1: he comes home, he's, you know, shock and awe, you
Speaker 1: think I killed my wife? Then munch fine, the boots
Speaker 1: house down, boots. His boots are dirty, okay, and he
Speaker 1: has no excuse. He's like, I love my wife, and
Speaker 1: Benson's like more than Miss Kitty, and he's like who
Speaker 1: And Benson's like.
Speaker 3: Save it Vartan and when she says that he's got
Speaker 3: that face on, that's like okay, fuck, they've got me.
Speaker 3: So back to the unnamed CSU tech who is confirming
Speaker 3: the shist found in the Central Park boots. He got
Speaker 3: a pollontologist to confirm the other sample. All this science
Speaker 3: shit that neither Finn nor I am interested in. But
Speaker 3: the boots that these boots.
Speaker 1: That they found in his house were near the body,
Speaker 1: and like the science seems so crazy, like you can
Speaker 1: actually say what they were near the body, like they're
Speaker 1: that specific the soil, But according to the sky, that's
Speaker 1: what a pollontologist does. And the footprints match the boots
Speaker 1: as well. So now they've got Arthur in interrogation and
Speaker 1: he's like it's a coincidence. The boots are very popular
Speaker 1: and the dirt he can explain he went to lay
Speaker 1: flowers at the grave and say a prayer for her,
Speaker 1: his wife and miss Sidley, and he tells them it's
Speaker 1: a waste of time.
Speaker 2: I loved my wife, Like, you guys are wrong.
Speaker 3: They're like interesting because you know, fake name, secret accounts,
Speaker 3: call girls. This doesn't really feel like love. And he's like,
Speaker 3: I did that out of respect.
Speaker 2: For Greta.
Speaker 3: And this like reminds me of when I literally almost
Speaker 3: got kicked out of my smoking my non smoking dorm
Speaker 3: for having an ashtray full of cigarette butts, and I
Speaker 3: told them that I would just bring cigarette butts from
Speaker 3: inside and put them in the ashtray, because like I
Speaker 3: was a good Smaritan. Like this is what the vibe
Speaker 3: is that this guy's trying to pull off. He's like, no, no,
Speaker 3: I did that for her, Like that was a respect
Speaker 3: for her. He says, after menopause, Greta lost interest in sex,
Speaker 3: but I didn't, and she was down with me being
Speaker 3: with other partners. I just had to be discreet, which
Speaker 3: is why I use the fake name. Benson is very
Speaker 3: skeptical that this literal HIV contact tracer was down with
Speaker 3: her husband having high risk sexual activity. And he's like, listen,
Speaker 3: we were married for forty years. Other kinds of fidelity
Speaker 3: matter more.
Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, we'll give us a DNA sample
Speaker 1: and he's like, why does that help. My DNA would
Speaker 1: be on my way anyway. And they're like, well, what
Speaker 1: about Mona. We found a hair and we can get
Speaker 1: a court order.
Speaker 3: And he's trying to call their bluff because he is
Speaker 3: a lawyer, right, he might be more of a tennis player,
Speaker 3: but he does have a law degree. And he's like,
Speaker 3: there's no connection to Mona. You guys have nothing. He
Speaker 3: makes an analogy like about JFK and MLK being shot
Speaker 3: with the same kind of weapon, Like, what you're suggesting
Speaker 3: is that Lee Harvey Oswald killed both of them.
Speaker 2: No judge is going to sign off on.
Speaker 3: A blood order for you guys, And he's very smug
Speaker 3: and grinning, and Benson looks grossed out. So behind the
Speaker 3: one way glass, unfortunately, Cabot is confirming he's right, like
Speaker 3: we don't have enough to force a sample and they
Speaker 3: can't connect him to Mona Sidley in any other way.
Speaker 3: So Benson's like, no blood sample, no case. And then
Speaker 3: Stabler pulls up the old article they found earlier about
Speaker 3: all the charities and the galas and the blood donation
Speaker 3: and is like, what about the blood he donated at
Speaker 3: this gala? Which is crazy because it's like they still
Speaker 3: have it, Like, I don't know. This is just a
Speaker 3: wild turn of sview events as usual. So now Arthur
Speaker 3: is in Petrowski's chambers with Cat and he's arguing if
Speaker 3: you allow this, then anyone who gives blood can have
Speaker 3: their rights trampled on. And Cabot argues that the blood
Speaker 3: bank chose not to contest their subpoena, he has no standing,
Speaker 3: And he's like, what about my privacy?
Speaker 2: I donated?
Speaker 3: But they're like, you donated the blood knowing it would
Speaker 3: be tested, And Petrovsky is like, kind of buying this
Speaker 3: and Arthur is like yeah. And Arthur's like, she's using
Speaker 3: my philanthropic activities to justify an end run around the
Speaker 3: judicial system. And Cabot says, I couldn't get a sample
Speaker 3: from him, but nothing in the law bars me from
Speaker 3: testing what he gave away freely, and Petrovsky agrees, but
Speaker 3: she limits the scope. You can only do the same
Speaker 3: tests that any blood bank would do on the blood,
Speaker 3: like blood type. You know, you can test for HIV
Speaker 3: and other kind of blood disorders, but don't They don't
Speaker 3: test for DNA.
Speaker 2: They don't test your DNA.
Speaker 1: So Melinda tells them that Esterman is blood type AB,
Speaker 1: he's free of any diseases, and the blood came back
Speaker 1: positive for viagra and ecstasy, which is used to enhance
Speaker 1: sexual encounters. Melinda explains and they're like, the amount that
Speaker 1: they found in his system, he would have had a
Speaker 1: two week hard on.
Speaker 2: That's what the CSU tech says.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. So far, we've talked him a
Speaker 3: few times. I haven't noticed a heart on. But Benson
Speaker 3: and Stable are walking and talking. They're like this, he's
Speaker 3: not gonna talk.
Speaker 2: Like what are we going to do?
Speaker 3: And then they're like, well, he is on ecstasy and
Speaker 3: you know viagra, Like, well he's on ecstasy, and people
Speaker 3: do tell their drug dealer stuff.
Speaker 2: Let's dump his phones. So then they dump his phones.
Speaker 3: They literally set up a sting with Finn in a
Speaker 3: convertible to buy ecstasy in broad daylight from this guy
Speaker 3: who hands him the ecstasy and is like you're gonna
Speaker 3: need two women, and then Finn's like, that's what my
Speaker 3: man Vartan told me. And then the dealer is immediately
Speaker 3: sketched out like dude, we don't use names, and he
Speaker 3: starts to leave, but Munch grabs him and they bring
Speaker 3: this like drug dealer like and they're like, we want
Speaker 3: the scoop on Bartan and they're like, he goes he's
Speaker 3: got a love shock on East ninety second Street and
Speaker 3: he just opped off.
Speaker 2: Some e there a few hours ago.
Speaker 1: So hours, yes, so he is hopefully currently at the
Speaker 1: love shack. They bust in on Family Ties Dad banging
Speaker 1: Miss Kitty and it uses a pretty graphic sex. I yes,
Speaker 1: it's like horned up. It's pretty crazy watching this Family
Speaker 1: Ties Dad really get at us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's two. It's like his full naked back hurt.
Speaker 1: She's like fully naked from the way stuff like you
Speaker 1: you're seeing like like humping and bumping.
Speaker 3: It's really it's a lot for SVU. You don't usually
Speaker 3: see that. Usually just hear noises and then people stop
Speaker 3: when you burst in. So he immediately jumps into lawyer
Speaker 3: mode and is like, well, you just violated the search
Speaker 3: warrant by not knocking. And they're like, well we heard
Speaker 3: a woman in distress.
Speaker 1: We heard moaning, and then they're like are you all right,
Speaker 1: miss and Miss Kitty is defending him like he didn't
Speaker 1: do anything, he would never murder anyone. And then Benson finds,
Speaker 1: I mean just sitting out on the table, miss Kitty,
Speaker 1: like open your eyes, sitting right out on the table
Speaker 1: is a one way ticket to prison. Ills and Benson's like,
Speaker 1: uh oh, miss Kitty looks like you're not going with
Speaker 1: and Kitty's like finally understands what's up. And then they're like,
Speaker 1: did you use a condom tonight? And she goes, no,
Speaker 1: I trusted the bastard. And so you get an idea
Speaker 1: of how they're gonna get Arthur's DNA.
Speaker 2: So back at the precinct, they confront Arthur.
Speaker 1: They're like, well, we got the DNA that you deposited
Speaker 1: in miss Kitty, and he goes, you'll find it's a
Speaker 1: match to the DNA I left on poor Mona Sidley.
Speaker 1: And it's like, wait, what You've done so many like
Speaker 1: smart chess moves and you're just giving it all up now,
Speaker 1: Like you don't even know that the hair was exclusive,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, Like they told you
Speaker 1: all they found was a hair and that could totally
Speaker 1: not have had a bulb on the end of it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's possible they didn't
Speaker 1: get the DNA from the hair, and I just don't
Speaker 1: buy that, but whatever, I know, the story does have
Speaker 1: to wrap up. And he says, yes, I'm sorry she
Speaker 1: had to die talking about Mona and they're like, is
Speaker 1: that a confession? And then he like looks to Stabler
Speaker 1: and he it's like, do you know what it's like
Speaker 1: to grow old?
Speaker 2: Detective?
Speaker 3: We were together forty years when she just stopped liking sex.
Speaker 3: That's how I found Kitty, and when I couldn't keep up,
Speaker 3: the viagra and the ecstasy made me feel like I
Speaker 3: was sixteen again. But Greta found out from the bank.
Speaker 3: She confronted me.
Speaker 1: I told her everything, begged her to try the ecstasy
Speaker 1: and rekindle our love.
Speaker 2: But Greta was not down. She looked at him like
Speaker 2: he was an animal, and she wanted to pull the money.
Speaker 2: So you killed her.
Speaker 1: And he says to Benson, beautiful women like you wouldn't
Speaker 1: even look at me if I wasn't rich, And then
Speaker 1: he says to Stabler, what are you going to do
Speaker 1: when your wife turns you away? And he's like, you'll
Speaker 1: do just what I did. And Stabler's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: doubt it. Like you killed a stranger, you mutilated your wife.
Speaker 1: Nothing justifies that.
Speaker 3: And he was like, I was alive for the first
Speaker 3: time in years, and Greta tried to take it away.
Speaker 2: I had to stop her. And that's dick wolf baby, and.
Speaker 3: It's so it's just wild because it's like you could
Speaker 3: have also just killed her, Like you killed her so violently,
Speaker 3: you know, like a simple stabbing would have done it,
Speaker 3: or a gun or whatever, like there are poison, there's
Speaker 3: a million ways you can do it. You literally made
Speaker 3: it so that her face had to be reconstructed like
Speaker 3: wild like. So this guy had some anger at him
Speaker 3: at the idea of having his sex life taken away basically.
Speaker 2: Or even just getting a job.
Speaker 6: It seemed like, really you could go back to practicing
Speaker 6: laws or yeah, like you can work. So that was
Speaker 6: that was an interesting moment as well, and a lot
Speaker 6: of similarities, a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2: So we'll dive.
Speaker 1: Right into these cases of these killers. All right, So
Speaker 1: the first okay, I'll just set the scene.
Speaker 2: So it's Halloween morning, nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Mabel Grenader and people call her May was savagely murdered
Speaker 1: on a wooden wooded trail in Wesley, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: Wellesley. I have a lot of friends from this Ay
Speaker 3: from Wellesley.
Speaker 1: And so she and her husband Dirk which is not
Speaker 1: a real name, but her Grenader. He was a doctor
Speaker 1: and allergist and if you're interested, he mostly focused on
Speaker 1: childhood asthma. I threw that in because you have asthma,
Speaker 1: So yes, there way and of course, baby Noah, we've
Speaker 1: got a yeah, yeah, huge, hugely popular.
Speaker 2: And so whatever.
Speaker 1: So the two of them, they went to take their
Speaker 1: dog out for a walk around this pond.
Speaker 2: And they've been married for thirty years.
Speaker 1: She worked for him as a nurse and was, you know,
Speaker 1: pursuing an advanced degree in healthcare.
Speaker 2: And they met.
Speaker 1: They raised three children and lived in Wellesley this whole time,
Speaker 1: and they were known by neighbors and friends as like
Speaker 1: very close, devoted to each other, and they walked these
Speaker 1: German shepherds every day, like they always had dogs, and
Speaker 1: they're walking them. He calls nine one one from his
Speaker 1: cell phone. He said he left his wife to rest
Speaker 1: and he kept going because she was having a back pain.
Speaker 1: But he wanted to get his dogs some exercise, so
Speaker 1: they split up, and when he returned, he found her
Speaker 1: lifeless body bludgeoned and stabbed. So they were separated for
Speaker 1: like ten minutes, and he claims he returned and found
Speaker 1: her there. It was gruesome, like she was nearly decapitated,
Speaker 1: stabbed in the chest and her skull was smashed with
Speaker 1: a hammer, and her throat was slit and police found yeah, gruesome, gruesome,
Speaker 1: And police found gloves, a hammer, a pocket knife believed
Speaker 1: to be used in the murder in a nearby storm
Speaker 1: drain with DNA evidence. There was DNA found on the
Speaker 1: knife and gloves used in the killing, and all the
Speaker 1: items had is blood on them. And obviously the husband's
Speaker 1: a suspect. But he's like, no, it's a thrill kill.
Speaker 1: There's it's a thrill kill. And it's like, no, you're
Speaker 1: the number one suspect. Actually, a thrill kill is not
Speaker 1: even a thing. And like his kids kept being like,
Speaker 1: it's a thrill killer and it's like, what are you
Speaker 1: talking about? But yeah, his children are all but it's
Speaker 1: not even a thing. It's not like it's your own
Speaker 1: family lingo. No one uh, no, one talks about this
Speaker 1: thrill I mean, I think a thrill killer is like Bundy.
Speaker 1: Bundy was like a thrill killer. Yeah, but like he
Speaker 1: made it seem like it was a string of thrill
Speaker 1: kills that it was like someone was doing it, and
Speaker 1: they found the perfect moment in the ten minutes that
Speaker 1: he walked with the dog.
Speaker 2: It's just like impossible.
Speaker 1: But even with Ted Bundy, you would you would be
Speaker 1: like a serial killer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd be, you would.
Speaker 1: I just don't hear people going my wife was killed
Speaker 1: by a thrill killer, Like, it's just not really a thing.
Speaker 1: Whether then in an analysis, we you know they do
Speaker 1: it for the joy of the game or whatnot.
Speaker 2: But I just it's suspicious to me.
Speaker 1: And the investigation of this case, which the University of
Speaker 1: Chicago Press called meticulous, was led by Marty Foley, which
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a professional name from the state police.
Speaker 1: And of course when this comes out, the town of shocks, right,
Speaker 1: this is a prominent physician, a family man, but guess
Speaker 1: what living a double life.
Speaker 2: He loved sex.
Speaker 1: Workers, porn and trists from the internet, just like the
Speaker 1: episode Dirk claimed that they were having intimacy issues and
Speaker 1: she wouldn't deal with them. He used a fake name
Speaker 1: Thomas Young, not as you know, silly as Dartam or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then he was downloading porn, huge phone sex bills.
Speaker 1: He was meeting with sex workers in hotels and his
Speaker 1: home office. Police actually found that he contacted a sex
Speaker 1: worker a day after his wife's murder and the debut,
Speaker 1: So yeah, before and after the murder, he was in
Speaker 1: those streets and they thought that he killed his wife
Speaker 1: in order to be more free out in the streets.
Speaker 1: He was arrested mid November ninety nine, and the courtroom,
Speaker 1: I guess, was like very dramatic, and it was like
Speaker 1: air on court TV, and it was just like air
Speaker 1: nationally and there's a lot of spectacles. I saw no
Speaker 1: other follow up to that little claim, So I don't
Speaker 1: know if that was to sell a book or what,
Speaker 1: but like, there was nothing wild that I came.
Speaker 3: I almost surprised I didn't hear about this because like
Speaker 3: I went to college. I was in college in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety nine with a ton of people from this area,
Speaker 3: from Wellesley, and it's like only a couple hours from
Speaker 3: where I went to college.
Speaker 2: So I'm really surprised.
Speaker 3: I guess I wasn't like as on the internet in college,
Speaker 3: you know, just reading about stories and crimes.
Speaker 2: So I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I also want to say that like that part of
Speaker 1: the country, it seems like have lots of secret family is,
Speaker 1: lots of lies, lots of corruption.
Speaker 2: Yes, so maybe it didn't come up.
Speaker 1: But over the course of the trial, the prosecution described
Speaker 1: how Dirk had set up a phone company and used
Speaker 1: it to apply for a corporate credit card under his
Speaker 1: alias Thomas Young. You know, they talked about all his
Speaker 1: group sex and how frequent it had gotten, and his
Speaker 1: behavior was obsessive. In the week before his wife's murder
Speaker 1: and those seven days, he contacted several prostitutes, had sex
Speaker 1: with at least one, and was spending more than four
Speaker 1: hours a day on internet porn sites. And this is
Speaker 1: an addition to keeping up with his demanding ass job.
Speaker 1: You know, if he wanted to, he would, And it's
Speaker 1: not like May didn't know.
Speaker 2: She was like, what's going on? You know.
Speaker 1: The witnesses said that she was getting insecure in the
Speaker 1: marriage and started buying new clothes. Working out was like
Speaker 1: thinking about getting a facelift. Prosecution spun it that she
Speaker 1: probably got close to figuring it out or already did,
Speaker 1: and he wanted her out of the way, or like
Speaker 1: if it did get out, how it affect his career
Speaker 1: and relationship with his children. The prosecution also stressed that
Speaker 1: when witnesses placed this guy in the moments after the murder,
Speaker 1: emerging from the area where the murder weapons were found,
Speaker 1: not like heading in the most likely place to get help,
Speaker 1: which is the main road. So if like you find
Speaker 1: a crazy murderer, you would like go to a populated
Speaker 1: area and not come out of the woods. They also
Speaker 1: said that he delayed making the nine to one one call,
Speaker 1: and also after like thirty to forty minutes of making
Speaker 1: the call, police said that he asked, is she dead?
Speaker 1: And am I going to be arrested? So I don't know,
Speaker 1: but you know, Miranda writes, don't say anything, but or
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Why would you ask if you're going to be arrested? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Isn't it a thrill killer?
Speaker 1: So they focus on also why the doctor had no
Speaker 1: blood on his hands, because he testified he tried to
Speaker 1: pick up his wife's battered body and found and like
Speaker 1: find a pulse in her neck. He is a fucking
Speaker 1: doctor And this is according to the New York Times,
Speaker 1: So like, why wouldn't you be covered in her blood? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the defense of that, the cops ignored that there
Speaker 1: was two other crimes unsolved involving the killing of elderly
Speaker 1: people in nearby recreation areas within the previous year, and
Speaker 1: that's according to the Cape Cod Times. All right, so
Speaker 1: what he did have, like he didn't have evidence, really,
Speaker 1: but he had testimony he had a lot of support
Speaker 1: from friends and family and his three children. The case
Speaker 1: did put a divide in the family, so you know,
Speaker 1: both Dirk and Mabel's relatives were aiding an investigation. The
Speaker 1: victim's sister, Elsa Stark and her daughter Belinda Markle both
Speaker 1: testified against him, and in the Boston Harald, Lol, they
Speaker 1: called him a sex obsessed wife slayer. And that's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, a cool Halloween costume, I guess, yer,
Speaker 1: I guess A lot of the evidence was circumstantial, and
Speaker 1: I do see that. And they had a classic SVU
Speaker 1: that like the plastic zipper bags near her b were
Speaker 1: the same ones found in their home.
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, you can't really do that.
Speaker 1: But it was a six week trial, four days of
Speaker 1: deliberations with the jury, and on June twenty ninth, two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, he was found guilty at sixty years old,
Speaker 1: a first degree murder and sentenced to life without the
Speaker 1: possibility of parole. Stark thinked the jury and did not
Speaker 1: look at Grainander at all. And then also there was,
Speaker 1: like I guess, some sort of loophole in the Massachusetts law,
Speaker 1: so that even though he was found guilty for murdering
Speaker 1: his wife, he was still the executor of her state estate.
Speaker 1: WHOA yeah, Stark had to fight to stop him from
Speaker 1: being entitled to selling her property, investing and distributing assets
Speaker 1: all from his cell. He sold their big family home
Speaker 1: for four hundred K and then like sold it to
Speaker 1: his youngest daughter's boyfriend for a dollar. I don't know
Speaker 1: how that works. That's actually confusing to me, because what
Speaker 1: do you mean he sold it and then was able
Speaker 1: to sell it.
Speaker 3: To maybe the house was worth four hundred k and
Speaker 3: that's what he saw to the daughter's boyfriend for I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: That's crazy. And he planned for this.
Speaker 1: So he applied to the Norfolk Probate Court to be
Speaker 1: appointed the ex executor of her estate just two months
Speaker 1: after her death, and the application was approved on February seventh,
Speaker 1: two thousand, three weeks before he was indicted on a
Speaker 1: charge of murder. So and she had and she also
Speaker 1: had a will that was signed months before her death
Speaker 1: that her husband would inherit everything, but then being convicted
Speaker 1: it did disinherit him in the state law. But then
Speaker 1: like the application to this state without the will was
Speaker 1: like approved.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what's.
Speaker 1: Going on in Wellesley, but he wasn't part of her inheritance,
Speaker 1: but he was part of like whatever application he did
Speaker 1: to be her state person. Yeah, I don't really know,
Speaker 1: but either way, it's like fucked up. The house was
Speaker 1: torn down in twenty sixteen, and the last purchase of
Speaker 1: the house was in two thousand and two for six
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five thousand. According to Zillo, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but basically, he had a lot of ducks in a row.
Speaker 1: He was able to do shit with her estate, and
Speaker 1: like her sister was trying to get it back, and
Speaker 1: that just like doesn't seem like an innocent man to me,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, yeah, but I understand he wants things
Speaker 1: for his children, but I doubt that the aunt was
Speaker 1: trying to fuck over her sister's children, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: He doesn't think he committed the crime.
Speaker 1: He's like, I cooperated with cops, but they were only
Speaker 1: focused on me. He believes that the whole trial was
Speaker 1: all about him being involved with sex workers and that
Speaker 1: it's not fair. He says he loved his wife and
Speaker 1: still does and that the cheating is what made the
Speaker 1: jury convict him. The kids still support him and maintain
Speaker 1: their father's innocence even decades later. There's a quote from
Speaker 1: the daughter Brittany, my mother was a fighter. She would
Speaker 1: have told us to continue to stand up, continue to
Speaker 1: speak the truth, because what other choice do we have.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I don't know, it's worse. I like,
Speaker 1: your mom's dead and watching you defund her killer, but
Speaker 1: it is your dad. Nonetheless, he's in his eighties. He's
Speaker 1: in a medium security prison in Norfolk. Every pro orle
Speaker 1: board like he's been denied parole tons of times, and
Speaker 1: there's just like so many articles about him trying to
Speaker 1: get out of prison. But basically, parole boards look for
Speaker 1: people that have taken responsibility for their crimes, accepted it,
Speaker 1: and like want to move forward, and he refuses to
Speaker 1: do that. He does not take responsibility. The verdict has
Speaker 1: been upheld at every level of appellet review. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you want to know more, it seems like
Speaker 1: this book is cool. A murder in Wellesley and it
Speaker 1: seems intense. Yeah, so you can do it, okay, And
Speaker 1: then there's one more so. The next case is the
Speaker 1: Craig Rabinowitz case. And you know, a tale as old
Speaker 1: as time same thing. Family friends, neighbors are like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Craig and Stephanie Rabinowitz are like the perfect couple.
Speaker 1: They had a baby daughter, Haley, dream home and an
Speaker 1: upscale They keep saying Mainline neighborhood of Mary in Pennsylvania, and.
Speaker 3: So that's like main Line is like a collection of
Speaker 3: these might have a lot of friends that are from
Speaker 3: the main Line.
Speaker 2: It's like a collection of Philly suburbs.
Speaker 1: And she was an attorney and he had a latex
Speaker 1: products business. They met when she was Okay, so they
Speaker 1: met you. This is so they met when she was
Speaker 1: a counselor in training and he was a counselor at
Speaker 1: summer camp and she was sixteen and doing the math
Speaker 1: from the ages of the time of the crime. He
Speaker 1: was twenty. So that's just something to kind of think about.
Speaker 1: But she was a National Merit scholar who went to
Speaker 1: Brindmar and then Temple University for law school. He did
Speaker 1: not complete his degree from Temple, and the Washington Post
Speaker 1: is trying to shade him for sure, like I think
Speaker 1: every but like no one.
Speaker 2: Was like, oh, he's uneducated.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like her family didn't think he was good enough,
Speaker 1: like everyone liked Craig.
Speaker 2: He was a really lover and yeah, everyone was on
Speaker 2: top of it.
Speaker 1: She was on her way to have what she thought
Speaker 1: was a perfect life for herself, you know, family, great job,
Speaker 1: a loving husband. And on April thirtieth, nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: shortly after midnight, Craig called police to report that he
Speaker 1: had found his wife's lifeless body in the bathtub. She
Speaker 1: was twenty nine, he was thirty three. And for days
Speaker 1: loved ones grieved with him. You know, it appeared to
Speaker 1: be an accidental death. But then, as the Washington Post
Speaker 1: puts it, grief changed to disbelief after an autopsy showed
Speaker 1: that Stephanie had not hit her head and drowned like suspected,
Speaker 1: but had been strangled.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And there was also physical evidence that showed that she
Speaker 1: had bruises on her side and was maybe killed somewhere
Speaker 1: else and then drags upstairs to the tub. So May fifth,
Speaker 1: right after his wife's funeral, Craig was arrested and charged
Speaker 1: with the murder. He was dubbed the mainline murderer by
Speaker 1: the local news. And he had a secret life and
Speaker 1: it was all front page news. He had huge debts,
Speaker 1: his company was fake, not real. He fooled everyone on
Speaker 1: all accounts, Like all family and friends believed his business
Speaker 1: was legit selling gloves and other Latex products out of
Speaker 1: his home, but prosecutors say there's no evidence he conducted
Speaker 1: any real business. The couple apparently was living on Stephanie's salary,
Speaker 1: which was like thirty three thousand dollars as a part
Speaker 1: time lawyer in a Philadelphia law firm. Yeah, everyone kept like,
Speaker 1: and this amazing job, and it's like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: Money was tight, and.
Speaker 1: They bought a two hundred and thirty thousand dollars home
Speaker 1: and took out two additional mortgages, borrowing a total of
Speaker 1: like three hundred thousand, five hundred and like loans from
Speaker 1: friends totaling ten grand. The couple took out a one
Speaker 1: point five million dollar insurance policy on Stephanie, naming her
Speaker 1: husband the beneficiary, just weeks before her death, And like, so,
Speaker 1: what was going on? What was all these debts and
Speaker 1: money and everything? While he was spending all on a
Speaker 1: stripper named Summer aka Shannon Reinhardt, who danced at a
Speaker 1: downtown Philly club, Delilah's Den. Nobody knew this, but he
Speaker 1: was spending thousands a week. And when you think that
Speaker 1: she's only making thirty three grand, that's.
Speaker 2: Like what.
Speaker 1: He was giving her money, gifts, furniture, health club memberships.
Speaker 1: He'd been seeing her regularly for about a year, and
Speaker 1: he spent almost twenty nine grand visiting Delilah's den Gez Shannon, though,
Speaker 1: said their relationship was only professional and I believe it, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, maybe she's like but I
Speaker 1: kind of like believe that he was de Lulu. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like the bombshell. It's like her job is getting
Speaker 1: money from you, Like I don't and this wasn't. And
Speaker 1: what's shocking is none of this was new. Court documents
Speaker 1: revealed he was caught in a Philadelphia prostitution ring investigation
Speaker 1: several years prior, and received immunity from prosecution for his
Speaker 1: testimony in March nineteen ninety three. Wow, so everyone is
Speaker 1: stuned and at first her parents ann In Lois Lewis Louis.
Speaker 1: At first her parents the Newman's stood behind him and
Speaker 1: were down to post collateral for his bail, and then
Speaker 1: they were crushed with this news that he like pawned
Speaker 1: his wife's jewelry for this stripper and also pawned her
Speaker 1: engagement ring within days of her death, according to their attorney,
Speaker 1: Neil Epstein's The Washington Post. So like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe your daughter Hayley would have wanted that ring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And people close to her don't think she knew or
Speaker 1: like would tolerate and something like this. And the parent,
Speaker 1: the parents, to their very core, according to the lawyer,
Speaker 1: were like, absolutely, she did not know this. And that's
Speaker 1: in the Washington Post. So then he was like in
Speaker 1: this crossroads, right, he was in all this debt, all
Speaker 1: this stuff. So it's like, Okay, confess your double life
Speaker 1: and debt to everyone you know, or murder your wife
Speaker 1: and collect life insurance money.
Speaker 2: And that's what he decided to do.
Speaker 1: He was like, Oh, I'm gonna kill the mother of
Speaker 1: my child and then I'm gonna continue living a life
Speaker 1: with this stripper.
Speaker 2: Like what are you talking about? Out?
Speaker 1: Like Jesus, he this motherfucker strangled his wife, set up
Speaker 1: a murder scene while his daughter's at home. Like the
Speaker 1: daughter's sleeping in her home as you're strangling her mom.
Speaker 1: Like and instead of just being like, yo, I'm in
Speaker 1: debt and I'm a piece of shit like I can't.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand.
Speaker 1: And this guy also had a suitcase packed thousands in
Speaker 1: cash ready to flee after his wife's funeral. The grandparents
Speaker 1: obviously took the one year old daughter, who turned one
Speaker 1: the day of her mother's memorial service. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And it's just he's disgusting. And the law firm Stephanie
Speaker 1: worked that established a trust for Haley, so someone is
Speaker 1: thinking about her future, pawning the engagement ring after she's set.
Speaker 1: After you kill, I mean, it is like, I mean,
Speaker 1: the murder is bad enough, but it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what a fucking slimeball. His attorneys were trying to investigate
Speaker 1: leads of a strange man knocking on neighbors doors, and yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like, go fuck yourself. They're like, no, they were
Speaker 1: the only there was no sign of fourth century at all.
Speaker 1: But while sobbing, he did plead guilty, thank fucking God,
Speaker 1: to charges of first degree murder, theft by deception, and
Speaker 1: deceptive business practices. He did this, he says, according to
Speaker 1: The New York Times, to spare his family the pain
Speaker 1: of a trial. He was sentenced to life in prison
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. And kind of wild. So
Speaker 1: like The New York Times reported about his sentence and
Speaker 1: guilty conviction on October thirty first, nineteen ninety seven. So
Speaker 1: like two cases to Halloween, sucky, very spooky. But even
Speaker 1: though you know he was claiming someone enter the home
Speaker 1: or whatever, he finally admitted it.
Speaker 2: He told Judge Samuel W.
Speaker 1: Sallis, two D of Montgomery County Court that he decided
Speaker 1: to enter the plea after three dead loved ones. His wife,
Speaker 1: father in law, and father visited him in a dream
Speaker 1: that he had, and they put their hands on his
Speaker 1: hand and said, crag, it's time for you to do
Speaker 1: what's right. It's time for you to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: And that's he's That's why I wish, gosh.
Speaker 3: An angel had come to you in your dream and
Speaker 3: told you not to murder your fucking innocent wife. I know,
Speaker 3: just because you love you love strippers, Jesus Christ. Couple
Speaker 3: of scumbags. Oh my gosh, what an episode.
Speaker 2: Thank you for telling me about those crimes.
Speaker 3: I had never heard of either of those, and both
Speaker 3: from not very far from where I.
Speaker 2: Grew up and was at the time that they happened.
Speaker 3: Interesting and no guests today, So let's move right onto
Speaker 3: our post mortem of today's episode.
Speaker 1: It's a good episode totally. It's the Bartan episode, the
Speaker 1: random bar Dan. I love seeing an old, beloved man
Speaker 1: from a family sitcom be evil. That's fun too.
Speaker 3: I mean this episode is like classic, like also just misogyny.
Speaker 3: This man has just like been second fiddle to his
Speaker 3: wife his whole life, and then he's like, I just
Speaker 3: want to fuck, let me fuck. She's trying to stop
Speaker 3: me from fucking, and so she's just like I'm gonna
Speaker 3: kill her, like it's so, and then he kills another
Speaker 3: woman just to cover up his crime. That poor innocent mona,
Speaker 3: like I mean, a truly a truly.
Speaker 1: Evil chilling people can snap at any moment. Oh, how
Speaker 1: about this not related to this episode, the Terogram chat
Speaker 1: or whatever that has seventy thousand men talking about how
Speaker 1: to rape their wives and girlfriends and stuff, fucking chilling.
Speaker 1: This guy's in that group probably, and I don't know
Speaker 1: the real life crimes.
Speaker 2: It's like I want to say, Wow.
Speaker 1: I can't believe that like a story like that happened,
Speaker 1: and then it jumps right into a TV script.
Speaker 2: It's like, no, it happens all time.
Speaker 3: Men are just killing their wives out there, like, uh,
Speaker 3: it's nightmare town. But I guess what we learned is, yeah,
Speaker 3: even if you meet your husband at Harvard, be careful
Speaker 3: because you might be more successful than him and it's
Speaker 3: going to lead to your downfall.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just there was a clip in my algorithm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like if women make more they there's more likely
Speaker 1: chance of divorce. And she'd like, they just get pissed.
Speaker 1: If you get promoted, your chances of divorce go up.
Speaker 1: It's like these dudes. Honestly, I gotten to not a
Speaker 1: tiff online, but it was this thing of like, you know,
Speaker 1: men will talk about their issues and be like, well
Speaker 1: we're doing this and that it's like, well, yeah, be
Speaker 1: more like women. Like the solution to men's problems is
Speaker 1: to be more like women, and they refuse and they
Speaker 1: want to they also want women to solve their problems.
Speaker 1: Yet don't trust us in any capacity or listen in
Speaker 1: any way. But it's like, yeah, just like, be chill
Speaker 1: and be like a woman and be more like us,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you won't all be lonely and dying alone.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 3: Literally, the plot of Mowana, like the plot of Mowana
Speaker 3: is that she handles it like the way a woman
Speaker 3: would handle it rather than fighting and like you know,
Speaker 3: muscles and magic and whatever.
Speaker 2: So anyway, just.
Speaker 3: You know, gotta give a shit always always goes back
Speaker 3: to Mawana. But like, yeah, no one will listen to her.
Speaker 3: She's just a girl, she's a prince at whatever. Like
Speaker 3: no one will listen to her. And then she's fucking
Speaker 3: the one that that does it. But yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 3: That's why I was like, not to bring it back
Speaker 3: with a new year. We're gonna be positive. But like
Speaker 3: I was like, let's just give a woman president a shot.
Speaker 3: Let's just see what fucking happens. We've done it the
Speaker 3: same way forty seven times. Let's try it a different way,
Speaker 3: and no one will. They just they don't see us
Speaker 3: as people. They don't respect us. They've shown it time
Speaker 3: and time again. I don't know what the game is.
Speaker 3: And now they're pissed. Now oh oh the banging. There's
Speaker 3: banging my radiator as people are online are calling it
Speaker 3: the sword fighting. People think it sounds like there's a
Speaker 3: sword fight.
Speaker 1: Now that's all I'm gonna think about on guard. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and now and now that women have like the power
Speaker 1: to be like no, we're just gonna work, or in
Speaker 1: South Korea like yeah, we're just not gonna get like
Speaker 1: get away from us. Now they're like, well, then you're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to get divorced, and we're you're
Speaker 1: gonna give birth whenever we want you to, like, and
Speaker 1: you're not gonna go to school. And I was seeing
Speaker 1: this thing of like any time like something becomes more
Speaker 1: for women than it becomes devalued. So now that more
Speaker 1: women are in college, now like uh, no one needs college.
Speaker 1: You don't need to college anymore. Yeah, And I was
Speaker 1: like that's so interesting. It's like they I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because then they bring us their issues
Speaker 1: of like well then we're at war and then we're
Speaker 1: depressed and we're this and it's all on us, and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, if you if you just like
Speaker 1: act different and let women lead, maybe things will change.
Speaker 2: But they can't. They can't. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like and it's also like in the aftermath of this,
Speaker 3: like Giselle pellicoat, this woman in France has become like
Speaker 3: a woman's like you know, she's become like this iconic
Speaker 3: figure of like resilience and strength and survivorship and the
Speaker 3: not all mening that's happening, Like all in the comments,
Speaker 3: it's like men won't even.
Speaker 1: Post about it. Men won't even post about it. If
Speaker 1: it's not all men, then why aren't you horrified? Like
Speaker 1: why aren't you horrified? You're singing, I can't believe men
Speaker 1: are doing it. It's like when it's like the same
Speaker 1: as cops. It's like no, no, no, no, you all know
Speaker 1: what's happening. You see it all the time, and now
Speaker 1: this huge thing, and I don't think there's one man
Speaker 1: that posted it in my whole algorithm.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm trying to think if I saw and.
Speaker 1: Maybe a gay here or there, but like I really,
Speaker 1: I have not seen any one post about it that's
Speaker 1: not a woman.
Speaker 3: And we can't even it's we don't have enough time,
Speaker 3: but we can't like maybe next week we get into
Speaker 3: Baldoni Lively.
Speaker 2: Are you following any of that? I am, but I
Speaker 2: just am exhausted. It's fine.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I literally I was on this
Speaker 3: other podcasts like months ago before this all came out, going,
Speaker 3: are they making up all of this drama between the
Speaker 3: stars so that the movie does well, and then the
Speaker 3: movie did so well, and I was like, this feels
Speaker 3: like a marketing thing. It feels like almost like the
Speaker 3: spitting thing that happened with Don't Worry Darling.
Speaker 2: You know. I was like, are they making this up?
Speaker 3: All this drama because the movie did so well and
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about the book and whatever. But now
Speaker 3: it's like reading the thing, I think it's possible to
Speaker 3: not like Blake Lively. And also she has been very
Speaker 3: mistreated by this man and the people at his production company.
Speaker 2: For me, is like he went alone, like no one
Speaker 2: was with him. Mm hmmm. Also who is he? Like?
Speaker 1: That's my thing too. It's like I cant believe. Suddenly
Speaker 1: we're like listening. I've never even heard of this man.
Speaker 3: He's from Jane the Virgin and he literally I'm like,
Speaker 3: something is a red flag about a guy buying a
Speaker 3: female written story about domestic violence and going I want
Speaker 3: to play the abuser.
Speaker 1: That's my I want to buy this movie. I want
Speaker 1: to buy the rights and I want to make I
Speaker 1: don't want to be the abuser. Like that's you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: We interview people all the time on this podcast who
Speaker 3: are like, oh, I love playing the bad guy. Sure,
Speaker 3: it's just I don't know. And then this all comes out.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know, I'm getting a weird feeling
Speaker 3: about him. But let's move on to.
Speaker 1: But the fact that he hired the same prs these
Speaker 1: bad people is like to smear women. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what we said with the Johnny Depp amber Herd Like
Speaker 1: it's it's had a very bad precedent, and it's gonna
Speaker 1: make it even harder for victims because men are more worried,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, more worried about like being with their bros
Speaker 1: Than protecting women of any kind, like they will never yeah, yeah, yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: it's disappointing. So I've been my whole break, like I've
Speaker 1: been going back and forth like penduluming from I'm gonna
Speaker 1: enjoy it all.
Speaker 2: One day when I'm.
Speaker 1: In like doing hard labor in a factory, when my
Speaker 1: career has been stripped away, I can remember that these
Speaker 1: times of relaxation and enjoyment and you know, living my dream.
Speaker 2: So I'm there and then I and then I.
Speaker 1: Spiral about the future and what will it be like
Speaker 1: starving and cold?
Speaker 3: I don't know, Well, yeah, well, what will they make us.
Speaker 3: Where are the labor camps? You know, I'm interested in
Speaker 3: all the details.
Speaker 1: So then so I go from like yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: to oh no, but I think that's ever I'm not
Speaker 1: being you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think you're being no. Everybody's trying to
Speaker 2: like be positive.
Speaker 3: It's the new year, but then also like the new
Speaker 3: year just started with like all these like tragedies and
Speaker 3: fucking bombings, and.
Speaker 1: But have one man say something to me, I will
Speaker 1: punch you in your throat, like, honestly, just fucking try me.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: This is not the year for talking to us men.
Speaker 3: It's not it. It's not it. You can't We're not
Speaker 3: allowing it. Let's let's get into what would Sister PEG
Speaker 3: do our weekly segment where we give you more information
Speaker 3: about what we talked about in today's episode. And honestly,
Speaker 3: this week I wanted to direct you, guys. I was
Speaker 3: inspired by the work of the poor deceased murder victim
Speaker 3: in SVU, who was doing contact tracing, and so I
Speaker 3: wanted to point you to this CDC article about contact tracing.
Speaker 3: I know it came up big in COVID, but this
Speaker 3: article explains like the history of contact tracing, how it
Speaker 3: helped eradicate smallpox. I think how it's helped a lot
Speaker 3: of disease control. And you know this, in these trying
Speaker 3: times where maha is abounding, I would like us to
Speaker 3: still listen to science if we can. This article even
Speaker 3: has an activity section where you can conduct a little
Speaker 3: disease transmission experiment using baking soda or vinegar.
Speaker 1: Ooh la la, I think I know what I'm doing
Speaker 1: with my kids after school. So for more info, head
Speaker 1: over to CDC dot gov. And that link will as
Speaker 1: always be posted in our show notes and on a
Speaker 1: in a story that we put up the dat this
Speaker 1: episode comes out and those are saved forever in our
Speaker 1: WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: and we will be doing baggage. Okay, you're gonna be scared.
Speaker 1: Season ten, episode eighteen. Thanks so much for listening. Happy
Speaker 1: New Year, You're all the best. We're pumped to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you've just been listening, but it
Speaker 1: feels fresh, it feels fresh, and we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back bi New Year.
Speaker 1: But we keep them getting we keep giving them to you,
Speaker 1: and that, yeah, I will say that's really cool for us,
Speaker 1: and if there are, I will say also a little reminder,
Speaker 1: if there's episodes you want us to do, message us,
Speaker 1: email us. It's all that info. Message us on our
Speaker 1: Instagram or whatever. Let us know if there's EPs you
Speaker 1: want us to do, and collar to everyone that I
Speaker 1: you know, saw at Bellhouse or at the cellar.
Speaker 2: All you guys are, We're great. Thank you guys for listening.
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 3: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 3: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 1: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. As always,
Speaker 1: please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 1: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our mixer
Speaker 1: John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to
Speaker 1: Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly gen Andrews
Speaker 1: for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia
Speaker 1: hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media dot dun