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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren vogel Bum and today

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Speaker 1: we have an episode for you about zinfandel. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and it is a fun one. It's a dense one.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Lots of DNA genetic analysis involved. That's that's

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Speaker 1: always fun. Yeah, historical twists and turns. Um uh. And

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Speaker 1: as always with our alcohol episodes, drink responsibly. Yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: yes um. And we should say right off the bat

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Speaker 1: with this one. This is a sponsored episode, Yes, entirely

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Speaker 1: sponsored by the wine brand Saldo, who were kind enough

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Speaker 1: to send us a few of their wears to sample.

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Speaker 1: And they're heck and delicious um. And you are going

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Speaker 1: to hear a lot of ads from them for throughout

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Speaker 1: this episode. Yes you are, some some quizzes trivia always fun. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were delicious um. And it was nice to be

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Speaker 1: researching this and kind of have like, now now that

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Speaker 1: I know all of the history, I'm even more appreciative.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I'm really I'm really excited to get

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Speaker 1: into some different zinfandel like clonal varieties and see what

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Speaker 1: some of the differences are in the ways that winemakers

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Speaker 1: are using this grape. Um it is. It is just

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Speaker 1: wonderfully nerdy. Um one gets this one goes deep. It does,

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Speaker 1: it does, and I have a whole spiel about it later.

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Speaker 1: But oh my gosh, yeah yeah, and I and I

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Speaker 1: and I will say, like, like look like like low

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Speaker 1: key they are paying us to say this, but but

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Speaker 1: really like like they seem like such a great brand

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Speaker 1: to have sponsored this episode because they seem like really

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Speaker 1: good nerds too, and so that's just just exciting to

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Speaker 1: be working with with cool people. Yeah, it's nice when

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Speaker 1: it it meshes in that way. Um, and I will say,

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Speaker 1: I love a goods infandel, but it's definitely one that

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Speaker 1: I've long misunderstood and I have only fairly recently gotten into.

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Speaker 1: So I think that I'm happy to be doing this

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Speaker 1: one because I just had so many misunderstandings about what

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Speaker 1: z infandel was. And we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 1: reasons why that might be in the history section. But

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Speaker 1: it's just been really nice because I'm like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know I zimfandel could be this just so long

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Speaker 1: had the wrong are not even wrong, but like I

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Speaker 1: just didn't have a complete context of what Zimdell's were Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I had sort of the wrong impression of the

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Speaker 1: grape for a long time, and learning about stuff is cool.

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Speaker 1: Off it is and people are fans. Yes, oh my goodness. Yes. Uh. Also,

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Speaker 1: nationals Infindel Day is the third Wednesday of every November,

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Speaker 1: so that's coming up. We're kind of on on target

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Speaker 1: for that one, sure, yes, And you can see our

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Speaker 1: past one episodes. There have been many, including the one

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Speaker 1: we did on the French wine Blite, which we're not

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Speaker 1: going to talk too much about in this one, but

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Speaker 1: is always kind of hanging over these wine episodes, um,

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Speaker 1: and our New Orleans Drinks episode for a brief mention.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about that more in the history

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Speaker 1: bit as well, but we did talk about why some

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Speaker 1: of those misunderstandings of fandel where they came from. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting, right, um yeah, for more on that.

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Speaker 1: You can also see our Boxed Wine episode for a

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Speaker 1: short bit about white zinfandel, which I think definitely brings

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Speaker 1: us to our question. I agree, zinfandel. What is it? Well,

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Speaker 1: Zinfandel is the name of a wine grape and also

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Speaker 1: the name of a wine produced from those grapes. And

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of other grapes in there too,

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Speaker 1: but mostly zinfandel um. It's a deep red grape so

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Speaker 1: red its skin is almost black, and will generally be

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Speaker 1: used to produce a deep red wine that's often spicy

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Speaker 1: and and warming, um, but also fruity and and bright.

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Speaker 1: It's like a It's like sidling up to a warm

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Speaker 1: fire on a crisp fall afternoon, which is one of

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Speaker 1: my very favorite things right right. It can be a

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Speaker 1: lot of things though, um okay uh. Wine grapes and

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Speaker 1: most other grapes for that matter, are all part of

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Speaker 1: the species Vitis vinifera. Zinfandel is a variety of wine

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Speaker 1: grape that has evolved and been selected for over time.

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Speaker 1: The plant is a woody vine that will grow for

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Speaker 1: like a hundred plus years if you take care of it,

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Speaker 1: getting gnarlier um all the while. I saw one article

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Speaker 1: call it like tim Burton near yeah yeah um. And

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Speaker 1: they grow these a big five lobe leaves. Every spring,

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Speaker 1: they'll flower with big clusters of super tiny, frankly unimpressive

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Speaker 1: blooms um that if pollinated, each of those flowers can

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Speaker 1: develop into a single grape. The clusters are on the

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Speaker 1: medium to large side of often winged um with little

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Speaker 1: extra clusters of grapes and pretty compact um. The grapes

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Speaker 1: themselves are on the large side for wine grapes and

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Speaker 1: have thin skin that starts out green and we'll ripe

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Speaker 1: into yes this deep blue black. The grapes ripen relatively

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Speaker 1: early in the wine harvesting season and can be used

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Speaker 1: to make right just a bunch of different types of wine. Um.

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Speaker 1: You can harvest on the early side to produce what's

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Speaker 1: called whites infindel, which is often blood colored, or you

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Speaker 1: can harvest it later. I've seen a bunch of different

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Speaker 1: production methods. I'm not telling you what to do anyway.

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Speaker 1: Um Uh. You can harvest when they're mature to produce

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Speaker 1: a more typicals in fandel red and bold, or you

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Speaker 1: can wait until later in the season when the grapes

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Speaker 1: are overripe or even raisiny, and use that to create

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Speaker 1: a strong dessert wine similar to a ruby port. There

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Speaker 1: are lots of recognized clones. It was infandel Um. Clones

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Speaker 1: in wine refer to like a recognized sub variety that

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Speaker 1: growers have identified as having certain traits and that they'll

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Speaker 1: take cuttings of to graft. To other rootstocks in order

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Speaker 1: to produce a genetic clone of the original cutting. Nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with like clone wars, none of that. It's

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Speaker 1: just sorry. Oh no, now I've got a Star Wars

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Speaker 1: wine based Oh my gosh, parity that I'm planning. Okay, alright, perfect,

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Speaker 1: perfect episode only was my intention, you know, how to

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Speaker 1: get me pretty easily? Um, Cloning Uh, grape grape vines

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Speaker 1: is like easier and more reliable than growing wine grapes

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Speaker 1: from seed. It takes seeds a few years to grow

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Speaker 1: vines of sufficient um size and hardiness to to get

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Speaker 1: a really good crop of grapes. Um and clones are

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Speaker 1: generally identified by number um, either by like the number

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Speaker 1: in which they were um they were researched and published about,

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Speaker 1: or just like any number that somebody wanted to apply

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Speaker 1: to them. Going back to Star Wars, I think that

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Speaker 1: oh maybe it was like a petite Sarah that's like

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Speaker 1: a seven seventy seven, and that that's a reference to

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Speaker 1: attack the clones anyway, Nerd nerds stuff, nerd stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a note on that. I'm saying it

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Speaker 1: from memory and probably misquoting, but but at any rate, um, yes,

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Speaker 1: uh of course or the characteristics of any finished wine

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Speaker 1: depend on a lot of different factors. Um the exact

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Speaker 1: uh microclimate that it was grown in and the growing

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Speaker 1: season that it endured, UM, and the way that the

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Speaker 1: plant was pruned, and the way that it was harvested,

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Speaker 1: and when it was harvested, and how it was treated

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Speaker 1: after harvest, and how it was treated during the bottling

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Speaker 1: and fermentation process. All of this different stuff. But that

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Speaker 1: being said, um, there are a few like tendencies of

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Speaker 1: the zinfandel grape. Uh. First, due to the shape of

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Speaker 1: those clusters, the grapes tend to ripen unevenly in in

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Speaker 1: any given cluster um, meaning that when you take the

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Speaker 1: bunch from the vine, there's going to be some that

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Speaker 1: are underripe, some that are perfect, and some that are overripe.

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Speaker 1: And that means that um, any given zinfandel usually has

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Speaker 1: like uh uh a broader breadth of of distinct flavors

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Speaker 1: in there. Like a lot of young wines taste young,

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Speaker 1: a lot of older wines taste old, but this one

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Speaker 1: has a little bit of everything. Yeah. Um. They tend

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Speaker 1: to be a bit high in alcohol um, and the

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Speaker 1: burn from that can be pretty forward or it can

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Speaker 1: be produced to taste more fruit forward one or the other. UM.

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Speaker 1: And the general flavors include um like red berries and

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Speaker 1: or cherries, jam, a little bit of smoke, and spices

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Speaker 1: like black pepper. Yeah, in the United States, all wine

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Speaker 1: that is labeled infidel maybe up to twenty content from

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Speaker 1: other grapes um. And speaking of things that you might

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Speaker 1: see on wine labels, if you've heard of old vine zinfandel,

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Speaker 1: that is mostly a marketing term because it's not like

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Speaker 1: a regulated status here in the US. But generally old

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Speaker 1: vine fers to a wine made from grapes grown on

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Speaker 1: vines that are old enough to have like peeked and

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Speaker 1: then plateaued in terms of fruit production, which happens maybe

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Speaker 1: about like fifty years into the vines lifespan. And the

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Speaker 1: fruit from old vines is sometimes prized because, um, those

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Speaker 1: vines like aren't spreading their resources across so many grapes

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Speaker 1: anymore as they were when they're they're grape production peaked. UM,

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Speaker 1: so the flavor in the grapes can be more concentrated. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's funny you say that. I'm glad you say that,

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Speaker 1: because again, I was kind of a novice in the

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Speaker 1: zi infandel world and I saw this old vines infandel

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Speaker 1: and I was like, why is Why have I never

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Speaker 1: heard of this before? Who on earth does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Are these other vines infants? What's happening? Learning something new

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Speaker 1: every day? Um? Well, what about the nutrition? Drink responsibly?

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Speaker 1: M Well, we do have some numbers for you, and

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Speaker 1: I want to start with this because there's a zymposium.

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Speaker 1: I guess I love. I love all of the puns

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Speaker 1: around sinfandel. There's so many of them. Um uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but right from from what I can tell, the zymposium

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Speaker 1: is part of the annual Passa Robles Zinfandel weekend every March.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, listeners again please and let us know. Yes,

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Speaker 1: as of there were fifty tho acres planted with sim

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Speaker 1: fandel grapes in California and these range across some forty

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Speaker 1: counties there, which lie in all five of California's like

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Speaker 1: climatic wine growing regions, which is so cool. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: as of adela was the fourth leading wine grape and

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Speaker 1: it came to acreage in California and of the world,

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Speaker 1: zinfandel is grown in California. UM. Every year, around three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand tons of zinfandel grapes are crushed there and

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Speaker 1: that's like on a bad year. Since three hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: tons has been on the low end of crushage, UM,

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Speaker 1: tons crushed more than doubled in the decade from this

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Speaker 1: crushage of Lauren Vogel bomb original? Is that a real turm? Um?

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Speaker 1: I it might be, it might be a mean thing,

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Speaker 1: or I might have read it somewhere. You never really

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Speaker 1: know with vocabulary. It's true. Well, I like it nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: and I do. This association with zinfandel and California is

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Speaker 1: incredibly strong and people are very passionate about it, um,

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Speaker 1: and that means that we have a lot in the

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Speaker 1: history section for you. We do, UM. But first we've

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Speaker 1: got a quick break for a word from our sponsor

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I think we've said it several times, but grapes

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Speaker 1: separate episode. Oh yeah, we do not have time to

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Speaker 1: do the history of grapes today, not today, and I

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Speaker 1: think we're going to have to split that one up

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Speaker 1: in multiple episode. Yes. Also, just a shout out to you,

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Speaker 1: see Davis out of California. Thank you, UM. You overwhelmed

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Speaker 1: me with your information. But I appreciate it, I respect

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Speaker 1: it and thank you. Yeah. Yeah, they have published a

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Speaker 1: bunch of really really really thorough information about the history

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Speaker 1: of was Infidel, and right, it's wonderful, but also like

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Speaker 1: academic and if you're a layman like we are, I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, no, yeah, okay, there was like every

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Speaker 1: other paragraph. I was like, well, I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I have time to go into the history of whatever

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Speaker 1: this term is that they're just using as if I

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Speaker 1: should know what it is, right, which is no slight

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Speaker 1: to them because it was for people who are in

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Speaker 1: that in the industry have been forever. So like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: just thank you. But I was like reading it getting

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Speaker 1: increasingly like that like sweat, the kind of sweat emojig bigger.

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Speaker 1: But I did love it because you could feel the

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Speaker 1: passion in it. You could feel that people just care

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Speaker 1: about this so much. But all right, let's dive into

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Speaker 1: all of this information we have about the Zimpidel. Alright,

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Speaker 1: So the ancestors of the Zifidel grape trace back to

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Speaker 1: six AUS and BC, but our modern understanding of the

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Speaker 1: scrape are are more modern. History of them is fairly

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Speaker 1: recent by the nineteenth century, grape growers were producing a

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Speaker 1: grape called the zimpandel or a word close to that

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Speaker 1: in a couple different places. But yes, continue, Yes, because

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Speaker 1: of the wines current close association with California, a lot

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Speaker 1: of research, yes, has been done into how the grape

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Speaker 1: made its way into that state. But we still aren't

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Speaker 1: entirely sure of the details. And I say we, I

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Speaker 1: didn't really have much to do with the research, but

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Speaker 1: our general understanding of we but here is what we

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Speaker 1: do know or suspect the Zimpadel grape was probably being

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Speaker 1: grown for wine in California by the eighteen fifties. Um,

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Speaker 1: there is no record of a grape by that name

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Speaker 1: being grown in Europe at the time. In the history

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Speaker 1: of the name itself, yeah, it's caused a lot of

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Speaker 1: confusion and consternation. It has historically been spelled all kinds

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Speaker 1: of ways. It's been called all kinds of things, which

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about more in a second. Um.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, yeah, that that causes some confusion when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to look into the history of something. Researchers think

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Speaker 1: the most logical explanation for how the grape got to

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Speaker 1: California has to do with an amateur horticulturalist uh named

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Speaker 1: George Gibbs, who might have gotten the grapes and ravines

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Speaker 1: from Vienna's Imperial nursery and taken them with him or

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Speaker 1: got them shipped maybe to him to the US in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen twenties, and records do show that by the

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Speaker 1: eighteen twenties and thirties, Infidel's being grown as a table

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Speaker 1: grape in hot houses on the East coast of the

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Speaker 1: United States. In William Robert Prince's eighteen thirty work A

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Speaker 1: Treatise on the Vine, he includes what he called black

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Speaker 1: Zimfandel of Hungary and Hungry. Here was probably referring to

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Speaker 1: what is now modern day Croatia in his list of

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Speaker 1: grapes recently introduced to the US from other countries. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Important to note here that that the Austrian Empire encompassed

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Speaker 1: what's now also Hungary and Croatia. Sure, yes, and this

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Speaker 1: theory gained some tractions somewhat recently after a genetic discovery.

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Speaker 1: We promised genetic discoveries. Yes, uh so. Some of the

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Speaker 1: confusion around Infidel also stems from the fact that two

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Speaker 1: other clonal varieties have evolved into other countries over time

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Speaker 1: alien Croatia that we know of UM. A DNA analysis

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Speaker 1: published in two thousand three revealed that the California zimfandel,

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Speaker 1: the Italian primativo, and the creation Tribute drug and I

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Speaker 1: hope I didn't butcher that UM all have the same

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Speaker 1: DNA profile, and notably, both the Italian and Croatian name

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Speaker 1: for this grape likely refers to like early ripening UM.

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Speaker 1: But that's the etymology of this is so complicated, so

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Speaker 1: we can't go too deep into it. Yeah. Yes, what

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Speaker 1: is now Croatia was a part of the Australia Empire

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Speaker 1: at the time, so when Gibbs would have been collecting

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Speaker 1: this grape to transport it to America, he very likely

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Speaker 1: would have gotten it from what is now Croatia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and some of the kicks started this whole interest in

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Speaker 1: doing the genetic analysis in the first place was the

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Speaker 1: discovery of ancient zim fidel vines in Croatia, which were

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Speaker 1: also going to talk about more. Yes, yes, but zimfidel

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Speaker 1: probably arrived with those traveling to California in the eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifties for the California gold Rush. Shipping records show that

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Speaker 1: a lot of zim fandel was sent to the state

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Speaker 1: in the fifties eighteen fifties. But again this is sort

279
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Speaker 1: of complicated because so many different names were used. Um.

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Speaker 1: And for a while, it was pretty much accepted that

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Speaker 1: Colonel Augustine Harasti introduced zim fidel to California after returning

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Speaker 1: from Europe in eighteen sixty one, and this was a

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Speaker 1: trip he went on specifically to investigate European wine cultivars,

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Speaker 1: but upon doing some digging, researchers didn't find zim fandel

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Speaker 1: listed as one of the varieties he returned with. And

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Speaker 1: on top of that, another viticulturist from the time wrote

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Speaker 1: that the grape was present in California much earlier than that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very fun to see all these researchers like, no, no,

289
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Speaker 1: I've looked into this. It's really great, honestly. Um. Whatever

290
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Speaker 1: the case, by the eighteen sixties, Sonoma and Napa in

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Speaker 1: California had significant vineyards of zinfandel, and the grape was

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Speaker 1: making a name for itself in wine, especially in that state.

293
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Speaker 1: The success of the grape opened the door for other

294
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Speaker 1: non French wine grapes in that region too, because at

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Speaker 1: the time everybody was trying to like copy what French

296
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Speaker 1: wine was doing. But because this one was successful and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really like French wine, I was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we could try other things too, maybe other things could

299
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,719
Speaker 1: work as well. As early as eighteen seventy nine, professionals

300
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Speaker 1: of all types were writing about the grape um and

301
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Speaker 1: how it was suited for California, which was a big

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Speaker 1: deal for the burgeoning wine industry. There um a lot

303
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: of people were looking into how they could compete on

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Speaker 1: the world stage. In terms of California competing on this

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Speaker 1: wine world stage and specifically going toe to toe with France.

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Speaker 1: Um organized nations to evaluate wine in California were created,

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00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 1: experiments where done papers were written. A paper written after

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Speaker 1: one of these experiments suggested that wines made of a

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Speaker 1: single variety of z infandel grape were inferior, and that

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Speaker 1: blends were recommended and all these things, Like I'm convincing

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Speaker 1: so much, because again there is so so much UM,

312
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: but that's like a whole paper you can read about

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Speaker 1: just this one experiment. It's fascinating, it really, honestly is.

314
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Speaker 1: So if you have any interest, recommend Um by fours

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00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: Infandel accounted for an estimated half of wine grape plantings

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Speaker 1: in California, and it was so well known there that

317
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Speaker 1: someone studying the grape at the time wrote, the variety

318
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: is too well known in California to require any remarks

319
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Speaker 1: on its general character. If we did an episode that

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Speaker 1: that's just what we said. It's too well known. I

321
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Speaker 1: don't have to say anything else. By seven, these grapes

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00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: were going for about fourteen to sixteen dollars per ton,

323
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Speaker 1: and that's about half of what well known and respected

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Speaker 1: French grapes were going forward. So it was like on

325
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: the rise. I guess. Charles Wetmore, sometimes called the father

326
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Speaker 1: of the California wine industry, once wrote, although Hungarian zifidel

327
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: is more known now in America than in Europe, and

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Speaker 1: it is the beginning of a new type of which

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00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: we may be proud. He also wrote in eighty four

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Speaker 1: that it should be classified as a white wine grape, foreshadowing, Yes,

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Speaker 1: um it's popularity and it's known hardiness in California ensured

332
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Speaker 1: that it was one of the first grapes regrafted onto

333
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: new rootstock when the French wine blight did hit that state. Yes,

334
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Speaker 1: and I guess, speaking of Um, I don't know. Maybe,

335
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 1: but anyway, Prohibition was obviously not good for zim fandel

336
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: in the United States and almost led to it completely

337
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: going extinct. Um. It didn't really start to recover in

338
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: the US until the nineteen seventies. Yeah. Uh, wine in

339
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 1: general took a took a huge hit during Prohibition. Um.

340
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: Perhaps obviously zim fandel seems to have survived specifically because

341
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: it is so well suited to California climate that homebrewers

342
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: could make decent jug wine from it, like without access

343
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: to the usual winemaking equipment. Mm hmmmm um. And kind

344
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: of stepping back a bit, there's a lot of threads

345
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: in this story. But the University of California Viticultural Department

346
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: chair named the zim fandel the most planted and most

347
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: well known grape in California in and he recommended that

348
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: vineyards in northern California planted as well. And again, it

349
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: was the subject of just so many academic papers and

350
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: recommendations about how to get the most money given the

351
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: acreage required to grow the grape. Just so many things

352
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: like here's the best way to go about it? Um.

353
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: And clonal research really took off in the nineteen seventies.

354
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: But okay, let's look at Italy's premativo great for a second. Okay,

355
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: So around the eighteen sixties or somewhere in there, somewhere

356
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: around the same time, the zimpadel grape was really taking

357
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: hold of California's wine industry. UM. Italy was using a

358
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: grape called premativo grown in a similar climate as California

359
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: at first, largely to fortify red wine. So it's sort

360
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: of a supplementary grape almost UM. Just as people have

361
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: tried to get to the bottom of how the scrape

362
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: ended up in California, the same is true for Italy.

363
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: Some speculate that it arrived from Croatia via the Adriatic

364
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: Sea and the eighteenth century, though I did see one

365
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: day that was far earlier than that. UM. One of

366
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: the reasons this is a popular theory is that legend

367
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: has it the grape was originally named after the creation

368
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: port it arrived from in Italy. Again, the etymology of

369
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: this one is very complicated, but that is one theory. Yeah.

370
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: The first known instance of this grape in the written

371
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: record is from sevent in Italy. Uh, there's kind of

372
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: a humorous story or I found it humorous of a U. S.

373
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Speaker 1: D A plant pathologist Dr Austin go Keene visiting Italy

374
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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties tasting some wine made with the

375
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: prematival grape and thinking to himself, huh, tastes like simpandel.

376
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: He took some samples of the grape back to the US,

377
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: planted them next to simpandel, and a nine genetic analysis, yes,

378
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: more DNA stuff confirmed what he suspected that they share

379
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: a DNA profile. Um of note, there are varietal differences,

380
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: but very very very similar. Yeah, yeah, clonal differences. That

381
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: is right there, they're the same variety. They just write

382
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: they are genetically the same thing. Um. But but yeah,

383
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: clonal varieties can have a little bit of of variance

384
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: in there. Sure, and how present which again, if you

385
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: want to know more about you see, Davis has got

386
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: your back. They had a whole breakdown of it. They

387
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: really do. Um. And there has been a lot of

388
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: back and forth about labeling around zinfandel and primativo over

389
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: the years. In the beer of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms

390
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: declared that the names could not be used interchangeably on labels. However,

391
00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: when presented with DNA evidence, which I love for us

392
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: in the nineties, and then in the early two thousands

393
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: they revised their decision in they followed the e Use

394
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: example and ruled that the names could be used synonymously. UM.

395
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: And then they had you know, their call for comments.

396
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about this decision? You know? Oh,

397
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: and people had comments. They have comments, um, mostly Californians

398
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: and others in the Americans infandel business, and one way

399
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: or another worried that this would adversely impact the California

400
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: wine industry, mostly because of confusion. Uh or that's that's

401
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: what they said, that they thought it would confuse people. UM.

402
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: So taking this into account, the ruling was postponed and

403
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: definitely and as of the names cannot be used interchangeably

404
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: in the US. Well, if anyone has further information, please

405
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: let us have no cool it is And speaking of cool, meanwhile,

406
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: interest in the grapes history in Croatia really took off

407
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: in the ninety nineties, though plenty have been looking into

408
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: it before then. UM researchers at the University of Zagreb,

409
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: Croatia joined forces with a cohort in California to dig

410
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: into the grape's potential Croatian roots. The country has a

411
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: long wine history that goes back to at least two

412
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: thousand two b c e UM. The Croatian scientist sent

413
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: sample grapes and vines to California for DNA testing, eventually

414
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: leading to the genetic analysis that confirmed ancient vines and

415
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 1: Croatia matched the DNA profile of California's zinfandel. Further research

416
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: revealed that to grace with different names in Croatia were

417
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: also the same, so that leads that also was causing

418
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: some confusion. Um. But there's a lot written up about this,

419
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: and it's really really cool, and it kind of took

420
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: a while of sending grapes back in fourth and doing

421
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: these tests before they arrived at this conclusion. So I

422
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it that all all three of these of

423
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: these these Croatian, Italian, and Californian grapes are the heck

424
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: in same grape. Yeah, um, but just different clonal varieties. UM.

425
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: And there has been there have been other historical notes

426
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: that have gotten attached to all of this. UM. For example,

427
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: one of these Croatian varieties was listed on this Austrian

428
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: farming map from eighteen sixty three that was laying out

429
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: different wine grapes grown around the region um, which right

430
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: strengthens the hypothesis that this grape was common there and

431
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: already to be transported to the US UM by at

432
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: least that time, that time or earlier. Mm hmm yeah, okay,

433
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: So well, all of this, and I'm making a big

434
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: all of what we've been talking about was going on

435
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: in the US and abroad. Another major shifting her understanding

436
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: of zimfandel occurred the introduction of white zinfandel. Yes, yes,

437
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: oh oh my, okay, So all of this research was

438
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: going on around in infandel in the seventies that indirectly

439
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: catapulted the cousin of zim fandel white zimfandel to fame

440
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties. And yes, our interviewee and

441
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: that New Orleans episode we mentioned at the top, Chris

442
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: Warner shared his opinion that Sutter Homes white Zimfandel was

443
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: sort of a gateway wine for a lot of people

444
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: in the United States. It was a very funny tidbit

445
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: I liked. So. According to some sources, Sutter Homes white

446
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: Zimfandel was an accident that they created in nineteen seventy two.

447
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: The company's winemaker allegedly used runoff from their Zimfandel wines

448
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: to make white Zimfandel, and for whatever reason one time

449
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: the wine didn't fully ferment and it resulted in a

450
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: low alcohol sugary wine as disgusted the dark times. In

451
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: our opinion, I guess you could fight with us about that.

452
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: Of the sugree eighties meant that the product was very

453
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: happily embraced and it's skyrocketed to popularity. However, um, the

454
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: first known instance of a blush wine Zimpadel dates back

455
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: to eight sixty nine, So I guess this is probably

456
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: when it just really took hold public. Yeah, this was

457
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: the modern coming of the blush zinfandel. Yes, and it

458
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: did paint the public perception of Zimpandel's as a Swedish blush,

459
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: low alcohol wine kind of basic was the vibe, I god,

460
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: and so the reputation was part. And when I was

461
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: saying at the beginning that I didn't understand, I thought

462
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: it Zimfidel was this yeah for a long time. Yeah, um,

463
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: and it really gained this this perception of being um

464
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: a uh, low cost and low quality why um, And

465
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: this is why other grapes like mare Low and Cabernet

466
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: sort of took over for red wine production in California

467
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: in the nineties and early two thousand's. Yes, but there

468
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: were still people in California that were passionate about looking

469
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: into zimfandel UH, and a lot of research went into

470
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: varietals in California and the nineties. You can yes, find

471
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 1: exhaustive detail if you watch Yeah very much in brief. UM.

472
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: The nineties is when the American trade group Zinfandel Advocates

473
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: and Producers formed in two to be exact and UH.

474
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: Every year to this day, they sponsor AI's in Findel

475
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: centric wine and food festival in January called zin X,

476
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: and in they started up a project with you See

477
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: Davis called the Heritage Vineyard Project UM. Its purpose being

478
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: to take cuttings from old vines in Findel around California

479
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: and select strong ones UM to propagate and make available

480
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: to growers. UM. They say it's currently like twenty years

481
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: into a hundred year effort to preserve the variety and

482
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: let it thrive and replace old vines that won't last forever.

483
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And all of this is part of

484
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: what we've talked about before of California's in America's at

485
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: large wine industry looking for some recognition, um, looking for

486
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: some respects and financial success of course, in a world yeah,

487
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean yes, in the world that for so long

488
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: has valued European wine above all, like that's that's the best,

489
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: that's what you want. And this is something that that

490
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: did see a real shift in the two thousands. It

491
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: was a real perspective shift in the two thousands of

492
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: what California wine, American wine could be in that it

493
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: could compete. Um. But it's always it's been there, people

494
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: have been working in it. People are passionate about it.

495
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: I just don't want to I can't stress enough that

496
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: people I love this and they've been looking into it,

497
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: and they've been working at it, and I don't want

498
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 1: to erase all of the stuff they've been doing because

499
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: right now, yeah, we're seeing a resurgence of it. But

500
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 1: people have been in this, oh yeah, forever, forever, since

501
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: since those first like gold Rush vines arrived in California,

502
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: people have been really deep into it. And that's beautiful.

503
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: It is. It is, and we appreciate it personally on

504
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: a podcast researcher level, but also on a wine drinker level. Yeah,

505
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: oh both, yeah, sure, absolutely, so this was it was

506
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: a really delightful one to look into. Um, and there's

507
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: so many offshoots we could further research, but oh yeah,

508
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: many potential future episodes or little side quests or whatever

509
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: it is that it is. Yeah, yes, yes, But in

510
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: the meantime, I think that's what we have to say

511
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 1: about Zinfandel for now. It is. We do have some

512
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: listener mail for you, though, but first we've got one

513
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: more quick break for a word from our sponsor. And

514
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. And we're

515
00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: back with m sitting next to the fire. Yeah, and

516
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: it's so cold, which it is quite cold. Oh yeah,

517
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: we just had the weather turn like this morning and

518
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I should have brought my plants in. Heck, okay,

519
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: that's right. I've been meaning to ask you about your plants,

520
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: which I know it was a weird thing to say,

521
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: but I do worry the plants. Um. They're currently hanging

522
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: out at my neighbor's house, um, where I moved, so

523
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm not in my permanent new house yet. I'm standing

524
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: in Airbnb for a couple of months, which is really exciting.

525
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: But I moved them to a neighbor's house before I

526
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: moved in here, and that is where they are. So

527
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 1: I guess I have to go make several trips across

528
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: the street after I do this recording. Yes, let us

529
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: know how they are. Tell them why oh oh I will,

530
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't seen him in like two weeks.

531
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I don't even know. Well, you've

532
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: got to keep this updated, that I really do. I

533
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder how her wrong? The auto they've

534
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: been they've been watering them for us. I I thank

535
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: you so much, dear neighbors for taking care of my

536
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: plants in this trying time. It's very very kind. Thank you.

537
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: You don't know me, probably not listening, but my thoughts

538
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: are very thankful towards you as well. Heck, okay so,

539
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: and then continuing messages we've gotten about Dill, which is

540
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: so great. We have two more today, Hannah wrote, just

541
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: finished listening to the Dill episode, and since still is

542
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: arguably my number one favorite HERB, I had to write in.

543
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed hearing about the veried, witchy history of Dill.

544
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: It made me especially excited for the little row of

545
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: fall dill seedlings. That is popping up in one of

546
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: my garden beds, as well as the volunteer dill lets

547
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: springing up from under the springs patch. Aside from the

548
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: obvious intellectable vegetable pairings cute comber tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, beats,

549
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: dill goes great with just about any veggie in my book,

550
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: I have a couple other favorite places for that burst

551
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: of dill flavor. First, scrambled eggs. Of course I enjoy

552
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: a plain scramble or a cheesy one, or even one

553
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 1: with another herb or two. But if I am making

554
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: scrambled eggs and don't have a bit of fresh dill around,

555
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: I am always just a little sad that these scrambled

556
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: eggs won't be quite as good as they could have been.

557
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: And secondly, popcorn. I know it's not one I've seen

558
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: anywhere except well my house and the place I learned

559
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: it from. When I was growing up, a family friend

560
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: would often make a big batch of popcorn for parties

561
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: at her house. But instead of your classic toppings, she

562
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: made it with butter, obviously, lemon, pepper, dill, a touch

563
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: of human a little goes a long way, and parmesan.

564
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: This is now the only way I make popcorn. I

565
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: don't always include the parmesan, but the first three ingredients

566
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: are essential. Lemon pepper. I use one with salt for

567
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: salt tang, and heat dil for a touch of aromatic sweetness,

568
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: and cuman for that bit of earthy funk. It wakes

569
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: up the whole palette and I can't get enough. I

570
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: hope you will give it a try. Yes, yes, oh.

571
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: I responded to this email, and I was like, I'm

572
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: in full blown horror movie season. This sounds perfect. I

573
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: got popcorn, needs my deal in there and all that.

574
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: This sounds so good to me. That does sound so

575
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: good that I don't know. I've never thought about putting

576
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: lemon pepper on popcorn. I know, I know, I'm ashamed

577
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: of us, Lauren, right, I'm kind of like, we're from

578
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: Atlanta living. What kind of at aliens? Are we? Not?

579
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: The good kind? I guess? And I love popcorn and

580
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: I write what is going on with me? And I

581
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: put human on everything? How have I never put that

582
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: on popcorn either? Anyway? Awesome? Multiple people wrote in about

583
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: the eggs still in eggs okay, h m hmm. Bart wrote,

584
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: I now absolutely adore dill and buy fresh dill at

585
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: every opportunity, at every time of the year, and use

586
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: it in cold dishes, hot dishes, mayrinaides, you name it,

587
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: but I remember exactly when I decided I want to

588
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: try it. It's when Captain Kirk is making breakfast for

589
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: his girlfriend in Star Trek Generations and he shouts to

590
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: Captain Picard for dill while he's making the eggs. I

591
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: made my mom put dill on the shopping list there,

592
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: and then added it to my eggs the next weekend

593
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: and fell in love. I still use fresh dill in fritatos,

594
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: but in summer. My favorite used for dill is in

595
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: fennel slaw, cole slap, potato salad, or salmon salad. I

596
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: use it to marinade whitefish all year round. It gives

597
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: such a lovely freshness with some lemon, garlic and olive oil.

598
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: In winter, I love using it in roast vegetable dishes.

599
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: It goes really well with roasted cauliflower, red onions, and

600
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: bromley apples. Bromley apples I don't know anyway, uh And

601
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: similarly with a roasted fennel with shallots and those same apples.

602
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: I think my favorite dill roasted vegetable dish is roasted

603
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: baby cucumbers with shallots, white wine, vinegar, and dill. For

604
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: all the roasted vegetable dishes, the fresh dill goes in

605
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: at the very end, after the food is out of

606
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: the oven. Just fold it in and give it a

607
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: minute to wilt, and it's ready to serve. But I

608
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: think my most unusual use for dill is in sugar

609
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: free apple sauce, core and peel a nice tart cooking

610
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: apple like that, heck and whatever variety that was. Um

611
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 1: cut it into segments, season with salt and black pepper,

612
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: and then roast in a medium oven until it goes

613
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: to mush. Then take it out of the oven and

614
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: mix in an ungodly amount of fresh dill and serve.

615
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: The salt will enhance the natural sugars and the apples,

616
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: and the dill will make the whole thing wonderfully fresh.

617
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: Go super with some grilled chicken or turkey, some nice

618
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: Herby sausages, or some great black pudding. My mouth is watering, watering,

619
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: literally every single one of those things. Gosh, and I

620
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: my heart is very full and warm that you were like,

621
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: I got up, But dil in my eggs after watching

622
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: starting because of Captain Kirk. Thank you Captain Kirk for

623
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: introducing me to dil, which I now use in literally everything.

624
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. That's so cool. I love this, it's all great.

625
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: I want to try all of these things. I'm just

626
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: gonna put dill and like everything from now on, I'm

627
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: getting huh, I'll try it. Why not? Why not? Your

628
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: listeners continue to inspire is. Thank you so much for writing.

629
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can

630
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: our emails hello at saber pod dot com. We're also

631
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

632
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to

633
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: hear from you. Sabor is production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our

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Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

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Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

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Speaker 1: your way