Speaker 1: Worrying. Today's episode contains spoilers for the season finally of Daredevil,
Speaker 1: Born Again Dward. Hello my name, it's Jason Gepsion, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to x Ray Vision of the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics of
Speaker 1: pop culture, Company from My Heart podcast, where we're bringing
Speaker 1: you three massive episodes of week listeners.
Speaker 2: In today's episode, Well we've made it here, guys.
Speaker 3: It's been years of drama reshoots, recasting, killing people, bringing
Speaker 3: them back.
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 3: Well, it's the Daredevil finale, and my, oh.
Speaker 2: My, it's gonna be an interesting conversation because.
Speaker 3: This is a divisive one, not just in the discord,
Speaker 3: but also in the production team.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. First, we open one year ago flashback.
Speaker 1: Vanessa goes to visit Dex in the mental War. Des
Speaker 1: is heavily drugged.
Speaker 2: Guys, can we give this matter break?
Speaker 1: I never thought I never thought I'd feel bad for Dex.
Speaker 1: But this is definitely a scene where you're like, God,
Speaker 1: this guy's, this horrific serial killer is getting exploited by
Speaker 1: this by Vanessa Viz.
Speaker 3: He's like, He's like, please, I don't want to fucking
Speaker 3: kill anyone.
Speaker 2: I just want to stay in jail, like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to do it. I don't want to Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, sorry, I've got your release. So
Speaker 1: she's like, listen, I'm getting your released and in return,
Speaker 1: I need you to kill two people, Ben Kofaro and
Speaker 1: his lawyer Foggy Nelson. They have information about my organization
Speaker 1: that cannot become public, and I need you to kill him.
Speaker 1: And Dex is like, ah, I'm not killing in here.
Speaker 1: I'm getting my medication. I don't want to do it,
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, you gotta fucking do it. You're
Speaker 1: doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also I like the way that she tries
Speaker 3: to sell it to him, like she's like, I need
Speaker 3: you to kill a thief.
Speaker 2: They're a bad person. You're doing something right. He just
Speaker 2: kills the whole family like chill out.
Speaker 1: He can barely sign his name to the release forms,
Speaker 1: that's how like medicated he is. We flash forward to
Speaker 1: the present. Matt's waking up in the hospital after being shot,
Speaker 1: you know, by Ben Poindexter. The bullet crazy to save
Speaker 1: Willson Fisk's life. For some reason, Heather and Kirsten are there.
Speaker 1: They tell him that Fisk is fine, and Matt is
Speaker 1: immediately like the foggy case, what's going on? Like that?
Speaker 1: That's why, that's what's going on. I need to find
Speaker 1: what are the documenting? Are there any documents looked over
Speaker 1: from that case? Like what do we know about that case?
Speaker 1: Fisk and Vinessa at home, still in their bloodstained getting
Speaker 1: real horny and like they are these two are freaks.
Speaker 1: I will say that, like they're horrendous people. But it's
Speaker 1: it's it is. There's something like touching about two people
Speaker 1: who find their person and certainly they are for each other.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's very it's very match my is somebody gonna
Speaker 3: match my freak? These twos freaks match, They love each other.
Speaker 3: They love a little horny like are you gonna assassinate me?
Speaker 2: Type situation? You know, but what can we say?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna how are you gonna try and kill me? Today?
Speaker 1: And so then Fisk basically says, in not so many
Speaker 1: words that he knows that Vanessa I pulls I to
Speaker 1: try and kill him, and honestly you can tell like
Speaker 1: he it turns him on a little bit. And then
Speaker 1: he tells Vanessa, you know here's here's what's up this
Speaker 1: port deal. It's gonna be we were stealing millions before.
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna be stealing billions through the billion billions billions.
Speaker 1: We made the big time.
Speaker 2: Baby.
Speaker 1: Matt, then in the hospital, explains his Foggy theory to
Speaker 1: Kirsten with the you know m you know mc alviani's
Speaker 1: and the whiskey, and he was drinking it to celebrate
Speaker 1: the whole thing. She said, well, Foggy was going to
Speaker 1: file emotion to dismiss. And he's like, where's the motion,
Speaker 1: where's the documents? Where are they? And Heather and Kirsten
Speaker 1: are like, Matt, you've just been you've just been shot.
Speaker 1: Could you go to bed? Fleas.
Speaker 3: My favorite part is like Heather is like so stressed
Speaker 3: at this point, she's in bed and the room massive bed,
Speaker 3: and she's like He's like, you know, fis She's like,
Speaker 3: why did you Guys Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get you're.
Speaker 3: Telling me he saved him so he could be the
Speaker 3: one to catch him. He's such a little batman.
Speaker 1: Same night, later the same night, everybody feel in their
Speaker 1: ballroom attire, and Fist calls a meeting of his whole
Speaker 1: political team. He is feeling in it. He is like
Speaker 1: in a flow stealing. He is like dirty cops, no
Speaker 1: more warrants, no more body cams, kill anybody you want
Speaker 1: on the snoot, We're doing no due process.
Speaker 2: We're rich seizing.
Speaker 1: It's something. It is really something when a comic book
Speaker 1: villain is written in such a way to seem insanely
Speaker 1: power mad, and then all of a sudden the real
Speaker 1: world rises to meet that standard.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, we were talking about this in
Speaker 3: regards to the Pit and how it's even that show
Speaker 3: is really a response to COVID, but it still feels
Speaker 3: relevant because a lot of people still have COVID and
Speaker 3: there's still bad, you know, bad business in the medical industry.
Speaker 3: And Noah Wyley's mom was a nurse, so she was
Speaker 3: calling him every time he watched she watched dr and
Speaker 3: being like this is wrong, so make it right. In
Speaker 3: the Pit and in this show, this show that has
Speaker 3: been in production for like four years, they did something
Speaker 3: where they told what I'm sure they.
Speaker 2: Felt it was so crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, crazy, But now you're watching it and you're like, Jesus,
Speaker 3: I know. Eric Adams just could wish that he was
Speaker 3: acting like Maphisk, like in public, like you know what's happening.
Speaker 1: So nobody cams no due process. Fisk is like, I
Speaker 1: want the city sealed, cut the bridges, uh, martial law everywhere. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: Buck is like, hey, some bad news, Boss Murroc is
Speaker 1: gonna live, and Fisk is like, well, wouldn't it be
Speaker 1: great if he didn't? What a better story that would
Speaker 1: have been killed Matt Murdoch, like a rabble rousing lawyer
Speaker 1: for the dispossessed and the powerless killed by a masked vigilante.
Speaker 1: Let's make it happen.
Speaker 3: Buck, He's like, He's also like come on, man, like
Speaker 3: just think about it. Isn't a dead hero better than
Speaker 3: alive vigilante?
Speaker 2: And I was like, man, that's a fucking good line.
Speaker 2: Like wow.
Speaker 1: Fisk then orders Sheila to snitch on the rest of
Speaker 1: the staff, and Sheila, I have to say, is has
Speaker 1: acted this entire series as if everything she's asked to
Speaker 1: do is like the worst thing, and she's just struggling
Speaker 1: with it so hard, and yet every time she folds.
Speaker 3: And does it yeah, which I find is a very
Speaker 3: interesting position because she's basically like, I'm beat than this.
Speaker 2: I would never do that, and then immediately goes and doesn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think she is a realistic representation kind
Speaker 3: of that white Lotus conversation we were having, like absolute
Speaker 3: power corrupts absolutely, Like Sheila is gonna sell these people
Speaker 3: out to save her own skin.
Speaker 1: So you know she's she's been told like, Okay, tell
Speaker 1: me who's not loyal in my organization and give me
Speaker 1: the names. Shila doesn't love it. Clearly you can tell
Speaker 1: by her face she doesn't love it. She leaves the office.
Speaker 1: Chief Gallo comes to her and is like, this is
Speaker 1: fucked up. This is crazy. We need to do something.
Speaker 1: You and I need to do something. I'm going to
Speaker 1: Albany and I'm gonna I can't call Albany. I have
Speaker 1: to go there personally and tell the governor and the
Speaker 1: state government in person that is planning to do on this.
Speaker 1: There's no way I could like call anybody else or
Speaker 1: send an email or text or call the New York
Speaker 1: Times or anything. I have to I have to go
Speaker 1: tomorrow in person.
Speaker 2: So is like, don't go.
Speaker 1: Not great. It's yeah, the Capitol district, that's not great,
Speaker 1: but listen, not great. No shots to Albany. Uh.
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: I at some delicious pet's are in Albany. But I
Speaker 3: do feel like it's weird all the way to Albany.
Speaker 1: He could have picked up a phone, but anyway, and
Speaker 1: She'll was like, I got your back. I'm gonna back
Speaker 1: you up. Uh Matt is you know it's been four
Speaker 1: hours since he was shot and he's lying in his
Speaker 1: hospital bed and power goes off across the whole city.
Speaker 1: And while that's happening, Matt hears through all the tumult
Speaker 1: and the craziness. He hears Buck Cashman entered the hospital like.
Speaker 3: Was it because they were playing killing me softly slowly
Speaker 3: over his and friends with Joel was not a fan.
Speaker 2: Of and we'll talk about like that.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. And so Matt is like, uh, oh,
Speaker 1: Buck Cashman's here kill me. I could hear him. I
Speaker 1: can smell him. I know he's in the building. He
Speaker 1: sneaks away, he sneaks home to his apartment and guess
Speaker 1: who's at his apartment. Frank Castle is broken. He was
Speaker 1: coming back and they argue, and they bicker back and forth,
Speaker 1: as they often do. Is like, well, you know, what's
Speaker 1: what's going on? Matt? And he says, listen, I'm here
Speaker 1: to help you. I don't want to help you. I
Speaker 1: don't like the way you do business. But you know what,
Speaker 1: Matt Murdoch, someone, some secret someone gave me a call
Speaker 1: and made me promise to help him. Reed to do it.
Speaker 1: Who is this person? Will find out soon. Frank then
Speaker 1: tell yeah, I wonder. Frank then tells Matt, listen, when
Speaker 1: the bad guys the Task Force get here and Buck
Speaker 1: Cashman maybe and whoever the Fiscus sending to kill you,
Speaker 1: I going to kill them, okay, And I don't want
Speaker 1: you to have it, just so, just so you know,
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with it. Okay, By the way,
Speaker 1: why did you take a bullet for Fisk? And Man
Speaker 1: is like, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: He's like at this point, I don't find know.
Speaker 3: Like I think did I think he did it because
Speaker 3: he's just completely out of it, like obviously.
Speaker 2: But also like he he killed Fisk.
Speaker 3: And I do think this is a very interesting part
Speaker 3: of how they explore Matt here. I think somewhere inside
Speaker 3: him he just killed him because it's like, that's that's
Speaker 3: my job.
Speaker 2: I'm dead devil.
Speaker 3: I take a bullet if somebody's getting shot, like and
Speaker 3: I think it was almost like a muscle memory, but
Speaker 3: also because he can't exist without Wilson Fisk. Dead devil
Speaker 3: didn't exist when Fisk went straight, Yeah, devolhood was off
Speaker 3: the streets, you know. So he needs him alive to
Speaker 3: justify what he is doing.
Speaker 1: I think he wants more than anything to expose Wilson
Speaker 1: Fisk in the eyes of the public, in the court
Speaker 1: of law, shine daylight on his operations, everybody look look
Speaker 1: at this guy, and not have him be killed and
Speaker 1: become like a martyr figure that other people were going
Speaker 1: to follow. I think that's what Mad is going for.
Speaker 1: So the task force arrives and it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a huge fight with Frank murder maybe cops left
Speaker 1: and right and left and right.
Speaker 2: If I got punishing logo on the chest, he's gotten him.
Speaker 1: With a guttnam. He's shooting him in the head. He's
Speaker 1: blowing them away with his shotgun.
Speaker 2: Frank.
Speaker 1: Matt is like, Frank, stop it, stop it, and Frank
Speaker 1: is just like no.
Speaker 2: Matt says that.
Speaker 3: But then he's also like hitting people in the head
Speaker 3: with Billy cops, like definitely causing some traumatic brain injuries.
Speaker 1: More on that in a bit, because Okay, so the
Speaker 1: fight is over. They've they've killed like a dozen Task
Speaker 1: Force guys and you know, incapacitated, maybe half a dozen
Speaker 1: eight more. Matt uses one of the Punisher inscribed bullet
Speaker 1: casings to id the copy killed Hector, and Mac gets
Speaker 1: really mad and he hits him full force in the
Speaker 1: hand with the Bully Club Billy Club like full American
Speaker 1: history xx curb stump. Yeah, level of molosity. This guy
Speaker 1: is fucking dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely dead or in a coma.
Speaker 3: And also as well, like I think that something that
Speaker 3: was very enticing to me is that this is the
Speaker 3: hardest we have ever seen any Punisher story kind of
Speaker 3: deal with the real.
Speaker 1: Life comics anywhere, not even in the comics.
Speaker 3: No, in the comics, it's like the change the logo,
Speaker 3: like we want to re we don't want it to
Speaker 3: be appropriated, blah bah blah. Here Matt, Matt and Frank
Speaker 3: do exactly what Frank would really do if he was
Speaker 3: a real past and which is kill a ton of
Speaker 3: fucking cops because they have taken this thing that means
Speaker 3: something to him. And we get a great little kind
Speaker 3: of teaser of how Frank feels about it in la
Speaker 3: a scene.
Speaker 1: So Frank is like, you know, Matt really wax this
Speaker 1: guy in the head. And there's that like aluminum baseball
Speaker 1: bat sound. The cops slumps. Frank is like, yeah, yeah, Red,
Speaker 1: get him, Red, don't stop now get him and then
Speaker 1: and then Matt's clearly not gonna keep going from I'll
Speaker 1: do it. And then Matt, this is three Stooges level funny.
Speaker 1: I laughed out loud. Matt is like, Frank, don't do
Speaker 1: don't kill We'll just stop killing cops. And Frank is like, oh,
Speaker 1: he'd be like this, Red, he just shoots a different guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. He goes like this,
Speaker 2: He's like you He's like, he's like, oh, you don't
Speaker 2: you don't want me to shoot this cop? How about that?
Speaker 3: Don't just kill him? And then they are bickering out.
Speaker 3: Now that chemistry is so good.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's like get a room, you two. So they're
Speaker 1: just now they're just bickering back and forth, arguing, and
Speaker 1: then Matt's like, wait, hold on, Frank, shut up. There's
Speaker 1: a grenade that's just been thrown in this part of
Speaker 1: somewhere head like you're So they dive out the window
Speaker 1: with incredible Matt clearly, you know, using his Billy club
Speaker 1: winch to to allow them to break their fall, and
Speaker 1: they survive. A car pulls up as as Matt's apartment explodes.
Speaker 1: It's Karen. Karen is the one who called Frank. They
Speaker 1: go back to Frank's apartment or subterranean like dungeon whatever,
Speaker 1: These bumper under an apartment building, and I gotta say
Speaker 1: immediately there's chemistry between Frank and Karen hold On.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you remember the Punisher series from Netflix,
Speaker 3: they were definitely trying to establ bish some kind of
Speaker 3: they romantic connection. But I don't know that the chemistry
Speaker 3: was as palpable as just in this tiny scene, like
Speaker 3: really taped up. Karen is the one who called Frank.
Speaker 3: They clearly talk to each other a lot. They know
Speaker 3: how they like each other's coffee. Like this is obviously
Speaker 3: a thing that not just us but Matt consents to.
Speaker 3: And honestly, he's love triangle, you know, mate is how.
Speaker 1: You know Matt is smelling it. He's like hearing the elevator.
Speaker 2: He's such a little creeper, Like, don't do that, Matthew.
Speaker 2: It's weird.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Karen is definitely, like I can save Frank Castle,
Speaker 1: like I can reach him his inner child, Like I
Speaker 1: can save that little boy. Matt then tells Karen, hey,
Speaker 1: Vanessa is the one who killed Foggy. It was about
Speaker 1: the case. What's going on with that case? Where can
Speaker 1: we find the documents? And Karen is like, oh, I
Speaker 1: know where we put all the documents from all you know,
Speaker 1: our former you know, Murdoch and Sing and Matthew should
Speaker 1: have made she like, I know where all of that
Speaker 1: that stuff is archived. Let's go get it.
Speaker 3: And it's because she was just that, she was basically
Speaker 3: just a secretary. So she's like, I know where all
Speaker 3: the important don't keep us off.
Speaker 2: That's the most important job in the lawyer's office. She
Speaker 2: can find that for you.
Speaker 1: And she still can apparently, so she and as she's
Speaker 1: leaving the shares a little moment with Frank where she's like,
Speaker 1: I know, Frank, I know you want to do the
Speaker 1: right thing. Don't at like you don't want to do
Speaker 1: the right thing. You want to be a good guy.
Speaker 1: Don't pretend like this mister tough guy. And Frank's making
Speaker 1: his like fucking instant coffee black with no no cream,
Speaker 1: and he's like just says nothing as she leaves, and
Speaker 1: then he's like to himself, be careful good, which is
Speaker 1: like okay, and that's basically like marry me Karen, like
Speaker 1: for Frank. Basically, then, uh, there's this really this series
Speaker 1: we've talked about it before is so silly in ways
Speaker 1: that I find really entertaining. I thinks like a come
Speaker 1: feels exactly like a collar book. Everything we've just described
Speaker 1: is like silly in that way. And it continues. We
Speaker 1: get a great scene where Daniel and Buck go and
Speaker 1: shake down the city council with you know, young Gandalfini
Speaker 1: basically playing like our version of his dad was like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: he just do Yeah, yeah, hey, you're I'm talking about
Speaker 1: the real estate investments in Kip Bay. kIPS Bay fifteen
Speaker 1: million dollars is pretty good, you know, pretty I think
Speaker 1: you might want to cut the you might want to
Speaker 1: cut the mayor in on that. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Let's get a you know, I'll have my people be
Speaker 1: in touch. Well, cut us in on that. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Okay, get.
Speaker 2: Out of here.
Speaker 1: Outside again, it's the powers out. So it's things are
Speaker 1: devolving into some looting and tops meanwhile, or just shooting
Speaker 1: the looters and then and then taking like their turtlenecks
Speaker 1: and like pulling the turtleneck like over the face, the nose,
Speaker 1: mouth and being like, hey, a mask vigile anthea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Matt and Karen go to the storage facility and they're
Speaker 1: going down memory lane digging in these dusty crates. Karen
Speaker 1: finds the thing that foggy and fat and this is
Speaker 1: this is like national treasure level. This is so funny
Speaker 1: and silly to be. It's the original like eighteen forties
Speaker 1: deed to the fun to the Port of red Hook,
Speaker 1: apparently the only copy in existence that no one knows about.
Speaker 1: It's impossible by any other means to find out the
Speaker 1: legal status of the Port of Red Hook, and.
Speaker 2: Which is hilarious because you could definitely just google that
Speaker 2: without I have done it.
Speaker 1: Without this piece of parchment, is impossible to unlock the
Speaker 1: mystery subably on. Yeah. So what this document says is
Speaker 1: the port is actually not under New York State or
Speaker 1: in you York City's jurisdiction. It's like free land. It's
Speaker 1: a free territory, and so whoever controls it like can
Speaker 1: make the laws. It's like true, it's sovereign territory. It's
Speaker 1: basically like what we discovered is Fisk plans to basically
Speaker 1: set up Madpor.
Speaker 2: In New York City, exactly.
Speaker 1: In Red Hook. That's gonna be like personal kingdom. And
Speaker 1: like the US Governor just be like, I don't know, get.
Speaker 2: Legally, we can't do this.
Speaker 3: This parchment, this parchment says and I'm sorry, guys, so hilarious.
Speaker 2: I love this. I also love there's like something I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I love it because it is also a book.
Speaker 2: But there's also.
Speaker 3: Something about this notion of the ports and these ideas
Speaker 3: of like what comes in and out of them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like living I live by the ports of la there's
Speaker 3: always some kind of.
Speaker 1: Corruption and scandal.
Speaker 3: And I just love that this like very what seems
Speaker 3: like a very niche plot is actually like really real
Speaker 3: if you live by a port. But obviously the parchment
Speaker 3: saying that you could just start madropor that not real. Guys,
Speaker 3: sorry to tell you that. But I love fisks plan.
Speaker 3: He's deranged. I love how he's bought Vanessa into it
Speaker 3: by basically being.
Speaker 2: Like, hey, you already did the great work. Now let's
Speaker 2: just build on it.
Speaker 3: Like behind every man is a strong, powerful, corrupt woman
Speaker 3: named Vanessa. So I love this and I love that
Speaker 3: little mini Madriport plan, Like why not if you can
Speaker 3: just plan?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, love that for you guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Frank is in his layer and he hears on
Speaker 1: the police scanner that the task force is heading to
Speaker 1: Red Hook like in force. So he's like, oh, time
Speaker 1: to kill some dirty cops. He gets geared up and
Speaker 1: he gets over there and he does his thing. He's
Speaker 1: like cutting guys throats, he's shooting guys. But in the
Speaker 1: end there's there's simply too many of them. The task
Speaker 1: forse is a lot bigger in just a couple of
Speaker 1: days than we ever than we expected. And they dog
Speaker 1: pile him and then they don't kill him. They just
Speaker 1: take him prisoner.
Speaker 3: Stupid plan, by the way, I get it. It's kill it,
Speaker 3: you can't kill him. And also as well, it's like
Speaker 3: casting body armor, because this is still some of the
Speaker 3: best casting in the whole of the MCU Ben Thalla
Speaker 3: as Punisher, So yeah, I thought that was really funny.
Speaker 3: I think, and this is something I'm sure Joe will
Speaker 3: touch on when when she joins us. But like I
Speaker 3: do think, like there's something there where. When this happened,
Speaker 3: I was like, well, maybe the reason they don't kill
Speaker 3: him is because, like they fucking love the punisher like
Speaker 3: they want to they do I love and they have
Speaker 3: the body armor and everything. But I don't know whether
Speaker 3: that gets extrapolated enough for me to say that's definitely
Speaker 3: why they don't kill him.
Speaker 2: But that was my thought in the moment as we
Speaker 2: watched it.
Speaker 1: Uh Fisk listens to rat Sheila's recording of Gallow that
Speaker 1: she made a rat. What a little piece of vermin.
Speaker 1: She is, hor jodling, sniveling, boot licking rat.
Speaker 2: She definitely not.
Speaker 3: Think that she was going to go to the like
Speaker 3: wearing a wire aka recording on her phone. I thought
Speaker 3: she was just gonna actually go around and be like, hey,
Speaker 3: if you're not in the Fisk deal, go away. You
Speaker 3: might go somewhere. You might want to also go somewhere
Speaker 3: that's not in New York State. It'll probably be harder
Speaker 3: for them to find you. But no, she was just like,
Speaker 3: guess I better just just record this guy her.
Speaker 1: Shockingly snitchy So Gallo is delivered to Red Hook by
Speaker 1: members of the Task Force, where apparently no laws are
Speaker 1: enforced and and Fisk can commit murder after murder here
Speaker 1: and nobody could do anything because it's like freaking Sois
Speaker 1: then crushes Gallow's head like a rotten pumpkin as the
Speaker 1: task Force looks on, and you could tell the task.
Speaker 2: Force is on. It was cral practical, a like I was.
Speaker 3: They took the level of violence once Frank came back
Speaker 3: in this episode. They're like, you're gonna get Gord out,
Speaker 3: but I did not expect a full prosthetic head, which
Speaker 3: he squashes like a pumpkin and then tears off his jaw,
Speaker 3: like it's probably the most violent and grotesque thing we
Speaker 3: have seen or will ever see in an MCU show.
Speaker 3: It's I don't think they had anything like that on that.
Speaker 1: And the task Force is like, wow, we're fucking sick, motherfuckers,
Speaker 1: but that was crazy. That was disgusting, Dirty cop Powell.
Speaker 1: Then elsewhere on Red Hook are like, is they've got
Speaker 1: Frank tied to a chair and he goes down on
Speaker 1: one knees, like, Frank, we fucking idolize you. You're the best.
Speaker 1: We love the way you kill people without due process
Speaker 1: and like we just want.
Speaker 2: To be thank you man.
Speaker 1: Will you join the task Force and be like part
Speaker 1: of this. It would be like our utter dream if
Speaker 1: that was the case. In Frank's like, you guys are
Speaker 1: fucking clowns. You guys are losers. Yeah, and then the
Speaker 1: test or beats the shit out of him. Daredevil and
Speaker 1: Karen arrive. It has been maybe six or seven hours
Speaker 1: since Matt was shot in the shoulders. Had He's been
Speaker 1: in a in a huge Donnybrook fight in which like
Speaker 1: a dozen cops were killed, and now he's here on
Speaker 1: the verge of Red Hook. He's looking they you know,
Speaker 1: they look at the scene and there's like, maybe I
Speaker 1: don't know, fifty sixty Task Force guys there, like it's
Speaker 1: crawling with task FORRSE guys. And Karen is like, you can't, Matt,
Speaker 1: look at you. You're a mess. You you need water,
Speaker 1: you need probably to eat something.
Speaker 2: You need to sleep.
Speaker 1: You need to sleep. You were shot six hours ago.
Speaker 1: Don't go in there. You can't take them on.
Speaker 2: And Matt is like, don't do it, Matt.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Matt is like, you know what, You're right, You're right.
Speaker 1: Heather goes to see Fisk brush shocking, and.
Speaker 3: I'm so sick of Heather at this point, like to
Speaker 3: be mayfair.
Speaker 2: Look either just dump Matt and gone, I'm Wilson Fisk.
Speaker 3: But don't do this like in the middle, like Matt
Speaker 3: is telling you, look, you eat the Sure Matt's acting crazy, but.
Speaker 2: Is he your boyfriend? Are you a right or no?
Speaker 1: So Fiscus, Well there's other issues too, Listen, I get it.
Speaker 1: This is a huge career move from Heather, who doesn't
Speaker 1: you could argue doesn't necessarily know what fisc is up to,
Speaker 1: and true gravity Matt has never leveled with her at all.
Speaker 1: That But that said, like I feel like, ethically, you
Speaker 1: can't go to work for your patient.
Speaker 2: Right exactly what I mean? I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: she is a serious person. No ship she pretends. She
Speaker 2: pretends to be like, oh, I'm such a big therapist.
Speaker 3: Oh I just I have to be therapizing everybody, Matt,
Speaker 3: why are you doing this?
Speaker 2: Go to therapy. But then she's just like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: go to the ball of my marriage.
Speaker 3: And by the way, I just saw my marriage counsel
Speaker 3: couple get shot and now I'm gonna be old of
Speaker 3: mental health.
Speaker 1: Right mental health commission. So she signs on. Then again
Speaker 1: it's the same twenty four hour period. This is now
Speaker 1: the morning after the Black and White Ball, Fisk makes
Speaker 1: a speech on television where he says Commissioner Gallo has resigned.
Speaker 1: He fled, he fled from his duty. He couldn't handle it.
Speaker 1: Don't ask where he is, don't hopefully nobody ever looks
Speaker 1: for him. And then he announces his new anti crime
Speaker 1: edict where he says vigilantes are outlawed and the city's
Speaker 1: under martial law. That's it, eight pm, don't be out
Speaker 1: after the city that never sleeps. Well, guess what.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like eight pm. Nobody in New York
Speaker 2: because he even left the house at.
Speaker 3: Eight pm, Like you gonna be going, You'll go to
Speaker 3: dinner at like ten, Matt being in Europe.
Speaker 1: Matt. Then you know, back to Matt and Karen. Matt
Speaker 1: makes again. Here's here's a piece of dialogue that made
Speaker 1: me laugh out loud. Matt serious like opening himself up,
Speaker 1: very vulnerable, like showing showing.
Speaker 2: An impression, doing impression.
Speaker 1: Karen.
Speaker 2: I can't do it.
Speaker 1: I can't do it. But he basically it was too fisky.
Speaker 1: But he basically admits to Karen, He's like, listen, you
Speaker 1: know what I remember when on the night that Foggy
Speaker 1: was killed. When I dropped Benjamin Poindexter on his head
Speaker 1: off a building, off a six story building, I have
Speaker 1: a big admission to make. I was trying to kill him,
Speaker 1: no ship, you dropped him off.
Speaker 3: And by the way, like not just that you didn't
Speaker 3: use your little spiderweb Winch likes to stop him fing
Speaker 3: trying to kill him off.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize.
Speaker 3: And even Batman, if he throws someone off a roof,
Speaker 3: will usually like book him with a little less sue
Speaker 3: and lumps like you just let that man have full
Speaker 3: head first into the ground. He's a miracle. He's still alive.
Speaker 3: Dex has been going through. It's a miracle he didn't
Speaker 3: fucking shoot you. Yeah, and I don't think that Karen
Speaker 3: is probably surprised to hear this.
Speaker 1: Karen, then, I think makes actually a good what I
Speaker 1: thought was like a really good speech in this series.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like this interaction between the two.
Speaker 1: About how listen, you're still the good guy basically and
Speaker 1: the city needs you. And yes, you you cross the
Speaker 1: line when you tried to kill Benjamin Poindexter, but like
Speaker 1: you but the fact that you know the line is
Speaker 1: there and you try to respect. It is why the
Speaker 1: city needs you. And then we get a Radiohead music
Speaker 1: drop and we we kind of end with Fisk triumphant.
Speaker 1: We watch him like strolling through his castle and Red
Speaker 1: Hook where he's got like all these people imprisoned in cages,
Speaker 1: including Jack's Swordsman Duquine and front Castle.
Speaker 3: Jack.
Speaker 2: He was such a good step He's the only vigilante
Speaker 2: that Wilsons still.
Speaker 3: So he was like, and you know what else, I
Speaker 3: think this confirms something that we had kind of been.
Speaker 3: I think the show had specifically wanted us to be
Speaker 3: a little blurry on, which is like the basement that
Speaker 3: he was holding Vanessa's lover in, was this basement in
Speaker 3: Red Hook, like he's that's always It wasn't like under
Speaker 3: his office or whatever. This is his little prison basement
Speaker 3: that he's been building. And I'm getting we are also
Speaker 3: probably to assume that there are more there's more vigilantes
Speaker 3: in there than we know.
Speaker 1: Right, So he's got all these people in cages, which
Speaker 1: again like eerie parallels where and physical go down like
Speaker 1: under the to like blow where the cages are now,
Speaker 1: I think down to where like Adam's cage was. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking yeah, and they have a sumptuous meal
Speaker 1: with champagne. They're back, baby.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be fucking at Adam's change.
Speaker 1: Before then, though, we're gonna be fucking in Adam's cage.
Speaker 1: And then we get a little stinger where listen. If
Speaker 1: there's one thing we know about Frank Castle in the
Speaker 1: comic books is this man escapes from prisons every day.
Speaker 2: He's like the joker, like you, there's no point in
Speaker 2: putting him an Alkhama asylum. He's gonna get out.
Speaker 1: Noble shit like. There's gotta be eight to ten instances
Speaker 1: in the comics notable instances of him, including the you
Speaker 1: Know when he was originally put in prison because I forget,
Speaker 1: the creative team of Spider Man just didn't thought he
Speaker 1: was a villain, didn't like him.
Speaker 2: So it didn't make sense to have him in the.
Speaker 1: His launch to the you Know comics continuity proper was
Speaker 1: started by him basically escaping.
Speaker 3: From you yeah so and being in prison with you
Speaker 3: know and being in a Spider Man comic, which is
Speaker 3: something we will talk about very soon because where the
Speaker 3: fuck is Spider Man?
Speaker 1: So Frank is like, hey, what what you officer? And
Speaker 1: I forget the name of the officer, and the guy's Patrucci.
Speaker 2: Pucci. My name is where you from?
Speaker 1: Way from? Officer Patrucci? Yeah, where we are you from?
Speaker 1: I'm from New Jersey? Oh yeah, yeah, I love you.
Speaker 1: I used to go down to the shore. I love Jersey.
Speaker 1: Hey here, let me ask you something, Patrucia. And then
Speaker 1: he like grabs his arm and fucking snaps it and
Speaker 1: clear He's like, let me thank you.
Speaker 2: For your service. And I'm like, come on, bro, like
Speaker 2: I'm so dumb.
Speaker 3: Let me reach in the snaps that man's arm right off,
Speaker 3: and then.
Speaker 2: Frank is out.
Speaker 3: Baby, you ain't keep it Frank in there. No, he's
Speaker 3: not gonna help anyone else cow either.
Speaker 1: By the way, I think Frank is gonna be like, hey, Red,
Speaker 1: let me get distrained. I show up at your apartment
Speaker 1: to save you from the task Force, and you can't
Speaker 1: even come and break me out of Red Hook fucking
Speaker 1: hours after you got shot and fight cops.
Speaker 3: Frank exactly is that Frank has a good point, because Babe,
Speaker 3: we know that Matt is not resting, like Matt is
Speaker 3: doing things to save your friend.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be an issue next season. That is gonna
Speaker 1: be an argue. Let's take a quick break, we'll be
Speaker 1: back and talk more about this.
Speaker 4: Episode, and we are back.
Speaker 1: I I thought it was a very satisfying finale. Obviously
Speaker 1: an up and down season with a lot of disjointedness
Speaker 1: because of one would imagine the various disruptions to the
Speaker 1: production and the fact that they had to, like Frankenstein,
Speaker 1: a bunch of this stuff together. But listen, something about
Speaker 1: Matt and frank tearing through like corruption in a visceral way.
Speaker 1: I found very cathartic in today's the Life and Times,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that I I and I will hardly
Speaker 1: admit that there were plot problems, emotional art problems, characters
Speaker 1: who were barely drawn as characters. I loved the little
Speaker 1: cameo of Detective cam aka the only detective in New
Speaker 1: York City at the at Josie's Bar, with the rest
Speaker 1: of the constituents looking at Matt like will you save us?
Speaker 1: But that said, like I found it, I found it satisfying.
Speaker 1: But I know that our super producer Joelle feels different.
Speaker 3: Tell us Joel, because I too found it to be
Speaker 3: like a satisfying ending, but that this there's something very
Speaker 3: punchy and like comic bookie about the season that for
Speaker 3: me really watched. Will tell us your feelings on the finale.
Speaker 5: Okay, I want to start by seeing I've been rocking
Speaker 5: with this show the whole time. I have been enjoying it.
Speaker 5: I am not just hey, you you've been.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you've been, you've been.
Speaker 5: I thought I was having fun. Okay, it was like, man,
Speaker 5: to Jason's point, it's really comic, bookie, this is fun.
Speaker 5: To Rosy's point, love seeing the cops take it like
Speaker 5: straight in the face. It's great. I struggle with this
Speaker 5: ending because and maybe this is too much insider baseball,
Speaker 5: but we understood like okay, they were patching things together
Speaker 5: in the middle, but like this final episode was like
Speaker 5: this is all new because all stuff we had can
Speaker 5: throw it. So I thought we were going to create
Speaker 5: into a great finale and there were so many great setups.
Speaker 5: I really have been enjoying the Wilson and Vanessa like
Speaker 5: back and forth, but the dinner didn't feel earned this episode.
Speaker 5: It's like, yes, you guys got away with some stuff.
Speaker 5: You had tried a lot.
Speaker 1: Of things.
Speaker 5: Throughout, but now you're you're feasting, but like, did you
Speaker 5: really win? Like things around your heels. It didn't real
Speaker 5: seem like you. I don't know, it felt quite unearned
Speaker 5: to me. And then I also just had, like I
Speaker 5: thought the fight scene, particularly the one in Daredevil's apartment
Speaker 5: with h punishuring him versus the cops on my television,
Speaker 5: and it's been calibrated by an a FI cinematographer, and
Speaker 5: I haven't had trouble seeing anything since the finale of
Speaker 5: Game of Thrones. It is dark, man. It is like
Speaker 5: really hard to see in Super Muddy, which I didn't understand.
Speaker 5: I thought, not as well choreographed as we're used to
Speaker 5: seeing a like great Daredevil fight, even just a Marvel fight.
Speaker 5: Marvel has consistently delivered on really great fights, even when
Speaker 5: narrative suffers. So to have it here be so messy
Speaker 5: in a finale that you had already been like, we're reshooting,
Speaker 5: We're to spend all this money. I was confused as
Speaker 5: to the choices. I'll also say, and then I'll let
Speaker 5: Aarin jump in with some positives. Is like every black
Speaker 5: woman in this show written terribly. Let's let's really fix that.
Speaker 1: In part two, saynary characters in general very well. I
Speaker 1: really did disappear.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what like.
Speaker 5: So first of all, you have BB in the Mayor's
Speaker 5: office as we see her for two seconds. He's there
Speaker 5: where all this action has happened, and we don't get
Speaker 5: to see her like sleuthing and detectiving, Like why why
Speaker 5: why is she here?
Speaker 2: What's going on with us? She should be like she's
Speaker 2: like on Nancy Drew, Like please let her be that
Speaker 2: in season two?
Speaker 5: And who's the like bodyguard guy I like to call
Speaker 5: him Bowser Browser Buck is out here and I wish
Speaker 5: I understood, like what his agenda was. I was understood
Speaker 5: what Buck got out of any of this? Like is he.
Speaker 2: I think?
Speaker 3: I think lots of money. I think just gives everyone
Speaker 3: lots of money.
Speaker 1: That's not what he does. He loves he loves being
Speaker 1: adjacent to power.
Speaker 2: I don't think it needs but that's what I.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you, we don't know much about him.
Speaker 5: I think a lot of the setups in this show
Speaker 5: are so powerful. To your guys' point, when they put
Speaker 5: Punisher in a chair in front of a bunch of
Speaker 5: cops with his logo on their chest, I was filming
Speaker 5: about I'll here we go. He's about to get it
Speaker 5: to them he got laid in, and to be fair,
Speaker 5: he does that when pisani if you were in fire,
Speaker 5: which seems like a grade school comeback. I just think
Speaker 5: we've seen him deliver. How we know the power of
Speaker 5: John Berenthal. We know the power of this character, and
Speaker 5: the camera is on him, So in my opinion, we
Speaker 5: should be learning more about him, or he should be
Speaker 5: having a discovery of like, oh my god, I'm implicit
Speaker 5: somewhat to how these cops are behaving. Oh my god,
Speaker 5: am I any better than these cops? I do what
Speaker 5: they're doing. It discuss me why are my actions to
Speaker 5: be different? But he doesn't get a chage a character.
Speaker 5: He says things we've heard him say a bunch of
Speaker 5: times before, and because we can't see the cops faces,
Speaker 5: we're not sure what this hero worship has done being
Speaker 5: denied has done to them, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: And so therefore there's nothing happens and then care he
Speaker 5: should be dextaposed against.
Speaker 2: I think that you. I understand your point.
Speaker 3: We talked about this, like yeah, if Mike too, but
Speaker 3: like I personally feel like I think the dismissiveness of
Speaker 3: Frank to them where he's basically like you idolizing me
Speaker 3: is fucking stupid because I'm a fucked up person and
Speaker 3: I'm broken, and also your bunch of fucking clowns. And
Speaker 3: I think that I loved the dismissive nature where he
Speaker 3: is basically just like you could never comprehend what drives
Speaker 3: me so and whatever drives you is bullshit and it
Speaker 3: worked for me. But I do know like that with
Speaker 3: this episode did not have any like banger monologues, and
Speaker 3: this show has had those in the past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I acknowledge your take, and I don't think it's
Speaker 1: necessarily wrong, but why it But for me, why those
Speaker 1: things worked are won And again I said this before
Speaker 1: we went on, Mike, I do feel like Frank ripping
Speaker 1: out the throats of multiple dirty cops wearing his logo communicates,
Speaker 1: I think pretty strongly like any feelings he might have.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like we get so much of
Speaker 1: the how do you feel about them? Using your logo
Speaker 1: so conversations between him and Matt, and that's really where Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I feel like Frank would entertain even touching upon
Speaker 1: a topic like that, having that kind of self reflection.
Speaker 1: He's not a self reflective guy and not one to
Speaker 1: ever explain his rage, but he kind of goes there
Speaker 1: with Matt and it it felt natural to me that
Speaker 1: he wouldn't go there with a bunch of cops who
Speaker 1: he clearly despises, seeing as how he just like killed
Speaker 1: a dozen of them.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I also do think that the time jump of it all,
Speaker 3: it puts us into a situation. And I've been thinking
Speaker 3: about this because of our Last of Us episode one,
Speaker 3: season two chat, which you guys will be able to
Speaker 3: hear when the show comes out. But I was thinking
Speaker 3: about like the nature of what we don't see, And
Speaker 3: I do think that when it is first introduced that
Speaker 3: the cops have taken on this punish a gang in
Speaker 3: the episode and Matt goes to see Frank and he
Speaker 3: shows him.
Speaker 2: The bullet, it's clear that this.
Speaker 3: Has been happening to Frank for a while, Like he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: fucking lose a fanboys, Like there's something we didn't see
Speaker 3: there where I think he has reckoned with this, and
Speaker 3: his reckoning is fuck them.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna that's my point.
Speaker 5: You have to guess though You're like, oh, well, if
Speaker 5: I put you into this, and I'm like, you, we
Speaker 5: should see that that should be inherent within the show.
Speaker 5: This is important to the character, defines them, it defines Yeah,
Speaker 5: this moment, and I think that was really my big point.
Speaker 5: Like I love the setups of loving, I love the
Speaker 5: end choices. I love when the villain wins is the end.
Speaker 5: I love that Karen came back. I just think how
Speaker 5: like how much time we spent on things like Heather,
Speaker 5: Oh my god, Heather, I do I'm not gonna lie easy.
Speaker 5: I love this woman, and yet I don't understand her
Speaker 5: relationship to fis, like where does this loyalty come from?
Speaker 1: When did that lock in? And why she's just looking
Speaker 1: at it. She's ambitious, She's like what sees I don't
Speaker 1: see multiple books. That's not I've never known an author.
Speaker 1: It's particularly a self help style author who didn't want
Speaker 1: to go doctor Oz.
Speaker 2: Sadly that.
Speaker 5: Tiny side moments of like after a session, like oh oh,
Speaker 5: we read your book and we loved it. We're gonna
Speaker 5: recommend it to a friend.
Speaker 1: Bam. Okay.
Speaker 5: I understand from the reaction on her face she's super
Speaker 5: excited about this information. There's a lack of information being
Speaker 5: delivered to the audience so that you have to guess
Speaker 5: and assume and that's not as fun for me. I
Speaker 5: don't love it.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally feel that Again, I do,
Speaker 3: I feel like specifically for my I mean, this is
Speaker 3: something else we talked about before we've started recording the
Speaker 3: episode that I would love to dig into more at
Speaker 3: some point, which is kind of like what does it
Speaker 3: mean to be a Prestige TV show now? And like
Speaker 3: this is so different to what Prestige used to be
Speaker 3: And I don't necessarily think this is Prestige TV. But
Speaker 3: for me, there's something about the pacing, the way that
Speaker 3: it kind of I will say trusts the audience with
Speaker 3: in the comments, because I do think you're right, Joel.
Speaker 3: I think some of it is, like you, they just
Speaker 3: didn't have time and so you're left to put pieces together.
Speaker 3: But there's something about the pacing and the urgency and
Speaker 3: the kind of simplicity that does really remind me of
Speaker 3: the feeling of reading a comic book, the same way
Speaker 3: that very fairly in the discord, when I called out
Speaker 3: my feelings about Karen in the first kind of Netflix era,
Speaker 3: a lot of people were like, Hey, she doesn't really
Speaker 3: get that much more in the comics, like they're actually
Speaker 3: giving her a lot more to do here. So I
Speaker 3: think it's one of those interesting dichotomies. But for me, overall,
Speaker 3: it did work.
Speaker 2: Aaron, how about you.
Speaker 6: I mean, I thought that the last two episodes were
Speaker 6: really fun, and I thought this one Joey. I said
Speaker 6: this to Joelle earlier too. I feel like Joelle was
Speaker 6: disappointed in the things that she wanted and didn't get,
Speaker 6: whereas I was very excited and happy about the things
Speaker 6: I didn't expect and then did get.
Speaker 3: And so, for instance, okay, what were the things you
Speaker 3: didn't I mean you and that you did get.
Speaker 6: I didn't expect Matt to come home and have punish
Speaker 6: her in there and have them do like an old
Speaker 6: married couple bantering back and forth earth where he's like,
Speaker 6: you're gonna do the fight with your ass out and
Speaker 6: then he flicks them off. I mean, like just amazing
Speaker 6: back and forth between the two of them. And then
Speaker 6: I got shotgun, you know, like I loved all of
Speaker 6: that stuff between.
Speaker 3: Them, and I think that that that chemistry is so vital.
Speaker 2: Really, I will say, you do wish there was.
Speaker 3: More of it again, which could have given them more
Speaker 3: time to have those conversations like Joel kind.
Speaker 6: Of yeah, but I also, I mean in response to Joelle,
Speaker 6: no offense, but you're wrong, friend.
Speaker 2: I didn't need.
Speaker 5: It.
Speaker 6: I don't need like after Frank was withholding with Karen,
Speaker 6: someone who he ostensibly loves, and we are really into
Speaker 6: that relationship.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 6: What makes me think that if he's like pinned up
Speaker 6: against the wall by fourteen different scummy cops who are
Speaker 6: wearing his logo, that he's gonna be like, you know what, guys,
Speaker 6: I gotta give you a piece of my mind because.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't kill people, and he doesn't.
Speaker 6: That's why he just fucking killed him, and he just
Speaker 6: when he's tied to it, yeah, then he's like, I'm
Speaker 6: not even giving you the time of day for that.
Speaker 2: I love this so much because this is this is why.
Speaker 3: We do this podcast, is because we love this stuff
Speaker 3: so deeply that it becomes this really fun thing while
Speaker 3: you get to critique, well didn't work, like talk about
Speaker 3: what works. And I think that's like why we love it.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot I will admit, like we're great,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm certainly like personally grading and
Speaker 1: on a curve for a variety of reasons that I've
Speaker 1: talked about all throughout, But I think one of the
Speaker 1: other things that I really like about that, and I
Speaker 1: find very promising about the execution of dared Evil Born Again,
Speaker 1: is that it suggests that, you know, Disney TV, Marvel,
Speaker 1: Level TV, the street level heroes are going to like
Speaker 1: go there in a way that the movies are not.
Speaker 1: They're going to be more violent, they're going to take on,
Speaker 1: you know, different kinds of subject matter. They're going to
Speaker 1: take on more hard hitting kind of story topics, and
Speaker 1: they're gonna do it in a way where, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's because they're kind of under the radar and
Speaker 1: don't get the kind of attention that the movies get
Speaker 1: with all the conversation about like di and Woke and
Speaker 1: who should be cast in what and what does this carry?
Speaker 1: You know, I think the fact that they're kind of
Speaker 1: below that conversation, if that's what allows them to have
Speaker 1: the freedom to just to you know, depict Wilson Fisk
Speaker 1: as basically like red Hook, Dictator Trump, Like okay, Like
Speaker 1: I'm for it, Like I hope that the rest of
Speaker 1: their street level stuff hits as hard as this, as
Speaker 1: imperfect as it clearly was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and I do think as well, we
Speaker 3: are living in an age where a lot of the
Speaker 3: radical nature and analogous name of superheroes has been lost,
Speaker 3: and I think that's why for me, even if it's
Speaker 3: something that's not necessarily intentional, like the way that The
Speaker 3: Suicide Squad felt like a film about prison labor, prisoner exploitation,
Speaker 3: and like a story about the harms and horrors of
Speaker 3: war and America's colonialism, and that might not have been
Speaker 3: and I spoke to him about it the intention of
Speaker 3: what James Gum made, but to me, it spoke to me.
Speaker 2: And I do think that on that level, the fact
Speaker 2: that this.
Speaker 3: Show can make I mean, look, you know me, I'm
Speaker 3: a the Batman number one superstate, right, but this movie, I.
Speaker 2: Think actually because I was correct ish.
Speaker 3: You know, if we talk about predictions, I definitely was
Speaker 3: feeling like there was going to be some kind of
Speaker 3: good cop team, but.
Speaker 2: Even then it was much more vague.
Speaker 3: It was much more of like, well, Matt's gonna be
Speaker 3: honest about who he is to these people that he trusts,
Speaker 3: and let's see how that can impact the city going forward.
Speaker 3: And that to me, like at the end of Batman,
Speaker 3: which is such a great movie about corrupt cops and
Speaker 3: the danger of corruption in a city and how it
Speaker 3: can impact people. They have to literally have someone be like,
Speaker 3: not all cops are bad cops, and then they show
Speaker 3: all these cops in like a heroic light. I think
Speaker 3: they were able to do something here that is much
Speaker 3: more morally ambiguous because Matt is also morally ambiguous, and
Speaker 3: that to me, I do think is going to be
Speaker 3: the resounding feeling of wow, Like they predicted this, it
Speaker 3: came out at the right time, and it feels like
Speaker 3: they're dealing with it in a way I haven't seen before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it also made me think in an age
Speaker 1: when you know, if you disagree with a lot of
Speaker 1: the things that are going on currently, like in the world,
Speaker 1: you know, the media is corporate, It's completely lost to you.
Speaker 1: It's not a place where you can feel comfortable anymore,
Speaker 1: like communicating those ideas a lot of the times academias
Speaker 1: under threat. It proves this is gonna sound like hokey,
Speaker 1: but to me it shows the importance of of culture
Speaker 1: and like pop culture, and how it can be a
Speaker 1: container for ideas that are super simple but actually like
Speaker 1: really important, like hey, corruption and untrammeled power is bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this.
Speaker 1: Conversation, and so I think that I think that, like
Speaker 1: it's crazy to be like this very very silly television
Speaker 1: feels important in that way, in the same kind of
Speaker 1: way that I think we'll be talking about and or.
Speaker 2: But it does.
Speaker 1: Even though it was like very silly with a lot
Speaker 1: of flaws, it feels like, Oh, here's like a thing
Speaker 1: that says, Hey, all the stuff that's going on that's bad,
Speaker 1: it is actually bad. That's bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fucking bad.
Speaker 3: And guess what you can fight against it if you
Speaker 3: want to, which I think is a good message. Okay,
Speaker 3: many your wrong friend reunion. Joel, tell us how much
Speaker 3: you hated killing us softly? Killing me softly?
Speaker 1: Karen, tell me how much you loved radio had Killing
Speaker 1: Me such a beautiful song about love and the pain
Speaker 1: and the struggle.
Speaker 5: It belongs in I don't know, maybe the last of
Speaker 5: us check that show out. Uh here for two seconds
Speaker 5: win an assassin that Matt has had hardly any time with.
Speaker 2: Why is this solt? For what reason?
Speaker 5: Killing is not softly? It's very deadly and in your
Speaker 5: face and not subtle. He's in a hallway ripping out
Speaker 5: a syringe, which actually from a comic book angle.
Speaker 1: I really love.
Speaker 5: It's so menacing and weird that I'm sure any nurse
Speaker 5: walking by be like, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: But he didn't even need to bring that. He could
Speaker 3: have just he didn't need to bring the whole bulks.
Speaker 3: He could have just stolen a needle.
Speaker 2: From the options. Very different.
Speaker 1: And then he well, let me just wait. I just
Speaker 1: want to say one thing Jason just wants to say
Speaker 1: because as a person who does anybody remember the nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety eight Michael Keaton Kelly Preston classic Jack Frost, in
Speaker 1: which Michael Keaton the most. He plays the most successful
Speaker 1: blues musician in Colorado. He dies in a car accident
Speaker 1: and then his spirit inhabits a snowman.
Speaker 2: Well, the horror movie, terrible.
Speaker 1: Fucking piece of shit movie that is really funny to
Speaker 1: watch in retrospect. As one of the craziest. They use
Speaker 1: Landslide by Fleetwood Mac, which I think is one of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful and affecting and heartbreaking songs ever written,
Speaker 1: drops in the middle of Jack Frost, a movie about
Speaker 1: a haunted snowman, and I just think, like it happens.
Speaker 2: What you was just saying what everyone knows. Why are
Speaker 2: you jamming it in here? Okay, Aaron? Aaron song worked
Speaker 2: for you? And why was it right?
Speaker 6: They could have had that scene in the hospital set
Speaker 6: to dah Rude Sandstorm, and I would have forgiven the
Speaker 6: music supervisor for that Radiohead drop, which when it hits
Speaker 6: is so effective and incredible close to a season. The
Speaker 6: song that is about unease, and this song, I mean,
Speaker 6: like the lyric that's repeated is yesterday I woke up
Speaker 6: sucking a lemon yesterday. I woke up sucking elemon yesterday.
Speaker 6: Like this song is about feeling stuck and blocked, and
Speaker 6: we get like Matt's growth where he chooses to I'm
Speaker 6: not going to just charge in to read. I'm not
Speaker 6: I'm going to try to regroup, collect some people, and
Speaker 6: I'm not going to do this alone.
Speaker 1: Like the Defenders. Maybe maybe the Defenders.
Speaker 2: I will say.
Speaker 6: When Li's commissioner got into the car and was like,
Speaker 6: Luke been a while, I was like, I was like,
Speaker 6: come on, bra But yeah, the radio Head drop, I
Speaker 6: thought was an incredible way to close out the season,
Speaker 6: and I know it's a great way to lead into
Speaker 6: the next one, and I like, I said completely forgave
Speaker 6: them for what other other music choices they had throughout
Speaker 6: the episode, because that Radiohead song is amazing and is
Speaker 6: not the kind of thing you would expect to see
Speaker 6: in like a Marvel television project. So again agree and
Speaker 6: I didn't expect it and therefore I loved it Mountain.
Speaker 3: So okay, let's do so let's I just want to
Speaker 3: say we we were on a we were right roll
Speaker 3: with this episode. Punisher comes back correct, Karen comes back correct,
Speaker 3: Foggy that was more of a could it happen?
Speaker 2: It didn't happen. Sorry, today I gotta say.
Speaker 1: Someone I was like, oh my, that would have been crazy.
Speaker 2: Fisk becoming like maya kingpin.
Speaker 3: We called that right, Matt taking over the gangs and
Speaker 3: crime families wrong, but I do still think we could
Speaker 3: see that in season two and Matt creating kind of
Speaker 3: a good cop team. Is it going to become Dead
Speaker 3: Devil's Army?
Speaker 2: I don't know. We also have this.
Speaker 3: Was a big episode in the Discord, lots of live watching.
Speaker 3: So I'll start off with a friend, my close friend
Speaker 3: and friend of the poor Nikola Shukla spider Man India author.
Speaker 2: We've had on here before.
Speaker 3: How many times in this season? Did mere Fisk say
Speaker 3: this city?
Speaker 1: He says it?
Speaker 2: What are the guesses?
Speaker 1: Times? He probably says it ten times in episodes, So I'm.
Speaker 5: Gonna yeah, I think I'll say thirteen prices, right, rules,
Speaker 5: I just it was.
Speaker 6: A lot, alright, yes, if anyone out there. Nine episodes
Speaker 6: in the season, so I'm gonna say he said eighteen times.
Speaker 3: I think he did average twice to a game. Yeah,
Speaker 3: twice an episode. Okay, I think it was higher, but yes,
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: Okay. Abel will Ring, one of our.
Speaker 3: Most loyal and regular Discord users, asked, is Kirsten an
Speaker 3: established comics character who is a good person? The answer
Speaker 3: is yes. In the comics she is a good person.
Speaker 3: She helps Foggy get Matt out of prison. She is
Speaker 3: a true ally. So no, don't be worried that just
Speaker 3: because she knew the motion was going to dismiss she
Speaker 3: was in the comics. If we're going on her personality there,
Speaker 3: she is not someone who's gonna keep that from Matt
Speaker 3: or use it against Matt in some way. She probably
Speaker 3: has not got any connection with Fisk, and hopefully they
Speaker 3: will expand on her in season two, because I do
Speaker 3: think that there is a lot they can do there. Jason,
Speaker 3: can you do Daniel Blake Dead Evil versus Young Oz
Speaker 3: from Penguin?
Speaker 2: I believe in him.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do It's been too
Speaker 1: long since I've done Young Eyes. But let me try. Uh,
Speaker 1: let me see young Okay. Uh Hi, I'm Daniel, the
Speaker 1: deputy mayor for Communications. Who are you? I'm as I am.
Speaker 1: I I like the Maya. I think he's great, and
Speaker 1: I think everything he's doing is great. And my mom
Speaker 1: loves him. I love to see him, I love him,
Speaker 1: meet him perfect.
Speaker 2: And that was from Playmaker thirty four. We appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Okay, Mon Mouffman, really good question here. Is there even
Speaker 3: a remote chance that we see Spider next season?
Speaker 2: I think I agree? Zero?
Speaker 3: But yeah, Mon Moffman knew it was kind of more
Speaker 3: of a Sony logistical standpoint, and I don't think that's
Speaker 3: gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Well, Okay, so I like this one too. From Joe's
Speaker 2: McK one.
Speaker 3: This is bleak, but after this season, I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: shocked if we see something similar. Do you think that
Speaker 3: they just kept Frank so they could kind of hang
Speaker 3: him in front of the press and same with Jack.
Speaker 5: Do you think coming out?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, John birth John Bernhal is his ascendant and
Speaker 1: the punisher is too important a character.
Speaker 6: Do you think and has a hand in writing it too,
Speaker 6: so it will be.
Speaker 2: Yea yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And do you do you think that we will see
Speaker 3: them basically execute or take a stand on someone like Jack?
Speaker 3: Seems like a perfect kind of They could kill him
Speaker 3: in season two and it would feel but we don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel that Jack Jack's literally done, knowing we've never
Speaker 1: seen him in his He's never been in his costume.
Speaker 2: It's like, why is.
Speaker 1: He He just got in a tiff with Fixed and
Speaker 1: now he's in.
Speaker 2: A cage literally. Okay. Final question from le bolu Bu's comment.
Speaker 2: I like this a lot. This is a good one.
Speaker 2: Who are some of the other people you would put?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 3: Who are the other vigilantes in that cage? Is Let's
Speaker 3: say some which outrage character would you like them to reveal?
Speaker 2: Joel go for Rhy.
Speaker 5: He was done dirty and Craven.
Speaker 2: He was done that.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go for three D Man because I'm obsessed
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 2: I think he needs to I think they need to
Speaker 2: bring him in. I also think, look if.
Speaker 3: Jack Dukaine, the swordsman who's literally just once had a
Speaker 3: little fight with a fencing night you know sword. Sorry
Speaker 3: to the people who know what that's called. I think
Speaker 3: it's called a foil. But like I think anyone could
Speaker 3: be in there, like fisk Is, Like I don't like
Speaker 3: this guy who puts on his glasses and he could
Speaker 3: see a scroll, Like that's dumb.
Speaker 2: Put him in the box.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well, coming up on x Ray Vision, we
Speaker 1: have an absolutely jam packed week coming up. Starting off
Speaker 1: this weekend, we're gonna have our spoiler free reaction to
Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and on Tuesday, we'll be back with
Speaker 1: more Last of Us season two coverage, and then on
Speaker 1: Wednesday and or season two, the first three episodes, we'll
Speaker 1: be covering it. Plus we're helping you get ready for
Speaker 1: Marvel's next big blockbuster with our Thunderbolt book Club on Thursday.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 6: I just also I want to thank the entire x
Speaker 6: ray team. This group talked about Detective Kim more than
Speaker 6: the writer's room of Daredevil, So I just I want to.
Speaker 3: Acknowledge yes for that, Yes, Detective Kim Justice, but Detective
Speaker 3: give her a Marvel preview and Madison Detective Kim Buddy not.
Speaker 1: X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie
Speaker 1: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Coleman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusa.
Speaker 3: Par All produces are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wack.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Ern Copman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator