Speaker 1: Cool media.
Speaker 2: It could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, still banned from
Speaker 2: one of the top fifteen highest endowment universities in the country,
Speaker 2: but I am not banned from this podcast. Today, I'm
Speaker 2: joined by Robert Evans and James Stout to discuss the
Speaker 2: very troubling news of students having their visas and or
Speaker 2: green cards revoked by US customs in relation to anti
Speaker 2: genocide protests. James, this is something that you've been putting
Speaker 2: together a piece on for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, repeatedly trying to warn people of Cassandra like to
Speaker 3: no avail.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I do feel like we kind of saw
Speaker 4: this one coming a little bit, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 4: it's not bad. And specifically, the case we're talking about today,
Speaker 4: I think is particularly egregious because it doesn't actually involve
Speaker 4: somewhat visa.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: So I've been working for a while on people who
Speaker 4: actually under the Biden administration were potentially facing deportation, right.
Speaker 4: But the material difference between that and now is that
Speaker 4: those people were facing deportation because the university removed their
Speaker 4: visas or the university removed them from the university, and
Speaker 4: therefore their visa was no longer valid. In this case,
Speaker 4: it seems that the order came directly from the State
Speaker 4: Department to deport a guy whose name is Mahoud Khalil.
Speaker 4: So Khalil was a prominent activist in the encampment at
Speaker 4: Columbia right. But what's notable is that and the events here,
Speaker 4: as best we can tell, went down like this. Referencing
Speaker 4: an ap article here that will link in the show notes,
Speaker 4: ICE agents came to his front door, which is on
Speaker 4: university property, and told him that they were revoking his
Speaker 4: student visa and therefore he was being deported. He then
Speaker 4: informed them that he didn't have a student visa, that
Speaker 4: he was a legal permanent resident right colloquially referred to
Speaker 4: as a Green card holder. They then told him or
Speaker 4: his lawyer. At some point he got his lawyer on
Speaker 4: the phone and was communicating with them through his lawyer.
Speaker 4: They then told the lawyer that they were revoking the
Speaker 4: green card, and at some point it's reported that they
Speaker 4: attempted to detain his wife, who was a US citizen, which.
Speaker 1: Of course is not a thing that ICE can do.
Speaker 4: So the difference between a legal permanent resident and a
Speaker 4: student visa is like the place I want to start
Speaker 4: this because they are materially very different.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Student visas are pretty fragile. People lose their student visas
Speaker 4: for lots of things all the time. A green card
Speaker 4: is a much higher barrier, and the revocation of his
Speaker 4: green card. We spoke a lot before this episode about
Speaker 4: like exactly kind of where this comes from in Trump's
Speaker 4: missmash of executive orders and speeches, right because after he
Speaker 4: was detained, we saw Trump truthing about specifically using the
Speaker 4: word green card.
Speaker 1: We also saw Mark A.
Speaker 4: Rubio tweeting about removing green cards, right, Rubio being a
Speaker 4: Secretary of State. Normally the green card wouldn't be a
Speaker 4: state department thing. Now, it seems the most likely course
Speaker 4: of events, as far as we can tell from what
Speaker 4: we know right now and today is the tenth of March,
Speaker 4: is that Ice came thinking he had a student visa.
Speaker 4: It's not particularly uncommon for ice raids to not have
Speaker 4: all the information on someone. From what I understand, I mean,
Speaker 4: this is just a police thing. Yes, it's not just
Speaker 4: like the cops who are doing raids very often don't
Speaker 4: have all or accurate information. Yeah, ice in particularly very
Speaker 4: often don't have a judicial warrant. They have a warrant
Speaker 4: that they made they assign themselves, which is a different thing.
Speaker 4: They're supposed to require warrant to get onto Columbia University campus,
Speaker 4: but as of now, I don't believe Columbia have clarified
Speaker 4: that they did have, and I think the apology also
Speaker 4: allows for them to allow ice on to cas in
Speaker 4: like exigent circumstances. So we'll have to see what exactly
Speaker 4: that warrant was for why exactly Columbia allowed them onto campus.
Speaker 4: So it seems like they came a temperature evoke this
Speaker 4: guy student visa, realized you didn't have a student visa,
Speaker 4: detained him anyway, and then kind of exposed facto. The
Speaker 4: these tweets and statements came out. But Garrison, you found
Speaker 4: some stuff in. I mean, Trump has made previous statements
Speaker 4: that are kind of unclear, right. He uses the word
Speaker 4: aliens a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've been trying to kind of figure out
Speaker 2: the exact details of like what is going on, what
Speaker 2: justification they have for doing this, and how we can
Speaker 2: like extrapolate this out to larger trends because reporting like
Speaker 2: legal residents for college protests is pretty insane and Also
Speaker 2: the rhetoric coming out of the White House and like
Speaker 2: the White House like social media accounts around this incident
Speaker 2: is like extremely worrying, Like the way they're basically putting
Speaker 2: up like wanted posters for protesters, and in general, the
Speaker 2: way that the White House account has been doing this
Speaker 2: like own the libs, like mimetic nationalism that the past
Speaker 2: few weeks has been has been really upsetting. And this
Speaker 2: has continued around this issue, and I think it is
Speaker 2: worth focusing on this as like a specific escalation because
Speaker 2: you had people like mamad U Tall, who I think
Speaker 2: Cornell tried to revoke their student visa and then he's
Speaker 2: in some way negotiated back into that to stay on.
Speaker 2: The interim provost John Ceciliano eventually ruled in Tall's favor
Speaker 2: so he did not end up getting deported last year.
Speaker 2: And now this new development in relation to the Columbia
Speaker 2: protests is a significant escalation. Yeah, because not only is
Speaker 2: this not just like the university revoking n F one,
Speaker 2: which they do have the you know, authority to, this
Speaker 2: is like coming directly from the Trump administration where they're
Speaker 2: they're going after specific students without the involvement of the
Speaker 2: university and students who maybe legal permanent residents.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Garrison found a fact sheet on white House dot gov
Speaker 4: where Trump is quoted as saying, quote to all resident
Speaker 4: aliens who joined in the pro Jahadest protests, we put
Speaker 4: you on notice. Come twenty twenty five, we will find
Speaker 4: you and we will deport you.
Speaker 3: And that would seem to include the legal permanent residence. Yes, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: like resident alien is attacked status. But again, like, I
Speaker 3: think it's quite possible that the vagueness in the language
Speaker 3: is deliberate, not necessarily from Trump, but there are other
Speaker 3: people within the Trump cabinet who might seek to use
Speaker 3: that vagueness for things like this, right, like who might
Speaker 3: see that as a benefit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and you've seen that with other things, like
Speaker 2: with like with Rubio's State Department directives on trans people
Speaker 2: right now, where they keep the language intentionally vague. They
Speaker 2: leave the enforcement up to like individual actors, and then
Speaker 2: they can eventually like figure out the logistics like in
Speaker 2: court once people be like oh no, this is illegal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so like, yeah, it is vague because they want to
Speaker 2: test the actual like full authority of their power. But
Speaker 2: I think the specific fact sheet which is like a
Speaker 2: sister article towards this executive order says like James was saying,
Speaker 2: to all the resident aliens who joined in the pro
Speaker 2: gihatist protests, we put you on notice. Come twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: we will find you and we will deport you. I
Speaker 2: will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas
Speaker 2: sympathizers on college campuses which have been infested with radicalism
Speaker 2: like never before. So there you have him saying both
Speaker 2: resident aliens, which we can infer probably refers to Green cardholders,
Speaker 2: as well as student visas. So these are two separate
Speaker 2: things that he has specifically named as going after. And
Speaker 2: now you see more direction from Rubio after this arrest
Speaker 2: that happened on Monday. You see more direction from Rubio
Speaker 2: and the State Department in like specifically naming legal permanent
Speaker 2: residents as targets for removal and targets for ice actions,
Speaker 2: which is not something that is extremely common.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Where I've seen it before is like in cases
Speaker 4: of material support for terrorism, which but that has quite
Speaker 4: a high bar of proof, right, that's like a listed
Speaker 4: organization proving a material ie financial or physical support, right,
Speaker 4: like in kind donations like I've written about a guy
Speaker 4: who is providing material aid to the Islamic state called
Speaker 4: Siki Romy's Hodge sending stuff from bass pro actually like
Speaker 4: thermal scopes and hunting scopes and things like that. But
Speaker 4: that has a much higher bar than this, which we
Speaker 4: will see, you know, because we have a legal permanent
Speaker 4: resident here and they're seeking to revoke that. I imagine we
Speaker 4: will see a court case and we will see exactly
Speaker 4: the justification for revoking his green card in that court case.
Speaker 1: That will be some time in the future.
Speaker 2: Let's go on a quick break and we will come
Speaker 2: back to discuss some more of the details on what
Speaker 2: Mark Rubio is actually saying and where this could all
Speaker 2: end up. Okay, we are back. I would like to
Speaker 2: talk about specifically some of the rhetoric that Rubio has
Speaker 2: been using since this arrest and a little bit of
Speaker 2: what he was saying before. Like we were saying before
Speaker 2: the break, some of this kind of vague language can
Speaker 2: kind of be used to their advantage, and this is
Speaker 2: certainly like riffing off of very vague language that Trump
Speaker 2: would use on the campaign trail right where he would
Speaker 2: talk about wanting to jail or deport protesters like in general,
Speaker 2: regardless if they're student visa holders, green card holders, or
Speaker 2: just US citizens. Right, Like, Trump has made statements about
Speaker 2: wanting to do all of that, and campaigns like off
Speaker 2: the cuff statements and actual like government policy are two
Speaker 2: different things, and right now like they're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out where the line between that is, like how much
Speaker 2: of this rhetoric can be turned into government policy. And
Speaker 2: we mentioned like the fact sheet from the executive order
Speaker 2: that I believe was signed in January, which is you know,
Speaker 2: to quote unquote combat anti Semitism. And then like last week,
Speaker 2: so before this arrest happened, we had a post from
Speaker 2: the Secretary Mark Rubio Twitter account official quote, those who
Speaker 2: support designated terrorist organizations including hamas threaten our national security.
Speaker 2: The United States has zero tolerance for foreign visitors who
Speaker 2: support terrorists. Violators of US law, including international students, face
Speaker 2: visa denial or revocation and deportation unquote. So that one
Speaker 2: specifically focuses, I would say, pretty firmly on people who
Speaker 2: have student visas. Right, he names like visitors, And then
Speaker 2: after the arrest happened, he posted a different statement on
Speaker 2: his own personal account, quote, we will be revoking the
Speaker 2: visas and or green cards of HAMAS supporters in America
Speaker 2: so that they can be deported unquote, sharing an ap article.
Speaker 2: And then the Homeland Security dhs gov account posted on
Speaker 2: March nine, twenty twenty five, and supported President Trump's executive
Speaker 2: orders prohibiting anti Semitism, and in coordination with the Department
Speaker 2: of State, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Mahmud Khalil,
Speaker 2: a former Columbia University graduate student. Khalil led activities aligned
Speaker 2: to HAMAS, a designated terrorist organization ICE in the Department
Speaker 2: of State are committed to enforcing President Trump's executive orders
Speaker 2: and protecting US national security unquote. And there's now been
Speaker 2: a flurry of posts from both the White House account
Speaker 2: and DTESS accounts basically posting like a picture of this
Speaker 2: person saying that he's aligned with HAMAS in celebration, almost
Speaker 2: like styled after a wanted poster, but instead of just
Speaker 2: reads like arrested, and that is like the that's the
Speaker 2: rhetoric that like they're using right now on their official accounts,
Speaker 2: something that like James I think noted, it's it's important
Speaker 2: to like think about if ICE was just freestyling this action,
Speaker 2: or if there was a directive beforehand to go after
Speaker 2: green cards specifically, right, And it seems like at least
Speaker 2: for the people like doing the raid, they did not
Speaker 2: care nor did they like. No, they weren't informed. They
Speaker 2: just were told to go after this person. Yeah, from
Speaker 2: someone higher up, right, and that that very well could
Speaker 2: be Rubio. I mean a lot of DHS is being
Speaker 2: ran by Steven Miller right now. A lot of this
Speaker 2: feels very Miller esque.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got an update as of the time of recording.
Speaker 4: I've just discovered that Mahud Khalil's lawyers filed a lawsuit
Speaker 4: challenging gives detention, and a judge in New York City,
Speaker 4: federal judge obviously or that Khalil shouldn't be deported while
Speaker 4: that court then considered his case.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was going to bring that up so that also, like.
Speaker 4: His case will be considered in New York City, which
Speaker 4: is probably good for him as opposed to a more
Speaker 4: conservative jurisdiction elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Right, Totally like this happening in Texas, Like in all
Speaker 2: of those districts where Elon Musk is trying to set
Speaker 2: up his corporations, because there's friendly judges, this will be
Speaker 2: handled quite differently.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, this is something migrance I speak to are
Speaker 4: at least aware of sometimes that they don't want to
Speaker 4: enter into Texas because the fifth it is seen as
Speaker 4: less favorable to them, they'd say, the ninth circuit where
Speaker 4: they would be advanted in California. I'm sort of surprised
Speaker 4: if it is a Miller joint that it isn't someone
Speaker 4: like U. T.
Speaker 1: Austin or somewhere like that.
Speaker 3: Now they're going directly after this individual in part because
Speaker 3: he's somebody that a lot of folks who might otherwise
Speaker 3: be like up in arms about a move like this,
Speaker 3: would say because of some of his connections and some
Speaker 3: of the things he said in the past. Well he's
Speaker 3: you know, supported groups that are really bad. Like I
Speaker 3: think they're really trying to find the first case is
Speaker 3: they want someone that they can have a lot of
Speaker 3: like liberals off from being too scared to support because
Speaker 3: he said some things that like they don't want to
Speaker 3: have attached to them. Like that's that's how they're and
Speaker 3: they're going to keep pushing that further and further each time.
Speaker 3: You find some folks who you can scare off a
Speaker 3: lot of maybe what you might call like their otherwise
Speaker 3: natural support base because you can point out this thing
Speaker 3: or that thing they did that was that was not
Speaker 3: great acou types like when I'm not I'm not insulting
Speaker 3: or trying to say bad things about this guy. I'm
Speaker 3: just saying, like, that's that's the tactic here, right, to
Speaker 3: try to paint this guy as like, well, this guy
Speaker 3: did this, bat you do really want to support that,
Speaker 3: which is why you have to take an incredibly firm
Speaker 3: stance that no, the government doesn't get to do this,
Speaker 3: the state department doesn't get to do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, regardless of of any things that this person may have.
Speaker 1: Said, that First Amendment is for everyone.
Speaker 4: I don't care what he said, you know, so, Like,
Speaker 4: it's also worth noting that Columbia, specifically the Intercept is
Speaker 4: reported on this that there is a WhatsApp group called
Speaker 4: Columbia Alumnife Israel, and they have been explicitly trying to
Speaker 4: identify the students and to call for like prosecution and
Speaker 4: I guess persecution of these students. Like and I think
Speaker 4: the Columbia encampment was particularly objectionable to a lot of people,
Speaker 4: and that was kind of the one that got a
Speaker 4: lot of the national focus in the reporting, right, So
Speaker 4: it's understandable that that's where they went for this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's high visibility. And I think it's also
Speaker 2: very likely that they're just looking to have a test
Speaker 2: case for this to see if they can create legal
Speaker 2: precedent for removing people's green cards for you know, anti
Speaker 2: genocide protests, right, And the specific details of that will
Speaker 2: become more and more or less important based on like
Speaker 2: the results of the case, as long as they can
Speaker 2: create that president right and specifically like the president for
Speaker 2: revoking a green card, something that's pretty substantial. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: want something that's like, you know, in their mind, like
Speaker 2: the most favorable towards their outcome. So I mean that's
Speaker 2: part of what they're trying to do with this specific case.
Speaker 2: And like it is, it is very much in line
Speaker 2: with with Trump's campaign rhetoric and versions of what Trump
Speaker 2: has said before. And now you're seeing someone like Rubio,
Speaker 2: someone who's you know a little bit more policy minded,
Speaker 2: taking taking steps towards this outcome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, which I think is you know, like the other
Speaker 4: thing they didn't get to do, I guess is that
Speaker 4: they weren't able to like deport the guy at hyper speed,
Speaker 4: which they have been joining with some people. Yeah, he
Speaker 4: was detained in New York and then moved to Louisiana.
Speaker 4: People were very upset this, rightly, because it's removing him
Speaker 4: from easy access to his lawyer and to his family
Speaker 4: and to his eight month pregnant wife. Right that's all
Speaker 4: things that shouldn't be done. It's also something that a
Speaker 4: Biden administration did routinely. We have other episodes on this actually,
Speaker 4: especially in San Diego, where we have some funding that
Speaker 4: allows people who are detained access to legal assistance. It
Speaker 4: has been very common for those migrants to be then
Speaker 4: moved to Texas. I've seen it with migrants I've met
Speaker 4: at the border, and I've looked for them in the
Speaker 4: ICE Immigrant Detention locator and they've been moved to Texas.
Speaker 4: It's not uncommon at all. So it's bad that it happened.
Speaker 4: It was bad that it happened under Biden. It's still
Speaker 4: bad that it's happening now. We shouldn't have let it
Speaker 4: happen then, we shouldn't support it when it happens now.
Speaker 2: I think before we go and break again, I do
Speaker 2: want to kind of close this section by talking about
Speaker 2: like they don't necessarily need an executive order specifically allowing
Speaker 2: Trump to do this, or like Trump doesn't need to
Speaker 2: make an executive order like explicitly for this based on
Speaker 2: immigration deportation law, Like there will be an argument made
Speaker 2: in like in court that that they have justification for
Speaker 2: this action already. This is something that I've already been
Speaker 2: through when I immigrated to the country and like did
Speaker 2: like my citizenship interview. Right, like you, if you have
Speaker 2: discussed in the past, you know, something that can be
Speaker 2: construed as support for a terrorist organization that does disqualify
Speaker 2: you from US citizenship and right, So there's gonna be
Speaker 2: a lot of arguments like around like specifically these terrorism
Speaker 2: statutes that will make someone like this a subject for removal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like that that's going to be like the angle
Speaker 2: in which they they go about this, And I think
Speaker 2: that's like worth keeping in mind.
Speaker 3: I also think it's worth because and I don't want
Speaker 3: to make this because a lot of people online have
Speaker 3: this shouldn't be our immediate primary concern. Our immediately primary
Speaker 3: concern should be mood and the other people like him
Speaker 3: who are in situations like be targeted. But I don't
Speaker 3: think it's unreasonable to say that, like if they get
Speaker 3: away with this at some point that we'll start saying
Speaker 3: like look, at least for Palestine government description in support
Speaker 3: for any group that the government considers a terrorist. It
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you were born here as a citizen.
Speaker 3: You know, we can start like that is a potential
Speaker 3: in state of this, which is again not should not
Speaker 3: be on your front burner. It should be the people
Speaker 3: being targeted right now. But also an awareness of like
Speaker 3: this is part of why you have to draw such
Speaker 3: a hard line. Like if if the situation was reversed
Speaker 3: and this where a democratic administration coming after an anti
Speaker 3: vaccine student activist who is a permanent legal resident, it
Speaker 3: would be wrong for them to disappear them, right, Like
Speaker 3: that has to be like where the line is drawn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the state should not have this ability, Like
Speaker 2: we should not let them get away with this, and
Speaker 2: we should put as much support and legal support into
Speaker 2: preventing this from happening. I really can't say which way
Speaker 2: this will go, Like immigration law is the one of
Speaker 2: the most like headache conducing things I've ever had to
Speaker 2: go through in my entire life.
Speaker 4: Oh, Like, he will be spending a lot of money
Speaker 4: on immigration lawyers.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, also be really clear, I'm not equating support
Speaker 3: for Palestine to being anti vax I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 3: you know, if this was like a shitty guy, right,
Speaker 3: it would still be wrong.
Speaker 2: People. It was something that we like to like laugh
Speaker 2: at for getting measles in Texas, disappearing people bare.
Speaker 4: If you thought Russia was doing anti fascism in Ukraine,
Speaker 4: it would still be important, right, right, you know, to
Speaker 4: do this, And should we take a break and come
Speaker 4: back and discuss some more, Yes, yes, I wanted to
Speaker 4: give a little bit of background here some other stuff
Speaker 4: that I've been looking into. So in the fifth of February,
Speaker 4: Attorney General Pam Bondai issued a series of memos. One
Speaker 4: of these was establishing a quote October seventh task for
Speaker 4: so I'm going to quote from it here to prioritize
Speaker 4: seeking justice for victims of October seventh, twenty twenty three
Speaker 4: terrorist attack in Israel, addressing the ongoing threat post by
Speaker 4: Hamas and its affiliates, and combating anti s submitting acts
Speaker 4: of terrorism, and civil rights violations in the homeland. It
Speaker 4: then lifts several action items for the FBI. Right among
Speaker 4: them is investigating and prosecuting acts of terrorism, anti Semitic
Speaker 4: civil rights violations, and other federal crimes committed by her
Speaker 4: MASS supporters in the United States, including on college campuses.
Speaker 4: The final point is quote supporting efforts by the Israeli
Speaker 4: government Department of Defense and Department of Treasury to pursue
Speaker 4: non criminal responses to the October seventh attack and other
Speaker 4: terrorist activities by her MASS. There's a couple of things
Speaker 4: that are obviously non criminal responses. Could include deportation, right
Speaker 4: like if the person that is not being accused of
Speaker 4: a crime but nonethless having their visa evoked. Also that
Speaker 4: the idea of cooperating with a foreign government, a government
Speaker 4: which is currently committing a genocide, potentially against US citizens
Speaker 4: or US residents, is quite concerning. It's especially concerning when
Speaker 4: we talk about that Trump executive.
Speaker 1: Order that we've already discussed. Right.
Speaker 4: One of the parts of that Trump executive order that
Speaker 4: I noticed that I haven't seen any reporting on was
Speaker 4: the quote infantry and analysis of all the Title six
Speaker 4: complaints sort of ministrative actions including in K through twelve
Speaker 4: education related to anti Semitism pending or resolved after October seventh,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Can you explain what Title six is?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I can in Garrison, and I would love to so.
Speaker 4: Title six is part of the Civil Rights Actor of
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four. Right iprohibits discrimination based on race, color,
Speaker 4: or national origin DH. Yes, it applies to federally funded programs, activities,
Speaker 4: or institutions which receive federal funding. Right which will cover
Speaker 4: almost every institution of education in this country, apart from
Speaker 4: some religious private schools. I guess maybe they still get
Speaker 4: some federal funding. There have been a number of Title
Speaker 4: six cases filed for anti Semitic discrimination and anti Palastinio
Speaker 4: or anti Arab or Islamophobic discrimination since October seven to
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. The ones filed for Islamophobic discriminate don't
Speaker 4: seem to be covered by this, but the other ones do.
Speaker 4: The Biden administration kind of rushed to finish up and
Speaker 4: resolve some of these in the last few weeks of
Speaker 4: his tenure, and normally the results were pretty ineffectual. It
Speaker 4: was like some more trainings, the review of policies. Anyone
Speaker 4: who's who's been an educator at one of these institutions
Speaker 4: will have already been very familiar with the sort of
Speaker 4: anti discrimination training video that you have to watch, and
Speaker 4: they were suggesting that you watch more of those videos.
Speaker 4: I'm not really convinced that that is the way we
Speaker 4: deal with hatred, but that's why they recommended the Emory one.
Speaker 4: I thought was interesting because they told Emory that it
Speaker 4: had to commit to a quote equitable handling of protests
Speaker 4: after its campus police were so violent towards anti genocide protesters.
Speaker 4: A lot of the other cases are still pending, but
Speaker 4: it seems like the Trump administration is going to go
Speaker 4: back and review all of them anyway. It does seem
Speaker 4: like whether it's spread organically or whether it's some kind
Speaker 4: of campaign to file Title six complaints. A lot of
Speaker 4: Title six complaints were filed after October seventh, and during
Speaker 4: this time when we saw like campus protests, when we
Speaker 4: saw support by some faculty for those campus protests, right
Speaker 4: and we saw some faculty who may or may not
Speaker 4: have supported a protest but felt very strongly about the
Speaker 4: right of students to have freedom of speech on campus.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure they will have been kind of wrapped
Speaker 4: up in this big drag net too. That this potentially
Speaker 4: raises the specter of like at least career threatening and again,
Speaker 4: lots of faculty are not US citizens, right. They might
Speaker 4: be permanent residents, they might be married to citizens, they
Speaker 4: might be here on a visa. There are a number
Speaker 4: of different immigration status is that they could have that
Speaker 4: are not US citizen that they could potentially lose.
Speaker 2: So what is Trump trying to do about these cases
Speaker 2: which could be pending or have already been resolved.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, what they said is they want to familiarize
Speaker 4: institutions with the grounds for inadmissibility so that that's not
Speaker 4: allowing someone to enter the United States, right, and read
Speaker 4: out the section of the United States Code action of
Speaker 4: the United States Code quote so that such institutions may
Speaker 4: monitor for and report activities by alien students and staff
Speaker 4: relevant to those grounds, and for ensuring that such report
Speaker 4: about aliens lead, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law,
Speaker 4: to investigations and comma, if warranted, COMMA actions to remove
Speaker 4: such aliens. So it's in there, right, Like this is
Speaker 4: in Trump's late January executive order. Yeah, this is the
Speaker 4: legal argument that they're making there, and they're asking universities
Speaker 4: to do some of that legwork for them. It seems
Speaker 4: I imagine that this is the same section of the
Speaker 4: United States Code that we'll see used with reference to Kalil,
Speaker 4: but it refers to like excludable or inadmissible aliens, which
Speaker 4: is people coming into the country. But I guess they
Speaker 4: could make an argument that like he disguised his inadmissible
Speaker 4: status or became inadmissible.
Speaker 2: Sure. I mean there's these two sections, right, There's this
Speaker 2: one that revolves around who can be like admitted, who
Speaker 2: can be accepted. That one section, which is a big
Speaker 2: section one two, two seven, sub section A four A
Speaker 2: dash C, which is the sections on deportation as relating
Speaker 2: to like supporting quote unquote terrorist activities. So I think
Speaker 2: they will try to use these both like in conjunction.
Speaker 2: And I think it's also important to noteubt here the
Speaker 2: use of the word like aliens as opposed to the
Speaker 2: word that like Rubio was using previously, which is like visitors. Right,
Speaker 2: Like visitors, I would say, probably applies more to like
Speaker 2: student visa holders, yeah, non residents versus aliens. Aliens can
Speaker 2: be anyone, right, like aliens can be can be visa holders,
Speaker 2: can be Green card holders, right. And so at least
Speaker 2: in like the official wording here, the use of the
Speaker 2: word I think aliens is important as opposed to like
Speaker 2: Rubio's like you know posts on x dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which now become official policy because we're in the hell world.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: That refers to like just like you know, visitors to
Speaker 2: this country.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the right has used aliens for a long time, right,
Speaker 4: because it differentiates them from people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's very basic like dehumanization like.
Speaker 4: This, yeah, right, in this case, it's I think it's important.
Speaker 4: It's pivotal, so like we have a sense of what
Speaker 4: will happen there. And maybe I could just finish up
Speaker 4: by saying if you are faculty or a student, if
Speaker 4: you're encountering this, you can reach out to us using
Speaker 4: our encrypted email. So if you'd like to reach out
Speaker 4: to us, it's cool Zone tips at proton dot me.
Speaker 4: It's only encrypted if it's encrypted from the sender as
Speaker 4: well as a recipient, so that would mean using a
Speaker 4: Proton or other encrypted email to reach out rather than
Speaker 4: using an unencrypted email.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to.
Speaker 4: Reach out again, Cools on tips at proton dot me.
Speaker 4: Obviously this is something we're going to continue taking an
Speaker 4: interest in, and obviously it's something that we can't report
Speaker 4: the entirety of now because we're still waiting on the
Speaker 4: court case, but we are very interested in learning more
Speaker 4: about it, so please feel free to reach out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and it's something that Trump is also saying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they will be taking a continue you'd interest in. He
Speaker 2: is promising that this is the first arrest of quote
Speaker 2: unquote many to come. So as they could do to
Speaker 2: pocus on this, we will as well. James, did you
Speaker 2: have anything else you wanted to say, like re lawyers.
Speaker 4: Yes, So, as I mentioned before, right, people under by
Speaker 4: administration have been moved away from their lawyers.
Speaker 1: This is very common.
Speaker 4: It seems that now people are being moved away from
Speaker 4: their lawyers and having teleconference request denied. I let's say, Garrison,
Speaker 4: you're a lawyer and you have a client attained to
Speaker 4: San Diego. They moved to Texas, and now you can't
Speaker 4: teleconference in for a ten minute hearing, so you would
Speaker 4: have to fly right for that ten minute here. Yeah,
Speaker 4: which is going to make it impossible both in time
Speaker 4: terms of financial terms. What I'm understanding, I'm still digging
Speaker 4: into this a little bit more, but that's what I'm hearing.
Speaker 4: So this is going to be an ongoing thing. I
Speaker 4: guess if you're an immigration lawyer one of the places
Speaker 4: people are being sent to, like Texas, you can help.
Speaker 4: But you probably already know that, and you're probably already
Speaker 4: doing that, and you're probably already very very overworked.
Speaker 1: Do you work asylum?
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think now is the time for groupsie
Speaker 4: the ACLU to step up or shut up, and we'll see.
Speaker 3: Well, in the ACOU has come out against Mahmood's arrest.
Speaker 1: Okay, good.
Speaker 3: The ADL, obviously totally foreign shocked to the ADL, an
Speaker 3: organization formed to help avoid another Holocaust, does not see
Speaker 3: any potential danger in a state redefining citizensship in order
Speaker 3: to disappear its political enemies. So we love the ADL here, folks.
Speaker 3: But the ACLU did, I mean, we'll see if they
Speaker 3: do anything, but they did, like make a statement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been very good. I should say. The ACLU
Speaker 4: has been pursuing a lot of litigation. It's Trump administration.
Speaker 3: This is the sort of thing they're pretty consistently anti. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: especially at a national level. They've been very good at this,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, you know, shout out to them.
Speaker 1: I guess, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, we don't need to shout it out. It's
Speaker 3: their job. Yeah, they get millions of like this is
Speaker 3: literally why why you're there?
Speaker 2: Do a good job or else you'd better.
Speaker 3: Do something else too, like yeah, you better show up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and no, don't donate to the ad L.
Speaker 4: I guess if you were thinking of doing that after
Speaker 4: listening to this podcast.
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