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Speaker 1: Speaks to the planet. I'll go by the name of

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Speaker 1: Charlamagne Tha God. And guess what, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: see y'all at the third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 1: That's right, We're coming back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April

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Speaker 1: twenty six at Poleman Yards and it's hosted by none

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Speaker 1: other than Decisions, Decisions Man, DyB and Weezy. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: got the R and B Money podcast. We're taking Jay Valentine.

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Speaker 1: We got the Woman of All Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts.

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Speaker 1: We got Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be

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Speaker 1: there with her next sports podcast and the Trap Nerds podcast,

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Speaker 1: with more to be announced. And of course it's bigger

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Speaker 1: than podcasts. We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black

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Speaker 1: owned businesses plus the food truck court to keep you

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Speaker 1: fed while you visit us. All right, listen, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to miss this. Tap in and grab your tickets

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Speaker 1: now at Black Effect dot Com Flash Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 2: Take a deep in through your nose.

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Speaker 3: Holds it.

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Speaker 2: Now, release slowly again deep in haale hold release, repeating

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Speaker 2: internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I

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Speaker 2: am deeply well I am deeply Well. I am deeply.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown, and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on

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Speaker 2: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,

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Speaker 2: and ready to expand and higher consciousness and self care.

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Speaker 2: This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. I am Debbie Brown. Today's

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Speaker 2: episode we are going into uncharted territory and I cannot wait.

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Speaker 2: We haven't yet had a chance on this show.

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Speaker 3: To really.

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Speaker 4: Explore the question of what does it mean to see

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Speaker 4: the world, what does it mean to experience the world?

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Speaker 2: Culturally? As a species, we are more open, aware and

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Speaker 2: awakened to how vast this planet is and how different

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Speaker 2: it is, and yet so many of us still stay

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Speaker 2: inside of tight constraints, or wrestle with fears about exploration

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Speaker 2: and adventure or giving ourselves access to true freedom. And

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Speaker 2: in this episode we get to explore all of that.

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Speaker 2: Today's special guest is someone that I've been waiting and

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Speaker 2: waiting to have on this show. I got a copy

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Speaker 2: of her book and it is one of my son's

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Speaker 2: favorite things. Ever since I have he is always opening

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Speaker 2: it looking at the picture, where is this? But where

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Speaker 2: in that country is this? Asking questions and it's really

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Speaker 2: brought him to life with so much curiosity. So I

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Speaker 2: am just so excited to have this special guest today.

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Speaker 2: Jessica Nabongo is on the show. Jessica Nabongo is a

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Speaker 2: GLOAE Global Citizen, a master storyteller and travel expert who

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Speaker 2: is the first black woman to have traveled to every

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Speaker 2: country in the world. Named one of the fifty most

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Speaker 2: Notable People in Travel by Travel and Leisure, Jessica uses

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Speaker 2: her platforms to educate and inspire others to experience the

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Speaker 2: world around them and build a global community with an

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Speaker 2: emphasis on bringing untold stories to the world. Her first book,

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Speaker 2: The Catch Me If You Can. One Woman's Journey to

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Speaker 2: Every Country in the World, published by National Geographic, was

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Speaker 2: an instant bestseller. A first generation American, Jessica was born

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Speaker 2: and raised in Detroit by Ugandan parents. She attended Saint

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Speaker 2: John's University in New York, where she earned a degree

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Speaker 2: in English literature, later completing a graduate degree at the

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Speaker 2: London School of Economics. She is also the founder of

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Speaker 2: the lifestyle brand The Catch. When She's not on a plane,

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Speaker 2: she is home tending to her plants into h and La.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Jessica, No, thank you for having me. I'm so happy

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Speaker 3: to be here.

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Speaker 2: I am so happy to have you. And I think

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Speaker 2: the first question I need to ask you is how

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Speaker 2: many countries have you been to this month?

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Speaker 3: Where have you traveled in this last few weeks?

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Speaker 5: I was in Guyana in South America, and then Trinidad,

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Speaker 5: and I was in Tobago as well, Granada for like

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Speaker 5: ten hours, which was crazy, and Barbados.

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Speaker 2: We are halfway through the month. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think I've taken ten flights this month so far. Wow.

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Speaker 6: And how long has this been your life?

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question.

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Speaker 5: I mean, so I've been traveling internationally with my family

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Speaker 5: since I was four, but you know, over seventy flights

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Speaker 5: a year probably like the last fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: Wow, it's been a lot.

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Speaker 6: Oh my god, I mean, how special, What a special.

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Speaker 3: Life, what a rare life?

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Speaker 2: Very rare?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very rare.

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Speaker 5: I got my email from Delta, which was like the

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Speaker 5: year end wrap up, and I'm in there. One percent

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Speaker 5: of flyers like I fly more than all of their pilots,

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Speaker 5: which is crazy.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about some of those perks, like what does

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Speaker 2: life look like when you are an Airlines one percent?

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Speaker 3: It's good.

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Speaker 5: It's it's funny because just coming down from San Francisco,

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Speaker 5: I had the same flight crew that flew in from

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Speaker 5: Detroit to SF, and so I get on I was like, hey,

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Speaker 5: I know you guys, and they were like, it's you.

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Speaker 5: And so then you know, like when I see like

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Speaker 5: staff that I've seen before, it's so cool because it's

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Speaker 5: pretty rare no matter how much I fly, it's very

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Speaker 5: rare to see the same flight attendant, so it actually

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Speaker 5: feels like family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And when I landed in La.

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Speaker 5: The delta like VIP woman and she wasn't there for me,

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Speaker 5: but she was outside of the door of the plane

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Speaker 5: and she's like, where have you been?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, we actually I.

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Speaker 5: Moved And it was just good to see her because

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Speaker 5: it's just these familiar faces that I would see like

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Speaker 5: once a week being at the airport all the time.

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Speaker 5: So it feels good. It's comfortable, you know. We always

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Speaker 5: love being number one on the upgrade list.

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Speaker 2: Listen, one thing I wanted some perks is special, right,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes they give me like little notes, which is

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Speaker 2: very cute as well, so, yeah, I remember recently, I

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Speaker 2: forget where I was. I think I was fine in

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Speaker 2: New York. And you know how they have like their

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Speaker 2: commercials like and please do the da da da, And

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Speaker 2: the man in the commercial was my flight attendant. Oh

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Speaker 2: that's so on that flight. So I literally kept looking

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Speaker 2: at the screen and looking at him, looking at the screen,

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Speaker 2: looking at him, like what that's And it felt so

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Speaker 2: special because ye as much as you you know, I think,

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Speaker 2: in no way, shape or form, am I as traveled

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Speaker 2: as you, my dear, But you know, I probably pro

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Speaker 2: I fly a few times a month for work, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I always expect to run into people at

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Speaker 2: the airport. I never have. I always expect to see

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Speaker 2: the same flight cure. I've been, you know, traveling for decades,

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Speaker 2: and you never do. It is kind of rare, you're

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Speaker 2: those airports are such a it's just such a transient experience.

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Speaker 2: It feels otherworldly sometimes.

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Speaker 5: And it's interesting because this week was quite kismet. I

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Speaker 5: was very exhausted, as you can imagine. I got back

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Speaker 5: from Barbados at like three am Friday morning, and I

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Speaker 5: was on a flight to SF by like four pm

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Speaker 5: on Saturday. So it was a lot, right, and I'm

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Speaker 5: super exhausted. That flight Monday from San Francisco to La

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Speaker 5: ran into my friend Janenna, like he was sitting in

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Speaker 5: my row.

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Speaker 3: I was like, how is this happening?

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Speaker 5: The flight attendants, the woman who works for Delta here,

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Speaker 5: And then in the airport I saw another friend, Kid Fury,

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Speaker 5: who many people probably know.

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Speaker 3: And it was just it felt so kismet.

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Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, I'm supposed to be here, despite

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Speaker 5: the exhaustion and everything. It's like that n that I

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Speaker 5: call it winks from the universe that I'm exactly where

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Speaker 5: I'm supposed to be.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So when you when you first set out on

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Speaker 2: this journey, right, like when you first approached well, actually,

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Speaker 2: my question would be, how did you decide that you

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Speaker 2: would visit every country in the world? And when did

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Speaker 2: the vision come to your the call?

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Speaker 5: So, I you know, I'm a geography nerd. I had

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Speaker 5: traveled a lot, and I always knew I wanted to

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Speaker 5: visit every country in the world. I started my blog

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Speaker 5: to Catch Me if you Can in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 5: and every year I would do a year and wrap

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Speaker 5: up because I had these little maps like this where

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Speaker 5: I've been mapping, so I would fill in my map

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Speaker 5: and it was so exciting to me to just continue

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Speaker 5: filling in the map. So I thought, Okay, I'll visit

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Speaker 5: every country in the world by the time I'm like

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Speaker 5: forty or fifty. Then in twenty seventeen, I was in Bali.

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Speaker 5: I was trying to find myself. I had quit my

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Speaker 5: last corporate job, like maybe a year and a half before,

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Speaker 5: and I was unsure. I was just kind of like

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Speaker 5: in the wind, just going traveling but with no clear direction.

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Speaker 5: And I remember I was sitting with a friend and

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Speaker 5: I said, I want Oprah to interview me, and she

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Speaker 5: was like, why would Oprah interview you? I was like,

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm gonna figure something out. And around

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Speaker 5: that time, there was an American woman who got the

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Speaker 5: Guinness record for doing it the fastest and she made headlines.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, people care that people travel like

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Speaker 5: because at that point I had been to sixty countries,

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Speaker 5: which is a lot a lot. Yeah, but I didn't,

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Speaker 5: you know, I didn't really make a thing of it.

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Speaker 5: It was just like, this is a thing that I'm doing.

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Speaker 5: So I found myself in an internet rabbit hole, as

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Speaker 5: one does, and found out about like the country counting

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Speaker 5: community found out that at that time, less than one

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Speaker 5: hundred and fifty people had been to every country in

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Speaker 5: the world.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The numbers have shot up now definitely because of social media.

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Speaker 5: And I'm like, I'm am I part of the problem.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, because now you have a lot more

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Speaker 5: people who want to do it. I think now maybe

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Speaker 5: it's around three to four hundred people have done.

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Speaker 2: It, which is I mean, just can we put that

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Speaker 2: in context for a second. There's nine billion people on

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Speaker 2: the planet, right, nine billion?

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Speaker 5: Like that is that is rare air? Yeah, And people

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Speaker 5: often ask me like, did you did you do it?

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Speaker 3: Or did it happen?

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Speaker 5: I'm like no, it takes intention, it takes effort, it

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Speaker 5: takes resilience, it takes focus, it takes a lot. Because

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Speaker 5: the thing is, the Guinness record for visiting every country

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Speaker 5: in the world is like eighteen and a half months,

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Speaker 5: one hundred and ninety three countries they count eighteen and

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Speaker 5: a half months. I did one hundred and thirty five

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Speaker 5: new countries in two and a half years, and that

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Speaker 5: felt very fast to me. Wow. But for me on

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Speaker 5: the journey, I wanted to have cultural experiences in every country.

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Speaker 5: If you do the Guinness Record, you're literally like they're

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Speaker 5: touching down, right, they're getting on the plane, going through

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Speaker 5: immigration and getting back on that same plane. Because there's

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Speaker 5: so many countries in the world that don't have flights

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Speaker 5: every day. So it took real effort and real intention

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Speaker 5: because I was driven by like my curiosity of humanity,

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Speaker 5: and I wanted to see how people lived everywhere in

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Speaker 5: the world. And you know what I came out with

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Speaker 5: is like, we're way more similar than we are different,

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Speaker 5: because we're all just humans.

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Speaker 3: Like, take away race.

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Speaker 5: And gender and all of the things, right, accent, nationality,

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Speaker 5: take it all away. We're all just human. We're all

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Speaker 5: made up of the same things. Right, we may look different,

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Speaker 5: but we're all made up of the same exact things.

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Speaker 5: And the other lesson that I learned is that most

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Speaker 5: people are good. We're living in.

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Speaker 3: A time where they the big day want.

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Speaker 5: Us to distrust our neighbors, they want us to distrust

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Speaker 5: the stranger in the street. But what I've found i've

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Speaker 5: traveled solo to over one hundred countries, is that most

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Speaker 5: people are good. The only reason that I've been able

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Speaker 5: to remain safe in every country. Yes, that includes Afghanistan,

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Speaker 5: North Korea. All of them is because of strangers, people

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Speaker 5: who you know, cared for me when I was in

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Speaker 5: their country, people who wanted to make sure not only

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Speaker 5: that I was able to explore and understand their culture,

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Speaker 5: but also that I remain safe.

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Speaker 3: Those were strangers.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I have so many questions. I want to

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Speaker 2: pivot to you from here, and I need to apartmental

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Speaker 2: all of them in a list in my brain because when.

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Speaker 5: I say every people are like, but you've been to Afghanistan,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, it is a country. You've been to North Korea.

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Speaker 5: It's a country.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me about North Korea.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so North Korea, actually.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't feel like what people think of what that's

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Speaker 5: turk Ministan, which is that creepy not creepy, I don't

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Speaker 5: want to say creepy.

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Speaker 3: Eerie, eery ear yer ear.

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Speaker 5: Turk Ministan has that eerie feeling of I'm being watched.

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Speaker 3: Where are all of the people? Why are these wide

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Speaker 3: streets so empty?

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Speaker 5: H turk Ministan felt like that North Korea we have

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Speaker 5: felt relatively normal, and that's what I found the most fascinating,

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Speaker 5: Like there aren't advertisements, which seems like not.

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Speaker 3: Special in any way.

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Speaker 5: But if you go out of your home, you realize

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Speaker 5: there's adverts everywhere around us, like constant influenced exactly, billboards,

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Speaker 5: and it's a lot of stimuli there.

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Speaker 3: You don't have that.

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Speaker 5: But what I found, like the normal side of things

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Speaker 5: is like you saw couples in the parks holding hands.

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Speaker 5: You saw people taking like wedding pictures in front of

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Speaker 5: national monuments. We went to the grocery store, there was

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Speaker 5: just people there, and we ended up going to a

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Speaker 5: bar one night, and you know, we went to the

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Speaker 5: subway and people are just living their life now. Of course,

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Speaker 5: like only certain people have access to live in Pyongyang,

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Speaker 5: the capital, but the people living there have pretty what

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Speaker 5: I would consider to be a regular life, like I've

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Speaker 5: seen in every other kindry everywhere.

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Speaker 2: I was just kind of speaking freely and having emotions

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Speaker 2: and having experiences.

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Speaker 3: They're just being humans.

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Speaker 2: This is fat, I mean, this is fact. The answer

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Speaker 2: is show I have riquestions because like a couple of

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Speaker 2: years ago, well many years ago, I just was on

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Speaker 2: a deep dive and I was watching taking in so

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Speaker 2: much information about North Korea.

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Speaker 3: So this is just wow.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And the thing is I don't do a ton

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Speaker 5: of research before I go places, so like, I have

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Speaker 5: a pretty solid level of understanding of most of the world.

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Speaker 5: I went to London School of Economics, I studied international development,

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Speaker 5: so it was like a global political and economic history

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Speaker 5: of the world, so I have some knowledge of every country.

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Speaker 3: But I never did like deep research.

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Speaker 5: I was kind of like I wanted to go in

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Speaker 5: led by curiosity, so I didn't go in to confirm

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Speaker 5: what I thought I knew.

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Speaker 3: I went in to ask questions and to listen and

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Speaker 3: to learn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super powerful. What a beautiful way to see

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Speaker 2: the world. You know, when you so spiritually speaking and

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Speaker 2: in my stay understanding of consciousness and experiences with we

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Speaker 2: tend to have when we're open to them and life

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Speaker 2: aligns really really powerful. Quantum leaps in two year cycles.

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Speaker 2: So when you're telling me that you saw this many

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Speaker 2: countries in the span of like two and a half years.

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Speaker 2: Spiritually speaking, our four year cycles are really potent, but

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Speaker 2: two year cycles are really where like you try on

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Speaker 2: and begin to embody an entirely different version of who

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Speaker 2: and what you are. Like there is a deep, deep, cellular, emotional,

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Speaker 2: spiritual freedom that comes when you're interacting with it. And

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Speaker 2: participating with it in two year cycles. So I'm so curious,

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Speaker 2: you know, because obviously I imagine two and a half

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Speaker 2: years seeing that much of the world and being as

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Speaker 2: intentional as you are and as curious and as kind

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Speaker 2: of rooted in the cultural experience, you probably didn't really

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Speaker 2: get to interact with your friends and family too much,

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Speaker 2: so you're kind of isolated inside even though you're in

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Speaker 2: the world. And so, was there a transformation that took place?

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Speaker 2: And if so, like what was that and how did

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Speaker 2: that feel as you were in motion?

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Speaker 5: Well, that's interesting because I never thought about it, right,

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Speaker 5: I never thought about that two year block. But if

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Speaker 5: I think about like my thirty third birthday to my

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Speaker 5: thirty fifth birthday, yeah, I was a completely different person.

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Speaker 5: And I think one of the biggest things for me

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Speaker 5: was that I started to live where I was right, So,

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Speaker 5: like that idea of living in the present became really

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Speaker 5: important because when you're in Samoa and like there's a

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Speaker 5: seventeen hour time difference from where most of your friends

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Speaker 5: and family are, I can't live in both places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to choose.

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Speaker 5: And I chose to be hyper present everywhere that I was.

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Speaker 5: And to your point, it left me a bit isolated,

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Speaker 5: you know, and it's something that I still feel today

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Speaker 5: because it's out of sight, out of mind, right, And

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of people feel that I'm unreachable.

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Speaker 3: But I'm like, I have what'sapp you can always reach me.

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Speaker 5: But I think, yeah, Like I think there was a

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Speaker 5: spiritual elevation that took me out of my home connections

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Speaker 5: but put me into connection with the world in a

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Speaker 5: way that very few people that I meet are, even

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Speaker 5: people who've been to every country in the world. I

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Speaker 5: think I've had incredibly different and unique and deep experiences

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Speaker 5: because I was intentional, because I see everyone as human.

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Speaker 5: I don't care if you're black or white, or Asian

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Speaker 5: or whatever. I'm here and I'm looking at you, and

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Speaker 5: I'm like, who are you as a person? I don't

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Speaker 5: care if you're a celebrity. I don't care if you're

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Speaker 5: a homeless person on the street. Like, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: treat everyone with respect because you are a human. And

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Speaker 5: for me, I'm human before i'm anything else. I'm human

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Speaker 5: before i'm a woman. I'm human before i'm black. I'm

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Speaker 5: human before i'm anything else. And that's how I moved

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Speaker 5: through the world what.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel? You know, looking back now, from the

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Speaker 2: age you start in the age you finished, what changed

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Speaker 2: about you?

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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I would go back further than

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Speaker 5: the two years because so I'd been so I was

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Speaker 5: in sixty countries by the time twenty seventeen came about,

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Speaker 5: and so I had been traveling a lot. I think

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Speaker 5: one of the big things that changed. I have very

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Speaker 5: little fear of anything. And when you can release fear,

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Speaker 5: the whole the whole world opens up, right, But beyond that,

358
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Speaker 5: like your soul is at peace. Fear is certainly irrational,

359
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Speaker 5: but fear terrorizes us, and fear causes us to have

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Speaker 5: high stress levels, and it releases cortizone and all of that.

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Speaker 5: But like, you know, people are like, oh, you weren't

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Speaker 5: afraid when you went to Afghanistan or Iran, And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 5: I'm not afraid of people. So if I'm not afraid

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Speaker 5: of people, what am I afraid of? Am I afraid

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Speaker 5: of the trees?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: Like, of course, things can go wrong.

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Speaker 5: But what I've realized recently, because I always post my

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Speaker 5: crazy airport travel videos that I know everybody like, I

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00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 5: love them, what I realize is that because people are like, no,

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Speaker 5: you have to leave early. What if there's an accident?

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Speaker 3: What if this? What if that?

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Speaker 5: I realize I don't plan for the what if. I

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00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 5: don't plan expecting for things to go wrong. I always

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00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 5: expect everything to go right, and I expect the world

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Speaker 5: to open up for me. If there's traffic, I expect

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Speaker 5: there to just be a lane and there's no cars,

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Speaker 5: and it's just like, oh, me and my uber are

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Speaker 5: gonna go in that lane. That's what I go out expecting.

382
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Speaker 5: So no, there's not like accidents on my way to

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Speaker 5: the airport. And you know, no, I don't miss bag

384
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Speaker 5: Drop because I don't expect that to me. So I'm

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Speaker 5: not magnetizing it to me. We are magnets like this.

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Speaker 5: I believe we can. We can draw people to us,

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Speaker 5: we draw energy to us, we draw events to us.

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Speaker 5: And because I'm constantly seeking the good, the positive, the magic,

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Speaker 5: that's what's being drawn to me. So I don't have

390
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 5: anxiety when I'm at the airport and you know, Bagdrop

391
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 5: closes in three minutes and I just walked in the door,

392
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Speaker 5: I'm just like, yeah, I got three minutes to get

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Speaker 5: from the door there.

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Speaker 3: That's easy. Breezy.

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Speaker 5: You know, I'm not thinking like, oh what if I trip?

396
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 5: But you know I don't think about that, and I think, yeah,

397
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Speaker 5: like really traveling, traveling solo, traveling solo to you know,

398
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Speaker 5: so called dangerous countries and surviving it.

399
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Speaker 3: It's allowed me to release so much fear.

400
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Speaker 2: Deeply. Well just one of the things I think is

401
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 2: so powerful about what you're saying, and I want everyone

402
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 2: to track this because when you remove a belief that

403
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: there's limits on your life, right, when you remove any

404
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 2: barriers you have to your personal freedom and autonomy, the

405
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: natural unfolding that comes from that, it's really a tremendous

406
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 2: amount of miraculous energy that surrounds you, tremendous amount of

407
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: synchronicity and serendipity. And it's like, you know, not only

408
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 2: are you not planning for that, The thing is, if

409
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: that were to happen, something would instantly, a new timeline,

410
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: a new a new opportunity would instantly come in to

411
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 2: greet you, and then you'd be on the aligned path.

412
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Speaker 2: So it's like, get what I'm hearing and what you're

413
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: saying is you know the words I'd use for that.

414
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 2: It's it's surrendering to alignment in your life. You know,

415
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: it's like you are in flow with your call and

416
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: with your movement, and so all of the universe conspires

417
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: for all of us when we tap into our freedom.

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Speaker 6: When that's the case, when we do believe that.

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Speaker 2: Like there's no limits on my life, there's nowhere I

420
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: need to be afraid. And this is not naevita, right, Like,

421
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: you know the difference you know when someone is like

422
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 2: bypassing or avoiding or having you know, those rose colored

423
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Speaker 2: glasses on as like you know, a way to self avoid.

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Speaker 2: But then there is that real state of like earned

425
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Speaker 2: freedom internally that shifts everything about how the world meets you.

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Speaker 5: It shifts every thing, and it gives you a lightness,

427
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 5: right like I And you know a lot of people

428
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 5: are suffering from anxiety. I think a lot of that

429
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 5: has kicked up because of our habits with like social media.

430
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 5: I'm just overexposure to other people's lives that we do

431
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 5: not need. But when it's too much, but when you

432
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 5: can release that, it's just I can't even express truly

433
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 5: like the lightness of being that it is like people

434
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 5: see me, you know, It's I always think about the

435
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 5: airport thing because so many people are like, you are

436
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 5: giving me a panic attack, and I'm like, wow, I

437
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Speaker 5: feel nothing, like I'm moving, I'm breathing fine, I'm like

438
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 5: I'm showing like you know what I mean. So it's

439
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 5: it's just it's a freedom that I really hope everyone finds.

440
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about you know, one

441
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 7: of the things I when I think about the we're

442
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 7: friends and when I think about the themes of.

443
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: Our conversations, they tend to really rest. And it was

444
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: funny because I asked you for some keywords earlier. Our

445
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: conversations actually rest in these keywords freedom, grief.

446
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 6: Love, and through traveling the world.

447
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: My God, the many faceted ways that one can be

448
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: brought to deeper understanding of all those three things. What

449
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: is traveling the world taught you about? Love?

450
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 5: That love exists everywhere, that all of us can access love,

451
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 5: Love exists in poverty, love exists and wealth, Love exists

452
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 5: in the middle of nowhere. And love exists everywhere. And

453
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 5: we are love like we as humans, you know, these

454
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 5: we us, these spiritual beings, having this human experience. We

455
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 5: are love manifested in every single place that we show up.

456
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 5: We have the opportunity to be love for someone else,

457
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 5: and it doesn't have to be someone that you know intimately.

458
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 5: We can be love for a stranger. I'm gonna tell

459
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 5: a really quick story. I was in DC. I just

460
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 5: moved there. This was like twenty fourteen. We were on

461
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 5: Eighth Street, so it's twenty fourteen. Remember it wasn't as

462
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 5: gentrified as it is now. And there was this homeless

463
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 5: woman and me and my friend were walking to his car.

464
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 5: And we're walking to the car and the lady's like hi,

465
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 5: you know, she just starts talking to me. So I'm

466
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 5: like hello. My friend's like, Jessica, get in the car.

467
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 5: And she's like, look at you, you Siberian princess. It's like, oh, Siberian, okay,

468
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 5: not new be and Siberian okay, cool, cool, take o cool,

469
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 5: It's fine, it's fine.

470
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 3: So I'm just laughing. I was like, oh my god,

471
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: thank you so much. That's so sweet.

472
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 5: And she was like, give me a hug, and so

473
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 5: I go and my friend's like, Jessica, get in the car,

474
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 5: and so I give her a hug. Because it's one

475
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 5: of those things I feel like, particularly in this country,

476
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 5: we discard people, right, we discard the homeless and we

477
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 5: act like they're no longer human.

478
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 3: So I gave her a hug.

479
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 5: I think nothing of it, and I'm like, okay, I

480
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 5: have to go, you know, thank you so much. Whatever

481
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 5: I get in the car. She didn't ask me for anything.

482
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 5: She didn't ask me for money, nothing. So we're in

483
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 5: the car. My friend's kind of like, you're nuts, and

484
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 5: she knocks on the window and he's like, see she

485
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 5: knocks on the window and she's doing emotion. She's telling

486
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 5: me to put on my seatbelt. And I think about

487
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 5: that moment so much because of how I saw her humanity,

488
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 5: she saw my humanity, and we had this little exchange,

489
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 5: which means a lot to me because I still remember it.

490
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 5: This was, you know, eleven years ago, and maybe it

491
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 5: did something for her. She could have been talking to

492
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 5: people all week, all month, and no when acknowledged her.

493
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 5: She could have asked other people for hugs, and no

494
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 5: one hugged her. So it cost me nothing to give

495
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 5: her that.

496
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: Hug in that moment.

497
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that could have just changed everything for her.

498
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 5: And so you know, that's such a small instance, but

499
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 5: think like, we have the power just through our kindness

500
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 5: to show love to every single person that we meet

501
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 5: in the world. Imagine how that can change people's lives.

502
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 5: Imagine how it can change the world.

503
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, ah, And it's like I always think that

504
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 7: moments like that are really our tests, you know, those

505
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 7: are really God's tests, like do you have the heart.

506
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: You say you have? You know, are you going to

507
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: recoil or are you going to extend dignity to another

508
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: person that has inherent worth and dignity?

509
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I think the biggest like one of the

510
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 5: big things I've also learned from travel, I don't believe

511
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 5: in hierarchy. I don't care who you are, what you are, degrees,

512
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 5: you know how many followers, fame whatever, Right, We're all

513
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 5: just human and we should treat each other that way.

514
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: And it's all fleeting.

515
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 5: It's all fleeting. And I believe in multiple lifetimes. Oh yeah,

516
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 5: and let me tell you you're with the right audience, okay,

517
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 5: because I'm like, you don't want to be in that

518
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 5: next life like ooh, what happened here?

519
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like be careful. Karma is and you know,

520
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: it's so interesting. It's like, you know, karma in the

521
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: lens of multiple lifetimes, which would be that every lifetime

522
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: you're working on the unfinished business from the others. But

523
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: like karma every moment because karma a Sanskrit word, all

524
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: it actually means is action. Everyone kind of puts it

525
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: in this feeling of it being like bad, bad karma,

526
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: Karma's a bee, you know, all these things, but the

527
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: actual meaning it's just action. It's it's response. It's it

528
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: could be described as consequence, but it's really in every

529
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: moment there will be a response to how you behave

530
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: in what you do, and because of that response, that

531
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: then is going to be the merit that you get

532
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: to walk around with or the continued lesson you'll be exploring.

533
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really interesting because you know, we think about

534
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 5: the world is today and so many people putting evil

535
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 5: energy into the world and embodying that, and.

536
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, why are they still here?

537
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 5: But then it's like you have to remember there's another

538
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 5: lifetime and they're going to get theirs.

539
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gosh. It's so hard to settle in,

540
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: you know, to some of the understanding and higher consciousness

541
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: that there is no better good. It's like so hard

542
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: sometimes to kind of settle into the seed of that,

543
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: especially being alive on earth and see all the things

544
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: that we see. But everything is experience and then you

545
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: will have the opportunity to play out that experience in

546
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: so many different ways in this lifetime in the next. Well,

547
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: we're still talking about love. I'm curious, especially for all

548
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: the travel girlies, how do you date while traveling the world?

549
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: Girl?

550
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: It's so hella, so hard.

551
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: It's so hard.

552
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 5: I think definitely in my twenties I was, you know,

553
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 5: more exploratory, if you will, and I'll be honest, part

554
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: of that like has gone down just because of visibility. Right,

555
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 5: So if I'm traveling and I'm working with a hotel, like, I.

556
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: Can't really bring someone back.

557
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 5: With me, you know in a way that perhaps I

558
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 5: would like to, And so it's it's definitely hard.

559
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: I think it's nice because I travel, I have options.

560
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 5: I've dated men in many different countries, which has been

561
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: just interesting because I think for me, like race doesn't

562
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 5: matter because again I come from the standpoint of like,

563
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 5: we're all just human. I mean, I do have gender preferences,

564
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 5: which would be male, but besides that, I don't really

565
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 5: care about race because I'm just like, how do I

566
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 5: connect with you as a human?

567
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: So that allows me to be a lot more open.

568
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 5: I think the challenge now is that guys look at

569
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 5: me and think I'm a flight risk.

570
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,959
Speaker 3: They're like, where are you? Where were you? Where are

571
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: you going?

572
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 5: And I think like beyond that, you know, people see

573
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 5: the so called bigness of my life and they question

574
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 5: where they can fit in, and I'm like, none of

575
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 5: that actually matters.

576
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 3: I'm really simple, like let's read books.

577
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 5: On the couch together, and you know, I want a

578
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 5: very I want something quite simple, and I think a

579
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 5: lot of people don't believe that. I remember I was

580
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 5: on a date with this guy I'd been saying for

581
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 5: a little bit, and he was like, what do you

582
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 5: want to be when you grow up?

583
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: And I was like a housewife and.

584
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 5: He was like what you know, because a lot of

585
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 5: people think I'm super ambitious and like I want to

586
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 5: do all of these things, and I'm like, no, my

587
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 5: success is like a product of me being single quite frankly,

588
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 5: which I mean, on the one hand, like I wouldn't

589
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: have gone to every country in the world right if

590
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 5: I had a partner, I would imagine it would have

591
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 5: like stifled me in ways.

592
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: But I'm like, okay, I'm done with that. As men

593
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: bring me my man. So yeah, it can be. It

594
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: can be challenging. I won't lie, it's yeah.

595
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 5: And then also men think that I have boyfriends all

596
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 5: over the world, and I'm like, where are they?

597
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: You know, the phone is dry where they at? I

598
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: don't believe that.

599
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: But we can say that for the podcast, but no,

600
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: we have But that even that is so, you know,

601
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: because I think we have to, especially as women that

602
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: have a certain rareness for whatever reasons. Right, I'm not

603
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: saying this in a hierarchical way, but you think different,

604
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: you move different. You know, life unfolds differently for you.

605
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: And so I find that women who have rare lives, right,

606
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: who are meant to kind of teach with their life

607
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: or all of their life is their life's work, which

608
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: I see in you, which I find for myself. You know,

609
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: love unfolds so much differently because we have a lot

610
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: of like research years and a lot of observation and

611
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: curiosity years that I like to call being in practice

612
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: with love, right, because you are meant and this is

613
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: how your life is unfolded to experience so much in

614
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: this limited time that we're alive. So that more than

615
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: likely means in every facet, right, not just every country.

616
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: But you're getting a real understanding of humanity in love

617
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: and the masculine of men in love, and not just

618
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: men from the standpoint of like got a man, but

619
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: like the male species, like really understanding the way they love,

620
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: the way they think, the way they move through about cultures.

621
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: So it's really fascinating. So it makes sense that you

622
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: might have years that you are in more practice and observation.

623
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: You know, what would you say, as a woman that

624
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,959
Speaker 2: has seen so much and done so much, what would

625
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: your type be?

626
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 5: Oh, that's interesting. I mean I don't I don't think

627
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 5: there's a specific type. I think there's characteristics. Yes, someone curious,

628
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 5: someone who's curious about the world, intellectually curious, someone with hobbies,

629
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 5: someone who's kind, respectful, thoughtful, loving, romantic, fun funny. Yeah,

630
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 5: I think you know, I think thoughtful is the thing

631
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 5: that I keep coming back to. Like, thoughtfulness is such

632
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 5: a skill. It doesn't actually require much, but it requires

633
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 5: intention And I want to be with someone who is

634
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 5: so intentional about loving me, you know, who can like

635
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 5: cut through.

636
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 3: The noise, ignore the noise.

637
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 5: And just like focus on me and you, right, Like

638
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 5: I really just want someone to do the rest of

639
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 5: this life with, and someone who you know comes in

640
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 5: with a lightness, right, Like, you can't come in with

641
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 5: a heaviness and bring that into my life. I'm like,

642
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 5: I like, I feel like I live a very light

643
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 5: life and I want to continue that with someone that

644
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 5: I can love.

645
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: M Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think

646
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: like the older I get and the more I understand

647
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: about myself, my list is so much shorter, but it

648
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: is deeper.

649
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: It's deeper. Yeah.

650
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 5: It used to be like, can't be taller than six foot,

651
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 5: he has to make this much, right, But yeah.

652
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, does he live with honor? Does

653
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: he have integrity? Does he have values? Does has he

654
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: wrestled with God and made peace with God? Like that's

655
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: the number one thing on my list right now, Like

656
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: have you earned your relationship with God? You know?

657
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 6: Have you.

658
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: Gone at it with God to fall in love with

659
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 2: God again?

660
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 6: You know?

661
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: Because I think that's so much in my life and

662
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 2: I need someone that understands the world and the divine

663
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: with the same kind of reverence and the same depth

664
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: of connection, you know. And I'm like, I can make

665
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: almost anything else. Almost anything else could work for me

666
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 2: in some way it'll make sense. Yeah, But like if

667
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: those things are missing, it's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible.

668
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

669
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: What does the word grief mean to you and how

670
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: does it occupy space in your life? We are in

671
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: a time a really understanding grief and grieving. I think

672
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 2: grief is like a big part of my life's work,

673
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of the focus of my book

674
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 2: Living in Wisdom April twenty second. But just about that dance,

675
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: because all of life is dancing between grief and joy,

676
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: all of it every second.

677
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like my.

678
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 5: Real relationship with grief started only in twenty twenty two,

679
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 5: which is interesting because my father was murdered in two

680
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 5: thousand and three, two days after my nineteenth birthday. And I,

681
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 5: you know, through therapy, through reading, through so many things,

682
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 5: through just like analysis of self, what I realized is

683
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 5: it was two days after my nineteenth birthday. I never

684
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 5: thought of myself as a child at that point, but

685
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 5: now I realize I was, and there was a fundamental

686
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 5: shift in my personality, and that's when I became sort

687
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 5: of who I am today, the person that's very resilient.

688
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 5: Because I have two older sisters, they were emotional wrecks

689
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 5: like useless. My mother was in Ugunda at the time

690
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 5: because her mother had a stroke, and I had to

691
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 5: call her and tell her that my father had been murdered.

692
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 5: The man, the only man she's ever dated and love

693
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 5: had been murdered. And you know, she ended up coming back.

694
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 5: Seventeen days later her mother died, but now she was

695
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 5: in Detroit, right, Oh my God. And I was the

696
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 5: one doing everything. I was planning the funeral, I was

697
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 5: booking the flights, I was doing all the logistics because

698
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 5: something in me shut off the emotional part of me

699
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 5: and turned on like problem solving. And I remained that

700
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 5: way until twenty twenty two. March thirtieth, twenty twenty two,

701
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 5: my very dear friend A. J. Crimson died and he

702
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 5: drowned on vacation in Bonair, and that cracked.

703
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: Me open, Oh my God.

704
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 5: In a way that I never could have imagined. And

705
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 5: so I'd never dealt with the grief of my father.

706
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 5: And now I've been dealing with the grief of my

707
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 5: father for several years. But like post you know, it

708
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 5: was like over. It was almost twenty years before I

709
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 5: started dealing with it. And now I'm sitting in it constantly.

710
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 5: And what I find is that my relationship with grief

711
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 5: is that I want to help other people when they're grieving.

712
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 5: I have another friend whose father passed suddenly December twenty

713
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 5: twenty two, and I just I showed up for her

714
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 5: in a way that I wish somebody would have for me.

715
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 5: And so now I feel like I have the tools

716
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 5: that I can hand to other people when they're dealing

717
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: with their grief, you know, and help people acknowledge it

718
00:40:58,680 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 5: and help people.

719
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: Sit with it.

720
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 5: Right, we have to sit with grief, and grief is

721
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 5: a human emotion that we will all feel, but we

722
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 5: don't experience it in community, and we need to. We

723
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: need to give space to each other, even if like

724
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 5: a very good friend of mine, Wes, I remember when

725
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 5: I was dealing with AJ's death, he would just sit

726
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 5: on the phone with me and I would just cry.

727
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 5: And that meant so much. You know, It's a simple act,

728
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 5: but a lot of people we run like I have

729
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 5: a friend who lost to a child like two days

730
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 5: before her due date, and I remember running away because

731
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 5: I was just like, oh, this is too much. I

732
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 5: don't know what to do, and I did nothing. She

733
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 5: needed friendship, and I ran away because I was like, oh,

734
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 5: this is too heavy. So we have to get past

735
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 5: ourselves to be able to be in community with other

736
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 5: people when they're in grief, and so, you know, it.

737
00:41:54,160 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 3: Feels heavy sometimes. But also to be able to grieve.

738
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 5: Means that you've loved, And the harder you grieve, the

739
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 5: more deeply you loved.

740
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: And I think that's such a beautiful thing.

741
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, deeply. Well, what are some ways that people can

742
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: grieve better or help another in grief? I think that

743
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: is a big struggle for so many people one, you know,

744
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: just we never know where anyone is at emotionally right

745
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: and what they're suppressing. And you know, sometimes I think

746
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: for so many of us, when hard experiences come, we

747
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: can be surprised at quote unquote who isn't there for us?

748
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: Right?

749
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 2: But everyone has process, you know, and everyone has their limits.

750
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: And so for anybody listening, what is a way to

751
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: really show up in grief for someone else?

752
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think listening. Listening is so undered. Stop trying

753
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 5: to fix people's problems. Yeah, say that, just listen. If

754
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 5: you're in the same city, offer to go to their house,

755
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 5: offer to have them over to your house. Because sometimes

756
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 5: people just need to get out of their space.

757
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: Yea.

758
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 5: And I think checking in consistently even if they're not responding,

759
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 5: like reminding people that you're there. I've got a lot

760
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 5: of friends recently going through things who just shut down,

761
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 5: shut people out, and I'm just like, just know, I'm

762
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 5: always here, Like I don't know what everybody else is doing,

763
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 5: but I'm always here to listen. You can always come

764
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 5: to my house, you know, if you need me, I'm

765
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 5: going to always be able to get on a plane

766
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 5: and show up. But I think primarily it's listening. The

767
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 5: other thing that I recommend, Anderson Cooper has an incredible

768
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 5: podcast about grief that he made after his mother died. Incredible,

769
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 5: like for me, life changing because that idea of you're

770
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 5: not alone, like he just he captures it so well

771
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 5: through his interviews and the studies and the research he does.

772
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 3: But I highly.

773
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 5: Recommend that podcast. I've shared it with so many people.

774
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 5: But yeah, listening to that podcast, but listening to your

775
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 5: friends and just creating safe spaces. I feel like those

776
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 5: words are overused, but it's so real. Creating a space

777
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 5: where someone knows they can pick up the phone, they

778
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 5: can come over and they can just go on and

779
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 5: on and on and on and on and you're not

780
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 5: trying to fix it.

781
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

782
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 2: There's such like a sacredness to us growing our capacity

783
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: to bear witness, you know, like life actually requires so

784
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 2: little of us. Like the things we think are solutions

785
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: most likely are not. It's our own stuff. But it

786
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: takes like real presence and courage and capacity to bear

787
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 2: witness to another while doing nothing else but holding the

788
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: space and looking with intention and being present.

789
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 5: And not being on your phone and not being like

790
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 5: not showing distraction but fully being present.

791
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, with your schedule and with your you know,

792
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 2: adventure and exploration, how do you make time or space

793
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: for grief in your life?

794
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 4: Now?

795
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 5: The thing is, grief comes and it will take the space,

796
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 5: you know, so and I honor it. If I wake

797
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 5: up in the middle of the night and I'm sobbing,

798
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 5: I honor that and I lean in and I might

799
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 5: play a sad song, you know, just to like help

800
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 5: it get.

801
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 3: Out and move through me.

802
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: You know.

803
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 5: I've I've been on a meditation journey. Today was day

804
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 5: fifty what yes, day fifties, Thank you, And like creating

805
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 5: that space in the morning to just you know, clear

806
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 5: my head, acknowledge everything. It makes me create space throughout

807
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 5: the day as well. And so I just think when

808
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 5: grief comes tapping me on my shoulder, I'm like, hello, okay,

809
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 5: let's sit together, let's have a hang, you know. And

810
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 5: I think because of that, it moves in and out.

811
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 5: It's a journey. It's like it's never going to be over.

812
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 5: But I also think, you know, in the beginning, typically

813
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 5: it's quite debilitating. And I, you know, I was debilitated,

814
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 5: and you know that my book was coming out to

815
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 5: three months after that, and I struggled. I really really

816
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 5: struggled that whole time. But I also wreck like I

817
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 5: realized I was pretty useless. So I remember I had

818
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 5: to record my audio book at that time, and I

819
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 5: was in the depths of grieving. I remember one time

820
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 5: in the studio I told the and I was like,

821
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, and I'm just like I need a moment,

822
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 5: and I just laid on the floor in the booth

823
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 5: and I was just like, I can't push through.

824
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: That was the thing.

825
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 5: We're always like, push through, push that. I'm like, I can't.

826
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 5: I don't want to, you know. So I cancel things

827
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 5: quite often because at the end of the day, I

828
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 5: am primary, right me. Yes, my wellness is primary. It's

829
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 5: not an interview, it's not a job opportunity, it is

830
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 5: nothing else.

831
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: It is me.

832
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 5: It is the people that I love that come first

833
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 5: and foremost. So I'm always happy to cancel because I'm primary.

834
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 5: I'm not a medical doctor. There are no emergencies here.

835
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 5: Everything can happen at another time, and if it's supposed to,

836
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 5: it will, and if it's not, that's fine too.

837
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: But that's kind of how I move now.

838
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Let they give permission to everyone, to

839
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: everyone who needs it. Yeah. Agree. Is it's a lifelong exploration,

840
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: you know, it really is. This past January, I've realized

841
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: it was the twenty first anniversary of one of my

842
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 2: best friends being murdered. And I found my I mean

843
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: I cry no matter what there I mean, I probably

844
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: cried once a week about this, easily, And it's been

845
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: twenty one years, like easily once a week, if not more,

846
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: but definitely around that time of his death anniversary, his birthday,

847
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: and this year was the first time that I found

848
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: myself like I cried so hard that it made me laugh,

849
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: Like I cried so hard that it made.

850
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 6: Me laugh and call out to him and be like.

851
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: Your ass got me crying this hard twenty one years later,

852
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: and then I just start laughing at kind of the

853
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: beauty of that of something that could mean so much

854
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: no matter how brief it was. He's been gone much

855
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: longer than I knew him. But how special to have

856
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: a bond that strong even in death, right, Like to

857
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: feel that connection so strong and tethered to you and

858
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: your emotion and you're in two different planes, You're in

859
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: two you're occupying two different spaces. It's quite beautiful, it

860
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: really is. It's quite quite powerful.

861
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: And I believe those bonds.

862
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 5: I'm like, I know I'll see you again, yeah, And

863
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 5: I know we'll be in the same space again. It

864
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 5: will look different, but I'm like, i know we'll be

865
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 5: in the same space at the same time again.

866
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. M that's so thank you, thank you, thank you,

867
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,959
Speaker 2: thank you. Yeah, we needed that, and thank you for

868
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: the generosity and sharing it. I want to take us

869
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: one more place while I have you before you get

870
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 2: on another plane. So one of the things that I

871
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: love so much about witnessing you online and in your

872
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: work is just your beauty, like your vibrancy, your fashion,

873
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: your food, your everything feels in your life, whether it's

874
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: on your body or in your home.

875
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: Just so alive, so alive.

876
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: How has your style and really sense of style expanded

877
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: through your travels.

878
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 6: And how do you choose?

879
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: How do you pick the things that will adorn you

880
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: and adorn your spaces?

881
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 3: I love that so much, Thank you.

882
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 5: So I grew up in a home with parents that

883
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 5: were focused on aesthetics solely. Yeah, so, like my mom

884
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 5: and dad dressed down, you know, like I used to

885
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 5: remember they would always go to parties or they would

886
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 5: host parties at our home, and they were always dressed

887
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 5: like I wear some of my mom's old dresses sometimes

888
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 5: because they're just so beautiful and timeless. And you know,

889
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 5: when we were little, she used to dress us up,

890
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 5: you know, the pigtails, the lacey dresses and all of it.

891
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 5: You know those sacks, yeah, with the full floor. Really

892
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 5: we all have them. And so I've always sort of

893
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 5: had an eye to fashion. So when I graduated high school,

894
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 5: I won class trendy. That was my superlative, Oh my god.

895
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 5: And so I've always just been.

896
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 3: Aware of how I looked.

897
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 5: You know, I'm not somewhere someone who wears sweatpants and

898
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 5: things like that, because I'm just like, well, putting on

899
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 5: a dress takes actually less effort than putting on a

900
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 5: hoodie in sweatpants, and I feel comfortable. And so my

901
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 5: sister is like, I'm consistently overdressed, and I'm like, that's okay,

902
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 5: Like I feel comfortable. You know, I don't feel like

903
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 5: I'm doing too much. I think a lot of people

904
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 5: look at me and think I put way more effort

905
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 5: into what I look like than I actually do.

906
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: I rarely wear.

907
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 5: Makeup, and part of that is like just you know,

908
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 5: growing up as a dark skinned person in America is tough, right.

909
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 5: Growing up African in America was no easy feet And

910
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 5: for a long time, I felt bad about the way

911
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 5: I looked. I felt bad about my skin tone, all

912
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 5: of the things. And in my mid twenties, you know,

913
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 5: i'd suffered with depression for a very long time, and

914
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 5: you know, go in and out, but I just was like,

915
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 5: this is what I look like, and that's it. So

916
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 5: I can either like it or not like it, but like,

917
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 5: you might as well just get with it, because you're

918
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 5: not There's nothing to do that you can't change it right,

919
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 5: Like I didn't, you know, I was in my twenties,

920
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 5: so I wasn't like I'm gonna get plastic surgery. There

921
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 5: was none of that. I wasn't bleaching my skin. I

922
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 5: was just like, this is what it is. This is

923
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 5: how we're going to roll with it, you know. Like

924
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 5: I shaved my head in eight because I was moving

925
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 5: to Japan and I didn't know how to do my

926
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 5: own hair, and I was like, well, this is what

927
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 5: we gotta do, and so I just shaved my head

928
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 5: and it stuck. And like I've got braids last year,

929
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 5: and I had them for like four months, and I

930
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 5: shaved them off because I was like, I don't feel

931
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 5: like myself anymore. And so I've just gotten to a

932
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 5: point where I'm just really happy with me. And then

933
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 5: besides that, I'm obsessed with color, like it I did

934
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 5: a Marie Condo's method and I got rid of like

935
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 5: eighty percent of the black things that I own. So

936
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 5: I have almost zero black clothing. Everything I have is

937
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 5: brightly colored. Like I can't even help it. I don't

938
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 5: even think about it. It's just it's who I am.

939
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 5: And so when it comes to my spaces, I recently

940
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 5: bought a place in Senegal and I want to decorate.

941
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 3: But like I can't.

942
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 5: I have to go physically into the space to decide

943
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 5: the color and things like that, because for me, it's like,

944
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 5: what's the energy here and what does it feel like?

945
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: And then I want to create a space that embodies that.

946
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 5: So one thing I love, whether it was like my

947
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 5: place in West Hollywood or Detroit, people come in and

948
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 5: they're like, oh, it feels so comfortable, it feels so homey,

949
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 5: but it also feels like me. So I think how

950
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 5: my travel has sort of enhanced that is, like I

951
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 5: get clothes made when I'm abroad.

952
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: I get a lot of jewelry when I.

953
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 5: Travel, But I see myself everywhere, even if I'm in

954
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 5: India or I'm in Iran, Like I can see myself

955
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 5: in the clothing in the wardrobe, and I can sort

956
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 5: of like blend in and that I just see myself

957
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 5: everywhere in the world and feel like I can be

958
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 5: a part of everywhere and everything can be a part

959
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 5: of me.

960
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: If that makes sense. That is so beautiful.

961
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. At the end of every episode, I

962
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: like to invite our guests to share a little soul

963
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: work so that is something to help everyone integrate what

964
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: they've heard, what they've experienced in this conversation, and that

965
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: they can take with them and apply. And sometimes that

966
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: looks like a journal prompt or an activity, a thought,

967
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: an exercise, But what would be some soul work and

968
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: maybe you know some of the things that are so

969
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 2: resonant in what you have beautifully been sharing in this episode,

970
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: it's the courage to live in freedom, right, And it's

971
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: like the courage to really stand in the fact that

972
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: you don't have to have limitations in any way, you know,

973
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: and you're painting and you're weaving this tapestry of your life.

974
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: How can people connect to that kind of innate essence

975
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: of you?

976
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm going to give two things. First, I just

977
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 5: want people to really interrogate their fear. Interrogate your fear.

978
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 5: So whether it's a fear of flying, whether it's a

979
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 5: fear of quitting the job, no matter what it is, like,

980
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 5: write it down. What is this fear that I have interrogated?

981
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 5: Why is it there? What are you afraid of? Like,

982
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 5: really ask you figure it out? What are you afraid of? Okay,

983
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 5: I'm afraid to go to Colombia? Why are you afraid

984
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 5: to go to Columbia and do that exercise and just

985
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 5: go deeper, deeper, deeper, Because I think what you then

986
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 5: find out is you can't answer it. So if you

987
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 5: can't answer why you have the fear, why is it there?

988
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 5: It's just they're blocking you. So I would say that's first.

989
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 3: Second.

990
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 5: The Four Agreements don miguelv Ruye's, you know, always do

991
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 5: your best, being peccable with your word, don't make assumptions,

992
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 5: don't take anything personally. It's so hard to live by that,

993
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 5: but I'm constantly running that in my head, like whether

994
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 5: it's dating, dealing with people, dealing with brands, dealing with

995
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 5: work stuff, It's like, am I making an assumption?

996
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 7: Yeah?

997
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 5: Okay, can I ask a question instead of trying to

998
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 5: create the conclusion? You know, I think the Four Agreements,

999
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 5: it's a quick read, but it's something that we should

1000
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 5: all be reading once a quarter. Is something that we

1001
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 5: should reference throughout the rest of our life because I

1002
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 5: feel like if we can really get those principles down,

1003
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 5: like we can live whole, beautiful, free lives.

1004
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: M thank you, thank you. I've been looking on your

1005
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 2: stories lately and I see you getting a lot of

1006
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: recipes in other countries. What is the next book that

1007
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: we can expect.

1008
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the next book is called Catch Me in

1009
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 3: the Kitchen. It's a global cookbook.

1010
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1011
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 3: So it's going to be one.

1012
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 5: Recipe from every country in the world, one hundred and

1013
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 5: ninety five recipes.

1014
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 6: Wow.

1015
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a massive undertaking. But it's the first time

1016
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,919
Speaker 5: a major publisher is doing anything like this. So it's

1017
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 5: with National Geographic again and it's going to be a

1018
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 5: culinary bible.

1019
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1020
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: How amazing.

1021
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: So excited.

1022
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: Congratulations and thank you for doing it.

1023
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1024
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.

1025
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 3: So fall twenty twenty six.

1026
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 5: We're a long way out, but it's gonna come quicker

1027
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 5: than we realize. Yeah, but it's been it's been such

1028
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 5: a beautiful journey. And more than anything, I'm excited to

1029
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 5: like disrupt the conversation in the food world because in

1030
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 5: terms of hierarchy, everyone thinks of like European cuisine and

1031
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, no, no, The only reason you think

1032
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 5: that is because you haven't actually.

1033
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: Explored the world. So let's have that conversation.

1034
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 5: So I'm excited to have those conversations in the food

1035
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 5: world and sort of shakes it up.

1036
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: Obsessed yes, thank you. Yes, everyone that wants to connect

1037
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 2: more with Jessica and her just incredible, rare, beautiful life,

1038
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: scroll down into the show notes and you can get

1039
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: the book. Check her out on Instagram website. All of

1040
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: the Things is waiting for you, a little treasure shove.

1041
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me on this show.

1042
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: Having it has been amazing, grateful, thank you.

1043
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: Thank you. We'll be back next now, Mistayday. The content

1044
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes.

1045
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical

1046
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: or mental health guidance, and does not constitute a provider

1047
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 2: patient relationship. As always, it is advisable to consult with

1048
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: your healthcare provider or health team for any specific concerns

1049
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 2: or questions that you may have. Connect with me on

1050
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 2: social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you

1051
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 2: can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And

1052
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 2: if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget.

1053
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to

1054
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: a friend. Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and

1055
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacques Thomas, Samantha Timmins,

1056
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard. That's

1057
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 2: by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1058
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your

1059
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: favorite shows.