1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I am all in. Let's just do. 2 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 2: I Am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast. 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all In podcast, one 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: of them production's iHeart Radio. We've got one on one 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: interview with two very distinguished women, so it's really a 6 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: two on once, a one on two interview with Lara 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: Stash and Rachel Davidson. And they are notable in that. 8 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Lara's Assistant professor and Division of Communication, Visual Performing Arts 9 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: at Governor State University and writes about gender, rhetoric, popular culture. 10 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: She's an author of Breaking Bad Cultural History, Rowing in 11 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: a Little Field twenty seventeen. Rachel Davidson is Assistant professor 12 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: in the Department of Communication Hanover College. Or Research broadly 13 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: addresses rhetoric, rhetoric, and popular culture with interested in motherhood, caregiving, 14 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: and social advocacy. But they wrote a book. They got together. 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: They wrote a book called Gilmore Girls, A Cultural History. 16 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: It's no longer just a cult classic. Gillmore Girls is 17 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: a cultural staple for TV fans, so this is going 18 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: to be okay. So in Gilmore Girls a Cultural History, 19 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: the author's offering engaging analysis a popular see of the 20 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: popular series. The author examine how the show serves as 21 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: a representation of American culture, politics, reflects complexity within multiple 22 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: mother daughter dynamics, and unemployed literature, movies, music, and a 23 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: lot of cultural stuff that really smart academic ladies say. 24 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 1: So we've got them on. Thank you for coming on. 25 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: Ladies, thank you for having us. 26 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: We're very, very excited. So tell us about the book itself, 27 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: how it got started, How you two came up with 28 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: the idea. 29 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 4: I started watching Gilmore Girls back when I was in college, 30 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 4: So I mean, I have loved this series forever, A 31 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 4: huge fan. I've got my hep Alien shirt on which 32 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 4: your listeners cannot see, but I will let you know 33 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 4: I am a big fan. And I tried to convince 34 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 4: Rachel to watch the show, and Rachel so that you 35 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: will not know about her until I tell you this. 36 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 4: She is very stubborn and she wish not watch it 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 4: until finally and I said, there's so much here. You've 38 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: got two girls like you, you'll love it. There's all 39 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 4: this pop culture stuff. And she finally couldn't resist me 40 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 4: and watched it and fell in love. And so we 41 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 4: were trying to decide what we wanted to work on 42 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 4: our next project. And I said, after having I'd done 43 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 4: the Breaking Bad book, and I said, there's only one 44 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 4: other series that I know better than that one, and 45 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 4: that is Gilmour Girls. And she was like, I'm all. 46 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 3: In, So. 47 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: Man, here you are on I am all in. 48 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: I'm stubborn. And Lara is very patient because she waited 49 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: for me to watch this show for so long and 50 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: for me to get I think I needed my girls 51 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: to get to an age where they wanted to watch 52 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: the show with me. And then when I did, oh 53 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: my gosh, it just landed on me so hard. And 54 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: Lara I could we were talking on the phone and 55 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: I could see her smile just growing and she was 56 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: waiting for that moment. 57 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: Okay, so you're hooked. We're writing a book, all right. 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: So let me let me ask you the big question 59 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: right at the top. Why is the show such a 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: cultural staple for TV fans? 61 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 4: Because I, well, I think Star's Hollow is kind of 62 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 4: this bubble and you can have these crazy, cooky, off 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 4: the wall personalities and just genuine affection for one another 64 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 4: and community. You have these witty pop culture references, and 65 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 4: I think you've gotten into this in a lot of 66 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 4: your episodes in the podcast, is like every time you 67 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 4: watch it there's something new, right, Like every time you 68 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: make different connections. And I think there's just something about 69 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 4: being able to go back and visit it. I always 70 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 4: say Stars Hollow is my happy place, and I think 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 4: if I actually live there, it might drive me crazy. 72 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 4: But I love visiting and it just the relationships are important. 73 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 4: I don't know, everything just is. It's sort of this 74 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 4: beautiful package. 75 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: So mm hmmm, Rachel, how do you feel about that? 76 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: I would just add that I think you know one 77 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: comforting aspect of the show. Every time I watch one 78 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: of the shows that has a town meeting, and the 79 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: town meeting's full, and some people are annoyed, some people 80 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: are falling asleep, some people are enjoying it. But the 81 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: fact is that all the people are there. And I 82 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: think that's something that we are missing, at least I'm 83 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: missing in some of my communities that I've lived in, 84 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: is just to have all of these people that come 85 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: together for the benefit of their community, that cares so 86 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: much about their community. And I think that's what I 87 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: love about what a lot of people love about Stars Hollow, 88 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: In particular, a. 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,119 Speaker 1: Man that is an interesting observation because the town hall 90 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: meeting really roots the show in history, in American history, 91 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: because you can see going back to the eighteen hundreds 92 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: and seventeen hundreds, even the sixteen hundreds, you know, people 93 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: having those same types of meetings about what's going to 94 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: go on in that town and will they you know that, 95 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, you know this, this will these horses continue 96 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: to leave their droppings here and we've got to do 97 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: something that's affecting the chicken coop. And that's a very 98 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: very interesting conversation. It really does link the show toward 99 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, and it's an historic town as well. 100 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: So one of our chapters in the book is just 101 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: about that phenomenon, like what is it about stars Hollow 102 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: that is so appealing? And one a couple of things 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: that we wrote about is that, for one, Stars Hollow 104 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: is kind of untouched by commercialism. We're not seeing any 105 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: Starbucks or Applebee's or you know whatever. We have all 106 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: of these mom and pop shops. And then also just 107 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: the idea that, you know, one thing that we think 108 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: might be reflected in this in Stars Hollow is the 109 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: idea that there there's been a loss of small townness 110 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: in American culture, and so maybe Stars Hollow is one 111 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: way that we're kind of satisfying that need for community 112 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: and smallness and in our towns in which we live. 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I'm all 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: about small tones. Okay, So let's get into and and 115 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: And that is why people talk about stars Hollow as 116 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: a very very important character in the show, maybe the 117 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: most important character in the show, because what what a 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: what what a backdrop you know to bounce everything off of. 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, all modernity invading and how how conflicting and 120 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: how funny that can be and and hence you know, 121 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: the tone of the show. What. So let's talk about 122 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: the mother daughter relationship. I know you want to get 123 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: into that. So what are your thoughts on h on 124 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: on the Lurlai Rory relationship. 125 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: I think that is why there are so many viewers 126 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 4: of different ages that find something because it's like the 127 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 4: r Rory Lrelai relationship, but also the Laurel I Emily 128 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 4: relationship and the Emily Rory relationship and the missus Kim 129 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 4: and Lane relationship. Like there's all these mother daughter dynam 130 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 4: that just can appeal to everyone. Right, Like my mom 131 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 4: watched the show. Rachel's daughters watched the show. We sort 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: of spanning generations who absolutely love watching that, and I 133 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: think we get into this, you know that I'm always 134 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 4: fascinated by people that are like I want to be 135 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 4: like you know, Rory and laurl I with my daughter 136 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 4: or whatever, or my mother. And it's like their relationship 137 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 4: was dysfunctional in a lot of ways, like it was 138 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 4: it was meant to be kind of, you know, not 139 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 4: perfect imperfect, which I think is also a comfort because 140 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 4: they cared about each other so much even if it wasn't. 141 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: Perfect, right right, right, Laura, you said that beautifully. The 142 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: only thing I would add is, you know, speaking to 143 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: what Laura was talking about, as how it appeals to 144 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: different generations and where you're at at different stages in 145 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: your life. I remember my mom just recently telling me 146 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: that she was drawn to the show when it first 147 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: came out because of the representation of Laura as a 148 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: single mother, which was something and not just the representation 149 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: of a single mother, but one that is without shame 150 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: about that kind of status. And my mom was in 151 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: a similar situation and she loved that there was a brilliant, funny, witty, 152 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: single mother who who you know, she could see in 153 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: a situation similar to her own, So that it's one 154 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: thing I think that the show did really well too. 155 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: So in a way, Laurel I was a real touchstone 156 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: for all mothers, and especially all single mothers, and especially 157 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: all daughters of single mothers or daughters that wish their 158 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: fathers wouldn't be there, because she went through life saying 159 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: everything that every mother, married or single wishes they had said, 160 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: because she's basically going through life as a stand up 161 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: comic and making light and making fun and being irreverend 162 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: and being hysterically funny and being herself and being and 163 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: keeping her power all at the same time. 164 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 3: And I think too unapologetically herself. I think maybe that's what. 165 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 2: I was trying to say with the same piece, right, 166 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: just yeah, just her authentic being, and that's okay. I 167 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: wish I could live my life like Lareli as a 168 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 2: stand up comedian. I'm not that quick on my feet. 169 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: Right, right, right right. It's so aspirational in that regard, 170 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: because I think it's one of the things I take 171 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: away from the show, say, boy, can you imagine going 172 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: through life like that? How fun would that be to 173 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: have that kind of a brain that's going to be 174 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: so quippy and so clever and so immediately boom all 175 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: the time, the fast and the funnies all the time, 176 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: and every. 177 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: Emily is very similar. 178 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: I mean one go for me, I think, you know 179 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: that is where I see Lorelai getting her wit and humor. 180 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: I think Emily, I mean, her delivery is very different 181 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: than Laurelize. Not necessarily as you know, a stand up comedian, 182 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 2: but oh my gosh, so many lap out loud moments 183 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: with Emily. 184 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: She's so I love that dynamic at Emily and Voorne. 185 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 4: Her values sort of come from a different place. But 186 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 4: even Emily's friends say, oh you're you're quick like your mother. 187 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: And a lot of the lines we pulled out best 188 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 4: line for every single episode. It's in the back of 189 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 4: the book, and a lot of the lines are Emily's 190 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 4: as much as they are Lorealies or the rest of 191 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 4: the town. Like everyone got good lines, which is I 192 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 4: think really important. 193 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: Can you go through the topics that the book covers. 194 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we look at relationships. The first part of 195 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 4: the book looks at the relationships. We look at the 196 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 4: mother daughter dynamic, we look at fatherhood, and representations like 197 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: with Luke and Richard and Christopher, because you know, he 198 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: was this really important father figure, although inconsistent, it was 199 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 4: a you know, sort of a huge part of the plot. 200 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 4: We look at friendship, and then we look at feminism 201 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 4: in the show and how the show really deals with 202 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 4: that and how Amy Sherman Palladino had talked about how 203 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 4: she wanted it to deal with it. And then we 204 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 4: look at popular culture and the value of talking about 205 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 4: popular culture. We look at issues of class because that's 206 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 4: a huge theme. I mean, it's it's the undercurrents why 207 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 4: more life ran right, and then the small town living. 208 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: It's also why she hasn't really changed that much. 209 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah. 210 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, the tension between the classes in her living in 211 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: a place that doesn't really recognize that. I mean, it's 212 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: it's just a brilliant It's a brilliant, brilliant jumping off point, 213 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: isn't it. It really is. I mean, if you were 214 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: going to conceive a show, you know that would I mean, 215 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: and you said, because because what do writers do when 216 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: they're creating drama or they're creating comedy. They have to 217 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: create tension? So what brilliant, brilliant brilliant way to configure 218 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: some characters and just it just all works. I mean 219 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: it works right away. 220 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, And starting in season one, you start to get 221 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 4: that tension where Lorelai ran so far away from it 222 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: and now Rory's inching her way back and Laura cannot 223 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: wrap her head around it. She doesn't know how to 224 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 4: feel about it, and it's complicated. It's the relationship with 225 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 4: her parents, but it's also just that life. And you 226 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 4: see that throughout every season. She starts dating Logan, she starts, 227 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 4: you know, sort of when Rory gets out of that 228 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 4: limo after the party after Dean breaks up with her, 229 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 4: and she's wearing the diamonds and she's like clearly had 230 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 4: a little bit to drink and she you know, and 231 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 4: Laura's just looking out the window. It's just the saddest 232 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 4: because it was not what she wanted for her daughter. 233 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's maybe what she wanted for herself and 234 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: what missed out. 235 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 4: On, Yes, and attention constantly is it that she feels 236 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: like maybe she didn't want to run so far from 237 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 4: that life. She like went too far to extremes, which 238 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: would totally fit with Laura because she's, you know, she's 239 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 4: not perfect. She makes pretty extreme choices, right. 240 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, we were just discussing her 241 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: marriage proposal to Luke. So let's talk a little bit 242 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: about the Luke and Laura l I dynamic here. Do 243 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: you go into the talk discuss that discuss. 244 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: That we love Luke. 245 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 4: I'm telling each other, do not call him Luke. His 246 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 4: name is Scott. 247 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: Yes. 248 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: And before I forget Scott, I wanted to tell you 249 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: I promised my My youngest daughter is eighteen. Her name 250 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: is Ivy, and she wanted me to tell you that 251 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: Luke is her favorite character because Luke reminds her of 252 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 2: her dad, which is my husband John. And also she 253 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: loves the sarcasm and your your humor, Luke's humor. 254 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: Shout out to Ivy, Ivy appreciate it. 255 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know. I've watched this series now. 256 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 4: I'm probably on my twelve viewing of it. I kind 257 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 4: of keep it on in the background, so it's kind of, 258 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 4: you know, always going. But I was watching it recently 259 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: and I think there's this episode, the eight o'clock at 260 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 4: the Oasis episode where Richard calls Laurali and he's like, 261 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 4: you have to fix this situation. You got to go 262 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 4: on that second date with Peyton played by John Hamm 263 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 4: right like you have to fix this. He's like, your 264 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 4: mother did not get the first cup of tea. And 265 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 4: they go back and forth and she's like this is insane, 266 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 4: and he goes, of course it's insane, like this is insane, 267 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 4: but my wife wants that tea. She's getting the first 268 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 4: cup of tea. So we're gonna fix this. And I 269 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 4: it occurred to me that it was beautiful, Like that's 270 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 4: the most romantic moment they have, like this love where 271 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: he's just like, I know it's crazy, but I'm gonna 272 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 4: make it happen for her. And I think Luke does 273 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 4: that for LAURALI I think consistently realizes that what she 274 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 4: wants is sometimes crazy and wacky, and she, like you know, 275 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 4: has all these sort of zany ideas, and he makes 276 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: it happen. Builds an isolating rink, and he creates a 277 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 4: fishing pond, and he bakes a cake for her daughter, 278 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 4: and you know, like he just he's there for her 279 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: and even if it's not something he understands fully, he 280 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 4: is there to help her. And so I think that's 281 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 4: why their relationship is just so fun to watch and 282 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 4: so romantic. 283 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: It's so romantic, and I love the the slowness over 284 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: the seasons of how it evolves and changes and how 285 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: tension is is created. I just I love from the 286 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: very first episode how Luke you know, portrays this like 287 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: protective you know, protective persona over both Rory and laurel I. 288 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: One of my favorite episodes is when Luke rents or 289 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: buys the the self help tapes about love and tries 290 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 2: tries to hide them, but then he sees Laurali's face 291 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: and then he's like, whoa is I just love it love. 292 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 3: Yes, I love that relationship. 293 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: And one thing I think is really cool and was 294 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: distinct about Luke and Larelli's relationship as opposed to Larelei 295 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: and some of her other suitors was I think Luke 296 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 2: bridged both. 297 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: Like passionate love and companionate love. 298 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: So there was something It wasn't just that romantic side, 299 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: but then there was also the long term companionate aspect 300 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: of their relationship. 301 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: Right. They knew how to relax and hang with each other, right, Yeah, 302 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: it wasn't all needy all the time. Yeah, you're talking 303 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: about two pretty rebellious individuals who were really rooted in 304 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: their individuality coming together and not sort of trying to 305 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: invade each other's territory all the time. So there's a 306 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: lot it's still a lot of tension there too, and 307 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: there's like that class element to it because he ate 308 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: from the upper rungs is a soyah. It was an 309 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: interesting dynamic, wasn't it. Yeah, it really was. Let's look 310 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: at it from I mean, you brought up this feminist angle, right, 311 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: and Amy shrim Palladino obviously steeped this show in feminism 312 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: and talk about that as it relates to luc and 313 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: Laurelized relationship and one thing specifically is that she proposed 314 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: to him and how that sort of turned this all 315 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: on its head. So talk about the feminist aspect first 316 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: and how it affects that relationship. 317 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I think the show does a really good job. 318 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 4: We sort of talk about it in the book as 319 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 4: like being very representative of contemporary feminism at the time. 320 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 4: I think we've seen a bit of a shift post 321 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 4: like Weinstein Me Too situation, But prior to that, these 322 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 4: conversations were kind of couched. We talked about it, you know, 323 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 4: but I think sort of this idea of bad feminism. 324 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 4: Roxanne Gay, she's a feminist who brought up this idea 325 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 4: of bad feminism and that there's not just this one 326 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 4: way to be feminist. And so I think although Lorelai 327 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 4: is very independent, I think she relies on Luke a lot, 328 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 4: and I think that's part of her journey is figuring 329 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 4: out how to let someone into her life and why 330 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 4: it's such a slow build, but like let someone into 331 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 4: her life and be a partner for her, because she 332 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 4: really sort of embraced this, like it's just me and 333 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: my daughter and I'm going to make this work, and 334 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 4: she did a great job with it. But then her 335 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 4: daughter goes off to school and has a life, and 336 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 4: season four is all about her trying to figure out, like, 337 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 4: now what is she going to do with her life? 338 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 4: You know? So I think this show really plays with 339 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 4: the tensions of feminism where we do it. It's not 340 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 4: this idea of radical feminism, it's how do we do 341 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 4: feminism in everyday life? And I think Luke was a 342 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 4: great counterpart because he was both masculine but also very 343 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 4: compassionate in his own way, and I love that she proposed. 344 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 4: And then you'll get into you know, in season six 345 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 4: when you guys start covering that, like there's a bit 346 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 4: of tension there for him, where the town is kind 347 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 4: of questioning like, oh, she proposed right, like, and he 348 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 4: has to try to deal with that and figure out like, Okay, 349 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 4: how do I feel about this? No, I'm fine with it, right, 350 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 4: And so I think their dynamic together sort of highlights 351 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 4: any kind of I don't know, tensions with that. 352 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: So I have stated previously that I had a problem 353 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: with her proposing to Luke because it was coming from 354 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: a really greedy kind of actor place where I wanted 355 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: to play those scenes and I didn't get a chance to, 356 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think that's really all 357 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: it is. Anyway, Rachel, go ahead and chime in, Oh. 358 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: I was just gonna actually shift just a tiny bit. 359 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: The other part in our book where we're talking about 360 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: feminism is in the friendship chapter, which was really interesting 361 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 2: to us and for Lauren and I to plush this out. 362 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 2: But you know, typically what we, you know, at this time, 363 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: would have seen in the portrayal of women is women 364 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 2: in competition with each other. You know, women not very 365 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: nice to each other, women not supporting each other. So 366 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: one very refreshing aspect that we saw reflections of feminists 367 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: and is all of these wonderful female friendships and supporting 368 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: each other and supporting so that the emphasis isn't always 369 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: on romantic relationships, but also in these these very functional 370 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: female friendships between different women. 371 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: Laura and her mother were at odds so often did 372 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: you ever think, as fans watching the show and thinking 373 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: about it, uh post viewing, that Laurela had crossed the 374 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: line into into insanity and a complete uh not appreciate 375 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: what her mother was trying to do or whether her 376 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: father was trying to do. To talk about that a 377 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: little bit, I. 378 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 4: Mean, I think Amy Sherman, Palladino and Dani I think 379 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 4: they have so many episodes where we can sympathize with Emily. 380 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 4: I think lorele I is very well positioned as an 381 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 4: unreliable narrator. She reacts emotionally very quickly, She doesn't always 382 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 4: think things through, and she thinks she's right. And I 383 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 4: think this the scene where she goes storming into Emily's 384 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 4: house with Max Medina and is like, how couldn't you 385 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 4: you don't care that I'm getting married? You're so cold? 386 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 4: And Emily finally turns around and she's like, I know 387 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 4: how you feel. How would you fill if a stranger 388 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 4: told you your daughter was getting married? You know? And 389 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 4: for Emily in that moment, not Laura. Couldn't she just 390 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 4: tell her? Right? I mean, obviously conflict for the show, 391 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 4: but I think that she's a very sympathetic character in 392 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 4: a lot of ways while also being very frustrating as 393 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 4: a mother and sort of you can see both sides 394 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 4: of it a lot of times. And the one where 395 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: Laurai writes the letter dear Emily and Richard yea episode 396 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 4: is just you just want to give Emily a hug 397 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 4: and be like that must have been like torture, you know. 398 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: So, Rachel, why do you think Tricksie was kryptonite to Emily? 399 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: Why did Emily lose all her powers around Trixy? And why? 400 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: Let's yeah, so talk about that. 401 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 2: I love so Trixies and maybe three episodes right, and that, Yeah, 402 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: the dynamic that she brings in because I think in 403 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: those moments we're seeing I think Emily in the place 404 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 2: of Laura. I you know, we we wrote about you know, 405 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: that kind of back and forth and you know, one 406 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: thing that I have that I really loved in one 407 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: of the episodes that Laura just talked about, Dear Emily 408 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 2: and Richard, Trixy is not in there, so I'm debating 409 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 2: just a little bit. But the way in which the 410 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 2: show plays with identification with Emily, I think is really 411 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: really smart, especially in those those moments when we're getting 412 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: the backstory of Emily and we're seeing, you know, we're 413 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: starting to kind of understand and explain some of her 414 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: terrible behaviors towards Laurli and it starts to kind of 415 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: click with viewers. I think it makes sense, and I 416 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: think Trixy also does that, So we're starting to build 417 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 2: some sympathy. We're seeing Emily in a very different role, 418 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: not as you know, the Laurali's mom, but as a 419 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 2: daughter in law herself. Laura, I know you have stuff 420 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: to say about Tricksy too. 421 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know, I thought you that was great, Like, 422 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 4: I think it's fascinating because she's in that position and 423 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: yet she doesn't recognize how she does the same things 424 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: to Laura. So you're just like, we're not learning here, right, 425 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 4: But that's that's part of the I don't know, the 426 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 4: appeal and the fact that Tricksy does like laurle i values, 427 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 4: you know, gives her some validation for all that she's accomplished. 428 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 4: I think was really important. 429 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 2: And complicates as well, like the the arrangements between and 430 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: the connections that that that Emily is trying to maintain 431 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: in order to stay connected with Laura lyon y Where. 432 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: Do you guys fall on this this season? End of 433 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: season five, Rory going to living in the poolhouse at 434 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: Grandma's house and dropping out of Yale. 435 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 4: I think it was incredibly important. It needed to happen. 436 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: And it's funny because when you rewatch the series over 437 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 4: and over, you catch these moments and then I think 438 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 4: it's the pilot or the first, you know, the second episode, 439 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 4: Suki says to Laura, l I, now you know as 440 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 4: Rory's about to go to Chilton, right like still early. 441 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 4: Now you guys can have a normal mother daughter relationship 442 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 4: where you fight and you you know you have that. 443 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 4: And they still didn't really get there until this moment. 444 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 4: They had fights, but this is like off fight and 445 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 4: they have to figure it out separately, and I think 446 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 4: it was an incredibly important moment. It is like torture 447 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 4: to watch those though, because so much of the relate 448 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 4: there's so much of the show is their relationships, so 449 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 4: you're kind of in limbo. I love being able to 450 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 4: binge them because I can just get through those and 451 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 4: back to where they're together again. 452 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, as a viewer, it's so frustrating those months. I 453 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 2: think it's like in the narrative of the show, it's 454 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: five months maybe that they're separated, but then their reunification 455 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: is one of my favorite moments of the show because 456 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: I feel like, Okay, Laura, I putting all of these 457 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: topics of conversations, like things I need to talk to 458 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: Rory about when we come back together. 459 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: That's me. 460 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to steal that in case 461 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: I ever have any falling out with my children. But 462 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: it's just such a beautiful coming together moment after that. 463 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 2: And I agree with with Laura that as we were 464 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: writing about that, I think I came to understand and 465 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 2: appreciate that part of the show more than as a 466 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: viewer being frustrated. I think it was it was necessary, 467 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: and I think also it was now that I'm entering 468 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 2: into empty nester stage, like I'm appreciating that that part 469 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: of the show and Laura I really figuring out who 470 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 2: she is without Rory because you know, I'm learning that 471 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: your role as parent, Like I feel like I need 472 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: a parenting book, just a parent, you know, adult children. 473 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: And so that's a really interesting, you know phase that 474 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: the show that the show presents us with, but. 475 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: It is it is gosh, you know, it's such a 476 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: powerful then running through this is that everybody knows what's 477 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: going to happen. We know nobody's going to die, but 478 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: we do know that Rory is going to grow up. 479 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: We do know that she's going to go off to school. 480 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: We do know that she's going to graduate. We do 481 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: know that she's going to start her own life. And 482 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: isn't that really something to watch? That's separating from her 483 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: mom when they were so they started off so close 484 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: and then now that's drifting apart. That is that is 485 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: a powerful magnet for an audience. It really is. 486 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 2: And it's real too, you know, it's so real, real 487 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 2: things that happened. 488 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 4: Well, I think it was really important. Laura. I stood firm. 489 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 4: She has to figure this out on her own, she 490 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 4: has to make these mistakes. And Luke was like, we 491 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 4: gotta go get her, We got to go kidnapper, We 492 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 4: got to talk to her right, and it's like she's 493 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 4: going to have to figure this out and she's going 494 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 4: to make some major mistakes while she does this, and 495 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 4: it has to happen. And then right before they get 496 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 4: back together. Oh wait, have you you haven't gotten there. 497 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 4: I don't want to. I don't want to. 498 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: That's seasons. Please don't please. I haven't seen it yet. 499 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. That's okay, that's okay, all right, 500 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: So let's get into Rory's relationships. Okay, uh discuss you know, 501 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: the Deans, the Jesses, the Logans. Talk about those dynamics 502 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: and what they did or didn't do for Rory. 503 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 4: Well, I do want to say we were pretty anti 504 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: Logan in our book, and I think we both can 505 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 4: say that perhaps we were a little aggressive with that. 506 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: I feel like, uh, I sort of understand where that 507 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 4: comes from. Like Rory really experiences all the tropes of 508 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 4: romantic novels. She gets Dean, the jockslash motorcycle driver. He 509 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 4: was kind of he kind of his personality shifted a 510 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 4: bit by season two. Then she gets Jess, who's like 511 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 4: the bad boy but super smart and the only one 512 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 4: that could really understand what, you know, her level of 513 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 4: intelligence and she goes on to Logan, who's like this millionaire. 514 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 4: It's every trope and she gets to experience it. So 515 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 4: I do want to say, if anyone reads our book, 516 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 4: I'm a little less anti Logan, even though he was 517 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: my least favorite choice for Rory. And I think probably 518 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 4: we've talked about it a few times that perhaps we 519 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 4: were a little aggressive in our anti Logan sentiments in 520 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 4: the book. But yeah, I think I think when Rory 521 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: dates Jess and Luke's like, are we okay with this? 522 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 4: Like is this? Are you okay with it? Right? Because 523 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 4: you know, she really did not want that to happen, 524 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 4: and she says, I think it's about time for a 525 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 4: Jess and it's like, yes, that's you have to kind 526 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 4: of figure out who is your partner, right, Like who 527 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 4: is who are you compatible with? It's not always going 528 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 4: to be the same. And I think the parallels between 529 00:30:52,600 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 4: Dean and Luke and Christopher and Logan, like Dean he's 530 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 4: not the one for her, even though Luke is the 531 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 4: one for Laura, you know, and Jess brings something really 532 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 4: important for her. He's my favorite. I am totally team Jess, 533 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 4: but I don't think he's the best fit for her. 534 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: He is, he just doesn't give her what she needs. 535 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 4: I don't think Logan's the right fit. But clearly later 536 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 4: in life she you know, maybe continues that path. 537 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the acid test for me with Logan, 538 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: because I'm very fond of Logan and I think he's 539 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: super smart and I think he does give her what 540 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: he needs. But the thing is, the acid test is 541 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: ten years from now, when they're married, they have a 542 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: couple of kids, and he's running the empire, is Daddy's empire? 543 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: Is he going to cheat on her? Do you see 544 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: him cheating on her? And I kind of do? 545 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 4: Is Rory gonna cheat on him? 546 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: Pat? 547 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 4: I Meanyeah, She's a pretty complicated character, and it's yeah, 548 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 4: it's not necessarily sunshine and roses for everyone, Right, Rachel, 549 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 4: what you said in the book that you wanted her 550 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 4: to choose herself so she had a very. 551 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: Well I was going to say that also that if 552 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: I had to choose, I'm definitely team Jess. But in 553 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: our book we end that chapter with the possibility of 554 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 2: a fourth option, and that is Marty. 555 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: That's right, who's probably the best guy for her. He's 556 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: mister reliable, Yeah, Yeah, he's gonna make he's always going 557 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: to make a good living. He's always he's going to 558 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: get a teaching position at a smaller college, and he's 559 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: going to be the steady He's going to be steady, steady, 560 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: steady guy. He's going to love her, he's going to 561 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: worship her. It's going to be a great life for 562 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: those two. But she just doesn't get that spark from him, 563 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, yeah, I know, I've seen it 564 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: all that way, Yeah, seeing it all before. What was 565 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: your favorite part of the series. 566 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: I do just absolutely adore the female friendships, especially between 567 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: Lorle and I just I love Melissa McCarthy and I 568 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: just love what she did with that character. But I 569 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: just love that that was an aspect of the show. 570 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: It wasn't just focused on, you know, a romantic relationship. 571 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 2: But my favorite part did you say favorite moment or 572 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: favorite part. 573 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: Of the series or favorite part? 574 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 2: Okay, I love Kirk's short film that they play. I 575 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 2: think it's season two and it's at the Stars Hollow movie. 576 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 2: First of all, I love when Laura I thinks she's 577 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: going to be able to choose a film and she 578 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: she I think references Fletch and Arthur, which makes me 579 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: laugh every time, and Sophie's choice as well. But then 580 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: when we get to see Kirk's film that I just 581 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: thought the show is so smart. I just loved it. 582 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: Watch it frequently, right right right, Laura, one last idea here. 583 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: What was so distinct about the show compared to other 584 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: shows during that time two thousand and seven. 585 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 4: I mean, I think even on the network that it 586 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 4: was on the very first the pilot episode, Laura la 587 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,439 Speaker 4: I says to Rory, like I had DIBs on being 588 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 4: the beat to night right, Like you did not see 589 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 4: that on any shows that were airing on a family network. 590 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 4: And it was just a very real representation of how 591 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 4: people actually talk to each other, not these sappy moments. 592 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 4: And I think that was one of the comments that 593 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 4: Amy Sherman Palladino made, was like I didn't love the 594 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 4: close ups. I didn't want the emotional, like sad thing. 595 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 4: It was about making tragic figures funny. And I think 596 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 4: I watch it every time and I'm like, they are 597 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 4: They've got these tragic stories, all of them, and yet 598 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 4: it is so funny. So I think it was it 599 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 4: was I've never come across another show like it. Somebody 600 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 4: will say it's like Gilmore Girls, and I always watch 601 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 4: it and I'm like, no, more good. It's fine, but 602 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 4: it's not. Don't say it's like Gilmore Girls, because you 603 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 4: just can't do it. Even Marvelous Mismaans. I mean, that's 604 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 4: a totally different thing, right, It's it's it's it's just 605 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 4: it's sort of on its own. Son. 606 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just said to that too. 607 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 2: Just the quantity and the quality of the pop culture 608 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 2: references I think keeps people coming back to the show 609 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: because and there's someone a scholar that requoted in the 610 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: pop culture chapter that it's not so highbrow references where 611 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: it's like condescending to the audience. Some of the references 612 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: I know, and when I know them, I'm so proud 613 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: of myself and I feel really good. But then the 614 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 2: other references, I'm like, I'm going to go look that 615 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: up because Lorelai is super cool, and I want to know. 616 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 2: I want to read what she's reading or I want 617 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 2: to watch what she's watching. And I don't know how 618 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 2: Amy did that, Like, I don't know how she created 619 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 2: just very carefully these pop culture references that that keeps 620 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: people coming back I mean still when I rewatch it 621 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 2: now I I write down I need to look up 622 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 2: who you know, whoever whatever, look. 623 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 3: At this movie. 624 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 2: It cannot catch everything, which was very difficult when we 625 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 2: were writing this book, gather evidence. 626 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 3: It's tough. 627 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you that the type of couple 628 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: that goes on a vacation and they take a hundred 629 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: books with them, that's what they do on vacation. They 630 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: read no right, so but yeah, I agree with you. 631 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: That's that's that's the very special special sauce of the show. 632 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: I agree. Anyway, that's all the time we have. We 633 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: got to have you back on the show. It's a 634 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Rachel 635 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: Davidson at Lara Stage. The book is Gilmore Girls of 636 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: Cultural History. Go out and get yourself a copy. Thank you, 637 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: ladies so much, and hopefully talk soon. 638 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much. 639 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 4: Thank you very much. 640 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: Hey everybody and Tuls again. Follow us on Instagram at 641 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: I Am All In podcast and email us at Gilmour 642 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com.