Speaker 1: Welcome to Go ask Ali, a production of Shonda Land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio hi em Eli
Speaker 1: went Worth, and you're listening to Go ask Ali. Where
Speaker 1: this season, I'm asking the question how do you grow
Speaker 1: a teenager in a pandemic? More than ever, teenagers are
Speaker 1: spending an enormous amount of time online and one of
Speaker 1: the scariest manifestations of that is the fear of them
Speaker 1: being lured into an unsafe situation. The Internet enabled a
Speaker 1: new era of child sexual abuse, and today we're discussing grooming,
Speaker 1: sex torsion and how to best protect our kids from
Speaker 1: falling victim to predators in a digital world. Here to
Speaker 1: talk to me today is Julie Cordoa, the CEO of
Speaker 1: Thorn and International Anti human Trafficking organization co founded by
Speaker 1: Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore and dedicated to building technolog
Speaker 1: aology to defend children from sexual abuse. But before I
Speaker 1: speak with Julie, I've invited my friends Audrey McDermott and
Speaker 1: Anna pay to twenty three year old who have graciously
Speaker 1: agreed to have a candid conversation with me about some
Speaker 1: of the things going on in the teen world that
Speaker 1: parents may not know about. Recently, Anna brought something up
Speaker 1: that I found particularly alarming, and it actually prompted this episode.
Speaker 1: As a teen, she received three dollars from a stranger
Speaker 1: in exchange for a photograph of her feet. Do I
Speaker 1: have that right? Anna? I wish it was that much.
Speaker 1: It was less. Unfortunately it was five dollars. Alright, Yes,
Speaker 1: but yes, I think if I had found potentially more
Speaker 1: impressive clientele, I could have received in the three hundred range.
Speaker 1: I know my friends have sent their shoes for thousands
Speaker 1: of dollars. Okay, okay for before we get ahead of
Speaker 1: ourselves and make every teenager want to do this. How
Speaker 1: were you even educated about the possibility of doing this?
Speaker 1: How did somebody reach you? And how did you know
Speaker 1: to photograph your feet and get money for them? Because
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna this is gonna take us to
Speaker 1: a dark place. So I'm starting in the PG version. So, um,
Speaker 1: I guess my story begins when I was sixteen years
Speaker 1: old or so, when I wanted to sell some some
Speaker 1: shoes that I had from middle school online, and I
Speaker 1: went and I posted like my flats and things like
Speaker 1: that that I was no longer really wearing anymore. So
Speaker 1: I post them on like Craigslist and Facebook, Marketplace and
Speaker 1: some weird niche apps for start buying and selling things. Um,
Speaker 1: because I was a broke tchanger, I really wanted to
Speaker 1: buy more bundle packs something like that so I could
Speaker 1: play my video games. Um. So I finally got some
Speaker 1: some responses for my shoes, and at first it was like, great, fantastic,
Speaker 1: these are clearly worthwhile for other people. But then the
Speaker 1: messages got a little weird. I was now suddenly requested
Speaker 1: to to send photos of my feet along with the shoes,
Speaker 1: and would you say were finishes that were? I think
Speaker 1: I think that that is what we were dealing with. Indeed, Um,
Speaker 1: I told Audrey's a Joke, who was very alarmed and
Speaker 1: told her mother, who was even more alarmed, who called
Speaker 1: me and said, how much money do you need? You
Speaker 1: cannot sell your shoes online? Um, which honestly made me
Speaker 1: want to sell them even more. Yes, because you're sixteen
Speaker 1: and you're rebellious in a risk taker. Well no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. First first to fact check what happened was
Speaker 1: he said, can we you can pictures with them? And
Speaker 1: I said no, very intelligently, because they wanted them for free,
Speaker 1: and she knows what her feet are worth with their photographed.
Speaker 1: And then they said, would you mind wearing the shoes
Speaker 1: a couple more times before I picked them up, and
Speaker 1: she said, yeah, that's fine, assuming that he wanted them
Speaker 1: worn in for his girlfriend or something like you're very trusting.
Speaker 1: And then finally the final straw, as he said, when
Speaker 1: I picked them up, can I take them off your feet?
Speaker 1: And then such a good memory. Yeah, these are crazy stories,
Speaker 1: and Anna people would remember the story, we would remember.
Speaker 1: That has completely slipped my mind. But honestly, that's why
Speaker 1: the sale fell through, because you said no, you can't
Speaker 1: touch my feet, so there wasn't even though you were
Speaker 1: a rebellious teenager, you did have some boundaries. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: didn't do the sale. First of all, there's a huge
Speaker 1: difference between like feet pictures and selling your nudes. The
Speaker 1: first thing I would say, because we walk around and
Speaker 1: sandals all simmer and no one seems to care um
Speaker 1: slash like. I don't find that as sexualized part of
Speaker 1: the body. I've never engaged in any of it, and
Speaker 1: as my bridge to that side of the world, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of over on the more conservative side of things.
Speaker 1: But the other thing I would say too, is with
Speaker 1: stuff like Only Fans. There are girls from my high
Speaker 1: school that are on Only Fans like and I don't
Speaker 1: know how much money they're making, but I think what's
Speaker 1: tough is it does glamorize when you read about like
Speaker 1: people like Bella Thorne, who's like a you know, former
Speaker 1: Disney star turned Netflix movie star. She made like two
Speaker 1: million dollars the first day she opened up her Only
Speaker 1: Fans where she was selling pictures of her boobs And
Speaker 1: can you just wait, I'm grandma Moses. What is only
Speaker 1: fans dot com? I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a crazy account. It's basically like a
Speaker 1: form of social media where people subscribe to see you
Speaker 1: posting your nudes. And people not only nudes, it's just
Speaker 1: posting like a personal arsenal of content that videos photos
Speaker 1: but usually knew it's because that's what people pay for typically.
Speaker 1: Is it celebrities doing this? It's celebrities. It's real life
Speaker 1: down you know, your neighbors, neighbors. Yes, Um, let me
Speaker 1: ask you guys a question. Have you ever looked at
Speaker 1: the dark web before? Have you ever gone to the
Speaker 1: dark Web? I've watched YouTube videos of people going into
Speaker 1: the darker web. You know that you can you can
Speaker 1: buy sell anything heroin, guns, child porns, and credit cards, artwork, um,
Speaker 1: fake I d s. So you know my concern is
Speaker 1: that almost like the feet picture, that they can dangle
Speaker 1: the carrot of hey, how did you like a really
Speaker 1: uh real looking fake ID? And the teenager goes, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: because then I can you know, go to clubs and
Speaker 1: then you go down that path and before you know it,
Speaker 1: you know you're in some weird sex trafficking thing just
Speaker 1: new to you. I mean, I'm terrifying. I love that
Speaker 1: the I love the reactions. It's sort of I feel
Speaker 1: like you're my own soundtrack to that. But you guys
Speaker 1: haven't been in the dark web. I haven't either, but
Speaker 1: it's always every parents nightmare. But you do have cautionary
Speaker 1: tales of people that have um been used and ended
Speaker 1: up in the dark web. And Audrey, I know you
Speaker 1: have a story which I think is the most terrifying
Speaker 1: story I've ever heard. Will you tell it? Um? Yes,
Speaker 1: I would love to. I heard a really cautionary tale
Speaker 1: about a girl my freshman year of college who one
Speaker 1: of my friends was at school this girl lived in
Speaker 1: her dorm. She ran into her in the hallway one day.
Speaker 1: She was hysterically sobbing, and she pulled her aside and said,
Speaker 1: you know what's going on? Maybe November of her freshman
Speaker 1: year UM and the girls the same year, and she said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm leaving campus US and I don't know when
Speaker 1: I'll be back because someone basically put out a hit
Speaker 1: on me on the dark web and it had teared
Speaker 1: financial like responses. So it was like dollars for murdering her,
Speaker 1: twenty dollars if you assault her first thirty if you
Speaker 1: film it like horrible, horrible things that were literally every
Speaker 1: person's nightmare. And the girl had to get the FBI involved.
Speaker 1: She wasn't even a US citizen. She had to be
Speaker 1: evacuated from her US campus. I mean, I would say
Speaker 1: that is definitely not a normal story. It ended up
Speaker 1: being some crazy ex boyfriend and thankfully she's safe and
Speaker 1: nothing ever happened to her. How did she even know
Speaker 1: that she was on the dark web being advertised like that?
Speaker 1: So someone stumbled this is the thing that's so surprising
Speaker 1: in me. She had a friend who was coincidentally on
Speaker 1: the dark web just surfing around seeing what was for sale.
Speaker 1: I don't think participating in buying you know, tigers or
Speaker 1: Heroin hopefully, but who knows. And I saw her picture
Speaker 1: because it had her photo, her dorm address, all of
Speaker 1: her information posted, literally miraculously stumbled across it and immediately
Speaker 1: alerted her, and she intern alert at the school, who
Speaker 1: alerted the FBI, who put her into protection until she
Speaker 1: was safe. But the Internet is like the biggest platform
Speaker 1: in the world, and the dark web is like anything,
Speaker 1: it can be abused. I mean, it can't really be
Speaker 1: used for good, um, but it can definitely be used.
Speaker 1: I call the dark Web the evil twin of the Internet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably pretty accurate. Revenge porn is another
Speaker 1: thing that keeps popping up. How does a girl guard
Speaker 1: herself from anything that results in that, either male or
Speaker 1: female X Well, I think a couple of things. One
Speaker 1: that it's kind of like safe sex, Like the best
Speaker 1: thing you could do is abstinence and just not take
Speaker 1: photos of yourself or videos of yourself being a good
Speaker 1: because if it doesn't exist, they can't post it when
Speaker 1: you don't, you know whatever. And the final thing that
Speaker 1: you just shouldn't send picture is two boys because they're assholes.
Speaker 1: But I think that there are like tears of justice
Speaker 1: that can be enacted. But I mean, unfortunately, like you know,
Speaker 1: when you're young and I love, you trust people and
Speaker 1: they can't exploit that. Have you guys sent nude pictures,
Speaker 1: even faceless ones. I'm not gonna lie. I've only done
Speaker 1: it once, which I feel like it's kind of shocking
Speaker 1: for my personality. I'm pretty, I'm really sex positive and
Speaker 1: I love, um, you know, just embracing my body and
Speaker 1: you know, promoting female empower empowerment through uh, embracing our bodies.
Speaker 1: But now when it comes to nudes, I've always been
Speaker 1: really kind of freaked out. You can be you can
Speaker 1: be sex positive and yeah, my body myself, but you know,
Speaker 1: like we we were just talking about, you just you
Speaker 1: don't know what people will do with it so exactly.
Speaker 1: But is that a norm? Is that something that you
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that do that? Is that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely think that a lot of my
Speaker 1: friends do it much more liberally than I do. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would say we are probably in the minority of
Speaker 1: girls who have only done in one, one or two times.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of guys. If a girl
Speaker 1: they're hooking up what sends a nude and they mentioned
Speaker 1: it to their friend, their friend will often say oh really,
Speaker 1: and then it'll gets texted around. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: often posted in an online setting that a random person
Speaker 1: could stumble across. But I I've seen in high school
Speaker 1: and in college, like boys have like locked apps where
Speaker 1: you know there's the secret those And I've seen girls
Speaker 1: who I know never slept with that guy or sent
Speaker 1: that guy a photo on my kid's phone. Do people
Speaker 1: do people do video sex? I mean yes, and what happened?
Speaker 1: They wait? What you you? You meet somebody online and
Speaker 1: then you have video sex? Oh god, I people do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people do that, and I don't. I did not do that.
Speaker 1: I wanted that clear. I have not done that. That's
Speaker 1: that's problematic to me. That that, to me, is something
Speaker 1: that could somehow get you into trouble. No, because I'm
Speaker 1: not advocating for that for any teenagers at all. As
Speaker 1: a nanny, this should never happen. Not let your children
Speaker 1: on the internet. Which brings me to this question for
Speaker 1: both of you, how do you think your generation will
Speaker 1: parent their kids their teens when it comes to some
Speaker 1: social Internet. I've thought a lot about this, I really,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so torn. Um. I discovered horn when I
Speaker 1: was in the fourth grade. Um because I tried to
Speaker 1: spell jessin mcartney Radio Disney. I butchered it somehow. I
Speaker 1: asked my nanny, who did not speak English, to help
Speaker 1: me out, and she, um somehow felled it in a
Speaker 1: way that came up Jessine McCartney need photos in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form um. And so going on there was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: what is this? Did you on introspect? Very? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was, well what is I mean? Your kid? Kids
Speaker 1: are exploring their bodies, especially during these ages, and so
Speaker 1: I had no idea idea what a penis was? What
Speaker 1: is this appendage on this male who I admires body.
Speaker 1: Taught me a lot about how I'm going to teach
Speaker 1: my child to use the internet, and when the child
Speaker 1: is going to be using the internet. I think, realistically,
Speaker 1: kids are going to be using the computers much earlier
Speaker 1: than I did, to be honest, especially my own children.
Speaker 1: As a parent, I'm going to just talk to my child. Frankly,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say, you know, these are things that
Speaker 1: are on the Internet. I'm not going to hide it
Speaker 1: from you. There are things like this. I don't think
Speaker 1: you should watch it. It's not appropriate for you. You
Speaker 1: can watch another time when you're much older and it exists.
Speaker 1: But I don't want my child to stumble upon that,
Speaker 1: be confused, and then go behind my back to talk
Speaker 1: to other kids or other parents about it when it
Speaker 1: is a conversation that's obviously not going to be easy,
Speaker 1: but it's necessary to have. So I agree with Anna.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't kids in the internet. I don't
Speaker 1: like even know how to have a kid like, like
Speaker 1: I'm still in the birds and the bees confusion, Like
Speaker 1: I have no idea how I'm gonna raise them. I
Speaker 1: don't have a parenting philosophy yet. But I mean I
Speaker 1: was introduced to porn out of like co ed hangout
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, where a boy opened up a
Speaker 1: computer and was like this is and it was terrifying,
Speaker 1: and that it's a horrifying experience. I do think that
Speaker 1: you want to have like an open communication on that stuff.
Speaker 1: My parents had a thing with us we were growing
Speaker 1: up where if you did something wrong or you made
Speaker 1: a mistake, if you came to them, you could have
Speaker 1: infinite things called amnesty. So you just go to them,
Speaker 1: You go like amnesty, and it was like the equivalent of,
Speaker 1: you know, protection from the UN that you weren't tried
Speaker 1: as a war criminal and exchange for your compliance. And
Speaker 1: I broke the massive, you know, thirteenth century pot in
Speaker 1: the hallway. I'm so sorry, knowing that they were going
Speaker 1: to find out eventually anyways, but it developed this habit
Speaker 1: of coming to them when you're like, I'm scared, I
Speaker 1: screwed up, I'm confused. I sent a nude. Now I'm
Speaker 1: hearing this rumor about him, about this boy sending it.
Speaker 1: What do I do? And you know, I think that
Speaker 1: was instrumental in me figuring out how to run the
Speaker 1: deal with the internet. Make it comfortable and free for
Speaker 1: your kids to come to you right and and make
Speaker 1: it like there's no consequences. I mean, obviously, the thing
Speaker 1: is kids know more about like what's safe and what's right,
Speaker 1: and what's like the conservative mature choice. We're not going
Speaker 1: to make that choice most of the time, but we
Speaker 1: know what the right one is. So the lecture is
Speaker 1: usually skippable, I mean, have a couple of conversations around it,
Speaker 1: but I do think that there's a way to like
Speaker 1: be a parent that knows what your kids online presence
Speaker 1: looks like without suffocating them. And that's what I would
Speaker 1: encourage people to strive for. You just have to kind
Speaker 1: of prepare so that if something God forbid does happen
Speaker 1: like that your child trusts to know that they can
Speaker 1: come to you and know that if something really scary
Speaker 1: it happens to them, that you will be there for
Speaker 1: them and that you'll protect them as much as you can.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Audrey McDermott and Annape. I hope my daughters
Speaker 1: grow up to be like you. You guys are strong,
Speaker 1: amazing women. And thank you so much for being on
Speaker 1: my podcast, and thank you for helping me grow my
Speaker 1: teenage girls. I adore you. Thank you, my mama. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a short break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Welcome back with more. Go ask Alli and now on
Speaker 1: to today's expert, Julie Cordoa. Julie is the CEO of
Speaker 1: Thorn That's t h o r N, a nonprofit that
Speaker 1: works to address a sexual exploitation of children. As digital
Speaker 1: Defenders of Children, Thorn has been doing an incredible job
Speaker 1: equipping tech companies with the tools to eliminate child sexual
Speaker 1: abuse materials from the Internet. Julie, you guys are doing
Speaker 1: the work that should be praised and admire for centuries
Speaker 1: to come. Thank you for joining me on go ask
Speaker 1: Gali and and right off the bat, can you start
Speaker 1: by sharing the initial genesis of the nonprofit Thorn, How
Speaker 1: it started, why it started? Sure? Yeah, Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: thank you, um for having me. I'm always grateful for
Speaker 1: the opportunity to talk about this because sometimes these are
Speaker 1: uncomfortable subjects, so making them comfortable is the first battle
Speaker 1: that we all need to do so we can talk
Speaker 1: about this more and get it out of the darkness. Um.
Speaker 1: So yes, Thorn was created almost ten years ago now
Speaker 1: Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore. They were starting their philanthropic
Speaker 1: journey trying to better understand child sex trafficking. They had
Speaker 1: seen a documentary about it happening in Southeast Asia and
Speaker 1: then started to do some research in the issue and
Speaker 1: realized it was happening here in the United States as well.
Speaker 1: Um And as they dug deeper, they really wanted to
Speaker 1: understand what were some of kind of the risk factors
Speaker 1: and trends and what was making children more vulnerable and
Speaker 1: really think about how they could use their unique talents
Speaker 1: and networks and assets to make a difference. And I
Speaker 1: joined them early in that journey. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that we saw when we spent about a year
Speaker 1: or more out talking to survivors, law enforcement, nonprofits, government,
Speaker 1: was this intense and emerging role that technology was playing,
Speaker 1: not just in child sex trafficking, but in the growth
Speaker 1: of UH. Technology facilitated child sexual abuse. And while you
Speaker 1: were seeing this growing role of technology and abusing kids UH,
Speaker 1: there was no concentrated effort to actually use technology in
Speaker 1: a way to stop that abuse, to protect them, to
Speaker 1: prevent it. And so that was the genesis of Thorn
Speaker 1: was looking at, Okay, how do we bring the best
Speaker 1: and brightest minds and technology to bear on behalf of
Speaker 1: some of the world's most vulnerable children and UM and
Speaker 1: that was the birth of Thorn. Yeah. It's so interesting
Speaker 1: because I was talking on a panel in Silicon Valley
Speaker 1: to a lot of big tech company people about exploitation
Speaker 1: of girls on Instagram, which to me is a big issue.
Speaker 1: I just I I fear for it. And afterwards, a
Speaker 1: lot of the people that work at these tech companies
Speaker 1: came up to me and they said, you have no
Speaker 1: idea how bad it is, and we won't let our
Speaker 1: children do it. And I thought, oh, well, thanks for
Speaker 1: keeping it to yourself. And the other thing is that
Speaker 1: I've noticed with when you talk about sex, try picking.
Speaker 1: And my eighteen year old is um she's the one
Speaker 1: that told me about thorn, and she's she's a big
Speaker 1: activist and she, you know, she said, the thing about
Speaker 1: sex trafficking is when I discuss it in clubs and
Speaker 1: at school, everybody thinks it's an international problem. They don't
Speaker 1: think it's a national problem. You know. People always say, oh,
Speaker 1: the sex trafficking, you know, oh that's in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: or that it's like no, no, no, no no, that's right
Speaker 1: next door. Thank you for thorn. And here's I know
Speaker 1: this is going to be a scary answer, but what
Speaker 1: are the current statistics of sexual abuse online? Yeah? I mean,
Speaker 1: what we do know is that the trade of child
Speaker 1: sexual abuse material is skyrocketing. So in the United States
Speaker 1: last year, tech companies reported over sixteen million reports of
Speaker 1: images and videos documenting the sexual abuse of a child.
Speaker 1: Six million m HM. That's in just the United States.
Speaker 1: UM and that's only what was found, so right, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's the tip of an iceberg. Um. As far
Speaker 1: as how much grooming is happening or how much such
Speaker 1: stortion is happening, the numbers are really hard to come
Speaker 1: by because most kids don't talk about so how you know,
Speaker 1: how how do you measure something that no one's going
Speaker 1: to bring to the surface. And so what we do
Speaker 1: know is that law enforcement is telling us that the
Speaker 1: number of cases they're working for grooming and sextortion is
Speaker 1: on the rise. So we're seeing a bigger trend. But
Speaker 1: is that, um, that's only what's getting reported, right, So, uh,
Speaker 1: we know it's it's a growing problem. How big it
Speaker 1: is is really hard to measure. How is the presence
Speaker 1: and prevalence of child abuse online evolved since Thorn We
Speaker 1: work on child sex trafficking and we also work on
Speaker 1: the issue of child sexual abuse material, which um is
Speaker 1: the same as child pornography. In the law, it's written
Speaker 1: as child pornography, but we don't call it that because
Speaker 1: it is the furthest thing from any type of pornography.
Speaker 1: It is documentation of the abuse of a child. In
Speaker 1: both of those areas, the market it has just skyrocketed.
Speaker 1: And and really that's over the last two decades, not
Speaker 1: just over the last nine years that we've been working
Speaker 1: on this. And there's a couple of reasons why. I mean,
Speaker 1: you you take crimes that used to be very hidden,
Speaker 1: and it was very difficult to participate in them. So
Speaker 1: if you were someone who had, you know, a thought
Speaker 1: about abusing a child or getting your hands on images
Speaker 1: or videos of children being abused, it took a lot.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of barriers to try to go
Speaker 1: do that, and you probably felt a lot of shame
Speaker 1: and there wasn't really anyone who was going to tell
Speaker 1: you that that was okay. Well, the Internet has really
Speaker 1: removed all those barriers, so it's really easy you within
Speaker 1: a few search clicks, you can find it. And not
Speaker 1: only can you find content, but you can usually find
Speaker 1: communities of people if you try that are gonna tell
Speaker 1: you it's all okay, and they're gonna tell you how
Speaker 1: to get better at finding it. They're going to tell
Speaker 1: you how to groom kids for it. Um And so
Speaker 1: you know, those aspects of the Internet have done the
Speaker 1: same for lots of really good things, right like we
Speaker 1: all confine, you know, recipes that we like in groups
Speaker 1: that like to grow the plants that we like, and
Speaker 1: well it just does the same thing for bad things
Speaker 1: in the world as well. Um so, so we've just
Speaker 1: seen the rate of child sex trafficking increase, but also, uh,
Speaker 1: the volume of child sexual abuse material just skyrocket. How
Speaker 1: is it not against the law? Why aren't there laws
Speaker 1: against this? I mean, I know that the FBI does
Speaker 1: you know, deep dives and and they do make arrest
Speaker 1: and everything, But how is it possible that there there
Speaker 1: isn't a full government agency dedicated to blocking, stopping, arresting
Speaker 1: making this completely criminal all the time? There are um
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, no, no, no, no, it just um
Speaker 1: it is an underground crime. So two factors. One, you
Speaker 1: have to really go look for it, so you know,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of effort to go find the
Speaker 1: people who are engaging in it. And then second it's
Speaker 1: so big. Well, I mean we just can't. We have
Speaker 1: entire task force across this country both focused on child
Speaker 1: sex trafficking and focused on the spread of child sexual
Speaker 1: abuse material, and they're busy all day every day, and
Speaker 1: there's much more out there, uh that needs to be tackled.
Speaker 1: But there are definitely things that you know, while the
Speaker 1: laws are in place, that more resources could be directed
Speaker 1: to addressing these issues for sure. So first of all,
Speaker 1: what is the difference between the deep web versus the
Speaker 1: dark web? Sometimes people use them interchangeably. So for the
Speaker 1: purpose of our discussion, I talk about, uh, the open
Speaker 1: web and the dark web. So the open web are
Speaker 1: the web we use every day, the recipes, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the recipes. How do we can Yeah, it can be indexed,
Speaker 1: so if you Google something, it will show up in
Speaker 1: a Google search result. UM. The deep web, which is
Speaker 1: often conflated with the dark web, but they are different,
Speaker 1: is things that are not indexed. So think about if
Speaker 1: you work at a corporation like your intra net. It's
Speaker 1: not necessarily bad, it's just not indexed on Google, right,
Speaker 1: So it's not it can't it can't be searched. The
Speaker 1: dark web is something different, So not only is that
Speaker 1: not indexed, but it often is fully anonymized and encrypted UM.
Speaker 1: And the dark web often was built for good purposes
Speaker 1: like national security UM, but has been hijacked UM in
Speaker 1: many ways for illegal activity, this air being one of those. Well,
Speaker 1: I've never been on the dark web, but I have
Speaker 1: heard lots of horror stories about UM, people that for
Speaker 1: revenge porn or whatever have put people on the dark Web. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid to even investigate it for my own curiosity.
Speaker 1: I'm just terrified of it, just even saying it. Um.
Speaker 1: But it is where the majority of child sexual material
Speaker 1: is circulated, am I right? So we don't know there
Speaker 1: is a lot. There is a lot there, definitely, um.
Speaker 1: And but the scary thing is there is a lot
Speaker 1: on the open web. So going on these sites that
Speaker 1: we see every single day. So an eight year old boy,
Speaker 1: if he googled boobies, he could pretty much get to
Speaker 1: child pornography pretty quickly, right, Um he if he if
Speaker 1: he google that, Plus you know a few other terms
Speaker 1: that are related to children. Um. Many of these companies
Speaker 1: implement tools to make sure that that type of abuse
Speaker 1: material is removed, but um, sometimes it's it slips through.
Speaker 1: And what is sex torsion? Yeah, it's like extortion, but
Speaker 1: related to uh sex or sexual images. So this is
Speaker 1: where we see when we talk about teens and growing teens,
Speaker 1: really the one of the kind of biggest watch out
Speaker 1: areas right now. So it is essentially someone extorting sexual
Speaker 1: images from you. Or holding something over your head and
Speaker 1: getting you to participate in this type of exploitative behavior,
Speaker 1: usually self generated. So give me an example, will give me,
Speaker 1: give me a story that you've dealt with. Um. Sure,
Speaker 1: so someone meets a stranger on mine. So perhaps you
Speaker 1: were talking about Instagram and you know, maybe the sexualization
Speaker 1: of girls. Someone, Uh, they have a public account, anyone
Speaker 1: could comment on their images. They start commenting on their images.
Speaker 1: They then get into their d m s. These people
Speaker 1: build what they think is a relationship, but they really
Speaker 1: have never met each other. Um, she your heat. It
Speaker 1: happens to girls and boys. UM thinks that this person
Speaker 1: is their friends, so friends them on multiple other social
Speaker 1: media platforms, and then all of a sudden, this person
Speaker 1: starts asking for sexual images. Show me this, show me that.
Speaker 1: They send them an image, and then that person says,
Speaker 1: I need more. I need a video of you doing this.
Speaker 1: And the child says, you know what I've done. I don't,
Speaker 1: And this person says, well, you know what you friended
Speaker 1: me on Facebook. I now have the d m s
Speaker 1: of all your family and everyone you go to school with.
Speaker 1: And if you don't do this, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: all those pictures you just sent me and I'm going
Speaker 1: to send them to everyone in your school, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to send him to your mom. So do it.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this child is in
Speaker 1: a position where they are doing worse and worse documentation
Speaker 1: UM of abuse. And we've seen cases where not only
Speaker 1: is it self production, but where they are then asked
Speaker 1: to abuse a sibling or or someone else um in
Speaker 1: in the home. And you know, any anyone is vulnerable,
Speaker 1: right we we look at it child sex trafficking, and
Speaker 1: that affects you know, we can talk about that at
Speaker 1: another point. Predominantly UM a more at risk population of youth.
Speaker 1: This type of groomming and exploitation can really reach anyone
Speaker 1: who's online. So let's let's talk about that. Who do
Speaker 1: you feel is the most vulnerable to be targeted for
Speaker 1: online grooming or sex sexploitation? Yeah, so UM, for online
Speaker 1: grooming and extortion, it is really any child that is
Speaker 1: on social media or connected device or in a community.
Speaker 1: It doesn't discriminate. So uh, any child that can be
Speaker 1: connected to a stranger or really anyone who might want
Speaker 1: to UM extort them is vulnerable. When we work on
Speaker 1: child sex trafficking, we see different vulnerabilities. That is much
Speaker 1: more likely to be someone who has a risk factor
Speaker 1: of being in child welfare, being from a home where
Speaker 1: there's violence, or child sexual abuse, being runaway homeless, But
Speaker 1: those factors don't hold when we get to online abuse
Speaker 1: and grooming. It really is any child that's on the
Speaker 1: connected platform, and so they are highly vulnerable to someone
Speaker 1: who comes along and says, hey, I'll take care of you,
Speaker 1: and then they start selling that child for sex. And
Speaker 1: the way child sex trafficking manifests in the United States
Speaker 1: is that oftentimes these children are sold on escort sites
Speaker 1: as adults, and so the person buying them doesn't really
Speaker 1: know that they're fourteen or fifteen years old, and that's
Speaker 1: not used as an enticer. I mean, do they use children.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's obviously going to be people that prefer sometimes,
Speaker 1: but not the majority. And so there's a lot of
Speaker 1: there's a lot of false narratives out there right now
Speaker 1: about child sex trafficking in the United States that are
Speaker 1: really trying to drive fear through communities. But the reality
Speaker 1: is is that there's some high vulnerabilities that are associated
Speaker 1: with child sex trafficking and intigranted. It can happen to anyone,
Speaker 1: but it it predominantly happens to children who are already
Speaker 1: vulnerable because of another reason, when we talk about online grooming,
Speaker 1: we don't see that being a similarity. The main vulnerability
Speaker 1: is are you online and and um, are you putting
Speaker 1: yourself in a position where you're having conversations with strangers
Speaker 1: or building those relationships? Do you feel like you don't
Speaker 1: have a safety net, an adult or caregiver to talk
Speaker 1: to in case something bad happens online? So there are
Speaker 1: very different profiles of what could put a child at
Speaker 1: risk for those two different types. I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: like a hawk with this stuff, with my kids stuff.
Speaker 1: And still my daughter who doesn't do the sexy sexy
Speaker 1: Instagram at all, she was on Skype or something and
Speaker 1: this thing popped up and said, hey, how'd you like
Speaker 1: to have a sugar daddy, which is terrifying. So besides
Speaker 1: a teenage girl who's doing sort of sexy Instagram, walk
Speaker 1: me through how a teenager can be groomed online. So,
Speaker 1: usually someone who's grooming a child online is not just
Speaker 1: grooming one child. They usually have multiple children and they're
Speaker 1: perfecting their technique. They're seeing what happens. They might be
Speaker 1: blindly reaching out like you said on Skype, or they're
Speaker 1: watching their Instagram or their social media posts and understanding
Speaker 1: really what maybe motivates that child. One of the best
Speaker 1: safeguards to UH ensuring that a child isn't susceptible is
Speaker 1: having the conversation with your child before it happens. So
Speaker 1: if that happens first, before a child has any idea
Speaker 1: that that could happen, like why did someone say to
Speaker 1: ask me for three books for a foot photo? And
Speaker 1: they think at two points, oh, that's funny, I can
Speaker 1: make three in bucks, as opposed to they already knew
Speaker 1: the minute they were handed the device that they might
Speaker 1: get texts or messages from people who they don't know,
Speaker 1: and those people might try to convince them that they're friends.
Speaker 1: But here's what happens. We're always going to have an
Speaker 1: open dialogue as the person who's handing you that device.
Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be here for you. I am not
Speaker 1: going to get upset with you. You can't do anything
Speaker 1: wrong in this environment that would get me angry. I
Speaker 1: want you to be safe. Have you found that that
Speaker 1: a lot of um children that have been vulnerable to
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, have kept it to themselves, have
Speaker 1: been fearful of communicating it with other people, and that's
Speaker 1: why they become victim to it. Yeah. Well, in our research,
Speaker 1: one of the main factors in an extortion or grooming
Speaker 1: situation getting out of hand is that the child felt
Speaker 1: like they couldn't talk to anyone. So uh, when the
Speaker 1: perpetrator has that much control over child where they've isolated
Speaker 1: them from their family or their friends, um, then it
Speaker 1: gets bad very quickly because it's when the kids feel
Speaker 1: like they don't have someone to talk to that they
Speaker 1: feel trapped, and then the person who is grooming and
Speaker 1: extorting them is winning. They're going to keep that bind.
Speaker 1: I feel like we do so much parenting with the
Speaker 1: real life scenarios. You know, if this uncle or this person,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to come tell me. But I
Speaker 1: find less and less parents do this with devices. I
Speaker 1: almost think it should be part of the ritual of
Speaker 1: giving your child their first device. Is this whole piece
Speaker 1: of education. The minute a device is put into the
Speaker 1: hands of a child, you start this conversation depending how
Speaker 1: old they are, um, right, and it has to be
Speaker 1: ag appropriate and then you have it often so it's
Speaker 1: not a one and done. You m them the device,
Speaker 1: you talk about it once a week, you sit down,
Speaker 1: you say, show me what you're doing on those apps.
Speaker 1: Would love to better understand what among us is, you know,
Speaker 1: show me how to play Fortnite, and have those conversations,
Speaker 1: and then at some point you really have the direct
Speaker 1: conversation about what the threats are. And I think for
Speaker 1: many of us who are parents today, we didn't grow
Speaker 1: up with any of this. So it it is, it's scary,
Speaker 1: and it's unknown. We have to remove the fear from it.
Speaker 1: We have to have these conversations as just normal conversations
Speaker 1: about how we prepare our children to live in a
Speaker 1: digital world. Think about it about empowering them, making them
Speaker 1: more resilient, um helping them navigate it, versus coming from
Speaker 1: a place of a lot of fear where we're gonna
Speaker 1: shut it down or get really you know, angry, because
Speaker 1: then they don't feel like they're going to have a
Speaker 1: safety net, right, And whoever makes them feel comfortable online
Speaker 1: will make them feel more comfortable than their caregiver, the
Speaker 1: person who needs to be there to support them as
Speaker 1: they navigate this world. Now, a quick word from our sponsors,
Speaker 1: welcome back to go ask Gali. Let's get back to
Speaker 1: the discussion. What are the suggestions UM, particularly from Thorn
Speaker 1: about making social media safer? That there are other tools
Speaker 1: or techniques that we can use to kind of keep
Speaker 1: our kids from this kind of harm. Much of this
Speaker 1: is based on kind of age appropriateness. I think one
Speaker 1: is have a conversation early, have it often, UM, understand
Speaker 1: what applications or kids are using, and understand the safety
Speaker 1: features on it. So there are some applications where the
Speaker 1: default setting is that kids can chat with anyone or
Speaker 1: their accounts are public. So make sure you don't just
Speaker 1: let them sign up. Go in and see are are
Speaker 1: these accounts private? Can they not chat with anyone? Can
Speaker 1: they chat with only someone who's in the house. Can
Speaker 1: they chat with someone who's on their friends list? UM,
Speaker 1: go through on a regular basis and have them talk
Speaker 1: about who who their friends are that are on their list. Right, So,
Speaker 1: if you've had an agreement that I'm okay with you
Speaker 1: friending people in this environment, but I wanted to be
Speaker 1: people that you know in real life. So once a week,
Speaker 1: let's talk about who's on that friend friend list and
Speaker 1: explain to them why right. So these blanket rules without
Speaker 1: an explanation of why, um, I think are hard for
Speaker 1: kids to consume. But kids want to be safe too,
Speaker 1: So if you can explain to them why, um, I
Speaker 1: think that's important as you go along. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: a twelve thirteen year old, how much do you divulge
Speaker 1: about a person that could be grooming them? Do tell
Speaker 1: it it's for sexual exploitation, Like how far do you go? Um?
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to give a little bit and then
Speaker 1: see where they go. Like, every child is different, right,
Speaker 1: It might it might be based on what they've heard
Speaker 1: at school. Um. If they're in a group of friends
Speaker 1: who maybe aren't online a lot or don't talk about
Speaker 1: these things, they might not be ready for a more
Speaker 1: in depth conversation. But if they've heard things at school
Speaker 1: and they're curious, um, you start the conversation, give a
Speaker 1: little see what they ask. If they're asking, it's best
Speaker 1: to answer it factually. And you're a mother as well.
Speaker 1: You have three kids, so being immerged in this world,
Speaker 1: what kind of conversations are you having with your children?
Speaker 1: I know they're younger, but no, but still, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, um, I have taken the position of trying
Speaker 1: to be very factual UM, straightforward, non emotional UM, creating
Speaker 1: a a safe space so that they know the facts
Speaker 1: going in and they feel like they can come to
Speaker 1: me if anything, UM go sideways with them or themselves.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I have to take like ten deep breaths before
Speaker 1: I go into a conversation because I know a little
Speaker 1: too much. But I don't want them to feel fear.
Speaker 1: I want them to feel empowered, and so I really
Speaker 1: just try to anchor all my conversations that way. So
Speaker 1: I have one child who will ask all the questions
Speaker 1: and so I give all the answers. I have another
Speaker 1: who who won't, and it's just not even on their radar.
Speaker 1: So I I just say, you know what, this person
Speaker 1: UM may not have the best intentions for you, UM
Speaker 1: or we just don't know, and so let's focus on
Speaker 1: the people we do know and our friends. Here. I
Speaker 1: have those those same two children, and with my younger one,
Speaker 1: the one that really doesn't want to hear, gets very
Speaker 1: frightened by stuff. You know, we keep it in the
Speaker 1: stranger danger thing. Where is my older daughter who wants
Speaker 1: to know everything? She could rattle off every sex trafficking
Speaker 1: statistic around the world, like she confronts fear by giving me,
Speaker 1: give me all the information, that's my ammunition, tell me everything.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you're right. I think you
Speaker 1: have to kind of uh create a scenario that's age
Speaker 1: appropriate if you're sort of these learning techniques or telling stories.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to talk about was, um again,
Speaker 1: I call it real life. In real life, I've had
Speaker 1: situations where, uh, like one of my daughter's friends came
Speaker 1: over when she was fourteen, and she was asking me
Speaker 1: all these questions about statutory rape, what does it mean?
Speaker 1: And how old you have? You know, to the point
Speaker 1: where I was like, this is a huge red flag.
Speaker 1: This fourteen year old is asking me question about statutory rape.
Speaker 1: How do I look for those red flags online? Yeah? Uh,
Speaker 1: it depends by age, right, So there's there's also something
Speaker 1: too as kids get older, demonstrating that you respect and
Speaker 1: trust their privacy and balancing their safety. So when they're younger,
Speaker 1: I go back to some of those maybe like weekly
Speaker 1: conversations about looking at friends lists or understanding apps if
Speaker 1: you've started to do that. Um, as they're younger, when
Speaker 1: you get older, when you want to respect their privacy
Speaker 1: and let them do their thing. Um. Then it comes
Speaker 1: down to have you planted the seeds of an open
Speaker 1: conversation so that instead of actually having their device in
Speaker 1: their hands and looking at it, you can talk to
Speaker 1: them and say, have you know, have you experienced anything
Speaker 1: online lately that makes you feel uncomfortable? Um? Is there
Speaker 1: any any challenging text you've gotten their messages that you
Speaker 1: know I can help you with? UM? Maybe red flags,
Speaker 1: especially when we're in a pandemic. Is have they become
Speaker 1: more withdrawn? Are they in their room alone with the
Speaker 1: door closed for extended periods of time? UM? Do they
Speaker 1: seem more stressed or irritable or uh, you know, always
Speaker 1: having their device at a different degree than they used to. Now,
Speaker 1: this may not This may mean something else and may
Speaker 1: mean that we're in a pandemic. Internect their devices all
Speaker 1: the time, so you have to you have to be careful,
Speaker 1: but you have to partner that with trying to have
Speaker 1: those open, non judgmental conversations with the kids, UM, so
Speaker 1: that they feel safe raising concerns. It's interesting have you
Speaker 1: guys discussed at all at Thorn about being in a
Speaker 1: pandemic and how people are not as strict about device
Speaker 1: rules right now? And how more and more kids are
Speaker 1: on their devices, much more than they were pre pandemic,
Speaker 1: right right, Um, we see all of the ingredients for
Speaker 1: it to get worse. The I think we'll have some
Speaker 1: reflective studies and you know, in a year from now,
Speaker 1: we get through this and see what it was. But
Speaker 1: you know, you have more kids online, you have more
Speaker 1: people online, and just as I said before, all the
Speaker 1: good that has come with the Internet, all the bad.
Speaker 1: So when there's a rise of net presence, you're going
Speaker 1: to get a rise of bad things happening. But I
Speaker 1: I also think in addition to the perpetrators, you know,
Speaker 1: potential perpetrators online, we have to just look at the
Speaker 1: behavior of sexting. I don't know if that's something your
Speaker 1: kids have brought up, but just how common you know,
Speaker 1: consensual sexting is, and and that something that can go
Speaker 1: from this is my boyfriend, I actually know this person
Speaker 1: and I've chosen to send a naked image can turn
Speaker 1: bad really quickly when that person decides to send that
Speaker 1: image on to the rest of the school. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you brought this up because I don't understand sexting.
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I mean it's almost like when
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years ago people would say I made
Speaker 1: a sex tape. Why would you make a sex tape?
Speaker 1: It's gonna end up in the wrong hand, like nothing
Speaker 1: good can come from it. Um and again, this sexting
Speaker 1: is something with my own children, I say, there's no
Speaker 1: reason of her to do this. It will live forever.
Speaker 1: You know, Harvard will see it. You're not going to
Speaker 1: Harvard if they get a whiff of this. But also
Speaker 1: you know it's going to end up in the dark web.
Speaker 1: But it's it's become so commonplace. And you know, I
Speaker 1: also think, I mean, that's child pornography if you're a
Speaker 1: teenager and you're sending naked photos to your boyfriend. And
Speaker 1: by the way, the boyfriend, just because his frontal lobe
Speaker 1: hasn't developed, he's going to show it to all his friends.
Speaker 1: And it's just terrifying to me, the sexting thing. But
Speaker 1: when you have adults around you that do it because
Speaker 1: it's you know, sexy and cute, somehow it takes the
Speaker 1: stigma off of it, I think. Or we'll see it
Speaker 1: in shows and you know, it all seems normal. I
Speaker 1: said to my daughters, if you ever get sent a
Speaker 1: dick pic. You bring it to me right away, I
Speaker 1: will destroy that boy. Yeah, we we we were doing
Speaker 1: a lot of research right now with kids. About two
Speaker 1: years ago we started looking at this issue because again
Speaker 1: we focus on the broad you know, group of child
Speaker 1: sexual abuse material. What we were seeing was that a
Speaker 1: big portion that was growing within that. A lot of
Speaker 1: that is produced by perpetrators documenting hands on abuse, but
Speaker 1: what we were seeing was this trend where a large
Speaker 1: part of it was becoming the self generated. And it's
Speaker 1: not all generated when someone grooms you. A lot of
Speaker 1: it was happening in this way through consensual sharing. And
Speaker 1: we went to go look at the studies that were
Speaker 1: out there, and we found that a lot of them
Speaker 1: were kind of five years old, and things moved so quickly.
Speaker 1: We thought, we've gotta we gotta understand right now what
Speaker 1: kids are experiencing and trying to understand the conversation that
Speaker 1: might change behaviors or make kids more safe in a
Speaker 1: situation where this is happening. I'm not sure we're putting
Speaker 1: the genie back in the bottle right So, in a
Speaker 1: in a world where kids are going to do this,
Speaker 1: how do we make them as safe as possible. Even
Speaker 1: with teenagers I know or my own, you could easily
Speaker 1: see the scenario of you know that they have a boyfriend,
Speaker 1: they trust him, show me some sexy pictures. They do that. Uh,
Speaker 1: later on they break up, there's revenge born, meaning the
Speaker 1: boy or the girl uses these pictures against them. It
Speaker 1: ends up in the dark web, and then you've got
Speaker 1: the sex tortion right there, right, Yes, she can be
Speaker 1: blackmailed for this these pictures she sent to her you know,
Speaker 1: cute boyfriend and Khaki's in a tie, who seemed like
Speaker 1: the nicest, most honorable boy. It can happen um to
Speaker 1: anyone I are. The setting we did of kids found
Speaker 1: that about teen girls had shared a nude UM, one
Speaker 1: in ten teen boys had shared a nude, But over
Speaker 1: of kids thirteen to seventeen had seen nudes of someone
Speaker 1: else without their consent. So that's nearly half of kids
Speaker 1: have been shown a you know, shown a picture of
Speaker 1: someone else um on their on their device. And this
Speaker 1: gets back to teaching our kids the idea of consent.
Speaker 1: So how how can parents define consensual sharing for their
Speaker 1: kids when it comes to social media. I think we
Speaker 1: should start with outlining if you're going to share images
Speaker 1: of your body and your you know what you consider private.
Speaker 1: Everyone has that differently. Just understand the consequence and understand
Speaker 1: what can happen, even if in that moment in time
Speaker 1: you firmly believe the person you're sending it to will
Speaker 1: never do anything. We gotta help us expand the realm
Speaker 1: of possibilities for kids. So let's make sure a child
Speaker 1: knows that. And then second is if you receive an image,
Speaker 1: asking yourself was that image intended for me? Is it
Speaker 1: being sent to me with the intent and consent of
Speaker 1: the person whose body it is representing? And if not, um,
Speaker 1: it needs to stop at your device, and you probably
Speaker 1: need to alert someone either if you know the person
Speaker 1: who's emitted it is a caregiver, someone at your school, um,
Speaker 1: and and really help stop that. And then the third
Speaker 1: would be to talk about how it's a criminal offense
Speaker 1: child pronocate, I mean, do you go into the scare
Speaker 1: tactics at all? I think that's part of the first conversation,
Speaker 1: you know, just in a factual way, like let me
Speaker 1: just talk to you about what you're gonna be coming
Speaker 1: it up against. In middle school or high school, you
Speaker 1: might get asked to share a picture of your chest
Speaker 1: or your private areas. I want to prepare with all
Speaker 1: the facts before you get that question. Um. One, it's
Speaker 1: illegal you know to Uh. You might think you're sending
Speaker 1: it to the boy who says he loves you or
Speaker 1: the girl who says, um, he loves you, she loves you,
Speaker 1: but it could go elsewhere. And what how are you
Speaker 1: going to feel if the whole school has that picture? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: let's just talk through this scenario so that you can
Speaker 1: process this before the time comes. Um. So that's one,
Speaker 1: and then the second is if you are a recipient
Speaker 1: of that, what is the definition of consent and intent? Um?
Speaker 1: And so these are just new conversations that we're not
Speaker 1: used to having that we have to make normal and
Speaker 1: have with our kids. All right, So, as a as
Speaker 1: a parent and citizen, of course, I want to know
Speaker 1: how we combat with this epidemic. But also because I
Speaker 1: want to circle back to Thorn, because you're addressing all
Speaker 1: these issues, Can you tell me a little bit about
Speaker 1: Thorne's strategy in working with law enforcement and tech companies? Yeah, so, um,
Speaker 1: you mentioned this at the beginning. We have a bold goal.
Speaker 1: We want to eliminate the trade of child sexual abuse
Speaker 1: material online in the next ten years, and uh, we
Speaker 1: are building the technology systems globally to do that. And
Speaker 1: we think that there's three kind of key things that
Speaker 1: we have to do. One is we're building solutions for
Speaker 1: law enforcement to help them find children faster. So every
Speaker 1: imager video that we see online is a child. Um
Speaker 1: some of those represent children who are being abused right now,
Speaker 1: and some of it's just recirculated content. So you know,
Speaker 1: once an image goes viral, it can be seen millions
Speaker 1: of times. So you have to use data and technology
Speaker 1: to sift through all those mounds of data, get down
Speaker 1: to where there's a victim right now, and help law
Speaker 1: enforcement have all the information they need to find that child.
Speaker 1: So we build solutions for law enforcement to help them
Speaker 1: do that and get to the kids who need their
Speaker 1: help immediately. The second thing that we do is every
Speaker 1: single company this is we're talking about the open web
Speaker 1: now that hosts user generated content Instagram, Fisco, Facebook, Flicker, Shutterfly,
Speaker 1: anywhere you can post an image or video I believe
Speaker 1: needs to proactively be detecting child sexual abuse of material
Speaker 1: and ensuring it doesn't go viral on their platform. That
Speaker 1: is a basic standard I think for any tech company,
Speaker 1: and the reality is is that there's probably fifteen to
Speaker 1: twenty that actually have the systems in place to proactively
Speaker 1: do this, and yet there's hundreds of companies out there.
Speaker 1: And so that's an area of work where we've actually
Speaker 1: built software for companies to make it really easy so
Speaker 1: they can no longer say like I can't afford to
Speaker 1: build this, or I don't know how to build it.
Speaker 1: We've built it. It needs to be used this software
Speaker 1: some other type of software to detect this type of
Speaker 1: abuse content which is also illegal to have on your
Speaker 1: platform at scale. And so those two areas we build technology.
Speaker 1: We connect the data around the world so that it
Speaker 1: moves really quickly, uh, law enforcement and tech companies have
Speaker 1: the intelligence they need to find kids and take content down.
Speaker 1: And then our third area of work is what we've
Speaker 1: been talking about today, is um there is no technology
Speaker 1: that you can put in place that can help change
Speaker 1: behaviors with kids and caregivers. That these are conversation sations
Speaker 1: that we need to be having. This is why we
Speaker 1: need to be talking today because we need to reach
Speaker 1: moms and parents and dads and caregivers and teachers who
Speaker 1: are with children to really normalize this conversation and realize
Speaker 1: that when we're talking about sex said, when we're talking
Speaker 1: about developing kids, we have to add in the fact
Speaker 1: that they are developing in a digital world and they're
Speaker 1: gonna do some crazy stuff and we need to arm
Speaker 1: them with the information, um and the security and the
Speaker 1: resources to reduce the potential horm Absolutely, God, I agree with.
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of software that a parent can
Speaker 1: use now that we can see our devices? There are
Speaker 1: software products out there that you can put on kids
Speaker 1: devices or home devices to you know, detect potential threats. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know any off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: and I think some may work well. My only caveat
Speaker 1: to that is that I don't think that type of
Speaker 1: software is a substitute for the good conversation at the
Speaker 1: open door. Yeah, every time you're child, you're given a
Speaker 1: child of device. You go. This comes with instructions for me,
Speaker 1: sit down, grabag ginger ill, and let's talk about this.
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, you guys are just doing such great stuff.
Speaker 1: Is there any government organization that we can write to?
Speaker 1: Is there any push we can sort of accelerate from
Speaker 1: our side? I think, um, stop sex stortion dot com
Speaker 1: is a resource that I think you know, parents can
Speaker 1: pick up one to educate themselves, to to share with
Speaker 1: their schools because there's there's school resources on there of
Speaker 1: how to start to have this conversation. There's a cute
Speaker 1: little video on there that makes it really easy. It
Speaker 1: has cats in it. Everyone loves a cat. Uh, some
Speaker 1: people some people don't say, some people don't, but it'll
Speaker 1: make you laugh. Um. It really kind of breaks down
Speaker 1: some of the barriers to this conversation in a really
Speaker 1: really easy way. And then if you or someone you
Speaker 1: know is being extorted or being groomed and you need
Speaker 1: an outlet, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
Speaker 1: has a hotline. So you call that hotline you report that.
Speaker 1: I know I have been approached by many parents who
Speaker 1: feel like we don't know where to go. If you
Speaker 1: call your local police department and this is a digital
Speaker 1: crime and they don't know where the perpetrator is, they
Speaker 1: might not know how to even handle this. So reach
Speaker 1: out to the National Center for Missing Exploited Children if
Speaker 1: you need help now. Uh. And then thorn dot org
Speaker 1: has is our organization has a ton of additional resources
Speaker 1: and research. If you want to learn. Julie Cardulla, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Well, thank you for being brave enough
Speaker 1: to put this on there. It's it's not always comfortable
Speaker 1: to talk about. Sometimes it can be scary for us parents. UM,
Speaker 1: I'm eternally grateful for that. Thank you for well. As
Speaker 1: Kara Sawa says, never look away, and I believe that,
Speaker 1: so thank you so much. I agree. Thank you the
Speaker 1: power of informing, being honest and being an advocate. Just
Speaker 1: recapping some of the main recommendations from today's episode that
Speaker 1: parents can use for the future. Thank you for listening
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