WEBVTT - Week in Tech: Does 'Workslop' Affect Your Workplace? 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.400 From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech Stuff. I'm 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.119 as Volocian and I'm Cara Price. Today we're going to 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.079 get into the headlines this week, including an anti tech 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.000 rally in New York City and a look at how 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.040 workslop is affecting the workplace. Then, on Chat to Me. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.640 I had students take personality tests in Spanish and then 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:39.200 used AI to turn their personality data into unique paintings. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:47.080 All of that on the Weekend Tech. It's Friday, October third, Hello, Cara, hi. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:47.600 As. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.920 One of the great pleasures of recording this podcast with 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.120 you is getting to hear you chew ice right next 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.520 to the microphone before we start. I hope your mouth 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:58.560 is nice and cool. 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.560 I'm actually number I'm like talking like I just got 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:03.160 a tongue pier. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:04.960 My ears are numb as well. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.399 Well. Speaking of being in the studio together, it's your 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.039 turn in the hot seat now to make fun. Are 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:14.840 you even wearing shoes today? Oh? 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.560 It's a deep cut. I actually am right now, but 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.839 you obviously noticed that I do have an unconscious habit 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.319 of slipping them off. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.000 I do, and it's disgusting. 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.120 It is well, I consciously try and keep them on. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.240 In fact, but I did get in trouble. I think 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.800 I probably told you the story many years ago when 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.920 I was a consultant working on the Google account. I 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.039 once unconsciously slipped them off in the Google office and 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:44.120 was padding around Google's actually off, and my boss took 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.400 me his side and said, listen, I was, You're a 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.280 great guy, but if you ever take your shoes off 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.720 and a fine meeting again, you're fired, which is totally 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:52.280 fair enough. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:53.720 It's such a power booth. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.960 It was. I was so I whacked out that I 0:01:58.600 --> 0:01:59.760 was not even aware of it. 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:01.800 You had six hundred coffees probably. 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.880 By then, exactly. But that's why I was particularly delighted 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.440 to be ahead of the curve on this. It's now 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.840 the norm in Silicon Valley, apparently, according to the Fortune 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:14.240 article you share to shame me in our full producers 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.800 and host Slack channel with the headline the hottest workplace 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.600 policy at startups right now no shoes So I'm curious, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.760 kra how would you feel if we had a shoes 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:25.480 off policy at Cardoscope. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.399 The thing is is that I am so obsessed with 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.799 dumbing down the workplace to make workaholism. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.600 Feel comfortable exactly, and that's exactly what this policy is 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.440 all about, exactly. So that's interesting. There was actually a 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.640 picture on the on the Fortune article of a shoe rack. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.200 You see that It was like a Japanese restaurant. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.440 Yeah, it looks like somewhere between a Japanese restaurant and 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.560 a high school, right. I mean, it's like the locker 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.240 full of like dirty trainers. I mean, it's really the 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.080 aesthetics of the new Silicon Vallee. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.600 Weird, but it's a sort of sinister trojan horse in 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.160 the way that you know they used to. I mean, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:01.919 I was just reading in the article all of these 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.440 ways that companies make offices more appealing, and I think 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.519 going in and being like, you know what, I'm walking 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.720 right back into my apartment to go to work is like. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.240 Gotcha free haircuts, but shoes off. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:14.799 That's right. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.160 Well, I'm obviously obsessed by the workplace, sadly, so I 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.679 couldn't resist this story in the Harvard Business Review, which 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.280 went around the internet and had the headline AI generated 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.240 work slop is destroying productivity. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.560 When was the last time you heard the word slop? 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.880 I hear the word slop all the time now, Yeah. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.520 It's weird. It's like AI has brought slop back into 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.560 the conversation when it was never that, Like slop was 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:41.080 not a thing. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.600 You're so right that the twenty twenty six word of 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.840 the year is slop. I do agree. I think I 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.160 first I first started hearing at the beginning of this 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.400 year AI slop, AI slop a stop, And now it's 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.800 like everywhere so work slop. Well, guess what it is. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.640 The bottom of the barrel. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.960 Was AI generated crap that looks a little bit like 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.440 real work. And I was pretty interested in this because 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.480 I am not only the host of text stuff with 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.440 you you are, I'm also the co founder of a 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.200 podcast network called Kaleidoscope, which is the network that produces 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.560 this podcast, and in my CEO hat, obviously in response 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.920 to investors and culture and whatever else, I'm always encouraging 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.520 our team. So how can we use AI? How can 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.000 we be part of the air evolution? How can we 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.320 not be left behind? On the other hand, when people 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.599 send me work there's clearly been made my AI, I'm 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.280 absolutely furious, Which is I think the paradox at the 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.360 heart of this. Harv a business review study which found 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.200 the following quote Approximately half of the people we surveyed 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.400 viewed colleagues who sent WORKSLOP as less creative, less capable, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.800 and less reliable than they did before receiving the output. 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.159 Forty two percent saw them as less trustworthy, and thirty 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.560 seven percent thought that the colleague was less intelligent afterwards. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.680 But if you're already sort of not in love with 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.680 your CAR colleagues, now there's a new reason to think 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.000 that your colleagues are slacking off. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.239 Essentially, Yeah, I mean it's interesting, right. Not all AI 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:14.640 assisted work is slop. Obviously is work slot, but there's 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.400 also the sort of lazy thing where you say, oh, well, 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.880 let me have AI generated the report and not think. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.040 And I think that's what this article is really about. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.440 I looked at this article too. There's this idea of 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.160 like the distinction between a pilot and a passenger. I 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.120 can't exactly wrap my head around that. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.080 Well, what do you imagine it is? 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.480 Well, a pilot flies the plane. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:36.960 Yeah, what does the passenger do? 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.599 Rides the plane? 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:40.960 The plane sits in the back. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:42.760 Are you a pilot or a passenger? 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.880 I'm not as much as a pilot as I would 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.360 like to be with AI, honestly, but the distinction they're 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.320 making is pilots are people who actually take these new 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.520 genera AI tools and harness them to do better work, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.720 and passengers are people who use them either because their 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.680 boss has told them to or because they're trying to 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.640 short at doing their work. So essentially, you know, passengers 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.840 churn out AI slop, and pilots, at least according to 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.040 this study, use AI to be better workers. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.760 This actually reminds me of one of my recent favorite 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.839 party term drops, which is cognitive offloading, which you know, 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.160 is when we offload critical thinking to generative AI and 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.159 just how much that puts the person who's using AI 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.880 at a deficit. And I think that slop, I guess, 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.680 is a product of cognitive offloading. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.599 It is, and interestingly, not just cognitive offloading on behalf 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.159 of the employee, but also in many cases cognitive offloading 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.160 on behalf of the boss. And a lot of these 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.120 mandates whereas you're basically you have to use AI or 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:47.240 use AI the persons I will, okay, but if you 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.839 don't set a proper playbook for how to use it 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.080 and some training for how to use it smartly, no surprise, 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.960 garbage in, garbage out. I actually thought this story appealed 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.960 to me not just because of the you know, work 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.480 place context, but also the macro context and these swirling 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.440 questions about whether all this investment in AI will actually 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.520 pay off to transform the economy and the financial times 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.440 at a great piece where they actually used AI but 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.239 in an intriguing way to do a kind of meta 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.520 analysis of SEC filings of different companies and how they're 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.840 using AI. The takeaway was quote, the biggest US listed 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.160 companies keep talking about AI, but other than fear of 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.360 missing out, few appear to be able to describe how 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.360 the technology is changing their business for the better. Stick 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:35.119 with that for a moment. 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.160 That's really crazy. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.280 On top of that, MIT put out a report in 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.000 July that found that ninety five percent of organizations are 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.520 getting zero return. What do you mean by that, Well, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.680 I guess the benefits are not being realized in the 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.120 real world by most people. The HBr thing goes on 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.680 to talk about how, based on self reporting, forty one 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.880 percent of employees say they're dealing with AI slop and 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.680 each instance of ailop cost them almost two hours to 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.400 clean up whatever the slop is. So have a business 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.160 review goes on to estimate that each incident of workslop 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.000 creates what they call an invisible tax of one hundred 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.160 and eighty six dollars per month per employee. Now, I'm 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.840 going to do some math here. Please do For a 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.320 company that say ten thousand people, if forty one percent 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.520 of those people are dealing with work slop, and that 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.680 forty one percent is wasting one hundred and eighty six 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.480 dollars per month to fix the slop, that comes out 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.160 to over nine million dollars of loss productivity per year 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.640 for the company if they have ten thousand employees. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.959 That's a lot of money to fix the slop. Actually, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.080 do you think it is going to stop people from 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.880 integrating AI tools or stop founders like yourself? 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.000 Now? Definitely not. Because it's exciting and it has a 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.599 tremendous promise and it could change the world. At the 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.160 same time, there is this deep irony here, right, So 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.040 it may not really work right now, but if it 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.480 does work and we don't invest in it, we're dead 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:58.160 in the water. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.679 All right. So moving away from the workplace, I want 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.240 to talk about a staggering figure I read in an 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.439 article from Business Insider this week, which is this five 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.520 hours of daily screen time equals fifteen years of life 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.040 by the age of seventy. 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.840 Man, that's depressing. I think I'm closer to ten hours. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.440 You think you're on ten hours of screen? 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.960 I just phone and computer to phone computer. 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.800 Is Is that your life or is that another life 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:25.600 that could be lived? 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:26.800 Definitely the latter. 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.079 It's crazy. H Well, So this was in a Business 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:35.040 Insider article about a group of people who are kind 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.760 of reclaiming the term Luddite, who gathered at the Highline 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.959 in New York City to protest the use of screens. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:47.040 Essentially, yeah, I just you mentioned reclaiming the term luddite. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.800 Luddite is used as a smear or has been used 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.000 as a smear to describe people who have like a 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.080 aversion to technology. But I think the word has been 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.320 rehistoricized this year and people have done work on the 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:03.920 origin story the Luddites who were brave, forward looking protesters 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.600 who at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution were willing 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.800 to sacrifice their lives to protest against the mechanization of 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.640 society and how it was making people jobless and in 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.280 some case go hungry and in some case be killed 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.199 by machines. So it is interesting seeing this work come 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:20.480 back into vogue. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.440 I think in this case it has a lot for 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.760 these people who were gathering. I don't know how much 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.880 it had to do with the state of work, as 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.520 it had to do with how much time we are 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.760 wasting on our screens and what the human cost of 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.319 wasting that time is. Business Insider sent someone to the 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.720 rally and basically she described what she saw there, so 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.760 in the article she actually said a number of people 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.120 were dressed up, and lots of them more colorful hats 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.920 in the shape of cones, meant to symbolize the down 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:50.640 to earth, humble garden gnome. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.160 Interesting lots of critique about the tech industry. Do you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.800 think that dressing as a gnome will make the lords 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.760 of the universe? Can the boots? 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.840 I don't think quake in their boots necessarily. I think 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.679 there's a sort of tongue in cheek aspect to this rally. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.319 The hats were one example of that. There's also the 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.680 name of the event, which I loved, scathing hatred of 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.920 information technology and the passionate hemorrhaging of our neoliberal experience, which, 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.640 as you may guess, is an acronym for shit phone. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.480 I don't think I've used the words neoliberals since I 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.960 was in college. For that, I've never used Neil's the 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.240 core of that message. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.280 Yeah, you know. According to the Reporter and Business Insider, 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:36.000 the goal is to actually advocate for healthier relationships with 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.480 technology and quote in the article to take a conscious 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.960 step back from the social media apps, which I agree 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.280 with and need to implement in my own life. I 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.679 was actually telling you this before we started the show, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.640 that there was this very serendipitous moment where a woman 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.880 came into the coffee shop where I was working, and 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.440 she said, can you please charge his phone? And I 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.800 look at it and it's a flip phone, and so 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:00.800 I'm thinking to myself, here's an opportunity to have a 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.040 conversation with her. And I said, you know, when did 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:04.480 you get this flip phone? And she said, I got 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.959 it a few months ago because I was noticing that 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.120 my memory was getting really bad, Like she just had 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.280 a hard time remembering things that she was reading. And 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.400 she said that since she started using this flip phone 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.880 that like her memory has come back within a matter 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:19.960 of weeks. I don't know exactly what that looks like 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.640 for her, but it was just this amazing moment where 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.480 I'm reading this piece about you know, techno ludditism, and 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.640 basically this woman comes in doing. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.480 Exactly that's living that life. Yeah, I mean, how old 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:33.079 was this woman? 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:34.320 She must have been our age. 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.760 Okay, yeah, but the protests and they're gen z their 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.120 gen z. And I think one of the trends which 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.760 is emerging is that the most anti tech generation is 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.199 the generation who grew up most on tech, which is 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:45.840 kind of interesting. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.120 I think that's because they never grew up without it, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:49.600 and so I think there is a little bit of 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.760 a nostalgia for a time that they never had. It's 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.920 like me using vinyl, you know what I mean, Like, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:55.680 I think it's cool because I didn't have to use it. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.640 But Oz, this small but mighty rally wasn't the only 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.360 tech rejection I heard about over the weekend. Have you 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.280 actually been in the West fourth subway stop recently? 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:06.840 I have? 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.280 Have you seen the ads for friend dot com? 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.760 No? Well I have seen them not in West Fourth Street. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.720 I saw them in another subway stations. At these like 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.880 big white posters with a picture of a mysterious device 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.680 and a Dictionary definition of the word friend. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.520 Those are actually ads for a wearable device called Friend, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.320 and the ad copy says things like I'll never bail 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.880 on dinner plans, you know, stuff like that. I originally 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.880 found this story that I'm telling you right now on Tumblr. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.839 I actually didn't see it in the subway and there 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.800 was like a thread on tumbler full of pictures of 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.720 these ads that are completely covered in graffiti. So over 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.120 these friend ads people would write things like surveillance capitalism, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.640 or get real friends, or stop profiting off of loneliness, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.880 or friends is flesh and blood. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.800 In other words, people objected to this very much, company 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.800 claiming ownership of the word friend. That's exactly the product though, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:01.760 is like a wearable AI. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.880 This is a wearable device that looks like a miniature 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.160 smart speaker that you wear around your neck. It listens 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.040 to you all day like a friend. It collects your 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.320 data and then you can talk with it via text 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.800 about what's going on my friend, Yeah text, I mean 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.840 this is a lot of my relationships are like this. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.560 And according to Adweek, friend dot com spent over one 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.800 million dollars in subway advertising. The CEO of VI Schiffman 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.560 designed the creative himself and boasted on x that quote, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.760 this is the largest ad campaign in New York subway 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.000 advertising history. 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.720 I read that Avi Schiffman raised five million dollars for 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.720 Friend a year ago and spent, as you mentioned, one 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.040 million on this campaign. And he said to Adweek, I 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.880 don't have much money left. I spent it all on this. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.120 It's a huge gamble. This makes me laugh because I 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.920 have a pretty strong feeling and you know, I'm waiting 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.880 to be corrected that Friend will not take off as 0:14:58.920 --> 0:14:59.400 a product. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.840 I think think what's really funny about it is that 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.360 sometimes the marketing is the thing itself. And I think 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.200 it's really funny that people are engaging so much in 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.760 the defacing of these ads. And I think what's interesting 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.880 is that people know exactly what it is when they 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:15.880 look at the ad, and they also know that they 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.520 don't want to engage in using it. And so I 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.680 think the proof is in the putting in terms of 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.320 what people are writing on these ads. And again it 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:29.080 ties back to there's this growing trend to pull away 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.760 from just the onslaught of like digital interface that we 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.600 have in our lives. It's just I think gen Z 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:43.440 is really aware of how much products devices are co 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.000 opting their lives, and they don't. They're mad as hell 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.200 and they don't want to take it anymore. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.080 I think the big question for me really is, will 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:57.200 this anger and frustration there's coalescing around the role of 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.960 technology in our lives. Will it become a political force. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.880 Will it be organized enough and durable enough to actually 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.840 drive any change in the way technology is used, the 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.680 way it's regulated. I mean, it's you know, it's really 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.560 it's really really hard to make society. What changes. Of course, 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.400 it did happen with cigarettes and sugar, ELTs and sugar, 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.960 and so, you know, we'll see after break. Some more headlines. 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.800 A top video game company is going private in a 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.600 fifty billion dollar deal. Italy becomes the first country in 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.400 the EU to pass its own AI regulations, and an 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.560 AI actress has agents lining up to sign her. Then 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:48.160 on chatting me, we learn Spanish. Stay with us. So, Kara, 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.640 you asked me at the beginning of the episode whether 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:52.520 I was wearing shoes. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:53.560 Yeah I did. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.240 I'm going to ask you now, do you play video games? Hell? 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:58.560 Yeah you do. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.760 I know I knew you didn't, and I was wondering 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.400 if you're going to ask me, what do you play 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.720 I'm a big Moriocart eight switch user. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:06.600 Oh interesting, yea. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.400 I fall asleep with it on me all the time 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.600 and it hits me in the face and then I 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:11.000 wake up. 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.199 So as a resounding yes, yes, have you heard the 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:14.920 story about electronic arts this week? 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.359 E A Sports It's in the game. If I say 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.960 that to my sister, she'd be like, yep, I know 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:20.040 exactly what you're talking about. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.960 So it's a massive video game company, both titled like Fifa, 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.639 Madden and the Sims, and it has agreed to go 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.199 private for the price of fifty five billion dollars. According 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.280 to The New York Times. If the deal goes through, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.199 it will be the largest buyout of a publicly traded 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.040 company ever, not adjusting for inflation. 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.240 So what happens to the shareholders? 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:47.240 They get money two hundred and ten dollars per share, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.240 which is a twenty five percent premium to the company's 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.119 share price as a public company. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.199 So who's paying for this? This is just crazy money. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.719 The group of investors led by Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.560 Infinity Partners, which is Jared Kushner's private equity firm, and finally, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.280 another firm Silver Lake, who also rumored to be part 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:09.440 of the TikTok deal. 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.080 So that is the other huge deal that's said to 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.320 be decided in the coming months. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.800 I mean to me, these stories go side by side. Obviously, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.080 Jared Kushner being involved in the EA deal and you 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.240 benefiting from his Trump connections. The TikTok deal has, you know, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.080 Larry and David Ellison front and centered in a deal 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.439 being broken by the Trump administration and the Chinese government. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:34.760 It's interesting to me, you know how US technology capitalism 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.439 is kind of more and more integrating with the state, 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.520 or at the very least the Trump the Trump Friends 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:42.400 and Family. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.639 Circle, Yes, Trump fn F as we'd like to call it. 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.800 So what's going to happen next in this electronic arts buyout. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.320 Well, the deal has to be approved by the government's 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.800 Committee on Foreign Investment, which reviews foreign buyouts for security concerns. 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.600 There are concerns about data, of course. I mean a 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.800 lot of people play video games in the US, which 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.119 means there's a lot of data that could be collected 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:06.400 by a foreign government. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.480 So do you look at app store charts? 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.960 I look at podcast charts because. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:13.280 You want to see how your podcasts are doing because 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.959 you're a founder. That's why I actually look at the 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.080 App store charts sometimes because I think it's really interesting 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.280 what's trend Usually it's the same stuff that's trending. But 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.160 last week I actually noticed that there was this new 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.120 app that I'd never seen before called Neon Mobile at 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:27.800 the top of the chart. 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:28.560 The top of the charts. 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.840 Yes, it was at the top of the charts, and 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.840 then it disappeared or it stopped being used for a 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:34.679 privacy issue. 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.440 Well why was it so popular in the first place? 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:37.879 Because people were making money? 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.520 Of course, Okay, back up a couple of steps. What 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.760 is neomobile and how are people making money from it? 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.960