1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, it's listener questions. 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: That's right, you write to me, I read them and 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: then I answer them in that order. Usually, if you 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: have a question that you want to ask me, you 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: can email me at Creature Feature pot at gmail dot 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: com and I will answer them to the best of 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: my ability. So, first up is this question. Growing up, 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: I knew that typically we see owls during twilight hours 11 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: and or at night, but just recently I had a 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: co worker tell me that owls can choose whether or 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: not they want to be out during the daytime or nighttime, 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: and depending on what the owl the sides, its eye 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: color changes. Accordingly, this person told me that daytime owl's 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: eye color will be yellow and nighttime owl's eye color 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: will be black. Is this true or is it a myth? 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: Melissa H Thank you so much for your questions. So 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: first of all, uh, you should definitely call out your 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: coworker because this is not exactly true, and you should 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: call them out in front of everyone and point of 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: them and say you lie to me, you liar, No, 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: don't do that. So it's not true that an individual 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: owl's eyes can change color based on whether it wants 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: to be out during the day or night, but on 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: the species level, yes, their eyes are different based on 27 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: their habits. So different owl species have different sleep wake habits. 28 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Some are nocturnal, meaning they're most active at night, some 29 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: are crepuscular, meaning they're most active at dawn and dusk. 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: There are only two species of owls who are dire 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: all like us, meaning they sleep during the night and 32 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: are awake during the day, and these are the northern 33 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: hawk owl found in the Northern Hemisphere and the Northern 34 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: pygmy owl, a little owl found in Northwest America. The 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: iris color in owls tends to correlate to the owl's 36 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: wake sleep habits, so nocturnal species are more likely to 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: have dark irises than crepuscular or diurnal owl species. The 38 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: theory is that the dark irises allow the nocturnal owls 39 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: to be more camouflaged in the night, as their irises 40 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: are less likely to show up. While there are nocturnal 41 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: owl species with yellow or gold irises, these are more unusual. 42 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: Researchers have been able to establish a trend amongst nocturnal 43 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: species favoring worker irises, and they believe that the evolution 44 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: of dark irises is likely due to owl species evolution 45 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: towards nocturnality. So it sounds kind of like your coworker 46 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: may have heard this and either it wasn't explained to 47 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: them all that clearly. So it is not a single 48 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: individual owl cannot at will change its eye color, but 49 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: different owl species do have different colored irises based on 50 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: whether they are nocturnal or crepuscular or diurnal. Although there 51 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: are it is certainly not a hard and fast rule. 52 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: There are nocturnal owls who have lighter irises and vice versa. 53 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: But generally speaking, those dark irises really help out the 54 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: nocturnal owls to keep those bright irises from alerting their 55 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: prey that they're coming for them, because owls like to 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: be swift and unseen death for many mice. So some 57 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: bird irises do actually change color throughout their life as 58 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: they mature. In some species, young birds are born with 59 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: brown irises, which eventually develop into yellow irises as they mature. 60 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: This is the case for golden eyed ducks, bald eagles, 61 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: and ring build goals. Cooper's Hawk irises actually start out 62 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: as yellow as youngsters, and they turn red as they 63 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: grow into adults. The theory behind this kind of eye 64 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: color change with maturity is that the change in the 65 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: iris may help with sexual selection by being an honest 66 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: indicator of the bird's maturity. But there are some animals 67 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: whose eye colors will change back and forth throughout their life, 68 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: and this is the case with the reindeer. So not 69 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: a bird, a reindeer. Their eyes are gold in the 70 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: summer and blue in winter. The change in their eye 71 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: color is not due to pigment, but the structural changes 72 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: in their timpeedeum, a membrane of reflective tissue behind the retina. 73 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: By reflecting light, it helps amplify dim light, making it 74 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: more likely to hit a photoreceptor cell, so the animal 75 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: can detect light in dark conditions. So essentially they have 76 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: a mirror like membrane at the back of their eye 77 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: that will reflect light back out and that allows them 78 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: another shot at hitting one of their photoreceptor cells. So 79 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: you've probably seen a timped them in the glowing eyes 80 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: of a cat at night. So for these reindeer during winter, 81 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: it's very dark, and so they keep their pupils more 82 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: dilated all the time, and that constant dilation of their 83 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: eyes actually causes ice rain and pressure to build up, 84 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: which is a temporary case of glaucoma. This also squeezes 85 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: the tapped um, which changes its structure, so instead of 86 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: reflecting yellow light, it starts to reflect blue light and 87 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: changes from yellow to blue. We actually talked about the 88 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: difference between pigmentation and structural coloration in the podcast I 89 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: did recently with Daniel Whitzen, a particle physicist, called Physics 90 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: Is Why Nature Is Pretty? I think that's the title. 91 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, so you can have these changes in physical 92 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: structure of something like a membrane or a lens or 93 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: or a crystalline structure, and that will actually cause a 94 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: change in how we perceive that color because it will 95 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: bend the light differently, will reflect or refract different types 96 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: of wavelength. So when they have this kind of squished 97 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: tampeedum and the turn due to eye strain, because their 98 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: pupils are constantly dilated, it has changed it such that 99 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: it refracts that blue wavelength rather than that more yellow wavelength. 100 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: So I think that's really interesting, and yeah, thank you 101 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: so much for the question. Even when someone it maybe 102 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: has a here's an Old wives tale or has a 103 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: misunderstanding about nature, usually if you dig into it, you'll 104 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: still find something really, really amazing. So onto question two. 105 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: That's my question too. Song Okay, Hi Katie, thank you 106 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: for your super great show. We and my family love 107 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: spiders and possums, and I myself actually love earwigs too, 108 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: because they're just so cute with their kind of idiotic 109 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: curiosity braveness mixed with how well they take care for 110 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: their littles. I've been fascinated by convergent evolution, especially hawk 111 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: moths and hummingbirds wild that morpholo agically and behaviorally they 112 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: match so well given how far apart they are philo genetically. Wow, 113 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: I can't believe I pulled that word out of my brain. 114 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: I blame your show. So if we found a planet 115 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: that's Earth's twin and has one dominant intelligent technological species, 116 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: would it possibly be humanoid? Obviously science fiction creators seem 117 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: to think so, or they just write about blue women 118 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: because of all of the best actors on Earth are 119 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: already humanoid. Anyways, thank you a million times. I never 120 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: miss an episode. Jan Thank you so much. You're very sweet, 121 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: and I love your question, so it is a really 122 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: fascinating question. Obviously, I've never seen an alien myself, so 123 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: I cannot answer for sure, but I do think there's 124 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: a very good chance of an alien who evolved on 125 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: like Earth Point too could be very humanoid, and I 126 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: believe in the idea that they would probably be a 127 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: terrestrial maybe kind of human ish human adjacent kind of animal, 128 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: if it were able to develop a civilization like we 129 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: have with technological advancements. Now, this doesn't necessarily extend to 130 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: all intelligent life. Obviously, there's a lot of intelligent life 131 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: right here on Earth who don't really have technologies so 132 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: to speak. They may have tools, but not technology, And 133 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: so I can imagine a lot of really interesting alien 134 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: life that wouldn't necessarily have technological advancements, but would still 135 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: be really intelligent and may look completely different from humans 136 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: or anything else we have on Earth. But in terms 137 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: of a specifically an alien creature evolving on Earth Point 138 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: to you know, carbon based life form same conditions and 139 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: evolved to have a technological society, I believe yes, it's 140 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: very likely to be at least humanoid, somewhat human looking 141 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: maybe not exactly like humans, probably a lot of weird differences. 142 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: But here's here's why I think it's likely they at 143 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: least share a few key traits with us. So there 144 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: are a lot of intelligent species on Earth, but there 145 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: are factors that may prevent them from developing a civilization 146 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: like we have. So take octopuses. They are very clever, 147 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: very intelligent, but there are a few issues that would 148 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: prevent them from, say, developing a technological civilization unless they 149 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: went through some pretty dramatic evolution, even more dramatic than say, 150 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: from a primate to a human. So octopuses live in 151 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: an aquatic environment that makes civilization building tasks really challenging 152 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: to impossible, such as trying to create lasting structures or 153 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: fire or agriculture. That's all really really difficult underwater. Obviously, 154 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: you can't even really make fire underwater, and that can 155 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: be really important for technological advancement. And in addition to that, 156 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: octopuses have a couple other things that would prevent them 157 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: from developing a utopian octopus civilization. As much as I 158 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: would love that one, is there pretty solitary. They did 159 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: not evolve to be social, and that is a real 160 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: bummer if you're trying to make a civilization because you 161 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: need help. And another issue is their lifespans are so 162 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: gosh darn short. They usually only live a year or so, 163 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: maybe a little over a year, and they will die 164 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: after reproducing, and it's both very sad and heartbreaking. But 165 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: you also, I think would need a much longer lifespan 166 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: to ever hope to have a civilization. So unless the 167 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: octopus went through some really rigorous changes, maybe even became terrestrial, 168 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: then maybe they could develop into a more society building 169 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: type animal, but it would be difficult, it would be 170 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: a long journey. Terrestrial life, meanwhile, gives you a lot 171 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: more opportunity to create things like lasting structures, to create 172 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: tools that you can store somewhere, and they don't, you know, 173 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: drift away. Um. But why, I mean, we have a 174 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: lot of terrestrial life, right, We have a lot a 175 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: huge diversity of terrestrial life, from flying to slithering to 176 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: hopping everything. So why would a civilization ready animal be 177 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: humanoid and not something like a super intelligent snake or 178 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 1: spider or a super society of dogs. So having hands 179 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: and the ability to manipulate in craft tools I think 180 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: is really important. If you want a technologically advanced society, 181 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: you can obviously have a social group of animals like 182 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: wolf packs have these complex social groups without having hands, 183 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: but they can't really build things complex tools. Um. Of course, 184 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: there are a few non primate species who can build tools, 185 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: like New Caledonian crows and other intelligent birds who are 186 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: also highly intelligent puzzle solvers and can be highly social 187 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: and are also capable of complex language skills. So it 188 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: seems like birds might be a prime candidate for building 189 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: like a technological society. So why not a civilization of birds? Well, 190 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: I would think that flying is going to get in 191 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: the way of them ever really evolving to the level 192 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: of humans. Uh. While flying is a wonderful adaptation, it 193 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: is a costly one. It consumes a lot of energy, 194 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: and our brains are huge energy hogs. If you want 195 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: a big brain, it's going to take a lot of energy, 196 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: like a fancy computer graphics card and processor. So if 197 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: you want a huge brain that's really capable of next 198 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: level technological stuff, you probably don't want to invest as 199 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: much in flying. And so if you're a flightless bird, uh, 200 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: maybe you'd have a better chance, but you'd still have 201 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: the issue of you don't have hands, you have a beak, 202 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: which you know, birds can use their beaks to develop tools, 203 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: like take a twig and kind of bend it into 204 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: a hook. But that's it's I mean, the the motor 205 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: capabilities of a hand versus a beak are quite stunningly different. 206 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: So there's a lot more you can do with a 207 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: pair of hands to like with one beak. It's relatively 208 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: hard for them to sort of do actions together. I mean, 209 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: there are some birds who can like push their beak 210 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: against their feet or against the ground and get a 211 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: little more leverage. But having those two really motor capable, 212 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: dextrous hands are very very useful for bill holding complex tools. 213 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: So I think basically what you would need for a 214 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: not just an intelligent species, not just a social species, 215 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: but a species capable of building a civilization with technology, 216 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: you would need two eyes. Uh, because having that depth 217 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: perception UM I think is really important to be able 218 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: to um basically build and plan things. I think you 219 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: wouldn't need more eyes than that. You probably actually wouldn't 220 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: want more eyes than that because more eyes, more sensory tools, 221 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: more sensory equipment means investing more brain power into visual processing, 222 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: which takes resources away from the cognitive and social centers 223 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: of the brain. So you kind of you wanna be 224 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: careful about what you are in vesting your brain power in, 225 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: and for a civilization, you need a lot in terms 226 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: of that social and cognitive processing center. So if you 227 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: invest too much in the visual center, you're going to 228 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: have less for those centers of the brain. You would 229 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: also need some kind of complex language. This could be 230 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: achieved through vocalizations. I think it could also be achieved 231 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: through sign language, some kind of visual language that you 232 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: can create signs and symbols really quickly. Um. If you 233 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: have some appendages that would be capable of creating a 234 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: language out of gestures like human sign language can do, 235 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: I think that would be UM. I think that would 236 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: be enough in terms of being able to communicate. Vocalizations 237 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: have the advantage of being able to alert your group 238 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: of danger from afar, Like a lot of primates will 239 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: have alarm cries because there's a hawk above. So that's 240 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: probably the fulness of that is probably why we developed 241 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: a vocalization type communication rather than all humans developing sign language. 242 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: Although sign language is a very it is a form 243 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: of language that comes very naturally for us to develop, 244 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: so you can have there have been instances of like 245 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: groups of children who are deaf, like in a deaf school, 246 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: spontaneously coming up with their own sign language. So that 247 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: is a really innate ability to create a language out 248 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: of whatever tools we have, whether it's vocalization or signs. 249 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: So I could see good arguments for either vocalization based 250 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: language or sign based language in some kind of alien 251 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: species in Earth two point oh uh, chemical communication like 252 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: that we see with ants and many other animals, such 253 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: as pheromones. I'm not entirely sure if that could be 254 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: if that would be enough to develop into a really complex, 255 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: dynamic language, because vocalizations or signs have the advantage of 256 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: being able to like be quickly expressed in real time 257 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: and quickly read in real time, whereas a pheromone is 258 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: kind of a thing you leave out, uh for something 259 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: to happen upon. So you would need to basically be 260 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: able to puff out rapid pheromones and a complex stream 261 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: of pheromones that your conversation partner could quickly detect. And 262 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: I think that's it may be more complex and difficult 263 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: than sale language that is either vocal or through sign 264 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: and so those I think are the requirements for this 265 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: like Earth point to intelligent species? Would this happen? Like? 266 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: Is it likely that you would have another basically like 267 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: civilization building species on Earth point to? Or are we 268 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: sort of supremely lucky or unique? In my opinion, I 269 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: think it's actually fairly fairly likely. I think that you know, 270 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: there is a lot of evidence that brains and eyes 271 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: evolved multiple times independently. We had eyes kind of coming 272 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: up over and over again, uh, and complex brains kind 273 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: of evolving independently over and over again. And so it 274 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 1: seems like with similar evolutionary pressures, as long as you 275 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: could get life to start on this Earth, which you know, 276 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: may not be a guarantee, but if you could, I 277 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: think it's probably pretty likely you would get intelligent species. 278 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: And if the Earth lasts long enough and evolution runs 279 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: its course, I think having a species that ends up 280 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: uh the selective pressure favoring so much uh socialization and 281 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: intelligence and cognition that you actually start to get to 282 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: civilization levels of intelligence, I think that's pretty likely, if 283 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: not maybe maybe even inevitable. I don't know if I 284 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: would go that far, but yeah, maybe, And you know, 285 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: I think that these earth point to civilization. They may 286 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: not look exactly like us and sound exactly like us. 287 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: I just think they would have some striking similarities. So 288 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: maybe not like a blue human, but maybe they would 289 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: have two eyes. They may actually be front facing eyes 290 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: like ours are, to allow us depth perception for hunting. 291 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: They would probably have a big head and a big brain. 292 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: Maybe their offspring would be born prematurely to accommodate the 293 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: big brain by allowing their skull to kind of be squishy, 294 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: just like our offspring. And maybe they would have two 295 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: arm appendages with some kind of dexterrous grasping ends. They 296 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to be hands with fingers, but something 297 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: that allows them that fine precision of making tools. And 298 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: would they be bipedal? I mean, I think it's certainly possible, 299 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: because you know, we developed that bipedal walking behavior, probably 300 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: so we could do things like hold our tools as 301 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: we walked. So I would expect there to be at 302 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: least some capability of being bipedal, even if they're not 303 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: always bipedal. Uh, you know, would they be like a 304 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: centaur where they would have like four legs and then 305 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: two arms. I don't know, I think that that's possible. 306 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: I suppose I would think that would make developing a 307 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: sort of immature, big brained offspring kind of more difficult 308 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: to be able to kind of, you know, hold and 309 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: carry something of those proportions. But you know, it's it's 310 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, maybe that would be possible. I I just 311 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: my sense is, and maybe I'm just not being creative enough, 312 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: but my sense is, Yeah, it would be something may 313 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: be similar to us, maybe harrier, maybe less hairy. Lots 314 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: of possibilities for differences, you know, different skin texture, like 315 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: could we have scales, Yeah, sure, I don't know. Would 316 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: we have a completely different kind of vocalization, completely different 317 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: sorts of facial expressions and bone structure? Yeah, absolutely, I 318 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: think that's possible. But yeah, I think there would be 319 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: some really interesting, really bizarre similarities between us and an 320 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: alien species that evolved on an earthlike planet, which I 321 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: think is interesting. Onto the final question of the day, 322 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: not the final question in general, There's always going to 323 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: be more questions. I don't think there would ever be 324 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: a final question that would be sad and bad. It'd 325 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: mean like the universe would implode or we'd learn everything, 326 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: and both of those sound really boring. So yeah, final 327 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: question of this podcast, but not final question in the 328 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: universe gratings. So I've had to limit the number of 329 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: questions to ask from your informative episodes. Otherwise I'm pretty 330 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: sure this would be a book. Thank you for doing that. 331 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but I'm also glad you have so 332 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: many questions. That's a good thing. Listening to the Squid 333 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: Games episode, which I can't watch because it's only in 334 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: subtitles after Colossal Squid, I can only assume there would 335 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: be a kraken. My question is, if there was a 336 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: cephalopod capable of reaching such an extreme size, do you 337 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: think it would resemble a squid appearance, octopus, octopus appearance, 338 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: or a mixture of both. Your fan Dan, Well, thanks 339 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: fan Dan, So interesting question about cephalopod size. The short 340 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: answer is that I believe squid is probably the most 341 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: likely thing to reach crack in size. Now, would they 342 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: reach crack in size, I'm not sure. Um, I suppose 343 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: it's possible. I would think though. It seems like the 344 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: biggest animals in the sea are ones that breathe with lungs, 345 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: like the blue whales, So blue whales have a couple 346 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: of advantages for them in terms of getting too huge 347 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: crack in size, and that is their lungs, because lung 348 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: breathing is a lot more efficient than gills even if 349 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: they are underwater, surprisingly like coming up to surface every 350 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: forty minutes or hour or so to breathe and get 351 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: in a huge amount of oxygen, and diving is surprisingly 352 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: more efficient than breathing water and extracting oxygen from water. 353 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: So they have a lot of efficiency when it comes 354 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: to getting enough oxygen through a massive body. And so 355 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if you would ever have a cephalopod 356 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: that and does not have air breathing lungs to those proportions, 357 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: but if you did, I would gets squid shape. And 358 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: so first that is based on the current situation, which 359 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: is octopuses tend to be smaller than squid and the 360 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: largest octopus is the giant Pacific octopus. And the absolute 361 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: largest specimen of giant pacific octopus is ever known was 362 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: thirty ft long and over six hundred pounds or nine 363 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: meters and two d seventy which is wow, pretty big, 364 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: pretty big, old squishy boy. This was a special individual 365 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: though typically Pacific giant op Wow, giant pacific oct jeez, 366 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: why am I pacific? No? Alright, I'm gonna get it 367 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: this time, promise. Giant pacific octopus. Wow, I did that 368 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: Like a champ um. They are typically smaller, about half 369 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: as long in a sixth of the weights, so that 370 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: specimen I described that as absolutely massive. That was a 371 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: unique individual. But because it did get that size, look, 372 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 1: then it means it's physically possible. So that seems pretty big. However, 373 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: in comparison, one of the largest squid species in terms 374 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: of heft is the colossal squid, which uh can weigh 375 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: up to around one thousand, five hundred pounds and are 376 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: over thirty three ft long, so that's six eight and 377 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: ten meters, so yeah, pretty big boys. A giant squid 378 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: specimen is actually the largest cephalopod recorded that I was 379 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: able to find um. Even though colossal squid tend to 380 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: be heavier on average than the giant squid, uh, giant 381 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: squid tend to be longer, and the largest squid recorded 382 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: was a giant squid specimen, and this was over forty 383 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: three ft or thirteen meters long and likely weighed around 384 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: two thousand pounds or over nins, which yeah, it's pretty big. 385 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: So why do squid get so much larger than octopuses? 386 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: So I think likely their anatomy gives them a leg 387 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: or I guess a tentacle up on being able to 388 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: get that big. So the way to get that big, uh, 389 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: and the evolutionary pressures to get that big would be 390 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: to be a deep deep sea creature, like really far down. 391 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: And most octopuses are not necessarily well adapted for the 392 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: deepest ocean, although there are some, and those that are, 393 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: like the Dumbo octopus, have actually developed fins to allow 394 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: them to move at low energy levels, where a lot 395 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: of squid have fins. Now, this is key because both 396 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: octopuses and squid use jet propulsion to move. That's taking 397 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: in water on through one siphon then farting it out 398 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: and that makes them go forward. But squid also tend 399 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: to have fins that will help them coast along on 400 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: low amounts of energy, and so they can actually be 401 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: more energy efficient in moving over longer distances. And this 402 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: is really important for the deep sea giant squid lifestyle. So, 403 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: like I mentioned just a little bit ago, if you 404 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: want a species to get real big in the ocean, 405 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: usually you want to force him to go deeper in 406 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: the ocean. I mean obviously over you know, evolution periods 407 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: of time, Like you've got the giant is a pod, 408 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: you've got the giant crabs, and these are deep sea 409 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: creatures that to negate really huge. And why does this 410 00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: gigantism happen, Well, this is because the deep ocean is 411 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: sparse and nutrition. It's like a big desert, but the 412 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: sand is water. And while you might think that you 413 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: should be small so you don't need as much food, 414 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: actually being small means you have a much more rapid metabolism. 415 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: If a hummingbird or a tiny bat or a shrew 416 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: just skips a few meals, they can die, whereas a 417 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: larger animal like a bear can hibernate through long periods 418 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: of time. And you know or or you know, like 419 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,239 Speaker 1: something like a big snake can eat a meal and 420 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: go for a long time in between meals. So being 421 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: bigger can actually help you have a much slower metabolism. 422 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: So even though you need more food to get that big, 423 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: you can have a big meal and then a long 424 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: break in between those meals. And so that's important if 425 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: you're in a food dessert. Essentially where you may go 426 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: a long time before seeing any food as long as like, 427 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: once you see some food, you can get a good 428 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: amount of it. And because the squid are more hydrodynamic, 429 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: they have those fin lined bodies and they can travel 430 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: longer distances. They can have that sort of lifestyle of 431 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: just sort of carefully casually drifting in this deep ocean, 432 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: and then when they see a fish or even a 433 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: smaller squid, they can eat it, uh and then go 434 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: a long period of time without eating again. Whereas octopuses 435 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: tend not to I think, be as hydrodynamic, they are 436 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: not as efficient and they don't aren't able, wouldn't be 437 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: able to travel those long distances as efficiently as say 438 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: in a squid type body shape. So that is why 439 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: I think the kraken would probably be a squid. But 440 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: if you want a kraken, uh, it would probably actually 441 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: need to breathe oxygen, which currently suffle pods don't do. 442 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: So you oh, that's why I think whales tend to 443 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,959 Speaker 1: be the big ones that we find so whale sized 444 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: cracking probably not, but you know, the biggest cephalopods are 445 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: probably going to have that nice like um, you know, 446 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: long distance train like body that the giants would have 447 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: with the fins that helped them coast over long distances, 448 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: so they can get a nice meal sort of just 449 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: cruise for a while and then get another nice meal. So, hey, 450 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: you know what, thank you so much for your questions. 451 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: I love them so much. They make me think and 452 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: research and you know, really, I just really appreciate it 453 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: and I love interacting with you guys. So hey, if 454 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: you have a question, you can write to me a 455 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: Creature feature pod act gmail dot com. I'll do the 456 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: answer to to the guests who squawking thing next week 457 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: and so look forward to that. Hey, you know what, 458 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Uh. 459 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: And also thanks to the Space Costics for their super 460 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of I 461 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one you just heard, 462 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or Hey, 463 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: guess what? Why do you listen to your favorite shows? Look, 464 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: it's just you and me here today. So I got 465 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: a little secret. I don't actually care where you listen 466 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: to your podcast. It can be anywhere. I'm not going 467 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: to tell them you've I'm not going to tell them 468 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: that you're safe. You're safe with me. I'm not an arc. 469 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm not a pod an ARC. See you next Wednesday.