1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: Roland there and this is the Stuff you Should Know 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: and outdoors. The addition, if there ever was American master's voice, 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: kind of, it's got a little Bob Ross too. Oh. 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: Happy birthday Bob Dylan. By the way, Happy eightieth birthday 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: to one of the great legends. Speaking of great Bob's Okay, 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: I was like, how is that I propos of anything 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: he said? Bob? There's a lot of online congratulations going around. 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: That's good, So throw me in there. I know you 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: don't care about Bob Dylan, but I do. That's fine. 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: And you apparently you don't care about John York because boy, 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: you were snaughty about this. I have no problem with 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: John Muir. Well that's not exactly the only one. Other 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: people doing stuff. It's a whatever. Let's just get into this, 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: shall we. So we're talking John your today, and that 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: name might sound familiar if you're not a member of 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: this yer club. If you are remembers the club, you 20 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: probably just dropped to your knees and did the secret 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: sign when I said John Muir. I just had to 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: do it again because I said John Muir. And there 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: it goes again. Every time we say John Muir, the 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: Yer Club members have to do something weird. Or if 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: you've ever hiked any portion of the John your trail 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: that was named after him? Is that in Yosemite. It's 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: in California. Okay, Yeah, that's it's part of its in Yosemite. 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: I think I should have looked that up. Well, he is, 29 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: I asked that because he's basically synonymous with Yosemity. He 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: was a huge driving force in getting Yosemite um into 31 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: national park status and then fully becoming the Yosemite that 32 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: we understand it today. No, I haven't, and I really 33 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: wanted to because I saw some pictures online. Looks really 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: not Uh. I've been to quite a few amazing national 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: parks in the United States, and not all of them 36 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: sump in the Yellowstone um, but I've been to a 37 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: lot of them. In Yosemite is really it's really up 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: there is one of the more special places. Like it's 39 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: pretty incredible. Um. But so John mur he but he 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: played a huge role in Yosemite becoming a national park. 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: But also like it's really kind of selling short the 42 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: impact that he had on um the creation of our 43 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: national park system, but also like the idea of what 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: a national park is, what wilderness is, what needs to 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: be protected, how we protected. He was certainly not working 46 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: in a vacuum in that sense that he was kind 47 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: of tapped into this larger way of thinking, for better 48 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: or worse. But he was a huge driving force and 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: one of the reasons he was a huge driving force 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: for getting America into preserving wild spaces the face of 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: the Second Industrial Revolution was just minting money and building 52 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: railroads and just turning America into a powerhouse. Um because 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: he he walked the walk, for sure. He was He 54 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: was not just some you know Eastern you know Greenhorn 55 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: who who had never set foot in the wilderness, but 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: like the idea of it, right, he went and lived 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: it for sure. Like he did some really wild stuff 58 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: while he was living in Yosemite at the time. Yeah. 59 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: In fact, later when he was in his late thirties, 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: he was hooked up with Ralph Waldo Emerson, who was older, 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: and they really bonded. They went on a camping trip 62 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: together and um, I think Emerson was like, what you 63 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: need to do is come back to Boston, Emerson or 64 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: thora Emerson, and he said, you need to come back 65 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: to Boston and be among the intelligency advocating for this stuff. 66 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: And at the time John your was like, no way, man, 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: Like I gotta I gotta be in the woods from 68 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: Roccer dude through and through. Yeah, And Uh, it would 69 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: not be until later in his in his um kind 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: of mid to late forties, his his life was kind 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: of been two parts. It was the wild exploring and 72 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: categorizing and botanical categorization of everything he could find, and 73 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: then the mid forties on when he uh was very 74 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: much a political advocate and uh kind of did that 75 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: because he felt he had to. He would have rather 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: he had a T shirt on the whole time that 77 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: said I'd rather be camping, right. But I also saw 78 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: that he went back after a little bit of a hiatus, 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: I think like a nine month hiatus towards the end 80 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: when he finally left Yosemite for good, um, and he 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: felt like he was an intruder there, like he felt 82 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: like his time there was done and he knew that 83 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: he had to be out of there in the world 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: to advocate for it for the preservation of this area. 85 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: But also that he like he just he felt like 86 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: that chapter was closed. So interesting. Yeah, I mean that's 87 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: they They always say no, no when it's time to leave, 88 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: and I guess he did the always say that. Um 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: so let's talk about John. You're starting even younger than that. Yeah, 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: let's start with minute one. He was born at eight. 91 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: He Scottish heritage. He was born in Dunbar and came 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: to the US when he was eleven. Uh. He and 93 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: his family settled in Wisconsin, eventually in Hickory Hill on 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: an eighty acre farm near Portage. His father was a 95 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: very stern Calvinist. Uh, super religious. Yeah, like it kind 96 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: of if you ever seen the movie The Witch, sort 97 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: of along those lines where such a great punishment was 98 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: very heavy and strict. If you beat your child because 99 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: they haven't memorized Bible verse to your satisfaction, you may 100 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: be over the over the line. I think I'm not 101 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: going to go so far as to say there was 102 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: physical abuse, but there was, oh there was with his father, yes, 103 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: for that reason. Okay, I mean I saw like corporal punishment, 104 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: but like you know, these days, spanking a kid is abuse, Like, 105 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: I don't know where it fell on the meter back then, 106 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: I don't. I well, I can't say where it fell 107 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: on the meter. I can't say either. But yes, he 108 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: would be but today he would be imprisoned probably. Yeah. 109 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: But one of the reasons John Muir became John Muir's 110 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: because of his father, because his the wilderness in Wisconsin 111 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: was his refuge and his literal escape to kind of 112 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: get away from him. So who knows what would have 113 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: been you know, what would have happened had his father 114 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: not been like that? Yeah, And I don't want to 115 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: fully mischaracterize his father, just partially. Um he was, he 116 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: was very stern. But John Muir was convinced that his 117 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: father loved him still and cared about him, and it 118 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: was even maybe a little bit proud of him in 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: the ways that he deviated from what his father wanted 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: for him. And one of the main ways that he 121 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: deviated from him was in book learning. Basically, like all 122 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: his father was turned with was his his boys working 123 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: the land, farming, knowing farming, and knowing the Bible. They 124 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: didn't need to know anything else. But that wasn't enough 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: for job. You're he was basically a born tinker, a 126 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: born engineer, but he did not have free time. His 127 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: father was like, you're either working in the field, or 128 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: you're studying the Bible, or you're getting hit with the 129 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: switch by me, it's one of those three things what 130 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: you're doing for all of your waking hours. And so John, 131 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: you're hit upon the idea of expanding his waking hours. 132 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: And so as a youth, he started waking up at 133 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: one in the morning so that he could have five 134 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: hours to himself between one am and six am when 135 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: he was expected to start working on the farm, to 136 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: just read or tinker or invent. And he actually used 137 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: that to really great effects. Yeah, so he made a 138 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: lot of little inventions. Uh. There was one called an 139 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: early rising machine, which was basically a alarm clock attached 140 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: to his bed that would quite literally tip his bed 141 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: up and tip him out of it. I don't get 142 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: the feeling that he needed it because he's getting up 143 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: at one a m Anyway, his father used it. But 144 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: he eventually would go to the State Fair in Madison 145 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty with a lot of his inventions and 146 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: was sort of a boy wonder inventor. And he was 147 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: twenty two at the time. Well, but he was I 148 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: think he had invented a lot of stuff in his 149 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: teen years too though. But imagine like you know, twenty 150 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: two in the eighteen eighties or sixties, Like imagine the 151 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: middle aged guy showing up to the four h fair 152 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: being like can I enter one of the things a 153 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: big relationship in his life that would last throughout his life. Um, 154 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: he studied with a man named Ezra Carr, and his wife, 155 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: Jane car became a really big mentor for him and 156 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: exposed him to uh, you know botany basically like she 157 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: was a scientist and he loved the outdoors, but she 158 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: was like, hey, but botany is like a real science 159 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: to it, and was a really big influence in his life. 160 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: Introduced him to Emerson later like literally picked out a 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: wife for him that was like this is who you 162 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: need to marry because she can support you an hatchmaker 163 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: then too because it seems like it because they loved 164 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: each other very much, and um, she was totally fine 165 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: with his comings and goings and all that. They were 166 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: good together. Comings and goings is in going or Japan 167 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: or something that made it sound a little bit like 168 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, dalliances. No, No, nothing like that. No, As 169 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I read that, um, he left 170 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: Yosemite at one point because of unwanted attention from a woman. Oh, 171 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: he's like he was camping in this lady hiked by 172 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: and looked at him, and he's like, I'm out. He Well, 173 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: he wasn't interesting dude, and that he was a bit 174 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: like a hermit, but apparently also really enjoyed these one 175 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: on one conversations with the people he would meet. Yeah, 176 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: he was like he was kind of build as a 177 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: wild man of the wilderness, but he very much craved 178 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: and needed human interaction as well. It's yeah, very odd. 179 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: It's usually one way or the other in that sense, 180 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So he's working eventually the industrial part 181 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: of his life because he was such a good tinker 182 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: and engineer. He got work, uh, doing stuff like that. 183 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: And in March of eighteen sixty seven, he's working at 184 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: a carriage part shop in Indianapolis. His h and all pierced, 185 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: like literally went into his eye and pierced it, and 186 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: for a while he was blind in both eyes because 187 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: of that. It was such a bad wound that his 188 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: other eye was like I'm out too, Yeah, just because 189 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: I feel bad for my buddy over there. Sympathy blindness. Uh, 190 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: and this was a very monumental injury because after this 191 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: he was like, you know what, forget this stuff. I 192 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: don't want to ever be around another machine with moving 193 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: parts again. And I just want to walk. He said 194 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: that he bade a do you to all my mechanical inventions, 195 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: determined to devote the rest of my life to the 196 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: study of all the inventions of God. Yeah, he stayed religious, 197 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: we should point out he was. It's not like because 198 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: of his dad he went to atheist or something like. 199 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: In all of his writings and talking about the natural world, 200 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: it's all ezekiel, ezekiel, ezekiel. Well, it's all very spiritual 201 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: and God oriented. He was like, this is my church 202 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: though exactly the outdoors, which I can, you know, respect 203 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: on a certain level. He he he loved creation with 204 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: the capital C. Sure so um. When he's wandering, like 205 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: he really wandered. He was kind of a Johnny apples 206 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: E type almost. He walked from Indiana, where the I 207 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: guess he recovered from his all injury, um, all the 208 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: way down to cedar Key, Florida on the Gulf Coast. 209 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: It's like a thousand miles. He just walked down there 210 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: and pretty quickly too caught malaria and cedar ki almost died, recovered, 211 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: sailed to the Cuba from there, sailed on to Panama 212 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: from there, and made it all the way to San Francisco. 213 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: And apparently there's a story that may or may not 214 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: be true where he got to San Francisco. Was immediately 215 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: overwhelmed by this the hustle and bustle and city, and said, 216 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: where's the how what's the fastest way out of the city. 217 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: I think that's the deal. He got right out of 218 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: there and the guy, the guy he asked, said, well, 219 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: where you want to go? He said, anywhere wild and 220 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: he pointed him in the direction of Yosemite, and apparently 221 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: walked three hundred biles to Yosemite and fell in love. 222 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: That's right. And on the way out of town, someone selled, 223 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,239 Speaker 1: you don't forget the rice RONEI it's the San Francisco 224 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: treat and he went, what sure, Jerry's like, Jerry like 225 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: disgusted by the joke. Yeah, he split immediately to get 226 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: out there and went to California and uh, he's in California. Well, 227 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: we went to Yosemite. He went to Yosemite, but he 228 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: walked right, and he walked because for a very specific reason. 229 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: He walked because that was the most intimate way to 230 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: see the botanic and and uh and write about the 231 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: botanic world around him. Yeah, because this was a time 232 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: when you could be like remember our bone Moor's episode 233 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: that you hooked us up with who Bone Wars, Like 234 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: this is a time where like you or I could 235 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: just start studying books and be like, Okay, I'm a paleontologist, Okay, 236 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm a botanist, Okay, I'm a geologist. All this stuff. 237 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: These these fields were so young that anybody who had 238 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: like half a brain and like a pencil and a 239 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: piece of paper could basically contribute to the field. And 240 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: that's what I guess he was doing along the way. 241 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: He definitely did that in Yosemity. Oh yeah, he did 242 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: that everywhere he went. And it's a good lesson to 243 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: Like I remember in when Emily and I lived in 244 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: l A. I had a couple of times where I 245 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: had to drive to my mechanic and leave my car 246 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: And this was pre ride share services and taxis were 247 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: basically non existent in l A. So I would walk 248 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: these long distances home and you you just you notice everything, 249 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: like these neighborhoods that I drove around every day all 250 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: the time, and you would just notice, like can study 251 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: every house, every mailbox, every driveway, and it's really just 252 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: a lesson to people to like to walk places when 253 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: you can. There's a group in the UK I think 254 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: called Amblers. Yeah, we talked about the months, okay, and 255 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: they're they're basically they I think their motto is there 256 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: dedicated the idea that humans human locomotion should be no 257 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: more than like three and a half miles an hour 258 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: at the speed you walk, you know, and then that 259 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: that's how you take in everything. It's absolutely true. Yeah, 260 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: that's my two favorite speeds or two and a half 261 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: miles an hour and like the expressways, right, yeah, what 262 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: do the two? Um? So John mirror makes it to Yosemity. 263 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: Have we taken a break yet? I think this is 264 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: a great place for a break, don't you. He's entering 265 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: Yosemite for the first time. Everybody imagine it. Okay, So 266 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: John mirrors in Yosemite and he decides that he needs 267 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of work. Um. I think he stayed 268 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: the first time for like ten days. And a lot 269 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: of people who know something about John Murror and especially 270 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: associated with Yosemite in the National Parks basically think he 271 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: showed up in Yosemite and never left and lived and 272 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: died there. That's not true. He lived there for about 273 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: a six year period, I think, Yeah, eighteen seventy six 274 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: years of his life. Yeah, so eighteen sixty eight to 275 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four I leave, Yeah, and those were a 276 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: very like California just totally rocked his world once he 277 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: got out there, Yeah, because he was living in Indianapolis. 278 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: So I mean, basically anywhere would rock your world. But 279 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: imagine showing up to California in the mid nineteenth century 280 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: or late nineteenth century and seeing it. Yeah, and especially 281 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: if you've I remember when I did my big out 282 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: west trip years ago with my best friend over like 283 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: four months in the summer, driving through Utah and Arizona 284 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: and everywhere. It's just so blazing hot. And then when 285 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: you drive over, especially southern California, California, and you drive 286 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: over that mountain range, it's like someone turned on the 287 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: air conditioning, and I just remember thinking, like, man, imagine 288 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: what it must have been like for westward expansion when 289 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: they finally got into the l A Basin, We're just like, 290 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: whoa in the l A Basin? Yeah, I mean you 291 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: go with that mountain range and it's just the Pacific 292 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: Ocean breezes are just kind of lock been there. Wow, 293 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: it's really hot on the other side then high Yeah, 294 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: like Death Valley. I'm not I'm not up on my 295 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: California geography. I think Germany's landlock can right now. It's 296 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: very lovely and cool near the coast, so um so yeah. 297 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: I can imagine what it must have been like as 298 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: like a nineteenth century traveler or something like that. But 299 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: um he uh. When John Muir got there, as I 300 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: was saying, um he, he stayed for like ten days. 301 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: I was like, I need some money, and he went back. 302 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: I guess he hitched a ride or else, walked back, 303 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: got some more money, and then he came back to 304 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: some He's like, I'm staying here for a while. So 305 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: he got work in Yosemite as a sheep herder. One 306 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: of his first jobs was hurting two thousand sheep up 307 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: into the sierras. Of it. He hated it. He learned 308 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: to hate sheep. He called them hoofed locusts. And he 309 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: started to despise sheep because he thought that they had an, 310 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: um a disproportionately bad impact on the natural surroundings. Just 311 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: eight they did. They kind of have a Yosemite to 312 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: a large degree, right, So he came to kind of 313 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: see livestock as an extension of human occupation of these 314 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: wild lands and how detrimental it wasn't It really occurred 315 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: to him during this first little, you know, a few 316 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: months period where he was a sheep arter. Yeah. And 317 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: I think also the horse and the horses that led 318 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: people on expeditions and stuff, they also overgrazed and the 319 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: cattle overgrazed, and they were logging. And Yosemite was I 320 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: think it was under the the care of the state 321 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: of California. It's a state park at this point because 322 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: it had been gifted by well, not gifted, but it 323 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: was a land grant from Abraham Lincoln in the middle 324 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: of the Civil War to California. He said, I'll tell 325 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: you what I'm gonna do for you, You take Yosemite. 326 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: But it was it was really mismanaged and just um, 327 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean, compared to what they're doing now, was in 328 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: a pretty bad state. Yeah, which is one reason why 329 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: John Muir was pushing for it to become a national park, 330 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: so that it would be under the care of the 331 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: federal government, who hopefully would enforce the laws of preservation 332 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: a lot more than California had. So he shows up 333 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: in Yosemite, he starts shepherding. He but more than anything, 334 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: the thing that he became known for was these jaunts 335 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: where he would become like the first white man to 336 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: scale Cathedral Rock. Um, he would like not all these 337 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: fossil formations and take samples of them and send him 338 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: back to like the newly forming University of California. UM, 339 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: he would like submit botany like descriptions like he was 340 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: just basically it's like exploring Yosemite and documenting the whole 341 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: place while at the same time, um taking notes for 342 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: what would become a series of like books, essays. Like 343 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: he really made his name as like a writer, Like 344 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: he made a career for himself just as a writer. 345 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: We think of him as like this concept asianist naturalist, 346 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: and that's where he was coming from. But at the 347 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: time he was a successful writer. And after he left Yosemite, Yeah, 348 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: I mean another big kind of central relationship for him 349 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: was a man named Robert Underwood Johnson, who um was 350 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: the editor of Century Magazine, and Century Magazine was very 351 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: much a sort of a progressive naturalist rag and he 352 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: uh and and we should say that this, you know, 353 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: we're not like this is the most interesting parts of 354 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: his life. Like he also worked for a decade or 355 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: more on once he got married. He married a woman 356 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: named Louis Luisa Wanda stren Cel in eighteen eighty and 357 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: her family had had a couple of daughters, Wanda and Helen, 358 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: and her family had a fruit farm, fruit ranch, and 359 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: he lived there in Martinez, California, UM and kind of 360 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: quit doing his adventuring for a full decade and ran 361 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: this farm and worked as a farmer. So all this 362 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: stuff was going on, and then Robert Underwood Johnson basically 363 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: doggedly pursued uh mirror and said, listen, man, you gotta 364 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: we need you. You gotta start writing again, because you're 365 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: the foremost naturalist in the country right now according to 366 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: me and only me, and we need you to start 367 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: writing some stuff and start pushing for political change. And 368 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: he was working on this farm this whole time, and 369 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: eventually he was like, all right, you know what do 370 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: you what do you got for me? So the reason 371 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: Johnson saw him out was because he had made a 372 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: name for himself even while he was still living in Yosemite, 373 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: like you can kind of look at mirrors life like, 374 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: he went and got all of the experience he could 375 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: possibly need in these six years living basically the that 376 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: whole stretch in Yosemite, and then went in like and 377 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: use that experience. Is that like a nomad land reference? 378 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: Living deliberately? Now, wasn't that throw Oh yeah, I went 379 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: to the woods deliberate deliberately Living deliciously is from the 380 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: which um. But but it was basically like, imagine if 381 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: like you had like a crazy six year period in 382 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: your twenties and then you spent the rest of your 383 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: life exploiting that, writing about it, talking about it, making 384 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: a name for yourself, being a cause celeb from that experience. 385 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: That's that's basically what he did. Yeah. I feel like 386 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that did that. Yeah, who else? 387 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I well, there is a great example. 388 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: He went and lived at Walden for what a year? 389 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: And that was like we're still talking about that guy today, 390 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's true. And I've even heard that 391 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: Walden Pond was like town was right there. Yeah, it's 392 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: like the the pizza hutt next to the pyramids, that's right, 393 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: kind of like that. But yeah, so me're. Another big 394 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: important relationship that he made was with a president named 395 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt, and THEO Theodore Roosevelt is known for um 396 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: the two million acres of federal land that he acted, 397 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: among other things, but Mure was a big reason why. 398 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Roosevelt was into preservation anyway. It's not like 399 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: Mure came in and completely like change his mind about everything. 400 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: But Roosevelt knew about him and and quite literally said, 401 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: I I would like you to take me camping in 402 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: Yosemite for four days. He said, just the two of us. 403 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: Didn't they have to like give the the um Secret 404 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: Service the slip? Well, I think there was secret service there, 405 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: because apparently they just never shut up in the Secret 406 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: Service people, and like one of their journals said, like 407 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: these two like won't shut up. All they're doing is 408 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: just yammering at each other about the woods. So I 409 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: don't know they gave him the slip or not, but 410 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: I know that originally their request was the Roosevelt was 411 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: like I don't want anyone around, man, I just want 412 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: you and I to get out there in the woods 413 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: and like talk about this stuff. Yeah, like wax mustache 414 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: to wax mustache, that's right. So he works hand in 415 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: hand with Roosevelt to do a lot of work. I 416 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: think the first or one of the first national monuments 417 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: they established was Petrified Force and Arizona, which um he 418 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: went out there and was like, oh, this place is 419 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: kind of cool. He moved there for his daughter's health apparently, 420 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: and while he was there, he's like, oh, there's a 421 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: petrifive force. I'll just start submitting fossil. Yeah. He just 422 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: did the same thing there as an older man that 423 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: he did earlier at Yosemite. Yeah. And I think the 424 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: deal with Yosemite was because it was a state park. 425 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: The actual Yosemite Valley wasn't part of the park boundaries. 426 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: That Mariposa Grove of those giant Sequoia trees wasn't actually 427 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: part of the boundary, and Muro was like, man, this 428 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: this is what needs to be a part of the 429 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: boundary more than anything. Yeah, So that was one of 430 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: the first things that UM, the Sierra Club took up. 431 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: It was like basically their first initiative. And John Muir's 432 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: synonymous with the Sierra Club because he was the first president. 433 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: He was for I think this who basically twenty years 434 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: or something like that. He died, Yeah, he died into 435 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: and he became the president of security Sierra Club in 436 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: eighteen nine two. So um, he helped found this organization 437 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: that's still around today. Then one of the first initiatives, 438 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: one of their first pushes, was to get the Yosemite 439 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: Valley and the what's the name of the forest, the 440 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: Mariposa Mariposa Forest, the Secoya Grove included into the boundaries 441 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: of the National Park. And they were finally successful in 442 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: nine six and from that success, they just started having 443 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: more and more successes and eventually expanded because initially they 444 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: were focused on the West basically because that's where all 445 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: these people who founded the Club lived and that's what 446 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: they cared about. They said, well, there's other places where 447 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: this battle needs to be fought, and they became this 448 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: national advocacy group that will sue your pants off if 449 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: you try to mess with the National Park. Yeah, they 450 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: opened an office in d c and sixty three and 451 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: like you said, went off, you know, Alaska, Florida very 452 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: key in trying to get things like the Clean Air 453 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: Act pass, the Wilderness Act, the e p A created 454 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and UH, Alaska's kind of key too 455 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: in mirrors life because he he gets engaged to Louis 456 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: and I think in those days you kind of got 457 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 1: just got engaged and got married pretty quickly. Like there 458 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: there were there weren't these long drawn out engagements, but 459 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: there wasn't his case, because he was like, all right, 460 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: we're engaged. You're you are a good match, thank you, 461 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: Geane carr Um. But I'm gonna go to Alaska now, 462 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: And he did. He went to Alaska for a period. 463 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: And if you think Alaska is like, you know, uncharted 464 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: and wild now, like, imagine what it was like back then. 465 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure his diary was like what no snakes? Amazing? 466 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: What the heck is this place? But like I said, 467 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: they eventually did get married and have those daughters, and 468 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: she very sadly passed away in nineteen o five of cancer. Yeah, 469 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: and he um like he had to go home to 470 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: be with her when she died, like he was away 471 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: when she was partially, UH for part of the time 472 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: when she was sick. Well, that's sad. It's very very sad. 473 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: I guess that explains why he and his daughters were 474 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: the only ones that moved to Arizona for his daughter's health. Then, 475 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: I guess I think, so, okay, that's sad because she 476 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: supposedly was well known for her Um. I saw that 477 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: she was a very gentle person, a very sweet person. Yeah, 478 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: and very supportive of his efforts. Like what's truly a 479 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: good match. She loved the wilderness and nature and God 480 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: and all those things. Oh, she loved God. Don't get 481 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: her started on God. She would take her second break. 482 00:27:33,119 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: I think so. All right, So we're talking about John 483 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: mur in the Sierra Club Chuck and and it's really 484 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: hard to understate what mirror impact. No, yes, um, what 485 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: impact he had, because like I said, he was a 486 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: successful writer. He was really good at writing. And also 487 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: he did really crazy stuff like riding an avalanche. Um. 488 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: There's a very famous essay that he wrote called the 489 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: Windstorm in the Forest, UM that he describes what it 490 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: was like to climb up the top of a pine 491 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: tree and hang on for hours during a storm in 492 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: the Sierras, and how awesome nuts it was. Um, and 493 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: and like just basically saying like this, this is real, 494 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: this is nature, Like you could if you go out 495 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: to these places, you could do this stuff. But this, 496 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: this is not going to be around if we keep 497 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: building railroads through these places where we build dams, or 498 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: we let livestock just graze wherever, like we an just 499 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: not do something about. It has to be preserved and protected. 500 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: And he inspired people during his lifetime and long after 501 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: his lifetime as well. Yeah, I think the I watched 502 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: a pretty cool American Masters documentary on this, and um, 503 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: this one guy with historian was like this was a 504 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: little bit of macho involved, like he was this great naturalist. 505 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 1: Not to take anything away, but like riding the avalanche 506 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: and like climbing a tree during a snowstorm at the 507 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: top or a rainstorm at the top of the mountain. 508 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: He said, there was a little like makismo involved in that. 509 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: Like yeah, or or body from Point Break? Wait was 510 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: that Patrick? Um? Yeah? Or was it Kiano can Reis? 511 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: That was Johnny Utah my friend. Oh that's right, so 512 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: Bodie was or was that Flee from the Peppers? But 513 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: it was actually Anthony Keti Ketas that was in Point 514 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: Break sure he may have been in it, but Ketis 515 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: was one of the Ruffians. I got his foot shot off. 516 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: I think no, no, I know he was the leader 517 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: of the Bad Guys Surfer Club, but I think Fleet 518 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: was in that club. I think, well, what was he 519 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: naked except for a sock on this? Probably pants? Pants 520 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: made of Teddy bears? Do we take our second break? Yeah, 521 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: we just didn't. So but I was leading up to something. 522 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: So we've been talking about what a great guy John 523 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: Muir was and that's how he was, um looked at 524 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: and respected for decades and decades, a century actually more. 525 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: Um he was looked at a great man. Maybe a 526 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: little macho, sure, but that's forgivable. If that much he's 527 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: moo is directed towards riding a tree in a storm 528 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: rather than you know, picking bar fights in Lisbon or 529 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: something like that. You know, thank you so um. When 530 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: we did our episode on Girl Scouts, I talked about how, 531 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: like Juliette Gordon Lowe was one of the rare historic 532 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: figures from a century or so ago that you were like, 533 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: and actually she holds up today. John Miror is not 534 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: that same way. There there's a real um. I guess 535 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: a mia Kolpa sort of a reckoning. Yeah, that's a 536 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: great way to put it. That's exactly what it was. 537 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: A reckoning by the Sierra Club not too many years ago, 538 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: where they basically said, hey, John here was great in 539 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: all these ways, he was also pretty racist. And yeah, 540 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: he was a product of his time and the way 541 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: of thinking, which we'll talk about, um, but he was 542 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: still pretty racist. And in fact, the whole basis of 543 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: the National Park system was built on this racist ideology, 544 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: and it's we're still basically looking at it the same 545 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: way today. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because the Sierra 546 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: Club even acknowledged that our first our first years as 547 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: a as a as a group was based on the 548 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: notion of white people trying to protect the land that 549 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: white people wanted to hike through and enjoys as campers 550 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: and recreationalists. And in his earlier years, I think kind 551 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: of through his thirties, up until his thirties, he had 552 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: sort of bad things to say about people of color, 553 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: whether it was indigenous people's uh in the United States 554 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: or black people, and um used disparaging language towards them, 555 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: which the whole thing with the indigenous people's is really 556 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: counterintuitive because they were so aligned with his philosophies of 557 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: how you and habit a land and share a land 558 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: and use it and don't abuse it, and you know, uh, 559 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: it really doesn't make much sense. And supposedly he I 560 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: think in his forties he started to come around, especially 561 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: when he went to Alaska, because they um indigenous people 562 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: served as his guides and he started to learn more 563 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: from them, and I think things turned around a bit 564 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah. But uh, the Sierra Club, you know, 565 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time over the past few years 566 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: trying to sort of bring this delight and not whitewash 567 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: it and say, hey, this is what it was. No, 568 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: they and they did a very good job of it. 569 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. So um. I was saying that 570 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: he was a product of his time, and he very 571 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: much was. There was an idea before his time, say 572 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: the eighteen thirties, when the West was like the frontier 573 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: and the the United States didn't really need it at 574 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: the time, where there was this view of the Native 575 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: American as this this um noble race that was being 576 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: encroached upon by humanity and that we we needed to 577 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: preserve this wild area. This was decades before John Muir 578 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: came around this idea that we needed to preserve the stuff, 579 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: but we also needed to preserve Native Americans and their 580 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: culture in this land that were preserved. So the initial 581 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: idea for national parks was that the Native Americans would 582 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: live on this land just as they always had, and 583 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: it would be there land, but it would also be 584 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: America's national parks that would be protected. And then the 585 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: railroad came, and all of a sudden, the US started 586 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: expanding further and further west, faster and faster, and now 587 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: the Native Americans weren't this group of people over there 588 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: that you could kind of idealize. They were now in 589 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: the way of this westward expansion. So racism toward them 590 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: went through the roof. And now there was this idea 591 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: that Native American culture was already dead, that the best 592 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: of the culture had died in the last decades and centuries, 593 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: and that it was all the white man's fault. But 594 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: what's done is done, and so let's just make this 595 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: decline into extinction as comfortable as possible and preserved Native 596 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: Americans not on our national park land, but we'll just 597 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: make reservations for them to go over there and just 598 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: die off and it's sad, but that's just the way 599 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: it is, and that that is the mentality that John 600 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: Muir became a conservationist with in the larger zeitgeis that 601 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: that you no humans should be on the land, but 602 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: in particular Native Americans shouldn't be there anyway because this 603 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: is our white people land. Yeah, and you know what, 604 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm glad to see her club and people in general 605 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: are more comfortable, uh, calling this stuff what it is now. 606 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: Like even in that American Masters, that was one line 607 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: where they said, like, you know, early on he you know, 608 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: he he, I don't even remember what they said. I 609 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: don't even think they said disparaging, but like he said, 610 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: some things were not so nice for Native American Indians 611 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: is what they said while he was saying yeah, And 612 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: then it was just very quickly like they wouldn't dare 613 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: say that he had racist points of view. Uh, he 614 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: just didn't say stuff like that. But I think now 615 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: people are more comfortable with saying using that word and saying, 616 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, this is how he was for a time 617 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: in his life, and we gotta we gotta reckon with 618 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: that because it's part of our history of of a 619 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: of a foundation for sure, and not just tim like 620 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: the national parks were they they evicted people and not 621 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: just Native Americans, depending on where you were out West, 622 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: Grand Canyon, Petrified Forest, Yosemite, Yellowstone, all of them required 623 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: forced evictions to basically create this pristine area that was 624 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: never pristine and free of human settlement or occupation or use. 625 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: That's they created that to create the national parks. And 626 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 1: they used like this idea. There was this um I've 627 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: read this really interesting article dude from two thousand seven, 628 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: so it would have been groundbreaking at the time. It's 629 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: called Ethnic Cleansing and America's Creation of National Parks by 630 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: Isaac Cantor and uh. Cantor points out that like the 631 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: people who were setting up and promoting these first national 632 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: parks like Yellowstone in Yosemite would say, there were never 633 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: Native Americans here anyway, they were all these were all 634 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: they were afraid of spirits in this you know, in 635 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: this canyon, so they never hung out here anyway. But 636 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: by the way, uh, can you send some military to 637 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: protect us from Native america can attacks while we're setting 638 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: up this national park? So it's which is yeah, yeah, basically, 639 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: but that's a really interesting It was a really good 640 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: read and it was very eye opening, especially for two 641 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: thousand seven. Uh. So, I guess in closing, we want 642 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: to quickly mention one of his last what he was 643 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: actually trying to do when he died and and failed 644 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: at doing, was preventing the damning of the hetch Hetchy 645 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: Valley uh in Yosemite. And basically what happened in nineteen 646 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: o six was there was a devastating earthquake and fire 647 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: that destroyed San Francisco, which I'd love to cover that 648 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: as its own episode at some point, basically completely destroyed 649 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: it h and everywhere. And one of the reasons that 650 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: the fire destroyed it was because their water uh uh 651 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: what do you call them water water people? Their water system, 652 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: I'll just say that um was destroyed by the earthquake. 653 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: So San Francisco said, we need a better, more reliable 654 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 1: a water supply, and we can get it in Yosemite 655 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: with the hetch Hetchy Valley if we damn that thing up. 656 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: And he was like, you can't do this, It's in 657 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: a national park. And he lost that effort, but he 658 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: made such a stink uh he was He was basically like, 659 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other ways you can get water. 660 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: You're just doing this because it's easiest and cheapest, But 661 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: you can get water to San Francisco in other ways. Uh. 662 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: And like I said, he was not successful. He did 663 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: lose that battle, um and then passed away of pneumonia 664 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: at the age of seventy six and nineteen fourteen. Um. 665 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: But he they haven't There hasn't been a damn built 666 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: in on national park lands since then. Yeah. Because that battle, 667 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: even though he lost it, it really raised awareness and 668 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: it also kind of set a certain mindset in people 669 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: in the public's mind that now you don't really mess 670 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: with national parks. And I guess we had to lose 671 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: one to to to get to that point. That's right. 672 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: Are you got anything else? I got nothing else? So 673 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: that's job mirror for you. Everybody. Go check out his 674 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: writings and read about him and uh see what you think. 675 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: And also don't forget ethnic cleansing in the creation of 676 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: America's national parks. Good stuff. Uh. And since I said 677 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: good stuff, of course it's time for listening. Man. Uh. 678 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: This is on the Cleft Palettes from Malcolm that's new 679 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: in Calgary that came out today Alberta, Canada. Usa, North 680 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: America Earth. Hey guys, been an avid listener since my 681 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: friend introduced me when I very hungover car right home 682 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: from an Iron Maiden concert about five years ago. Nice, 683 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: it's a great way to get turned onto the show. Yeah. 684 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: I thought I'd write in to share my experience with 685 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: my son's cleft pallet after listening to the episode. My 686 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: son was born with a midwife in June nineteen and 687 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: had a ton of trouble breastfeeding, which in hindsight was 688 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: because he couldn't get any suction. A couple of days later, 689 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: the midwife noticed what she thought was a cleft in 690 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: the soft palette. We took our newborn to the hospital 691 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: and she was right. We became regulars at the Alberta 692 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: Children's Hospitals Cleft Clinic in Calgary, Alberta, and two years later, 693 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: my son has had a surgery to repair his clap 694 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,919 Speaker 1: pallett and another to put tubes in his ear drums parentheses, 695 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: socialized health care is the best. The tubes are common 696 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: with clefts because the muscles that drain the ear canals 697 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: don't form properly, so the tubes allow fluid to leave 698 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: the ear canals. One thing you didn't mention was the 699 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: byfed uvela, which I have. It's related to clefts that 700 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: the muscles don't quite form properly and it makes her 701 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,479 Speaker 1: uvula look more like a w than a tear drop. 702 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: I saw that in research. I forgot to mention I 703 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: did too. I can't believe I forgot that. We are 704 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: currently visiting a geneticist at the Hospitality of Cleft in 705 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: my bibid uvula. I'm sorry byfed uvela are genetically related, 706 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: but I think the answer is probably yes. Love listening 707 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: you guys look for it each episode. That is Malcolm. Nice, 708 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: nice name, Malcolm. Um, that's great, Thank you very much 709 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: for sharing. And also rock on mat. Yeah that's your name, Malcolm. Yeah, 710 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: it's my middle name. It's a great name. Me and 711 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: my friends they have the night we're hanging out, Me 712 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: and Emily and Justina Melissa. We're having a few drinks 713 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: and we decided to start only going by our middle names. 714 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: So it was Alex, Dawn, Renee and Wayne were hanging 715 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: out for the rest of the night. We were just 716 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: cracking jokes. Like someone did say something to be like 717 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: that is so Alex. I don't know if it's gonna stick. 718 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: But it was really weird to think of myself as 719 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: a Wayne. That could be a one night thing. I 720 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: think that one night, I think sticks. I will be 721 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: really surprised. I think we determined. I determined that you 722 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: don't have a relation to your middle name, like an 723 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: emotional connection. If when you hear that name out loud, 724 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: you don't have any reaction, Like if I hear someone 725 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: say a Chuck or someone else's Chuck, I go oh. 726 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: But if I hear someone say Wayne or whatever, I don't, 727 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: I don't even doesn't even register you, Like that name 728 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: is dead to me. Yeah, that sounds about right right. 729 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: All right, that's so Malcolm. Well, if you want to 730 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: get in touch with this, like Malcolm did not me 731 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: the other welcome one in the middle, you can send 732 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: us an email like Malcolm did to Stuff podcast iHeart 733 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production 734 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 735 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 736 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,240 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.