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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Cheryl Markowich Show on iHeartRadio Shows.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Erica Anderson. Erica is a writer

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Speaker 1: who has written for Christianity Today, New York Times, Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal, and others. Her book Leaving Cloud Nine, The

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Speaker 1: True story of a life resurrected from the ashes of poverty, trauma,

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Speaker 1: and mental illness, is available now, and her upcoming book

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Speaker 1: Freely Sober is available for pre order before it's January

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Speaker 1: released anywhere you buy your books. Hi, Erica, so nice

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Speaker 1: to have you on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: So I've known you online for a number of years,

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Speaker 1: and I remember when you first started talking about your

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Speaker 1: sobriety journey. One was that was that difficult for you?

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Speaker 1: And what made you start opening up about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think I probably originally started talking about it the

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Speaker 3: first time I really tried to get sober, which was

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Speaker 3: I would say early twenty nineteen something like that. And

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Speaker 3: the reason I sort of, you know, dipped a toe

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Speaker 3: where I wasn't like really going all out talking about it,

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Speaker 3: but I was kind of talking about how maybe I'm

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Speaker 3: not as comfortable with alcohol as I thought I was.

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Speaker 3: But for me, it is just part of who I am.

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Speaker 3: To sort of share what I'm going through online. That's

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Speaker 3: not for everybody. But as I became more immersed in,

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Speaker 3: you know, deciding that I wasn't going to be drinking anymore,

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Speaker 3: I knew it had to in part become a part

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Speaker 3: of my identity.

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Speaker 2: At least for a while. To say.

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Speaker 3: I had heard from others to say to say I

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Speaker 3: don't drink, Like even if you still are drinking, you're

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Speaker 3: still struggling, to just even say I don't drink or

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Speaker 3: I'm sober, to just say that it actually helps ingrain

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Speaker 3: it to who you are and actually empowers you to

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Speaker 3: make better choices even in the midst.

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Speaker 2: Of a struggle.

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Speaker 3: And so that is what sort of inspired me to

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Speaker 3: just start talking about it, and I kind of it

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Speaker 3: just sort of followed God like he was I felt

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Speaker 3: like giving me this courage to talk about it, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, I don't think everyone has this. I do

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Speaker 3: think we need voices, and He's telling me, like, let's

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Speaker 3: do it, let's go, and so I just kind of

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Speaker 3: went with that, despite knowing that I was feeling a

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Speaker 3: little bit self conscious with everybody. I sure, yea being.

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Speaker 1: This online, Yeah, it's a big deal to tell people

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Speaker 1: stories about it. I think even you had one recently

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Speaker 1: that you know, again, I've been following you a long time,

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Speaker 1: I've known all this about you for a long time.

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Speaker 1: But you had one recently that was even like surprising

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Speaker 1: or shocking to me where you talked about during your

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Speaker 1: work day going out and buying miniature bottles of alcohol.

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Speaker 1: And I had, you know, I guess, I, look, I

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Speaker 1: have to be honest, I don't know that much about alcoholism.

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Speaker 1: I guess this is this is sort of a learning

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Speaker 1: curve for me too. But I always thought it was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you just thought that the whole mom wine culture was

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Speaker 1: you know, harmful, and that was what turned you towards sobriety.

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Speaker 1: I guess I didn't realize that you'd had, you know,

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Speaker 1: had a real problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that story was.

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Speaker 3: I felt really nervous to share that because I just

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Speaker 3: knew people that I used to work with during.

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Speaker 2: That time maybe like wait what yeah, like.

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Speaker 3: What I had to No, I yeah, I know, And

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Speaker 3: it's it's so it's such a weird thing looking back

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Speaker 3: and seeing that, but it I shared it because it

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Speaker 3: goes to show you that people that are struggling can

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Speaker 3: be hiding in plain sight. You know, you just because

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Speaker 3: someone is drinking during the day doesn't mean you're going

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Speaker 3: to know it.

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Speaker 2: And it's not something I.

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Speaker 3: Was doing every day, but the fact that I was

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Speaker 3: doing it at all, and just like the sensationalism of

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Speaker 3: it being oh, this isn't like the US Capitol building

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Speaker 3: and you know, I'm working for some member of Congress

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Speaker 3: and like.

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Speaker 2: What what in the world is happening here?

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Speaker 3: And so I, you know, share these little tidbits and

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Speaker 3: stories to really make people feel seen. And that's not

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Speaker 3: to say you need to be sneaking alcohol at work

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Speaker 3: to quit drinking or have a problem at all, but

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Speaker 3: I think sometimes it's helpful to those that maybe are

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Speaker 3: in those situations to hear like, oh, like actually Erica

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Speaker 3: was doing stuff like this too, and like look at

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Speaker 3: her now, right.

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Speaker 1: How much of a role did your faith play in

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Speaker 1: your sober journey?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think huge.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think getting sober was important for me

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Speaker 3: as a whole. But also I really felt that alcohol

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Speaker 3: muddied this relationship I had with God, Like this sort

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Speaker 3: of being in touch with Him was very blurried when

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Speaker 3: I was drinking a lot, like I couldn't hear his voice.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't able to sense maybe the way that God

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Speaker 3: works in our lives on a daily basis. You miss

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Speaker 3: those little things because there's a person in the Bible,

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Speaker 3: I think in the Old Testament that says something like God,

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Speaker 3: God doesn't. God never yells, He's more like a whisper.

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Speaker 2: Tell the story about you know, there was I'm like

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Speaker 2: blanking on the person's name.

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Speaker 3: It was probably Moses, but somebody did on a mountain,

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Speaker 3: and Moses.

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Speaker 1: Was frequently on mountains.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what it.

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Speaker 3: Might have been him, But he's on the mountain right,

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Speaker 3: And you know they say like God wasn't He wasn't

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Speaker 3: in the wind, and he wasn't in the storm, and

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Speaker 3: he wasn't in the thunder. He was just like a

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Speaker 3: still small voice. And you miss a lot of that.

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Speaker 2: If you're dremking. You can't sense those things.

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Speaker 3: And you also can't sense like the needs of those

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Speaker 3: around you, whether it's like a tone change in your

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Speaker 3: kid's voice or your spouse or your friend. And like

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Speaker 3: you really can't be the person that you want to

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Speaker 3: be when you are constantly putting a substance in your

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Speaker 3: body that alters your mental state.

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Speaker 1: What do you hope that people get out of Freely Sober?

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Speaker 2: I hope that you know.

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Speaker 3: A promise that I like to make in the book is,

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Speaker 3: once you read this book, you'll never think about alcohol

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Speaker 3: the same way again.

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Speaker 2: So it's not a call to quit drinking.

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Speaker 3: And like you know, oh my gosh, like you if

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Speaker 3: you buy this book, like I want you to quit drinking,

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Speaker 3: that's not what it is. That's why it's called freely

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Speaker 3: Sober because we yeah, yeah, because you know, every minute

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Speaker 3: that I told myself I have to stop drinking and

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Speaker 3: I have to stop drinking, like that was paralyzing and

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Speaker 3: it was actually the barrier to actually quitting drinking. But

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Speaker 3: when you step away and actually analyze yourself, your relationship

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Speaker 3: with alcohol, your history like under like learn about alcohol

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Speaker 3: and how it's played a role in your life, then

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Speaker 3: you can actually, if you want, you can choose not

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Speaker 3: to drink because of what you've learned.

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Speaker 2: And I think reading.

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Speaker 3: This book, and this is kind of how it happened

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Speaker 3: for me and reading other books, I walked away, you'll

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Speaker 3: walk away knowing like you can't unknow what you just learned.

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Speaker 3: And when you learn something about the way this is

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Speaker 3: impacting you and the way that it impacts society as well,

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Speaker 3: Like it's almost impossible to keep making the same decisions. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because you know better, And that doesn't mean you quit

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Speaker 3: necessarily right away, but it does mean you step forward

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Speaker 3: and a better direction that maybe leads you.

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Speaker 2: To where you need to be in the future.

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Speaker 3: But when you tell yourself you have to quit drinking,

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Speaker 3: it leaves no room to want to quit drinking. And

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Speaker 3: I want to create that space for people so that

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Speaker 3: they actually maybe want to but not have to.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting and I really think that's an interesting point,

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Speaker 1: the freely part, and that you can want to but

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Speaker 1: not have to. That's very well said. What was Leaving

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Speaker 1: Cloud Nine? What was the Cloud Nine that you had

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Speaker 1: to leave in writing that book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So Leaving Cloud Nine was sort of a joint

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Speaker 3: book really. I wrote it, but it was really about

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Speaker 3: my husband and the trailer park that he grew up

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Speaker 3: in is called Cloud Nine in Arizona, and.

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Speaker 2: So we wrote this book.

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Speaker 3: I mean it really started as just like a you know,

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Speaker 3: a far fetched idea that we could actually write and

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Speaker 3: publish this book. But essentially it was about his story

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Speaker 3: of growing up in poverty and abuse, and you talk

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Speaker 3: about adverse childhood effects. If anybody's familiar with those, the aces,

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Speaker 3: like he had nine out of ten of those, and

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Speaker 3: so his childhood was Every time he would tell me

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Speaker 3: a story, I was like, oh my gosh, like.

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Speaker 2: We have got to talk about this somehow.

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Speaker 3: And I ended up spending hours interviewing him, ultimately attempting

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Speaker 3: to get a book deal, like shockingly actually getting one

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Speaker 3: and turning it into this book, this story of his

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Speaker 3: healing and redemption through his faith and all the things

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Speaker 3: that he went through as a child and then as

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Speaker 3: an adult, and it sort of comes full circle with

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Speaker 3: the birth of our son at the very end of

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Speaker 3: the book. But I often compare it to I say,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of like a faith based Till Billy eleogy,

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Speaker 3: a lot of very similar elements.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking this, Yeah, you know, like when.

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Speaker 2: I've seen jd.

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Speaker 3: Vance and interviews, and you know, I just know a

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Speaker 3: lot about his story from reading that.

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Speaker 2: I just think I'm always like, oh, you and jd.

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Speaker 3: Vance would have so much to talk about. You guys

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Speaker 3: would because my husband was also in the military, and

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of just things that line up,

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Speaker 3: and so yeah, it was an amazing experience to be

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Speaker 3: able to write that, and so we still to this day,

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Speaker 3: we'll get emails from people that are saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: I really appreciated you writing that because there's so much

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Speaker 3: in my own story that I saw there and to

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Speaker 3: see the redemption that happened, to see what's possible, Like

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Speaker 3: that's that's a really cool thing to read about.

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Speaker 1: Did you always want to be a writer?

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Speaker 2: I did, you know?

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Speaker 3: I always say, like from the time I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: six years old and I got my first Ballerina diary

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Speaker 3: with a little key lock and key, I always wanted

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Speaker 3: to be a writer.

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Speaker 2: I went to journalism school, and I didn't.

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Speaker 3: Get to be an actual I would say, like real

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Speaker 3: writer's where I'm like really writing my own stuff, like

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Speaker 3: in publishing. It until really more about the time that

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Speaker 3: that book came out, and then I started to recognize it's.

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Speaker 1: A great way to be a real writer, write a book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that helps, I mean, and thankfully I was exposed

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Speaker 3: to lots of great networks of people in DC working

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Speaker 3: at Heritage and National Review. That was like it kind

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Speaker 3: of just showed me what was possible. I didn't even realize,

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Speaker 3: I thought. I finally thought to myself, actually like normal

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Speaker 3: people like me can actually get their writing scene and

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Speaker 3: published and you can get paid for that. And so

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Speaker 3: it's been like a really fun journey over the past

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Speaker 3: like six seven years to experiment with that and do

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Speaker 3: it and put it out there and realize that our

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Speaker 3: words and you know this, Carol of course as a columnist,

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Speaker 3: like we they're so powerful. It's so much more powerful

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Speaker 3: than anything you could pay for, anything you could rant

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Speaker 3: about on Facebook.

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Speaker 2: When you know, twenty five people see it.

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Speaker 3: When you get your words published and you say something

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Speaker 3: and you say something that matters in thousands or more

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Speaker 3: people see it, like that's actually making a real difference.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm so passionate about getting people out there

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Speaker 3: to do more of that.

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Speaker 1: What would have been like a plan be if the

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Speaker 1: writing career got them together.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've always worked in you know, the communications world,

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Speaker 3: and so my as a freelancer, half my life is

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Speaker 3: so in digital media strategies. So I guess the planned

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Speaker 3: is sort of also in action simultaneously.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break and be

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Speaker 1: right back on the Carol Markowitz Show. It was nearly

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Speaker 1: two years ago that terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred

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Speaker 1: innocent Israelis and took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today

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Speaker 1: it seems as if the cries of the dead and

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Speaker 1: dying have been drowned out by shouts of Antisemitic hatred,

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Speaker 1: and the most brutal attack on Jewish people since the

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Speaker 1: Holocaust has been forgotten. Yet as the world looks away,

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Speaker 1: a light shines in the darkness. It's a movement of

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Speaker 1: love and support for the people of Israel called Flags

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Speaker 1: of Fellowship, and it's organized by the International Fellowship of

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Speaker 1: Christians and Jews. And on October fifth, just a few

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Speaker 1: weeks away, millions across America will prayer fully plant an

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Speaker 1: Israeli flag in honor and solidarity with the victims of

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Speaker 1: October seventh, twenty twenty three. And they're grieving families. And

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Speaker 1: now you can be part of the movement too. To

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Speaker 1: get more information about how you can join the Flags

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Speaker 1: of Fellowship movement, visit the fellowship online at IFCJ dot org.

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Speaker 1: That's IFCJ dot org. Was there a road that you

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Speaker 1: thought about taking that you didn't take or do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you have gone all the ways that you've

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Speaker 1: wanted to go?

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Speaker 3: You know, the only thing I say is that when

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Speaker 3: I first started out in Washington, DC as an intern

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Speaker 3: back in two thousand and six, I was really afraid.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was doing, and.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who among us right, right?

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Speaker 3: But I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a guide,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know, Like today, I feel so fearless

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Speaker 3: and I will call anybody, I will interview anybody.

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Speaker 4: I will.

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Speaker 2: The one thing I say is I'm always like, I

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Speaker 2: don't think I could go on.

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Speaker 3: Bill Maher because I'd be afraid, like even though I'd

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Speaker 3: actually love Bill Maher, but I'd be like so afraid

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Speaker 3: that I'd get like a question that I couldn't answer

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Speaker 3: and I'd be embarrassed. So but outside of that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I feel so fearless in a lot of those ways,

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Speaker 3: and so I kind of just wish that back in

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Speaker 3: those early days, I had had a mentor, I'd had

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Speaker 3: someone sort of guiding me. Because I had some like

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Speaker 3: really early success. I wrote for Human Events and you know,

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Speaker 3: had a couple like TV, your parents and stuff, but

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Speaker 3: it was so nerve acking that I just kind of

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Speaker 3: ran away from it all and I didn't really develop

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Speaker 3: my passion for what I do now until later. So

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Speaker 3: I kind of wish I had been able to leverage that.

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Speaker 3: But otherwise, like, I mean, everything has gone amazing. You know,

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Speaker 3: I get to be a mom to my two kids,

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Speaker 3: which is like my favorite, most important job of course,

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Speaker 3: and so I wouldn't change anything about that pathway.

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Speaker 1: What do you worry about having enough.

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Speaker 2: Money for retirement? That's one thing, Yeah, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: constantly saving it.

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Speaker 1: I asked that question to all of my guests, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the range of answers could be anything, but

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Speaker 1: I have to say nobody said. Nobody said retirement.

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Speaker 2: Yet that's one It's not my biggest fear.

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Speaker 1: But bigest fear. Just what do you worry about?

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Speaker 2: Do you worry about it?

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Speaker 3: And I am constantly thinking about, like how much money

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Speaker 3: are we putting into our four O one k's and like, okay,

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Speaker 3: let's make sure we do this, Let's make sure we

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Speaker 3: do that. I mean, I would say, you know, and

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Speaker 3: then also me just worrying about like let me not

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Speaker 3: fail my children, and I hope they grow up to

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Speaker 3: be good people and productive citizens. And so those are

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Speaker 3: two things that are sort of top of mind all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 1: How much do you tell your children about your work

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Speaker 1: and especially your your Freely Sober book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So my kids know they're seven and nine, so they

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Speaker 3: know they would say like, oh yeah, like mom's sober.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that my daughter who's seven, really is

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Speaker 3: getting it this time. Yeah, but my son gets it

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Speaker 3: and I I don't. Of course, they don't know all

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Speaker 3: the crazy stories and some of the stuff that I

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Speaker 3: I've talked about online. However, I really like being transparent

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Speaker 3: with them because I think that is going to be

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Speaker 3: really good for them when the time comes for them

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Speaker 3: to make decisions.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's one thing to tell kid, hey, you.

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Speaker 3: Shouldn't drink, you're not supposed to drink, but then you

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Speaker 3: know you're at home drinking in front of them a lot. Sure,

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Speaker 3: and then yeah, you know, it's another thing to be like,

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Speaker 3: we don't drink, and here's why. And we point back to,

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Speaker 3: you know, going back to my husband's story, I mean

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Speaker 3: his mother like completely destroyed, her life destroyed. There's like

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Speaker 3: lives through her alcohol and drug use, which we also

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Speaker 3: talk about that's.

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Speaker 2: Mental illness and all of these things.

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Speaker 3: And then but it's also in my family and so

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Speaker 3: we're able to say, hey, guess what, like some people

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Speaker 3: are more prone to being addicted, and you have that

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Speaker 3: in our family, so you need to be really careful

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Speaker 3: about the decisions you make around drugs and alcohol.

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Speaker 2: And of course right now they're like, well, we're never

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Speaker 2: going to do that. Well, okay, of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: yeah a teenager. Yeah, so I do worry about that.

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Speaker 3: But I know that kids that have a reason are

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Speaker 3: much more likely to really truly think about what they're doing,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to a kid that's just being told no

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Speaker 3: and they don't really understand why.

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Speaker 1: I think kids notice a lot more than we think.

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Speaker 1: I think back to my daughter is fifteen, and she

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Speaker 1: was when the pandemic began. She was ten. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a big drinker. We're just not big drinkers. I often

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Speaker 1: joked that, like I'd you know, I'd like to drink more,

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Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing. But when the pandemic began,

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Speaker 1: we were having kind of FaceTime drinks with our friends

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Speaker 1: a lot, and my daughter, who was ten at the time,

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Speaker 1: was like, is are people developing drinking problems right now? Like,

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Speaker 1: and she was just ten. I mean, Joe, there's no

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Speaker 1: reason for her to know that people did develop drinking

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Speaker 1: problems during the pandemic, and that was a big spur

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Speaker 1: of alcoholism for a lot of people who suddenly found

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Speaker 1: themselves kind of would not a lot to do except

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Speaker 1: open bottles of wine.

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Speaker 3: And that, I mean the most the most powerful statistic

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Speaker 3: that I cite is that moms with children five and

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Speaker 3: under they increased their drinking by three hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: And that's just like a shocking.

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Speaker 1: I'm always like when I the time, I never I

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Speaker 1: just never have like the time for.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just you know, people were ordering in their

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Speaker 3: boxed wine, and I remember lots of jokes about that.

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Speaker 2: It was very culturally in the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I thought, you meant, yeah, in general when they

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Speaker 1: have kids.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, during the pandamic, I mean, it does

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Speaker 3: increase rights. A pandemic was like ultra ultra and I

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Speaker 3: don't you know, we're we're yet to see, like what

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Speaker 3: are the long term effects you got? I mean I

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Speaker 3: quit drinking during COVID, so it definitely like it stepped

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Speaker 3: up for me. And then I quit drinking in September

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, so you know, I'm glad.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to say that.

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Speaker 3: You know, my daughter was two, my son was four,

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Speaker 3: They're probably not going to remember any of that, and

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Speaker 3: so I'm thankful, but I can understand why there was

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Speaker 3: such an increase.

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Speaker 2: But the good news is.

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Speaker 3: Like we are seeing a lot more sobriety just across

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Speaker 3: the board, across the mission.

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Speaker 1: Young people aren't drinking anymore in.

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Speaker 2: All kinds of reasons.

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Speaker 3: I think the health side of it, and people are

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Speaker 3: learning so much more about the connections to cancer and

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Speaker 3: all kinds of other issues. I think that sort of

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Speaker 3: education is making an impact for a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that lasts like I always kind of

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Speaker 1: think that, you know, yeah, young people aren't really drinking.

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Speaker 1: I also kind of think that they might maybe using

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Speaker 1: other substances more. I feel like weed has become legal

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Speaker 1: in a lot of places. But do you think that that, like,

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Speaker 1: does gen Z become the generation that kind of breaks

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Speaker 1: the casual drinks after work and the alcohol being a

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Speaker 1: focal point of socializing.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine when it is not a focal point

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Speaker 3: of socializing.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not necessarily against that all the time.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not like yeah, yeah, but I do

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Speaker 3: think that that's possible because you know, statistics show the

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Speaker 3: later that you drink for the first time. Say you

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Speaker 3: drink for the first time at age twenty one or

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Speaker 3: twenty two, you are much less likely to develop a

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Speaker 3: problem with it. The earlier you drink, the more likely

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Speaker 3: you are to develop a problem with it. And so

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Speaker 3: if we have people that are waiting until later, better,

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Speaker 3: I do think that that's going to trickle down to have.

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Speaker 2: A positive effect on sort of the habits.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the thing is, is I just just

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Speaker 3: kind of a random aside, but just it's crazy when

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Speaker 3: you look at AA, you look at alan On for

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Speaker 3: family members, and just like all the destruction the alcohol

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Speaker 3: is caused in families.

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Speaker 2: Sure, how unseeriously it.

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Speaker 3: Is sometimes taken, and it is a big deal to

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Speaker 3: really be serious about letting kids know, letting people know that.

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Speaker 2: This is a drug.

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Speaker 3: You have to use it responsibly and it's not something

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Speaker 3: to take lightly, which is what's very scary about college,

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Speaker 3: which is like a sanctioned binetaking emporiums.

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Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, what advice would you give your sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old self having to do this all over again? What

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Speaker 1: a sixteen year old Erica need to know?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I've never thought that like that specific question,

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Speaker 3: I would say to Oh, my goodness, I would say,

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Speaker 3: lean in to your friends that are not big drinkers

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Speaker 3: and partiers.

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Speaker 2: Try to make.

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Speaker 3: Some friends that that's not like the focal point of

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Speaker 3: what they're doing, and latch onto them in meaningful ways.

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Speaker 3: It's so hard when you're so young and you feel

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Speaker 3: invincible and you're just like, I'm gonna.

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Speaker 2: Worry about that later. And that was a lot of

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Speaker 2: my mindset.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, sure, like yeah, like later, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: deal with this.

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Speaker 2: But now I'm in college.

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Speaker 3: Right right now, I'm having fun and I don't know

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Speaker 3: that you can talk a young person out of it,

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Speaker 3: but maybe just to zoom forward and to think, actually

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Speaker 3: to think about how it had affected my family, like

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Speaker 3: my grandfathers who had suffered from alcoholism, like to actually

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Speaker 3: be like, let me sit you down and tell you

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Speaker 3: like what you need to know, because nobody did that

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Speaker 3: for me like I'm doing for my kids, and that

442
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 3: may have made an impact on me.

443
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: And was there like was that the start of you

444
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: would say, developing a drinking issue or did that come later?

445
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I really started drinking at about sixteen

446
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 3: or seventeen. It was a lot more sort of sporadic

447
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: back in that time, and I.

448
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: Had a lot of guilt about it.

449
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 3: Like I was, like I always say, I was like

450
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: the girl at the party, like drunk talking.

451
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 2: About God to people like so annoying. Nobody likes that person.

452
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: I hate to say, I kind of would like that person.

453
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: But okay, yeah I did, I hear you. But we

454
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 1: would have been friends.

455
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean there are people that

456
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 2: love that and so.

457
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 3: But I think it was really my guilt talking like

458
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: I know, I'm not supposed to be doing this, this

459
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 3: isn't the right behavior for me. But you know, I

460
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 3: would say things really took a turn for the worst,

461
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 3: just like in young adulthood, especially when I was living

462
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 3: in DC and just the whole world is alcohol when

463
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 3: you're living as an intern in DC.

464
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean everything kind.

465
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: Of You mentioned, you know, drinking in the Capitol Building,

466
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm sure lots of people, Oh

467
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm drinking in the Capitol Building. I mean that's a.

468
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: Lot under their desks like all the time. Like people

469
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 3: actually still have Martini lunches.

470
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 2: You know.

471
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 3: It's it's right, it's almost like it's the sixties.

472
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: All over again for some people, and it's.

473
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: The only acceptable kind of careers where I think that

474
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be weird at all if I saw a

475
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: bunch of congressmen having martinis with lunch in d C.

476
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: It's like a standard thing that happens or their interns,

477
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: to be honest, right.

478
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: Right, And of course everything is a happy hour. I

479
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 3: mean every event, like constantly trying to it's like, let's

480
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 3: get as many people here as possible.

481
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: Freebooze.

482
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 4: I mean yeah, free food, but yes, and yeah both

483
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 4: so right, it's as you really got to wor they

484
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 4: almost should have like an educational like you must do

485
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 4: alcohol one.

486
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: On one when you come to DC and be an intern,

487
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 3: because you're going to get lost in all of this.

488
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 3: And it's also you know, it's like a nostalgic thing,

489
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: like as a journalist, you know, it was like, oh,

490
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: you know, thinking about these like old school journalists.

491
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: And like meeting in the bottom the base of the bar. Yeah,

492
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: and they have.

493
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 3: Those basement bars that are super almost like from a

494
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 3: book or something, and so you know, it's nice.

495
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: But it's funny that you say that nostalgia thing because

496
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: I you know, in the early day it being a writer,

497
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: I was like I'm going to have a bird when

498
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: I do drink. I'm a brown liquor kind of girl,

499
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: so I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna have a bourbon

500
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: and write my column and then I'd be like, wow,

501
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: I cannot write at all on this.

502
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: I know.

503
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: Work for me. I am now tired. I want to

504
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: write an up. I'm not a drinking writer at all.

505
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is something like that we make up in

506
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 3: our heads really about being like, oh, I'm gonna go

507
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: to the bar and like it'll be it'll be like

508
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: a fun thing that I'm doing, and you know, even

509
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 3: like going to a bar by yourself, like there was

510
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 3: something sophisticated about that.

511
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: For me, I have a memory of doing this. I

512
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: don't even know where.

513
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 3: Or I was in DuPont Circle and I went to

514
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 3: this like fancy, cute little bar and have a martini

515
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: and then like I had another one and they were

516
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: like really big and strong, and then I was like

517
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 3: now I'm in DuPont Circle and I have to get

518
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 3: home now, and it doesn't feel so magical anymore.

519
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like glamorous to now have to figure out

520
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: my way home.

521
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 3: Right right, So the Metro is not glamorous, fy im.

522
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: At it all. Well, this conversation, I think you're a

523
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: fantastic writer and you tell a really compelling story. I

524
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: can't wait to read Freely Sober by it. Pre order

525
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: it now anywhere you guys get your books. Leave us

526
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: here with your best tip for my listeners on how

527
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: they can improve their lives.

528
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: Goodness, that is so hardcore.

529
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 3: How to improve your life, I would say, honestly, I

530
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 3: would say, start taking your spiritual life as seriously as

531
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 3: you take the rest of your life, because when this

532
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: spiritual and faith component of your life is aligned and strong,

533
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 3: I think everything else kind of falls into place after that,

534
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: and we kind of put that to the side. So

535
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: I would say, you know, wherever you land there, make

536
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 3: that like a really strong focus this year, because all

537
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 3: your priorities sort of come under that.

538
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 2: So that's what I would say.

539
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: I love that she is Erica Anderson. Read her work,

540
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: Order her upcoming book, Freely Sober. Read her life last book,

541
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: Leaving Cloud Nine. Thank you so much for coming on, Erica,