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Speaker 1: Ah, beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community,

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Speaker 1: soft rep dot com, on time on target and look

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Speaker 1: who is back in front of a They can't book

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Speaker 1: because we're not on here. Man, Well, listen to is

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Speaker 1: across from the table. It's been as you were thinking,

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Speaker 1: think four months from hearing yes, pretty much like the

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Speaker 1: main voice on this podcast, and I feel like, excuse me. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to do this TV show that's supposed

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Speaker 1: to take like six weeks to film it, and it

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Speaker 1: ended up taking like four months. So I was away

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Speaker 1: much longer than I had anticipated. And believe me, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be back here with you guys, but I

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Speaker 1: was all over the place. This fall has been totally insane,

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Speaker 1: just nuts, off the wall. I knew it was going

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Speaker 1: to be off the wall the second I signed up

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Speaker 1: to do that television show, because we're doing a TV

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Speaker 1: show that it actually premiered, uh two day. It's called

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Speaker 1: Tesla's Death Ray a murder Declassified on the Discovery Channel.

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Speaker 1: I saw the first episode on on UM when it aired,

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Speaker 1: and I mean it looks really good. That's had I

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Speaker 1: guess most of this audience did too. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I hope. So, I mean it's worth going and checking out.

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Speaker 1: It's on the Discovery Channel or you can use the

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Speaker 1: Discovery Channel go app to view it also if you want. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then, uh, I got married in mid October. Huge,

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Speaker 1: of course, and you are in Yeah, I should say

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Speaker 1: it was like for for a wedding that you planned,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got engaged during the summer and then

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Speaker 1: you had the wedding in early fall. Yeah, mid October,

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Speaker 1: mid October. So I thought it was a really well

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Speaker 1: done wedding for something that you planned pretty quickly. That

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Speaker 1: was that was mostly Benny's doing. I was expecting it

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Speaker 1: to be like a really small, low key wedding and

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Speaker 1: it was not. Um. Yeah, we wanted it to be

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Speaker 1: a small, low key wedding. UM. And we I mean,

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Speaker 1: we didn't invite like everybody we knew, UM, try to

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Speaker 1: kind of keep it like a close knit group of people. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Benny's family from Italy wanted to come

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Speaker 1: in of course, so she has a good sized family.

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Speaker 1: Um my family was there not a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: people on my side of the family, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we're a small family. I guess you could say, you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of ants, a couple of uncles, my sister, um, mom, stepdad,

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Speaker 1: you know. So. But then for with friends, I mean

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Speaker 1: ended up being what a hundred and fifty people? Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm not even be in the location everything. It was

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Speaker 1: really nice at the water Club, Yeah, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was super nice. Um. Jim West gave an epic speech

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Speaker 1: that was what about like thirty minutes Smoky Man, Smokie

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Speaker 1: was my best man. What did what did Benny do

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Speaker 1: with that rock that he brought? Because he said something

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Speaker 1: about this being a stepping stone and then he brought

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Speaker 1: a literal stone to pause and reflect. Yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: we I have that. It's in my apartment because I

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Speaker 1: was like, what does he expect Benny to carry this

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Speaker 1: around during her wedding? Well, you know, if we had

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Speaker 1: a garden, we could put it in there, but we

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Speaker 1: don't because we live in New York City. Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Smokey gave an awesome speech. I was super

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Speaker 1: happy to have him there. Um. A couple of friends

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Speaker 1: of mine, UM came in. Um, guys I knew from

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Speaker 1: the army. Um, good buddies of mine. Um, it was

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Speaker 1: just pretty wild. Absolutely well. I'm psyched to have the

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Speaker 1: Odissean was there. Yeah, this is true. I'm psyched to

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Speaker 1: have ed Derek coming on and am I saying his

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Speaker 1: name right? I think rock but we could would ask

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Speaker 1: him for sure. I did actually speak to him yesterday,

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Speaker 1: but great photographer and author. Uh. One thing I was

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Speaker 1: going to ask you about is like on the intro,

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Speaker 1: we see we say special ops news and straight talk

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Speaker 1: with the guys in the community. I feel I do

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Speaker 1: a pretty good interview, but when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: news and the special ops community, I will admit, when

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Speaker 1: you're not here, the show is lacking a bit because

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Speaker 1: there's no one else on the ground going to the

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Speaker 1: d m Z and Korea, going to the Philippines and

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Speaker 1: meeting with generals like I'm not able to bring that

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Speaker 1: to the show. So I wanted to ask you, like,

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Speaker 1: what is the biggest story that has been you know,

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Speaker 1: has gone uncovered by the mainstream media. It might be

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Speaker 1: on the site, but we probably haven't covered the show

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Speaker 1: because I leave a lot of that to you and

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Speaker 1: you haven't been here. I mean, there are there are

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different stories UM within the Special Operations

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Speaker 1: community that have gone down over the last few months. UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the big ones was the Siege of Morrow

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Speaker 1: We ended in the Philippines, UM which the American Special

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Speaker 1: Forces and Special Operations guys played a UM ancillary role

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Speaker 1: in supporting the Filipino troops. UM So that happened and

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Speaker 1: UM I interviewed the Philippines SOCOM commander, General Pomona um

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Speaker 1: via email. I met him in person when I was

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Speaker 1: in the Philippines, UM, but I put a picture up

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Speaker 1: with him, right, Yeah. I interviewed him again about MARROWI

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Speaker 1: because what happened was General Pomonig was put in as

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Speaker 1: the UM, first as an advisor to the campaign in

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Speaker 1: marrow E. Then he became UM the UM officer in

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Speaker 1: charge of the battle the battle space right there, and

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Speaker 1: then from there he became they put him in charge

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Speaker 1: of the entire Marrowe operation. So he's the one who

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Speaker 1: actually brought the siege to an end, him and his men.

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Speaker 1: Of course, UM so I interviewed him and I wrote

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Speaker 1: an article I think it's called What Really Happened in

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Speaker 1: marrow We that's on soft wrap, and it's a really

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Speaker 1: good UM post mortem of how things went down, um

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Speaker 1: and some really interesting comparisons to missul Aleppo. Isis all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Um, So that happened. The um

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Speaker 1: ambush in Niger happened, of which we spoke about a

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Speaker 1: little bit. The Special Forces O d A that got

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Speaker 1: ambushed over there. I think that happened while you were

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Speaker 1: still on the show. No, I was, because I was

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Speaker 1: working on that story on the set of the television

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Speaker 1: show on myself in between shoots, working on that story

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Speaker 1: to talk into sources. We have talked about it, but

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Speaker 1: I wonder what you and we um we did uh

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Speaker 1: some I mean I too our own horn a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I think we did really good coverage of what happened

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Speaker 1: there and cut through the bullshit. Um there. The media

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Speaker 1: just said some absolutely atrocious things speculating um about la

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Speaker 1: David Johnson, one of the American soldiers, that he was

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Speaker 1: captured alive, UM, that he was tortured, that he was mutilated,

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Speaker 1: that you know, war crimes would committed, just like insane speculation.

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Speaker 1: There's even a CNN guy like talking about like what

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Speaker 1: was really in the coffin they buried, just absolutely discussed

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Speaker 1: and comments that people were making based off of speculation. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I think we kind of kept things down to earth. Um.

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Speaker 1: The really unfortunate thing was, from what I remember, that

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Speaker 1: story for weeks went relatively uncovered until someone asked the

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Speaker 1: president about it, and then the story became has Obama

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Speaker 1: spoken to the parents and then Trump spoken to the parents? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I said Obama. Wow, I'm forgetting

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Speaker 1: who the president is. Mean, there's a huge difference, uh,

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Speaker 1: stuff from stop pushing your liberal agenda? He has Trump

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Speaker 1: spoken to the parents, and then when he did, you know,

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Speaker 1: did he make appropriate comments? And I feel like the

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Speaker 1: actual ambush was completely under report. The big story became

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Speaker 1: Trump's phone call. Yeah, it becomes like a professional wrestling story,

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Speaker 1: you know, like who talked to more families? Obama or Trump? Like, dude,

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Speaker 1: is that really what you took away from this? Like

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Speaker 1: we got men in Africa, um, who are trying to

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Speaker 1: stop al Qaeda and other Islamist groups from spreading through

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Speaker 1: Central Africa and then they would spread elsewhere. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a really critical facet of the war on terror. Like

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's phone call, I mean, I don't care. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's nice to call the families, of course,

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Speaker 1: and the families should be taken care of, don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, And I feel for the families of the

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Speaker 1: four soldiers who were killed over there, But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, is that really worth days and

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Speaker 1: days of endless coverage. I don't think so. Um, So

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Speaker 1: there's that. And then another story was the um what

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Speaker 1: was it called the s FAB This Security Forces Assistance Brigades.

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Speaker 1: So these are the conventional units that are being stood

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Speaker 1: up to conduct foreign internal defense around the world, to

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Speaker 1: go and train, um, foreign militaries, which has always been

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Speaker 1: a Special Forces task. So that's been a big thing

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Speaker 1: that it blew up in the press, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of bad moves were made as they stood

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Speaker 1: up these units, like they were giving him green berets.

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Speaker 1: The acronym was SF. They had insignia that looked like

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Speaker 1: Special Forces insignia. That. Yeah, we did mention that their

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Speaker 1: their their nickname was the Legion, which was the Fifth Group. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were always the Fifth Legion. The last

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Speaker 1: time Derek was on, he actually spoke about this, So

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Speaker 1: that was one big controversy that popped off. Then, of

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Speaker 1: course we did mention a bunch of times the death

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Speaker 1: of the Green beret and that's been an ongoing story

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Speaker 1: at the hands of allegedly two Navy seals. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: melkar Um. Yeah, that story is still ongoing and we

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Speaker 1: don't have the truth behind it yet. Um. I honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're ever going to get the whole story,

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Speaker 1: um as far as what happened there. Um, But this

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Speaker 1: the official story. The story that the seals told doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense. But then there was also the story that

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Speaker 1: this guy's I believe fiance told your wife, the one

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Speaker 1: that was covered by the Daily Beast about these seals

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Speaker 1: being involved in something getting money illegally. He was being

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Speaker 1: he was asked to be a part of it, he

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Speaker 1: didn't want a part of it. And then when he

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Speaker 1: was going to expose this, that was what I was

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Speaker 1: told early on, that it had to do with illicit funds. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll see, I mean, we'll see, hopefully the truth comes out.

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Speaker 1: I'm not holding my breath though. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: Naval Special Warfare and especially that unit in particular, is

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Speaker 1: very good at covering things up, and they've done it

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Speaker 1: very well for you know, over a decade now, So

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Speaker 1: I think they're going to bury this. Yeah. Well, I know,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen much on it in a few months,

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Speaker 1: so for about a month and being in Seal Team six,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you literally get away with murder. What can

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Speaker 1: those guys do wrong? Nothing? I mean you literally do

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Speaker 1: what they whatever they want. No one's stopping him. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a controversial statement from you, I'm sure to

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Speaker 1: some in the community. I mean you can say it's controversial,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, is there any evidence to the contrary.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what happened? I mean, all these stories keep

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Speaker 1: coming out, and it keeps getting worse and worse and

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Speaker 1: worse and worse, and what happens nothing. You know, maybe

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Speaker 1: CBS starts up a new television show about Seal Team sex.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that's the only thing that happens. It's surreal.

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Speaker 1: Uh any other stuff that that you've been working on

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Speaker 1: because you've been away so it's like you haven't had

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Speaker 1: time to write as much or or yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: working behind the scenes and writing a little bit um

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Speaker 1: when I could. Um, I want to so for this

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Speaker 1: television show, I was in Serbia, um and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in Belgrade for you know, a week, and I

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Speaker 1: made some pretty good contacts and I'd like to write

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Speaker 1: kind of a retrospective on Serbia because you know, we

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Speaker 1: were involved there during the Coast of Out campaign and

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Speaker 1: all that back, and it's one of those places that

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Speaker 1: we get involved in and then we quickly forget about,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of like Afghanistan. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: there in the eighties and then we forgot all about it,

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Speaker 1: and then by two thousand and one week we were back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, we wanted to withdraw from Iraq in two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine, forget all about it, and then we were

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Speaker 1: back like what three years later, you know. So it's um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying we're gonna go to war in Serbia.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying that we should not just completely forget

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Speaker 1: about what's going on in the rest of the world. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I'd like to write a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: retrospective on that. And I'm working on another story about

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Speaker 1: um ususak Um and some stuff going on there. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start writing that story today or tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: but I probably don't want to get into the details

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Speaker 1: quite yet. All good. I mean, the big news story

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Speaker 1: today and and all of the media is banning, uh

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Speaker 1: criticizing Trump thing. Oh my god, did you see the

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Speaker 1: um the headline of the Daily News. I was reading

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Speaker 1: the New Yorker article about what do you think of

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Speaker 1: this as a cover? Oh my god, that is awesome.

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Speaker 1: But cock fight the weird thing for me. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about this on the podcast what is with the popularization

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Speaker 1: of this? What was like a pornographic term cock and

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Speaker 1: And I sent that to our friend Mike Bin's, you know,

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Speaker 1: producer willkal Majarty, and he was like, it doesn't even

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Speaker 1: make sense because Bannon doesn't have a wife that Trump

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Speaker 1: could fuck. So yeah, but that's I know what's changed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not That's not how the old right people use

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Speaker 1: that term. I mean, you'd have to ask them what

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Speaker 1: how they define it, of course, but I think the

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Speaker 1: term for them is that, you know, you're like front

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Speaker 1: running for somebody else, right, you know who. I think,

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Speaker 1: I honestly think popularized the term. And I know you're

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Speaker 1: not a fan of him, but I will give him

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Speaker 1: credit for popularizing cock I think it's my loginopolis he

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Speaker 1: was using it, you know, like he he was saying

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Speaker 1: what was really an obscene term in the media for

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Speaker 1: politics before it became this popular thing. Milo was somebody

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Speaker 1: who I kind of I guess you could say I

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Speaker 1: gave him the benefit of the doubt. I saw him

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Speaker 1: as kind of like a provact, you know, provocateur or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Um. But I mean, since all the

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Speaker 1: other stuff that's come out about him, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't say this lightly. I think Milo actually is a

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Speaker 1: Nazi even though he's gay. Who cares? And I think

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Speaker 1: married to a black guy, right, And well that's the camouflage, right.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like, you know, in the gay community, you'd say,

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Speaker 1: you know, a gay guy who's in the closet, he

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Speaker 1: has a wife. That's his beard. It's a camouflage, right.

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Speaker 1: So it's a bit of an extreme to go through though.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that it's insincere that he's

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Speaker 1: not really homosexual. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is that he uses these things as camouflage. Um. So

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Speaker 1: that you say, oh, he can't be a racist, he

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Speaker 1: can't be a homophobe, he can't be a Nazi. Of

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Speaker 1: course he can. There were thousands of Jews in the

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Speaker 1: Nazi military, in the Vermacht. There's you can be an

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Speaker 1: anti Semitic Jew, you can be a self loathing black man.

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Speaker 1: You can be you know, I can. I'm Irish American,

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Speaker 1: I can hate Irish people. I mean it's these things

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Speaker 1: are possible. So it serves as camouflage for for him.

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Speaker 1: I do think he used the term first though, and

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Speaker 1: I was saying, like, if he does media, I would

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Speaker 1: love to have Steve Bannon on the podcast. Uh I

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Speaker 1: I did know Steve Bannon or you know, Stephen K. Bannon,

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Speaker 1: because that's always I refers to himself. Prior to the

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Speaker 1: whole administration thing. I knew him as just a guy

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Speaker 1: who occasionally filled in for Andrew will Cow and took

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Speaker 1: over for Andrew bright Pard, who I did know, and

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Speaker 1: uh that never did I think he would become this

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Speaker 1: name that everybody knows. Yeah, this, Like I was just like,

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Speaker 1: where did this guy come out of? So, I mean

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Speaker 1: he still works at Serious. My friend Caroline mcgarrett's runs

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Speaker 1: like the radio division at the White House, and she

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Speaker 1: was Bannon's producer, so like we do have some connection there,

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Speaker 1: and I think it'd be an interesting guy to get

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Speaker 1: on and any former Navy I'm not opposed to getting

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Speaker 1: people on that are extreme right, extreme left, if as

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Speaker 1: long as they have something interesting to say and Bannon's

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Speaker 1: are I think Bannon had a lot of influence on

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Speaker 1: this current president UM early on early leads during the campaign,

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Speaker 1: I think he did, and I think he gradually lost

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Speaker 1: his influence. UM. I think he had a lot of

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Speaker 1: influence in getting him elected, too, because he he saw

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Speaker 1: like an opportunity for Breitbart to be this very pro

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Speaker 1: Trump outlet, And whether you look at them as like

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Speaker 1: a legitimate, legitimate news organization or not, their stuff is

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Speaker 1: spread like wildfire throughout social media. Will again break my

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Speaker 1: journalistic objectivity to say that I find Bannon fairly loathsome UM,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's interesting in the sense that Trump

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Speaker 1: is not an ideological person, but Bannon is Bannon Bennon

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Speaker 1: is ideological, and I wonder how much that led to

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Speaker 1: the split between the two of them. You know, as

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Speaker 1: I was reading that, there's a bunch of um, you know,

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Speaker 1: long articles that are out about this subject now, and

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Speaker 1: I was just reading that one. I think it's in

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Speaker 1: the New Yorker about Bannon and Trump and the early

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Speaker 1: days of UM of the Trump presidency, and there's a

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Speaker 1: big chism between the two of them, and I have

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Speaker 1: to believe that that's part of it that Bannon feels

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Speaker 1: like he's on this crusade. You know, he's fighting this

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Speaker 1: holy war and Trump is just free associating from day

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Speaker 1: to day. I think there's also a element of Bannon

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Speaker 1: saying that Trump Junior meeting with a Russian lawyer at

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Speaker 1: the White House was trees and it's you know, as

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Speaker 1: just a media guy, I do think, like you, you

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Speaker 1: make that snippet that could be a headline, and it

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Speaker 1: sells books. You know, it's being covered everywhere. So he

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Speaker 1: probably was purposely using very provocative language. Yeah. No, I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I think he's probably also trying to

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Speaker 1: insulate himself from the FBI investigation. He doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: get tied up in that. And um, um, what else

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Speaker 1: was I gonna say about that? Um, you're right that

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Speaker 1: he's probably selling books. But oh, I mean it also

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Speaker 1: just goes back of the fact that he's been scorned

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Speaker 1: by Trump, he got fired by the administration, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so he clearly has an extra grind too, and he's

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Speaker 1: on the offensive. What was your take on the nuclear

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Speaker 1: button tweet? It's completely juvenile, childish bullshit. I mean, it's, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I was telling you earlier. I

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Speaker 1: think Donald Trump is proof that you can be the

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Speaker 1: president of the United States and the most powerful person

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Speaker 1: in the world and still be a very small man

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Speaker 1: um and just be a very petty person. I did

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Speaker 1: see Alex how long Is, our writer did write a

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Speaker 1: really cool article about that there is no you know,

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Speaker 1: tangible nuclear button and the process that you would have

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Speaker 1: to go through to set off a nuclear weapon. And

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Speaker 1: I do think that's interesting because people wonder, like, what

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Speaker 1: what would the process be if we were to step

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Speaker 1: into a nuclear one and it all goes down very quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it has to, because once the nukes are in the air,

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Speaker 1: you have like something like what I can't remember the time.

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Speaker 1: There's different times for different things, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: like six minutes or something like that. You have to

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Speaker 1: make a decision. And I'm sure it's not just solely

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Speaker 1: the president's decision, you know. I would think if General

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Speaker 1: Maddis or any of these people out to take it

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Speaker 1: resides with the president, that's kind of that's pretty scary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the president is the nuclear authority, and if the president

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Speaker 1: is killed, obviously there's a descending order from the vice

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Speaker 1: president and eventually the Secretary of Defense would be somewhere

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Speaker 1: in that chain of command, you know, if our government

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Speaker 1: got wiped out in some sort of attack, and then

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Speaker 1: the other big thing to get to before we get

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Speaker 1: to ed. You are officially working on a memoir. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: can I say the title? Yeah, it's titled Murphy's Law,

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Speaker 1: which is like I I do feel like it's the

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Speaker 1: obvious title to go right in a good way. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't my idea. I'm trying to remember who came up

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Speaker 1: with it. Might have been Um, it might have been Vacillus.

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Speaker 1: I think he's trying to claim credit for that. Um,

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Speaker 1: it might have been my publisher. I can't remember who

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Speaker 1: came up with the idea, but um, that Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the title of the book. I've got about twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: words written. I wrote about joining the army, um going

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Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, and I'm writing about going to Iraq right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually in the portion when I was in Iraq

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, and I had to stop

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Speaker 1: writing yesterday and just like take some notes, like some

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Speaker 1: bullet points, because that whole when I think back to

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Speaker 1: that summer, is just like total insanity, and it's I

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Speaker 1: just have this like total, um frenzied scattered memories of

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Speaker 1: everything because things were happening so quickly. We probably did

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Speaker 1: like a hundred and fifty missions that summer and three months. Um.

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Speaker 1: It was just totally insane. So I'm trying to like

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Speaker 1: take a step back, and I have to like recollect

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Speaker 1: all of these experiences and try to put them together, um,

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Speaker 1: because just like flashes of different firefights and explosions and

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Speaker 1: weird stuff that happened in between, it's just wild. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me about you putting out a memoir is

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Speaker 1: you been writing for nearly like a decade now, I

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Speaker 1: think right, uh eight years, okay, so yeah, nearly a decade,

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Speaker 1: and you are a guy who writes very little about

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Speaker 1: your combat experience. Yeah. I actually write about this in

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the memoir, um, in the prologue or

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Speaker 1: maybe the first chapter. And yeah, I've written hundreds and

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Speaker 1: hundreds of articles, but I've written only like about things

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Speaker 1: that I've done personally, maybe three articles. I wrote one

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Speaker 1: about a joint mission I did in Iraq with UM

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Speaker 1: A Worse team in two thousand nine, and then I

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Speaker 1: wrote another two thousand nine mission when me and my

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Speaker 1: od A crashed a wedding. Um, so those are really

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Speaker 1: the only two I think I've really written about. And Um,

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Speaker 1: I was having a conversation with Jim West about it,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, that's your PTSD kicking in. He's like,

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Speaker 1: because you're avoiding what you've done and what you what

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Speaker 1: you actually participated in. It's a way of like avoiding

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Speaker 1: all of it. And maybe he's right, Um, sitting down

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Speaker 1: and actually thinking about this stuff, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that I just kind of put behind me and

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Speaker 1: moved on, you know, and I'm kind of going back

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Speaker 1: and trying to like, you know, like relive it. And it's, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's weird, and and it's going to be that way

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Speaker 1: for a while because I assume when you put the

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Speaker 1: book out, you're gonna be doing interviews all over and

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Speaker 1: people are gonna be asking about these stories that you

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Speaker 1: haven't opened up about until now. Yeah. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff in there. Um, and just a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, this book. And I warned my publisher

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Speaker 1: and my agent about this when when um we first

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Speaker 1: started talking about this book, I was like, look, man,

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Speaker 1: this isn't gonna be like the typical flag waving patriotic book.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's I'm pro military and I'm pro America,

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Speaker 1: and I don't hide that, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: hide that in this book. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff in there. It's not uh, it's not like Captain

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Speaker 1: America running in the Save the Day and you know,

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Speaker 1: band another thing, like another cliche like band of brothers.

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Speaker 1: Like my experience in the military is not the band

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Speaker 1: of brothers. I mean it was like we all fucking

425
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: hated each other, but we kind of pulled together in

426
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: the name of doing the mission. You know. Um, there's

427
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: still that like no man gets left behind sense of brotherhood.

428
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: But um, I would not describe us as a band

429
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: of brothers. We were like a band of assholes that

430
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: fucking hated each other, but we came together to do

431
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: this job. That that was the common thread, the commonality.

432
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: We were all soldiers, we all had a mission in

433
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: front of us. It felt that way in both the

434
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: Green Berets and the Army Rangers. Yeah, yeah, we're we're um,

435
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: you know, I different experiences, different cultures, um, but there's

436
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: still a lot of animosities between people. Um, And so

437
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean maybe that's kind of the beauty of it too,

438
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: in a way that all these different people can come

439
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: together and work together in combat. Um, but I'm not

440
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: going to church that up either and make it seem

441
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: like we're all like holding hands and kumbaya and all

442
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: this kind of Yeah. That that like band of brothers

443
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: people impression that people have. Like every once in a while,

444
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: I read books and memoirs from other people, um, and

445
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: I'm just like, holy sh it, what military were you?

446
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: And like everyone's like friendly top of the morning to

447
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: your gunny, you know, like what the fuck do you

448
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: think that could be? Just to avoid controversy though, And

449
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: I don't I think that. Um. You know, it's sort

450
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: of like high school, Like a lot of people talk

451
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: about like those were the best years of my life.

452
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people look back on their

453
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: military service with um, you know, rose colored glasses as

454
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: well that you know, those are the best years of

455
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: my life. Everything was so great and this and that,

456
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: and they were great years. They were good years, and

457
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: a lot of great things happen, but also a lot

458
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: of bad things, a lot of shitty things, and it's

459
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's life. Also. What will separate your book

460
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: from many of the books out there is you're the

461
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: sole writer of the book. Most books, you know, I've

462
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: said it on the show before. This is no like

463
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: big secret. It's the author's stories. But if you see

464
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: a co writer on there, oftentimes it's the co writer's book. Yeah. No,

465
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: I'm writing the I'm writing the book myself. Um, for

466
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: better or worse, And uh, you're I mean, and they

467
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: could trust you to do that. You've written three amazing

468
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: fiction books. Four well Deckard Novels is a trilogy, these four,

469
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: and I'm working on I've been working on five. After

470
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: I finished the memoir, I'll finished books. So Gray Matter

471
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: Spoder was the fourth book. And Um, the other thing

472
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: that's gonna make this book a little bit different is

473
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: it has my you know, three military deployments. I'm trying

474
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: to keep it kind of focused on the action. And

475
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: there's not gonna be a lot of stories in there

476
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: about like when I went to ranger school, like because

477
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: that's in a million other books. You know, you don't

478
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: probably need to hear that from me. Um, But so

479
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: the my time in you know, combat deployments and then

480
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: my time as an investigative journalist and like my trips

481
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: to Iraq, and Syria as a journalist, UM. So you know,

482
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: the whole experience of like getting smuggled into Syria in UM,

483
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: going into his war zone. I mean all these like

484
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: very odd but interesting experiences I've had UM as a

485
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: journal and I feel as a journalist, I've actually been

486
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: able to do more in a lot of ways than

487
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: I was in the military because I wasn't on anyone's leash.

488
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I could go and do literally whatever I

489
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do and it was all on me to

490
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: make the contacts, make it happen and UM, and there's

491
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: no one to tell me no. I was on my

492
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: own decision making process, for better or worse. UM. So,

493
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean as a journalist, I've been able to do

494
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: some incredible things that the US Army would never ever

495
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,959
Speaker 1: let me do. They'd go crazy. I mean, I've been

496
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: able to get smuggled into Syria. I've been running right

497
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: into UM combat with the pet schmurder in Iraq. UM.

498
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: I've went into Damascus, UM got the interview President Assad.

499
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: I've been into the Philippines UM, interviewing their special operations

500
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: guys traveling around there. I went to Switzerland, I did

501
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: a military training exercise in Switzerland. Um all this oldest

502
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: one day. Yeah, I've been, I've been in South Korea.

503
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: I've been done all kinds of different things that the

504
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: Army would like lose their ship over. Of course, well,

505
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: will SOFTWAREPP radio will get a mentioned in this book?

506
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: No SOFTWAREPP radio will get to mention, and I mean

507
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: soft REP will be mentioned, and that because it's gonna

508
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: follow that whole progression of when I got out of

509
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: the military. I was mentioned in the Total Focus book

510
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: by Brandon Webb, although he erroneously says that I worked

511
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: with Larry King. I never worked with Black. I worked

512
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: with Senator Bill Bradley. I don't know if he was

513
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: confusing too, but I was like, that's pretty cool. My

514
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: name was mentioned in here. So I'm wondering. I'm like, well,

515
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned doing soft rep ratio, because that would be

516
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a different venture. So yeah, it's

517
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: gonna that's gonna be a part of the book. Is

518
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, getting out of the military going to college,

519
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: that whole weird experience probably a chapter in there, and

520
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: UM and then how we started software ap me and

521
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: Brandon and UM and taking it from there, and how

522
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: one thing leads to the next. I mean, I think

523
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: that'll be an interesting yeare? I mean? I I agree,

524
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: and I know that there's maybe I don't from say.

525
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: If I'm not, I'll cut it out. A software book

526
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: in the works right about the story, I believe, So yeah,

527
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: I'll leave it at that, I guess. Um, And actually,

528
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: before we get to ED, what like around when do

529
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: you see this coming out? Um? I don't have a

530
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: publication date, do you think though? I think so? Yeah? Cool,

531
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: all right, I think I think it's going to be

532
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: a fairly quick turnaround. Well, with that, we'll get over

533
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: to ED. Ed. How are you doing? It's Ian and Jack? Great?

534
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: How you guys doing? How am I sound? Him? You

535
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: sound great? So? I you know, before I introduced you,

536
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I was wondering. I was while I was doing the

537
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: intro with Jack, I was like, am I saying head's

538
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: last name? Right? So? Is it Derek or Derek? Yeah?

539
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: No one ever gave me the instructions, and my parents

540
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: said Derek. So I've heard it direct. But I think

541
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Derek is the way that I I don't really care,

542
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: but Derek is uh is the one that I used personally,

543
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: So all right, So I think I had it right. Then, um,

544
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, joining us for the first time on SOFTWAREP

545
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Radio is Ed Derek, the author. One of the books

546
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: you wrote actually was Victory Point, Operation Red Wings and Whalers,

547
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps Battle for Freedom in Afghanistan. Uh. And

548
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: then I saw you've written a bunch of other books

549
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: unrelated to the military, and also your photography work, which

550
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: is just awesome. But the latest book that we'll get

551
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: into is the Final Mission at Vick Stortion seventeen Special

552
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: Ops Helicopter Support Seal Team six and the Deadliest Day

553
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: of the U S War in Afghanistan. So I'm looking

554
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: forward to getting into it and awesome to have you on. Hey, Ed,

555
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show. It's Jack. Hey Jack,

556
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah. No,

557
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to come on, and

558
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that. Um, you know this has been delayed

559
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: so long. Um. I actually read your book on Extortion

560
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: seventeen up at Lake George months ago. UM. I was

561
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: up there for someone's a friend's wedding, and I love

562
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: the book and I thought it was great and it's

563
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: gonna be very well published now it's out. But in September. Right, Yeah,

564
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, that book is very helpful for

565
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: the American public because there's a lot of technical information

566
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: in there about helicopters and military aviation and how all

567
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: of that works. Um So, I mean I really think

568
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: people should go and pick up that book. Thank you.

569
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying that. I not just for self enrichment,

570
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: but I you know, I tell people every American should

571
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: read this book because I tried to really give a

572
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: great full spectrum but also in depth, uh narration of

573
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: what modern war is all about through this particular incidents

574
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: from the people why they become more fighters. And you know,

575
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: you said it's technical. There's a lot of technical stuff

576
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: in there. I hope that doesn't scare people off. It

577
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: actually was detechnicalized. I don't know if that's a word,

578
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: but especially some of the stuff about technical intelligence gathering.

579
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: I think that's important for people to understand. Um, you know,

580
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: that's sort of you know, not to get too crazy,

581
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: but Sea four I S T I R S four Star.

582
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: You know that that data, that data flow is the

583
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: back backbone of modern particularly joint special operations command operations.

584
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I was thinking more about um, the

585
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: details you get into, um with the helicopters and how

586
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: helicopters work, and the maintenance and the investigations of accidents

587
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: and all the different physical and environmental aspects that go

588
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: into rotary wing aircraft. And UM, I learned a lot

589
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: from that stuff myself. So I think, UM, you know,

590
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: you're right that the average American can pick up this

591
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: book and it tells them everything they need to know

592
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: about Extortion seventeen. But it also tells a bigger story

593
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: about you know, what our boys are doing over in Afghanistan. Yeah,

594
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: thanks for saying that. And I, uh, that's that was

595
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: one of the primary intense of the of the book

596
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: from my standpoint. It was whittled way back from the

597
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: initial manuscript that I turned in. And and like you said,

598
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, rotary wing aviation, you know, helicopters and six

599
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: wing aircraft fly for the same reason ultimately, but it's

600
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: so much more complicated. You've got, you know, thin with

601
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: a concept called gyroscopic procession on a spinning you know

602
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: rotary system that you know, I got into that, but

603
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: they pulled that out and you know, the translational lift

604
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: and and approprioceptic indicators and all this other kind of

605
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: stuff that helicopter pilots even to know about. That tricks

606
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: wind pilots have never even heard of. Uh So it's

607
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great topic, and it was I

608
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: got to the best part of it was I got

609
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: to work with really great people, some rearly outstanding people

610
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: from all services, so not just the Army. I remember

611
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: when I was writing about the ben Laden raid and

612
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: this was years ago, and talking to helicopter experts about

613
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: why that helicopter probably or how we can speculate why

614
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: it crashed on that operation, and it was because of

615
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: what's they called the vortex ring state for are settling

616
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: with power, which was one of those things I had

617
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: never heard about. I don't know anything about this stuff.

618
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: And basically, it's what happens when the um the aircraft

619
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: goes back into its own rotor wash and now the

620
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: rotor blades are trying to grip, for lack of a

621
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: better term, dirty air, and they can't maintain their lift anymore.

622
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: And I mean, it's just one of those things that

623
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: that's your helicopter pilot, you've never heard of that. Yeah, Well,

624
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: I'm actually working on a project about that. That's if

625
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: that seemed correct. Settling with power and vortex ring state

626
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: are two completely different things. I've heard that rumor pushed around. Um,

627
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: there's another reason, the most likely reason for that incident,

628
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: and has nothing to do with either that those I'll

629
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: go really actually has to do with one of them.

630
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: I'll go over really quickly. Settling with it's actually settling

631
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: with insufficient power. Uh. And what happens is there's a

632
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: there's a train they teach this actually about hats a

633
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: high Altitude Army National Guard aviation training site in Colorado here,

634
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: um and for columns, it's just about four hours from here.

635
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: But it's UM. They basically, you know, as you go

636
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: higher and altitude, turbin engines don't operate as efficiently as

637
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: you do at sea level. There's not enough air not

638
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: to do rotor systems. Uh. And then when you load

639
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: up a helicopter you can basically you have yeah, yeah,

640
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: you've got to have you have power required and power available,

641
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: and when the power required exceeds power available, you fall

642
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: the sky. And that can happen in a number of ways.

643
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: You know, if you come in too fast and you

644
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: pull in the collective to collectively you curious the pitch

645
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: and all the rotor blades. Uh, and there's just not

646
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: the power there then you can crash. Now I'll go

647
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: over real quick with vortex rings state. If you want

648
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: to hear about this, not tell you, but so vortex

649
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: rings state um is like you explained, it occurs uh

650
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: in when of a helicopter or an osprey of the

651
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 1: twenty two osprey and helicopter mode this very little Ford

652
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: air speed and this the descent rate is really high,

653
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: and just like you said, it starts, it gets into

654
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: it's almost a donut. It's a vortex. It looks like

655
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: a donut in a diagram, and it can't bite the rotors.

656
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: Actually it's transverse lamb or float. You're getting it a

657
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: little bit more complicated, uh concepts. But the bulk of

658
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: the rotors system doesn't have it's it's in. It's not

659
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: so much dirty air. It just can't get the air

660
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: is decending as fast as the air is being pushed down.

661
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: So this is actually only card one time in modern times.

662
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: That happened in April two thousand that Morana, Arizona with

663
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: two V twenty two ospre actually with one V twenty

664
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: two Osprey Colonel Bianca, who helped with this book. It's

665
00:35:54,520 --> 00:36:00,240
Speaker 1: on extortion one seven. He actually actually embedded with his

666
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: his Osprey squadron in Afghanistan in two thousand. It was

667
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: the first one to go to Afghanistan conventionally, where there

668
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: may have been a cbtween two squadron over there before that.

669
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: But we talked about this at length because he was

670
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: Dash one when this happened. That the the the Austray

671
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: behind him was the one that went down there. Right,

672
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: they were in helicopter mode and they were descending a

673
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: ridiculous rate like two or three thousand feet per minute,

674
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: and the fourth air speed was less than ten knots,

675
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: and so the right the cell tipped and they apply

676
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: power and that just made it worse. All they had

677
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: to do is it turns out was rocked in the

678
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: cells forward and it would have got him out of that.

679
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: But that's the only time it's ever happened. So there's

680
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: no way that be in laden raid was a vortex

681
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: ring state situation. So you're saying it was a combination

682
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: of settling with power and having too many personnel on

683
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: the aircraft for the high altitude. The most likely situation

684
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: would have been laden ray was that they're in a

685
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: bottle bad. I think the temperature was at that time,

686
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: I think about seventy degrees the a four thousand feet

687
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: msl um and they were they were loaded up. They

688
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: were definitely loaded up. Uh. There's a couple other and

689
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: the most likely situations. They just came in too fast

690
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: and they tried to arrest their descent and they didn't

691
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: have the power to do it, so they crashed. Um.

692
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it's like there's a couple of

693
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say. I mean, also, um, I

694
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: wonder what played into it. If the because this was

695
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: a you know, secret helicopter that had special characteristics on it,

696
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: if that played any aspect or roll in it, Well,

697
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: that's unlikely because those rotor systems, that the rotor systems

698
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: probably just a regular you know, uh sixty rotor system.

699
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard a couple other theories bandied about

700
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: re ingestion of of exhaust and also the interruption of

701
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: air flow because of the wall, and those are two

702
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: completely ridiculous. Those are two completely ridiculous hypotheses because if

703
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: that was even remotely possible to think about all the

704
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: health the news pelicopters that fly around cities all the time.

705
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean there'd be helicopters falling the sky all the time.

706
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: Um if anything that wall, they're being close to the

707
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: ground like that would have put it into a what's

708
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: called an in ground effect hover situation where it, um

709
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: it would have helped it, not hurt it. So UM,

710
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: I went over this with some experts on this and

711
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: because this was actually part of the book and they

712
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: pulled it out, it was a pretty detailed and yeah,

713
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: it was a pretty detailed analysis of what happened, of

714
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: what most I'm sorry, what most likely happened. And people

715
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: who a lot of a lot of you know, even

716
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: military helicopter piles, are unaware of these limitations that helicopters

717
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: have because it's you and what fort rucker where army

718
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: aviators or army helicopter aviators or trained I mean uh sixties,

719
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: even when they're loaded up, usually have twenty or even

720
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: thirty power markets, meaning that they've got that much more

721
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: power available. But when you get into these situations where

722
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: you're just cramming people in your high altitude and that's

723
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: considered high altitude, and you come in fast like I mean,

724
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: it's just basic Newtonian mechanics. I mean, if you try

725
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: to stop a car going ninety miles an hour and thirty,

726
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: you know it's gonna crash at the wall, you know.

727
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: I remember one operation that was being planned it was

728
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: never executed that um you know, my unit was going

729
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: to participate in, was in the Tora Bora Mountains. This

730
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: would have been two thousand four, and they were telling

731
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: us at the time that there would only be two

732
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: soldiers on each MH sixty because of the high altits.

733
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that state they do what's

734
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: called their the Air Force called the spaghetti charts and

735
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: the UH the the Army calls it tabular data charts.

736
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: And for you know T seven hundred Tech seven or

737
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: one Charlie engine. You know they've in which is what

738
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: they are in UH sixties and I think the m

739
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: X sixty MIC model has a one fifteen, which is

740
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: a more powerful engine. But just like you said, they're

741
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: gonna sit there and do their tabular data charts, and

742
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, if they're got to come into a hover

743
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: or they got to slow down and hover and then land.

744
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: I mean, they don't want to ball it up. Yeah exactly.

745
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: They used to make us get all our kid on

746
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: and each soldier will get into line and we'd stand

747
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: on the scale and weigh each one of us. Yeah, yeah,

748
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, because I mean, if you're going in at

749
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: eleven twelve thousand feet above sea level, um, that's it's dangerous.

750
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: There's a there's a situation that happened on not Massive

751
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: at two thousand nine up here in Colorado with an

752
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: m H sixty mic model which is the latest um

753
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: uh sixty you know, helicopter as cock pit and on

754
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: up gunded engines and all that and all I think

755
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: three or four I can't remember how many people on board,

756
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: but they all died. They came in to try to

757
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: land on the summ of the mountain Massive, which is

758
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: fourteen thousand feet and maybe four fourteen three or something

759
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: like that, and there's other there. It was officially pilot

760
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: air but in the specific reports are classified. But there's

761
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: a few different things going on, um most likely going on.

762
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: And but that was just they were attempting a maneuver

763
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: that the helicopter cann't do so and they just crashed.

764
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: So it's uh, even with just four people on board.

765
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: One of the problems when you hear some of the

766
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: helicopter pots talk about this is that you know they'll

767
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: put bigger engines in like an Apache or or an

768
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: UG six year and MGE sixty, but then they're like, oh,

769
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: we can put more stuff on it. So it's sort

770
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: of a draw care more stuff. And I'm sure that

771
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,479
Speaker 1: you will remember, you know, when the one sixty takes

772
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: people up. And I'm not bad the one sixties at all,

773
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: but a lot of times you'll see the fly with

774
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: three m as opposed to its conventional UM raid will

775
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: just have to and that's because they've got so much

776
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: more stuff on them, refueling probe, terrain, following radar, all

777
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that you know, more defensive weapons

778
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: and that stuff is necessary, but it's too bad that

779
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: it couldn't be easily pulled off because that refueling probe

780
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: alone has got away a couple of thousand pounds. Really,

781
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: this is uh, this is all like super cool stuff.

782
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: I can talk about all day with you, but I

783
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: do want to get into your your work, your book, UM,

784
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: because you've written about two pretty controversial things. I mean,

785
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: Operation Red Wings and the extortion seventeen crash. Um, I'm

786
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: not really quite sure where to start. I mean, I guess,

787
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: um with extortion seventeen. I mean, there's been a lot

788
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: of controversies. UM. I think, you know, for the people

789
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, and we published an article that

790
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: you wrote today about the myths surround extortion seventeen. And

791
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: maybe that's a good place to start, because I know

792
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: Peter have heard these conspiracy theories before. UM, I've I've

793
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: even had let's just say, family members try to get

794
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: in touch with me who believe in conspiracies about extortion seventeen.

795
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: And I just wondering if you could address some of

796
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: those from a conceptual, fundamental standpoint. I think what what's

797
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: going on is that, you know, there's a there's a

798
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a schism, but because it's

799
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: by design, but the separation between the population, the non

800
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: military population and people who are war fighters who work

801
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: for the Department of Defense is huge. There's just there's

802
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: such a lack of understanding, particularly of modern warfare and

803
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: how these things work. And you get questions like, well,

804
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: why wasn't the one sixty is supporting these guys their

805
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: special operations and they're elite and they're this, and they're that.

806
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: And the reality is that conventional forces today work with

807
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: special operations forces all the time and support you know,

808
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: some are supporting, some are supported. Uh. You know, it

809
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: is particularly in these these recent wars and O I

810
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: F and oh yea. It wasn't so much that at

811
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: the beginning of oh yeah, but it's certainly evolved that way.

812
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: And there are always so many helicopters to go around.

813
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that doesn't have an unlimited number of helicopters

814
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: and pilots just floating around. Yeah, exactly, You're exactly right.

815
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: And so but back to the point, and I'm sure

816
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: you've experienced this frustration. It's you know, my friend Katie,

817
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: she uh, she's her brother flies a tens and she's like, yeah,

818
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: he never talks about it. And I was like, yeah, well,

819
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: that's not because he's seen horrible, terrible atrocities twenty thousand

820
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: feet or five feet as it maybe within eighten. It's

821
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: because he doesn't want to explain to you what a

822
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: nine line brief is. He doesn't want to explain, you know,

823
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: what hard points are and the difference what a targeting

824
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: pot is and Buddy lazing and you know the difference

825
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: between pointing and designating with a laser. Uh, It's just

826
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: there's so much to it. And so with the Extortion

827
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: one seven, it was very easy for the conspiracy pushers

828
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: to sort of move in and tempt this stuff out.

829
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: They said, well, it was you know, Seal Team six,

830
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: and they should have been on two helicopters, and you

831
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: know there was these mysterious as gands on board. Well,

832
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: all these operations, it's sort of combined like the nine

833
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: eleven Truthers. It's that there's an incredible amount of technical

834
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: information you have to know in order to understand how

835
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: all of that went down, and if you don't have

836
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: that technical background, like you said, for the general population,

837
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: the military is very mysterious and closed off, and people

838
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: who have nefarious intentions can exploit their ignorance quite easily. Exactly.

839
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,959
Speaker 1: That's very well stated. And people have you know, they're

840
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: pushing books, they're pushing they want to make movies about it,

841
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: and it's just silly. It's um, it's insulting, and it's

842
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: urpful actually to a lot of the family members, and

843
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: particularly when they say, well, what were these reservists and

844
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: National Guards been doing well. The National Guard is an

845
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: incredible well of experience as you as you know, and

846
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: and I mean these people who are in the National Guard,

847
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: a lot of times they came there from you know,

848
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: conventional units and then they go to the National Guard

849
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: and they stayed there for years and they become great

850
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: at what they do, like flying. So so what do

851
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 1: you think are the um some of the bigger ones

852
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: that you would want to debunk if you were to choose,

853
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: like the top three, I mean one of them, you know,

854
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: we we hear that, you know, Obama sent uh you know,

855
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: the guys involved in big laden raid into you know,

856
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: have them assassinated, you know, which I don't even I'm

857
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: sorry to even have to ask this kind of stuff

858
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: because I sense so stupid. But I know there are

859
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 1: people listening to this who have these kind of questions. Yeah,

860
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: and I know, I I hear you when you say that,

861
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: like it's embarrassing to bring it up because it's so absurd.

862
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: But because you were in the military, and I never

863
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: was in the military, but I spent a lot of

864
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: time around in military, and I just know how crazy

865
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: that is. And it's just there's first of all, logistically,

866
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: it would be impossible, you know, for anybody to be

867
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: able to give four warning. I mean, these guys who

868
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: shot the helicopter down, which just happened to be at

869
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: the right place at the wrong time and they got

870
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: a really really lucky shot. There's no way. And you

871
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: know with a ballistic weapons system, uh you know, and no, no,

872
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, an unguided ballistic weapons system. So there's no

873
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: way logistically they could have informed them. And even if

874
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: they did, why would they be using an unguided ballistic

875
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: weapons system? Real quick? Here uh, the sign significant action

876
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: reports the cigas on wiki leaks, I think they are

877
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: there from what was it, oh six to o nine?

878
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: When I do uh, When I did a search U

879
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: Sapphire and RPG sapphire being small arms fire and RPG,

880
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: I came up with something like eight hundred results, meaning

881
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: there is helicopter pilots who reported a significant action of

882
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: being shot at by an RPG some eight hundred times

883
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: in that three year period and none of them. Nothing,

884
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: nobody got shot down. You can count on one hand

885
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: a number of helicopters have been shot down by RPGs

886
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan in the entire war, not just during that

887
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: three year period. So it's just a remarkably lucky shot

888
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: to address why all those guys were on one ship.

889
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: It was a small l z they want, you know,

890
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: jonas Kel saw the seal who was a command of

891
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: the ground element, wanted to mass all the force in

892
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: one spot at one time, and they didn't want to

893
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 1: do a sequential insert that would have taken too much

894
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: time and given potential ambushers that much time to get

895
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: ready for the second ship to come in. UM, and

896
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: let me see some of the other ones. The mysterious

897
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: Afghans I think, you know, I addressed that on your

898
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: on the article. You guys posted a thank you very

899
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: much for putting that up. I really appreciate that. UM.

900
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: I try to be as comprehensive as possible in that list. UM.

901
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: I think I think the mysterious Afghans thing is just absurd.

902
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: They you know, all these operations are combined, meaning that

903
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: they use local forces because that's the whole point after

904
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: the initial kinetic phase of O e F, was to

905
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: stand up their military so they could deal with this themselves.

906
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 1: And so you know, a lot even these JSACK raids

907
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: had you know, Afghan personnel with them, and all the

908
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: conventional operations did so um, and then I think just

909
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: the biggest one is when people ask, well, why why

910
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: were these National guardsmen and these reservists flying these elite

911
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: forces and all these guys are all trained to the

912
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: same highest standards, so in the one sixtieth, those guys

913
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: are great. I think I think what people should understand

914
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: is that maybe special operations should be called specialized operations

915
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: because a lot of you know, particularly these helicopter pilots,

916
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they're doing very specialized things that they trained

917
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: for that are not always needed. I mean, they don't

918
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: need to do these pinnacle rooftop plannings in Afghanistan. I

919
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: mean sometimes they do, but that's you know, like Iraq

920
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: or something. So I've got a little specialized training that

921
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily relevant to what's going on in the Tangy Valley,

922
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: where these guys who don't have the specialized training can

923
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: perform the same tasks as the one sixtieth so just

924
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: as well as they can, and they did, so maybe

925
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: we can understand how a civilian without the technical background

926
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: might kind of hear some of this stuff and be like, yeah,

927
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense. You know, but then what

928
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: do we have? What do we think? I mean, I

929
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: guess what do you think when we see someone like

930
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: retired General Jerry Boykin getting on board with these sorts

931
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: of things sinility? You know. I hate to be flippant,

932
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: but I it might be, you know, and he was

933
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: the commander of Delta Force and of Special Forces and

934
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: its entire to how how Yeah. I mean I don't

935
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: know specifically that name rings a bell because I you know,

936
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: I looked into the conspiracy theories, but I didn't look

937
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 1: into the personalities behind him. I looked at you wouldn't.

938
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know anything about this guy. I mean,

939
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: I know there's some older guys who who are like

940
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: an admiral or something who are who are claiming this

941
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: that these it was probably Admiral Lyons. I mean, I've

942
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: heard so many interviews with Boykin. I mean, he seems

943
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: to be, you know, completely there, So I think that'd

944
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: be crazy accusation, to be honest, But I would say,

945
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: throwing in here just what I know about Boyken. Boykin

946
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 1: works for a lot of right wing you know, thinking

947
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: I think it probably benefits him in a way to

948
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: throw out an Obama conspiracy theory just to push it. Yeah,

949
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: you know, I think so that's too bad. That's too

950
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: bad because it's it's just, you know, I don't get

951
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: political with anybody, but it's just it really doesn't do

952
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: the conservative movement any You to be banning around these

953
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: nonsensical conspiracy theories. The guy's not doing anybody any good.

954
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: And like you said, you might be able to to

955
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: wou favor uh with some people. And I get it.

956
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 1: There's people out there who hate Donald Trump, and there's

957
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: people who hate Barack Obama, and it's just they become

958
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: um delirious with with their their anger towards these people

959
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: and towards these political ideologies, and we'll say just about

960
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: whatever they want. And you know, it's uh, temporary insanity,

961
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: temporary senility. You know, it's just, you know, you lose

962
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: your mind. I just mean, a retired general should know

963
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: better than to cynically exploit the deaths of American soldiers

964
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: for some cheap political you know, I agree with you,

965
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: but maybe the guy really believes it. I mean, I

966
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: don't know anything about this guy, but you know, I've

967
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: met some dumb generals, haven't you, Yeah, most of them.

968
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean I mean it's it's it's you know, in

969
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: the Marine Corp. They you know, it's not written down

970
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: on doctrine or anything or really discussed that much. But

971
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: I've had these guys say, look at just seventy the generals,

972
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: that seventy percent of the O six as they get

973
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, promoted to GEO general officer status, are great

974
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: of them are not? And you know, I met some dummies,

975
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: so I you know, it's all types. You and I

976
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: are on board with logic and careful detailed analysis, and

977
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: some people just aren't. So it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate to

978
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: hear that. And and it continues that same that same

979
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: gimmick continues. I remember people, and these were actually Special

980
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: Forces veterans asking me. They're passing around this conspiracy theory

981
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: that with David Johnson, one of the soldier who has

982
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: killed in Nisair recently, was like some sort of a

983
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: trader and he was working with al Qaeda and he

984
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: sold out the location of the men and got him ambush.

985
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: And I was like, dude, stop, just stop. Yeah, here's yeah,

986
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: here's what I tell people too, because again I've never

987
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: been in the military, but I've been on you know,

988
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: the first thing I did in Afghanistan, not the first,

989
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: but I mean first combat operation I went on was

990
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: on a Chinook sev D with a bunch of Marines,

991
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: Navy attached Navy hospital Corman and local Afghan fighters and

992
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: with their coats and chickens. And it was you know,

993
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what, I was scared. And every time,

994
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean I went to Afghanistan four times and I

995
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: racked twice every time I called the month out. About

996
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: one month out, you really start paying attention to I

997
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: A D strike, sniper tacks and all that kind of

998
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: stuff in the AO because you're scared. You don't want

999
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: to die, you don't want to lose your arms. You

1000
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: want to come home, you know, you don't want to

1001
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 1: get blown up and shacked and and screwed up. And

1002
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: you once you're there, you do anything and everything you

1003
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: can to preserve yourself and the people around. And that's

1004
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: just that's just human nature. And there's no way in

1005
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: hell any American Service personnel is gonna I've never heard

1006
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: this conspiracy theory you're saying, but I know where you're

1007
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: going with it. He's going to sell out his fellow

1008
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: war fighters. To al Qaeda for like what you know,

1009
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't even how can anybody even promote that? Well,

1010
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: they can promote it because they've never actually been in

1011
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: a combat theater and they've never actually experienced that fear.

1012
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: It's also that constellation of fake news websites out there

1013
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,280
Speaker 1: that promote this kind of nonsense. Um, yeah, yeah, I agree,

1014
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: But I mean going back to you know, facts, Uh,

1015
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: what do you take away from the extortion seventeen crash

1016
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: and all? I mean, we had a tremendous loss of life?

1017
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: Um is there? What? What? What do you think are

1018
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: the lessons learned from that entire event? Well, it's hard

1019
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 1: to say that there's lessons learned about this specific event

1020
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: other than the chance is still part of the battlefield.

1021
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: That's the one thing that people need to realize chance

1022
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: is still there now conceptualizing because you know, people have

1023
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: asked me, said, hey, how could you stop this? Well,

1024
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: the only really, like we talked about before, intelligence, the

1025
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: only way that you could ever really know because you've

1026
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: got you know, this Blue Force Tracker and I guess

1027
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: your listeners are probably familiar with the fp IS and

1028
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: you know you're there in the Humby and you're looking

1029
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: at the bf T screen and you can see where

1030
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: this kiawa is and this forces and this is where

1031
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: this tick is. But we don't have the capability to say, well,

1032
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: there are these guys over here and they're near what

1033
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: we what are RPG launchers. Um. They You could technically,

1034
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: maybe one day in twenty years do that because you

1035
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 1: need a type of intelligence called measurement and signature intelligence gathering.

1036
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: That's how you are m C twelve Liberties and r

1037
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: C twelve guard Rails uh, and a few other aircraft.

1038
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: The r Q one seventy has this capability, which is

1039
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: to soak up um. You know, like a an example

1040
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: of Mason Massin is UH. You see the muscle flash

1041
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: of a gun, and that muscle flash has a signature

1042
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: and the that's so that's a signature, and then the

1043
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: measurement is the time between the firing of it and

1044
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: that signature, and the timing between it shows it's dishka Okay.

1045
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: So you know they've got a twelve point seven millimeter

1046
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: any aircraft weapon system firing that's masson. Now there's all

1047
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: sorts of masson's. There's there's RADIOISI topic that's what we

1048
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: used uh in Iran to detect what they're doing, UM,

1049
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 1: you know, trying to enrich your ae UM. There's there's

1050
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: there's visual, there's there's UM, there's auditory, there's there's a

1051
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: there's quite a few of them. And but the ability

1052
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: to be able to scan an entire area and to

1053
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: metallurgically identify and chemically identify what weapons systems exist. I

1054
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: mean just in the square mile would take all the

1055
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: computing power to the NSA ever dream of UM. And

1056
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: that's the other thing about intelligence gathering is that we

1057
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: have these great capabilities, but you have to know where

1058
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: to look. You've got to focus on one area to

1059
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: determine it. You know, that's why they would request, you know,

1060
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm C twelve Liberty, RC twelve guard Rail. Hey what's

1061
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: that house right there doing? You know, they loiter, They

1062
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: soak up all sorts of information passively, a little bit

1063
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: of a little bit of active centers, but mostly most

1064
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: mostly it's passive, and they can say, oh, it's an

1065
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: OpenU house, Oh it's an I D facility. That's you know,

1066
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: but you've got to know where to look. Nobody knew

1067
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: to scan anything, and there there's no RPG scanner. Anyway,

1068
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: there's nothing I know of that could determine if these

1069
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: RPGs were even sitting there um to look in this

1070
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: one little village. You know, there's just no way to

1071
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: know that. So maybe one day we'll have some swarm

1072
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: your own technology with massively powerful uh technical intelligence gathering

1073
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: capabilities and massively powerful computers to constantly analyze all this stuff,

1074
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: and then we can say, Okay, well, we know a

1075
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: potential threat lies right here and don't fly there. But

1076
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: we just don't have that. And that's why chances stole

1077
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 1: a part of a battlefield, and it always will be

1078
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: even when you have a capability like that, because you're's

1079
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: then there's counter intelligence where you can you can make

1080
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: make stuff up. They've been doing counterintelligence for you know,

1081
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: counter technical intelligence forever. You know, the fake tanks back

1082
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: in World War Two and all that kind of stuff.

1083
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: So so you're saying, you know, unless you have the

1084
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: power of God, that this is just this is just

1085
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: part of the battle space. Yeah, And that's the thing,

1086
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: and and and that's that's one of the reasons that

1087
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, one of the problems with this disconnect, the

1088
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: schism between the American populace and the warfighter is that

1089
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: you know, you say thank you for your service, but

1090
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of hollow and maybe say, why are you

1091
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: thinking me? What? What are you specifically thanking me about

1092
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: the risks I'm taking? You know, it's like you don't

1093
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: really know that there's there, it's a tremendous risk that

1094
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: it's really it's really effing dangerous to do this stuff.

1095
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean, just getting in a helicopter in a war zone.

1096
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean it's tremendously dangerous. So it's there's that risk

1097
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: is there, and it's it's probably always going to be there.

1098
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the nature of war. It's unknown. There's

1099
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: unknowns there, and they'll they'll never be able to be

1100
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: unspun that enigma of of potential unknowns. You know, like

1101
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: we I don't know personally, but I can guarantee you

1102
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of really powerful assets, intelligence gathering

1103
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: assets aimed at North Korea right now, but we still

1104
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: don't know. So it seems like we know actually very

1105
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: very little going on over there. Well who well, again

1106
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: not being privating in that stuff, uh, And I have

1107
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: a lot of faith in the people who work the

1108
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: intel side of things. UM, but who knows, UM, somebody

1109
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: knows something. UM, but well, you know what, you and

1110
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: I aren't privy to that stuff. That's pretty highly compartment

1111
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: that I think at the t S level at this point,

1112
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: UM shifting gears a little bit to UM. Operation Red Wings.

1113
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: That's another thing that people are very emotional about. I find. UM.

1114
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, what what are your findings on

1115
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: Red Wings versus you know, say, the story that we've

1116
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: been told by the movies. Well, when I wrote the

1117
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: book Victory Point, I based it off after action reports

1118
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: in UM, interviews with people with Intel people. And also,

1119
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: I mean there was a video made in this video,

1120
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: there's two video videos made and you can see there's

1121
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: seven people total. Total seven Now, I said in my

1122
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: book eight to ten, because there possibly could have been

1123
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: like another fire team, you know, three or four of

1124
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: the guys off in another part. And you know, I people,

1125
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: I didn't get a lot of it, but I got

1126
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: some serious hate mail, death threats and stuff like how

1127
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: do you say this? Because Marcus Latrell was there and

1128
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: he said there was four hundred guys and all this

1129
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: in that Well, as it turns out, UM, it was seven.

1130
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: UM and it was the you know, all this comes from,

1131
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, subsequent intelligence reports. I wasn't. You know, I

1132
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: have a interesting relationship with certain units that I've worked with,

1133
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: and so I get access to information and with the

1134
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: caveat of don't explain how this we got this. And

1135
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: this was ten years ago. I didn't. I just said

1136
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: signals intelligence. Um, well, since then, it's come out this

1137
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: thing called l l V I maybe you've heard of it,

1138
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: Low level voice intercept. They put it on the RC

1139
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: twelve guard rail. They put it on pods. They and

1140
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: these pods were around stall a star and the low

1141
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: level voice intercepts like cell phones. It's a point six

1142
01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: WAT transmitter. Uh and also radio's two A radios and

1143
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: icons you you know what an icom is, and and

1144
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: SAT phones yeah, walkie talkies two ways pushed the talks

1145
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: ptt s and I mean all this stuff is recorded

1146
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: and like you can track people by their phone. I mean,

1147
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: it's it's all sorts of crazy capabilities. And that's what

1148
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: they were doing. And the number seven. And there's one

1149
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: other thing that I continue to work on, red Wings.

1150
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into too much detail, but

1151
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: I continue to work on that It's hard to believe

1152
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: because I have been involved with the Red Wings before

1153
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: it was even Red Wings. It was March of two

1154
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: thousand five that I met the battalion that actually was

1155
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: took it from their sister battalion in Afghanistan. They just

1156
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: the battalion at the time just didn't have the intel

1157
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: hits to proceed with it. And they was called Stars

1158
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: at that point, and so they took it and they

1159
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: renamed it Red Wings, and they you know, and then

1160
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: I showed up in Afghanistan a few months after that

1161
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: and ended up writing a book about it and articles

1162
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: and it just keeps it just it just has the

1163
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: life of its own. And in subsequent years us and

1164
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: pretty recently there's been a couple of other things that

1165
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: have come up that I can say with absolute certainty

1166
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: it was seven guys, because I know that's what you're

1167
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: getting at, because that's what people always get upset about.

1168
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: How dare you say these Navy seals were only up

1169
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: against seven guys? Well they were. And there's there's irrefutable

1170
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: stuff at this point to you know, not just you know,

1171
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: classified the after action reports and even the video made

1172
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: by those guys. There's other stuff out there that definitively

1173
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: answers that question. So, and I think people are realizing

1174
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: now that, yeah, you know, it's you know, I helped

1175
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: write that Newsweek article that it was May often it

1176
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: was May sixth, I think. And Pat Kinser who I

1177
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: was his I was embedded in his platoon in Afghanistan,

1178
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: and they he's got a great quote in there. He's

1179
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: like this total bullshit that there's that many guys. There's

1180
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: there's not twenty or thirty, you know, or two hundred

1181
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: people in all the congle Valley. Sorry, well you were

1182
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: saying that we were told. I just gonna say, do

1183
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: you blame Marcus Latrelle for like what seems like an exaggeration?

1184
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: Do you think it could be the result of PTSD

1185
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: or just the heat of the moment that you know,

1186
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: you don't vividly remember every detail of a story you're

1187
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: a part of. Um. Well, uh boy, I don't want

1188
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: to use the term blame. Um. And I've been accused

1189
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: of going after Marcus Latrell and I've never done that.

1190
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: All I've ever gone after the truth. And there is

1191
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: there was there was stuff in command higher command that

1192
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: I think that I would blame this on. Um there's

1193
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: a guy I'm not going to put his name out there,

1194
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: but he was you know, was six and he Um,

1195
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: three of those four guys had never been in combat before.

1196
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: You know, Danny Beats was the only one of ever

1197
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:04,919
Speaker 1: been in combat. And there also an STV team sent

1198
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: on a special reconnaissance mission in the mountains. Yea, And

1199
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, you know a lot more about this than

1200
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: I do. This is your forte but uh, you know

1201
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: it's it's those guys have never trained together. And UM,

1202
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, I have got my own personal theories and

1203
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: once we get a little bit more information, I'll be

1204
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: able to put it out there, and that's going to

1205
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: happen in the next few years. But I'm gonna keep

1206
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: those personal thoughts to myself right now. But you know,

1207
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: it was just um what has been published, including in

1208
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: my book, and then um, some technical articles that I've

1209
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: written in one very important article that was written in

1210
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: the Marine CORPSI Isette by the battalion commander second time

1211
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: thurb Marines. Um. They it was just it was it

1212
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: was a command chain breakdown, uh, and so many different levels.

1213
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: It was just, um, they're so much. I mean, we

1214
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: we can talk for hours about this, from the aviation

1215
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: aspect of it, from the initial planning of it, from

1216
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: the egoist side of it. But there's there's really one

1217
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: particular guy that all this falls on the shoulders of.

1218
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: I won't say his name, but I'm sure there's some

1219
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: people out there who know. Yeah, I think I know

1220
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: who you're talking about to Ed, and I mean this,

1221
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: this person is involved in floating, um, heroic narratives and

1222
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: more than one incident yep, yep, Takagar Robert's rich yep, yep, yep.

1223
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: And so so they take they take naval failures and

1224
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: spin them into these like heroic Hollywood scripts yep. And

1225
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to speak to anything well, I it's

1226
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: a little bit too sacralar I don't even go there.

1227
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: But it's, um, you know who I'm talking about, and um,

1228
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, let's just leave it at this. And there's

1229
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: gonna be there's gonna be more on the Red Wings.

1230
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: There's gonna be more stuff on Red Wings. So I'm

1231
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: working one project right this second. Um, I'm no, I'm

1232
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: happy actually with the Ranger with an army Ranger, Okay, Yeah,

1233
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: the two seven five guys that were involved, Yeah, and

1234
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, your friend and Leo Jenkins was

1235
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: one of them, and didn't he write a piece for futing.

1236
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: But Jenkins was three seven five, He was in my

1237
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: battalion and he was UM one of the guys that

1238
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: was spun up after it happened, and they quickly rushed

1239
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: them into Afghanistan, UM to help search for Latrelle. Yeah,

1240
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: because I remember him writing a piece for you know,

1241
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: about him refuting some of the stuff in the Lone

1242
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: Survivor movie. Yeah, I think. Yeah. The Rangers also came

1243
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: to the conclusion that there wasn't some massive firefight with

1244
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: hundreds of people fairly quickly. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean,

1245
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: I'm try to try to be as careful about this

1246
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 1: as possible, But there was no five five six brass found.

1247
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: And I you know that we've already we've already published

1248
01:08:56,080 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: that in UM in the Newsweek article. You're talking. What

1249
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: else in the Newsweek article was that Latrell had all

1250
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: eleven magazines with them and they all were filled with rounds.

1251
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: So I read that article. I remember that. Yeah, yeah,

1252
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: so Ed, what do you think I mean? You talked

1253
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: a little bit about the schism between the American military

1254
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, veteran or soldier in the U. S. Public.

1255
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 1: Why do you think these stories, these these like grand

1256
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 1: narratives we create. We keep creating them over and over again,

1257
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: and we found this very emotional attachment to them. I mean,

1258
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: what do you make of all of this? Um? You know,

1259
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: I guess civil military relationship that we have with these

1260
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: like G I. Joe type movies and things. It's interesting

1261
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: because I had it too when I just you sort

1262
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 1: of it was just ignorance. I mean, it just comes

1263
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: down to ignorance. And I think people really there's a

1264
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: it's I'm not a psychologist, but people do tend to

1265
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: want to be part of something that they feel is

1266
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: greater than themselves. Like you probably experienced. It's like everybody.

1267
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: So many people I meet, they they're saying, Oh, I

1268
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: have a friend and he knows somebody in the Navy Seals,

1269
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: and so all of a sudden, they're imbued with all

1270
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: this wisdom and knowledge about how the military works. Like

1271
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about that spy satellite cause I got

1272
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: a friend of the Navy Seals. Maybe seals don't know

1273
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: anything about communications or SR satellites, you know, maybe some do,

1274
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: but you know, but somehow, or you see this too

1275
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 1: with these experts, these guys that go on these TV shows,

1276
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: and like one day they'll be asking about like a

1277
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: nuclear warhead and a in a a in a submarine,

1278
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: and then the next day they'll be talking about like

1279
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: a black Hawk helicopter, you know. And it's one of

1280
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: the things that when I go out and I I

1281
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: call him one shot sources because they know about one

1282
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: thing and that's it, and I can use them once,

1283
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: like you know, with Extortion one seven Buddy Buddy Lee,

1284
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 1: who was the extortion company commander, Like he's great and

1285
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: he helped tremendously with this book, but I will never

1286
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 1: need to use him as a source again because he

1287
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: only knows about that. He knows about a lot of things,

1288
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: but he's an absolute expert in that. And that's what

1289
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: you gotta go for. And a lot of times and

1290
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: what happens is the news media, we'll just go for

1291
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: these these professional quote unquote professional sources, and so yeah,

1292
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: you get like you get like the acronym CIA after

1293
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: your name, and suddenly you're, you know, you're an expert

1294
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: on everything, and like ourt news has you wanted to

1295
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: all sorts of zany stuff. It's more than just military too, though.

1296
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of these like no one

1297
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: stays in their lane anymore if they're a contributor on

1298
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: Fox News or CNN. I've brought this up countless time,

1299
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: so I apologize to the audience, and I brought up recently,

1300
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: but it's just an example that sticks out of my head.

1301
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: I remember watching one of these Hannity panels, uh, and

1302
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: they were like lawyers and there were you know, just

1303
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: commentators were in their twenties. And then they had you know,

1304
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: like Nick Irving on this panel and Hannity is asking

1305
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: questions about ISIS and terrorism, and I noticed, like it's

1306
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: the lawyers opening their mouths every time, who probably have

1307
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: no expertise on the subject. And I'm watching it's like,

1308
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 1: go to Nick Irving. He's actually an army ranger, he

1309
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: actually has been in combat. And it just that's how

1310
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: the media is with these people who who think that

1311
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: they're an expert on every subject that you throw at them. Well,

1312
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: I mean with respect to Nick Irving, I mean he's

1313
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:22,640
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. Nick has no experience with ices either. No,

1314
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: But my point being, would I rather hear from Nick

1315
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: Irving or or a Rod's attorney who is you know, Yeah, no,

1316
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: I understand, I understand. Um, Well, what's interesting about that

1317
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 1: also is that, um, we can watch somebody on the news.

1318
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: I can I can watch someone talking about counter terrorism

1319
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: and be like, wow, that person is totally full of shit.

1320
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 1: Or ED can be watching somebody talking about military aviation

1321
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 1: and be like, wow, that guy is full of ship.

1322
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 1: But think about all the other people who are on

1323
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:51,520
Speaker 1: the news media talking about you know, the water poisoning

1324
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,799
Speaker 1: and flint or um that we don't know anything about.

1325
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: But we don't and so then to make sure you

1326
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: get like what how is it? You know? And so

1327
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: we just have to we just have to nod our

1328
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: head and be like okay. It's also like you watch

1329
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: the BAX news and it's like, how is it that

1330
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: every female expert also looks like they could be a model?

1331
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Is this really the number?

1332
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: Or is it that viewers find this woman attractive? You know? Yeah,

1333
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: well they look they know how to sell advertising. I mean,

1334
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: it's um, but I think that it's just you know,

1335
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 1: and I'm not advocating for compulsory military service, but I

1336
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: mean I think if everybody even did like six months

1337
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: of some sort of military service in this country. Then

1338
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, you get a lot much more of a

1339
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: broad based education and an understanding. And it's just um,

1340
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: it's they're like you said, there is that schism. There

1341
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: is um and it's it's just and and it's mysterious too,

1342
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: like people don't really know and they're kind of wow,

1343
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 1: what's going on? And you see these you know the

1344
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: you know, there's these enemies, these elusive, crazy, the weird

1345
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 1: enemies like lurking in the shadows. You know al Kayed

1346
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 1: to Taliban, you don't really know anything about him, and um,

1347
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 1: and then you know these guys are going over and

1348
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: they're getting dropped off in the middle of the night.

1349
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: And I mean, at least in earlier if those guys

1350
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: are just making it up as they went along, you know, um,

1351
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: there wasn't anything. I mean, they definitely had tactics all

1352
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, but it was It's just it's

1353
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: very mysterious and it's alluring in that mystery. Um, and

1354
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: people they just don't they I think they want to

1355
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 1: make something out of it that's more than it really is.

1356
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 1: You know, like you've been on tons of combat operations shack,

1357
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, I mean, I remember the

1358
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 1: first time I got I mean, I remember everything. I

1359
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: got in a firefight once in the Afghanistan and the

1360
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: team commander gave me the M six team, let me

1361
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: shoot the Taliban, and I was that foggle war. There's

1362
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: no foggle war. I remember every fucking second part of

1363
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: my language of what happened with that. I mean, and

1364
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: I loved it, you know, it was it was wild,

1365
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: you know, but it's just kind of a you know,

1366
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: I know what that experience is like now most people don't.

1367
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: You know, the first time you're gonna expire fight and

1368
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 1: you shoot back and it's just, uh, it's just totally

1369
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: it's an unknown. It's mysterious and it's a learning and

1370
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: people just kind of want to know about it. Oh,

1371
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: who are these Navy seal guys and you know this

1372
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 1: and that Army ranger guys. What are you really doing?

1373
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:24,600
Speaker 1: And what do they really with a lot of what

1374
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: I get a lot of this, like, Hey, my son

1375
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 1: wants to go into the military and they're going to

1376
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: give them these pills, and I understand that these pills

1377
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: can have long term effects. I'm like, yeah, those pills

1378
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: are probably to keep them from getting malaria or you know,

1379
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: some other nasty pathogen, so they're you know, they're fine

1380
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: to say. You know, you've probably heard that, right, yeah,

1381
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: oh yeah. So I've seen all those like Facebook memes

1382
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 1: of like, you know, who do you trust on vaccines,

1383
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: like millions of doctors were not millions of doctors whatever,

1384
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: thousands of doctors or you know some yoga teacher who

1385
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: posts memes on Facebook. You know. Well, it's it's interesting too,

1386
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: because there's just like methos that we've built up about

1387
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 1: ourselves and like how badass we are. And that's why

1388
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: people can't believe that, you know, Navy seals got ambushed

1389
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: and killed by seven dudes, or that a helicopter got

1390
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: shot down in a random you know, a random chance.

1391
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: We thank you very much for bringing that point up.

1392
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's a great, very important point. And I

1393
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: don't know if it's so much the you guys you know,

1394
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: meaning members of Special Operations Command, but it's people who

1395
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,919
Speaker 1: are on the book writing side and the movie making side.

1396
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, everybody likes heroes, and you know a lot

1397
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: of people, you know, I I work for myself, and

1398
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 1: I kind of do what I want to do, and

1399
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: so I don't. I've never worked in an office and

1400
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: I've never done the day to day in grinding and

1401
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: grind out. And you know, it's sort of that people,

1402
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: I think one of vicariously experienced these heroics, you know,

1403
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: and and they get wrapped up in that. And there's

1404
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: there's people who write books and who make movies who

1405
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: will deliver that fantasy, and in that fantasy propagates and

1406
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: pretty soon what was once a fantasy is now considered

1407
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: you know. Like I've had people say to me, how

1408
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: how there you say that Navy Seals four Navy Seals

1409
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: can be taken out by seven Taliban And I'm like,

1410
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 1: oh yeah, because when you're in the Navy Seals, your

1411
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: body is no longer subject to the ballistic properties, supersonic

1412
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: weapons systems and explosions. You know, you've got a special

1413
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: force field, you know. I mean, it's this nonsense. Well,

1414
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 1: for a long time, it's I've I've selfishly said that

1415
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 1: I hope Hollywood keeps making these movies about seals because

1416
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:37,959
Speaker 1: I don't want any movies made about rangers and special forces.

1417
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about the unit times and just keep

1418
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 1: making these seal movies have at it. But now we

1419
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: have this movie coming out where Thor plays a Special

1420
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 1: Forces captain in Afghanistan, so we're gonna have to suck

1421
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: it up through that. I guess. Yeah, I don't even know.

1422
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't pay attention to the movie stuff. I've never

1423
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: seen any of these films. I've never seen the Loan

1424
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: Survivor move I've never seen I've never seen any of

1425
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,680
Speaker 1: the people ask me about it all the time. What

1426
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: was that one about Benghazi? I didn't see that. Yeah,

1427
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. I don't want I don't watch

1428
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't I can't watch those movies. I did watch

1429
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: Loan Survivor, and it actually is it's a good movie,

1430
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: and it's not as fictional. It's still very fictional. It's

1431
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:21,640
Speaker 1: it's it's actually better than the book. I mean, the

1432
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: book is is laughable. You know. I used to not

1433
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: come out and publicly say that, but I remember when

1434
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 1: it came out. Matt Bartle's was the guy um who

1435
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 1: was the commander of Camp Blessing, which was very close

1436
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 1: to where all this happened, I mean was seven miles

1437
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: and Matt and his marines and Pat Kinser and his

1438
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 1: Marines who Pat was based there was Matt. Those guys

1439
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: did all this counter certainty outreach into the guys in

1440
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 1: in the Sherike Valley and they were personal friends with

1441
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 1: Galab And when this book Lone Survivor came out, I

1442
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 1: remember driving my car. I was heading actually down to

1443
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:58,759
Speaker 1: Mcast Human Marine Corps Station hum But to do a project.

1444
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 1: It was like in May two thousand seven, and I

1445
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: was driving my land Wherever and I had my BlackBerry

1446
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: Pearl on speaker phone, and I was passing Wesley on

1447
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 1: Interstate fives Town there I strive Tomato trucks through there

1448
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 1: telling that reading passages from Lone Survivor, and we were

1449
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: howling with laughter about how absurd it was. Like we

1450
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 1: just couldn't even it was unbelievable, and just thinking, We're

1451
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:26,839
Speaker 1: just like, how can they say this this absolute nonsense?

1452
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: Have you have you read the book? I've never read

1453
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: it cover to cover. No, I've read pett Do you

1454
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I mean there's this

1455
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: one part in the book where like he like blames

1456
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,600
Speaker 1: the liberal media for what happened that day, and I

1457
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: was like, dude, I mean, like you're gonna blame your

1458
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 1: country for the decisions you made in combat. Like I've

1459
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: made bad decisions in combat. I'll say that openly. And

1460
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: I'm writing a book about about some of that stuff.

1461
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,480
Speaker 1: And I've made poor decisions, and I am solely responsible

1462
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 1: for all of those decisions. Like there is not America's fall,

1463
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 1: It's not even the Range of Regiment's fault. It's my phone. Um,

1464
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 1: that's it. To to be fair, he didn't write that book.

1465
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 1: I mean like three three five minute interviews and it

1466
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 1: was not written by Marcus Trell Robinson. And so that's

1467
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, I mean. And the other thing too is

1468
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: Navy seals and Navy seals are not book authors. And

1469
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: it's you know, knowledge amongst all these units is you know,

1470
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 1: very compartmented. There's no reason that guy in seventy Ranger

1471
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,919
Speaker 1: Regiment who is I don't know anything about the seventeenth

1472
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 1: Range of Regiment. But like most of you guys are

1473
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: loving Bravos and you know, and you know your inventory

1474
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 1: light invagry guys, and what how why should you know

1475
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: what a nine line is? That's for this combat control

1476
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 1: over here from Special Tactics Squad. Well mean a nine

1477
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 1: line METAVAC I mean every soldier knows that well, I

1478
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: mean like nine A nine line for a you know,

1479
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 1: for a close air support. Oh no, but I I

1480
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:57,719
Speaker 1: get what you're saying. Though. You're right that these units,

1481
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, very compartmentalized. Um. You know,

1482
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: there's so many things that I've come to learn about

1483
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: what was going on right under my nose, and I

1484
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: can find out until years later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

1485
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 1: mean it's um. So, I mean that's that's you know,

1486
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 1: I walk up, you know a line. I used to

1487
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: just be very I never would say anything in public

1488
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: about it, you know, because you but my book came

1489
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 1: out to almost ten years ago. Now I was into

1490
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: oh nine, and you know it's it's um. To this day,

1491
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 1: no one's ever refuted anything in it, and I've never

1492
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, Oh, I guess I'm bashing alone survivor now,

1493
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: but I don't even really care. It's it's it's just

1494
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: such a you know, you you you write a book

1495
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,680
Speaker 1: and it's to be it's supposed to be nonfiction, and

1496
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: it's just so filled with nonsense. Um, and it doesn't

1497
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: do anybody any good, you know who It hurts in

1498
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 1: the long runs, Navy seals. You know in Special Operations Command.

1499
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: I mean, you want to write a book about this stuff,

1500
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 1: be accurate, you know, be accurate, take the time to

1501
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: talk to people who know it's on fortunate, a lot

1502
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: of these books are written with one or two sources only.

1503
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 1: It's dangerous and you can do that. Yeah, and it overall,

1504
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 1: it creates these misconceptions and poor perceptions of what's really

1505
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: going on out there. Yeah. But and then also when

1506
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 1: I asked people, when they asked and they said, hey,

1507
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:19,879
Speaker 1: tell me about like, you know, accuracy and more reporting,

1508
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: and what do you need to have a military? You

1509
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: need too things. You need people and money, and you

1510
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: know Congress controls the money and the people who control

1511
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: like who wants to go into the military. You know

1512
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:33,760
Speaker 1: a lot of the media and stuff like that and

1513
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: so different. You know, they used to bash the Marine

1514
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: Corps for being media whores, and maybe that was true

1515
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: a long time ago. But you know, you see a

1516
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: lot of people it's uh, I don't know who's respond

1517
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: who's responsible for it, if there's any particular military unit

1518
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: responsible for it. But once people who pay taxes which

1519
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 1: funds the military, and once people who have kids, and

1520
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 1: when I turn eighteen, seventeen, eighteen nineteen, and they want

1521
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: to do something with their lives. Starts being like, wow,

1522
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 1: we're getting lie to you know, what are these guys doing?

1523
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,720
Speaker 1: You know, then all of a sudden, you know, the

1524
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: military is not such a popular thing anymore. And you

1525
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: know I'm saying hypothetically, but it's it's you know, there's

1526
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 1: something to be said for just telling the truth that

1527
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: the fact that seven dudes overwhelmed them in a fifteen

1528
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: second ambush. Uh. You know, because there's two guys standing

1529
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: out trying to get calms on out five radium. There

1530
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 1: was one guy access and there was a little bit

1531
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 1: to the north of them, and there's one guy Latrell,

1532
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: who was a little bit farther down the hill from them,

1533
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:35,600
Speaker 1: and they hit those two guys first and there it

1534
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 1: was over, and you know, we'll I'll save the rest

1535
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 1: for later. But you know, that is you know, there's

1536
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: nothing there's no less bravery or anything else that comes

1537
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 1: from those that's from that versus a forty five minute firefight.

1538
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 1: You know, technically it was about that long as there

1539
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: was shots being fired, but the actual meat it was

1540
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: very short. But you know, there's nothing any less heroic

1541
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: about that. Then these guys like branding fighting, Yeah, they

1542
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 1: fought bravely and there's no need to church it up

1543
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 1: with all this other nonsense exactly, you know, And I

1544
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 1: know you you know, I've been on only in a

1545
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: handful of firefights some shape and in tont of them.

1546
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's just, um, you know, it's it's

1547
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 1: scary stuff. And and once people once she that's the thing,

1548
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:23,559
Speaker 1: like you know, once you get lied to you by people.

1549
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have friends that have led to you

1550
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:27,759
Speaker 1: that they're still your friends, you're kind of like, yeah,

1551
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: well all right, you just don't really trust them anymore,

1552
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 1: you know. And it's it's I'm probably gonna write about it.

1553
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know I will write about it

1554
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 1: in this book. But I was on one operation I

1555
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: used it. I use this um example too about to

1556
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 1: tell people about, you know, the whole notion of like

1557
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: what is true. So I was on this one mission

1558
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: where we went out on an h VT strike outside Missoul.

1559
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: We pulled up the guy that h VT was was

1560
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: trying to escape. He was trying to um run off

1561
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: the objective and disappear, and our r oe said, we

1562
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 1: can shoot guys who are They're not surrendering, They're just

1563
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,679
Speaker 1: trying to make their get away to fight another day.

1564
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: So the entire task force opens up on this dude

1565
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: and shoots him and including my gun or on my

1566
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: my striker, And I saw the whole thing with my

1567
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,759
Speaker 1: own eyes. The second we get back to the base.

1568
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: I get back there and there's guys telling me, oh,

1569
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 1: that guy his name was a Yad, like he was

1570
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: shooting a glock over his shoulder, like he was running

1571
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: away from us while shooting a glock pistol over his

1572
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: shoulder at us. And he's like, yeah, we saw the

1573
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 1: whole thing on I s R. And I'm like, dude,

1574
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And I think, you know, I think

1575
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: they were trying to cover their ass in case anyone

1576
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: asked questions, even though it was within the R and B.

1577
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: But I could see this narrative being, this fictional narrative

1578
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: being created just like literally minutes after the killing happened. Yeah,

1579
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,679
Speaker 1: you brought up a really interesting point. You said something

1580
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 1: that's really that I would never be able to just

1581
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's this truth is stranger than fiction. Yeah,

1582
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: I s our feeds, predator feeds flear uh, Pad's pinba

1583
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 1: any type of feed that comes down you can well

1584
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 1: Tad's pinnas and an Apache that doesn't that's not trying.

1585
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,120
Speaker 1: Maybe it is now and the new blocks. But I've

1586
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 1: had people tell me, yeah, I watched the Red Wings

1587
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 1: uh incident on on a predator. People swear up and

1588
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 1: down and they put that on the internet and the

1589
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, people are citing that like, oh yeah,

1590
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 1: this guy said he saw it. There was no there

1591
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 1: was no predator on station. You know. There there's people

1592
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: I've heard this so many times before about extortion one seven.

1593
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I watched it happened. I was in Iraq

1594
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: at the time, and we had we were the uh

1595
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: we're in the Jaysak you know, talk and you know,

1596
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 1: we've got all these feeds everywhere, and it's like, okay,

1597
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:42,800
Speaker 1: so you saw what and you're saying you saw this

1598
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 1: and there was no there was no there was no

1599
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: sensor on like on station you know. I mean there

1600
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,639
Speaker 1: was in a different part of the valley. But and

1601
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 1: I've heard that, not a lot, but enough that it's

1602
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 1: people i think just want to believe it and they

1603
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 1: make it up and they've seen enough. Editor fees and

1604
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 1: they kind of know what it looks like. They've got

1605
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: the cool symbology with the grids and the upper left

1606
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 1: and the X and all that kind of stuff, and

1607
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 1: they imagine that they saw it, and it's just it's

1608
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm not I'm not saying I'm this

1609
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,560
Speaker 1: insallible source, and but you know, I I'm at a

1610
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: point now where, you know, because I get this stuff,

1611
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: you know, handed to me, and you know, I know

1612
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:25,919
Speaker 1: what it looks like, and I study it very carefully.

1613
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 1: And it's even if you have it, it's there's stuff

1614
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: that you can miss, and there's stuff that just doesn't

1615
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: even exist that people think, whoa Joe over there, he

1616
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: was he's got a friend in the who's going to

1617
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: be a navy stealer? He said he saw he said

1618
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 1: he saw a predator imagery. He saw it on YouTube. Well,

1619
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: this is of this ambush. This is also like a

1620
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 1: little crash course for aspiring military journalists are like how

1621
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 1: difficult it is to really ascertain what happened in a firefight,

1622
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: like exactly, yep, yep, there's something, there's some details you

1623
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: might just never be able to really find out, you know,

1624
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: And it's just incredibly difficult. Yeah, and that's the thing

1625
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: with any of this stuff. And it really helps when

1626
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: you got gun tape, I'll tell you that much. Um,

1627
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 1: it really helps when you got gun tape, because gun

1628
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 1: tape doesn't lie. Uh. And I've even had people, um

1629
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: trying to be as vague about this as possible, but

1630
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 1: I've had people say to me, well, even if you

1631
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: have the gun tape, you know, there's another sensor from

1632
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,639
Speaker 1: another aircraft that could have been pointed at another part

1633
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: of the valley, another part of this. And there's always

1634
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: a way that people try to like worm the way

1635
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 1: out of it. So so it could have happened. It

1636
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,840
Speaker 1: could have been four Caliban fighters. They just weren't on

1637
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:47,839
Speaker 1: the camera, you know, right. Sure. I had a friend

1638
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: or a an acquaintance really who is a seal officer,

1639
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: and he told me this great story about how, um,

1640
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 1: he got into a firefight in Afghanistan, him and his

1641
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: unit and when they got to their FOB and they

1642
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: were doing the A R M. Him and his teammate,

1643
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 1: who were right next to each other in this firefight,

1644
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 1: they both like completely disagreed with what had happened on

1645
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 1: the ground. Uh, And they could not resolve between each other. UM. So,

1646
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean, to their credit, they were they were trying

1647
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: to be truthful, um and and tell things from their

1648
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 1: perspective rather than cook up a narrative. Um. But but

1649
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:26,600
Speaker 1: from an A. R perspective, it didn't make sense, like

1650
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 1: this guy is saying this, this guy's saying that, and

1651
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: it didn't didn't make sense. So he said that we

1652
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 1: had to wait like two or three days for the

1653
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 1: I SR footage to come back. And when it finally

1654
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:37,679
Speaker 1: did come back and they looked at it, it showed

1655
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 1: that we were both wrong. Let's say you say two

1656
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 1: plus two goals four and I say two plus two

1657
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:45,759
Speaker 1: goals five. Does it mean that it's four point five?

1658
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 1: Do we like agree in the middle. No, I'm wrong,

1659
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: You're right, you know. And that's the problem with people

1660
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,720
Speaker 1: making compromises and these things like, well, this guy thinks

1661
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: that it might have been this. Oh, that guy thinks that.

1662
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 1: In my business, No, here's what we got. Here's the

1663
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: pronerance of evidence points to they're being blankety blank at

1664
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:07,919
Speaker 1: this location, at this time, this engagement occurred, this asset

1665
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 1: resolved p I D. They engage with this GBU and

1666
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:16,160
Speaker 1: there was collateral damage Okay, here it is done. You

1667
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like that's that's that's and

1668
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 1: you don't want to compromise with the truth. You know

1669
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 1: you can't, but something happens. It's as old as time.

1670
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean, hence the term war story, right yeah. Yeah.

1671
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: But I think the other thing is, um, it's why

1672
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: you really gotta be be careful. People really have to

1673
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: be careful to corroborate and to get as many sources

1674
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:44,839
Speaker 1: as possible and to be able to corroborate those sources.

1675
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 1: I I was involved with someone and we had a

1676
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 1: book deal, and thank god he backed out of it

1677
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:56,719
Speaker 1: because it turns out that he, he and the truth

1678
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:03,840
Speaker 1: were um he from my perspective to say that, uh

1679
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: we're ahead, we're not quite in phase with one another.

1680
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 1: Um and uh boy dodged the bull there. So and

1681
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 1: it was he was it was going to be a

1682
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: single source book and I'll never do that again. Well,

1683
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 1: um so I was just gonna say, I mean, I

1684
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 1: give you credit for putting out both of these books

1685
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, because I know you're opening yourself

1686
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: up to a ton of criticism, especially not being a

1687
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 1: part of the community. You know, the way that you're

1688
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: getting death threats and stuff. I fully believe it. So,

1689
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 1: I mean, the older book that we're discussing is Victory Point,

1690
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 1: Operation Red Wings and Whalers. Uh. The newer one that

1691
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,559
Speaker 1: came out early or I should say late last year

1692
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:49,559
Speaker 1: since now is the final mission of Extortion seventeen Special

1693
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 1: Ops Helicopter Support Seal Team six and the Deadliest day

1694
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 1: of the U S War in Afghanistan. You also have

1695
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: a lot of other books more nature related. Um. And

1696
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 1: if checking edge website, you have some really awesome photography,

1697
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: some of it for sale and prints. Um, if you're

1698
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 1: into any nature related photography. So it's Derek dot com

1699
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,360
Speaker 1: d A R a c K dot com and Derek

1700
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. Uh yeah, anything else before we

1701
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:20,679
Speaker 1: wrap this up. This has been a really great episode

1702
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 1: having you on and a lot of a lot of truth,

1703
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:25,799
Speaker 1: a lot of hard truth that I think some people

1704
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, will not want to hear. But I think

1705
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: that it's it's important to have people like you're writing

1706
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 1: these books. I you know, I think I think people

1707
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 1: as as time has gone on, I think people are

1708
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 1: ready for it, you know, I really do. And and

1709
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of self criticism I I I've work

1710
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 1: in a lot of fields. I don't dabble in any

1711
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 1: of them. I'm very in depth with lots of them.

1712
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 1: But you know, I talked about you know, I've written

1713
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: about atmospheric refraction in the Green Flash, you know, and

1714
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 1: I've been on television talking about it, you know, and

1715
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on television in May talking about an

1716
01:32:55,760 --> 01:33:01,240
Speaker 1: operation Red Wings. So there's very fair, you know, criticism

1717
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 1: of me. You know, I know that I spend a

1718
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of time researching this and I'm basically just

1719
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 1: a co lader of information. I'm not an expert on

1720
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:14,719
Speaker 1: Red Wings per se. I just I'm able to get

1721
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: people and data about it that is expert, you know

1722
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 1: what I mean, and enough sources to be able to

1723
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 1: resolve with with a very high degree of clarity, and

1724
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: these other things too. So it's, um, it's just what

1725
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 1: you gotta do. It's just a way I think it's

1726
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: it's an epistemological approach to to uh, you know, from

1727
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 1: a very fundamental level, just really have to want the truth.

1728
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 1: So UM, thank you very much for having me on.

1729
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: I can continue to talk, you know, and thanks for

1730
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: mentioning the book. The extores you want Seven Stories amazing

1731
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 1: and I hope everybody buys that book in American reads it. Yeah,

1732
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on and I really appreciate it. And UM, yeah,

1733
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 1: I hope we can have you on again to talk

1734
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 1: about this stuff. I mean, if you're continuing your work,

1735
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: especially on these subjects, Um, we definitely have you on

1736
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 1: again and discuss that. Yeah. I got a great some

1737
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:06,719
Speaker 1: great projects going right now. So all right, awesome having

1738
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 1: ed on a lot of information there, and I'm sure

1739
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:11,760
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about that, you could

1740
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 1: pick up both of those books. Um. You know what

1741
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: I realized that I didn't. Oh, I actually was going

1742
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 1: to mention this before I even mentioned the next thing.

1743
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,880
Speaker 1: You were saying that you hope that there's no Army

1744
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 1: Ranger movies, But I mean, there is a Nick Irving

1745
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:25,800
Speaker 1: movie coming out. I don't know if you realized that.

1746
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I thought they were doing a TV show. Well, he

1747
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 1: talked about it on the last podcast he was on

1748
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 1: with us. You may remember. Attached to that TV show

1749
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: was a guy by the name of Harvey Weinstein. So

1750
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 1: if that's not gonna happen partially because of that, I

1751
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 1: don't know if that's the whole reason. But he did

1752
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: bring that up, so you know even better, it's now

1753
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: going to become a feature movie. That's it's funny you

1754
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,160
Speaker 1: say that, because, um, they this TV show I just

1755
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 1: did on Tesla. I think they pushed it out because

1756
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: there's a movie coming out about Tesla, and like the

1757
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:57,799
Speaker 1: movie is made. I think it was called Current Wars

1758
01:34:57,840 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to be out now, but it

1759
01:34:59,880 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 1: was a Harvey Weinstein production, So now it's like on hiatus,

1760
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 1: like no one knows, like legally they have to figure

1761
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 1: out what's going to happen with that production company. And

1762
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone knows. His name was attached to

1763
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 1: so much stuff. I mean, he was an extremely powerful

1764
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: guy in Hollywood, so yeah, not surprising. And then the

1765
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,040
Speaker 1: other thing I was going to bring up, of course,

1766
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,519
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw our friend Mike Ritland

1767
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 1: got to ring the bell of the New York Stock

1768
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: Exchange yesterday for a Warrior Doug Foundation, which I thought

1769
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: was pretty cool. Yeah, um, that is pretty cool. I

1770
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:33,920
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Yep, I put the video off. If

1771
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:37,440
Speaker 1: you go to our Instagram, uh softwarep Radio, I retweeted

1772
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 1: or re instagram that every want to say that stuff,

1773
01:35:40,479 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 1: so follow us on Instagram at softwarep Radio as we're

1774
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 1: wrapping things up. As a reminder for all of those

1775
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: who are listening, for a limited time you can receive

1776
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Speaker 1: a fifty percent discounted membership to softwarep TV, our channel

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Speaker 1: the most exciting mill terry content today. Softwarep TVs Premier

1779
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Speaker 1: show Training Cell follows former special Operations forces as they

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1781
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1782
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Speaker 1: and much more. Again, you can watch this content by

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Speaker 1: subscribing to soft Rep TV that's at soft rep tv

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1787
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Speaker 1: you haven't gotten a chance to check out the softwarep

1788
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Speaker 1: Crate Club, you're definitely gonna want to do that asap.

1789
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Speaker 1: It's a subscription to get a box of badass tactical

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Speaker 1: and survival gear delivered to your door every month. Here.

1791
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: I got mine yesterday. Happy with it? Yeah, Yeah, there's

1792
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:52,800
Speaker 1: a lot of cool stuff in there. There's actually a

1793
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: really cool uh gun safe. And you know who I noticed,

1794
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 1: Scott Um. One of the crates was Liz Carmucci. We

1795
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 1: had owned recently because I said, Sin is a great

1796
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, because she was great on the show and everything,

1797
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:06,120
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you're familiar with her, but

1798
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,639
Speaker 1: she was actually the first UM person to fight Ronda Rousy.

1799
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 1: The first female fight was Rousy versus Liz car Mooch

1800
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:17,839
Speaker 1: and it was is also a former Marine combat veteran,

1801
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,040
Speaker 1: so that's kind of the connection with the show, and

1802
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 1: had her on with Jim West of course. Yeah. I

1803
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:25,680
Speaker 1: mean whenever we have like a mixed martial artists, just

1804
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:28,640
Speaker 1: no one better to have on than Jim UM. So

1805
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Speaker 1: all of the gears handpicked and tested by former special

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1807
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1808
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Speaker 1: in the past have included gear like custom knives, multi tools,

1809
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1810
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Speaker 1: subscribe and start getting your gear visit great Club dot Us.

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Speaker 1: We also have gift options available. That's great Club dot Us.

1814
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:03,679
Speaker 1: It's been awesome having you back on here. Great interview

1815
01:38:03,680 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: that you wind up. Um yeah, man, and and I'll

1816
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 1: be seeing more of you every Tuesday and Thursday as

1817
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:11,960
Speaker 1: we record these and put them up. Everyone's thank god

1818
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm back. Yeah. I'm very happy to be back man,

1819
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:17,479
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to see that the response to your

1820
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 1: show has been good. So every Tuesday people can check

1821
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, it'll be on every Tuesday. There's five episodes. Um,

1822
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think they look really cool, but I

1823
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 1: mean I'm happy I did it, but at the end

1824
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: of the day, I mean it's not really my thing.

1825
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm glad if he's back from my normal work.

1826
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 1: Cool man. So yes, Tessler's Death ray a murder declassified.

1827
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:42,240
Speaker 1: Check that out on a discovery and we're out. You've

1828
01:38:42,280 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 1: been listening to self Rep Radio. New episodes up every

1829
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday for all of the great content from

1830
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: our veteran journalists. Join us and become a team new

1831
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 1: member today at soft rep dot com. Follow the show

1832
01:38:56,840 --> 01:39:00,840
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at slt rep Radio, and be

1833
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,040
Speaker 1: sure to also check out The Power of Fault podcast,

1834
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 1: hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal Sniper instructor

1835
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 1: Brandon Webb.