Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is brought to you by ourselves. Hey, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to take a quick minute to talk about our
Speaker 1: print shop. We have my photography somem of Garrett Morrison's
Speaker 1: photography in our pro shop at proshop dot Thefridagg dot com.
Speaker 1: There you will find a photography tab. We have paper prints,
Speaker 1: we have frame paper prints, and we also have metal
Speaker 1: prints just to give you an idea. Those metal prints
Speaker 1: are really unique, bright prints that will spruce up any
Speaker 1: room as well as your traditional paper print and frame
Speaker 1: paper print. So we have a ton of courses including
Speaker 1: this week's Ryder Cup Venue, Whistling Straits on there. Others
Speaker 1: included Ballyneil, Kingsley Club, Sand Valley, pas Tempo Prairie Dunes,
Speaker 1: among many other stream song. We have a ton of
Speaker 1: courses up there, a ton of different prints, a ton
Speaker 1: of op If you're looking for something else that you
Speaker 1: may have seen us post, feel free to reach out
Speaker 1: on the contact us page. We are doing twenty percent off.
Speaker 1: That's not an insignificant amount of money off and use
Speaker 1: the code RC twenty twenty. That's our C twenty twenty
Speaker 1: for twenty percent off. Today's episode is a conversation about
Speaker 1: Whistling Straits between myself and Garrett Morrison, our managing editor.
Speaker 1: So we talk all things Whistling Straits, the venue for
Speaker 1: this year's Ryder Cup, and we get in the nitty
Speaker 1: gritty there and it's a good conversation. Later this week
Speaker 1: we will have another episode that is a five Things
Speaker 1: episode where I will host a colleague in the media space.
Speaker 1: I think I've got an irishman coming on. He can
Speaker 1: be a little surly and hasn't given me really a
Speaker 1: straight answer. So I think I have an irishman coming on.
Speaker 1: He's been on the pod before. We'll see if he uh,
Speaker 1: if he follows through with that. But without further ado,
Speaker 1: here is Garrett and I's conversation on Whistling straight I.
Speaker 2: Missed a green, for example, I'm already upset when I
Speaker 2: find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 3: And when I find my ball in a bright egg Friday,
Speaker 3: egg Frida, egg Frida, egg fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm
Speaker 3: about ready to run off of the course. All right,
Speaker 3: So Andy, you were just at Whistling Straights.
Speaker 1: Uh, yes, yeah, it was there. Quick trip, just just
Speaker 1: there to shoot the course. I didn't didn't play, but
Speaker 1: walked walk both nines and uh, good to see it again.
Speaker 1: I've been there a few times in my lifetime, so
Speaker 1: you know, it's always been a big u big drag
Speaker 1: grown up, I mean, Coler the Cohler Resort was like
Speaker 1: the destination place, the one that you always dreamed of
Speaker 1: going to when you were a kid, because it was
Speaker 1: like the nice the real nice course. Being a Midwestern
Speaker 1: like that was the resort of the Midwest growing.
Speaker 3: Up, Chicago's riviera maybe you could call it.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, you got you got Lake, you got Lake
Speaker 1: Chadiva areas, a big Chicago land and then you got
Speaker 1: the new Buffaloes like the Hamptons of Chicago land. But
Speaker 1: Cohler was this just like five star lux resort that
Speaker 1: popped up, and you know, from a golfing sense, you know,
Speaker 1: they were hosting at black Wolf, they hosted that US
Speaker 1: Women's Open in ninety seven, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the PGA started to go to Whistling Straits after they
Speaker 1: built that, and it was you know, that was right
Speaker 1: when I was getting into golf those years, and you know,
Speaker 1: it became an aspirational place. So it's a h you know,
Speaker 1: for any kid that grew up in the Midwest around
Speaker 1: my age, it's a it's a place that you always
Speaker 1: dreamed of playing. And I've been lucky to get out
Speaker 1: there a few times in my lifetime, and you know,
Speaker 1: I still have pictures from the first time I went
Speaker 1: out there with my family, and you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like you know, when you look at the whole place architecturally,
Speaker 1: there's some things that you him and haw about. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, this is a place historically that
Speaker 1: will always be remembered for putting Wisconsin on the map
Speaker 1: as a golf tourism place and really starting this renaissance
Speaker 1: of golf tourism in the Midwest, in the Upper Midwest
Speaker 1: specifically with with obviously it and now there's Sand Valley
Speaker 1: and Aaron Hills, all of the states. So, you know,
Speaker 1: Whistling Straits, but more so black Wolf Run was the
Speaker 1: start of that with with Herb Cohler's kind of vision
Speaker 1: for this place.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, the Straights course at Whistling Straits was the
Speaker 3: second course at Coohler I believe, right, I think well,
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Well, black Wolf Run has two courses okay, and they
Speaker 1: had the there. Originally it was one course, but then
Speaker 1: they split the course into two when they expanded it. Okay,
Speaker 1: then they built straights on this which isn't It's not connected,
Speaker 1: Like you know, black Wolf Fronds really tied in close
Speaker 1: to cole Is in Coaler and is tied into the
Speaker 1: resort really closely. But then Whistling Straits is a good
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minutes from the resort in Haven I
Speaker 1: think is actually technically the town.
Speaker 3: So the Straights course was built in nineteen ninety eight
Speaker 3: or opened in nineteen ninety eight, I guess I should say.
Speaker 3: It hosted the PGA Championship in two thousand and four,
Speaker 3: twenty ten, in twenty fifteen. But obviously the reason we're
Speaker 3: talking about it today is that it is going to
Speaker 3: host the Ryder Cup coming up here in a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks. And you were up there to photograph it.
Speaker 3: You definitely saw some infrastructure, some healthy buildouts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't been to a Ryder Cup since
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, and having been to numerous major championships
Speaker 1: in the last few years, there's just really nothing like
Speaker 1: a Ryder Cup build out. The infrastructure I remember when
Speaker 1: I said Kiwa this winter talking with one of the
Speaker 1: tournament directors down there, I was like, why doesnt Kia
Speaker 1: ever host a Ryder Cup And he was like, they can't.
Speaker 2: They don't have the space.
Speaker 1: You know, the infrastructure needs for a Ryder Cup are
Speaker 1: insane and the buildout is extraordinary. You just look at it,
Speaker 1: I mean the amount of time, and it just reminds
Speaker 1: you how much money is on the line with the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup and why it was not played last year.
Speaker 3: So they are ready for the crowds. You mentioned Whistling
Speaker 3: Straits's importance in the history of Wisconsin golf. Now people
Speaker 3: know Wisconsin as a premium golf destination. It is one
Speaker 3: of the places to go in America for outstanding golf,
Speaker 3: and Whistling Straits really stands as one of the found
Speaker 3: moments of that Black Wolf run also very important, but
Speaker 3: I feel like Whistling Straits's debut was even more high
Speaker 3: profile than Blackwolf runs, partly because of this incredible location
Speaker 3: that the Straits course has.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's right on Lake Michigan. The one
Speaker 1: thing I will say is like, there's some really interesting
Speaker 1: ground along Lake Michigan in different parts of Illinois and Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: At this part of the Wisconsin it is dead flat.
Speaker 1: It's just dead flat up to Bluff, you know. So
Speaker 1: everything there is created, everything's artificial. And when you think
Speaker 1: about when you see the adjacent land to the golf course,
Speaker 1: it's amazing what's there. You just look at it and
Speaker 1: you say, Jesus Christ, like, how did this happen? And
Speaker 1: the golf course, though is completely artificially made, is right
Speaker 1: on Lake Michigan. I think one of the things that
Speaker 1: I was thinking about just recently, you know, when I
Speaker 1: was up there was just about how much coastline, like
Speaker 1: it's not ocean coast, but Lake Michigan. A lot of
Speaker 1: people come to Chicago and it is like what ocean
Speaker 1: is that? You know, that's a common thing for out
Speaker 1: of town or to say, which is kind of funny,
Speaker 1: but Lake Michigan is kind of like, you know, an
Speaker 1: ocean in a sense of how it looks. You can't
Speaker 1: see the other side of the lake, and the amount
Speaker 1: of coastline that it occupies is tremendous and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how it would compare to a lot of places,
Speaker 1: but there's more coastline than pebble and definitely more coastline
Speaker 1: than most of the courses abandoned Sheep Branch might be
Speaker 1: able to contend with it in terms of pure coastline,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of holes right on Lake Michigan,
Speaker 1: which obviously gives stunning views throughout. It is a it's
Speaker 1: a place that like, no matter how many times you've
Speaker 1: been there, you kind of walk like with like this
Speaker 1: like turn like you're always kind of angled a little
Speaker 1: bit because you're looking at the lake to your left
Speaker 1: or right, depending on which way you're walking.
Speaker 3: I believe there are eight holes along the coast, but
Speaker 3: in addition to those, the holes that are inland have
Speaker 3: views of the ocean because of the way that the
Speaker 3: course was kind of built on stair steps, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: so the fairways inland are higher, so you tend to
Speaker 3: be able to see I said ocean before. I think
Speaker 3: you can see the lake. Yeah, I lived next to
Speaker 3: Lake Michigan at one point. It really does look like
Speaker 3: an ocean. But in any case, you can. You can.
Speaker 3: You can see the lake at a lot of different
Speaker 3: points on the course, and part of that's because of
Speaker 3: how that site was reshaped. I believe when Die arrived
Speaker 3: that it was more of a sheer cliff right next
Speaker 3: to the lake, and he moved a lot of that
Speaker 3: dirt from the top of the cliffs inland so that
Speaker 3: the holes that are on the lake are lower.
Speaker 1: You see that, especially on the front nine, like the
Speaker 1: par threes jump to mind, those kind of sit down,
Speaker 1: and especially like the seventh hole sits into like a
Speaker 1: little cavity that's cut out. It's the lowest hole in
Speaker 1: terms of like proximity to the shoreline. A lot of
Speaker 1: the back nine plays a little bit higher, but that
Speaker 1: definitely is the case for some of the par three's
Speaker 1: or where he set those in. And now that you
Speaker 1: mention it, you think about it, and it kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense, like you scrape out stuff and that's a
Speaker 1: perfect spot to just nook in a little par three,
Speaker 1: you know. And and the par three's all play along
Speaker 1: the coast, and that obviously is a big thing that
Speaker 1: the Kaiser's stress with with you know, their ocean front
Speaker 1: courses is if you go to Sheep Branch, there's it's
Speaker 1: no coincidence that every part three plays either directly at
Speaker 1: the ocean or along the ocean like that. That's uh,
Speaker 1: that's not by coincidence. And Whistling Straits has you know,
Speaker 1: the all four part threes right on Lake Michigan. So
Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty clever routing how he did
Speaker 1: it because he has all this coastline right and all
Speaker 1: the interest. You know, there's not a lot of interest
Speaker 1: to be gained in inland because the land was dead
Speaker 1: flat and the coast was really the star of the show.
Speaker 1: That's probably why Herb Kohler bought the property, was just
Speaker 1: because of the coastline on on Lake Michigan. So it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting how he built the course. Obviously, the clubhouse
Speaker 1: sits back from the lake significantly, and that's where eighteen
Speaker 1: ends and one t's off like just like any traditional course,
Speaker 1: but one gets you out there. And the way he
Speaker 1: oriented both the back and the front nine, so ten
Speaker 1: and eighteen and one and nine are holes that go
Speaker 1: out to the coast and back from the coast, you know,
Speaker 1: and everything else there is oriented in a figure eight.
Speaker 1: So there's two figure eights on each side. You know,
Speaker 1: on the south side you got the front nine, on
Speaker 1: the north side you got the back nine, and each
Speaker 1: is a figure eight. So what it does is you
Speaker 1: play in the case of the front nine, you play
Speaker 1: above the holes that are along the coast, but then
Speaker 1: you cross over at a par three, which is the
Speaker 1: third hole, and then you get on the coast for four.
Speaker 1: Five lines back, and then six plays above the coast,
Speaker 1: and then seven, another par three gets you back on
Speaker 1: the coast. So it's a really cool kind of figure
Speaker 1: eight when you think about it. And then eight is
Speaker 1: obviously right along the coast, beautiful par four, and then
Speaker 1: nine plays back to the clubhouse, but then ten same thing.
Speaker 1: Ten you play out, eleven plays above the coast, and
Speaker 1: then twelve brings you onto the coast for thirteen and
Speaker 1: then fourteen fifteen play above and then sixteen a par
Speaker 1: five gets you back on but fifteen kind of next
Speaker 1: in to right by twelve, and that's that crossing point
Speaker 1: of the of the figure eight.
Speaker 3: There's an interesting comparison to the Kiowa routing.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I was thinking about that while I was
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 3: Because Kioa is two loops, and so there are sequences
Speaker 3: of holes that all run along on the back, nine
Speaker 3: all run along the beach, and they're kind of all
Speaker 3: on one side at Whistling Straits. The lake front holes
Speaker 3: are distributed out across the nines in different ways, and
Speaker 3: so you visit the lakefront at different points during the
Speaker 3: nine instead of visiting it all at once.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, you know, obviously Whistling Straits was built
Speaker 1: after Kiowa, and it's almost like an evolution because it is,
Speaker 1: in a way a little bit more sophisticated because it
Speaker 1: becomes it becomes more of a treat, and then you leave,
Speaker 1: you come back like you. It creates these gathering points,
Speaker 1: which for anybody that are going, you know, ryder Cups
Speaker 1: are a zoo. It's really hard to get around. You
Speaker 1: kind of have to pick your spot. There are two
Speaker 1: gathering points right at the cross sections of these figure eights,
Speaker 1: where it's the sixth green, the second green, the third green,
Speaker 1: and the seventh green are all in the same spot.
Speaker 1: There's a grand stand. I was thinking the best spot
Speaker 1: might be up in the top of that grand stand
Speaker 1: because you'd be able to see everything from there. But
Speaker 1: that figure eight creates a concentration of energy and a
Speaker 1: place where everything's going to be happening when they're playing
Speaker 1: the front nine. So if I was spectating, I might
Speaker 1: think about going out there if I'm going to catch
Speaker 1: the front nine and then booking my way over to
Speaker 1: the back nine and getting to that same figure eight
Speaker 1: point where everything crosses because there you have twelve, eleven, fifteen,
Speaker 1: and sixteen right there where you can watch a lot
Speaker 1: of action and getting a good high perch right there
Speaker 1: where you're gonna be able to see a lot of shots.
Speaker 1: So in that sense, it's advantageous if you know what
Speaker 1: you're looking and where you're trying to get for the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup. But like those figure eights make those really
Speaker 1: concentrated pockets of the golf course because going out to
Speaker 1: either end is a real haul. But those figure eates
Speaker 1: are really cool because they, you know, they kind of
Speaker 1: give you you get to look ahead when you're playing
Speaker 1: and then also look back when you're coming back at
Speaker 1: you know, you get to think about, hey, what happened
Speaker 1: on that short par three twelve, Like when you're on fifteen,
Speaker 1: like I can't believe I hit it in the water
Speaker 1: there or something. You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned the par three's earlier. All of them
Speaker 3: are along the lake. So does that mean that they're
Speaker 3: sort of repetitive or are there ways that Die managed
Speaker 3: to distinguish them from each other?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So two play in one direction to play in
Speaker 1: the other direction to play south, to play north. The
Speaker 1: first Part three you encounter is the third hole. It's
Speaker 1: got a really big green and it angles you're playing south,
Speaker 1: and it's right on the ocean or on the cheese,
Speaker 1: on the lake.
Speaker 3: And lifelong Chicago in right here exactly.
Speaker 1: It's a middle length Part four, so they vary in distance.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got two middle length Part four are
Speaker 1: Part three's and three and seven three being a little
Speaker 1: bit shorter than seven, and then you've got a long
Speaker 1: part three and seventeen and twelve is a short part three,
Speaker 1: very short part three. So you have good variety in
Speaker 1: terms of the distances. They're all relatively flat. None of
Speaker 1: them plays significantly uphill or downhill, but they all have
Speaker 1: unique kind of green complexes and green surrounds that very them.
Speaker 1: So the third has a really beautiful, like wavy green
Speaker 1: that has contours that kind of cut in on diagonals
Speaker 1: throughout the green which create a lot of very cool
Speaker 1: pin positions, and it opens from right to left going back.
Speaker 1: You know, the seventh a little bit longer of a
Speaker 1: par three that is bench right. I mean, it's so
Speaker 1: intimidating right along the lake, and that one opens from
Speaker 1: left to right, so opens to the kind of the
Speaker 1: opposite shot shape, so the first you know third hole.
Speaker 1: They look they're very similar in the sense that they're
Speaker 1: both mid length par threes. One opens from the right
Speaker 1: to right to left, the other opens from left to
Speaker 1: right and then you go to the back.
Speaker 2: Nine.
Speaker 1: Twelve is a wild green. It is a very cool,
Speaker 1: unique short par three. I think in terms of the
Speaker 1: golf course, probably my favorite hole on the golf course,
Speaker 1: right on the lake, and it's mainly because of the green.
Speaker 1: It's a green that I haven't ever seen a green
Speaker 1: like it. Maybe a hoopies a hole green might be
Speaker 1: the only thing that I've seen that has a similar
Speaker 1: even flare to it.
Speaker 2: It's law.
Speaker 1: It's kind of very narrow, and it kind of along
Speaker 1: these bunkers, so you have like a front left side
Speaker 1: that's short left and then it kind of runs on
Speaker 1: a diagonal and then goes serpentines all the way back
Speaker 1: to back. Little pin that's like sits out on the
Speaker 1: peninsula and they better put the pin there, is all
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. Like, I'm going to be extremely disappointed
Speaker 1: if there's not a pin back there. But in it
Speaker 1: it has the boldest contours of any green, which you
Speaker 1: would expect with a short part three. Like, one of
Speaker 1: the things you can do with short part three's is
Speaker 1: you can push the contours and make it a little
Speaker 1: bit more extreme because it's not as big of a
Speaker 1: journey to get there. So this green has a lot
Speaker 1: of very sharp contours, and if you're not in the
Speaker 1: right section of it, it's gonna be a really hard
Speaker 1: two put. And then furthermore, the way it angles, with
Speaker 1: it being long right short left, that's really tough for
Speaker 1: right handers because your missus are short right or long left,
Speaker 1: which are both in both cases.
Speaker 3: Truck, have you told me about seventeen?
Speaker 1: Oh, last one? I mean, so you get like a
Speaker 1: gettabull par five sixteen right before it, and then seventeen
Speaker 1: and eighteen are complete bears. I mean, I think it's
Speaker 1: about two twenty two thirty from the back, and this
Speaker 1: hole is pushed up on the edge of the of
Speaker 1: the lake, very steep drop off to the left. There's
Speaker 1: space left, but it's nowhere you want to be. It's
Speaker 1: almost like you know, if the pin's left, you miss left,
Speaker 1: it's almost guaranteed bogie. Very severe penalty for missing over
Speaker 1: there on the right, there's a big towering bunker that
Speaker 1: kind of obscures the right half of the green, and
Speaker 1: the only way to get anywhere near that pin is
Speaker 1: with a high fade from you know to twenty two thirty.
Speaker 1: It's a really tough shot to hit. I mean, most
Speaker 1: people are just gonna be aiming for the middle of
Speaker 1: the green, trying to hit the green. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's a longer, narrower, but it's got that little right
Speaker 1: kind of pocket where you can put a middle pin right.
Speaker 1: So you've got really interesting pins everywhere that you look
Speaker 1: on that green. If it's short left, they have te's
Speaker 1: on the right and left sides, so you could it
Speaker 1: could be a little bit more right, which when you
Speaker 1: use that right pin, a lot of people would automatically
Speaker 1: assume the left t is a little bit harder because
Speaker 1: you're right on the lake there. But that right ta
Speaker 1: what it does is it brings your where you're gonna
Speaker 1: miss long left becomes the lake, you know, as opposed
Speaker 1: to like you can shade from that tea that's pressed
Speaker 1: on the on the lake. It's easier shot to just
Speaker 1: bail right. It becomes harder to bail right when they
Speaker 1: have the t right, which I think they're gonna use
Speaker 1: that right tea most of the time, and it brings
Speaker 1: that the lake much more into your your shot pattern.
Speaker 1: So front left obviously you have to deal with the
Speaker 1: with the left side and the lake. Back left you
Speaker 1: have to deal with the left side, and then middle
Speaker 1: right you have to deal with that really really gnarly
Speaker 1: volcano bunker.
Speaker 2: Short right.
Speaker 3: So we've talked about the part threes. What are some
Speaker 3: other holes that you think people should watch out for
Speaker 3: at the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know this is a rarity. Pete Die
Speaker 1: was like, not a big drivable par four guy. No,
Speaker 1: he was a short part four necessarily like that. It
Speaker 1: was like one of the things you noticed at a
Speaker 1: lot of his course is very few drivable par four.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And in fact, quick story here when they built
Speaker 3: a drivable par four at TPC Sawgrass on the twelfth hole,
Speaker 3: when the PGA Tour decided to make that a drivable
Speaker 3: par four. This was before Pete Die had passed away,
Speaker 3: but he wasn't in public much at that point. Alice Dye,
Speaker 3: his wife, was still speaking occasionally in public, and what
Speaker 3: she said bluntly was my husband did not like short
Speaker 3: par fours that much. He didn't really like drivable par fours.
Speaker 3: This is not really representative of something that he would
Speaker 3: want to do. She said that about the new twelfth
Speaker 3: hole at TPC Sawgrass. But we do see a couple
Speaker 3: of instances of short par fours at Whistling Straits, which
Speaker 3: is interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like one of them, like ten,
Speaker 1: is shorter than it would be because of some hospitality.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that tea is going to be
Speaker 1: up a little because of hospitality.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's an enticing drivable par four for somebody like Bryson,
Speaker 1: the really long hitters. But then like the predominant drivable
Speaker 1: part four is the sixth. It's a really cool hole
Speaker 1: because of the green. The green has like two very
Speaker 1: distinct sections, like and I think everybody that's watched tournament
Speaker 1: golf out there has probably seen it. But it's almost
Speaker 1: like it's almost like a pair of glasses right with
Speaker 1: your right and left eye, and then there's a bunker
Speaker 1: that cuts in and is like your nose piece of
Speaker 1: your glasses, and the left side's very inviting, has kind
Speaker 1: of a slope that kicks things in there that is
Speaker 1: a very inviting pin to go for the green because
Speaker 1: you can miss to the left and you've got a
Speaker 1: really easy chip. Things get a little bit more difficult
Speaker 1: when the pin's over on the right side because you
Speaker 1: know there's no option. There's no way you could carry
Speaker 1: it there, fly it there and have it stop. You know,
Speaker 1: the question is will these guys prefer hitting that bunker
Speaker 1: shot from just right around the green or are they
Speaker 1: gonna lay up back into the layup area. I hit
Speaker 1: a wedge because it's a really small target, like it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily an easy wed shot to that right pin
Speaker 1: and left the left. I think when the pin's over
Speaker 1: the left, you're gonna see everybody go for that because
Speaker 1: it's not a long hole.
Speaker 2: I think almost.
Speaker 1: Everybody in this Ryder Cup will be able to hit
Speaker 1: to get close to it. So that's a really compelling hole,
Speaker 1: and obviously, in the cadence of things, it comes after
Speaker 1: a part five, so it's part of the section of
Speaker 1: the golf course that you really expect to score. The
Speaker 1: tenth hole I previously mentioned, but that'll be played up
Speaker 1: a couple teas. Again, if you lay up, it's not
Speaker 1: easy because you never have a visible shot unless you
Speaker 1: get up by the green because the green sits so
Speaker 1: high up that you're never really gonna get close enough
Speaker 1: that you can see the green, So then it brings
Speaker 1: in this kind of awkward wedge where everybody struggles a
Speaker 1: little bit when they can't see what they're hitting it at.
Speaker 1: You can see the pin, but you have no depth
Speaker 1: perception and there's nothing good left there. So that's the
Speaker 1: thing with the hitting driver. If you hit it left,
Speaker 1: you could be in a really bad spot. And then
Speaker 1: the final one is the fourteenth hole. Everybody probably forgets
Speaker 1: about the fourteenth hole. I think it's a really nice
Speaker 1: little hole and really like maybe one of the most
Speaker 1: slept on holes out. There's a blind t shot and
Speaker 1: you can play out right or you can take on
Speaker 1: a big swath of bunkers on the left, and if
Speaker 1: you take on that, you could definitely hit the green,
Speaker 1: like you know, as the crow flies. It's much shorter
Speaker 1: than the yardage on the card, and I would expect
Speaker 1: a lot of guys to be trying to go for
Speaker 1: that green off the tee and you can't see it
Speaker 1: from the tee, so it's completely blind. But you can
Speaker 1: lay up out to the right and it winds around
Speaker 1: the bunker, but it leaves you with like a webshot
Speaker 1: from probably not the flattest lye. The fairway banks pretty
Speaker 1: hard right to left to green that you know, it's
Speaker 1: not it's shallow and wide. It's not the easiest green
Speaker 1: to hit a wedge into.
Speaker 3: So you've described a couple of greens so far. It
Speaker 3: seems like one of the most memorable characteristics of this
Speaker 3: course is that the greens are really varied, and some
Speaker 3: of them have pretty wild shapes. So what are some
Speaker 3: patterns that you noticed among the whistling straight screens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think one of the things that di
Speaker 1: did really well for his era was build really compelling
Speaker 1: greens that had variety in them, you know that. I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the things you see in that
Speaker 1: era of architecture was the greens were a little bit
Speaker 1: dumbed down and bland compared to Golden Age, and I
Speaker 1: think Die had kind of the most spunk out of
Speaker 1: everybody then. And with what you see as nonlinear contours.
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is this era was
Speaker 1: so line oriented, right, so if you built a tier,
Speaker 1: it was a straight tier. All of dies kind of
Speaker 1: go on diagonals and they have ups and downs, kind
Speaker 1: of like you'd see of a Maxwell roll. It's not
Speaker 1: just like an up and flat. They all have like
Speaker 1: kind of backsides and front sides to the slopes. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes them really fun is they
Speaker 1: create these really small sections. Whether it's a big green
Speaker 1: or a smaller green, all of them have very distinct
Speaker 1: sections and you have to hit a really good shot
Speaker 1: to get in those sections. And if you're not in
Speaker 1: those sections, it becomes like how do I two putt?
Speaker 1: Not how do I make this putt? So it really
Speaker 1: rewards great iron play.
Speaker 3: So one of the ideas going into this Ryder Cup
Speaker 3: that seems to be popular right now is that this
Speaker 3: course is going to strongly prioritize distance. What do you
Speaker 3: think about that?
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I mean distance and irons.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean when you hit it further, you
Speaker 1: get shorter irons, which really helps your proximity, you know,
Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about the best players in the world. So,
Speaker 1: as Joe Lamannia said this podcast a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: one of the things is why distance is so important
Speaker 1: is some of the faraways get wider the further you go.
Speaker 1: This is a resort golf course. So there's some really
Speaker 1: generous spots on it, not necessarily fairway, if we could
Speaker 1: talk about that later. But corridor wise, it's pretty wide
Speaker 1: in spots, and there's certain areas where they pinch, and
Speaker 1: I think when it was designed, the areas that that
Speaker 1: they pinch are where the best players in the world
Speaker 1: hit it, and now that's where they could hit it past,
Speaker 1: and it does show its age a little in that
Speaker 1: in that sense, right is where all the trouble is.
Speaker 1: The longest hitters hit it past it now, which is
Speaker 1: and that's also why some of these holes are drivable
Speaker 1: part fours or close to drivable part fours that weren't
Speaker 1: when they were designed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the things that stood out to me
Speaker 3: when I was reading the chapter in Pete Dye's book
Speaker 3: Bury Me in a Pop Punker that had a few
Speaker 3: pages about the building of Whistling Straits is that he
Speaker 3: and the people who are building the course the rest
Speaker 3: of the people were very much thinking about the distance
Speaker 3: explosion that was happening at that time. This course was
Speaker 3: built in the late nineties. It opened in nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 3: and so this was right when the pros were getting
Speaker 3: longer and longer, and some of those advances that have
Speaker 3: really defined this next era of golf were first coming in,
Speaker 3: you know, the solid core balls that everybody was playing,
Speaker 3: the metal woods. You know, the game was changing and
Speaker 3: die knew that, and on many holes on this course
Speaker 3: you can see him trying to respond to that in
Speaker 3: various ways, you know, going back to the prevalence of
Speaker 3: short par fours on this course. I don't have anything
Speaker 3: in particular to support this theory, but I suspect that
Speaker 3: those holes were ones where die was thinking, well, the
Speaker 3: longer players are not necessarily going to have a big
Speaker 3: advantage on this.
Speaker 1: Hole, Yeah, I think, But I think also like, but
Speaker 1: the web shot into that six, for example, when the
Speaker 1: pens are the right, that's not an easy shot. You know, sure,
Speaker 1: if you're dialed in, you can hit it. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that I think about a lot is
Speaker 1: when the pin's over there on that side and it's
Speaker 1: public play, how how do people even play that? Like?
Speaker 1: How do you know there's gotta be some serious ping
Speaker 1: pong that happens?
Speaker 2: The rounds are slow out there, right, oh, glacial.
Speaker 3: That's one of the things about this course is it's
Speaker 3: it is a resort course, and there is some accounting
Speaker 3: for the average player, but it is still an incredibly
Speaker 3: hard course for the average golfer to play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would agree. I would agree with that.
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see how they play some of
Speaker 1: these holes, particularly an alternate shot when the when the
Speaker 1: stakes are a little bit higher and there's less you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have the insurance of your partner. I think,
Speaker 1: like in best Ball, you'll see guys bombs away because
Speaker 1: one of the two of them isn't going to probably
Speaker 1: make worse than par if they both hit it up there,
Speaker 1: Like one might get a bad break and a bad
Speaker 1: line in the bunker, but both of them won't.
Speaker 3: So one of the things that really stands out about
Speaker 3: this course is the shaping style. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of really bold shaping out there. There are many, many,
Speaker 3: many bunkers. I believe Ron Whitten of Golf Digest once
Speaker 3: counted them and which which must have taken a while,
Speaker 3: and his conclusion was that the eighth hole alone has
Speaker 3: one hundred and two bunkers, and that there are about
Speaker 3: nine hundred and sixty seven bunkers on the course in total.
Speaker 3: They're just all over the place, and a lot of
Speaker 3: them have these kind of you know, bold lips to
Speaker 3: them that there's some of those volcano bunkers that that
Speaker 3: you saw a lot of ended up seeing a lot
Speaker 3: of it dies French Lick course, and so what does
Speaker 3: have them? Yeah, the fewer of them at Whistling Straits.
Speaker 3: They have they have made it and multiplied. They are
Speaker 3: all over the place. So what are some of your
Speaker 3: thoughts about the style of shaping that was used at
Speaker 3: this course.
Speaker 1: I mean you could clearly tell that the attempt here
Speaker 1: was to create Ireland golf in Wiscon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Cohler was specific about that. He said to
Speaker 3: Pete Dye, I want this to look like Baalibunian. I
Speaker 3: don't know if this looks anything like Baalibunian, but that
Speaker 3: was certainly the intention to create a Irish Dune's look.
Speaker 1: At this course, you know there's some of that. I
Speaker 1: think it's a little sharp for that. It doesn't look
Speaker 1: natural because of how sharp some of the lines are.
Speaker 1: That being said, I do like sympathize slightly because you look,
Speaker 1: especially with the drone you're flying around, you can see
Speaker 1: the land right next door, or if you're driving out
Speaker 1: of the property, turn right or left. How flat it is?
Speaker 1: I mean there's nothing, there was nothing. Yeah, so you know,
Speaker 1: like he went from nothing to what it is and
Speaker 1: this is a remarkable feat of engineering just to do that.
Speaker 1: But I would say, yeah, they're abrupt, it's overdone, and
Speaker 1: a lot of places over the top and a lot
Speaker 1: of places. But it does like you do play it
Speaker 1: and you you know, as somebody who grew up in
Speaker 1: the Midwest going to Lake Michigan, it's unlike anything else
Speaker 1: you've seen, which you know, it does have intrinsic value.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is extreme maximalism. This is as maximal
Speaker 1: as you can get isleistly. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: how many more places had more maximal projects of this place.
Speaker 1: You know, in something there is something about the feel
Speaker 1: of departing, like there's obviously sense of place, but there
Speaker 1: is also a form of art of departing the world
Speaker 1: as you know it and going to different place. And
Speaker 1: that's more of what this is than Hey, this is
Speaker 1: not the Sheboyk in Wisconsin Coast. It's not that it's
Speaker 1: it's just it's avake believe place.
Speaker 3: So what are some other courses that are kind of
Speaker 3: like this? That take that approach to place. I guess
Speaker 3: Shadow Creek is the ultimate example.
Speaker 1: Arcadia Bluff has some of this going on, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, just on the other side of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 3: And do you do you think that's the right approach
Speaker 3: on these kinds of properties.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how compelling of a golf
Speaker 1: course you could have built without moving much earth there.
Speaker 1: It's dead flat, you know, like it would have been
Speaker 1: cool because you would have been staring at the lake.
Speaker 1: You know, that's always a good thing. But I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that it does so effectively for
Speaker 1: a resort course, people are only going to play Whistling straits.
Speaker 1: You know, most people will only play Whistling Streets once
Speaker 1: in their life if they get there. You know, that's
Speaker 1: the reality. And one of the things that it does
Speaker 1: is it will give you a lasting memory, no matter
Speaker 1: who you are, no matter how many golf courses you've seen,
Speaker 1: the place will make you feel something some you know.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of qualms about some of the
Speaker 1: things out there, with the stuff that people don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about, which is drained touch. But I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I played it when I was in
Speaker 1: I think I was in college. You know, you're just
Speaker 1: taking a back that the place exists. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the right place is for it. It's obviously destroyed
Speaker 1: a landscape that was there. I don't think the landscape
Speaker 1: that was there was really that special. It's like almost
Speaker 1: like amusement mark park golf in the sense of that.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think the design's really good in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, Like the routing's really clever. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of like really cool holes, and you know,
Speaker 1: they created this landscape, so there's you know, you go
Speaker 1: back and forth. Yeah, My biggest issue with it centers
Speaker 1: around the way the golf course is presented, given what
Speaker 1: the intention and the vision for the golf course was.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's it's over watered.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The fairway withs are a joke.
Speaker 1: You know, they haven't pushed them back out since they
Speaker 1: hosted the first PGA, So you get a lot of
Speaker 1: what you had a kiwa where you have these wider
Speaker 1: corridors but narrow fairways, you know, And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's one of the things. It's a resort, so that's
Speaker 1: why the way it's maintained, which isn't necessarily right or wrong,
Speaker 1: Like banded dunes are a resort and it's maintained one way.
Speaker 1: In Whistling Straight Straits is a very different resort and
Speaker 1: it's maintained this way.
Speaker 3: You can imagine that Pete Die would prefer this course
Speaker 3: to play faster than it does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it plays very slow, and that's the complete opposite
Speaker 1: of the way it should play if it wants to
Speaker 1: be an Irish links course.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In terms of course, is that emulate a sand
Speaker 3: dune environment. It feels a little bit dated because we
Speaker 3: have examples like Kingsbarnes where the effort to emulate links
Speaker 3: Land was quite a bit more successful if you're trying
Speaker 3: to come up with an imitation Stewart, something that really
Speaker 3: feels like it Castle Stewart. At the same time, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure if it's better to try to fool people
Speaker 3: into thinking that they're on a piece of links Land
Speaker 3: or if it's better to just create something weird and
Speaker 3: wonderful and theme park like, which Whistling Straits is. You know,
Speaker 3: if it was unsuccessful in imitating Ballibanion, Whistling Straits isn't
Speaker 3: necessarily a failure because of that it has done something
Speaker 3: else and it's pretty unique.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is completely unique. There's nothing else
Speaker 1: like it. In a way, it's like it's a piece
Speaker 1: of art because it was completely created.
Speaker 2: Everything there was created.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's not necessarily by cup of tea
Speaker 1: of architecture. But like, I think another thing that's kind
Speaker 1: of underrated about it just in general is how easy
Speaker 1: the walk is given how much space they can like
Speaker 1: have for infrastructure, Like the Green to Tea walks are
Speaker 1: really really intimate, but yet like they can build out
Speaker 1: this infrastructure unlike anything else. And I know I know
Speaker 1: from anecdotally, like the tour really advocates for courses to
Speaker 1: have long walks from green to Tea so they can
Speaker 1: put grand stands in. Yeah, like this place like doesn't
Speaker 1: have long walks green to Tea and it still has
Speaker 1: all this space for grand stands. And that's something that Die.
Speaker 1: You know, he understood building tournament golf, like big scale
Speaker 1: tournament golf, maybe better than any architect that we've ever seen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his way of figuring out where people would stand,
Speaker 3: where they would watch the action from, how they could
Speaker 3: have sightlines on different shots is pretty much unparalleled.
Speaker 1: But also his designs because his designs have really endured
Speaker 1: pretty well and stood up fairly well to you know, advances.
Speaker 3: How do you think this is going to compare it
Speaker 3: to a place like Kiowa or even a course like
Speaker 3: TPC Sawgrass in terms of the way that it's going
Speaker 3: to challenge the best players in the world.
Speaker 1: It's totally different, obviously, because I think it gives you
Speaker 1: way more space off the tea. Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: golf course that just visually cripples average players, Like they
Speaker 1: just can't get over the fact of all those bunkers
Speaker 1: that's all they see. They don't see the like sixty
Speaker 1: yard wide corridor that they have. I've you know, having
Speaker 1: played it with my father. It just threw them into fits,
Speaker 1: like you know, like the that's the thing is like,
Speaker 1: if you're a good player, it's significantly easier than an
Speaker 1: average player because just the visual intimidation. So it's wider,
Speaker 1: there's way more space, which for these guys is they
Speaker 1: aren't scared of the bunkers, so it's it's a little
Speaker 1: gentler off the tee.
Speaker 2: It's longer.
Speaker 1: I guess it's not longer than Kiwa anymore because of
Speaker 1: those new te's, but.
Speaker 2: It's it's bigger.
Speaker 1: It's a bigger ballpark in a way, and I think
Speaker 1: the greens are a little bit more interesting at Whistling
Speaker 1: Straits than And one of the things I will say,
Speaker 1: and this is an important point, is that the penalty
Speaker 1: for missing fairways at Whistling Straits is huge, and that
Speaker 1: is something to watch at the Ryder Cup, especially in
Speaker 1: match play, because if you miss a fairway, say like
Speaker 1: the eighteenth hole is a great example of this. Matches
Speaker 1: that get to eighteen, it is pivotal to hit a
Speaker 1: good T shot there because if you don't hit a
Speaker 1: good T shot there, you're likely laying up back at
Speaker 1: like one hundred and sixty yards, you know, like you're
Speaker 1: not laying up to fifty yards. It's not like one
Speaker 1: of those spots you hack it out and you get
Speaker 1: it up close to the green and it's a relatively
Speaker 1: easy up and down for four. Like you're making probably
Speaker 1: a bogie if you miss the fairway there. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the case with the par fives out here too,
Speaker 1: that there's a really high degree of missus out here,
Speaker 1: and I think all the par fives do it pretty
Speaker 1: well too. Obviously, eleven is converted to par four for
Speaker 1: this competition. But two, if you miss the fairway, you're
Speaker 1: probably not getting home. And then it's not an easy layup,
Speaker 1: Like it's not easy to get to a place you
Speaker 1: really want to get to if you miss the fairway.
Speaker 2: The same.
Speaker 1: I mean, five's like maybe the worst hole is definitely
Speaker 1: the worst hole on property and doesn't fit the golf
Speaker 1: course at all. Like five alone knocks the golf course
Speaker 1: down from being like really great because of how bad
Speaker 1: five is.
Speaker 3: Why is it so bad?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's just a horrendous golf hole.
Speaker 1: It's like a s fairaway and it doesn't work because
Speaker 1: if you're a long hitter, you just hit it over
Speaker 1: the s. That hole separates a scratch player from a
Speaker 1: twenty handicap better than maybe any hole in America. I mean,
Speaker 1: you'll see these guys. They're just gonna hit it over everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it just renders the hole, Like that's a distance
Speaker 1: rendering a hole completely obsolete.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that might be one of those holes
Speaker 3: where Pete Die thought in nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, Hey,
Speaker 3: this is going to kind of blunt the advantage of
Speaker 3: the players who can hit it three hundred yards. But
Speaker 3: now that we have players who can hit it three
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty yards.
Speaker 1: It has been de Yeah, exactly exactly, especially if they
Speaker 1: catch it down wind. You know, it might be different
Speaker 1: if they get like a north wind, which would make
Speaker 1: it pretty cold there. And then obviously eleven's converted, but
Speaker 1: there's huge penalty for miss there, and same with sixteen sixteen.
Speaker 1: And one of the things he did with the par
Speaker 1: fives is there's these like little extremely penal bunkers in
Speaker 1: layup areas, like little gnarly bunkers, Like on the second hold,
Speaker 1: there's this like almost principal nosy looking thing, and I'd
Speaker 1: love if a ball got in the top of it somehow.
Speaker 1: I hope that happens. That's something I'm really hoping for.
Speaker 1: And then, uh yeah, So I think that's the thing
Speaker 1: is like with the par fours. In the par fives
Speaker 1: more so, you know, obviously like Kiwa has large penalties
Speaker 1: for hitting it into the water, but this place has
Speaker 1: a huge penalty for missing without losing your golf ball.
Speaker 3: So what is the number one thing that you think
Speaker 3: is great about Whistling Straits.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're just staring at Lake Michigan all day. Great,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible like if you haven't, if you
Speaker 1: haven't been out there. I mean, it's just like it's
Speaker 1: hard to have a bad day when you're just like
Speaker 1: walking looking at a giant body of water on a
Speaker 1: beautiful day. I say that, but like it's true. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody always wants to say, oh, if pebble wasn't on
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean, it wouldn't be a top ten course.
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you. It's on the Pacific oce.
Speaker 3: Right there, and it's pretty great.
Speaker 1: Exactly, Like you know, there's like a there's like a
Speaker 1: threshold of like how bad can your day go if
Speaker 1: you're staring at the lake all day? Like it's such
Speaker 1: a beautiful place, you know, and obviously like the catch
Speaker 1: basins are so awful, like and and those are drainage things,
Speaker 1: and I don't you know, I always look at the
Speaker 1: lake and wonder there had to be environmental restrictions how
Speaker 1: they had to drain it. They probably can't drain it
Speaker 1: and drain a golf course into Lake Michigan.
Speaker 2: That probably would.
Speaker 3: So for the people who haven't yet gone down the
Speaker 3: rabbit hole with you about styles of drainage and catch basins,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? What is a catch basin.
Speaker 1: Catch basins are are drainage basins, and that basically throws
Speaker 1: it into drainage. You know, drainage that you don't think
Speaker 1: about is golf course plumbing and that plumbing then takes
Speaker 1: the water somewhere else. And like think about water on
Speaker 1: a golf course is human waste or whatever you want
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 3: You know, so you want you want to get you want.
Speaker 1: To get it off the golf course and in another place.
Speaker 1: So what you'll see, like if you see aeriols, if
Speaker 1: you watch, we're gonna put a video together, you'll see
Speaker 1: these catch basins lining the fairways. Now, if your are
Speaker 1: if you're constructing a golf course from scratch, what I
Speaker 1: don't understand they've thought about all this stuff, how they're
Speaker 1: going to build it. How do you not just do
Speaker 1: like drainage, surface drainage. The best architects drain stuff without
Speaker 1: you seeing.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, and that's the problem with catch basins is
Speaker 3: that they show you how the course is being drained.
Speaker 1: You know what catch basins do. They collect water and
Speaker 1: they collect golf balls. Yeah, and you'll see these catch
Speaker 1: basins in front of hazards. So what it does is
Speaker 1: it stops the ball from going into a bunker and
Speaker 1: throws it into this catch basin where a lot of
Speaker 1: balls get into and then you get all these divots
Speaker 1: in them. You know, most people don't understand about the
Speaker 1: real brilliance of say Bill Core or Tom Doak or
Speaker 1: Gil is how much time they spend thinking about drainage
Speaker 1: and getting the water off the hole in ways that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't see the water get off the hole, and
Speaker 1: using their resources they're building, they're shaping, they shape stuff
Speaker 1: to get water to surface drain yeah, as opposed to
Speaker 1: using catch basins.
Speaker 3: And then they have to disguise it. They have to
Speaker 3: tie it in with the rest of the stuff that's there.
Speaker 3: And that's where the real art comes in, because drainage
Speaker 3: has to be functional, like it has to make gravity
Speaker 3: work on the water, but that doesn't always match up
Speaker 3: with trying to make it look like it belongs there.
Speaker 3: And that's where catch basins often fall short, is that
Speaker 3: you can see them. There's just this hollow. You're like,
Speaker 3: that's obviously not naturally occurring, and it kind of takes
Speaker 3: you out of this illusion that you're experiencing the game
Speaker 3: in a natural kind of environment or something that just
Speaker 3: occurred and was not man made.
Speaker 1: And a lot of like you know, naturally interesting golf
Speaker 1: sites have drained one way for a number of years.
Speaker 1: And when you move earth, what you do is you
Speaker 1: disrupt it, and that's when you need the drainage.
Speaker 3: And sand helps too. Sand helps a lot. Whistling Straits
Speaker 3: is not built naturally on sand. They imported a lot
Speaker 3: of sand, but that's not really what this site is.
Speaker 1: And as well, like sometimes catch basins are one hundred
Speaker 1: percent necessary, this is something that sometimes is needed. And
Speaker 1: Pete Die built a lot of golf courses in places
Speaker 1: where you shouldn't have golf courses, and catch basins were
Speaker 1: one hundred percent sent necessary to build those courses. So
Speaker 1: but this is one where if you're moving that much dirt,
Speaker 1: I think you could have been a little They could
Speaker 1: have been much more artistic and resourceful when figuring out
Speaker 1: how to drain the golf course. Yeah, and keeping like
Speaker 1: the basins affect the play like water obviously on that
Speaker 1: you want to get it, you have to get it
Speaker 1: off the golf course. But you know, the basins also
Speaker 1: create an eyesore and create these areas like instead of
Speaker 1: a ball rolling into one place, it almost removes the
Speaker 1: randomness of where a ball rolls because it collects it
Speaker 1: just like it would collect water.
Speaker 3: Well, all that said, I'm pretty excited to see a
Speaker 3: Ryder Cup here.
Speaker 2: You know, we're ended on such a negative note.
Speaker 3: I know something that we have to bring it back
Speaker 3: around here. Most of this podcast has been devoted to
Speaker 3: all the ways in which whistling straits is fun. I
Speaker 3: think keep an eye on the greens at this course.
Speaker 3: I bet you'll see some interesting shots around there. And
Speaker 3: then of course Pete Dye's courses strategically have always has
Speaker 3: been quite interesting, and so I think we'll see all
Speaker 3: of those things come out at this Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's definitely, like you know, lines of charm out there,
Speaker 1: and the corridors are wide wide where the advantage of
Speaker 1: being on certain halves is pretty large, especially with the
Speaker 1: length of approaches that people will have in And it
Speaker 1: should just be. It should be a really aesthetically a
Speaker 1: great watch on TV, and it should be. I think
Speaker 1: it'll translate better as a matchplay course than it does
Speaker 1: as a championship stroke play course. Today's episode was edited
Speaker 1: by Garrett Morrison. Just as a quick note, as I
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