1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,320 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 2: So when I'm creating, I think I kind of just 3 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 2: try to make space for concepts, whether that'll be a 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: lyrical concept or just you know, a melodic shape, something 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: that feels like it's making a really clear statement. And 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: when that pulls at me and I can kind of 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: visualize what a full song would sound like from there, 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: it then kind of gives way to dialing it in 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: and making it a full song. 10 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: explores the stories behind the music, and today we're joined 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: by an artist who's on a songwriting and powerful voice 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: have resonated with fans all over the world, Livingstone. From 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: his early days crafting songs in his bedroom to sharing 15 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: his music on stages across the country. Livingston's journey is 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: a testament to the power of vulnerability and perseverance. 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: In this episode, we'll. 18 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Talk about the moments that shape his artistry, the inspiration 19 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: behind his most moving songs, and what he's learned along 20 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: the way. Buzz talks with Livingston about his new deluxe edition, 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: A Hometown Odyssey. A story continues on Taking a Walk. 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 4: Livingston, thanks for being on the Taking a Walk Podcast. 23 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 4: It's an honor having you on. 24 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 25 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 4: So since the show is called taking a Walk, I'd 26 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 4: like to ask this question before we get the proceedings going. 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 4: If you could take a walk with somebody who is 28 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 4: involved with music, living or dead. Who would you take 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 4: a walk with and where do you think you would 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 4: like to take that walk? 31 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 2: I would love to take a walk with Rick Group 32 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: and at Changri La in Alibi. 33 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 4: That would be pretty intense, or maybe the opposite, Maybe 34 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 4: it would be like the most relaxing. 35 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: Then I feel like he has this aura of calm 36 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: around him or at least just like deeper thought, like 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: takes you out of the real world and into kind 38 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: of the I choose on shoose Off tooos Off for sure. 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 4: And what is it like making this move from Denton, 40 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 4: Texas now to the LA based That's a little bit 41 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 4: of a different stop on the map. 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: You know, it's really different, though I categorize my LA 43 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: experience is pretty insulated because I really didn't change much 44 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: about my lifestyle from when I moved from Texas, because 45 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: it was just a move made to focus on becoming 46 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: a better songwriter and producer, which I'm still figuring out. 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: You know, it's years of sessions before I even moved 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: out to LA, and then years of sessions in LA. 49 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: It's more so just a change that pushed me to 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: push myself further as a creator. But most of my 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: time is largely spent alone in my bedroom studio. I 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: don't really go out, don't go to parties. I don't 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: hang out with people that much. 54 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 5: I'd just kind of do my thing, just like in Denton, 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 5: Texas exactly. It's an amazing story, a hometown. Odyssee, the 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 5: story continues. We're going to talk about that for sure, 57 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 5: but I do want to ask you, can you share 58 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 5: a memory from your childhood that first sparked your your 59 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 5: love for music. 60 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: I remember playing rock Band, this video game, I think 61 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: it was on the Wii, back when those were around, 62 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: and I played with my brother and he would drum 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: and I would sing, and it was like just all 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: the classics. It was like more than a feel in 65 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: in Summer sixty nine and Message in a Bottle and 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: like all this stuff from Boston and Police and Queen 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: and like I remember the feeling of like when the 68 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: bridge would come and that part of the song would 69 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,119 Speaker 2: hit that just caught you on a deeper level. And 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: you know, I knew I couldn't sing too well, but 71 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: like you know, it was just fun to jam out 72 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: with my brother and that was kind of the first 73 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: seed planet of music. 74 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 4: I think, well, let's have a little fun with something. 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 4: We'll call it fast five here, so five fast questions. 76 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 4: First concert you ever attended and how it impacted you. 77 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: Tolbe Mack at the American Airline Center in Dallas, Texas, 78 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: and impacted me because I dressed like him and I 79 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: was standing by B stage and when he came out 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: on be stage, he looked at me and he knew 81 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: I was like dressed like him, and he like winked 82 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: at me. And I think it like set my future emotion. 83 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: I love that. 84 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 4: First instrument you ever played out of violin, First time 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,119 Speaker 4: you wrote or composed a song, twelve or thirteen. First 86 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 4: musician you truly admired. 87 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: John Bellian, nice one. 88 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 4: We're trying to get him on the podcast, by the way. 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 4: First memorable experience performing live in front of an audience. 90 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 2: You've group when I was thirteen, convinced the youth group 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: leader to let me perform in front of everybody. Mike 92 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: was off for the first two songs. 93 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: Oh geez. 94 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 4: When you're writing a new song, tell us about the 95 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: creative process. How you start. Do you start with lyrics? 96 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 4: Do you start with melody? 97 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: Is? What is your way of doing it? 98 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: For the longest time, and I think this is still 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: my favorite. It's all concepts first. Like I think everything 100 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: that I create and everything that I love has a 101 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 2: strong why I'm not a big fan of abstract stuff. 102 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 2: I kind of have a simple palette as a consumer 103 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: and as a listener and as a viewer of art, 104 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: I have like a mainstream kind of you know, maybe 105 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: some would call boring an unnuanced, a pugle, but I'm 106 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: just a sucker for like big, solid, clear, emotional fecius 107 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: to anything that I consume. So when I'm creating, I 108 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: think I kind of just try to make space for concepts, 109 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: whether that'll be a lyrical concept or just you know, 110 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: a melodic shape, something that feels like it's making a 111 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: really clear statement. And when that pulls at me and 112 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: I can kind of visualize what a full song would 113 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: sound like from there, it then kind of gives way 114 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: to dialing it in and making it a full song. 115 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 4: Your music is incredible. The lyrics are incredible and you're 116 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 4: twenty two years old, thank. 117 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 6: You so much, and their lyrics that are certainly of 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 6: someone who could be way older than twenty two years old. 119 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 4: Where do you get this sense of focus and incredible wisdom? 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 4: You know? 121 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if I don't think I'm wise, because 122 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: there's still stuff I find out every day in terms 123 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: of just stumble over my land feet and like figuring 124 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: out like, oh, this is this whole way I was 125 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: going about this thing was flawed and there's a better 126 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: way to do it, and like kind of the more 127 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: you know that you realize, the less you know. So 128 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: I think there's that. But I do kind of approach 129 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: life with a like a really inordinate amount of intensity. 130 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: With everything that I do. It's just very intense. I 131 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: experience sensations really intensely and emotions really intensely, sometimes at 132 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: the cost of it being a little too serious. But 133 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: I think that that helps me out when it comes 134 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: to music, because I look at every song as a 135 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: bit of a life or death. Like, you know, if 136 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: I could if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: what would I make today, Which which may be a 138 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: little extreme, but I think that can kind of maybe 139 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: explain some of the intensity or drive to some of 140 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: the songs, because I think that they are our prisms 141 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: for a lot of things that I'm trying to get 142 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: out of my system. Just in case. 143 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: We also produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me. 144 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 4: It's about the sort of the therapeutic and healing power of music. 145 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 4: And I know for you, you went through some terrible 146 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 4: times at school and there was bullying and just an 147 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: awful environment. So I do have to ask you it 148 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 4: has music saved you? And do you think music has 149 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 4: healing power? 150 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean, I think music hit me at the 151 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: perfect time. I think it saved me from whatever else 152 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: I would have found to medicate my issues in middle 153 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: school and high school, the drug to alcohol or partying 154 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: or whatever that the typical and completely understandable advice has 155 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: already kind of drown out the feeling of being alone 156 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: and feeling like other It gave me space to channel 157 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: a lot of negativity into something that, at least to me, 158 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: felt productive at the time. Even though I had nothing 159 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: to show for its demos, I had no idea what 160 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: it would give way to, but I always had a 161 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: feeling about it, and it definitely came at the time 162 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: that I needed it too. 163 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 4: Your lyrics are so deeply personal. Is there a particular 164 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 4: song that was especially cathartic for you or particularly challenging 165 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 4: to write? 166 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: Half Life felt like a turning point moment because I 167 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: remember I wrote that at a time when I was 168 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: just so confused about what to do next, and I had, 169 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: you know, five years of my career under my golt, 170 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: but nothing to really show for quite yet. And I 171 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: remember this feeling of almost rediscovering that initial passion for 172 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: making a statement in a song that felt big and 173 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: clear and universal, and thinking about all the people that 174 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: never sacrificed for me, and all the times in my 175 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: life that I've sacrificed for someone I love, and realizing 176 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: that those moments feels so much more potent than getting 177 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: in these material moments of where things pay off or 178 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: you see the back end of whatever you're doing kind 179 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: of comes to fruition. And I think that song really 180 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: set my course again in a really unclear time. 181 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 4: How do you know that one of your songs, when 182 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 4: you're creating, is truly finished. What's the point that you 183 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 4: know it's done and out the door and done. 184 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: When it sounds like the original visualization of the song 185 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: that I had when the spark hit. Like when the 186 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: spark hits, it's almost like a fifteen second clockwork. Orange 187 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: just blit to that information where I can kind of 188 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: see the entire lifetime of the song play out and 189 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: what it could be and everything that could sound like, 190 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: and then what color it is and what world it 191 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: lives in, and like it's a little glimpse and it 192 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: could last as short as a minute, it can last 193 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: an entire day at the beginning of creating a song. 194 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 2: But whenever the version that I bounce sounds and feels 195 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: and looks to me like that original spark, I know 196 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: that there's no need to keep, you know, beating it 197 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 2: over the head, like another idea will come. 198 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 4: I want to talk about some specific songs off of 199 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: the story continues, but I do want to ask you 200 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 4: about I think it's probably my favorite of your work, 201 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 4: and it's Last Man Standing. Can you talk about that kids, 202 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 4: that song and the motivation behind it. 203 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 3: It's it is. 204 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: It's stellar, man, Thank you so much. That was That 205 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: was a song I wrote when you know, I felt 206 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: like I didn't have enough to show of what I 207 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: had done. So far to this this person that I 208 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: really really loved, that I'd been with for a really 209 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: long time, and I felt like I didn't have enough. 210 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't out here making billions of dollars, 211 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: I wasn't selling out anything. I had nothing, and I had, 212 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: you know, years of having pursued this with nothing really 213 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 2: to show for it. And I was concerned about, like, hey, 214 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: does this still like am I still worthy to you 215 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: as a as a partner? Can I still give you 216 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: what you need if I don't have, you know, the 217 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: world behind me to kind of prove it. Every time 218 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: I would have that conversation with her, I would just 219 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: get reminded like, hey, you were there before anything, like 220 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: before before you know, the kid to school even knew 221 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: I made music. You know, I've been with this person 222 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: since I was fourteen years old. So I think realizing that, 223 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: you know, when you truly love somebody, it's not about 224 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: what they what they bring into the world, or what 225 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: their dreams are, or how realized their final potential is. 226 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: It's just about I love this person for who they 227 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: are and you know, the way that they see the world. 228 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: And so I think it was me realizing that I 229 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: didn't need to be more than I was or do 230 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: more than I was doing to be worthy. 231 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: It's an incredible song. It's so visual. 232 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 2: Thanks, it's really fun life. People really seem to get 233 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 2: into that one and the shows. 234 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:28,239 Speaker 4: So let's talk about grave Digger off of the story continues. 235 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 4: Tell me about that song and motivation behind that. 236 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: I think I'm really introspective to a point where I 237 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: can check my thoughts at the door so much that 238 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: it becomes a new censor. It becomes cyclical and repetitive, 239 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: and I can end up getting in my own way 240 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: and being my own worst enemy. And sometimes that really 241 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: frustrates me, And so I wanted to write a song 242 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 2: about how frustrating that feeling is, to kind of know 243 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: that you are the cause of of whatever you're tripping over. 244 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: It's self induced friction, it's not external. I know a 245 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: lot of people feel like that too. They just want 246 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: to get out of their heads into the world. And 247 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 2: I definitely resonate with that, so I needed to get 248 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 2: it out. 249 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 4: We all do it, right, It's such a common, common flaw, right, Yeah, 250 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 4: in the human condition, which is what you explore. You 251 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 4: explore the human condition, not only in your in your 252 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 4: own self, but in the world around you. How about Look, Mom, 253 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: I Can Fly? Talk about that one. 254 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: I would say, Look, Mom, I Can Fly is the 255 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: exact opposite of Grave Digger. That's that's just a reminder 256 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 2: not to take things so seriously. It's a reminder of 257 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: every song that I've listened to that just makes me, 258 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: let go have a good time and not you know, 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: look for meaning in every single detail, but just kind 260 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: of like you know those days where you wake up 261 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: and you have the roast colored glasses on and everything 262 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: is just like kind of magical and nostalgic, and you're 263 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: not taking yourself to too seriously. There's a lot to 264 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: be said for that feeling, and I don't experience it 265 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: as much as I used to, and so I needed 266 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: to make that song to remind myself of how important 267 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: it is. 268 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: And I want to talk about a couple of others. 269 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 4: A glow off of the story continues. 270 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: Glows is a song describing to somebody the power and 271 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: the light that they have even when they don't see it, 272 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: and when they feel like the world is against them 273 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: and they're at the bottom of a very dark place, 274 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: knowing you can't take them out of that you don't 275 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: know exactly what they're going through, but you can still 276 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: see that they're beautiful and they have something to bring 277 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: to the world even in that place. 278 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 4: And then the last one I want to ask you 279 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: about is Brainstorm. 280 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: Brainstorm is kind of a sister song to Grave Digger, 281 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: and I think it's a little less dark and a 282 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: little bit more visual, and so I think it was 283 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: kind of a kind of improving on the format a 284 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: little bit of I'm going to make a dark song 285 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: about a very introspective thing. Is there a way to 286 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: describe it that feels more grandiose and a little less dark? 287 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 4: And you recalled the moment you realized that music was 288 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 4: going to be a career, not just a little side passion. 289 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I got a call when I was I think sixteen. 290 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: I had sent an email with my first song, fairy Tale, 291 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: that I had made the year before, and I sent 292 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: that to someone that I wanted advice from, but I 293 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 2: didn't know he was an A and R. And he 294 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: told me, okay, I sent this to my boss and 295 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: he signed at Cheeran and all these people and really wants. 296 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: To meet you. 297 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: And that was Greg Nadell, who's a great guy worked 298 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: on Electra Records at the time, and that kind of 299 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: was the moment I was like, Oh, it's been in 300 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: the bedroom, but now it might leave the bedroom, you 301 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: know for a bit. 302 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, what has been the biggest surprise or lesson that 303 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 4: you've learned since entering the music industry? 304 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: Nobody knows what they're doing. Absolutely nobody knows what you're doing. 305 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: There is no formula. Everybody is completely shooting in the dark. 306 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: It is no man's land. It is complete trial and 307 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: error and rubbing sticks together to try to make a spark. 308 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: And the best anybody can do is create authentic things 309 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: and try to make a clear message and you know, 310 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: something that is unambiguous enough to stick out and put 311 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: a foot in the ground on something that is the 312 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: only thread I see behind things that are consistently successful 313 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: in world changing And aside from that, if there is 314 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: any rhyme or reason to this whole industry, I don't 315 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: see it. 316 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 3: Right on. 317 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 4: Memorable stories from touring or performing that you might want 318 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 4: to share that really stand out. 319 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: I know the stories about people who who come to 320 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: the VIP and are like, I haven't been able to 321 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: leave my house for six months, Like I have a 322 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: fear of being around people. I have a fear of noises, 323 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: and you know, I think my my concerts feel really cathartic. 324 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: And so there's base for a lot of people that 325 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: deal with a lot internally. And I love that because 326 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: I think, you know a lot of us, and I 327 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 2: say us meaning you know, people who experience deep things 328 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: internally and have a hard time sometimes bringing that out 329 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: into the world. The temptation is to make that a 330 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: very insulative experience and to not share it and to 331 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: not have a community. And so all these people I've 332 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: met that are like you know, have I've either dealt 333 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: with immense mental or physical challenges and still find themselves, 334 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 2: you know, at the shows showing up and kind of 335 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: facing whatever they need to face and using it as 336 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: an emotional outlet just makes it really rewarding for me. 337 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: How do you keep your energy your creativity up in 338 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 4: the most positive way when you're on the road, since 339 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 4: the road is can be difficult. 340 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: All I do on the road is train and walk 341 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: and eat and play shows and sleep. That's it. And 342 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: maybe you know, talk to my people every day obviously, 343 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: you know, talk to my talk to my family, you know, 344 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 2: but largely it's how narrow can I make this experience 345 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: and what variables cross over and help the other ones 346 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: the most. And for me, the more I train, the 347 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: better condition I'm in for the show. The more I rest, 348 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: the better I recover from the show, and the training 349 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: the more I eat, the more fuel. 350 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 3: I have for this show. 351 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: So it's kind of just this methodical you know, maybe 352 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: two methodical Jenga castle of I can't do everything right 353 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: now while I'm on the road. But if I can 354 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 2: put on the best show I possibly can every single 355 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 2: night and then still challenge myself in other ways while 356 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: I'm out, then it feels productive to me. 357 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 4: It sounds like you make every show as if it's 358 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 4: your last show. 359 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 3: You pour so much into it. 360 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: I we say a prayer before we go out every night, 361 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: and the theme of this tour, you know, because we've 362 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 2: played this set almost one hundred times now, the exact 363 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: same set, and so there's a temptation to go autopilot. 364 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: But then there's a reminder that I say during the 365 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: Prairie night, which is just like it doesn't matter whether 366 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: it's you know, the three hundred person show in New 367 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: Orleans or it's the other night in Salt Lake, which 368 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: is like twenty four hundred people. Everybody gets the same show. 369 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: Everybody deserves the same show. I came from a small town. 370 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 2: Not all the concerts of my favorite artists would even 371 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: pass through Dallas. A lot of artists ignored Dallas. I 372 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: was like, you know, people are showing up in these 373 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: places where it's even less common and more inconvenience to 374 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: get to a show, and it's not just baked into 375 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 2: a part of daily life like in these bigger cities. 376 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: They deserve the exact same show as the people in 377 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: the big cities, and often they're even more appreciative of it. 378 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: So it's a constant challenge myself to you twenty six 379 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: shows in a row. There are days where I when 380 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 2: I feel amazing, and then there are days when I don't. 381 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: But regardless, that shouldn't have an impact on the show 382 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: that people get or the experience they have. 383 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 4: You've had some great collaborations. I want you to maybe 384 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 4: talk about some of those people you've collaborated with, and 385 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 4: I want to ask you what do you look for 386 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 4: in a collaboration in a creative partner, for. 387 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: Somebody who challenges me and somebody who has complementary skill 388 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 2: sets that maybe I struggle with her have blind spots with. 389 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: My favorite collaborator who I'm working with extensively right now 390 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: is Rami Yakub, who is a brilliant, brilliant Swedish songwriter 391 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: and my one of my favorite humans in the world. 392 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 2: And he just has this common sense understanding of how 393 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 2: a song should be arranged and how the melody should 394 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: flow into each other, and how to build tension and 395 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 2: release and suspense and have shapes that are just iconic 396 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: within the song. And a lot of times I think 397 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: that can bring a sort of method to the madness 398 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 2: that is really solid from and really impressive from a 399 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: creative standpoint, and we just work really well together. So yeah, 400 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 2: I think I think it's challenged, and I think somebody 401 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: who maybe even sees the world in a different way, 402 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 2: because because if not, why why would I collaborate? You know, 403 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 2: like I could. I could write with myself all day, 404 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: but I'm only one me and I only have I 405 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: have my little narrow pinhole through which I view the world. 406 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: Why not bring in someone who's lived a different life. 407 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: Maybe we could challenge each other, Maybe we could have 408 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 2: a different perspective on the same thing and then those 409 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: things collide and make something fresh. 410 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 4: And how about a dream collaboration that would just, you know, 411 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 4: knock you out, man. 412 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: It might be like it might be like a really 413 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: fun camp at Shanger Law for the third album, like 414 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 2: a like Rick Rubin, but also bringing in all the 415 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: people I've looked up to, Like if it could be 416 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 2: a camp with like I don't know, like Rommy Bellian, 417 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: Rick freaking Jeff Basker, Barell like that. To me, it's 418 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: how many pots and pants can we bang together? And 419 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: like sent Decide was like all this stuff I grew 420 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: up on and then also just be around great which 421 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 2: that the thought of that even being possible is just 422 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: kind of crazy to me. 423 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 4: What do you hope listeners take away from your music? 424 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: I just want people to feel heard, and I don't 425 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: want I don't want people to feel as if their 426 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: unique internal experience separates them from the rest of the 427 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: world or from their potential. And I think you can 428 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: still create amazing and beautiful and profound things even if 429 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 2: you have something that you feel like slows you down. 430 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: And it's really really easy to compare and look at 431 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 2: other people and you can come up with one hundred 432 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: reasons you're not good enough. But if you look at 433 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: all the people that have made something exceptional, a lot 434 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 2: of them had a lot slowing them down, and sometimes 435 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: a lot more than us slowing them down. So I think, 436 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: you know, get out of your head, get into the world, 437 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 2: find what you love to do, and if my songs 438 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 2: could be a small part of empowering that, then that's 439 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: that's all I want to do. 440 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 4: Congratulations on the tour on a hometown to see the 441 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 4: story continues. 442 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: Thank you. I just I just have one last question. 443 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 4: When you're at the point when you're playing stadiums, would 444 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 4: you consider coming back on. 445 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: AR would absolutely just give me a call. 446 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 3: Thank you man, I really appreciate it. Living Stone's and 447 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 3: an honor. 448 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 2: Thank you boss, Thank you for your time. 449 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 450 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 451 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 452 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 453 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.