1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Cool media. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 2: It could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, still banned from 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: one of the top fifteen highest endowment universities in the country, 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 2: but I am not banned from this podcast. Today, I'm 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 2: joined by Robert Evans and James Stout to discuss the 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: very troubling news of students having their visas and or 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: green cards revoked by US customs in relation to anti 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: genocide protests. James, this is something that you've been putting 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: together a piece on for a while. 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, repeatedly trying to warn people of Cassandra like to 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: no avail. 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I do feel like we kind of saw 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 4: this one coming a little bit, but that doesn't mean 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 4: it's not bad. And specifically, the case we're talking about today, 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 4: I think is particularly egregious because it doesn't actually involve 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 4: somewhat visa. 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Right. 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 4: So I've been working for a while on people who 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 4: actually under the Biden administration were potentially facing deportation, right. 20 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 4: But the material difference between that and now is that 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 4: those people were facing deportation because the university removed their 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 4: visas or the university removed them from the university, and 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 4: therefore their visa was no longer valid. In this case, 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 4: it seems that the order came directly from the State 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 4: Department to deport a guy whose name is Mahoud Khalil. 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 4: So Khalil was a prominent activist in the encampment at 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 4: Columbia right. But what's notable is that and the events here, 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: as best we can tell, went down like this. Referencing 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: an ap article here that will link in the show notes, 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 4: ICE agents came to his front door, which is on 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 4: university property, and told him that they were revoking his 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 4: student visa and therefore he was being deported. He then 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 4: informed them that he didn't have a student visa, that 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 4: he was a legal permanent resident right colloquially referred to 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 4: as a Green card holder. They then told him or 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 4: his lawyer. At some point he got his lawyer on 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 4: the phone and was communicating with them through his lawyer. 38 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 4: They then told the lawyer that they were revoking the 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 4: green card, and at some point it's reported that they 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 4: attempted to detain his wife, who was a US citizen, which. 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: Of course is not a thing that ICE can do. 42 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 4: So the difference between a legal permanent resident and a 43 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 4: student visa is like the place I want to start 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 4: this because they are materially very different. 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: Right. 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: Student visas are pretty fragile. People lose their student visas 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 4: for lots of things all the time. A green card 48 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 4: is a much higher barrier, and the revocation of his 49 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 4: green card. We spoke a lot before this episode about 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 4: like exactly kind of where this comes from in Trump's 51 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 4: missmash of executive orders and speeches, right because after he 52 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: was detained, we saw Trump truthing about specifically using the 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 4: word green card. 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: We also saw Mark A. 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 4: Rubio tweeting about removing green cards, right, Rubio being a 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 4: Secretary of State. Normally the green card wouldn't be a 57 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 4: state department thing. Now, it seems the most likely course 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 4: of events, as far as we can tell from what 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 4: we know right now and today is the tenth of March, 60 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 4: is that Ice came thinking he had a student visa. 61 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 4: It's not particularly uncommon for ice raids to not have 62 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: all the information on someone. From what I understand, I mean, 63 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 4: this is just a police thing. Yes, it's not just 64 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: like the cops who are doing raids very often don't 65 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: have all or accurate information. Yeah, ice in particularly very 66 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 4: often don't have a judicial warrant. They have a warrant 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 4: that they made they assign themselves, which is a different thing. 68 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 4: They're supposed to require warrant to get onto Columbia University campus, 69 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 4: but as of now, I don't believe Columbia have clarified 70 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 4: that they did have, and I think the apology also 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 4: allows for them to allow ice on to cas in 72 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 4: like exigent circumstances. So we'll have to see what exactly 73 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 4: that warrant was for why exactly Columbia allowed them onto campus. 74 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 4: So it seems like they came a temperature evoke this 75 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 4: guy student visa, realized you didn't have a student visa, 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 4: detained him anyway, and then kind of exposed facto. The 77 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 4: these tweets and statements came out. But Garrison, you found 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 4: some stuff in. I mean, Trump has made previous statements 79 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 4: that are kind of unclear, right. He uses the word 80 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: aliens a lot. 81 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've been trying to kind of figure out 82 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: the exact details of like what is going on, what 83 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: justification they have for doing this, and how we can 84 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: like extrapolate this out to larger trends because reporting like 85 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: legal residents for college protests is pretty insane and Also 86 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: the rhetoric coming out of the White House and like 87 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 2: the White House like social media accounts around this incident 88 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 2: is like extremely worrying, Like the way they're basically putting 89 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: up like wanted posters for protesters, and in general, the 90 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: way that the White House account has been doing this 91 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: like own the libs, like mimetic nationalism that the past 92 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: few weeks has been has been really upsetting. And this 93 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: has continued around this issue, and I think it is 94 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: worth focusing on this as like a specific escalation because 95 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: you had people like mamad U Tall, who I think 96 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: Cornell tried to revoke their student visa and then he's 97 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: in some way negotiated back into that to stay on. 98 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: The interim provost John Ceciliano eventually ruled in Tall's favor 99 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: so he did not end up getting deported last year. 100 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: And now this new development in relation to the Columbia 101 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: protests is a significant escalation. Yeah, because not only is 102 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: this not just like the university revoking n F one, 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: which they do have the you know, authority to, this 104 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: is like coming directly from the Trump administration where they're 105 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: they're going after specific students without the involvement of the 106 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: university and students who maybe legal permanent residents. 107 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 108 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 4: Garrison found a fact sheet on white House dot gov 109 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 4: where Trump is quoted as saying, quote to all resident 110 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 4: aliens who joined in the pro Jahadest protests, we put 111 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 4: you on notice. Come twenty twenty five, we will find 112 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 4: you and we will deport you. 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 3: And that would seem to include the legal permanent residence. Yes, yeah, right, 114 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: like resident alien is attacked status. But again, like, I 115 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 3: think it's quite possible that the vagueness in the language 116 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: is deliberate, not necessarily from Trump, but there are other 117 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: people within the Trump cabinet who might seek to use 118 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: that vagueness for things like this, right, like who might 119 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: see that as a benefit. 120 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and you've seen that with other things, like 121 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: with like with Rubio's State Department directives on trans people 122 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: right now, where they keep the language intentionally vague. They 123 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: leave the enforcement up to like individual actors, and then 124 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: they can eventually like figure out the logistics like in 125 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: court once people be like oh no, this is illegal. Yeah, 126 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: so like, yeah, it is vague because they want to 127 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: test the actual like full authority of their power. But 128 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: I think the specific fact sheet which is like a 129 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: sister article towards this executive order says like James was saying, 130 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: to all the resident aliens who joined in the pro 131 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: gihatist protests, we put you on notice. Come twenty twenty five, 132 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: we will find you and we will deport you. I 133 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: sympathizers on college campuses which have been infested with radicalism 135 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: like never before. So there you have him saying both 136 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: resident aliens, which we can infer probably refers to Green cardholders, 137 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: as well as student visas. So these are two separate 138 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: things that he has specifically named as going after. And 139 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 2: now you see more direction from Rubio after this arrest 140 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: that happened on Monday. You see more direction from Rubio 141 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: and the State Department in like specifically naming legal permanent 142 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: residents as targets for removal and targets for ice actions, 143 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: which is not something that is extremely common. 144 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. Where I've seen it before is like in cases 145 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 4: of material support for terrorism, which but that has quite 146 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 4: a high bar of proof, right, that's like a listed 147 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 4: organization proving a material ie financial or physical support, right, 148 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: like in kind donations like I've written about a guy 149 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: who is providing material aid to the Islamic state called 150 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: Siki Romy's Hodge sending stuff from bass pro actually like 151 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 4: thermal scopes and hunting scopes and things like that. But 152 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 4: that has a much higher bar than this, which we 153 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 4: will see, you know, because we have a legal permanent 154 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 4: resident here and they're seeking to revoke that. I imagine we 155 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: will see a court case and we will see exactly 156 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 4: the justification for revoking his green card in that court case. 157 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: That will be some time in the future. 158 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: Let's go on a quick break and we will come 159 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 2: back to discuss some more of the details on what 160 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 2: Mark Rubio is actually saying and where this could all 161 00:08:53,160 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: end up. Okay, we are back. I would like to 162 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: talk about specifically some of the rhetoric that Rubio has 163 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: been using since this arrest and a little bit of 164 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: what he was saying before. Like we were saying before 165 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 2: the break, some of this kind of vague language can 166 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: kind of be used to their advantage, and this is 167 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: certainly like riffing off of very vague language that Trump 168 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: would use on the campaign trail right where he would 169 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 2: talk about wanting to jail or deport protesters like in general, 170 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: regardless if they're student visa holders, green card holders, or 171 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: just US citizens. Right, Like, Trump has made statements about 172 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: wanting to do all of that, and campaigns like off 173 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: the cuff statements and actual like government policy are two 174 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: different things, and right now like they're trying to figure 175 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: out where the line between that is, like how much 176 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: of this rhetoric can be turned into government policy. And 177 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: we mentioned like the fact sheet from the executive order 178 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: that I believe was signed in January, which is you know, 179 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: to quote unquote combat anti Semitism. And then like last week, 180 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: so before this arrest happened, we had a post from 181 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: the Secretary Mark Rubio Twitter account official quote, those who 182 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: support designated terrorist organizations including hamas threaten our national security. 183 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: The United States has zero tolerance for foreign visitors who 184 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: support terrorists. Violators of US law, including international students, face 185 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: visa denial or revocation and deportation unquote. So that one 186 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: specifically focuses, I would say, pretty firmly on people who 187 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 2: have student visas. Right, he names like visitors, And then 188 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: after the arrest happened, he posted a different statement on 189 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: his own personal account, quote, we will be revoking the 190 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: visas and or green cards of HAMAS supporters in America 191 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: so that they can be deported unquote, sharing an ap article. 192 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: And then the Homeland Security dhs gov account posted on 193 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: March nine, twenty twenty five, and supported President Trump's executive 194 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: orders prohibiting anti Semitism, and in coordination with the Department 195 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: of State, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Mahmud Khalil, 196 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: a former Columbia University graduate student. Khalil led activities aligned 197 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: to HAMAS, a designated terrorist organization ICE in the Department 198 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 2: of State are committed to enforcing President Trump's executive orders 199 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 2: and protecting US national security unquote. And there's now been 200 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: a flurry of posts from both the White House account 201 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: and DTESS accounts basically posting like a picture of this 202 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: person saying that he's aligned with HAMAS in celebration, almost 203 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: like styled after a wanted poster, but instead of just 204 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 2: reads like arrested, and that is like the that's the 205 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: rhetoric that like they're using right now on their official accounts, 206 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: something that like James I think noted, it's it's important 207 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: to like think about if ICE was just freestyling this action, 208 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: or if there was a directive beforehand to go after 209 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: green cards specifically, right, And it seems like at least 210 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: for the people like doing the raid, they did not 211 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: care nor did they like. No, they weren't informed. They 212 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: just were told to go after this person. Yeah, from 213 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 2: someone higher up, right, and that that very well could 214 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: be Rubio. I mean a lot of DHS is being 215 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: ran by Steven Miller right now. A lot of this 216 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: feels very Miller esque. 217 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we got an update as of the time of recording. 218 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 4: I've just discovered that Mahud Khalil's lawyers filed a lawsuit 219 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 4: challenging gives detention, and a judge in New York City, 220 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 4: federal judge obviously or that Khalil shouldn't be deported while 221 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 4: that court then considered his case. 222 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 3: Yes, I was going to bring that up so that also, like. 223 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 4: His case will be considered in New York City, which 224 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 4: is probably good for him as opposed to a more 225 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: conservative jurisdiction elsewhere. 226 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: Right, Totally like this happening in Texas, Like in all 227 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 2: of those districts where Elon Musk is trying to set 228 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 2: up his corporations, because there's friendly judges, this will be 229 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: handled quite differently. 230 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, this is something migrance I speak to are 231 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 4: at least aware of sometimes that they don't want to 232 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 4: enter into Texas because the fifth it is seen as 233 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 4: less favorable to them, they'd say, the ninth circuit where 234 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 4: they would be advanted in California. I'm sort of surprised 235 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 4: if it is a Miller joint that it isn't someone 236 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: like U. T. 237 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: Austin or somewhere like that. 238 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: Now they're going directly after this individual in part because 239 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 3: he's somebody that a lot of folks who might otherwise 240 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 3: be like up in arms about a move like this, 241 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 3: would say because of some of his connections and some 242 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 3: of the things he said in the past. Well he's 243 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 3: you know, supported groups that are really bad. Like I 244 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: think they're really trying to find the first case is 245 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: they want someone that they can have a lot of 246 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 3: like liberals off from being too scared to support because 247 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: he said some things that like they don't want to 248 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 3: have attached to them. Like that's that's how they're and 249 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 3: they're going to keep pushing that further and further each time. 250 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: You find some folks who you can scare off a 251 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: lot of maybe what you might call like their otherwise 252 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 3: natural support base because you can point out this thing 253 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: or that thing they did that was that was not 254 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: great acou types like when I'm not I'm not insulting 255 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 3: or trying to say bad things about this guy. I'm 256 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 3: just saying, like, that's that's the tactic here, right, to 257 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: try to paint this guy as like, well, this guy 258 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 3: did this, bat you do really want to support that, 259 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: which is why you have to take an incredibly firm 260 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 3: stance that no, the government doesn't get to do this, 261 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: the state department doesn't get to do this. 262 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, regardless of of any things that this person may have. 263 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: Said, that First Amendment is for everyone. 264 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 4: I don't care what he said, you know, so, Like, 265 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 4: it's also worth noting that Columbia, specifically the Intercept is 266 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 4: reported on this that there is a WhatsApp group called 267 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 4: Columbia Alumnife Israel, and they have been explicitly trying to 268 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 4: identify the students and to call for like prosecution and 269 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: I guess persecution of these students. Like and I think 270 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 4: the Columbia encampment was particularly objectionable to a lot of people, 271 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 4: and that was kind of the one that got a 272 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 4: lot of the national focus in the reporting, right, So 273 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 4: it's understandable that that's where they went for this. 274 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's high visibility. And I think it's also 275 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: very likely that they're just looking to have a test 276 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: case for this to see if they can create legal 277 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: precedent for removing people's green cards for you know, anti 278 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: genocide protests, right, And the specific details of that will 279 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: become more and more or less important based on like 280 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: the results of the case, as long as they can 281 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: create that president right and specifically like the president for 282 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: revoking a green card, something that's pretty substantial. Yeah, they 283 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: want something that's like, you know, in their mind, like 284 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: the most favorable towards their outcome. So I mean that's 285 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: part of what they're trying to do with this specific case. 286 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: And like it is, it is very much in line 287 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: with with Trump's campaign rhetoric and versions of what Trump 288 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: has said before. And now you're seeing someone like Rubio, 289 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: someone who's you know a little bit more policy minded, 290 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: taking taking steps towards this outcome. 291 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, which I think is you know, like the other 292 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: thing they didn't get to do, I guess is that 293 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 4: they weren't able to like deport the guy at hyper speed, 294 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 4: which they have been joining with some people. Yeah, he 295 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 4: was detained in New York and then moved to Louisiana. 296 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: People were very upset this, rightly, because it's removing him 297 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 4: from easy access to his lawyer and to his family 298 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: and to his eight month pregnant wife. Right that's all 299 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 4: things that shouldn't be done. It's also something that a 300 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 4: Biden administration did routinely. We have other episodes on this actually, 301 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 4: especially in San Diego, where we have some funding that 302 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 4: allows people who are detained access to legal assistance. It 303 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 4: has been very common for those migrants to be then 304 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: moved to Texas. I've seen it with migrants I've met 305 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 4: at the border, and I've looked for them in the 306 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 4: ICE Immigrant Detention locator and they've been moved to Texas. 307 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 4: It's not uncommon at all. So it's bad that it happened. 308 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 4: It was bad that it happened under Biden. It's still 309 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 4: bad that it's happening now. We shouldn't have let it 310 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: happen then, we shouldn't support it when it happens now. 311 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: I think before we go and break again, I do 312 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: want to kind of close this section by talking about 313 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,479 Speaker 2: like they don't necessarily need an executive order specifically allowing 314 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: Trump to do this, or like Trump doesn't need to 315 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 2: make an executive order like explicitly for this based on 316 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: immigration deportation law, Like there will be an argument made 317 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: in like in court that that they have justification for 318 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: this action already. This is something that I've already been 319 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: through when I immigrated to the country and like did 320 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: like my citizenship interview. Right, like you, if you have 321 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: discussed in the past, you know, something that can be 322 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 2: construed as support for a terrorist organization that does disqualify 323 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: you from US citizenship and right, So there's gonna be 324 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: a lot of arguments like around like specifically these terrorism 325 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 2: statutes that will make someone like this a subject for removal. Yeah, 326 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: and like that that's going to be like the angle 327 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: in which they they go about this, And I think 328 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: that's like worth keeping in mind. 329 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: I also think it's worth because and I don't want 330 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 3: to make this because a lot of people online have 331 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 3: this shouldn't be our immediate primary concern. Our immediately primary 332 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 3: concern should be mood and the other people like him 333 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 3: who are in situations like be targeted. But I don't 334 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: think it's unreasonable to say that, like if they get 335 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 3: away with this at some point that we'll start saying 336 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: like look, at least for Palestine government description in support 337 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 3: for any group that the government considers a terrorist. It 338 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you were born here as a citizen. 339 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 3: You know, we can start like that is a potential 340 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 3: in state of this, which is again not should not 341 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 3: be on your front burner. It should be the people 342 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 3: being targeted right now. But also an awareness of like 343 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 3: this is part of why you have to draw such 344 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: a hard line. Like if if the situation was reversed 345 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 3: and this where a democratic administration coming after an anti 346 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: vaccine student activist who is a permanent legal resident, it 347 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 3: would be wrong for them to disappear them, right, Like 348 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 3: that has to be like where the line is drawn. 349 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the state should not have this ability, Like 350 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: we should not let them get away with this, and 351 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: we should put as much support and legal support into 352 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: preventing this from happening. I really can't say which way 353 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: this will go, Like immigration law is the one of 354 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 2: the most like headache conducing things I've ever had to 355 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: go through in my entire life. 356 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 4: Oh, Like, he will be spending a lot of money 357 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 4: on immigration lawyers. 358 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 3: Now, yeah, also be really clear, I'm not equating support 359 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: for Palestine to being anti vax I'm just saying, like, 360 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 3: you know, if this was like a shitty guy, right, 361 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: it would still be wrong. 362 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: People. It was something that we like to like laugh 363 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: at for getting measles in Texas, disappearing people bare. 364 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 4: If you thought Russia was doing anti fascism in Ukraine, 365 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 4: it would still be important, right, right, you know, to 366 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 4: do this, And should we take a break and come 367 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 4: back and discuss some more, Yes, yes, I wanted to 368 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 4: give a little bit of background here some other stuff 369 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 4: that I've been looking into. So in the fifth of February, 370 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 4: Attorney General Pam Bondai issued a series of memos. One 371 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 4: of these was establishing a quote October seventh task for 372 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 4: so I'm going to quote from it here to prioritize 373 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 4: seeking justice for victims of October seventh, twenty twenty three 374 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 4: terrorist attack in Israel, addressing the ongoing threat post by 375 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: Hamas and its affiliates, and combating anti s submitting acts 376 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 4: of terrorism, and civil rights violations in the homeland. It 377 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 4: then lifts several action items for the FBI. Right among 378 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 4: them is investigating and prosecuting acts of terrorism, anti Semitic 379 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 4: civil rights violations, and other federal crimes committed by her 380 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 4: MASS supporters in the United States, including on college campuses. 381 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 4: The final point is quote supporting efforts by the Israeli 382 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 4: government Department of Defense and Department of Treasury to pursue 383 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 4: non criminal responses to the October seventh attack and other 384 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 4: terrorist activities by her MASS. There's a couple of things 385 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 4: that are obviously non criminal responses. Could include deportation, right 386 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 4: like if the person that is not being accused of 387 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 4: a crime but nonethless having their visa evoked. Also that 388 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 4: the idea of cooperating with a foreign government, a government 389 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 4: which is currently committing a genocide, potentially against US citizens 390 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: or US residents, is quite concerning. It's especially concerning when 391 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 4: we talk about that Trump executive. 392 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: Order that we've already discussed. Right. 393 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 4: One of the parts of that Trump executive order that 394 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 4: I noticed that I haven't seen any reporting on was 395 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 4: the quote infantry and analysis of all the Title six 396 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 4: complaints sort of ministrative actions including in K through twelve 397 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 4: education related to anti Semitism pending or resolved after October seventh, 398 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. 399 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 2: Can you explain what Title six is? 400 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? 401 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 4: I can in Garrison, and I would love to so. 402 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 4: Title six is part of the Civil Rights Actor of 403 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four. Right iprohibits discrimination based on race, color, 404 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 4: or national origin DH. Yes, it applies to federally funded programs, activities, 405 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 4: or institutions which receive federal funding. Right which will cover 406 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 4: almost every institution of education in this country, apart from 407 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 4: some religious private schools. I guess maybe they still get 408 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 4: some federal funding. There have been a number of Title 409 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 4: six cases filed for anti Semitic discrimination and anti Palastinio 410 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 4: or anti Arab or Islamophobic discrimination since October seven to 411 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. The ones filed for Islamophobic discriminate don't 412 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 4: seem to be covered by this, but the other ones do. 413 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 4: The Biden administration kind of rushed to finish up and 414 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 4: resolve some of these in the last few weeks of 415 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 4: his tenure, and normally the results were pretty ineffectual. It 416 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 4: was like some more trainings, the review of policies. Anyone 417 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 4: who's who's been an educator at one of these institutions 418 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 4: will have already been very familiar with the sort of 419 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 4: anti discrimination training video that you have to watch, and 420 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: they were suggesting that you watch more of those videos. 421 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 4: I'm not really convinced that that is the way we 422 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 4: deal with hatred, but that's why they recommended the Emory one. 423 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 4: I thought was interesting because they told Emory that it 424 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 4: had to commit to a quote equitable handling of protests 425 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 4: after its campus police were so violent towards anti genocide protesters. 426 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 4: A lot of the other cases are still pending, but 427 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 4: it seems like the Trump administration is going to go 428 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 4: back and review all of them anyway. It does seem 429 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 4: like whether it's spread organically or whether it's some kind 430 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 4: of campaign to file Title six complaints. A lot of 431 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 4: Title six complaints were filed after October seventh, and during 432 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 4: this time when we saw like campus protests, when we 433 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 4: saw support by some faculty for those campus protests, right 434 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: and we saw some faculty who may or may not 435 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 4: have supported a protest but felt very strongly about the 436 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 4: right of students to have freedom of speech on campus. 437 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 4: And I'm sure they will have been kind of wrapped 438 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 4: up in this big drag net too. That this potentially 439 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 4: raises the specter of like at least career threatening and again, 440 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 4: lots of faculty are not US citizens, right. They might 441 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 4: be permanent residents, they might be married to citizens, they 442 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 4: might be here on a visa. There are a number 443 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 4: of different immigration status is that they could have that 444 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 4: are not US citizen that they could potentially lose. 445 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 2: So what is Trump trying to do about these cases 446 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: which could be pending or have already been resolved. 447 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, what they said is they want to familiarize 448 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 4: institutions with the grounds for inadmissibility so that that's not 449 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 4: allowing someone to enter the United States, right, and read 450 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 4: out the section of the United States Code action of 451 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 4: the United States Code quote so that such institutions may 452 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: monitor for and report activities by alien students and staff 453 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 4: relevant to those grounds, and for ensuring that such report 454 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 4: about aliens lead, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law, 455 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 4: to investigations and comma, if warranted, COMMA actions to remove 456 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 4: such aliens. So it's in there, right, Like this is 457 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 4: in Trump's late January executive order. Yeah, this is the 458 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 4: legal argument that they're making there, and they're asking universities 459 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 4: to do some of that legwork for them. It seems 460 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 4: I imagine that this is the same section of the 461 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: United States Code that we'll see used with reference to Kalil, 462 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 4: but it refers to like excludable or inadmissible aliens, which 463 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 4: is people coming into the country. But I guess they 464 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 4: could make an argument that like he disguised his inadmissible 465 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: status or became inadmissible. 466 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: Sure. I mean there's these two sections, right, There's this 467 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: one that revolves around who can be like admitted, who 468 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: can be accepted. That one section, which is a big 469 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 2: section one two, two seven, sub section A four A 470 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 2: dash C, which is the sections on deportation as relating 471 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 2: to like supporting quote unquote terrorist activities. So I think 472 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 2: they will try to use these both like in conjunction. 473 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 2: And I think it's also important to noteubt here the 474 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 2: use of the word like aliens as opposed to the 475 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: word that like Rubio was using previously, which is like visitors. Right, 476 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: Like visitors, I would say, probably applies more to like 477 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: student visa holders, yeah, non residents versus aliens. Aliens can 478 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 2: be anyone, right, like aliens can be can be visa holders, 479 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: can be Green card holders, right. And so at least 480 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: in like the official wording here, the use of the 481 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 2: word I think aliens is important as opposed to like 482 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 2: Rubio's like you know posts on x dot com. Yeah, 483 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: which now become official policy because we're in the hell world. 484 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 3: Yep. 485 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 2: That refers to like just like you know, visitors to 486 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: this country. 487 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, the right has used aliens for a long time, right, 488 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 4: because it differentiates them from people. 489 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's very basic like dehumanization like. 490 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 4: This, yeah, right, in this case, it's I think it's important. 491 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 4: It's pivotal, so like we have a sense of what 492 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 4: will happen there. And maybe I could just finish up 493 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 4: by saying if you are faculty or a student, if 494 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 4: you're encountering this, you can reach out to us using 495 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 4: our encrypted email. So if you'd like to reach out 496 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 4: to us, it's cool Zone tips at proton dot me. 497 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 4: It's only encrypted if it's encrypted from the sender as 498 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 4: well as a recipient, so that would mean using a 499 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 4: Proton or other encrypted email to reach out rather than 500 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 4: using an unencrypted email. 501 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: If you'd like to. 502 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 4: Reach out again, Cools on tips at proton dot me. 503 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 4: Obviously this is something we're going to continue taking an 504 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 4: interest in, and obviously it's something that we can't report 505 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 4: the entirety of now because we're still waiting on the 506 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: court case, but we are very interested in learning more 507 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: about it, so please feel free to reach out. 508 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 509 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: Well, and it's something that Trump is also saying. Yeah, 510 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: they will be taking a continue you'd interest in. He 511 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 2: is promising that this is the first arrest of quote 512 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: unquote many to come. So as they could do to 513 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 2: pocus on this, we will as well. James, did you 514 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: have anything else you wanted to say, like re lawyers. 515 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 4: Yes, So, as I mentioned before, right, people under by 516 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 4: administration have been moved away from their lawyers. 517 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: This is very common. 518 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 4: It seems that now people are being moved away from 519 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 4: their lawyers and having teleconference request denied. I let's say, Garrison, 520 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 4: you're a lawyer and you have a client attained to 521 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 4: San Diego. They moved to Texas, and now you can't 522 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 4: teleconference in for a ten minute hearing, so you would 523 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 4: have to fly right for that ten minute here. Yeah, 524 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 4: which is going to make it impossible both in time 525 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 4: terms of financial terms. What I'm understanding, I'm still digging 526 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 4: into this a little bit more, but that's what I'm hearing. 527 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 4: So this is going to be an ongoing thing. I 528 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 4: guess if you're an immigration lawyer one of the places 529 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 4: people are being sent to, like Texas, you can help. 530 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 4: But you probably already know that, and you're probably already 531 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 4: doing that, and you're probably already very very overworked. 532 00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: Do you work asylum? 533 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 4: So yeah, I think now is the time for groupsie 534 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 4: the ACLU to step up or shut up, and we'll see. 535 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: Well, in the ACOU has come out against Mahmood's arrest. 536 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: Okay, good. 537 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 3: The ADL, obviously totally foreign shocked to the ADL, an 538 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 3: organization formed to help avoid another Holocaust, does not see 539 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 3: any potential danger in a state redefining citizensship in order 540 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 3: to disappear its political enemies. So we love the ADL here, folks. 541 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 3: But the ACLU did, I mean, we'll see if they 542 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: do anything, but they did, like make a statement. 543 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been very good. I should say. The ACLU 544 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 4: has been pursuing a lot of litigation. It's Trump administration. 545 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: This is the sort of thing they're pretty consistently anti. Yes, yeah, 546 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 3: especially at a national level. They've been very good at this, 547 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 3: and so yeah, you know, shout out to them. 548 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: I guess, I. 549 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 3: Don't know, we don't need to shout it out. It's 550 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 3: their job. Yeah, they get millions of like this is 551 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 3: literally why why you're there? 552 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: Do a good job or else you'd better. 553 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 3: Do something else too, like yeah, you better show up. 554 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and no, don't donate to the ad L. 555 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 4: I guess if you were thinking of doing that after 556 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 4: listening to this podcast. 557 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 5: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 558 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 559 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 560 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 561 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 5: now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly 562 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 5: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.