1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: dot com. You and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry and it's like the 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: holiday season. I feel great. It is Holidays with a 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: Z and we're gonna do what we almost did for 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: a short stuff. Oh yes, Chuck, you're commended for for 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: that call. Well, I was just like I kind of 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: wanted to do this one. Always is a long stuff. 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: We don't have a show called medium stuff, yet we 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: have a so so stuffed called Stuff you should Know. Yeah, um, 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, I saw that documentary Atari game over a 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: few years ago, and I also guested on tech Stuff 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: and did a two part episode on the history of Atari. 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: It's a good one with Strickland's great too, and um, 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: we could probably do Atari on its own at some 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: point too. I agree. I think we definitely should. But 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: this is I mean, I was about to say if 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: Strickland and I could get two episodes out of it, 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: but you know how that guy goes on. Oh my god, 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: he's the hardest working man in podcast business. I'll tell 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: you that. Just ask um. So we're talking today about 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: what is widely believed to be the worst video game 23 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: of all time, except that it's not. Except that it's not. Yes, 24 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: it's true. I love stories like this where it's like 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: everything you thought you knew was wrong and really stop 26 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: and ask yourself, how did you even know that this 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: truth that you knew before? I love that man. Yeah, 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: et the Atari video game. A lot of people it's 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: that whole internet bandwagon thing. I think, Yes, worst game 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: of all time. They try to bury it in the desert. 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: It was so bad killed Atari killed the whole stinking industry, right, 32 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: But it was just that bad of a game. But 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: you've played it, no, Yeah, um, I will say this, 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: it may be one of the one of the most 35 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: disappointing games of all time. It could be, yes, um, 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: because if you were a kid back then like me 37 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: and you and you played Atari like I did, um, 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: it was. It was a disappointment. It was greatly anticipated. 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of anticipation that was partial, you know, 40 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: that was That was probably the biggest reason why it 41 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: gets all the attention because it was et. It wasn't 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: uh what was that game? Yeah? Or fast Food? There 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: were so many bad video games for Atari. Yeah, there 44 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: were a lot. It was awful. So will this come 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: out and say, no, ET is not the worst video 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: game of all time. There were a lot of worse, 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: far far worse video games uh than ET. But like 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: you were saying, as far as the anticipation went, as 49 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: far as the lighttown went, as far as the loss 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: of money, when you can understand how people would say 51 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: this is the worst of all the time, but also 52 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: the timing of its failure was so utterly, amazingly perfect 53 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: that it just took it from worst video game of 54 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: all time to worst video game of all time. Yeah, 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: it's like here atari in video home console game industry, 56 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: you're not doing well, and I notice you're sinking. Let 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: me tie this anvil around your ankle that shaped like 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: ET's right. It's just really bad timing. So let's get 59 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: into the story because it's one of the more interesting ones, 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: and it features a great guy named Howard Scott Warshaw, who, 61 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: if you've seen the movie Game Over you have probably 62 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: come to really like and admire good dude, good dude, 63 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: brilliant designer and like a just a genuinely great guy. 64 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: Uh he um this the story begins back in two 65 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: I believe. Um. Yeah, it was Uh. He was a 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: design ord Atari. He'd apparently started out writing code at 67 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Hewlett Packard and it was very unhappy, so he made 68 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: the move over to Atari, even though he had zero 69 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: experience with game design, but he was really an exciting 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: game designer because he came up with some really innovative ideas. 71 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: Yes he Uh, Yours Revenge is one of the best 72 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: Atari games of all time. Did you have that one? Oh? Yeah, 73 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: I never played it. It's great. Great. It's kind of 74 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: space invaderies or something. It's like a shooter thing, kind 75 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: of yeah, single screen shooter. Well you're a h um. 76 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: I guess you're a yar and you're this sort of 77 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: bug like creature and um, instead of shooting at something 78 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: to to chip away at it, you do it so 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: with your body, so you just fly into this. Oh 80 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: I think that went. Uh, you would fly into this. 81 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, all this stuff was supposed to 82 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: represent like a spaceship or a planet, but it was 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: made up of you know, blocks and tubes, so I 84 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: don't even know what it was. But your whole point 85 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: was to make it smaller and you would fly into 86 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: I know you're instead of yeah, shooting, you would fly 87 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: into it. For my money, that kind of game the 88 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: best of all time with Centipede. Cinnipede is great, it 89 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: was great. I mean a lot of those games I 90 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: played at ay when I happened upon an arcade, Galagha 91 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: and Frogger and Cinipede and Defender like those are still 92 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: really good challenging joun games. Yeah, ms pac Man, they 93 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: just stand up still for sure. It's not like you 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: go to Galagha or jous now and you're like, this 95 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: is easy. What was I thinking? I was such a kid. 96 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: There's still hard challenging games. And I think that's sort 97 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: of the key to a good video game is it's 98 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: got to be winnable, but it's got to be hard 99 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: because the kid didn't want to, you know, a pushover, 100 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: but a kid also wants to win. So Howard Scott 101 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: warsaw knew this like he was a a game designer. 102 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: He wasn't like a code monkey or anything like that. 103 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: He was a game designer, an artist. I'm sure he 104 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: considered himself, especially at the time, and he should have. 105 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: One of the other things he was known for, um 106 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: was he was the guy who realized that you could 107 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: make a game way more enjoyable if you created a 108 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: backstory for it. So rather than like, uh, drive this 109 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: car there, you're actually running away from this gang of 110 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, international mafia guys who are trying to kidnap 111 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: your girlfriend or whatever, you make up a backstory for it. 112 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: The player reads this backstory and then plays, they care 113 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: that much more about the person because their imagination is 114 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: now kicked in. They're not just doing a mindless task. 115 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: They're imagining what's going on in computer world. And he 116 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: did that for for games, and he was one of 117 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: the first, if not the first designer to create backstories 118 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: and biographies for his characters and games. Yeah, and you 119 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: know what just now is sort of hitting me that 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: um part of the appeal was the imagination of the kids. 121 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: So like when you got the game Adventure or Asteroids 122 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: and Asteroids you are a pencil drawn triangle right, shooting 123 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: at pencil drawn um shapes, shooting pencils at pencil drawn shapes, 124 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: shooting dots at pencil drawn shapes. An Adventure, you are 125 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: a cube that flew around with an arrow attached to 126 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: you that was supposed to be your sword. But when 127 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: you look at the actual cartridge or the box that 128 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: it came in. They had this great artwork of this 129 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: night on a horse with his sword drawn or in 130 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: in asteroids. This han solo like pilot, like cruising through 131 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: a you know, an asteroid field, and that would kick starts. 132 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: That kick starts the imagination of a ten year old 133 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: and then they forget they're a cube or an arrow. Yeah, 134 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: it makes it that much more real. Yeah, it was 135 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: really really cool because the imagination can do some pretty 136 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: amazing stuff with eight bites of graphic. Yeah, you know 137 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: for sure, um so uh. Warshaw figured this out, Yeah, 138 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: designing worlds. He would design easter eggs into his games too. Yeah, 139 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: he was in the first, but yes, no, but he 140 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: he was an early person to do that. The Adventure 141 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: was the first, I think, And in addition to Yours Revenge, 142 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: he also already had a hit um in the Raiders 143 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: of the Lost Art game. He had designed that and 144 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: it's still play that so much. I read you did 145 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: so from what I never played that one. From what 146 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: I understand you, it was extremely difficult. You it required 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: both joy sticks. Yeah, there was. I think I read 148 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: somewhere that there were thirty three screens, which is on 149 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: heard of. I could buy that um and that like 150 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: people still have trouble beating it today. Well, it's really 151 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: it was really hard. Um. I remember very specifically. There 152 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:44,119 Speaker 1: was one part where you were to parachute um parachute 153 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: from one screen and it would all of a sudden 154 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: you went to the bottom and you it would pop 155 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: up and you're on the next screen going down and 156 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: there's a tree on the left and you had to 157 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: start that jump early, going hard left and hook onto 158 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: that tree with your parachute. If you hit it the 159 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: wrong angle, it burst your parachute and you would die. 160 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: And if you didn't, you would hook onto it and 161 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: slide perfectly. And it was probably one of the hardest 162 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: things I've ever had to do in a video game, 163 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: you know, as far as video gameplay though. Really it 164 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: was very very challenging, but it was possible. So when 165 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: you tried it twenty seven times and you nailed it 166 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: on that like, you would run around the neighborhood telling 167 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: all your friends that you nailed the parachute jump really 168 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: really hard. But it was so hard that it was like, um, 169 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: you would get frustrated. It kept you sucked. No, no, no, 170 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: You're like, I know you can get it and that's 171 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: where et messed up. But we'll get to that, okay, 172 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: so um on June, it's funny. He remembers this the 173 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: date on Juneo Howard's got warsaw I was hanging around 174 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: Otari and he gets a phone call. He gets a 175 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: phone call from the CEO, Ray Kassar himself. That was 176 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: a big deal back it and Rake Star says, hey, kid, 177 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: we know you, we love you. We've got something going 178 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: on with Steven Spielberg. He remembers that you made the 179 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: Raiders of the Lost art game for him. He thinks, 180 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: you're a certifiable genius. But we have a special assignment 181 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: for you. We want you to make the e T 182 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: video game. Can you do it? Wait, don't answer yet. 183 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: Can you do it in five weeks? Then he went sure, Yeah, 184 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: he said yeah, which I mean even today, you're like 185 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: five weeks. That doesn't sound very long. That was less 186 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: than a tenth of the time that it would normally take. Yeah. 187 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: And he had the little secret is that he had 188 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: already called some other people in the company and said 189 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: the CEO he has this, like, is this even possible? 190 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: Or am I just crazy for asking this guy to 191 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: do this? In five weeks because it takes five or 192 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: six months. And they all said no, it's not possible. 193 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: Then he said, all, I'm gonna ask him anyway, right, 194 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: And and Howard Scott Warsaw didn't realize that they had 195 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: already told them like no, they can't be done when 196 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: he said yes, But he was locked in the punch 197 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: and he was twenty four years old and full of 198 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: full of exuberance and hubrists and all sorts of stuff, 199 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: and said I can do this. So he did. And 200 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: the reason we should say the reason why this the 201 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: schedule was so shortened. Usually took five to six months 202 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: for a game to be to be developed, and he 203 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: had five weeks to do it. And the reason why 204 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: it was because the haggling the deal um to get 205 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: the rights for the et game for Atorry to purchase them, 206 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: which they bought for twenty one million dollars, took way 207 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: longer than expected, and they really wanted this game out 208 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: for in time for Christmas. The whole deal. So because 209 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: of the because the deal had worked all the way 210 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: up into the summer and Christmas was on the other edge, 211 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: they needed also several weeks to manufacture the actual cartridges 212 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: and get them into stores. If you lay it all 213 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: this timeline out, they left five weeks to develop a 214 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: game from scratch, so they knew just the guy to 215 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: do it, and it was Howard's got Warshaw, and Howard said, 216 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: I'll give it a shot. I'm gonna do it. Yeah. 217 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: And um, I should point out that when you say 218 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: five or six months is the usual time, five or 219 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: six months was fast. The usual time was more than that. 220 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: Well you also probably had a team working on it, 221 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: Like five or six months was the Rush version anyway? 222 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think that the pretty delightful 223 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: prog Rock version did that have a they should add 224 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: their own video game. I'm surprised they didn't. They were like, 225 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: right there, they did that wheelhouse, we would like game 226 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: or something. We would know. There's no way we wouldn't 227 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: know about the Rush twelve Atari game. So Warshaw gets 228 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: to meet with Steven Spielberg in the l A and 229 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: was not given direction or a brief. He meets with 230 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: Spielberg says, here's what I proposed, this adventure game that 231 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: follows the plot of the film somewhat where the kid 232 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: is et playing the game. You are et and you 233 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: got to go around and collect all these pieces to 234 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: build a phone so you can phone home, and the 235 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: government's after you, and these bad doctors are after you. 236 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: It's just like your movie. And Spielberg was like, well, 237 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: can't you just have him like running around eating Reese's 238 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: pieces like pac Man? And he went, oh, there's this 239 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: great there's this great quote where he's like, here, here's 240 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: one of my idols, Steven Spielberg asking me to knock 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: off pac Man for the ET game. And I thought, well, 242 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: g Stephen, couldn't you make something more like The Day 243 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: of the Earth's to Burn Burn Um? So he he 244 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: apparently had to do a little fancy footwork to talk 245 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: Spielberg into going with his vision rather than a pac 246 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: Man knockoff of ET, which who knows, may have may 247 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: have sold a lot better, but it was he got 248 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: him to agree to his vision for this game. He said, no, 249 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: this is a groundbreaking movie. We need to make a 250 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: groundbreaking game. And so Spielberg agreed to it, and Warshaw 251 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: started to get to work. So we should probably take 252 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: a break before Scott Howard. Scott really jumps in, alright, Chuck. 253 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: So it's basically the beginning of July and Howard Scott 254 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: Warshaw is the sole programmer for an et video game. 255 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: Atari's biggest bet that they spent twenty one million dollars 256 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: on the rights to that they're going to spend an 257 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: additional five million dollars on the advertising budget, for the 258 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: most anyone's ever spent on a video game up to 259 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: that point. He's the only programmer who's going to make 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: this game, and he has five weeks to do it, which, 261 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: from what I understand, no one I'd ever done before. Yeah, 262 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: and this was Atari was a giant at the time. 263 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: Um if video if the video game industry was beginning 264 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to slip. It wasn't like the public didn't really realize 265 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: that yet. The industry may have, but Atari held about 266 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: eight of the market. Um they were at about two 267 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: billion in annual sales, about three quarters of billion in profit, 268 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: which is just unheard of. About two billion in profit 269 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: in today's money. Yeah, so a ton of money. But 270 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: they saw the writing on the wall. They knew that 271 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: the personal computer like the Common or sixty four that 272 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: could play games but also do a lot more was 273 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: a real genuine threat to the home console. So I 274 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: read a contemporary article in The New York Times in 275 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: from Night three talking about this, and Atari said they 276 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: did not see the writing on the wall. Well, one 277 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: of them said, the first six months of UH three 278 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: was one way. The second six months it was like 279 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: we were in a totally different business. Yeah, but if 280 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: you if you read interviews with him now, I think 281 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: that might have been Oh the guy covering is well, yeah, 282 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: I don't think you want to go out in the 283 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: press in the moment and say, hey, everyone, we're super 284 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: scared investors, don't freak out, don't panic, You're right, Chuck. 285 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: I feel a little foolish. Uh So they what they 286 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: did was they set Warshaw up with um everything he 287 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: would have at work, they set him up at home. 288 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: So the only time he could not be working on 289 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: this game was his very short drive over to the office. 290 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: And he worked on it almost NonStop for five weeks. 291 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: He had a manager that was assigned to him to 292 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: make sure that he ate. That was I'm sure not 293 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: the manager's only duty, but it was one of the 294 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: manager's new jobs was to make sure that Warshaw ate 295 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: every day. How about a waffle? Sure, whatever, Stop bothering me. 296 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Eats in the pit again. So for five weeks he 297 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: worked almost like you said, twenty four hours a day. 298 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: He said, it's the hardest he's ever worked in his 299 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: entire life. And when five weeks came and went, he 300 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: handed off his He handed off the game. He finished it. 301 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: He he completed it in time. And it wasn't done 302 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: in his opinion, or it would turn out in anybody's opinion, 303 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: but it was done. It was a complete game that 304 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: he had finished in five weeks, the et video game, 305 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: and it wasn't just something like like a pac Man knockoff. 306 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: He given real thoughts to it and created a world 307 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: that was much different from a lot of the other 308 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: games at the time. At the time, he it was 309 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: a world like it was a cube shaped world with 310 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: six screens, and so if you walked to the left, 311 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: you knew you were going to end up on this 312 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: other screen. If you walked up, you wouldn't end up 313 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: on the other screen. It was a world that you 314 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: were navigating, rather than say like Yar's Revenge, which is 315 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: just one screen and everything's happening on the one screen, 316 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: and it may imply motion or something like this. With 317 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: with the e T game, you were moving from one 318 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: area of this world to the next X. Yeah, which 319 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: is it wasn't. It wasn't new, but it was. It wasn't. 320 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't standard to have six screens, especially if you 321 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: had five weeks to do it. Give we gut a break. Yeah. Yeah, No, 322 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it should. What I'm saying is that, um, 323 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: it wasn't like some big revolutionary thing like the Raiders 324 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: game was pre this and it had thirty something screen 325 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: an adventure like kids were used to this by this point, 326 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like, oh wait, do they get a 327 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: load of six screens? Like leaving the screen? I see, 328 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: But I think he Scott Howard Scot Worshaw should have 329 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: gone to everybody's house and been like, here's your copy 330 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: of ETV games. Well, you know I made this in 331 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: five weeks. Well he designed Easter Eggs in there too, 332 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: And I kind of wondered, like how much time did 333 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: he spen doing that with his own initials and like 334 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: the Little Yards Revenge Flower. I hadn't really thought about that. 335 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. So he says the time was of 336 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: the essence, though I just maybe put that last on 337 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: the list. He says today that Hetty had one more 338 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: week to just troubleshoot. He could have worked out all 339 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: the kinks. He could have worked out the kinks in 340 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: one more Easter egg. But he handed it out. He 341 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: handed it off to Atari, and Atari said genius. They 342 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: gave it to Steven Spielberg to play. Spielberg apparently liked 343 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: it and in the game, Um, it wasn't It wasn't 344 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: just some dumb clunky game. It was a mediocre game. 345 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: But it was a game, and it was done, and 346 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: it was out the door, and they got it out 347 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: in time for Christmas. The cartridges shipped. Um. If you 348 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: go back onto YouTube and search ET game add or commercial, 349 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: it brings up some extraordinarily nostalgic ads of ET dressed 350 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: to Santa Claus playing his own video game. Um of 351 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: a kid like receiving the ET video game from ET 352 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: out in the shed. Just amazing stuff. So not only 353 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: is it like Christmas time feeling, but like Christmas time 354 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: feeling Chris. It's nice. It's just like the the taste 355 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: of ice sugar cookies swells from the inside of your mouth. 356 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: You almost gag on it. It's so overpowering. So they 357 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: they produce well, we don't know for sure how many, 358 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: maybe as many as twelve million copies of this at 359 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: least four million. That's part of the urban legend. Yeah, 360 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think there's an exact exact number, 361 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: but millions of copies of these were produced. Twenty one 362 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: million dollars invested in the licensing, five million dollars in 363 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: advertising and marketing, not just I mean, who knows what 364 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: they paid Worshaw or for the actual production. I mean, 365 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: I doubt if it was millions of dollars, but he's 366 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: probably salaried. They sunk a whole lot of money into 367 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: this thing and sold Okay, at first they sold about 368 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: a half a million copies and then and I remember, 369 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: you know you do oh yeah, oh, word got around 370 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: and this was obviously long before the internet, like you 371 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: could still sell some stuff back then, but where everyone 372 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: realized it stunk. But and that's what was going on. 373 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: But literally kid two kid two kid and cul de 374 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: sacs and classrooms got the word that the ET game stunk, 375 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: and it killed it. It did it is little kids 376 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: killed it. They sold like a half a million copies 377 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: right out of the gate almost and then it it 378 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: peaked right there very quickly, right around the Christmas season, right, yeah, 379 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: I mean, just think about that. Though. It was children 380 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: led to the demise. It's not like kids read an 381 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: article in the newspaper, even a review on the et game. 382 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: It was kids going, man, that game stinks. What you 383 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: bought that? Oh, don't buy it at stinks? Yeah, it's 384 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: it's terrible. And that happened like a game of telephone 385 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: all around the country. That's really cool. Simultaneously, kids get 386 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: things done, they do, man. So like you said, it 387 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: happened pretty fast. They peaked at a half a million copies, 388 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: and over time it managed to sell another million on 389 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: top of that, So a million and a half copies success. 390 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: I think it's like actually a Natari's top ten of 391 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: best sellers. But the problem is, if this story is 392 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: a story of everything or anything, it's not the story 393 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: of a over overconfident game designer making a terrible game. 394 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: It's a very confident game designer making a middling game. 395 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: If it's a story of anything, it is of executives 396 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: being drunk with confidence in hubrists that no matter what 397 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: they put out. If it's tied to a hot property 398 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: of like a movie or something, it's gonna sell. It 399 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the game is, it's gonna sell. Problem one. 400 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: Problem two was they forecasted based on that Hubrist too. 401 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: So not only did they say it's gonna sell no 402 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: matter what we put out, it's gonna sell bigger than 403 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: anything we've ever put out before. And they ordered four 404 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: million cartridges. Well again, it's sold a million and a 405 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: half and two and a half million cartridges were sitting 406 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: in warehouses. Not to mention once that we're starting to 407 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: be taken back, because not only did did kids go 408 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: I don't want this game, I want to take it 409 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: back and took it, took it to the stores. The 410 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: store started taking their games back to Atari. So Aster 411 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: is like, wait, wait a minute, everybody, this is et 412 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: the game. What are you doing? Put this in your 413 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: and shut up? And people didn't listen. Yeah, and you 414 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: can hardly blame the executives. I mean they were like, 415 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: Warshaw plus Spielberg is going to be another hit because 416 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: we had it in Raiders, So I sort of get it. 417 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: But it was it was just it was that timeline, 418 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: right like that was that was the big problem. It 419 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: was all the timeline. He could have created a game 420 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: as good as raiders. Right, Yeah, I've given five six months. 421 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure even given two months, you probably probably could 422 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: have made an even better game. But it was it 423 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 1: was kind of a boring game. It wasn't that fun. 424 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: There's a very famous quote from the New York Times 425 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: um article in two where a little ten year old said, 426 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't that fun, which was kind of it. Yeah, 427 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: that's all you need to say. And it wasn't. And 428 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: not only was it not fun, but um, and I 429 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: don't even I guess you could call it a bug. 430 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: It was. It seems more like bad design than just 431 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: a mistake. Um. But what would happen as E T 432 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: would fall into these pits and then he could levitate 433 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: back out, But depending on which way you were or 434 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: even how you're holding the joystick, the slightest little move 435 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: would cause ET to fall back down into that pit, 436 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: no matter what direction you went. Sometimes. Yeah, but it 437 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 1: wasn't like all the time it was. Um. It happened 438 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: enough though to where as a kid, Remember you asked 439 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: me earlier if it was frustrating trying to parachute is indy? 440 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: It was not because you knew you could do it. 441 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: This was frustrating. Kids got frustrated because E T was 442 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: falling in the pit and he would get out and 443 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: he would fall in the pit. And then you do 444 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: that enough times and you're like, I'm gonna play Yards 445 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: Revenge or any of my other games. Do you have 446 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: fast food? And kids put it down? Yea, you know 447 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: they put down. Well, he didn't put down the joystick 448 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: and go outside and play. That would be like the 449 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: movie ending. They just popped it out and put in 450 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: the game that they liked. So, um, this was this 451 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: was a big deal for Atari, um because it came 452 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: at at the worst possible time. And um, speaking of 453 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: the worst possible time, let's take a break and do 454 00:25:41,520 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: ad breaking. We'll come right back alright, Chuck. So, like 455 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: I was saying, this came at a really terrible time 456 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: for Attar, you kind of talked about how the personal 457 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: computer industry was starting to eat into their profits big time, 458 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: and um, they really needed this et bet to pay off. 459 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: And not only did it not pay off, they lost 460 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars on this this It was 461 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 1: a huge catastrophic bet for Atari, and the numbers are 462 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: just stunning. In like you said in nineteen eighty two, 463 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: Atari's profits were two billion dollars in UM in today's money. No, 464 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: that was yeah, the profits, I'm sorry, in today's money. 465 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: Their gross was two billions UM. In the second quarter 466 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty three, they posted a loss of three 467 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: d ten million dollars five thirty six million dollar lost 468 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: for the whole year. By four the company had been sold. 469 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: So it went from two billion dollars in profits to 470 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: a loss of five hundred and thirty six million dollars 471 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: over the course of a year. Yes, and it was 472 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: not because of ET. But this is the thing. Okay, 473 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: so it gets even worse. Hold on, we're not there yet. 474 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm getting excited. The whole video game industry actually went down. 475 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: So there's something called the North American video game Crash 476 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: of three, where not only did the did Atari go under, 477 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: basically the industry did so the whole the whole industry 478 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: in three had a three point two billion dollars in sales. 479 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: By two years later they had a hundred million dollars 480 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: in sales. It was a crash like that is a 481 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: catastrophic crash. And like you're saying, no, it wasn't because 482 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: of ET, but imagine this, think about this, All of 483 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: that has been laid ever since then at the feet 484 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: of ET the video game and Howard Scott Warshaw. People 485 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: look at him and say, you ruined the video game 486 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: industry single handedly. That's how he's thought of. I think 487 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: that was the case up until like two thousand fourteen 488 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: or fifteen, right, Yeah, I mean I think people in 489 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: the know knew that that was not the case. But 490 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: the popular pop culture opinion of him. Yeah maybe. But um, 491 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: let's say E was a big hit. It would not 492 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: have saved Atari. No, it might have like staved the 493 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: bleeding a little bit, but would have been a drop 494 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: in the bucket basically. Yeah. Um, I mean, I certainly 495 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: feel bad for Warshaw. Um, but he has he's a 496 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: good inning, So stick around for that. Don't go anywhere. 497 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: After ET, he took some time off. He said that, uh, 498 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: he just needed to sort of recover, I believe was 499 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: the words he used. He went into real estate, uh 500 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: and did not enjoy that at all. Um. And eventually 501 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: he became a psychotherapist, and that's what he does today. 502 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: He's a he's labeled the Silicon Valley Psychotherapists and sort 503 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: of specializes in talking. He jokes that he's fluent in 504 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: English and NERD, so I think kind of specializes in 505 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: talking to Silicon Valley types, um about their work problems. Yeah, 506 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: certainly a man that can identify you know. Yeah, Yeah, 507 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: he's a great psychotherapist. It seems like he definitely would be. Yeah. 508 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: So he definitely made peace with the whole thing, and 509 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: I think he um. He very frequently jokes. I've seen 510 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: it in more than one article that he says, Um, 511 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: he kind of enjoys it when people say that Eats 512 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: the worst video game of all time, because people also 513 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: say that you yours Revenge is one of the best 514 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: video games of all time. So he has the greatest 515 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: range of any video designer ever. So he definitely has 516 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: like a I think it took him a little while, 517 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: that's the impression I have to make peace with it. 518 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: But he made peace with it. And I think one 519 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: of the reasons he was able to make peace with it. 520 00:29:53,680 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: And I'm just armchair psychologizing here, but he um, realize, Yeah, 521 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: I've used it before and you said the exact same thing. 522 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: I think too. Yeah, Um, he realized that it wasn't 523 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: the worst video game of all time. And that a 524 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: lot of the people who were saying it was the 525 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,239 Speaker 1: worst video game of all time didn't know what they 526 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: were talking about, which has to be super liberating, and 527 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: the whole world's like you ruined everything. And then you realize, 528 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: like they don't even know what they're saying, you can 529 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: just kind of let it roll off your back a 530 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: little more easily. So the the cherry on top of 531 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: this story, we mentioned this documentary Atari Game over Um. 532 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: It is about the legend of the story of the 533 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: et game, which continued after its demise, with this urban 534 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: legend that Atari was so distraught and embarrassed by this 535 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: game that they had all the remaining boxes shipped out 536 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: and buried in the desert under submit. Initially, you're like, 537 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. Why would it already spend 538 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: all this money to do this when they could just 539 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: burn them, sell them in the dollar been, do anything 540 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: other than this weird plan to bury them out in 541 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: the desert of New Mexico. Yeah, and a lot of 542 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: people took it when it was kind of an initial 543 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: rumor that like Atari was trying to bury their shame. 544 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: That's how it just went that much further to point 545 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: out how bad the each video game was. Atari was 546 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: trying to bury it and forget about it. Uh So, 547 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, there was um a party where 548 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: there was an Atari former Atari person there and a 549 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: guy named Mike Burns. I was talking to him and 550 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: said something about, yeah, this urban legend that you guys 551 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: did this, and apparently the answer was just sheepish enough 552 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: to where he was like, wait a minute, that true? 553 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: So did he did he fund this documentary? Is that 554 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: how that worked? I think he he's a guy who 555 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: makes things happen, he brings people together. I think yes, 556 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: he definitely put some of his own money into it, 557 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: but I think he also got others to to put 558 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: money into it as well. Okay, I didn't know if 559 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: he was involved in the dock itself or just financing 560 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: the dig, but Zack Pinn made this documentary. Um. Zack 561 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: pan a great, great writer. Um ironically wrote the movie 562 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: Ready Player one, which talks about adventure and Easter eggs 563 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: and all that fun stuff. So he's he's written a 564 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: bunch of movies, a bunch of the Marvel movies and stuff. Um, 565 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: And it was clearly a labor of love. This this 566 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: documentary if you've seen it, uh, you know, Zack benn 567 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: is like super excited about all this stuff. So the 568 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: old Alama Gordo landfill in New Mexico has three hundred 569 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: it's three hundred acres and then a hundred cells, which 570 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: are these uh his holes, But they're just these big square, 571 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: deep pits where you you know, if you listen to 572 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: Our Landfills episode, then you know what goes on there. 573 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: And they just dump stuff in there and cover it up. 574 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: And the legend was that the e T is in 575 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: one of these cells. And these days they chart it 576 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: and it's mapped out so they know what's where generally, 577 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: and if a cop comes and says, hey, there's some 578 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: evidence from four years ago, they could say, oh, well 579 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: that's going to be in this cell because it was 580 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: from this area of town where it was picked up 581 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: and we buried it here. Back then, they didn't have 582 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: anything like that. No, it was like they just dug 583 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: a hole, put garbage in it, covered it up, and 584 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: went home. According to a guy named Joe Lee Wandowski 585 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: and Mike Burns lucked out that a guy named Joe 586 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: Leewandowski worked at the Alama Gordo um City waste department 587 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: because he is basically the institutional memory of Alama Gordo's 588 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: waste and he worked at the dump for so long 589 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: that he had a pretty good chance of remembering what 590 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: where the stuff was put. Um. But he was kind 591 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: of like, no, we don't, we didn't document it. I 592 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: have no idea, Leave me alone. And apparently Mike Burns 593 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: is not the type to just be like, okay, I'll thanks, 594 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: didn't mean to bother you. He'll keep pestering you until 595 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: you do what he wants from what I under stand, um. 596 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: And so he finally got Joelie Wandowski on board, and 597 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: in just an astounding turn of good luck, Jolie Wandowski's 598 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: wife had made a scrap book of Joe's time working 599 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: for Alama Gordo's UM waste department that included pictures of 600 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: the dump from around this time. So they were able 601 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: to narrow down these hundred cells over three acres to 602 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: two to just to which narrowed the search enough that 603 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: they could actually start taking samples to try to Yeah, 604 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: that was a very big breakthrough. And if you watch 605 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: this documentary when they're when they're taking these samples and 606 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: they come across like newspaper clippings from that year and 607 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: that month where these cartridges were supposedly buried. It's really exciting, 608 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: it is, I gotta admit, it's like, oh my gosh. 609 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: Like they it's like finding buried treasure. So they narrowed 610 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: it down. Uh, all of these people showed up, um 611 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: fans the what's his name, Ernest Ernest Klein who wrote 612 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: the book Ready Player one, He showed up in his 613 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: uh Back to the Future DeLorean and Uh, it was 614 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: a very big deal. They Howard uh Warshaw came in 615 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: and he was there and people were just like embracing 616 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: this guy instead of like it's not like he showed 617 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: up and people are like, there is He's like this beloved, 618 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: cherished dude. And I get the sense that this was 619 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: a very big deal for his closure. Um, which is 620 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: interesting because burying something is usually the closure. In this case, 621 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: digging it up was the closure. And they did find 622 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: uh game cartridges, which it makes you wonder like how 623 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: this how they got there, how the rumor got started 624 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: to begin with. Well, then the fact that there is 625 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: some truth to it. Yeah, they feel like it definitely 626 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: confirms the urban legend, Like Atari definitely did cover up. 627 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: They did dump these these cartridges, but it wasn't just 628 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: et cartridges, and it wasn't like the millions that they 629 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: supposedly dumped, but they probably buried some elsewhere in either 630 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: California or Texas or both. But it confirmed that, yes, 631 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: this actually did happen. The urban legend was real, and 632 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: at the very least, it gave Howard Scott Warshaw that 633 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: closure year he got to see, you know, thirty something 634 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: years on UM people were still vibing out on his creation, 635 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: although in ways he could not have possibly predicted when 636 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: he was spending that five weeks programming this game. Yeah, 637 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: he said he was full of gratitude. That's really cool. 638 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: That's a very cool way to go through life, my friends. 639 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: So let's oh man, you know, if you can remember 640 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: to have gratitude, it truly does make you happy. It's insane. 641 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: It's just remembering to be grateful is the trick. So 642 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,720 Speaker 1: they ended up a lot of these one on eBay, 643 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: UM auctioned off. I think they sold about a hundred 644 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth of these things that went to the 645 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: city of Elama Gordo. Of course, they owned him. It's 646 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: not like they just gave him out to everyone that 647 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: was there. They should have they should have given everyone 648 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: one copy. I think some of the like Mike Burns 649 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: and some of his crew, got some in. Alma Gordo 650 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: kept some, but I think the ones that were auctioned 651 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: were auctioned by Alma Gordo to go to a fund 652 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: of museum. I would love a copy assigned cartridge, Warshaw. 653 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: I mean, the most I think one went for was bucks, 654 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: so we don't want it that bad. But no, then 655 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: I'm saying like that's the most, that's the highest any 656 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: of them went for. So you could probably give them 657 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: for a couple hundred bucks if you tried. I wonder 658 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: if he listens to the show. I hope so you 659 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: never know, I hope so. I hope we cleared it 660 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: up for your Warshaw, your legend, sir. Yes, hats off 661 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: to send me assigned cartridge. Send to Josh needs one 662 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: and thank you, buddy. Um you got anything else? No, 663 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: it did. E T was not the worst game. They were. 664 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: There were games that were so bad that you don't 665 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: they were just in the dustbin of history. They were 666 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: so bad, like Sorcerer, like you said, Manga is apparently 667 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: pretty bad. Yeah, they were terrible, like all these not 668 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: knockoff companies, but you know, ari Atari opened it up 669 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: to where anyone could could design a game that fits. 670 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: And some people say that that was one of the 671 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: reasons why Atari lost market shares, because there's so much 672 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: crud on the shelves and people were tired of buying 673 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: Creddy games for bucks, and that they just oversaturated the 674 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: market themselves. But they oversaturated with terrible stuff, oversetched well 675 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: at any rate, that's e t the game. Not the 676 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: worst video game of all time, but a heck of 677 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: a story, I'll tell you what good one and hopefully 678 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: gave you a little bit of nostalgia this holiday season. Yeah, 679 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: feel that warm tingling. It's either a bladder infection or nostalgia. Uh, 680 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: let's see, since I said bladder infection, everybody, it's time 681 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: for listener man. Uh, this is a about bird poop. Hey, guys, 682 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: listen to the Olive Oil podcast and loved it very much. 683 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: Living in Italy, I use it every day. That's my 684 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: wonderful complexion and youthful looks. I want to tell you 685 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: about a problem though, that we haven't rome every year 686 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: and directly caused by olives. Every winter, the city center 687 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: is home to millions of migrating starlings who spend their 688 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: days out of the local countryside, eating olives and having 689 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: a great time. In the evening, they come back to 690 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: our warmer city center and sleep in the city center 691 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: trees for the night. Great news for bird watchers, but 692 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: bad news if you like to avoid being pooed on. 693 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: The city gets covered in the stuff. And he sent 694 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: me a video and of these cars parked on the 695 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: street and it's literally looks like it was painted with 696 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: bird poop, completely solid every square inch. That's gotta be 697 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: bad for the paint. And yeah, it's really bad. H 698 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: He said, what what has this got to do with 699 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: olive oil? While the olive stones may not come out 700 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: of the starling birds bottoms, but the olive oil infuse 701 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: greasy pood does, and it makes driving along the roads 702 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: almost some possible. I've fallen off my scooter twice in 703 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: the past few years. Oh my god because of this, 704 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: So I guess it's it's slippery oily poop. Oh my god. 705 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: And that is from James in Room. Wow. Thanks James. 706 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: That emails kind of petered out at the end there. Yeah, 707 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: I was expecting a big finish, just oily poop. All right, Well, 708 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: thanks regardless, and stay stay safe on your scooter there, James, 709 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: he said, people use umbrellas and hats off to you 710 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 1: living in Rome. Have you been around? Sure? When I went, 711 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: I was like I could live here. Pretty great, I 712 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: told Jimmie. She's like, maybe it's lovely city. It really 713 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: is old world charm cats. What's what else? Wine food, 714 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: beautiful people and seeing men and women at every turn 715 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: that looked like runway models and they were just regular 716 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: newspaper boys. Well, the fact that they do like a 717 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: little twirl every once in war as they were walking 718 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,439 Speaker 1: really kind of sold it too. Yeah, and go challab bed. Wow, 719 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: let's turn out weird. Um. If you want to get 720 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: in touch with us, you can go on to stuff 721 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: you should know dot com and hit us up through 722 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: our social links. You can go to the Josh Clarkway 723 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: dot com, or you can just send us a good 724 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: old fashioned email to stuff podcast how stuff Works dot 725 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 726 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com