Speaker 1: Is this a great game or what with the Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer?
Speaker 2: Tim Kirkshin I'm his son, Jeff Kirkschhen delayed by one
Speaker 2: day for this release of this episode because last night
Speaker 2: we got who new Hall of Famers set to be
Speaker 2: inducted in July in Cooperstown, Dad. Exciting news last night breaking.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is front and center field news because two
Speaker 3: center fielders are going in, Carlos Beltron and Andrew Jones.
Speaker 3: I voted for both of them. I also voted for
Speaker 3: Chase Utley. This is my thirty fifth year voting for
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame. It's the greatest honor that I
Speaker 3: have and I love voting for the Hall. It's a
Speaker 3: very difficult job. However, these two guys who got in
Speaker 3: deserve to get in. Were you surprised at all, Jeff,
Speaker 3: from what you saw.
Speaker 1: No, not surprised at all.
Speaker 3: Dad.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it the power and the importance
Speaker 2: of both of these players.
Speaker 1: They both deserve to be in the Hall.
Speaker 2: I know, with all due respect that you believe they're
Speaker 2: in the Hall.
Speaker 1: You voted for them to.
Speaker 2: Be in the Hall, and I think it's a deserved class.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be an excellent one, well deserved.
Speaker 2: It was really cool watching the announcement from the plack room.
Speaker 2: They do such a great job there announcing the players,
Speaker 2: and soon, in just six short months, they will have
Speaker 2: a plaque hanging in that room forever, right.
Speaker 3: It's so cool. So Carlos Beltron is one of the
Speaker 3: greatest postseason players I've ever seen. But Jeff, when you
Speaker 3: look at fifteen hundred run scored and fifteen hundred harbyis
Speaker 3: that's a pretty small group. When you look at he's
Speaker 3: one of five players ever with four hundred homers and
Speaker 3: three hundred stolen bases. He has the twenty fifth most
Speaker 3: extra base hits, tied with Cal Ripken exactly with one
Speaker 3: thousand and seventy eight. He was a great offensive player,
Speaker 3: and yet he won three goal gloves, He made nine
Speaker 3: All Star teams, he won the Rookie of the Year,
Speaker 3: he won the Clemente Award, and he had eight thirty
Speaker 3: seven ops for his career, which is pretty darn good,
Speaker 3: especially for a brilliant defensive center fielder. And we don't
Speaker 3: have that many center fielders in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: But Jeff, when you look at his ops in the postseason,
Speaker 3: one point zero two one. It's almost two hundred points
Speaker 3: higher in the postseason, when the games matter the most.
Speaker 3: He had sixteen homers, drove in forty two runs in
Speaker 3: his postseason career. And I'm telling you, Jeff two thousand
Speaker 3: and four, especially watching Carlos Beltron, and I saw every
Speaker 3: postseason game he played that year, I said to myself,
Speaker 3: at least quietly, this is what it must have been
Speaker 3: like to watch Mickey Mantle in his prime. The way
Speaker 3: he hit the ball from both sides of the plate,
Speaker 3: the defense he played in center field, and the way
Speaker 3: he ran the bases. When he tried to steal a base,
Speaker 3: he almost always made it. So that's Carlos Beltron for
Speaker 3: you at Jeff, Are you offended at all? I'm just
Speaker 3: asking that he was part of the signs stealing scandaled
Speaker 3: in Houston in twenty seventeen. People think he was the ringleader,
Speaker 3: and that kept him from getting even more votes and
Speaker 3: kept him out of the Hall of Fame until this year.
Speaker 3: Just wondering you, as a thirty two year old, are
Speaker 3: you offended by what he did?
Speaker 2: You know, I think, respectfully, the Hall has missed the
Speaker 2: boat at times. You know what happens as a player,
Speaker 2: what happens as a manager. Listen, Like the Pete Rose
Speaker 2: debate will never be the same now that he's passed.
Speaker 2: I definitely think there was a lack thereof punishment for
Speaker 2: that team. I think there should have been more of
Speaker 2: a punishment. I've said that publicly and I'm not afraid
Speaker 2: to stand by it. However, I do think Carlos Beltron
Speaker 2: is a Hall of Famer as a player, and I
Speaker 2: think he deserves to be in the Hall. I mean
Speaker 2: that wholeheartedly, despite believing that that team and the coaches
Speaker 2: on the team didn't get enough coming their way for
Speaker 2: what happened with the signs. Stealing trash can scandal if
Speaker 2: you will, but that does not sway me from wanting him.
Speaker 1: In the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: Okay, so, Jeff, I have a look. What he did
Speaker 3: was wrong, clearly, and he has been punished for it
Speaker 3: because it took him this long to get in the
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame. Those numbers, to me, at least are
Speaker 3: first ballot Hall of Fame numbers. He got to eighty
Speaker 3: four percent this year and he's in. I have a
Speaker 3: slightly different look at stealing science again, the way they
Speaker 3: did it. It was illegal, it was wrong, It should
Speaker 3: not have been done. But this thought that and let's
Speaker 3: not be let's not surprise anyone here. When you know
Speaker 3: fastball or off speed's coming, you know which one that
Speaker 3: is a that's a big advantage. If you know in
Speaker 3: out way up down, that's a big advantage too. But
Speaker 3: it doesn't guarantee that you know if fastball is coming
Speaker 3: and then you're going to hit, you're going to get
Speaker 3: a hit, or you're going to hit a home run.
Speaker 3: It doesn't work that way, and I always go back, Jeff.
Speaker 3: This is always troubled me a little bit. Cal Ripken
Speaker 3: and Tony Gwynn are at least two players, and there
Speaker 3: are many more that told me this that they don't
Speaker 3: want to know what is coming. You know, you can
Speaker 3: have any system you want, and they would say, what
Speaker 3: if you're wrong? You know, I go up there with
Speaker 3: a plan. Both Cal Junior and Tony Gwynn told me,
Speaker 3: I go to the plate with a plan. I don't
Speaker 3: need anybody getting in the way of what I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about going up there. These are teammates who are trying
Speaker 3: to help them, but they say, I don't need any help.
Speaker 3: I've got a plan. Does that make sense to you.
Speaker 2: I hate to make it into a basketball analogy, but
Speaker 2: tell me if this is somewhat accurate.
Speaker 1: It's like when you're.
Speaker 2: Going you're driving down the lane and you're expecting contact
Speaker 2: and you don't get it right.
Speaker 1: Or you're driving down the lane on a.
Speaker 2: Fast break and you don't expect contact and you get it.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Like you're not realizing or you go up for a
Speaker 2: jumper and you realize the guy who's taking a step
Speaker 2: back instead of coming at you.
Speaker 1: You're now kind.
Speaker 2: Of in your head about, Oh, that's not what I
Speaker 2: was expecting.
Speaker 1: So I think you're right, Dad.
Speaker 2: I think baseball is hard enough as it is when
Speaker 2: it comes to expecting things going up there with your
Speaker 2: own process and your own system of reading the picture
Speaker 2: and how does the ball come off. I think players
Speaker 2: like Tony Gwynn and Cawalpken Jr. Well they didn't need it,
Speaker 2: But also I understand their regiment is more important than
Speaker 2: anything else.
Speaker 3: Right at Jeff, we have a guy who's part of
Speaker 3: a sign stealing scandal now in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: Do you think thirty two year old Jeff Kirchen does
Speaker 3: this help Shoeless, Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, guys who bet
Speaker 3: on the game while they were playing we're managing. Does
Speaker 3: this help their case at all? Or is this not
Speaker 3: connected at all?
Speaker 2: You know, I think that Pete Rose is going to
Speaker 2: be in the Hall of Fame at some point, even
Speaker 2: though people make the argument of he's already in the hall.
Speaker 2: He's all over the Hall of Fame. I mean, he
Speaker 2: has more hits than any other player, so he's in
Speaker 2: there for that. He's in there because of his gambling
Speaker 2: on the game while he was a manager.
Speaker 1: He's in there all over the place. Same with the
Speaker 1: steroid guys.
Speaker 2: And I know you didn't ask about them, but I
Speaker 2: really think, Dad, Yes, I think this paves a way
Speaker 2: for Pete Rose to posthumously, one of my least favorite words,
Speaker 2: be placed into the Hall of Fame. And same with
Speaker 2: shoelas Joe, also posthumously because he played over one hundred
Speaker 2: years ago. But I do think this paves away I
Speaker 2: think the steroid guys are a different conversation. And I'd
Speaker 2: be curious Dad to turn it around and ask you
Speaker 2: does this sign stealing have anything to do for the
Speaker 2: main culprits of the steroid era.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the sign stealing is going to help
Speaker 3: everyone a little bit. That a sign stealing, you know,
Speaker 3: guy got in. Okay, but I'm sorry, I just don't
Speaker 3: see this as the same as Pete Rose or shoeless
Speaker 3: Joe Jackson. Okay, you are trained at a very young
Speaker 3: age to steal signs, no matter what the case. Now,
Speaker 3: they did it illegally, it was wrong. They got punished,
Speaker 3: they didn't get punished enough according to you. I understand that.
Speaker 3: But there isn't a sign when you walk into every
Speaker 3: clubhouse it says you're not allowed to steal signs from
Speaker 3: the other team. You are encouraged to steal signs. So
Speaker 3: I just don't think you can compare this to Pete
Speaker 3: Rose and shoeless Show Jackson quite as easily as some
Speaker 3: people want to think. And again, Jeff, this is my
Speaker 3: problem with being a voter. Still, I'm asked to be
Speaker 3: the moral arbiter here is what is cheating? Is it
Speaker 3: stealing signs, using a trash can? Is it, you know,
Speaker 3: scuffing a baseball, quirking a bat? Is it using steroids?
Speaker 3: Is it betting on baseball? I mean they're all cheating
Speaker 3: to some degree. And I'm just not comfortable being the
Speaker 3: moral arbiter of what is the bigger cheat and everything else.
Speaker 3: But that's where we are on the Hall of Fame ballot.
Speaker 3: I mean, Manny Ramirez is off the ballot after ten
Speaker 3: years because you know, he obviously got caught several times
Speaker 3: after they were you know, checking, and there were punishment,
Speaker 3: there were penalties and everything else. So that's a separator.
Speaker 3: That's why the Hall of Fame voting is still still
Speaker 3: the biggest honor I have, the biggest privilege I have,
Speaker 3: But it's still really really hard to get it right.
Speaker 3: I don't think you can get it right anymore. You
Speaker 3: just do the best you can. And I know that's
Speaker 3: what I did, and I did that every year.
Speaker 2: Well, congratulations to Carlos Beltron being inducted this July into
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. But he'll
Speaker 2: go in alongside another center fielder, Andrew Jones, will be
Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer this year.
Speaker 3: Right, and I think it's deserving. I voted for him.
Speaker 3: He got seventy eight percent of the vote. This was
Speaker 3: his ninth year on the ballot. Jeff, after Willie Mays,
Speaker 3: he's the greatest defensive center fielder that I've ever seen,
Speaker 3: and I saw Willie Mays. Because I'm almost seventy years old.
Speaker 3: I'll never forget. I did a story for Sports Illustrated
Speaker 3: ones just looking at the play, at each physician that
Speaker 3: is the hardest to make, like the you're charging the
Speaker 3: bunt bare hand for a third baseman, thrown across the
Speaker 3: diamond for a center fielder. I chose the ball that's
Speaker 3: hit directly over their head. So I'm in the process
Speaker 3: of trying to figure out who was the best active player.
Speaker 3: This is, you know, thirty years ago, almost the best
Speaker 3: active player at getting the ball hit over his head
Speaker 3: in center field. And I mentioned one set of one team.
Speaker 3: I went to him and I said, isn't Ken Griffy Junior.
Speaker 3: And I'll I'll be honest with you, it was a
Speaker 3: little exulted because the guy goes what several of the
Speaker 3: players goes what. Nobody has ever been better than Andrew
Speaker 3: Jones at that, And again I saw Willie Mays. No
Speaker 3: one was better than Willy Mays. I grew up watching
Speaker 3: Paul Blair in Baltimore. He was great. But Andrew Jones
Speaker 3: is I repeat, the second greatest defensive center fielder that
Speaker 3: I've ever seen. He won ten Gold Gloves and he
Speaker 3: had four hundred thirty four homers. So the only players
Speaker 3: ever with ten gold gloves and four hundred homers are
Speaker 3: Willie Mays, Ken Griffy Junior, Mike Schmidt, and Andrew Jones.
Speaker 3: That's why I voted a film. Now, you know, the
Speaker 3: downside Jet was even though he started his career at
Speaker 3: nineteen and I was there that night at Yankee Stadium
Speaker 3: when he had two home runs in Game one of
Speaker 3: the World Series as a nineteen year old, but his
Speaker 3: career really really fell off at age thirty thirty one
Speaker 3: and he wasn't even close to being the same. But
Speaker 3: when you have a ten year prime, and he had
Speaker 3: a ten year prime, to me, that's normally good enough
Speaker 3: to get you into the Hall of Fame. So that's
Speaker 3: why I voted for Andrew Jones.
Speaker 1: Well, I think Andrew Jones dead.
Speaker 2: This is so exciting for me because all of these
Speaker 2: guys are from a generation in which I grew up
Speaker 2: watching them play. And I know that sounds crazy, but
Speaker 2: you know, when I was growing up, the first couple
Speaker 2: in Ducks I went to, I wasn't even alive when
Speaker 2: they were still playing, or at least when they were
Speaker 2: in their prime. It wasn't until I hit the years
Speaker 2: of cow Ripken Junior and Tony Gwynn and those inductions
Speaker 2: that I started to say, Okay, I saw these guys,
Speaker 2: but I didn't see cal in the eighties, right. I
Speaker 2: saw these guys come up in the league. I saw
Speaker 2: their rise, I saw their World Series performances.
Speaker 1: That's really neat, Dad, the.
Speaker 2: Two home runs in Game one of the World Series
Speaker 2: as a nineteen year old. But I mean the only
Speaker 2: other one I can think of from a teenage performance
Speaker 2: was it Juan Soto. Was he nineteen or was he
Speaker 2: twenty already?
Speaker 3: Well, Wan Soto hit cleanup in a World Series at
Speaker 3: age twenty, that's right, Ty Cobb, That's Miguel Cabrera, That's
Speaker 3: Juan Soto. It's hard to do.
Speaker 2: And then I mean, going back to Carlos Peltron, Dad,
Speaker 2: when it comes to playoff performance, nobody, nobody did it better.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we had to rename a mister October,
Speaker 2: it would be Carlos Beltrok Right.
Speaker 3: And again, Jeff, he didn't just hit home runs like
Speaker 3: Reggie Jackson did. He ran the bases. He played a
Speaker 3: magnificent center field. So I think the two guys who
Speaker 3: were most likely to get in did get in. I
Speaker 3: was struck by a couple other things. Again, I voted
Speaker 3: for Chase Utley. He's up to fifty nine percent of
Speaker 3: the vote. He's made a couple of really nice jumps here,
Speaker 3: and I think this bodes well for him eventually getting
Speaker 3: into the Hall of Fame. And I voted for Chase
Speaker 3: Utley because I thought he was the best all round
Speaker 3: player on those great Phillies teams, the team that won
Speaker 3: the World Series in two thousand and eight. I mean,
Speaker 3: they had great players, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, who's very
Speaker 3: much a borderline Hall of Famer. He has a shot
Speaker 3: some days, got to really pick it up from here.
Speaker 3: But Udley had every intangible Jeff, That's what I did.
Speaker 3: No one played the game harder than Chase Utley, no
Speaker 3: one played the game more correctly than Chase Utley. And
Speaker 3: I just always appreciated how important it was for him
Speaker 3: to play the game the right way and to win.
Speaker 3: That's all he ever cared about. I'll never forget Jeff.
Speaker 3: When I interviewed him early in his career, just do
Speaker 3: a story just about how great Chase Utley was. He
Speaker 3: gave me the most boring interview of all time. Was
Speaker 3: he was. He wasn't rude, certainly, he wasn't dismissive. He
Speaker 3: just didn't say anything of any interest. And when we
Speaker 3: were done, I thanked him and he looked at me
Speaker 3: and he said sorry like that, like, I just can't
Speaker 3: give you what you're looking for here because I don't
Speaker 3: want to talk about myself. Now. If we talked about
Speaker 3: the team, wow, if we talked about how great Jimmy
Speaker 3: Rollins was, or how great you know Roy Halliday was,
Speaker 3: or you know any of those guys, well, he's all in.
Speaker 3: He'll talk about them all day. But I always kind
Speaker 3: of admired him for looking at me and just not
Speaker 3: giving me anything because he didn't want to make it
Speaker 3: about him. Does that mean anything to you, Jeff?
Speaker 2: I think it's wonderfully humbling to hear that from a
Speaker 2: guy of his stature and his ability. It's incredible, and
Speaker 2: I think one day he'll make it. So those were
Speaker 2: your three that you only voted for three this year?
Speaker 3: Dad, Yeah, And Jeff, most years I voted for ten, okay,
Speaker 3: And there were years where if I had seventeen that
Speaker 3: I could vote for, I would have voted for seventeen. Now,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that today's players aren't as good as
Speaker 3: you know ten years ago or so. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying there are ebbs and flows to every
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame ballot, and it hurts me to only
Speaker 3: vote for three, but I got to vote with my conscience,
Speaker 3: and I voted for Beltron, and Andrew Jones and Chase Obey.
Speaker 2: You know, my heart, my little second baseman heart was
Speaker 2: really heartbroken to see and I didn't think it was
Speaker 2: going to happen anyway, But I would have loved to
Speaker 2: see Chase Utley, Jeff Kent, and Dustin Pedroia all go
Speaker 2: in in the same class. I mean, talk about great
Speaker 2: hands right there, the little guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that'd be great. Yeah. We love Dustin Padroya,
Speaker 3: and nobody played the game harder than him, even though
Speaker 3: I just said the same thing about Chase Utley, but
Speaker 3: that's He's a little guy that made a great career,
Speaker 3: but it ended short. He got hurt, not his fault,
Speaker 3: and it's just I just feel terrible not voting for him.
Speaker 3: But I looked at the numbers and I just couldn't
Speaker 3: go there. So that's the hard part. But the last thing, Jeff,
Speaker 3: Cole Hamil's got twenty five percent his first year on
Speaker 3: the ballot. Okay, I did not vote for Cole Hammil's.
Speaker 3: I seriously considered him. But I think that's a pretty
Speaker 3: good first year showing for Cole Hammil's. That doesn't mean
Speaker 3: he's going to get in one day, but that was
Speaker 3: slightly higher, better than I thought he would do, and
Speaker 3: I think that's a great sign for Cole Hammils.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of Philadelphia Phillies on this ballot, Dad,
Speaker 2: and so you know, not getting Utley in was a
Speaker 2: disappointment obviously for fans. But they have Rollins, they have Hammels,
Speaker 2: They've got Utley. There could be some future from those
Speaker 2: great early two thousands teams.
Speaker 3: Right right, Okay. A couple other takeaways Jeff from the
Speaker 3: week not related to the Hall of Fame. Ryan Presley retired.
Speaker 3: It's you know, he had fourteen Jeff postseason saves. That's
Speaker 3: the fifth most of all time. Ryan Presley was a
Speaker 3: really good pitcher for several teams. I really enjoyed watching
Speaker 3: him pitch. He didn't overpower everybody, but he had such
Speaker 3: a great combination fastball, slider, curveball, everything else. He was
Speaker 3: really good and also really sad. This week, Jeff wilbur
Speaker 3: Wood died. Wilburwood is way, way, way before your time.
Speaker 3: He was a knuckleball pitcher. Nineteen seventy two, Jeff, he
Speaker 3: threw three hundred and seventy six innings. Granted, he's a
Speaker 3: knuckleball pitcher three seventy six, Jeff. If you get to
Speaker 3: two hundred today, you are a work course of the
Speaker 3: highest order. He threw three hundred and seventy six innings
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy two and in seventy two seventy three, Jeff,
Speaker 3: he won a total of forty eight games in back
Speaker 3: to back seasons combined. That's unbelievable. And in nineteen seventy three, Jeff,
Speaker 3: he went twenty four and twenty so he Phil Nicro
Speaker 3: Walter Johnson, are you a very small group of guys
Speaker 3: who've won twenty and lost twenty in the same year?
Speaker 3: I ever tell you, I went to Walter Johnson High
Speaker 3: School nineteen Yeah, nineteen sixteen, Walter Johnson, get this, went
Speaker 3: twenty five and twenty and he had a one point
Speaker 3: nine oer and he lost twenty games. Think about that
Speaker 3: for a minute. I mean, but that's.
Speaker 2: Let's think about this. How many of those games did
Speaker 2: he lose?
Speaker 1: Was it one to zero? Probably a lot of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Walter Johnson had thirty eight one to nothing losses
Speaker 3: in his career. Think about that. First, Well, he was amazing.
Speaker 3: So last thing, Wilburwood three point twenty four Era twenty
Speaker 3: four shoutouts more than Mike Messina. Well, I only mentioned
Speaker 3: because Mike Messina is a Hall of Famer. He was
Speaker 3: a first ballot Hall of Famer for me. So Wilburwood,
Speaker 3: rest in peace. You were a lot of fun to
Speaker 3: watch in your day. And again, Jeff, just another reminder,
Speaker 3: knuckleball pitchers never get to do that. They are owed
Speaker 3: because people think it's just a carnival act and it's not.
Speaker 3: It's a really hard pitch to throw, and he threw
Speaker 3: it pretty darn well for a long time.
Speaker 2: On the State in Baseball History, Dad January the twenty.
Speaker 3: Five, Yeah, we had a couple of fun things. Shed long.
Speaker 3: I only bring up his name, Jeff, because you left
Speaker 3: our house the other day on Martin Luther King Weekend
Speaker 3: you had to go home early because the shed was
Speaker 3: being delivered to your house and you had to get
Speaker 3: home and shovel the snow. And then what happened.
Speaker 1: The shed got canceled.
Speaker 2: The shed has already been moved one week. Now it's
Speaker 2: being moved another week. And Dad, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you've looked at the weather, but there's going to be
Speaker 2: a massive snow storm hitting the entire country on Sunday
Speaker 2: into Monday, and my shed's supposed to come on Monday.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna get this darn thing.
Speaker 3: Dad, right right Well, on this date in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: shed Long Junior. I love that his real first name
Speaker 3: is Shedrick. But he was traded from the red to
Speaker 3: the Yankees in the Sunny Gray Deal, and later that
Speaker 3: day the Yankees traded him to the Marators. So in
Speaker 3: one day this day in twenty nineteen, shed Long got
Speaker 3: traded twice. And we will talk a little bit more
Speaker 3: about shed Long when we do team tim. Hopefully you
Speaker 3: can figure out where we're headed with that. I have
Speaker 3: a good feeling, okay. Also on this date, in nineteen
Speaker 3: fifty two, Mike Kruco was born. Mike Cruco was a
Speaker 3: good major League pitcher. He's one of the great broadcasters
Speaker 3: in baseball. He and Dwayne Kuiper do Giants games. They
Speaker 3: should both be in the Hall of Fame, and they will,
Speaker 3: both of them will be one day. And I always
Speaker 3: I love talking to Mike Creuco. I learned so much
Speaker 3: from him every time I talk to him. And he's
Speaker 3: got a great sense of humor, which he's always had. So, Jeff,
Speaker 3: do you remember you remember years ago when Terry You've
Speaker 3: seen it on YouTube and everywhere. Terry Mulholland, a pitcher
Speaker 3: for then the Giants, the ball a one hop comebacker
Speaker 3: came to him and the ball got stuck in his glove,
Speaker 3: so he couldn't get the ball out of the webbing
Speaker 3: because it was trapped. So he threw the glove to
Speaker 3: Bob Bredley, the first baseman, for the out, and Mike
Speaker 3: Ruco said after the game, I still get a kick
Speaker 3: out of this this many years later, he told Bredley,
Speaker 3: you blew it. You should have whipped it around the infield.
Speaker 3: Should have whipped the glove around the infield. That's my
Speaker 3: Kruco for it. Love that, Love that all right, That's
Speaker 3: this day in baseball history.
Speaker 2: Chat well, Dad, we did one through fifty five, the
Speaker 2: best players to wear each number, from Ozzie to Oral,
Speaker 2: and so now starting this year we did from Burley
Speaker 2: to Behemoth, from fifty six to ninety nine, and Dad,
Speaker 2: we're on number fifty eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been pretty easy so far. Mark Burley, of
Speaker 3: course was number fifty six. Fifty seven was Ohan Santana.
Speaker 3: It was a pretty good choice. And number fifty eight
Speaker 3: is Jonathan Paplebon, who saved three hundred and sixty eight games.
Speaker 3: He two hundred and nineteen of them for the Red Sox,
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty three of them for the Phillies.
Speaker 3: And I've always got a big kick out of papal
Speaker 3: Bond because he's he's got a playful way about him.
Speaker 3: And Tito Frank Godo, who's made me laugh so many times.
Speaker 3: Jeff told us that, you know, he plays cribbage before
Speaker 3: every game, and papal Bond said, hey, how about how
Speaker 3: how about if I get to play, you're going to
Speaker 3: teach me how to place. Of course, they play for money,
Speaker 3: and Tito's like a great cribbage player and papal ban
Speaker 3: was just learning, so he wasn't very good. So he
Speaker 3: lost a lot of games and lost a lot of money.
Speaker 3: As Tito won stild he said he built my he
Speaker 3: finished my basement for me, meaning the money that Tito
Speaker 3: won playing cribbage against John paple Bond got him the
Speaker 3: basement finished in his house. I'm sorry, I love that.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's incredible. We love Jonathan Bapplebon and
Speaker 2: we love Tito. We loved Tito, had him as a
Speaker 2: guest when he was not managing a team. We got
Speaker 2: him right at the right time, Dad, because he took
Speaker 2: that Reds team to the playoffs last year, and only
Speaker 2: exciting stuff for him this year. All right, Dad, three
Speaker 2: cards from the bathroom, and took three cards out of
Speaker 2: the basement bathroom. We got a whole collection down there
Speaker 2: at a display on the mirror, and in a mitt
Speaker 2: down there, who.
Speaker 3: Do you have? Yeah, I just close my eyes and
Speaker 3: stick my hand in there. I don't just pick three,
Speaker 3: because I can't do this for just three. But sometimes.
Speaker 3: This time I picked six, and I came up with
Speaker 3: three that I would like to talk about out of
Speaker 3: the sixth. First one is Framber Valdez, still a free agent,
Speaker 3: a very good pitcher. The combination of that curveball and
Speaker 3: that hard sinker is just devastating. I'm always amazed, Jeff,
Speaker 3: and I've told you this before. I've seen him play
Speaker 3: long He's left handed, but I've seen him play long
Speaker 3: toss right handed many times, and it just amazes me
Speaker 3: that he looks right handed as he's throwing with his
Speaker 3: right hand. Who did we learn last week? Was Ambidexterres
Speaker 3: as a kid and still is today.
Speaker 2: Don't tell me you forgot it was last week, Kelly Kirkson.
Speaker 3: Well, we always I'm.
Speaker 2: Kidding Dad, Don Mattingly, It's Don Mattingley, who was our
Speaker 2: guest last week. If you missed it, we kind of
Speaker 2: treated it like a bonus episode, but it's waiting for you.
Speaker 2: Donnie Baseball was absolutely incredible, just recently named as the
Speaker 2: bench coach for the Phillies, but nonetheless a great baseball player,
Speaker 2: A great baseball player in his day.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's who we found out right, because.
Speaker 3: He was one of the great first basemen defensively of
Speaker 3: all time. Left handed, of course, but when he was
Speaker 3: growing up he would catch, play second base, play third base,
Speaker 3: and as kid he would play those positions right handed,
Speaker 3: which is just incredible to me. All right. Number two
Speaker 3: is Mike Wit. The only perfect game that I have
Speaker 3: ever covered was Mike WIT's perfect game on the last
Speaker 3: day of the nineteen eighty four season. He was pitching
Speaker 3: for the Angels. I was covering the Rangers, and that
Speaker 3: was the end of the season. Final game. Game lasted
Speaker 3: like an hour and forty eight minutes. Everyone wanted to
Speaker 3: go home. And let's see if you can remember, because
Speaker 3: I know I've told you this story before. Marv Foley
Speaker 3: made the last out of that perfect game as a
Speaker 3: pinch hitter. Do you remember what the distinction was of
Speaker 3: Marv Foley specific to that perfect game. I don't want
Speaker 3: to torture you on this, Jem. It was the last
Speaker 3: at bat that he took every A League career in
Speaker 3: his career, The last at bat he ever took was
Speaker 3: the final out of a perfect game. Again, Jeff, only
Speaker 3: in baseball can this happen? And number three is Ramone Martinez,
Speaker 3: who is his younger brother Jeff.
Speaker 1: Pedro.
Speaker 3: Yes, and Ramone was much taller than Pedro. Ramon, by
Speaker 3: the way, had more career shutouts than Pedro did. I mean?
Speaker 3: Ramon had filthy stuff. And I'll never forget the first
Speaker 3: time I met him. This is Dodger days, you know,
Speaker 3: thirty forty years ago, whatever it was. And after I
Speaker 3: shake his hand, Eric Carris of the Dodgers comes up
Speaker 3: to me and he said, did you notice his forearms?
Speaker 3: And I went, what, he goes, He's got the longest
Speaker 3: forearms I've ever seen. So I go back to Ramone
Speaker 3: Martinez and I say, show me your forearms and they
Speaker 3: were like this much longer, Jeff than anybody else's forearms.
Speaker 3: So that incredible whip action that he used to get
Speaker 3: on his breaking ball was in part because he had
Speaker 3: these really long, flexible forearms. So his brother Pedro Hall
Speaker 3: of Famer, of course, had the biggest fingers, biggest hands,
Speaker 3: triple jointed, can manipulate the ball any way you wanted.
Speaker 3: Because of those great hands. His brother Ramone, who I
Speaker 3: repeat had more career shutouts than Pedro, he had these
Speaker 3: long whip action forearms, which made him an even better pitcher.
Speaker 3: I just love the little things like that. You recognize, well,
Speaker 3: I needed help recognizing, but that was one of the
Speaker 3: great attributes of Ramone Martinez.
Speaker 2: And if there's one thing to learn about Tim Kirkshon
Speaker 2: is if you have a body part that's even a
Speaker 2: little bit strange. He's gonna ask you about it, that's
Speaker 2: for sure. If your head can fit multiple beers in
Speaker 2: the helmet, he's gonna ask you about it. If you
Speaker 2: can palm a basketball, he's gonna ask you about it. Okay,
Speaker 2: if you can open up a can of soda with
Speaker 2: your toes, he's gonna ask you about it and make
Speaker 2: you do it, because he's writing a story another chapter
Speaker 2: in his book called soda toes or whatever you're doing,
Speaker 2: you always have the best stories, Dad, because that's because
Speaker 2: you're the most curious guy out there. And that's what
Speaker 2: we love about you. That's what we love about your work.
Speaker 3: Let's see how well you listen, Jeff. Sandy Kofax you
Speaker 3: talk to you about many times with the biggest hands
Speaker 3: you'll ever see on a picture. How what shoe size
Speaker 3: did Sandy Kofax wear or what does he still wear?
Speaker 3: He told us this in October after a World Series game.
Speaker 3: Say it, you know it?
Speaker 1: I can't remember, Dad.
Speaker 3: It's a fifteen fifteen he's like just over six feet tallity,
Speaker 3: whereas a fifteen shoe? I love it, Sandy Kofax. Yes,
Speaker 3: you're right, Jeff. Those things intrigue me because sometimes just
Speaker 3: a little bit of difference, you know, allows you to
Speaker 3: be even better at something. If a body part really
Speaker 3: works well, whether it's big hands, big feet, small feet,
Speaker 3: little fingers, thick fingers, whatever it is. I love that
Speaker 3: stuff and you're right, So thank you.
Speaker 2: Let's wrap up today's episode Dad with a team Tim.
Speaker 2: I mean you already mentioned my shed. Thanks for bringing
Speaker 2: up such an unpleasant subject. Why don't you give me
Speaker 2: a paper cut? And boyd lemon juice in it? What's closed?
Speaker 2: Miracle Max?
Speaker 3: Right? Okay, Jeff, So shed was an obvious one. So
Speaker 3: this is the all building slash structure team, okay it
Speaker 3: and I vowed I vowed at the beginning of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty six to have a team Tim for every episode
Speaker 3: that we do. So they are going to be many
Speaker 3: stretches in here, but we're going to start with Shed
Speaker 3: Long as our second baseman. Derek Hall is our first
Speaker 3: basement because a hall is a structure, right. Austin Barnes
Speaker 3: multiple plural barns, even though there's an es. Brady House
Speaker 3: is our third baseman. Rocky Bridges is our shortstop. Ryan
Speaker 3: Church is one outfielder. Jake Cave which is a structure
Speaker 3: of sorts. People have actually survived living in a cave.
Speaker 3: And Charlie Abbey is one of our outfielders. I never
Speaker 3: heard of him, but I looked up Abby and there
Speaker 3: he was. By the way, Jeff, Let's just show you
Speaker 3: how one minded I am, about how little I know
Speaker 3: about so much. When Downtown Abbey came out, you remember, yes,
Speaker 3: my mother grew up in England, I thought it was
Speaker 3: Downtown Abbey. I thought it was about an abbey that
Speaker 3: was located downtown that wasn't nearly as bad as when
Speaker 3: Martine Prado, who was a really good hitter for Thes
Speaker 3: and then the Marlins. I said on Baseball Tonight, this
Speaker 3: is at least twenty years ago. And Wendy Nicks love
Speaker 3: Wendy Nick. She was the host of the show. So
Speaker 3: I made a joke, even though it really turned against me.
Speaker 3: The Devilwaar's Prato is what I said. And I didn't
Speaker 3: know the difference, and Wendy said, like corrected me, like
Speaker 3: scolded me on the air and said, Tim, it's the
Speaker 3: devilwars Prada, not Prado. But since the only thing I
Speaker 3: knew that resembled that was the second basement, third baseman,
Speaker 3: Martine Prado. That was pretty bad, Jeff. Sorry, and Wendy
Speaker 3: had every right to Yellavie all right, last our pictures.
Speaker 3: We have a bunch, but I'm Austin Kitchen pitched in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. Love that name. Wally Bunker really good.
Speaker 3: Oriole in the mid sixties, live in a bunker for
Speaker 3: a while. And Doc ellis a former pirates pitcher, of course,
Speaker 3: and a doc is a structure of sorts. So that's
Speaker 3: the all building structure team this day on Hall of
Speaker 3: Fame week. That was not a Hall of Fame list,
Speaker 3: but shed just got my attention, Jeff, because of all
Speaker 3: that you went through with your shed.
Speaker 1: And that was good.
Speaker 2: But I would say it was as big of a
Speaker 2: stretch as Randy Johnson and a couple of those. That
Speaker 2: was a bigger stretch of Willie McCovey.
Speaker 3: That was his nickname. It was a bigger stretch than
Speaker 3: Steve Russian and that's his nickname too. Stretch, Yeah, Stretch.
Speaker 1: Steve Russian, father of two or three children. I love
Speaker 1: him all right, Dad.
Speaker 2: Well, the Hall of Fame class will grow by three
Speaker 2: come July with Jeff Kent previously announced from the Contemporary Committee,
Speaker 2: and then of course Andrew Jones and Carlos Speltrom will
Speaker 2: join as well. Now we can't make promises, but the
Speaker 2: last couple of years we've you know, popped over to
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame for a little bit of love,
Speaker 2: and so maybe we'll be back this year. I'm really
Speaker 2: looking forward to. Cooper's Down is like the happiest, greatest
Speaker 2: place on earth. Dat I know it brings you so
Speaker 2: much joy. You are now a member of the Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame as a baseball writer, deservedly so. And hopefully
Speaker 2: you and I will get to head back.
Speaker 1: There this summer because it's really special.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to repeat you, greatest privilege I have,
Speaker 3: greatest honor I have in the business is being able
Speaker 3: to vote for the Hall of Fame because Carlos Beltron
Speaker 3: and Andrew Jones's life changed to yesterday when they were
Speaker 3: inducted into the Hall of Fame. It's so good.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening, and as always, thanks
Speaker 2: for being a part of our family.