WEBVTT - Thoughts on the Design of Whistling Straits 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:05.359 Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.920 episode is brought to you by ourselves. Hey, I just 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.959 wanted to take a quick minute to talk about our 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.360 print shop. We have my photography somem of Garrett Morrison's 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.240 photography in our pro shop at proshop dot Thefridagg dot com. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.439 There you will find a photography tab. We have paper prints, 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.000 we have frame paper prints, and we also have metal 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.120 prints just to give you an idea. Those metal prints 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.960 are really unique, bright prints that will spruce up any 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.120 room as well as your traditional paper print and frame 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.000 paper print. So we have a ton of courses including 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.800 this week's Ryder Cup Venue, Whistling Straits on there. Others 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:54.440 included Ballyneil, Kingsley Club, Sand Valley, pas Tempo Prairie Dunes, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.440 among many other stream song. We have a ton of 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.639 courses up there, a ton of different prints, a ton 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.640 of op If you're looking for something else that you 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.400 may have seen us post, feel free to reach out 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.680 on the contact us page. We are doing twenty percent off. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.200 That's not an insignificant amount of money off and use 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:17.080 the code RC twenty twenty. That's our C twenty twenty 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:23.360 for twenty percent off. Today's episode is a conversation about 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.839 Whistling Straits between myself and Garrett Morrison, our managing editor. 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.160 So we talk all things Whistling Straits, the venue for 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.319 this year's Ryder Cup, and we get in the nitty 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:39.480 gritty there and it's a good conversation. Later this week 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.760 we will have another episode that is a five Things 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.240 episode where I will host a colleague in the media space. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.480 I think I've got an irishman coming on. He can 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.280 be a little surly and hasn't given me really a 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.240 straight answer. So I think I have an irishman coming on. 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.560 He's been on the pod before. We'll see if he uh, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.960 if he follows through with that. But without further ado, 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:08.160 here is Garrett and I's conversation on Whistling straight I. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.880 Missed a green, for example, I'm already upset when I 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:12.920 find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.519 And when I find my ball in a bright egg Friday, 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.079 egg Frida, egg Frida, egg fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:45.359 about ready to run off of the course. All right, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.639 So Andy, you were just at Whistling Straights. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.160 Uh, yes, yeah, it was there. Quick trip, just just 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.120 there to shoot the course. I didn't didn't play, but 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.680 walked walk both nines and uh, good to see it again. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.360 I've been there a few times in my lifetime, so 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.399 you know, it's always been a big u big drag 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.680 grown up, I mean, Coler the Cohler Resort was like 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:13.640 the destination place, the one that you always dreamed of 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.240 going to when you were a kid, because it was 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.359 like the nice the real nice course. Being a Midwestern 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.640 like that was the resort of the Midwest growing. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.200 Up, Chicago's riviera maybe you could call it. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:26.280 I don't know. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.720 I mean, you got you got Lake, you got Lake 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.960 Chadiva areas, a big Chicago land and then you got 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.040 the new Buffaloes like the Hamptons of Chicago land. But 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.400 Cohler was this just like five star lux resort that 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.880 popped up, and you know, from a golfing sense, you know, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.800 they were hosting at black Wolf, they hosted that US 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.400 Women's Open in ninety seven, and then all of a sudden, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.920 the PGA started to go to Whistling Straits after they 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.680 built that, and it was you know, that was right 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.040 when I was getting into golf those years, and you know, 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.160 it became an aspirational place. So it's a h you know, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.320 for any kid that grew up in the Midwest around 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.720 my age, it's a it's a place that you always 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.240 dreamed of playing. And I've been lucky to get out 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.920 there a few times in my lifetime, and you know, 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.040 I still have pictures from the first time I went 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.760 out there with my family, and you know, I think, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.480 like you know, when you look at the whole place architecturally, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.520 there's some things that you him and haw about. But 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.600 at the same time, this is a place historically that 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.960 will always be remembered for putting Wisconsin on the map 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.000 as a golf tourism place and really starting this renaissance 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.880 of golf tourism in the Midwest, in the Upper Midwest 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.680 specifically with with obviously it and now there's Sand Valley 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:45.960 and Aaron Hills, all of the states. So, you know, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.400 Whistling Straits, but more so black Wolf Run was the 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.760 start of that with with Herb Cohler's kind of vision 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:52.720 for this place. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.880 Right, Yeah, the Straights course at Whistling Straits was the 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.880 second course at Coohler I believe, right, I think well, 0:04:58.960 --> 0:04:59.360 I think. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.400 Well, black Wolf Run has two courses okay, and they 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.000 had the there. Originally it was one course, but then 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.000 they split the course into two when they expanded it. Okay, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.040 then they built straights on this which isn't It's not connected, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.880 Like you know, black Wolf Fronds really tied in close 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.039 to cole Is in Coaler and is tied into the 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.200 resort really closely. But then Whistling Straits is a good 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.440 ten to fifteen minutes from the resort in Haven I 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.160 think is actually technically the town. 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.160 So the Straights course was built in nineteen ninety eight 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.600 or opened in nineteen ninety eight, I guess I should say. 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.880 It hosted the PGA Championship in two thousand and four, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.560 twenty ten, in twenty fifteen. But obviously the reason we're 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.000 talking about it today is that it is going to 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.039 host the Ryder Cup coming up here in a couple 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.279 of weeks. And you were up there to photograph it. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.440 You definitely saw some infrastructure, some healthy buildouts. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:56.800 Yeah. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.440 You know, I haven't been to a Ryder Cup since 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.520 in twenty twelve, and having been to numerous major championships 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:09.159 in the last few years, there's just really nothing like 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.520 a Ryder Cup build out. The infrastructure I remember when 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.279 I said Kiwa this winter talking with one of the 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.880 tournament directors down there, I was like, why doesnt Kia 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.320 ever host a Ryder Cup And he was like, they can't. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:23.440 They don't have the space. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.040 You know, the infrastructure needs for a Ryder Cup are 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.560 insane and the buildout is extraordinary. You just look at it, 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.320 I mean the amount of time, and it just reminds 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.440 you how much money is on the line with the 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.760 Ryder Cup and why it was not played last year. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:44.200 So they are ready for the crowds. You mentioned Whistling 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.960 Straits's importance in the history of Wisconsin golf. Now people 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.360 know Wisconsin as a premium golf destination. It is one 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.839 of the places to go in America for outstanding golf, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.960 and Whistling Straits really stands as one of the found 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.039 moments of that Black Wolf run also very important, but 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.560 I feel like Whistling Straits's debut was even more high 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.680 profile than Blackwolf runs, partly because of this incredible location 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.240 that the Straits course has. 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.480 Yeah, I mean it's right on Lake Michigan. The one 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.840 thing I will say is like, there's some really interesting 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.520 ground along Lake Michigan in different parts of Illinois and Wisconsin. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.440 At this part of the Wisconsin it is dead flat. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.080 It's just dead flat up to Bluff, you know. So 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:35.800 everything there is created, everything's artificial. And when you think 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.120 about when you see the adjacent land to the golf course, 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.240 it's amazing what's there. You just look at it and 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:46.480 you say, Jesus Christ, like, how did this happen? And 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.000 the golf course, though is completely artificially made, is right 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.800 on Lake Michigan. I think one of the things that 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.400 I was thinking about just recently, you know, when I 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.320 was up there was just about how much coastline, like 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.720 it's not ocean coast, but Lake Michigan. A lot of 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.440 people come to Chicago and it is like what ocean 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.160 is that? You know, that's a common thing for out 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.320 of town or to say, which is kind of funny, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.920 but Lake Michigan is kind of like, you know, an 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.680 ocean in a sense of how it looks. You can't 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.440 see the other side of the lake, and the amount 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.320 of coastline that it occupies is tremendous and I'm not 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.880 sure how it would compare to a lot of places, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.880 but there's more coastline than pebble and definitely more coastline 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.880 than most of the courses abandoned Sheep Branch might be 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.400 able to contend with it in terms of pure coastline, 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.680 but there's a lot of holes right on Lake Michigan, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.719 which obviously gives stunning views throughout. It is a it's 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.319 a place that like, no matter how many times you've 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.600 been there, you kind of walk like with like this 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.600 like turn like you're always kind of angled a little 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.840 bit because you're looking at the lake to your left 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.640 or right, depending on which way you're walking. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.040 I believe there are eight holes along the coast, but 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.000 in addition to those, the holes that are inland have 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.120 views of the ocean because of the way that the 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.559 course was kind of built on stair steps, right, Yeah, 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.680 so the fairways inland are higher, so you tend to 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.520 be able to see I said ocean before. I think 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.800 you can see the lake. Yeah, I lived next to 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.960 Lake Michigan at one point. It really does look like 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.720 an ocean. But in any case, you can. You can. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.120 You can see the lake at a lot of different 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.880 points on the course, and part of that's because of 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.840 how that site was reshaped. I believe when Die arrived 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.280 that it was more of a sheer cliff right next 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.120 to the lake, and he moved a lot of that 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.320 dirt from the top of the cliffs inland so that 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.840 the holes that are on the lake are lower. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.480 You see that, especially on the front nine, like the 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.000 par threes jump to mind, those kind of sit down, 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.880 and especially like the seventh hole sits into like a 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.080 little cavity that's cut out. It's the lowest hole in 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.000 terms of like proximity to the shoreline. A lot of 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.200 the back nine plays a little bit higher, but that 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.440 definitely is the case for some of the par three's 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.000 or where he set those in. And now that you 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:07.800 mention it, you think about it, and it kind of 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.640 makes sense, like you scrape out stuff and that's a 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.040 perfect spot to just nook in a little par three, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.600 you know. And and the par three's all play along 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.560 the coast, and that obviously is a big thing that 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.400 the Kaiser's stress with with you know, their ocean front 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.920 courses is if you go to Sheep Branch, there's it's 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.920 no coincidence that every part three plays either directly at 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.839 the ocean or along the ocean like that. That's uh, 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.080 that's not by coincidence. And Whistling Straits has you know, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.720 the all four part threes right on Lake Michigan. So 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.679 you know, it was pretty clever routing how he did 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.760 it because he has all this coastline right and all 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.080 the interest. You know, there's not a lot of interest 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.640 to be gained in inland because the land was dead 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.200 flat and the coast was really the star of the show. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.280 That's probably why Herb Kohler bought the property, was just 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.200 because of the coastline on on Lake Michigan. So it's 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.600 it's interesting how he built the course. Obviously, the clubhouse 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.360 sits back from the lake significantly, and that's where eighteen 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.480 ends and one t's off like just like any traditional course, 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.360 but one gets you out there. And the way he 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.160 oriented both the back and the front nine, so ten 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.560 and eighteen and one and nine are holes that go 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.800 out to the coast and back from the coast, you know, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.760 and everything else there is oriented in a figure eight. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.280 So there's two figure eights on each side. You know, 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.560 on the south side you got the front nine, on 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.720 the north side you got the back nine, and each 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.160 is a figure eight. So what it does is you 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.520 play in the case of the front nine, you play 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.760 above the holes that are along the coast, but then 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.480 you cross over at a par three, which is the 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.080 third hole, and then you get on the coast for four. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.800 Five lines back, and then six plays above the coast, 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.679 and then seven, another par three gets you back on 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.640 the coast. So it's a really cool kind of figure 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.760 eight when you think about it. And then eight is 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.520 obviously right along the coast, beautiful par four, and then 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.920 nine plays back to the clubhouse, but then ten same thing. 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.800 Ten you play out, eleven plays above the coast, and 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.720 then twelve brings you onto the coast for thirteen and 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.199 then fourteen fifteen play above and then sixteen a par 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.040 five gets you back on but fifteen kind of next 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.920 in to right by twelve, and that's that crossing point 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:29.480 of the of the figure eight. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.800 There's an interesting comparison to the Kiowa routing. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.240 Yes, yes, I was thinking about that while I was 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:35.959 out there. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:41.080 Because Kioa is two loops, and so there are sequences 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.760 of holes that all run along on the back, nine 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.920 all run along the beach, and they're kind of all 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.320 on one side at Whistling Straits. The lake front holes 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:56.240 are distributed out across the nines in different ways, and 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.280 so you visit the lakefront at different points during the 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.440 nine instead of visiting it all at once. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.080 It's almost like, you know, obviously Whistling Straits was built 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.880 after Kiowa, and it's almost like an evolution because it is, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.719 in a way a little bit more sophisticated because it 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.800 becomes it becomes more of a treat, and then you leave, 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.720 you come back like you. It creates these gathering points, 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.559 which for anybody that are going, you know, ryder Cups 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.400 are a zoo. It's really hard to get around. You 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.760 kind of have to pick your spot. There are two 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.240 gathering points right at the cross sections of these figure eights, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.319 where it's the sixth green, the second green, the third green, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.679 and the seventh green are all in the same spot. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.080 There's a grand stand. I was thinking the best spot 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.280 might be up in the top of that grand stand 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.480 because you'd be able to see everything from there. But 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.320 that figure eight creates a concentration of energy and a 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.640 place where everything's going to be happening when they're playing 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.040 the front nine. So if I was spectating, I might 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.520 think about going out there if I'm going to catch 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.360 the front nine and then booking my way over to 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.160 the back nine and getting to that same figure eight 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:06.480 point where everything crosses because there you have twelve, eleven, fifteen, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.200 and sixteen right there where you can watch a lot 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.480 of action and getting a good high perch right there 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.480 where you're gonna be able to see a lot of shots. 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.640 So in that sense, it's advantageous if you know what 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.680 you're looking and where you're trying to get for the 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.840 Ryder Cup. But like those figure eights make those really 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.360 concentrated pockets of the golf course because going out to 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.440 either end is a real haul. But those figure eates 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.880 are really cool because they, you know, they kind of 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.880 give you you get to look ahead when you're playing 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.480 and then also look back when you're coming back at 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.680 you know, you get to think about, hey, what happened 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.200 on that short par three twelve, Like when you're on fifteen, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.400 like I can't believe I hit it in the water 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:45.560 there or something. You know. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.880 Yeah, you mentioned the par three's earlier. All of them 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.720 are along the lake. So does that mean that they're 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.880 sort of repetitive or are there ways that Die managed 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.240 to distinguish them from each other? 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.480 Yeah, So two play in one direction to play in 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.160 the other direction to play south, to play north. The 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.040 first Part three you encounter is the third hole. It's 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.280 got a really big green and it angles you're playing south, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.560 and it's right on the ocean or on the cheese, 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:14.320 on the lake. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:19.239 And lifelong Chicago in right here exactly. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.720 It's a middle length Part four, so they vary in distance. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.240 You know, you've got two middle length Part four are 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.920 Part three's and three and seven three being a little 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.560 bit shorter than seven, and then you've got a long 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.240 part three and seventeen and twelve is a short part three, 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.280 very short part three. So you have good variety in 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.360 terms of the distances. They're all relatively flat. None of 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.680 them plays significantly uphill or downhill, but they all have 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.640 unique kind of green complexes and green surrounds that very them. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.720 So the third has a really beautiful, like wavy green 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.320 that has contours that kind of cut in on diagonals 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.120 throughout the green which create a lot of very cool 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.280 pin positions, and it opens from right to left going back. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.800 You know, the seventh a little bit longer of a 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.120 par three that is bench right. I mean, it's so 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.560 intimidating right along the lake, and that one opens from 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.400 left to right, so opens to the kind of the 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.880 opposite shot shape, so the first you know third hole. 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.280 They look they're very similar in the sense that they're 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.040 both mid length par threes. One opens from the right 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.120 to right to left, the other opens from left to 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.080 right and then you go to the back. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:31.400 Nine. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.920 Twelve is a wild green. It is a very cool, 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.760 unique short par three. I think in terms of the 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.840 golf course, probably my favorite hole on the golf course, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.160 right on the lake, and it's mainly because of the green. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.520 It's a green that I haven't ever seen a green 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.240 like it. Maybe a hoopies a hole green might be 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.520 the only thing that I've seen that has a similar 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.040 even flare to it. 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:56.720 It's law. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.840 It's kind of very narrow, and it kind of along 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.400 these bunkers, so you have like a front left side 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.119 that's short left and then it kind of runs on 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.400 a diagonal and then goes serpentines all the way back 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.159 to back. Little pin that's like sits out on the 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.840 peninsula and they better put the pin there, is all 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.680 I'm gonna say. Like, I'm going to be extremely disappointed 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.640 if there's not a pin back there. But in it 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.520 it has the boldest contours of any green, which you 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.720 would expect with a short part three. Like, one of 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.199 the things you can do with short part three's is 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.440 you can push the contours and make it a little 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.439 bit more extreme because it's not as big of a 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.120 journey to get there. So this green has a lot 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.720 of very sharp contours, and if you're not in the 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.200 right section of it, it's gonna be a really hard 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.199 two put. And then furthermore, the way it angles, with 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.520 it being long right short left, that's really tough for 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.800 right handers because your missus are short right or long left, 0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:59.720 which are both in both cases. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.440 Truck, have you told me about seventeen? 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.480 Oh, last one? I mean, so you get like a 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.000 gettabull par five sixteen right before it, and then seventeen 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.040 and eighteen are complete bears. I mean, I think it's 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.200 about two twenty two thirty from the back, and this 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.080 hole is pushed up on the edge of the of 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.560 the lake, very steep drop off to the left. There's 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.720 space left, but it's nowhere you want to be. It's 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.200 almost like you know, if the pin's left, you miss left, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.840 it's almost guaranteed bogie. Very severe penalty for missing over 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.199 there on the right, there's a big towering bunker that 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.280 kind of obscures the right half of the green, and 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.600 the only way to get anywhere near that pin is 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.560 with a high fade from you know to twenty two thirty. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.760 It's a really tough shot to hit. I mean, most 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:49.240 people are just gonna be aiming for the middle of 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.560 the green, trying to hit the green. But you know, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.160 it's a longer, narrower, but it's got that little right 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.880 kind of pocket where you can put a middle pin right. 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.160 So you've got really interesting pins everywhere that you look 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.320 on that green. If it's short left, they have te's 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.960 on the right and left sides, so you could it 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.520 could be a little bit more right, which when you 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.600 use that right pin, a lot of people would automatically 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.639 assume the left t is a little bit harder because 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.560 you're right on the lake there. But that right ta 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.639 what it does is it brings your where you're gonna 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.880 miss long left becomes the lake, you know, as opposed 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.720 to like you can shade from that tea that's pressed 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.359 on the on the lake. It's easier shot to just 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.199 bail right. It becomes harder to bail right when they 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.320 have the t right, which I think they're gonna use 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.040 that right tea most of the time, and it brings 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.280 that the lake much more into your your shot pattern. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.320 So front left obviously you have to deal with the 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.560 with the left side and the lake. Back left you 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.800 have to deal with the left side, and then middle 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.760 right you have to deal with that really really gnarly 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:55.840 volcano bunker. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:56.640 Short right. 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.159 So we've talked about the part threes. What are some 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.760 other holes that you think people should watch out for 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:03.640 at the Ryder Cup. 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.560 Yeah, so you know this is a rarity. Pete Die 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.320 was like, not a big drivable par four guy. No, 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.119 he was a short part four necessarily like that. It 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.119 was like one of the things you noticed at a 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.240 lot of his course is very few drivable par four. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.720 Yeah. And in fact, quick story here when they built 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.560 a drivable par four at TPC Sawgrass on the twelfth hole, 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.520 when the PGA Tour decided to make that a drivable 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.440 par four. This was before Pete Die had passed away, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.040 but he wasn't in public much at that point. Alice Dye, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:38.119 his wife, was still speaking occasionally in public, and what 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:43.600 she said bluntly was my husband did not like short 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.080 par fours that much. He didn't really like drivable par fours. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.280 This is not really representative of something that he would 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.680 want to do. She said that about the new twelfth 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.840 hole at TPC Sawgrass. But we do see a couple 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.520 of instances of short par fours at Whistling Straits, which 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:00.000 is interesting. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.520 Yeah, And I think like one of them, like ten, 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.639 is shorter than it would be because of some hospitality. 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:07.119 You know, I think that tea is going to be 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:08.720 up a little because of hospitality. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:09.320 You know. 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.960 It's an enticing drivable par four for somebody like Bryson, 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.480 the really long hitters. But then like the predominant drivable 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.800 part four is the sixth. It's a really cool hole 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:23.960 because of the green. The green has like two very 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.720 distinct sections, like and I think everybody that's watched tournament 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.040 golf out there has probably seen it. But it's almost 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.760 like it's almost like a pair of glasses right with 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.720 your right and left eye, and then there's a bunker 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.199 that cuts in and is like your nose piece of 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.479 your glasses, and the left side's very inviting, has kind 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.159 of a slope that kicks things in there that is 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.119 a very inviting pin to go for the green because 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:51.399 you can miss to the left and you've got a 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.040 really easy chip. Things get a little bit more difficult 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.639 when the pin's over on the right side because you 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.280 know there's no option. There's no way you could carry 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.560 it there, fly it there and have it stop. You know, 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.919 the question is will these guys prefer hitting that bunker 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.040 shot from just right around the green or are they 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.760 gonna lay up back into the layup area. I hit 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.480 a wedge because it's a really small target, like it's 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.800 not necessarily an easy wed shot to that right pin 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.840 and left the left. I think when the pin's over 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.320 the left, you're gonna see everybody go for that because 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:23.280 it's not a long hole. 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:24.800 I think almost. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.760 Everybody in this Ryder Cup will be able to hit 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:31.720 to get close to it. So that's a really compelling hole, 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.440 and obviously, in the cadence of things, it comes after 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.480 a part five, so it's part of the section of 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.040 the golf course that you really expect to score. The 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.760 tenth hole I previously mentioned, but that'll be played up 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.040 a couple teas. Again, if you lay up, it's not 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:50.439 easy because you never have a visible shot unless you 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.639 get up by the green because the green sits so 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.119 high up that you're never really gonna get close enough 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.560 that you can see the green, So then it brings 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.320 in this kind of awkward wedge where everybody struggles a 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.880 little bit when they can't see what they're hitting it at. 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:06.640 You can see the pin, but you have no depth 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.840 perception and there's nothing good left there. So that's the 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:12.680 thing with the hitting driver. If you hit it left, 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:14.760 you could be in a really bad spot. And then 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:19.080 the final one is the fourteenth hole. Everybody probably forgets 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.000 about the fourteenth hole. I think it's a really nice 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:25.080 little hole and really like maybe one of the most 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.919 slept on holes out. There's a blind t shot and 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.040 you can play out right or you can take on 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:35.119 a big swath of bunkers on the left, and if 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.040 you take on that, you could definitely hit the green, 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.879 like you know, as the crow flies. It's much shorter 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.960 than the yardage on the card, and I would expect 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.240 a lot of guys to be trying to go for 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.199 that green off the tee and you can't see it 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.720 from the tee, so it's completely blind. But you can 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.880 lay up out to the right and it winds around 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.760 the bunker, but it leaves you with like a webshot 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:02.320 from probably not the flattest lye. The fairway banks pretty 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.040 hard right to left to green that you know, it's 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.520 not it's shallow and wide. It's not the easiest green 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:09.439 to hit a wedge into. 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.000 So you've described a couple of greens so far. It 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:16.399 seems like one of the most memorable characteristics of this 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.439 course is that the greens are really varied, and some 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.399 of them have pretty wild shapes. So what are some 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.600 patterns that you noticed among the whistling straight screens. 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:28.800 Yeah, so I think one of the things that di 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:32.440 did really well for his era was build really compelling 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.520 greens that had variety in them, you know that. I 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:37.640 think that's one of the things you see in that 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:39.879 era of architecture was the greens were a little bit 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.560 dumbed down and bland compared to Golden Age, and I 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:46.520 think Die had kind of the most spunk out of 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:51.800 everybody then. And with what you see as nonlinear contours. 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.480 So what I mean by that is this era was 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:58.560 so line oriented, right, so if you built a tier, 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.439 it was a straight tier. All of dies kind of 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:05.000 go on diagonals and they have ups and downs, kind 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:07.479 of like you'd see of a Maxwell roll. It's not 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.800 just like an up and flat. They all have like 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.280 kind of backsides and front sides to the slopes. And 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.760 I think that's what makes them really fun is they 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.680 create these really small sections. Whether it's a big green 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.480 or a smaller green, all of them have very distinct 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:24.399 sections and you have to hit a really good shot 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:26.320 to get in those sections. And if you're not in 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.080 those sections, it becomes like how do I two putt? 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:31.960 Not how do I make this putt? So it really 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:33.920 rewards great iron play. 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.840 So one of the ideas going into this Ryder Cup 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.919 that seems to be popular right now is that this 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:44.800 course is going to strongly prioritize distance. What do you 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:45.359 think about that? 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:46.879 I agree with that. 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:48.600 I mean distance and irons. 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.439 Uh yeah, I mean when you hit it further, you 0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:56.240 get shorter irons, which really helps your proximity, you know, 0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:59.280 especially when you're talking about the best players in the world. So, 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.520 as Joe Lamannia said this podcast a couple of weeks ago, 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:06.600 one of the things is why distance is so important 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:09.400 is some of the faraways get wider the further you go. 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.760 This is a resort golf course. So there's some really 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:16.640 generous spots on it, not necessarily fairway, if we could 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:20.080 talk about that later. But corridor wise, it's pretty wide 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.080 in spots, and there's certain areas where they pinch, and 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.399 I think when it was designed, the areas that that 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.480 they pinch are where the best players in the world 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:32.480 hit it, and now that's where they could hit it past, 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.680 and it does show its age a little in that 0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:38.840 in that sense, right is where all the trouble is. 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.439 The longest hitters hit it past it now, which is 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:43.960 and that's also why some of these holes are drivable 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:48.240 part fours or close to drivable part fours that weren't 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:49.640 when they were designed. 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:53.600 Yeah. One of the things that stood out to me 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.520 when I was reading the chapter in Pete Dye's book 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.480 Bury Me in a Pop Punker that had a few 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:03.119 pages about the building of Whistling Straits is that he 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:04.920 and the people who are building the course the rest 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:08.400 of the people were very much thinking about the distance 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:12.119 explosion that was happening at that time. This course was 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.520 built in the late nineties. It opened in nineteen ninety eight, 0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:19.280 and so this was right when the pros were getting 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:22.439 longer and longer, and some of those advances that have 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:26.520 really defined this next era of golf were first coming in, 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.560 you know, the solid core balls that everybody was playing, 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:33.360 the metal woods. You know, the game was changing and 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.639 die knew that, and on many holes on this course 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:40.000 you can see him trying to respond to that in 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.720 various ways, you know, going back to the prevalence of 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:46.560 short par fours on this course. I don't have anything 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:49.200 in particular to support this theory, but I suspect that 0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:52.600 those holes were ones where die was thinking, well, the 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:54.920 longer players are not necessarily going to have a big 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:55.760 advantage on this. 0:27:55.720 --> 0:28:00.080 Hole, Yeah, I think, But I think also like, but 0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:03.560 the web shot into that six, for example, when the 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:08.240 pens are the right, that's not an easy shot. You know, sure, 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:10.760 if you're dialed in, you can hit it. And one 0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:12.639 of the things that I think about a lot is 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.080 when the pin's over there on that side and it's 0:28:15.240 --> 0:28:18.439 public play, how how do people even play that? Like? 0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:21.040 How do you know there's gotta be some serious ping 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:22.040 pong that happens? 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:25.679 The rounds are slow out there, right, oh, glacial. 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:29.080 That's one of the things about this course is it's 0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:31.800 it is a resort course, and there is some accounting 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.480 for the average player, but it is still an incredibly 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.879 hard course for the average golfer to play. 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.240 Yeah, I mean I would agree. I would agree with that. 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:43.760 It'll be interesting to see how they play some of 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:48.280 these holes, particularly an alternate shot when the when the 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.200 stakes are a little bit higher and there's less you know, 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:53.680 you don't have the insurance of your partner. I think, 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:56.760 like in best Ball, you'll see guys bombs away because 0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:59.440 one of the two of them isn't going to probably 0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:02.080 make worse than par if they both hit it up there, 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:04.600 Like one might get a bad break and a bad 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:06.440 line in the bunker, but both of them won't. 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:09.480 So one of the things that really stands out about 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:12.480 this course is the shaping style. You know, there's a 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:17.600 lot of really bold shaping out there. There are many, many, 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:21.640 many bunkers. I believe Ron Whitten of Golf Digest once 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:26.040 counted them and which which must have taken a while, 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.760 and his conclusion was that the eighth hole alone has 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:32.320 one hundred and two bunkers, and that there are about 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:35.800 nine hundred and sixty seven bunkers on the course in total. 0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:38.360 They're just all over the place, and a lot of 0:29:38.400 --> 0:29:41.200 them have these kind of you know, bold lips to 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:43.920 them that there's some of those volcano bunkers that that 0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:46.240 you saw a lot of ended up seeing a lot 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:51.080 of it dies French Lick course, and so what does 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:54.200 have them? Yeah, the fewer of them at Whistling Straits. 0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:57.800 They have they have made it and multiplied. They are 0:29:57.840 --> 0:30:00.320 all over the place. So what are some of your 0:30:00.320 --> 0:30:03.040 thoughts about the style of shaping that was used at 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:03.520 this course. 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:07.240 I mean you could clearly tell that the attempt here 0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:09.360 was to create Ireland golf in Wiscon. 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.880 Yeah, and Cohler was specific about that. He said to 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:15.160 Pete Dye, I want this to look like Baalibunian. I 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:17.880 don't know if this looks anything like Baalibunian, but that 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:22.320 was certainly the intention to create a Irish Dune's look. 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:24.640 At this course, you know there's some of that. I 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.440 think it's a little sharp for that. It doesn't look 0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.520 natural because of how sharp some of the lines are. 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:35.560 That being said, I do like sympathize slightly because you look, 0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:38.680 especially with the drone you're flying around, you can see 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.640 the land right next door, or if you're driving out 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:44.960 of the property, turn right or left. How flat it is? 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.480 I mean there's nothing, there was nothing. Yeah, so you know, 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:50.840 like he went from nothing to what it is and 0:30:50.920 --> 0:30:54.640 this is a remarkable feat of engineering just to do that. 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:59.800 But I would say, yeah, they're abrupt, it's overdone, and 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.120 a lot of places over the top and a lot 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.720 of places. But it does like you do play it 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:09.040 and you you know, as somebody who grew up in 0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:12.040 the Midwest going to Lake Michigan, it's unlike anything else 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.600 you've seen, which you know, it does have intrinsic value. 0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:19.440 I mean, this is extreme maximalism. This is as maximal 0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:23.600 as you can get isleistly. I mean, I don't know 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:27.400 how many more places had more maximal projects of this place. 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:31.720 You know, in something there is something about the feel 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:35.400 of departing, like there's obviously sense of place, but there 0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:39.400 is also a form of art of departing the world 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:42.520 as you know it and going to different place. And 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:46.080 that's more of what this is than Hey, this is 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:50.600 not the Sheboyk in Wisconsin Coast. It's not that it's 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.200 it's just it's avake believe place. 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.080 So what are some other courses that are kind of 0:31:57.160 --> 0:32:00.840 like this? That take that approach to place. I guess 0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:02.520 Shadow Creek is the ultimate example. 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:06.280 Arcadia Bluff has some of this going on, which is, 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.200 you know, just on the other side of Lake Michigan. 0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:11.080 And do you do you think that's the right approach 0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:12.240 on these kinds of properties. 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:15.200 I mean, I don't know how compelling of a golf 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:18.280 course you could have built without moving much earth there. 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:21.480 It's dead flat, you know, like it would have been 0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:23.680 cool because you would have been staring at the lake. 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:27.000 You know, that's always a good thing. But I think 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:29.600 one of the things that it does so effectively for 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:34.400 a resort course, people are only going to play Whistling straits. 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:37.160 You know, most people will only play Whistling Streets once 0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:39.680 in their life if they get there. You know, that's 0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.240 the reality. And one of the things that it does 0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:45.680 is it will give you a lasting memory, no matter 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:48.920 who you are, no matter how many golf courses you've seen, 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:53.760 the place will make you feel something some you know. 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.120 I have a lot of qualms about some of the 0:32:56.160 --> 0:33:00.200 things out there, with the stuff that people don't want 0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:03.840 to talk about, which is drained touch. But I remember 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:05.600 the first time I played it when I was in 0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:09.200 I think I was in college. You know, you're just 0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:12.719 taking a back that the place exists. I don't know 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:16.040 what the right place is for it. It's obviously destroyed 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.720 a landscape that was there. I don't think the landscape 0:33:19.760 --> 0:33:21.920 that was there was really that special. It's like almost 0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:24.640 like amusement mark park golf in the sense of that. 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:28.600 But you know, I think the design's really good in 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.400 a lot of ways, Like the routing's really clever. There 0:33:31.400 --> 0:33:35.000 are a lot of like really cool holes, and you know, 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:38.120 they created this landscape, so there's you know, you go 0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:42.400 back and forth. Yeah, My biggest issue with it centers 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:46.960 around the way the golf course is presented, given what 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:50.080 the intention and the vision for the golf course was. 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:53.160 You know, I think it's it's over watered. 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:53.800 You know. 0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:56.320 The fairway withs are a joke. 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.360 You know, they haven't pushed them back out since they 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.480 hosted the first PGA, So you get a lot of 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:04.480 what you had a kiwa where you have these wider 0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:08.000 corridors but narrow fairways, you know, And I think that's 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.839 that's one of the things. It's a resort, so that's 0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:14.440 why the way it's maintained, which isn't necessarily right or wrong, 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:17.359 Like banded dunes are a resort and it's maintained one way. 0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:20.680 In Whistling Straight Straits is a very different resort and 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:21.839 it's maintained this way. 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.120 You can imagine that Pete Die would prefer this course 0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:26.520 to play faster than it does. 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:31.800 Yeah, it plays very slow, and that's the complete opposite 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:34.040 of the way it should play if it wants to 0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:35.880 be an Irish links course. 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.160 Yeah. In terms of course, is that emulate a sand 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.360 dune environment. It feels a little bit dated because we 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:47.760 have examples like Kingsbarnes where the effort to emulate links 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:51.520 Land was quite a bit more successful if you're trying 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:54.120 to come up with an imitation Stewart, something that really 0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:59.600 feels like it Castle Stewart. At the same time, I'm 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.320 not sure if it's better to try to fool people 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:04.600 into thinking that they're on a piece of links Land 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:09.200 or if it's better to just create something weird and 0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:13.520 wonderful and theme park like, which Whistling Straits is. You know, 0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:19.560 if it was unsuccessful in imitating Ballibanion, Whistling Straits isn't 0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:22.640 necessarily a failure because of that it has done something 0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:24.760 else and it's pretty unique. 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:28.480 Yeah, I mean it is completely unique. There's nothing else 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:31.040 like it. In a way, it's like it's a piece 0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:33.160 of art because it was completely created. 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:34.720 Everything there was created. 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:37.120 Yeah, you know, it's not necessarily by cup of tea 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:41.440 of architecture. But like, I think another thing that's kind 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:45.240 of underrated about it just in general is how easy 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:49.279 the walk is given how much space they can like 0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:53.439 have for infrastructure, Like the Green to Tea walks are 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:57.359 really really intimate, but yet like they can build out 0:35:57.360 --> 0:36:00.759 this infrastructure unlike anything else. And I know I know 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:05.840 from anecdotally, like the tour really advocates for courses to 0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:08.279 have long walks from green to Tea so they can 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.320 put grand stands in. Yeah, like this place like doesn't 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.759 have long walks green to Tea and it still has 0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:18.080 all this space for grand stands. And that's something that Die. 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:22.760 You know, he understood building tournament golf, like big scale 0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:26.680 tournament golf, maybe better than any architect that we've ever seen. 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.840 Yeah, his way of figuring out where people would stand, 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:33.839 where they would watch the action from, how they could 0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:37.719 have sightlines on different shots is pretty much unparalleled. 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.800 But also his designs because his designs have really endured 0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:47.000 pretty well and stood up fairly well to you know, advances. 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.040 How do you think this is going to compare it 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:52.040 to a place like Kiowa or even a course like 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.880 TPC Sawgrass in terms of the way that it's going 0:36:54.960 --> 0:36:56.960 to challenge the best players in the world. 0:36:57.600 --> 0:37:01.759 It's totally different, obviously, because I think it gives you 0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:04.520 way more space off the tea. Yeah, this is a 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:08.719 golf course that just visually cripples average players, Like they 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:11.759 just can't get over the fact of all those bunkers 0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:14.840 that's all they see. They don't see the like sixty 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.400 yard wide corridor that they have. I've you know, having 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:22.080 played it with my father. It just threw them into fits, 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:25.480 like you know, like the that's the thing is like, 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:29.359 if you're a good player, it's significantly easier than an 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:33.320 average player because just the visual intimidation. So it's wider, 0:37:33.440 --> 0:37:36.600 there's way more space, which for these guys is they 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:40.560 aren't scared of the bunkers, so it's it's a little 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:42.200 gentler off the tee. 0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:43.320 It's longer. 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:47.040 I guess it's not longer than Kiwa anymore because of 0:37:47.040 --> 0:37:48.359 those new te's, but. 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:50.040 It's it's bigger. 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.719 It's a bigger ballpark in a way, and I think 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:56.720 the greens are a little bit more interesting at Whistling 0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:59.840 Straits than And one of the things I will say, 0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:03.279 and this is an important point, is that the penalty 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:08.200 for missing fairways at Whistling Straits is huge, and that 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:10.719 is something to watch at the Ryder Cup, especially in 0:38:10.800 --> 0:38:14.719 match play, because if you miss a fairway, say like 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.880 the eighteenth hole is a great example of this. Matches 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:20.799 that get to eighteen, it is pivotal to hit a 0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:22.520 good T shot there because if you don't hit a 0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:25.440 good T shot there, you're likely laying up back at 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:27.879 like one hundred and sixty yards, you know, like you're 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.680 not laying up to fifty yards. It's not like one 0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:32.920 of those spots you hack it out and you get 0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:35.440 it up close to the green and it's a relatively 0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:38.200 easy up and down for four. Like you're making probably 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:40.600 a bogie if you miss the fairway there. And I 0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:43.120 think that's the case with the par fives out here too, 0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:47.560 that there's a really high degree of missus out here, 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:49.520 and I think all the par fives do it pretty 0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:53.040 well too. Obviously, eleven is converted to par four for 0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:56.799 this competition. But two, if you miss the fairway, you're 0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.960 probably not getting home. And then it's not an easy layup, 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.360 Like it's not easy to get to a place you 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.360 really want to get to if you miss the fairway. 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:05.760 The same. 0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:09.400 I mean, five's like maybe the worst hole is definitely 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:11.759 the worst hole on property and doesn't fit the golf 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:15.360 course at all. Like five alone knocks the golf course 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.759 down from being like really great because of how bad 0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:19.359 five is. 0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:20.839 Why is it so bad? 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:22.960 Oh, it's just a horrendous golf hole. 0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:26.319 It's like a s fairaway and it doesn't work because 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:27.960 if you're a long hitter, you just hit it over 0:39:28.000 --> 0:39:33.640 the s. That hole separates a scratch player from a 0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:37.480 twenty handicap better than maybe any hole in America. I mean, 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:40.880 you'll see these guys. They're just gonna hit it over everything. Yeah, 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.360 and it just renders the hole, Like that's a distance 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:45.680 rendering a hole completely obsolete. 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:48.080 Well, I mean that might be one of those holes 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:51.160 where Pete Die thought in nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, Hey, 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:53.000 this is going to kind of blunt the advantage of 0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:56.200 the players who can hit it three hundred yards. But 0:39:56.280 --> 0:39:57.759 now that we have players who can hit it three 0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:58.840 hundred and fifty yards. 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:03.239 It has been de Yeah, exactly exactly, especially if they 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:06.160 catch it down wind. You know, it might be different 0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:08.640 if they get like a north wind, which would make 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:11.759 it pretty cold there. And then obviously eleven's converted, but 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:15.560 there's huge penalty for miss there, and same with sixteen sixteen. 0:40:15.640 --> 0:40:17.279 And one of the things he did with the par 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:22.080 fives is there's these like little extremely penal bunkers in 0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:27.000 layup areas, like little gnarly bunkers, Like on the second hold, 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:31.520 there's this like almost principal nosy looking thing, and I'd 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.880 love if a ball got in the top of it somehow. 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.799 I hope that happens. That's something I'm really hoping for. 0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:41.839 And then, uh yeah, So I think that's the thing 0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:45.440 is like with the par fours. In the par fives 0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:48.960 more so, you know, obviously like Kiwa has large penalties 0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:52.560 for hitting it into the water, but this place has 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:55.759 a huge penalty for missing without losing your golf ball. 0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:01.319 So what is the number one thing that you think 0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:03.280 is great about Whistling Straits. 0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:09.719 I mean, you're just staring at Lake Michigan all day. Great, 0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:13.759 I mean, it's incredible like if you haven't, if you 0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:15.960 haven't been out there. I mean, it's just like it's 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:17.839 hard to have a bad day when you're just like 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:20.719 walking looking at a giant body of water on a 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:24.560 beautiful day. I say that, but like it's true. You know, 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.400 everybody always wants to say, oh, if pebble wasn't on 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:30.359 Pacific Ocean, it wouldn't be a top ten course. 0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:32.480 Well, let me tell you. It's on the Pacific oce. 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:34.000 Right there, and it's pretty great. 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:37.200 Exactly, Like you know, there's like a there's like a 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:39.680 threshold of like how bad can your day go if 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:42.359 you're staring at the lake all day? Like it's such 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:46.080 a beautiful place, you know, and obviously like the catch 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:50.040 basins are so awful, like and and those are drainage things, 0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:52.120 and I don't you know, I always look at the 0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.040 lake and wonder there had to be environmental restrictions how 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:56.759 they had to drain it. They probably can't drain it 0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:58.800 and drain a golf course into Lake Michigan. 0:41:58.880 --> 0:41:59.640 That probably would. 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:02.800 So for the people who haven't yet gone down the 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:06.880 rabbit hole with you about styles of drainage and catch basins, 0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:09.200 what are you talking about? What is a catch basin. 0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:13.680 Catch basins are are drainage basins, and that basically throws 0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:17.560 it into drainage. You know, drainage that you don't think 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:21.160 about is golf course plumbing and that plumbing then takes 0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:24.560 the water somewhere else. And like think about water on 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:27.480 a golf course is human waste or whatever you want 0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:27.719 to do? 0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:32.200 You know, so you want you want to get you want. 0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:34.680 To get it off the golf course and in another place. 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:38.520 So what you'll see, like if you see aeriols, if 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:40.959 you watch, we're gonna put a video together, you'll see 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:44.040 these catch basins lining the fairways. Now, if your are 0:42:44.239 --> 0:42:48.360 if you're constructing a golf course from scratch, what I 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:51.600 don't understand they've thought about all this stuff, how they're 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:53.839 going to build it. How do you not just do 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:58.640 like drainage, surface drainage. The best architects drain stuff without 0:42:58.680 --> 0:42:59.640 you seeing. 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:03.160 The Yeah, and that's the problem with catch basins is 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:05.520 that they show you how the course is being drained. 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.320 You know what catch basins do. They collect water and 0:43:08.360 --> 0:43:10.680 they collect golf balls. Yeah, and you'll see these catch 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:14.120 basins in front of hazards. So what it does is 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:17.040 it stops the ball from going into a bunker and 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:19.279 throws it into this catch basin where a lot of 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:22.279 balls get into and then you get all these divots 0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:25.319 in them. You know, most people don't understand about the 0:43:25.360 --> 0:43:28.560 real brilliance of say Bill Core or Tom Doak or 0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:32.719 Gil is how much time they spend thinking about drainage 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:36.520 and getting the water off the hole in ways that 0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:38.640 you wouldn't see the water get off the hole, and 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:43.520 using their resources they're building, they're shaping, they shape stuff 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:47.160 to get water to surface drain yeah, as opposed to 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:48.360 using catch basins. 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.319 And then they have to disguise it. They have to 0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.959 tie it in with the rest of the stuff that's there. 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.360 And that's where the real art comes in, because drainage 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:58.920 has to be functional, like it has to make gravity 0:43:58.960 --> 0:44:02.440 work on the water, but that doesn't always match up 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:04.719 with trying to make it look like it belongs there. 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:07.799 And that's where catch basins often fall short, is that 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:10.759 you can see them. There's just this hollow. You're like, 0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:14.840 that's obviously not naturally occurring, and it kind of takes 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:18.799 you out of this illusion that you're experiencing the game 0:44:19.000 --> 0:44:22.080 in a natural kind of environment or something that just 0:44:22.080 --> 0:44:24.040 occurred and was not man made. 0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.160 And a lot of like you know, naturally interesting golf 0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:30.000 sites have drained one way for a number of years. 0:44:30.040 --> 0:44:32.880 And when you move earth, what you do is you 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.239 disrupt it, and that's when you need the drainage. 0:44:35.680 --> 0:44:39.080 And sand helps too. Sand helps a lot. Whistling Straits 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:41.759 is not built naturally on sand. They imported a lot 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.200 of sand, but that's not really what this site is. 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:48.120 And as well, like sometimes catch basins are one hundred 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:52.799 percent necessary, this is something that sometimes is needed. And 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:55.440 Pete Die built a lot of golf courses in places 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:59.239 where you shouldn't have golf courses, and catch basins were 0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:03.160 one hundred percent sent necessary to build those courses. So 0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.320 but this is one where if you're moving that much dirt, 0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:08.480 I think you could have been a little They could 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:13.279 have been much more artistic and resourceful when figuring out 0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:16.520 how to drain the golf course. Yeah, and keeping like 0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:20.160 the basins affect the play like water obviously on that 0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:21.600 you want to get it, you have to get it 0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.600 off the golf course. But you know, the basins also 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:28.840 create an eyesore and create these areas like instead of 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:31.719 a ball rolling into one place, it almost removes the 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:35.160 randomness of where a ball rolls because it collects it 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:36.439 just like it would collect water. 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:40.160 Well, all that said, I'm pretty excited to see a 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:40.960 Ryder Cup here. 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:43.280 You know, we're ended on such a negative note. 0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:45.600 I know something that we have to bring it back 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:48.759 around here. Most of this podcast has been devoted to 0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.520 all the ways in which whistling straits is fun. I 0:45:51.560 --> 0:45:53.840 think keep an eye on the greens at this course. 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.799 I bet you'll see some interesting shots around there. And 0:45:56.840 --> 0:46:00.160 then of course Pete Dye's courses strategically have always has 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.080 been quite interesting, and so I think we'll see all 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:05.319 of those things come out at this Ryder Cup. 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:09.319 Yeah, there's definitely, like you know, lines of charm out there, 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:13.600 and the corridors are wide wide where the advantage of 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:17.200 being on certain halves is pretty large, especially with the 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:20.200 length of approaches that people will have in And it 0:46:20.200 --> 0:46:23.360 should just be. It should be a really aesthetically a 0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:26.640 great watch on TV, and it should be. I think 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:29.719 it'll translate better as a matchplay course than it does 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:44.200 as a championship stroke play course. Today's episode was edited 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:48.480 by Garrett Morrison. Just as a quick note, as I 0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:51.600 always say, the newsletter is a great thing to sign 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:55.480 up for these days with the Ryder Cup. It is 0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:58.319 a it'll keep you on top of everything going on. 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.640 It'll be unique this week. Will Nights right said for us, Well, 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.400 we'll be on site covering it as credentialed media. 0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:05.880 Big big day for Will. 0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:09.600 But that newsletter should have a little bit more insight 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:10.800 than normal. 0:47:10.560 --> 0:47:12.880 So it'll be even better than normal this week. 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.840 And you can sign up at our website, the Fridagg 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:18.759 dot com and you'll get three days a week of 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:20.240 great golf content. 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:21.480 And then during. 0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:23.399 Weeks like the Ryder Cup, you'll get a few more 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:27.080 than three days a week of free newsletters that you 0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:28.880 know you're gonna be able to impress your friends with 0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:31.319 all your golf knowledge. 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